The Mind Of A Covert Narcissist | What To Look For
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- Опубликовано: 6 июн 2024
- Do you know the signs of a covert narcissist? They can actually differ from overt narcissism which may leave people confused as to if they are in a relationship with a narcissist at all.
In this video, I am going to dive into the 8 traits of a covert narcissist and what to keep an eye out for so you know if you are dealing with one.
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This video was created by Barbara Heffernan, LCSW for educational purposes only. These videos are not diagnostic and provide no individual consultation. Consumption of these materials is for your own education and any medical, psychological, or professional care decisions should be made between you and your primary care doctor or another provider that you are engaged with. Barbara Heffernan is not available for individual consultation via RUclips, social media, or email, and provides services only in the manner mentioned above.
Edited by Video Editing Experts
#covertnarcissism #narcissim #healing
☀️☀️CHAPTERS☀️☀️
0:00 Intro
1:03 Covert vs Regular
3:23 Sign #1
3:55 Sign #2
6:26 Sign #3
8:12 Sign #4
10:57 Sign #5
12:40 Sign #6
13:55 Sign #7
15:45 Sign #8
17:34 Conclusion
When the covert narcissist gets caught cheating on you, they'll never be able to trust you again.
lol. yes, funny if it wasn't so true and so painful...
@@BarbaraHeffernanexactly what happened to me. Obsessed with the idea of me cheating whilst the whole time engineering situations to enable her cheating on me. Wow.
@@TruckerBLWthey accuse u of what they do. They tell on themselves all the time. Once they accuse u, that tells u they did something. It's a guilty conscience. They go and do it then accuse u in hopes u actually did so they don't have to feel bad or shameful.
well said.
@@TruckerBLWyea!! They project so what they say others do is what they do!!!!
I hate the annoying meaningless competitive behavior.
Agreed
Even a simple conversation becomes a competition of better word choices. Divan becomes couch. Next time I use Couch, he corrects me with divan.
It’s an ongoing competition to prove he’s smarter. It is exhausting.
Usually we never get anywhere near the point of why we’re discussing ‘one of the thing we sit on’ located in our OMG Front room? Living room? Parlor? 🤦♀️
@@TallKulWmn1
I have noticed that if I say a bad word (those that comes first to saying "excuse my French") a narcissist will shame me immediately (they probably use those words and spill them like a fountain ⛲ but they can while you can't).
That's a great red flag for me.
It's just an example; they will shame you for literally anything.
Yes... My ex always had to remind me that she made more per hour than I did, but i always brought home more... Every paycheck...I stopped explaining to her that I am on Salary not hourly after a while.... One time (toward the end when I had had enough) I just gave her a tiny little golf clap when she said it, and said, "congratulations." I WANTED to add in badly... "so do you need help with your car payment again?"... But, I refrained.
Me too!
It is truly disturbing how charming and humble they seem at first. They really sell it. And when your an empathic person you don’t expect someone to not be genuine. At 45 and after many unfortunate encounters with Narcissists I can see them sooner now, but still get fooled at first. It’s crazy.
I hate fake people as an NPD. fI identify them miles away and only get near to see if I can find sometihing human in them. It's a mistake.
i really get how you feel in this one. crazy we still get fooled. such a blindspot. that takes massive amount of work to work on in order to make it just a bit smaller. and then sometimes I still wonder; maybe I am the narcisisst; why would then each of them give me the feeling I am not worthy?
I've learned that it's not us, because we actually ask ourselves, could it be me that is the narcissist. When the true narcissist would never in a million years consider, that they're the wolf in sheep's clothing.
They want to be liked/accepted by impressing
They have a deep seated desire to be safe and looked after and they want to be in control when things seem to be working out.
But they are lacking maturity, real understanding/ compation and are not being able to keep up or finishing things or continue sustaining good causes unless they are on a vengeance spree
And forgiveness is not their capacity at all.
Punishment and vengeance is
And self-catering/ centering is
Also being conartists as well and they can't hide it for too long
They also like speaking ill behind everybody's back! Absolutely everybody's no exception!!! And pulling victims card all the time but never admitting who they victimised
And yes the toucher has to be only one to one so no witnesses and if they are any they will make a scene that the victim is victimising them or smudge it somehow..with professional help like Barbara's here some of them can get better and manage to have meaningful and somewhat happy relationships as many people are kind and compationate and will be willing to understand,love and support so it's not that bad.
Hopefully!!!
The lack of true empathy is a dead giveaway. How they behave when you're sick or vulnerable 🤮
I am/was a covert narcissist from a highly traumatised family. Its taken me over thirteen years of therapy and group work to first see and understand my own narcissism and then begin to heal the underlying trama. I can now see the how narcissistic behaviour patterns can be passed down generations as an extreme self defensive mechanisms in unsafe family environments. Without question, do not stay in any personal or professional relationship that is doing you harm. Sometimes it means cutting ties, at others setting pretty extreme boundaries (eg. minimal contact). But for those of us that as children needed to employ narcissist behaviour patterns to survive unsafe and toxic environments, healing is a real possibility with the right support and therapy.
Congratulations on all of the work you’ve done. Out of curiosity, was there an event that finally made you see that you had these behaviors? Getting a narcissist to see it is notoriously difficult and most won’t get treatment since they don’t think anything is wrong.
You will always have to stay in therapy I'm glad you have recognized it but you know it can't be cured. You can't say was a narcissist. You will always be one. Therapy is for life.
That is AMAZING!! Good for you!!! That takes so much strength and self-discipline and introspection for you to recognize and overcome that, and for that you are such a strong and remarkable person. I want you to know that it means you are an especially good person for the fact that you were able to recognize that and be so honest with yourself and others and work through it. Not many people have the strength that you have so congrats! Blessings to you
@@skibunny2257what a foolish statement. Psychology is a pseudo science … it can be beneficial but it has its limits. Look into the marketing of madness.
@@skibunny2257 citation needed. I refuse to believe this cannot be cured. Don't take the behavior of people who refuse to better themselves as proof people who are trying to better cannot succeed.
A covert narcissist has a great amount of inner rage. If they get triggered they will scream and yell. Even though they are normally very quiet in a calculated kind of way.
Truth... they appear sweet insecure mouse like.. then wham.. you realize they are self-serving insecure angry vampires.. and yes, they give back handed compliments..
The behavior will reveal itself in hindsight. Narcissists are not sincerely curious to challenge their own established beliefs.
Therefore if they yell, they are AUTOMATICALLY a narcissist right ? I must be one just for suggesting they might not be am I right ?
@@anndillard8681 WHO is "they" ?
@@imjoeimjoe narcissists.. of course.
Covert narcissists make you question your own reality. You feel like you are betrayed after realizing all the subtle abuse 😢
Absolutely. Wishing you health and healing.
Right on. So much truth in just a few words. I feel your pain. Best wishes.
You are being betrayed.
If a person doesn't love themselves, how can they love you ?
They can't do one without the other. If a person can't really care about themselves, they can't care for you either.
Exactly! If we can’t go “no contact” Keep good notes on any interaction w/ narcs. They are devious, sneaky, liars & manipulative while pretending to love U, or care, and they are all angels in their own eyes. They live to suck u in, so they can continue their attacks.
The lying about you behind your back to sabotage you is so accurate. It was the biggest sign to me.
I overheard some of that yesterday. My girlfriend recently cracked her pelvis. Requiring around the clock support. I work from home, and trying to do me a favor, is looking at hiring dog walkers without asking me whether that service is what would make the biggest difference, and enable me to get my work done while I work from home. Walking the dog for 10 or 15 minutes, gives me an opportunity to stretch my legs. She found somebody who walked the dog a few times and then asked her why I “didn’t get off my ass and support her more?!?” For some reason she shared that comment with me, and my thought was, “how did he get that impression?” I’m being attentive all day long, moving her around the apartment keeping her fed helping her change her clothes to the point where I have to work from 10 PM to 3 AM to get my work done every day, and some random guy is saying that I need to get off my ass and do more?? Grrr
Great job explaining this topic. Married to one for 23 yrs with 3 kids. She destroyed everyone in her path. Divorced now for 6 yrs and she is still a problem. Kids and I have nothing to do with her but her manipulation knows no bounds. She is a PhD Marriage & Family Counselor and a College Professor. Dangerous!
My narc ex is with a psychologist now- who happens to sound like a covert narc. Go figure!
Best of luck, my friend!!
They seem to find a way to get in positions to continue to harm people or relish in their pain .. so incredible scary and sad. 😢
I’m glad you are free.
Most of them are in professions like that I know a psychiatrist that is possibly a narcissist and she diagnosed me with scizophective disorder cause that’s what she specializes in and I found out from reviews that she gave someone a bs diagnosis and turns out the lady had a tumor. lol! Lots of people in high power or authority figures are narcissistic
@@CynthiaAvaI was friends with someone whom I almost started falling for but then I realized something was off. She is an addiction counselor and spending some time with her I realized she is a complete covert narc.
They’re the type of person to start a fight and run away from it
yes
Or lashes out
Absolutely. They like to start stuff then play the victim when they get in trouble. "Everyone is picking on me... I did nothing wrong." All the while threatening to call the police...
@@kenhart8771I lash out....yes, I'm guilty...but it's because of their insanity for lack of boundaries, gas lighting, blame shifting, Contradictions, hypocrisies and guilt trips. I was losing my mind. I can't maintain normal emotional control while being in the of insanity. It's nuts !!!!
@@clintonnagy1662But they want you to lash out. So they can point the finger at you and make accusations at you. You can't be around these people... If you think you might last out. You always need total emotional control. They want you to fall apart and explode so everyone can see your the problem, when really your the victim of their bullshit.
I was married to a covert narcissist for 30 years, then attracted boyfriend after boyfriend with the same traits. Finally, I stopped looking at them and started watching out for how they make me feel. If someone causes me to second-guess myself, I'm out. If they have a different persona in private, I'm out. Thank you for this. Spot on!
I've atyracted them all my life as well. I still do, although divorced 40 years & havent dated on 20. Narcs actually seek out people like you & me - giving, empathetic, kind, soft spoken, harwoeking, etc.
@@annemccarron2281 damn are you in your 70s?
I married a covert narcissistic female 28 years before social media and internet Information Age she divorced me fast forward 28 years later to 2023 block and delete rinse and repeat Very miserable people.
Thankfully she divorced me still dwelling in Wilderness then with a contentious NPD female.
@@annemccarron2281 lise leblanc termed it as PHIL- protector hero integrity i forgot the L maybe loving
My mom is a covert narcissist. Her love of animals is very performative. From the outside she appears to take great care of her pets but in reality she’s extremely neglectful and yells at them constantly. Which is exactly how she treated me. Everyone thought I was well cared for but I was extremely neglected and constantly yelled out. And of course everything was my fault as a child just as she blames her pets for their bad behaviors instead of training them or recognizing their needs.
So hard for you to watch this...animals , how sick. They are helpless beings who just want your affection.
My mother left our little dachshunds in an above ground pool that was empty. It was sand on the bottom. Put them in there I. Florida in the summer with no water to drink. They died. I was 6 years old. She also let my cat out in a storm. The cat never came back. My best friend from high school new there was something wrong with my mother
I used to say my mom loved her dogs better than us but she never put the leg work into training them. She loved that the dogs gave her undying affection. Yet she screams at them when they don’t obey her and show normal dog behavior (like humping each other and sniffing private parts).
She told me time and again as a teen that I was a lovely, obedient child until I turned 12 and “got a mind of my own.” 😅
Feel the same exact way!! Same exact situation
yup...ive seen same...narc wants 2 only punish but not spend the time 2 properly train...stupid NARC IS clueless about how any 1 ELSE feels...including their more vulnerable victims/innocent little pet sweethearts deserve our all...they don't deserve punishment they deserve attention & training with patience...they R totally DEPENDANT on us and give us unconditional LOVE.
The whole gossipping about everyone wearing down one's faith in humanity definitely happened to me. My narcissistic mother would always give me high praises in public for minor things, yet in private treat me as a friendless, underachieving loser. In addition, whenever she'd talk behind one of her friends' backs, I just knew that this was how she talked about me to others.
I ended up thinking all women were like this and it led to a genuinely sexist streak in me that I've been eager to correct. The first step involved... just talking to other women and realising the vast majority are sane. Simple, but necessary lol
The vast majority are not sane, sorry
@@dean8705it’s probably more telling of something with you, that you attract insane women over and over. That’s that pattern that requires work. Keeping that mindset won’t help you at all you will just settle for insanity bc you think “they’re all that way”. That is a you problem.
@@jaynej2884 I actually have a woman that's amazing but OK lol
Oh gosh it’s the fake empathy for me. You can really feel it when someone is pretending to care and it’s so unsettling.
Yes, it really messes with your psyche
I know right it gives me the chills and creeps me out whenever I realize somebody is faking it
Yeah I met this guy at a party and he was creepily interested in “getting to know me” cause I suggested that I recently left a relationship or something so they wanted to “counsel me”, ofc they didn’t say any of these things but just to explain their attitude. I felt weird that they were pushing on a soft spot even though they were trying to “help me”. Saw the same person a year later and they didn’t even remember who I was at all lol and it all hit me then
@@yoeyyoey8937That man just wanted to know your "psychological passcodes" as Dr. Ramani calls it..aka your vulnerable points so that they know how to trigger and manipulate you. You dodged a bullet.
Yes! We call a mate's covert narc ex-wife "St ' _ _ _ _ ' of the oppressed" 😅
OMG. The pet-lover trait being a running theme w/certain narcissist types was eye opening for me. EX. Someone who "takes" in animals, preaches about their selfless-ness, knows "everything" about veterinarian-work (b/c a family member worked at a vet 🤷♀) YET behind closed doors allow the "saved" pets to live in pain w/rotting teeth, potty in the house, and complain about them.
Apparently, I needed to vent. Thanks lol
Can confirm. The one I married was a regular Doctor Doolitttle, and she couldn't even be bothered to care for them, once they weren't shiny and new anymore.
I can confirm as well!!!!! I noticed this with my first narc relationship, and my second narc relationship. When I saw the parallels, my mind was BLOWN!!
A lot of people with animals who pull the dogs....or say they have 20 years experience or they say they are dog trainers, than I believe I know enough. First both things: nobody need to pull a rope when it's around the dog and the dog and dogs don't need a trainer, but people do! The manner how those people react even when you are very friendly and they get not nice AND you FEEL a wall, then they are absolutely not nice to the dogs, only you need to watch...that mean: to THINK for what you look at that mean: to ask questions for yourself..than you know they not treat the dogs right and if they pull hard or kick or scream to the dogs when they are outside, than those people are kind of crazy not countious, of where they are or they just don't care so in the house is maybe the all day cruel, terrible for the dogs because the people want their way immidiately and have no love at all.They not look at what the dogs need and to give that to the dogs.
Yes, they are animal experts while they use electric dog collars.
My ex never liked the dog we had, I took her when I left after 27 years
It’s WAY more than 10% of the population. In my life of dealing with one and divorcing that same one, I have three of five friends who have done the same because of the same! One friend is in her third divorce from one. That’s a very high percentage
I do understand there is a data collection difference between official diagnosis and having the characteristics. Bottom line: Narcs do not get appropriate help, nor a formal diagnosis.
Thank you for your videos. With an Overt Narcissist first he may make promises to change then when that does not work, aggression, and physical violence. He will try to get you back under his control by any means necessary. You are his property no matter how many times he has cheated and left you. I had to leave the state making it more difficult for him to have access to me. This narc traveled to where I was living 5 states away and tried to drag me back cave man style. I have read that the lesser narcissist has poor cognitive function and low impulse control. Some are even capable of rape when they suffer a narcissistic injury. While I believe all narcissist can lash out violently when enraged and suffering from a narcissistic injury it is even more so with the lesser. My experience with this narcissist was even if we separated and he had moved on with a new supply source he would still come around to make sure I was not seeing anyone. If I happened to start dating he became violent even when he was engaged with someone new. Most narcissist when they are love bombing a new supply source will not want the one they discarded in the picture at least in the beginning of his new relationship. If they are engaged with a new supply source and still Hoovering you for fuel they have a sadistic streak. This narcissist cheated throughout the entire marriage. He engaged in triangulation with his first wife. She was a constant in our marriage until her suicide. The Covert Narcissist may try to come back after they have been involved in a few relationships which did not work out. When they try to come back they are low on supply and suffering from depression because of a loss of narcissistic supply. They love to tell you about the relationships they have been in and now they are smearing the person they left you for. They may tell you the person they have been in a relationship with has been abusing them. The Covert may apologize for all his past transgressions and the way he discarded you. He will have an excuse as to why he was so abusive and cruel at the end. It can play with your mind wondering if he is truly sorry. He can even have tears. You have to remember the tears are for himself. He is down and out with no available supply source. You must remember how he was at the end when he discarded you and the mask came completely off. He will seem desperate to keep you around as the Hoover takes place. And he is desperate for narcissistic supply. This is a midrange narcissist I’m talking about here and although very capable of violence he needs to put on a good show to convince you he really is a good person. This narcissist really does believe he is a good person and needs others to see him as such. If you see through this narcissist and don’t buy his story he may leave you alone. He will slink away like the snake that he is in search of new supply sources. Narcissist don’t like to waste their energy and when he sees you are not buying into it he is forced to search out new supply sources. I say forced because it is life or death to him to keep the false construct in place. In order to keep the false self in place he needs narcissistic supply. He needs the admiration of others or he ceases to exist. When you no longer buy the lie he will move on. Covert Narcissist do not display the open grandiosity of the Overt. While the Overt seems full of confidence the Covert lacks self esteem. The Covert will use a lot of pity plays working on your sympathetic nature. He wants you to feel sorry for him. The Covert is a coward. In any case Overt or Covert they suffer a narcissistic injury when they are rejected by an ex. They think they own you for life. In both cases I left the state when my marriages ended:) Additionally there is no way you can be too sure that your spouse isn’t cheating behind your back. The only way you can be sure if your spouse is cheating on you or not is “TO FIND OUT“. Get to find out about a cheating spouse with evidence to prove it by spying their mobile and thereafter gaining access to all the things they might have been hiding away from you. If you need to find out about a cheating spouse; send a request to: Metaspyhub@gmail. com
There was NO WAY my ex would have 'come clean' about his infidelity...I had to dig and snoop like a creep to confirm what I already knew to be true. Even after finding evidence, he still found a way to justify 20 years of cheating...disgusting behavior
Amazing. This is so well thought out. I’m sorry you had to experience all or some of that. Thank you for writing all of this. I have learned and benefited from it. Bless your soul.
Describing the ‘Covert Narcissist’ as a “Snake in the Grass” is an understatement!!!
That's because they are 😈
They are Reptiles
More like a crocodile 🐊
More like a fluke worm that latches on to ur lover and sucks the life out of u.
More like a fluke worm that latches on to ur lover and sucks the life out of u.
They refuse to believe They do ANYTHING wrong YES it’s drained me as human being. I lost my self 😭
My mother down to a tee!
I went no contact with her after her last outburst / attack early July!
It was really difficult at first but then it gets easier!
I’ve seen her twice (at funerals she didn’t expect me to attend) there was no communication!
I kept my head held high and I felt very proud of myself.
She is who she is and I now understand that her ‘demons’ are not my priority or problem!
You deserve peace as an individual family isn’t worth spending this limited existence in agony
@@UlfhednarAxe thank you ☺️
Right on, I went No Contact w/my parents the summer before last. 👏
I have been wrestling with the fact that I had to cut ties from my brother, who is also a covert narcissist. I can’t imagine cutting ties with a mother. You must be very strong. I was raised by a narcissist, grandmother, and then she had a stroke and her personality completely changed, so that was interesting, but to cut ties with family has been difficult. Takes a lot of strength but the peace is next level so it makes it worth it.
For me, the covert narcissist comes across as a people pleaser. They like to be in the spotlight to get the validation that they crave for, as other narcissists but at the same time, they pretend to be humble, simple, generous, over giving. The covert narcissist will take time to build a relationship/friendship with you. During this period, they will show their admiration and their devotion by helping you with everything that is you need. They will try to convince you that you are soulmates and that they understand you deeply. At the same time, you will see them being overly altruistic, maybe helping society by engaging in charities, activism. They feed the poor, take care of the homeless. All this makes you think how lucky you are for having met such a beautiful soul. You want to be by their side for ever. However, soon you notice how much they enjoy being invited in galas to talk about their achievements. But they don’t admit that. They still play the humble guy who doesn’t want all this. Who is beyond money, beyond fame and recognition, who wants to share the floor with other people. But their acts don’t match their words. You come to realise that this selfless soul is actually doing whatever it takes to be in the centre of attention. When you do something together be it at work or at home, they want to control everything about it. They just exerce their control in a more polite and implicit way, making you believe that your voice was heard whereas in reality you did what they wanted you to do. Covert narcissists have a smooth way of leading you on. They don’t shout, they don’t give orders. They are master actors. They convince you that you are together in this. What makes them a narcissist is that when the time comes for them to use you in order to draw certain benefits, they will do it without a second thought and you are not going to believe in your eyes. And when you stand up for yourself and raise your voice against them calling them for their phony identity, then you will see their rage for the first time and the mask will fall. Covert narcissists manipulate less with rage/exhibiting superiority and more with people pleasing behaviour/playing the eternal victim. They are not aggressive as overt narcissists. They are more cunning. What they both have in common is self-centered ness and lack of empathy. In the case of coverts, it will take you longer to find out.They knew what they wanted to get out of you from the beginning. They created a whole theatre play to fool you about who they are and their true motives. You will trust them with all your heart but when the time comes for them to prove their loyalty by choosing your bond over their personal gain, they will choose the latter with no remorse, without even taking any responsibility. Unlike the overt narcissist, they will have an eloquent excuse for doing so, rationalizing why they had to f@ck you over. They will pretend to be sorry about it because this is something that matches the image of modesty that they want to project but in reality they are not sorry at all. You will see them partying with your own money when they said they didn’t have enough to pay you back. You will see them being unfair and untrustworthy to other people as well. When the mask of the victim will fall, you will see the cruel smile of a perpetrator who managed to get what they want without deserving it. If you decide to unmask them run for your life. Additionally, The unwavering support and dedication demonstrated by Metaspyhub@gmail. com have been pivotal in my journey to uncover the painful truth surrounding my partner's infidelity. From the moment I first reached out to them, their professionalism and unwavering commitment to assisting me in finding the answers I desperately sought were readily apparent and highly commendable. Through their swift action and meticulous investigation, They presented me with compelling evidence that left no room for doubt. Armed with this newfound knowledge, I confronted my cheating partner with newfound courage, reclaiming my self-worth and paving the way for a future filled with renewed hope. Throughout this emotionally challenging process, Metaspyhub's expertise and unwavering support served as a constant source of strength, offering invaluable guidance and empathetic understanding when I needed it the most. I am profoundly grateful for their unwavering assistance, as it has empowered me to move forward with unwavering determination and newfound resilience.
And you remind me also of something : they people please too much and it's lacking substance. Like they try to please you but they don't have personality so it's a bit off at first. You feel uneasy.
A covert narcissist only be a people pleaser to gain something they want,otherwise they're hyper-jealous of other people and envious in a bitter way like hell.
@@jacobnelson2480 I've seen this 'advert' on other narcissist vids.
It’s a spam bot
Gross that you'd turn such a serious topic into an ad.
I was married to a covert narc for 14 years. It took me 13 to figure out. He did so much more mental damage than my previous husband who is a regular narcissist. 28 years spent with these crazy people. Then I figure out my mom is one too. I guess she set me up to think the craziness was normal. I’m running away from anyone with these traits.
I was programmed by mom. At thirty three years with husband who is covert, I’m very angry. God really supports me, since I feel like garbage. And I feel tricked.
Ditto…. Different players, but same game…. I’ve attracted narcs my entire life, & it took me a long time to figure out.
It's a horrible almost loss of the final part of your innocence when you realise their level of existence is a thing, it crushed me at the time and I took it out on the messenger, this is not an uncommon response and has happened to me since until I learned to point the victim in the right direction but not lay the whole situation on the table. Outside of the usual porous boundaries thing children of Coverts develop work arounds as a survival strategy and a Narcissist finds these delicious. I would say to all children of Coverts, look for these work arounds, your almost instinct to be agreeable may be the signal these people latch on to. Say No, don't explain yourself and validate your feelings and expressions of them, if they are being petty and tedious show it, don't slap on a fake smile and massage the bottomless pit of an ego.
My experience too. Now I’m my seventh decade I’m happy to be rid of theses toxic people. I’m very distrustful of friendships too since being treated badly and accepting it.
I was with my X for 25yrs before I finally had enough. When I asked him to leave he told our sons, “Your mum deserves someone better than me!!” I thought I had married someone like my dad, because that was what my mum led us to believe, but in actual fact I had married someone just like her. When I eventually decided to sell the family home, due to burgeoning debt, I asked mum if she wanted me to move closer to her and my dad but she said to move where I wanted to. I settled on moving to the far north of Scotland as I could afford to buy a house outright up there. She then turned to my younger brother and complained that I wasn’t moving close to her. So he then challenged me on my decision and I told him she didn’t want me there. When he relayed this to her she denied having ever said that!! I therefore changed my plans and have regretted it ever since. My dad passed away 6months later and I have felt shackled to her ever since. If I ask my brothers for help I just get crickets. I wish I could move away but the money I had from the sale of my home has long since gone on rent. She’s 90 this year and I know I’d be racked with guilt if I move now and something were to happen to her.
I dated someone I believe was a covert narcissist. Had all the traits. Silent treatment, deflection, passive aggressive behavior, little insults, no empathy. I only discovered this by watching videos on narcissism. Everyone else thought he was such a great guy but they didn't see the way he treated me and you are right about their behavior in a setting with other people. He always treated me great in front of others but it was a different story when we got home. He initially presented as quiet and shy and a so called nice guy.....not.
sounds familiar, I've been through the exact same thing.. indescribable
Am in it now
So true
Think we had the same husband. Shy n saintly ouside, mean n nasty, inside
Exactly relate to my story with my bf
God bless you. My Mom demolished me. Hated my success. After six decades of recovery work, I am hitting gold (face the reality - it really did happen. My own mother who was supposed to support and help and teach me, leaving me strong and intact, not feeling beaten down and worthless and hopeless). I had no idea as a child. My precious RUclipsrs have helped a lot!!!
Anytime I would show any happiness, My mom ask me if I was on drugs. Then I would get sad again.
And no I wasn't on anything.
They can't stand when you have any type of success, no person, no friend you ever meet is good enough for them. Everyone has flaws and she looks for them and complains about them.
be strong and happy; you are the best - always remember; my mother was evil ...
My beloved mom was a covert narcissist, and I didn't even realize it until she was in her last years and I was taking care of her. She was constantly triangulating--she would try to come between my husband and me, my daughters and me, my grandkids and me. She would talk to me about them, and vice versa. If I bought something for myself, she was angry if I didn't be the exact same thing for her--even if she didn't need it. She loved playing the martyr. She tried and tried to get me back into the bashful, insecure child I had been. When I set boundaries, she called every member of her family and told them how lonely, how neglected, how she hadn't had breakfast yet even though it was soooo late (she had), on and on. Very difficult to deal with. She has passed on and I miss her. How I wish, though, that I had understood her psychological issues when I was much younger.
Nope not NPD
My dear mom turned 70 this year and I've been living abroad since 4 years now and I realized lately she suffers from Covert narcissistic personality disorder. I too wish I had learned even thou I knew something was wrong. I basically went grey rocking before realising it was a thing, I actually felt it was what I needed. When I discovered it I felt reborn and like I could be happy again but as soon as I restarted sharing my stuff in a couple of occasions I had nightmares and bad stuff happening to me. It's shocking how even from distance, they can cause this.
Everybody loves my dad...soooo sweet, generous and kind. Always somehow suffers misfortune! People always betray him. But no one ever puts it together. My father is a covert narc. No one would ever ever believe me. He has done an excellent job of being the victim and i am a horrible person.
That describes my ex husband to a T. His parents think he’s so unfortunate to find all these women that hurt him so bad and leave. Little do they know their son is the abuser and he drives the women away. They wouldn’t believe me if I tried to tell them.
good thing you know!! Good luck in your journey. My father was also admired publicly but severely lacking at home.
Narcs are 0,4% of population. And even than its just a vague concept. So if not even diagnosed, its highly doubtable
Meet my mum and I 😂 same thing
NPD exists on a spectrum. Everyone acts narcissistic once in a while, but They suffer from the disorder All of the time. They can't help it. It's a brain mis-wiring
26 years with a CoNarc wife.
1. Emotionally intense in the beginning and intermittently throughout
2. Extremely needy
3. Entitled to all my time
4. Never expressed regret for wrongs she had done to me
5. Blamed all of her shortcomings on others, mostly me
6. Never tried to improve herself
7. Self-deprecation was always just fishing for compliments
8. Appeared kind but socially awkward in public but insulted everyone she encountered in private
9. Rages accompanied by intense cruelty, insults and alternative accounts of how things happened
10. Everything she did was because someone else (typically me) put her in a situation to have to. This is reversing victim and offender.
I've been out of the relationship since the end of April and I am still trying to remember how events really happened vs how she perceived them. I did everything I could for her and all she did was mock and ridicule me. I wasted so many years blaming myself for failing her when it was not humanly possible to please her. She never wanted to succeed because victimhood required no effort. She just needed me to be responsible for why she never had what she deserved.
I'm sorry you went through so many years with her. I recognize this type of behaviour from my mom growing up, and even became scared that this is who I would be too. The reality is that I became attracted to someone who had these traits, and I did have some myself, and really messed my mind up. I know I have done wrongs in my life and work to fix them and not blame others, but man is it a trip to live with people who don't do that and even try and convince you that you're the one in the wrong constantly. Trusting my own reaity and that I'm not trash has taken a long time and I'm still working on it. Hope you are recovering and finding good people to trust.
@y04a I'm better now after committing to walking away. At some point I'd like to see my kids again and help them understand what happened. As of now, she has them convinced I'm not providing for them and that I abandoned them, so they don't want to see me.
Common tactic: I'm not providing for them but I'm paying all the bills and we still have a joint account.
I abandoned them but she kicked me out and won't let me see them.
Great list, can confirm everything you've written happened in my story as well.
I'm still on the fence about how much of this meticulous and long term undermining and destruction of another person is deliberate or just "instinctive".
@coinspeednews4703
I told my wife during one of our last fights that I knew what she was doing and my only hope was that she didn't realize she was doing it. I'm torn too. I don't want to believe that the person I loved and have been married to for over 2 decades could be that malicious. Yet, everything she's done since I figured her out has been calculated and fits all the models of how I expected her to behave. I'm not so certain anymore. It was always just easier to put it on me than to own anything. It seems second nature to them.
@@thegridrunner9976 There a quite a few fundamental concepts that they just can't comprehend. Things like love, respect, trust, equality (in terms of a relationship). Even though they can mimic these masterfully in the beginning.
Otoh they think in terms of extremes, like allies and enemies, full compliance, etc. And once you deviate from the fantasy they have in their head about you, they treat that as absolute betrayal and you become a bad object, worthy of punishment and eventual destruction.
My ex knew that something was wrong with her, but facing it caused such an intense feeling of shame, that "healing" was not an option.
Instead she chose to destroy everything around her.
Come to think of it, this was a choice.
#5- My mom threatened to call my fiance when I was out of the country on a trip with her, and tell him that I was cheating on him because I had gone to a local hotel bar that my uncle owned and was relaxing by myself in the hotel bar having a drink and getting a break from her. I was 30 years old, and she showed up in the bar making a scene and throwing false accusations out in public, it was crazy. I had to call my fiance and tell him how crazy she was acting, it was horrible. We're married 24 years, went no contact with her 7 years ago. The craziest part is it's only looking back that more and more I see how insane and controlling she was
Walk Away.
My experience being with a covert for 2 years and engaged was a blessing. As awful as it was, It exposed the things I needed to look at in myself. Why I allowed it, why in my gut I knew what was happening but still accepted it.
They prey on a particular type of person. That’s where we come in. A lot of times people get out of these relationships and find out what the hell that was and often overlook the things about themselves that allowed the narcissist make their way into our lives. It’s not that there’s something wrong with us but we are in an unhealthy emotional state to put up with obvious abuse. I was a shell of myself mentally and physically at the end of it. I sucked at setting boundaries, no self esteem, lacking confidence, didn’t love myself, self doubt, and so on.
It’s the hardest thing to admit these things about ourselves. But it’s necessary if you want to attract good in your life. Your have to be honest with yourself.
My advice is to avoid the victim mentality after this. It’s completely understandable and I mean no judgement to how anyone tried to pull themselves up after this. You’re hurt and it’s valid and nobody deserves that.
You deserve better than what was given to you and I hope you find it in yourself first so the right people can come into your life.
This is regarding a romantic relationship that one has choice to be in, not a child with a parent or something where the person is born into it. I couldn’t imagine enduring this for a whole childhood. Another year in it and I might not be here so my heart hurts who deals or dealt with this.
totally agree, I needed to look at myself and be honest.
I grew up w mom being this way and then all of my relationships up to now. I'm only just realizing I was never living for myself. I'm not familiar with myself and my own desires and joy, but I'm learning!!!
I agree with this comment. I know full well, I dislike myself. I have my entire life. I am working on that at the moment ❤
Thank you for that
Exactly! When I told an acquaintance about the narcissistic abuse I had been subjected to, they pretty much blew it off-saying that I was simply dealing with a “high maintenance” person. Most outsiders have no clue about narcissistic abuse. Basically, I no longer share my experiences with anyone and instead focus on distancing myself from the narcissist in my life.
People just don't understand the depths. They never will if it's not happening to them.
@@getllonglegs So true!
Narcissism is epidemic and I know some who are suffering from it, yet when I share videos with them about narcissism they don’t take it seriously. Every person on the planet needs to educate themselves because they are everywhere.
@@beaglerescue5281 It definitely is an epidemic. Not much we can do about them. We can only educate ourselves on how to cope and ideally cut them completely out of our lives, ASAP. And never stop learning about their disorder because they never stop being narcissistic. A ton of self care is always a good idea.
I daresay that, in most cases, "high maintenance" is code for narcissism.
A 'Covert Passive Agressive' does not do their own dirty work. They manipulate 'Others' into doing their dirty work. It is great that a video like this is available to help people.
YES THEY DO.
Yes, I have a CovNarc who is using her 5 yr.old daughter and her new supply psychopath boyfriend to attack me bc I have been supporting the biofather , who lives in a cabin on our farm to get visitation and custody. In her very sick mind, she has upped the anty repeating the same SA allegations , ( did the same exact accusation 4 yrs ago w/other friend of father ) now we are 4 and 5 , against me and my husband stating dad knew and did nothing . This is an extreme measure to pursue serious criminal charges , by her malacious fabrication. This has shown me she will stop at nothing for the power and control and is a dangerous individual capable of anything to keep the upper hand.
That is what my father did, he was the nice guy and made my mother the punisher.
This greatly affected my relationship with my mom, he also made my sister the golden child so I don't have a relationship with her because of lies my father would tell her about me.
He has been dead since 2020. I am 58, and I am still dealing with the mental abuse he put me through.
Been at the receiving end of that. Cut them off.
Put then it is not NPD - Manipulation is not our thing . We are not cunning but we suck as partners.
Wow. My narc husband showed more affection to our cat than he ever expressed to me. I found myself feeling jealous of our sweet kitty! That’s when I realised that I had to get out of that emotional desert of a marriage.
They continue to ask for favors, even after the silent treatment.
They only talk to me, when they need something
This was 100% my mother. This comment in particular hit home: "You don't trust other people because you were raised by a person you couldn't trust." I took a Big 5 personality evaluation and scored zero on trust (part of the Agreeableness facet), which the person administering the eval said was the lowest he had ever seen. His comment, "Betrayal probably doesn't even hurt you anymore. You've come to expect it like the sun rising in the morning." Spot on.
😢
Wow. Expected betrayal.
I scored low on agreeableness too. I won't let these people walk over me. You need to test people to find out if they are narcissist early on rather than finding out months down the line. You can do that by disagreeing politely on something. I do it by choosing something different to drink or eat from them in the pub, cafe or restaurant.
The Smiling No Test : Wait for them to ask you to go somewhere or do something and then you politely decline.
You remain smiling but you don't offer any explanation.
It's very good at making the truth come out.
Don't laugh but don't be mean either. Just keep the conversation going like no, I can't see you Sunday but call me Monday and we'll see, kinda thing.
Usually that's enough to trigger them.
Just make sure you don't say sorry. You're not sorry. You don't offer any reason, it's just a no.
@@lorimiller4301 it's a shame we have to test people by doing this when it's no biggie to go along with them. But when you do they move the goalposts and demand more. I have my own tests such as ordering something completely different from the menu in a pub or restaurant. They hate it when you refuse to mimic them.
Sometimes I feel like I'm living in one of the more totalitarian Eastern European countries before the Iron curtain.came down worried that someone might betray you to the authorities. Because being with a narcissist can feel like being with a government informer at times.
The worst part is there's just so damn many of them out there.
@@sine8811 No.
YES
@@sine8811 That is a loaded question there. I've observed that people tend to see negative traits more in whatever political leaning doesn't align with theirs. It's a human thing. I've seen narcissistic traits in politicians of all persuasions. All the more reason to be careful, just because someone is on the same page politically with you doesn't mean they're not a narc. We tend to see people with whom we agree through rose colored glasses. Kind of like when we fall in love with someone who love-bombs us. Politicians are masters at love-bombing, anything to get your vote.
1 in 6
@@barbarashushack 1-6% apparently, not 1 in 6 people
It seriously took me many years and her leaving and me struggling to finally come across these videos and showing that my ex was 100% a covert narcissist. Their insecurities and seeing her relationship with her mom really made me want to give her the world, but it always felt like an uphill battle and I couldn’t understand why she would cheat and it made me feel like I wasn’t doing enough and wasn’t good enough. She then left me. It’s so hard to get past someone that would say to your face that they love you when it was all just to control you
I’ve watched hundreds of hours of videos on narcissism and this is one of the best ever on covert narcs. Thank so much!!
Thank you for letting me know! I appreciate that. As usual, I am pleased it was helpful but sad it is needed :(!
Hearing the signs of a covert narcissist is a lightbulb moment!
I had to quit a job I loved because of a bad supervisor who I now realise is a covert narcissist. She has so many of the traits listed here. Lack of empathy, dishonest, undermining, falsely self-deprecating and humble (but has an enormous underlying ego), micromanaging and so on. It was extremely stressful and started to negativity impact my health. I’m glad I got out of that toxic environment. My advice to anyone who encounters a covert narcissist is to run! You can’t win with people like that. They aren’t normal and it’s not worth your mental health.
Yes. Thank you for sharing as it will be helpful for others!
I see you had my former boss. She presented as charming and physically fragile. She was incredibly impressed with my journalism accomplishments and natural ability to write; used that as the basis for hiring me, then spent the next three months telling me I didn't understand how to turn an interview into an article and that my writing was sub-par. She would give me false deadlines further out than the real ones, then tear me down for missing the publication date. She'd give me half an hour to do two weeks of work, then tell me I should have started earlier.
Anything that she was responsible for that didn't work out became my fault when she had to account for it with the CEO. She started demanding that I make a list every day to show her what I had actually done with my work hours. Mind you, I worked three hours a day, three days a week. That stupid list took up 1/6 of my productive time, and had the added benefit of making me feel like an idiot because the list never matched what she claimed she wanted me to work on (despite it being an account of what I had accomplished from the list she gave me when I arrived).
This was a shared job, and I was constantly being unfavorably compared to the person who worked on my off days. We met years later and discovered our boss had been doing the same things to each of us. MWF I was garbage and she was amazing; TTh she was garbage and I walked on water!
At the same time, this boss was bringing me ice cream after her lunch breaks, inquiring after my family's health, and asking me to tiptoe around a completely darkened office and take on extra duties because she had a migraine.
When my seven year-old shattered her jaw in a bike accident and was in the hospital for six days, I took the week off. My boss accused me of not taking my job seriously.
At the end of three months, I had a complete emotional breakdown and full-blown fibromyalgia -- and no job. I had excelled at every other job I'd had for 30 years, but this woman fired me for incompetence. I still believe it was because I had a friend in the CEO's office and had broken down to the point of sharing some stories about the monster I worked for. My friend never really believed me, having only seen the sweet side of the woman, but I know my boss felt I was endangering her carefully cultivated persona.
@@SouthCountyGal This boss sounds like Miranda Priestly from "The Devil wears Prada."..- and even you two girls working as her assistents going crazy trying to please her - just like the film/ book...
I had to quit after 17 career I loved, but my manager was a nightmare to work for. Same as what you went through and worse!!! I too got really sick! Just leave if you meet one!
@@SouthCountyGal Covert Narc of the 1st degree. Used you to sharpen her sadistic skills. Glad you got out
and you just prolonged your life for an extra 20 years. You win.
Wow! My mom! I grew up with the idea that other people are never to be trusted. I don't expect anything from anyone so I don't get disappointed. She did a real good job making us kids think it was always our dad. After he passed a few years ago, my sister and I realized we couldn't stand to be around our mom and didn't understand why. We did some thinking and talking, then I came across some information on this subject and had to share it with my sister. It blew our minds that we made it to middle age before finally understanding what was actually going on, that it was our mom and not us. I can't express how liberating and healing it has been to figure it out. To this day I can only handle being around her for short periods of time.
We must share the same mom because she also installed in my sisters and I that we couldn't rely anyone but each other*. Even at the company we work at she warned me to be on guard because she supposedly didn't want me to get backstabbed. Yet she talks to everyone, even opening up to a quite a few people.
Similar story. I’ve gone no contact recently as nothing else was working and am too old for the drama. I’m sure there will be more drama eventually but for now I just can’t. Wishing you strength ❤️
@@amandaluxmoore4228 Thank you so much! I wish you well and lots of healing too!!!
@@michelleriggs5435 bless
yeah we're sisters. congratulations on staying non-emotional w the mother. It's kinda like enjoying a chocolate cake but knowing the chocolate is bad for us. It's so unfair. But yeah, better be safe.
Wow, just wow. I've been married to my wife for over 20 years and this is so spot on. We first met in college and I thought she was the damsel in distress based off of things she told me about her upbringing. I have always had empathy for people and wanted to rescue her. When we dated she was very clingy, she wrote me letter after letter and I couldn't keep up. When she came to college with me (she was one year younger) I suggested to her she needed to find some friends. I became a resident assistant in a dorm the next year to save money (free room and board) and she was always over. If I had to do my job she would say, "Don't you want to be with me?" I didn't understand this, we were always together.
We get married our last year of college, she would sleep in on Saturdays until 11 and I wanted to get my day started at 7 or 8. When I wanted to work out at that time she would say, "why don't you ever wait for me? I'd like to work out with you." When I'd wait she would want to be with me but she wouldn't want to work out, she'd want to go do something with me that she wanted to do. We graduated from college and I thought she would get a part time job to pay for her share of her college debt, maybe have a mutual goal of increasing our retirement, saving for a house. Nope, she didn't do that right away. After 9 months of her finally getting a job, she worked for four years and we had our first baby, she wanted to stay home. I had no choice on that, it was expected of me to provide for the family.
I bent over backwards trying to get what she wanted and hoped that it would in some small way be reciprocated. It wasn't. I would want more intimacy with her and she would shame me for wanting it. I had goals financial goals but they didn't matter. She has tried to sabotage almost every budget we ever started. I became controlling of the finances because she would start spending so much and she knew how to provoke me to anger by interrupting me, talking over me, diminishing my values, etc: "All you care for is money!". Shame on you essentially is what she was saying.
Now we're embroiled in a mess at church. I started standing up to myself last year. She went to a lady at church and told her she was abused. Not one time has any of the elders ever called me prior to this to get to know me. However, all of the sudden they start calling and making accusations to me. I keep trying to tell them what is going on and they keep protecting her. I contacted a therapist and I have learned that I need to accept who I am and accept the situation. My therapist is right, the problem I'm having is that I feel a moral biblical obligation to remain married, but how do I do that, and accepting the situation, when things like our budget go down to 0? I'm tired of trying.
1 Corinthians 7 does mention separating instead of divorce.
Dang you been thru A LOT. Talk about patience fr & She is a lucky woman. You sound miserable though…what does your gut tell you? The Holy Spirit inside of you ? Go to God.
Also put your foot down bcuz you need strict boundaries with your wife ..she’s manipulative
OH, what a tangled web she weaved when at first ......she tried to decieve.
My wife and I are volunteer walkers for seniors with a dog they are too sick to care for .......and serving the dog has taught me about GOD and LOVE.
The other day the Vet said our beautiful 13 year old ......" Maggie " may have a brain tumor , but " Maggie laughs and still smiles and plays like a puppy.
You see, buddy, dogs don't care about dying they only care about love.
My mother tourtured me for 60 years till her death and she was a Narcisist that did not love or care about love.
I have 25 years working as a DSW in Government Psychiatric, 2 years of Police Training and 35 years in private study in Psychology and Behavioural Science.
Your dancing with the Devil here and deciding which element is less hot than the other but that 's not how you solve this problem.
Keep, praying for freedom and a solution because once you know what the problem is in life .....THEN.....your half way home.
I'm so sorry that you and the child face this now but I know many that do not wake up to this evil till they are 40, 50 or 60.
You were manipulated into marriage by a liar/deceiver , how has that marriage vow any value or meaning? It's not your fault, she never showed you her true colors. You only have one life to live. Get out or you will regret it when it's too late.
So sorry for all that you have endured ❤️ Be in prayer for guidance and wisdom, and even if it means standing up to your wife's demands and finding a new spiritual community on your own (one that she cannot sabotage) to seek support from different leaders who can pray for you and encourage you. Hoping you find solutions and healing soon ❤️🙏🏻
You just described my older sister exactly! I always wondered what was wrong with her, appears helpless, so sweet, always broke, nobody loves her, coworkers hate her, on and on, finally broke off relationship earlier this year, just can’t handle all that drama
OMG! Same. She always the victim and people are “mean” to her. Never sees what she’s done wrong.
The fake empathy is how I spotted this narcissist I had to room with. It's so subtle, and it took me a while to notice. The sudden change when they think the social engagement is done is where I noticed. It's like he didn't know he needed to keep his mask on until I was gone.
You might have identified an ASPD. We don't fake unpathy
watch for micro expressions of disgust, they have disgust at others and themselves.
My mom checks all the boxes. She is 89 and lives in an Assisted Living. I am the only child and the only one that helps her in anyway in the family. No one else pays any attention to her. She has me so fed up sometimes, I just want to abandon her. I won't, but that is how I feel. What a thankless job this is!
I am an only child, Mom is 94, she checks all the boxes as well. It;s finally started that I speak back to her now, but it is thankless, I agree with you! Good Luck!
@@paulaellis6242 I am in therapy and am starting to set boundaries. It is the only way I am going to live through the next several years (her mother lived to be 99). The last time she started to act up during a visit, I said "If you continue to talk to me this way, I am leaving." and I left. I do her laundry, I take her to the doctor and I get her prescriptions. I try to visit her for 1 1/2 hours each week. I am no longer calling everyday.
So sorry. You're a much better person than I because I'd probably abandon her.
@@kathleenklein4231 You sound like me, my Mom lives 10 minutes away. I have also told her before, that if she continues on her awful attack on everyone and everything, I am leaving, Wow, she stopped, but it is such an emotional roller coaster. Best wishes from one that 'Get's' it. All the best....
Oh man im 20 years behind u. My mom's in her late 70s 80s not sure...(shes 39 apparently) and i just go there clean the fridge make sure everything is clean and safe and she wont trip over her rubbish and she will screetch at me because she has lost a scissors. Shes also a hoarder. And if u say anything anything...trying to be psiitive or soenthing she just tshuts down and sulks like a child...and so u cant talk to her about anything...she talks ans talks about people i dont know what shes on about.. and then if i speak she just looks at her phone... sigh. I alsso want to walk away but feel i cant. Maybe i will. Lifes too short. I can wait till shes 90 and help her then. Im so sick to my stomach with it.
My covert MIL left me more damaged than all the overt narcs I've experienced added up. She literally put me in a psych ward (I had a reactive episode that almost landed me in jail) and took my kids. People still think she's such an angel.
Explained my mother to a T. And she went to extremes! Its amazing how you grow up in this environment and think this is normal until you see other family dynamics. Alot of damage was done, I've gone no contact and am now in a much healthier place in my life, Mentally and physically
I remember being with a new friend, who seems to compete with me, in appearance. But the thing that turned me off, was how she treated a poor lady who approached us for money. She insulted the woman over and over and continued to criticize the woman afterwards. I couldn’t believe how cruel she could be. I decided to put a hold on getting close to this person.
That was a good choice cause i ignored how a covert treated poor people on the the street(people Who aproached to us) and payed de price
Most women are self centered, lying, cheating, nasty. Good luck finding a woman with the values women are supposed to have. I'm glad you are able to walk away! Most men are trapped with these psychotic women. Good luck to you.
BINGO
Yes yes yes!!! My friend always told me that I didn't have any empathy because ' You don't understand me' as she'd quote. And the thing is she would tell me how empathetic she is and I believed her until I wasn't sure anymore of how to describe or define her and her personality. I was confused because she's an animal lover and has cats and dogs as pet but when it comes to children she doesn't like them, as she'd put it ' children are annoying they're alway cry and whine '. And when it comes to people who for the lack of a better word belongs to lower grade job or lower in status she'd just act look upon them and show no respect and also avoid any form of communications, even if they help her she'd never acknowledge or appreciate or or just be cordial for their help, she treats them as commodity by just paying them back in cash, that's all.
How a person treats someone who can't do anything for them, says everything.
The animal thing really hit me. Our family had horses. The horses ate before the rest of us. We were damn near homeless because of these horses. One dare not criticize the horses, or else!
What a terrible position to put a child in, I'm so sorry, you deserved better. 🙏
The same. Plus my father is an alcoholic so there is the alcohol that is first on his list, than the amount of horses he is not able to sustain and then there is the terrible family who "left him all alone" with poor him and his poor horses that he still keeps reproducing although they're in a terrible state.
@@askarufus7939I will drink to dat. 🍷
Same! My mom would love on her dog like it was her baby…. I remember feeling that I wish I was the dog or I wish I could feel that kind of love from her….
😮Oh😮my😮goodness!😮
This is not one of the more common discussions even though I believe that it is commonly experienced. I actually believe it is experienced far more than what people realize because many of those rodeo/horse families are rotten to the core, often times the parents & children involved can be very egocentric and narcissistic (probably diagnostically so) The extreme competitiveness. The push for perfection the push on their children to succeed so they can vicariously succeed through their children garnering more attention and praise. Some of those rodeo people are beyond fanatical…they’re nuts.
My experience was not the rodeo crazy narcissistic environment though as those types often require a certain amount of wealth to procure the coveted breeds & to pay the entry fees, the travel fees and the trailers to travel etc
My experience was my dad had dreams of owning a ranch and we had anywhere from 15 to 29 horses at a time. Always .
My dad had been in a work related accident that had rendered him legally paralyzed, even though he could still walk & pretty well do everything they couldn’t get a doctor to sign a release so he lived on $1200 a month from Social Security and him and my mom had 9 kids in total 7 were living at the house as the other two were older. My mom could never keep a job- combination of my dad sabotaging it, and her inability to be a reliable employee because we never were able to keep running vehicles for any length of time and all the stress she would often be unavailable or we would call her work nonstop and so she could never keep a job so we were basically a family of anywhere from 9 to 11 people living on $1200 a month with 15-30 horses and those horses came above and before everything else…the horses needed hay. If they did get money, it would be spent on things like a horse trailer, but no truck to pull it. My dad was very narcissistic, and I sometimes wonder if my mother was not a covert narcissist, I believe that her intentions were true most of the time, but I also watched her manipulate the people around her. She was always a victim and people were always helping her and she would never admit it, but I think she used my dad‘s abuse and our struggles and poverty as a means of garnering sympathy and attention from others, but also as a means of surviving, because people would give her things and do things for her, because they felt bad for this woman with all of these children anyway, my point was that the horses were fed before we were, and that’s a tough way to live and I am sorry you went through that.
Hands down one of the best videos to explain Covert Narcissist, my ex boyfriend was one and it took me a long time to figure it out but boy I was so confused. He checked everything you point out. So scary and I’m so grateful that I got out of that so fast. It is extremely damaging to self esteem it hurt me deeply that I had to be so firm to cut contact when I feel so much In my heart he knew that and kept pushing so sad
I finally found out, after having a covert narcissist mother for 54 years that she is, in fact, a covert narcissist. So after a lifetime of mental abuse i can finally say: i now know what is wrong with her!!
And more important: i can finally heal and see things for what they realy are and also know that it wasn’t me!!! Better late then never, right?! 🥳🎉
Yes! Recovery and healing can happen at any age and it is so worth it. It is also so common for people not to realize this toll much later in life! I am sorry to hear it, yet I want to say how wonderful you are doing this work to heal! Wishing you all the best!
@@BarbaraHeffernan Thank you and i want to say thanx to all channels that talk about this for opening our eyes and making it possible for so many people to understand what they’re dealing with. It’s a true blessing!! 🙏🏻💜🕊️
@@moniquevanleeuwen6514
I realized with 55. I think is quite common due to the gaslighting and because it's a hard pill to swallow.
@@Lyrielonwind True!!
I hear you. Learned that my mom is a covert narc about a year ago. I'm 51. Hurt like hell because my dad died a few months ago and I'm a now self declared orphan. Next time I talk to my mom, it'll be to her ashes or her headstone. At least then I'll get heard ;-)
The covert husband is very good at making you look like the covert narcissist. They force you into their behaviors if you don’t know what you’re dealing with. Having a covert mom set me up for more pain and anguish than I knew.
I've had a covert narcissist friend whom I've had a crush on. It's scary how much it sounds like you're talking about him directly, like you knew him personally the way that I did.
This is so well explained! I grew up with a narcissist father, who tormented me till his death 4 years ago. This is helping me understand and also deal with other narcissistic family members. Thanks
Wow. I lived 21 years with a spouse who hits every single point. Through every single year of our marriage I was on the defensive as her and I constantly circled the question of what was wrong with me. The whole time I also wondered why all my friends, family, and co-workers, one-by-one, all stopped associating with me. It was only after the marriage ended I slowly began to discover the outrageous lies that were told. It was only in counseling that I began to see the truth of the mental manipulation and emotional gymnastics, and gain the strength to get out.
Our refrain: To find out what is wrong with me.
Same happened to me, all by the same playbook. You'll spend years trying to get back the person you were, and lost, while you were married. Marry a good women and you'll be happy for life, marry a covert narcissist, and you'll become a philosopher.
@@polymathematics5837hahaha that was a good one.
@@polymathematics5837Facts
Sometimes we,dont noticed that the person which we consider part of our life are : Narcicistic one
THANK YOU for mentioning the dog topic with regard to narcissists. I’ve been saying for years that narcissists love their dogs because they worship them at their feet no matter what; even if the narcissist abuses them, their dogs will show them love & devotion. From my experience, narcissists tend to hate cats. Why? Because you actually have to EARN their love & affection. Entitled narcissists can’t vibe well with that kind of feline energy.
I experienced this too!
I'm not keen on cats but adore dogs, and now wondering if I'm a Narc 🤔😮
I love many animals and keep house rabbits and you have to earn their trust, love and affection
Because rabbits are a prey species (unlike cats and dogs, both predator species) it takes a more deliberate investment on your part to build a relationship with a rabbit. A rabbit may start out as shy, afraid, very independent, or hesitant to trust you. It takes deliberate action on your part to build trust and mutual understanding with these sensitive, intelligent prey animals.
We've huge bonds with our rabbits and hope that means we're not narcs 🐇🐇 despite my not being keen on cats
Whoaaaa I always thought to myself that my ex-husband loved his 2 Doodles more than me. He cared about them sleeping in the bed more than he cared about me detesting it.
That was an early warning sign. Next time I’ll take it as the red flag that it is.
You exactly correct! 🙌
Not if the dog is drawn to the SO (whoops)
The covert narc landlord's math goes like this: 2+2=5; and tries to change the terms of the lease every 6 weeks.
This video help me a lot for making sure my mom is definitely a covert narcissist!!!
I always felt she was kind oddly that made me so confused about her behaviour.
I aware that she was fake empathy and see everyone is her extension....children just her property.
When things go wrong she will think it comes from others problems but NOT herself, even though the facts shows the truth. She NEVER apologies to anyone or anything since I could remember.
And she totally have no empathy at all!! She used to say that someone get depression is just they are too lazy and overthinking.🙄
But I know she can pretend to cry if she need....I saw her cried when my grandma died, she had tears on her face, but I KNOW it was fake (even though I was still a kid at the time).
I knew she can cry but that just for showing to others, I can feel the tears is not from her heart.
I learned so much from this channel, as a covert narcissist's child, I just wanted to get away from my mom as long as I can.🙄🙄🙄
I married into a narcissistic family and learned slowly what covert narcissism is all about. I wish I understood it back then because I had to uncover what I was dealing with over time. When I first noticed a few odd behaviors, I was simply told that the person was "overbearing and domineering." Peeling back the onion over the first 5 years was super disturbing. I keep a very detailed journal of my life in general so I have been able to put together pieces of behaviors and incidents over time to see the pattern. I had never heard of the attention to the dogs more than children before, but that is also ringing some bells for me in this particular relationship. Thank you for such great content. So insightful!
I'm glad for you that you kept a journal. I wish I had. Trying to bring up the things I had to bury and forget has been difficult. There were too many years to be able to sort it all out. I lack so many points of reference so it is difficult to remember the way things happened.
@thegridrunner9976 I send my backup to our home network. Also to the "cloud" into two programs. Ones encrypted, my 3 adult sons have all my passwords AND my backups 😅
I married into a family with a covertly narcissistic parent as well, but having been raised by an overt narcissist I only thought that this person pissed me off due to their lack of boundaries. I just assumed this person was a spoiled brat who had never been reined in. It took years to realize that it wasn't a matter of indulgence; the family survived by acquiescing whenever possible, hunkering down when the storms struck, and hitting a mental reset button after the storm passed.
This person once turned to my husband in front of me and said, "I told you years ago you should've taken away her parental rights. You didn't listen to me." Thanks to the reset button, my husband has no recollection of this!
We would visit my in-laws and have a difficult time, talk about it on the way home, and as soon as we hit the state border, he would turn to me and the kids with a cheerful smile and say "wasn't that a great visit? When can we go back?" We would all stare at him like he had three heads.
And as I'm typing this, I am struck by the realization that there is another covert narcissist in this family, the one ostracized by the narcissistic parent and backed up by their enabler. Suddenly, this family dynamic makes more sense.
I married into a narc family as well. My sil and mil were described to a T in this video. I’ve been no contact for 3 years and it’s one of the best decisions of my life and saved my marriage.
@@munequa81 I drastically restrict my time with my in-laws. We have always limited the access they had to our children as well, and when they were old to make their own decisions about visits my husband and I backed our kids' boundaries.
Your grandkids are not obligated to stay in your presence while you pick on them and demand they be servants. If you've showered them with gifts they don't "owe you" love and gratitude. If you go into their suitcases and wash their laundry while they're not around, they are not required to fall all over themselves with undying gratitude for your martyrdom.
They don't have to hide who they are and keep quiet while you say awful things to them. They can rock your boat as wildly as they are comfortable with, and they are justified in avoiding your venom as much as they need to.
My MIL will tell the world she dotes upon her grandchildren. She did, until they turned into actual people with opinions. The minute my younger daughter (who strongly resembles her) hit puberty, MIL relentlessly competed with her and picked on her appearance. That girl looks like a goddess, btw. When my older daughter transitioned, she went from pampered boy king to persona non grata. After years, MIL still calls her by her birth name and gender and tries to blame it on being too old to learn new things. This despite her having publicly said all the usual supportive LGBTQ things when my daughter came out.
Nope, nope, nope. Our kids have the right to escape our childhoods.
The backhanded compliments, omg, they are almost funny to think about. I hadn’t been home to visit my mom in almost a year, and the first thing she said to me was, “Oh you look great. You haven’t gotten as fat as I thought you had when I saw your pictures on social media.” She can say it with a straight face, and totally dismiss any objection I have to being talked to that way. My feelings of being insulted just slide off of her like water on a duck’s back. But I can guarantee you, from personal experience, if anyone said anything even close to that to her, she would seethe about it for the next 20 years.
You hit the nail on the head about their hypocrisy! That's the hole in their gaslighting that we can escape through.
"But I can guarantee you, from personal experience, if anyone said anything even close to that to her, she would seethe about it for the next 20 years."
TRUTH! 🤔🙄💡🤓✈🌈🌿❤😃
How about this one: he )the guy she slept with for five months while telling me she needed to work on herself).
He was so much bigger than you the sex
Was
Really uncomfortable. Five months she drove two hours to another city to sleep with him.
She said this to me as if was receiving wonderful compliment.
The passive aggressive behaviour was the destroyer of the relationship. Smirking, sneering, , sniggering, sighing, raising eyes at me. ALL the time. Drove me wild.
You're right that this topic isn't covered enough, and you hit many points that resonated with me. THANK YOU for covering this, and especially for emphasizing that even these less overt types can be very damaging.
This was a great video on Coverts. A good indicator is if you begin to have self esteem issues during or after time spent with them. It’s not NORMAL to feel that way. Pay attention. Thanks 😊
one of the things that took me for a while about ex covert narc who was sadistic and paranoid when i spent time with her or talk to her on the phone i used to feel bad and tire
THIS! Some of my signs are feeling anxious, wondering if I did something wrong, and replaying conversations in my head. People in narc forums are so justifiably afraid of winding up with another narc (me too!), but paying attention to how WE feel makes things so much easier. We don't have to stick around to confirm if someone is a narc if we just honor our right to spend time with people who make us feel good. People who haven't been abused understand this intuitively.
My self esteem took a big hit in my last relationship. The guilt trips, blame shifting, and gas lighting tactics wore me down. I questioned my own worth. It was 18 months of that crap. Hopefully I'll regain my value and move on. I dont want to suffer another one of these relationships again. Its a blackhole to hell.
My mother is a full blown narcisst and extremely cruel with people, specially those who should be the closest and most beloved ones... while at same time she's ok with animals and even owns a dog. She used to say "people who love animals are good people" and "I LOVE animals, much more than people" and things like that, now I got why.
I used to groom dogs and so many of our customers met these criteria. They loved their dogs more than their children and were proud to tell you so. It was an eye-opener
I take it, pets are most times easier to control and they love control. Royalty to their pets in their
own little worlds. Most pet owners- nothing like Narcs of course.
@@jhavajoe3792 Spot on, for the dog narcisstic owner is a literal god and he loves it. Beside what helps greatly is dog's personality - they're very dependent and easily bonding animals. The owner is everything for them, even if treats them badly, that's why they love dogs so much. That shit won't pass with eg reptile pets or even a cat, so they prefer their ultimately submissive and loyal canine.
Well, but it is normal. Animals are way better than people.
@annabeauty7084 yeah, I agree it's something to look out for if a person mainly wants worship from their pet and stuff like that. But a lot of us just enjoy that dogs are non-judgmental, affectionate, and spontaneous. My dog reminds me to live in the moment every day. (He's a handful lol) 💜
A lot of people also enjoy caring for pets. Being responsible for a pet means you have a reason to get out of bed every day, so it's wonderful for managing depression!
I was married to a male covert narc for 49 yrs, 9 mos. Couldn’t find any help nor info about all of the patterns & manipulations I’d experienced for sooo long. After he passed away 6 yrs ago, I was able to find some things, slowly but surely. I couldn’t study constantly because it felt like PTSD, so I took breaks & then returned for more understanding when I could bear it.
And most folks wouldn’t believe or couldn’t comprehend the situation. I didn’t want to get punished for saying the wrong thing… walked on eggs all the time. I knew others would blame me & dislike me saying anything. Hubby wasn’t a martyr outwardly because he wanted everyone’s admiration & approval. He thought he was above acting impolitely in public…. & was very careful so he couldn’t be blamed. But at home where no one knew, he’d reveal very little. He was very VERY COVERT!
Thank you so much for your words!
The last 4 years I had a covert narcissist in my life until a couple of months ago (because we moved away).
The confusion she caused me to feel was the worst part of it. She pretended to be a friend but really tried everything possible to ruin my ability to trust in my own judgement.
EVERYTHING you mentioned fits her perfectly! Even the part about the pet dog.
You really helped me to get rid of the heavy weight on my shoulders I used to have because of the constant accuring selfdoubt and selfblaming.
People did not believe me and kept telling me I am over thinking it etc.
And the mother of the narc was treating me like shit as soon as I no longer let myself be terrorised by her twisted daughter. She doesn't admit, nor accept that "her golden child" is full of vicious, evil s*** eventhough the narc is also destroying her own family.
To everybody suffering from the scum called narcissists:
Please for your own health & safety GO NO CONTACT as soon as possible! 🙏🏼
Do NOT worry about their "feelings" because they have non!
They only have a never ending thurst for others to pump up their ego.
And sadly enough... they will find their next victim. There is no healing for them!
Take good care of yourself !
And most importantly: you are NOT insane - they are!!!
That is SO true about narcissists and their dogs. It can fool you into thinking maybe they are capable of empathy.
I love the way you worded this. That is exactly the problem!
They are unable to have empathy 99% of the time because they are so constricted in their ideas of perfection and expectations that only non humans can reach their standards if they even do
Oh my goodness. Yes. Her little chihuahua dogs that have all these health problems. And then she just couldn’t come to work because she might have to put one of them down. And on and on. So…. I mean I love my dogs and am upset when they aren’t well, but…..
Yes my narc had a rescue dog, seemingly brimming with love and empathy as i do with animals.
Until i saw his poor rescue, the one he claimed to love so much, be kicked the moment he was irritated. That was a horrific moment of realization for me. I couldnt ever imagine doing something like that. The mask came off. When i called it out, his response "shes just being dramatic yelping like that." I am the problem if i think there was something wrong with his behaviour.
Guess crying after being treated horribly for no reason was also me being "dramatic".
They are so skillful at hiding their true selves, they turn on u viciously when the mask slips and they know u know.
This is why I have long since rejected the idea of “pet lover = good person”. You don’t know the story behind closed doors. Most people don’t go around killing dogs or cats for fun so people earn way less points to me for doing something that is normal. On top of this, most of these types of people only really care about how they feel. The animal can give them “unconditional” love and keeps them looking like a good person on the outside. It’s all about what they gain and keep, even if the animal is kept in squalor. They will even put other people down from this sense of “moral” superiority they seem to have.
Be kind to your animal friends but to these types of people It’s all shallow.
I had a psychiatrist who was a covert narcissist. He gaslit me and accused me of lying about everything including being Autistic. I hate that I ever trusted that man or throught he had an ounce of confidence. When the back handed compliments, passive aggressive behavior turned into storming out of sessions, never apologizing, and abrupt resignation for some other more very serious mistakes. Everything I said was interpreted as some secret slight toward him, "you are just trying to make me feel stupid" or "stop trying to impress me" were common replies. When I was diagnosed with a rare and painful blood disease by another Doctor he absolutely lost his mind and accused me of everything in the book even though I never asked for a Dx. I never felt so betrayed.
Yikes, even worse that it came from a psychiatrist, I'm sorry to hear that you had to deal with that trauma.
99.9% of psychologists are drawn to the study and the position because they want to understand what's wrong with themselves.
@@ShaareiZoharDaas I completely agree. The saying 'hurt people hurt people' and 'healed people heal people' rings true. If I psychologist or psychiatrist hasn't dealt with their own traumas they are more bound to hurt others. If they have addressed their own trauma in a healthy manner then they are more likely to be a vehicle for healing.
@@ShaareiZoharDaas Yeah…I was assigned a new resident physician every 8 weeks (teaching hospital rotation) and I met some VERY unhealthy people that were either PA’s or residents…I won’t go into details but that got out of hand as well. I’m not trying to judge but when your personal issues start effecting patients in a very bad way you need to get help yourself
@@calvinfinney5083 Yeah this guy was clearly unhealthy had admitted to having a heroin problem that only stopped because it got expensive. I’m really not trying to judge but i can’t imagine not doing drugs only because they are expensive. Spent my whole life loving therapy as it helped me grow so much but this experience was traumatic af.
Unfortunately I actually have a lot of empathy and that combined with trauma means I sort of attract damaged people and stick with them far longer than I should. I respect people who can learn and grow and turn it into something they use to help others but as soon as you start projecting your issues onto me and sort of falling off the wagon it’s not okay
Silent treatment, passive-aggressive behavior, rage, angry for the slightest comment, unpleasant, quarrelsome, restless, easily bored, victim. Something you really want in your life? Need for revenge? No, no time for it, just really really happy not to deal with it
Sometimes the “I do everything for everybody else” is an actual fact of those who are extremely empathetic and compassionate…those whose kindnesses have been taken for weakness (over and over again) by narcissists/users. This includes being a safe place to fall (a listening ear) for family and acquaintances. HOWEVER, when the kind and compassionate ones need a shoulder to cry on or a listening ear, they’re met with quick brush offs like “You’ll get through it, you’re strong” or “this too shall pass”. They often have NO ONE around them who’s emotionally intelligent enough to be present with them when they’re experiencing real/serious life challenges. Narcissistic people are shallow and cannot face or handle their own emotions, let alone hear (or care) about those of others.
These people have traded their soul for Narcissism and are now dead inside..And what they hate about you is that you have a healthy soul and they are very jealous of that and they very much WANT IT! This is why they get angry when you fight them on their Narcissism because THEY WANT A SOUL! Every Time they get supply from you they take a piece of your soul and it feels soooooo good to them They want to take your soul and give you theirs..A soul exchange,. their dead soul for your healthy soul. Every time they get supply from you, there is an exchange, they feel good and you feel bad. This is why after a while you start feeling dead inside yourself.. This is why victims says they are evil. because they feel this..
That is a terrifying way to describe it, but it feels very accurate. It also make me realize how important it is to protect oneself from such exchanges because inevitably if one's soul is depleted to a certain point but they are still physically alive, would it not make sense that they end up trying to take another's soul, thus continueing the cycle... I'd like to not have a worst case scenario.
cluster Bs dont choose to have these personality disorders...
When you start to realize this, you feel like you’ve been living in a horror movie. And in a way, you have
I think the beautiful thing about people is that we can get back in touch with our soul, through God etc. I'm not sure it's a finite resource or that the only way out is to take from another. I've changed my mind about that and am much more optimistic.
@redredkroovy That's true but what are the rest of supposed to do? They are like a cancer in your life, there's no helping them, they won't help themselves because they think they're perfect. It's best to just stay away. Maybe someday they'll find a cure or at least they'll stop having kids to torture. Until then save yourself.
I can’t say they’re a narcissist, but I’ve had a friend like this. Everything she presented was compassion and empathy/kindness. But in private she is competitive, judgemental, deceitful and envious.
She seems like one
I mean, everyone has all of the traits you listed, to some degree. If she feigns compassion but is actually just calculating in the background then I think it’s fair to judge, but we all have moments being envious or competitive or judgmental. Deceitful, idk … that’s rough.
Wishing you luck, xx
The public face/mask and the private/unmasked.
One woman who I know now for sure is NPD would appear so caring with her son in a restaurant, feeding her 7yr old with a spoon and giving tender hugs etc
In private, she locked on herself to avoid caring him that way the father has to deal with the son’s needs.
One incident, the father went to drop off a car at the mechanic and she kept calling asking when he is coming back to feed his son while she was right next to him just killing time.
What also became clear is it was more about her being hungry and wanting “room service”. She would conveniently arrive just in time to pick up the hot breakfast, after the dishes were done, the meal prep was done, and all the cooking was done. All of a sudden she is available and if anyone wants anything - oh but she has something important she has to do this very second.
I don't know if my friend is a covert. Over the years I've noticed patterns one seems petty but I see photos of her with everyone else but when we have had times together where we could have a photo opportunity she won't take one. Also I helped her and a friend get their friendship back on track and feel like I'm always reaching out to them. I left it a few months to see if they would reach out to meet up with me and nothing so I'm really confused if they are my friends or not
@@AmbientAsc maybe you’re just a backup. I had a new friend and I thought wow we have so much in common, they texted nonstop, and we couldn’t wait to get together again and again. Turns out they were only out to benefit themselves. I gave in one time on a deal where they benefited and I didn’t. I thought that maybe I just have to be patient with them, but then they were up with another deal without acknowledging not coming through on the first. I didn’t go along with their next idea and they simply stopped all calls and texts. I reached out as a friend and they pretended to be so excited each time (the same way when I met them, extremely friendly and charismatic), but they no longer initiate the call or text, and stopped meeting up. I guess they are teaching me “a lesson” for not doing what they want me to do. Why should I? They broke their first agreement. They don’t keep their word and expect you to continue having no boundaries and take more chances on them, or else they will deny you their fake friendship. They sure can be fun to be around but it’s all a show. I don’t trust them. The problem too is they are vindictive. So if you don’t allow them to have control over you, they will punish you. If you run in the same circles they will ruin your opportunities behind your back while smiling at you through it all. That person even told on himself a few times. Glad I was paying attention. Now that I know that they don’t actually care about me, I will not allow a bond to be formed. I know they will betray me if they are benefiting. It’s cool to be able to be aware and watch them play their games without being hurt.
"your hair kinda looks nice... today" - she actually complimented me like that😂
My MIL recently said to me "Ohhhhhhhhhhh! You look SOOOOOO much better than you did a year ago." 20 yrs of comments like that, and that's a better one.
Great video Barbara. Your list is spot on. (Especially the love towards pets. Amazing example) I have experienced each of your examples of a covert N and to this day I’m still recovering from the abuse as it has changed my life. Thank you and all the others who post videos on this topic. I’m sure you have helped so many people understand that what we have all endured is not our fault. Deep down we all know it but these videos are reminders to victims of narcissistic abuse that THEY are the problem not us and it helps us all in our journey to health and happiness. All the best.
I was deeply betrayed by a covert narcissist who I thought was my best friend. She stabbed me in the back, lied to the other pastors and a pastor's wife about me (hubby was an unpaid assistant pastor at our church). They believed her and thought badly of me without verifying anything they were told.
At a meeting with the other pastors and her, my husband and I were stripped of all our church positions and told to leave the church, as a result of all the unverified stories she told about me. 💔
She claimed to care for me but didn’t come after me or apologize for what had happened to me and my husband. No remorse.
That episode crushed me and left me confused. What you just described here was her. A covert narcissist. Charming, always the victim, but really the perpetrator.
That must have been so painful 😢
@rivkaruthgolan It was. I literally had PTSD for quite a while, and for many years afterward, trusted no-one to be close friends with.
I've had a few very long medical and situational "time outs" since then (it will be 13 years on July 4th--yes, July 4th). During those isolated "time outs" I was able to safely unpack all that baggage privately with God and deal with it little by little.
In the years since, I have read lots of articles and books, watched many RUclips videos, listened to podcasts, etc. These have given me words and concepts I didn't have before so I could properly process things and have a framework of reference. I am so grateful I've had these resources come my way.
I've now healed enough that I can again open my heart and make friends at our new church. I love and celebrate who I'm becoming. I have emotional skills to ward off the bad stuff in people instead of getting sucked in.
It’s good you don’t fear Christianity. I struggle with how to work out my faith. I’m all in for evangelism. It’s me I’m at a loss on how to comfort and encourage. Thank you for sharing.
@charminsky5738 I have been able to separate the acts of people from God himself and the church at large. At the meeting where we were kicked out, I felt the Holy Spirit speak to my heart to just let it happen. I sensed there were demons in the room having sway over the other people involved.
What was super painful at the time ended up being a blessing in disguise. It was disguised, all right. 🙄😉 For a long time, it was disguised. It was a long, hard road to process it and allow myself to be broken, chastened, and ultimately healed in the process as well.
Hubby and I needed to be expunged from that toxic environment and toxic relationships. We would not have left of our own accord. So we were forced to move on.
The original church we were at was Evangelical and kind of fundamentalist. I was becoming someone who was super judgey of others. It wasn't pretty. We have slowly evolved to realize who we are--fairly liberal believers. Ex-vangelicals. Each church we went to after getting kicked out was a stepping stone toward who we feel we truly are as believers and as people.
We are now attending our third church since being kicked out (we left the other two on good terms, it was just time for us to move on), and feel like we finally found our tribe. Never thought we'd be Episcopalian, but here we are. 🤷♀️😊
I hope you are able to find the way faith and the church works for you. Sometimes it can be a long process. ❤️
@@pinkrosessheilamy heart goes out to you. I am experiencing something very similar in church right now. A wolf in sheeps clothing covert narc betrayed me too. Turned my friends & church people against me, and tried to strip me of being able to serve. Church hurt is real, but I'm so glad God has walked you through healing. I know what you mean about being hesitant to make new girlfriends & trust.
As a victim/survivor of many Narcissists,particularly IN my family! I have developed "Narc-dar", an inner warning system for recognizing these types! I may not always be right, but at least I'm forewarned to be on guard.
Or maybe you are one
@@soberanisfam1323 The Narcdar-dar
@@dancroitoru364 it takes one to know one and the chances of op having narc is huge due to having MANy narc in their family
@@soberanisfam1323 no. most likely it goes like this: Barbara equipped with a psychology PhD discovered that YT business is even more profitable than clinic work because for each page of DSM V she could make literally 1 mil views from gen M/Z teenage souls (although most of them are in their late thirties) validating them in thinking they are victims of a truly sick world. so no, 99.9% of the folk here have no narc, no bipolar, no etc and their families, friends, bosses are ok or at least no more a-holes than most people. -)
@@dancroitoru364 interesting theory
They can not connect to intimacy, leaving you on eggshells all the time. Seeking intimacy with this person really is unfixable. You will always feel your living with a stranger.
The one I was with just said he feels like a stranger to everyone.
He doesnt know hes a narc.
I think im trauma bonded.
Theyre totally different after a while.
Oh my God, @Barbara Heffernan! I was cleaning up my kitchen while watching this video and almost fell over when you talked about how the Covert Narcissist tends to absolutely adore their pets - dogs in particular. You were so perfectly describing a guy I was in a relationship with beginning January of 2023 that went on for about 6 months. I completely fell for him and then he discarded me, leaving me completely shattered. About a month ago, I discovered Covert Narcissism and realized it described him perfectly. When you brought up their tendency to deeply admire and love their pets, however, I couldn't believe it. My ex absolutely adored his dog. Don't get me wrong - I have pets myself and I love them dearly also and go to the ends of the earth for them often, but I do not shut the door on other people and put them above others in such an unorthodox way as my ex did. He lived a couple of hours away from me and so I would drive to his house on weekends. He absolutely had to sleep wherever the dog would sleep. He had a very nice loft bedroom in the upstairs of his home but his actual bedroom was on the main floor. One weekend when I stayed with him, he suggested we sleep up in the loft instead. I agreed and we went up there and crawled into the bed. His dog came up with us, but was obviously uncomfortable up there and did not like being in the upstairs. The dog got up and went and sat by the stairs and would whine here and there. My ex was clearly upset by this and after some tossing and turning, finally said - "This isn't going to work. I'm going to sleep downstairs. You can stay up here if you'd like, but I'm going downstairs. I can't sleep up here knowing he's not content." I thought it was so odd. I replied - "Why don't you just lead him downstairs and let him sleep down there and we can stay up here?" He was not ok with that at all. I had to get up, pack up my CPAP machine, make the upstairs bed, take everything downstairs and then get into his bed down there so he would be happy. I didn't make a big deal out of it, but the whole situation struck me as a bit odd and over the top. I was so incredibly hurt when I was discarded. After learning more about narcissism, more specifically Covert Narcissism, now I'm thankful for the discard. I truly believe God was saving me from what could have ended up being a hellish life. I definitely have learned some lessons. Thank you for your videos and spreading awareness of these very toxic people.
Thank you for reminding me of what normal, sane, emotionally healthy people are.
We are a family trying to heal from the deep discard of a covert narcissist.
Our only worth was as props & to hear his bitter resentment & jealousy of others.
He lacked any empathy for us, his family. Yet he presented himself as a highly personable, empathetic mentor in his career.
Our praise & attention never provided the CAREER & EGO GLORY he sought.
It was like living in black & white to witness such changes in character. Surely nobody outside of our home would ever believe THE TRUTH we lived with.
Our children could watch videos of their father publicly mentoring others with great care & attention IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA on RUclips. He never spared time for his own children like that, ever.
We were there to serve a man with no conscience & a hollow soul.( lacked any REAL depth of love for anyone )
Sounds like a typical passive aggressive two faced bastard
She was the same
ruclips.net/video/buWKu14q-sw/видео.html
Her discard was deliberately acute of course.
That must have been so painful for the children. And for you that you and the children have been the only ones who could always see the difference between the fake and the truth and to know that no one outside could believe it. Stay safe and keep healing. It's unbelievable how this personality disorder is recognizable through different countries, cultures and languages. I remember all partners of my dad always saying the same about him: Jekyll & Hyde,
split personality,
why he keeps behaving us much worse than anyone random outside?, etc....
I liked them always more than my own dad. I left home and told police once I don't wanna be with him anymore. I was 14. Such a silly childish act. I couldn't explain them anything. I didn't know how. And not one close sane family member could do anything about that. Even the adults were totally cought in his nets full of lies, manipulations and threats. Each of them had to do his or her best to keep at least self in safe. And some failed anaway. My father is an advocate, unfortunately. The only who always kept silence about him was my mum. I am convinced now, more than ever in my life, she payed for this the highest price. Her imune system failed totally after more than 10 years of psycho terror caused by him. The illness went so quickly. She died 1 year after the diagnose. I am 43 and still alive.
Thank you for this insightful video. With my covert narcissistic mother, it’s pets in general. She can be so kind and loving when it comes to our cats, but can be so unfeeling and unkind to the human being (namely me, her punching bag!). She checks ALL the boxes of a covert narcissist, and excessively indulges in the “humble brag.”
Your mother is only OVERLY kind towards your cats because, she wants YOU to feel LESS than they are! Don’t fall for her tactics but, if you already have… just know you’re worth MORE than what she’ll ever be able to provide for you!!! Peace and Love, my friend! 🙏🏽❤️🌻
@@nernatbentley3778 Thank you! That’s very nice of you to say. Peace & Blessings to you as well 💐💐
😢
@@breakthroughmoment1647 Thank you! 🙏🏽
My mothers theme she pushes that I’ve just figured out when cleaning up another damned mess she allowed to happen…poor sweet old lady with two crazy kids that are out to get each other…and then does this back and forth thing with me and my siblings…telling me they’re out to get me and telling them I’m out to get them…so now my siblings that take after her are on a war path I’ve learned…they’ve sabotaged every relationship and friendship I’ve had..the ones who tried sticking around always end up leaving because they start getting attacked by my family..,but I’m the crazy one for getting upset when I lose yet another friend or a job or my neighbors start targeting me based on what my family says about me…they even had my dog taken from me..
Omg! The dog comment just blew my mind, I had been struggling with this exact point since I realized she was a narcissist. I always felt less important that then her dog. I even told her, if you had put half of the effort in us as you did with your dog we would still be happy. His walks and all other things always had the priority. I suspected it was because he gave unconditional love but It still confused me. Now this seals the deal for me and gives me clarity. Once I got hurt and the dog had an injury too but she couldn’t,t have cared less about me and kept telling me about the dog as I took care of myself by myself. It was very belittling. Thank you for the clarity
This is absolutely from far the BEST source of information i ever heard about how is your life when you are leaving with a narcissist without even knowing. For years i read and watch a lot of content, but i was 99% only sure because of some details that still made me doubt. Like empathy and love for our dog, or some other people. Evrything i heard in your video was just... my daily routine for the last 20 years till 2019. The cover narcissist best trick is the same as the devil : Try to make you believe he does'nt exist. It is so revealant to hear from you taht they can use empathy like a cognitive skill. So many memories and details are actualy make sens right now in my mind. Thank you so much. Please people, subscribe !
I had a male covert narcissist friend (I'm also a male).
A lot of the abuse centered around feminising me. He always tried to make it seem (whenever I called them out on their behavior and how it made me feel bad) "like a woman", using terminology like "too sensitive" or "nagging". This is the tip of the iceberg, but I find it really interesting how much need there was to "demasculinize" me as their friend. It's almost like they are deeply misogynistic and tried to make me feel bad by making me feel like I'm more feminine than masculine, and that that's a "bad thing". He made it seem like my emotions were "too much" and I'm always creating drama.
It's interesting because my friend's father was an alcoholic and had passed away at young age (he opened up about this trauma VERY early which I didn't back then recognize as a red flag). He had a history of cheating on his girlfriend, rivalry between some other person in his "scene" (I still don't understand what it was about), he lost friends along the way, one of which said my friend was gaslighting him and he succumbed to reactive abuse (he was violent towards my friend after being emotionally abused by him, I imagine). He lost some friends but at the end in the discard he projected hard and said "no wonder you lose friends all the time", or that "I don't have problems like these with anyone else", implying that my problems were "wrong" because no one else had a similar problem with him (my problem was his distancing and lack of communication despite not being open about any problems between us).
It's a twisted world out there. Most humans are also (apologies for my language) fucking lost in their ways and life, and it's apparently difficult to be empathetic to others and realize that others have their own lives as well (you are not the only one who might be busy or has stuff going on that cause stress). I tolerated way too much because it was always made to seem like I'm the problem. I apologized incessantly, to the point where they got mad at me for apologizing (they literally said it's pissing them off that I apologize).
Well, that was when I snapped into reality. I realized they never apologize and that I also always apologize despite being the one to bring up an issue in THEIR behavior and its impact on MY emotions. This was the sole source of all our arguments and disputations. If only they didn't succumb to emotional abuse, we could be still friends. But someone who is never accountable cannot be in an intimate relationship/friendship with a person who is assertive and has boundaries. Trying to control someone who is in charge of their own life is doomed to fail, and thus we have the outcome: we are no longer friends and I've removed them from my life and all social media.
I'm sure my friend feels 100% justified in all their actions and is 100% convinced that they are the victim and I'm the problem.
and you can take out the "almost like" before the "he was misogynistic" Good for you for getting out!
Damn what an awful friend that was actual your enemy
I am proud of you for standing up for you and being you. You win yourself
Nagging as I understand it refers to complaining about minor things that don't have negative consequences if delayed and/or left alone to resolve on their own. Feelings are your own, so it's not neutral viewpoint. What kind of things did he do? I'm trying to figure out the behavior of someone I had to break up with.
A lot of male narcissist coping mechanisms are morally wrong like cheating, and they try to hide behind misogyny as a way to feel like they are not lacking character and morals.
It is the idea that "all men cheat" or if you treat women like people you are somehow less than a man, or beta.
You being a man of character and calling their behavior out, ruins their smoke screen of trying to act as if they are not morally bankrupt, weak,and lack character.
So instead of acknowledging that they are the weak ones that lack the control a man with character would have, they instead project it onto you.
Covert females do the samething when another female gets attention they want. When I was younger you could tell by they commenting on a girl minding her own business but being noticed by men as " she thinks she's cute" comments smh.
I liked that you clarified that passive aggressive behavior doesn’t always need to come from a manipulation. I had a friend in high school who was very passive aggressive. She was never manipulating though! It stopped right away when I told her it was more than fine though not want the same things and that the friendship we had should have room for both our voices. She came from a home with a very controlling father, and had little to nothing to say about different things when around him. Her passive aggresive behavior came from frustration and also being scared of speaking her mind, while feeling a need to be more active in different social settings outside of the home. I have no doubt it would have gone sideways if I had been upset at her or tried to change her behavior in negative way.
being passive aggressive is manipulation.
@@thunderousapplause Yes, say that again!!! The writer above wrote "Her passive aggresive behavior came from frustration and also being scared of speaking her mind". This alone should be enough to detect the intention to manipulate in order to get the desired outcome, since speaking her mind would have made the writer accept or reject whatever it is that the "friend" wanted.
The narcissist bait is imparting the image of being friendly, loving and 😊caring, respectful, honest, faithful, family oriented, extremely sociable . Once his victim swallows the bait, he throws the net .
Hi Barbara, Great video. The spot at 13:33 about helping was interesting. I try to follow the same principle every cell in my body uses to share resources. If a cell is near a another cell in distress (say muscle cells after a good workout) the neighbouring cell will only share half their resources and if that's not enough to help the cell in distress they won't share anything more. Other neighbours might be able to help the distressed cell through but the cells usually go no further than half their resources to ensure their own survival.
My sister is 3 yrs older than I am. For my whole life she was my goddess, my hero, my compass. My love for her was kill-for/die-for. Seriously. I was SIXTY before I recognized her narcissism. I made the mistake of calling out the way she was treating our dad and apparently unleashed the (formerly) covert narcissist. And for the last 14 years since then, I have lived in her crosshairs.
Similar to my experience with two older sisters.... 4 and 8 years older, who treated me worse than my mother did, so I ignored them, growing up. It took me over 60 years to realize what they are..... me, Cinderella.
Ouch. I can spot a lot of them now, but not sure about my older sister yet. She is loved by all and loves buying things for people. She does have controlling tendencies and hates any remarks about what she does.
One time I pointed out that she best not text so much while driving and the next few days of family reunion became toxic. I found everyone ganging up on me and she was the instigator. Funny thing is I was the one apologizing in the end! I could not believe myself later. I think now it was peer pressure and a need to be welcomed back into a group. I avoid all reunions now.
She was all nice before saying our goodbyes and told me I should come visit, and not to be angry with her. So why should I be angry if according to her I was in the wrong? Now I have serious doubts about her.
@@leonab545 After 18 yrs of marriage to one, plus a lifetime w/ my sister, 4 yrs in a work relationship, I've gotten pretty good at sniffing them out. My #1 lesson is to proceed slowly. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. I just assume everyone is a narc now. It doesn't make me a very fun person, but it prevents some grief. And I'm happily surprised when I'm wrong. Just remember: Covert narcs can take a lifetime to reveal themselves. Best of luck.
@@susanlewis1875 I'm so sorry you experienced that with your sister! (And husband and work relationship) It's chilling how they can switch so suddenly and reveal a completely different person. It's extra heartbreaking when it's someone you've loved so completely. : - ( I'm glad your narc detector is active now. Good wishes to you! : - )
@@bellaluce7088 Thank you, my friend. Better safe than sorry. Peace to you.
I was in the marine corps and when I got back home I got destroyed emotionally by this. Several years of depression almost killed me as well as the death of my mother.Everyone in my family is like this and now I’m homeless, but I’ve never felt better. I’m finally free. But now I have narc traits that I’m trying to work through with the help of my siblings. I got a lot of work to do. If my siblings didn’t know me I swear they would hate me.
Hugs
How does tha t job make you a narc? As my ex was a marine and he was a narc
You can come to my house for Christmas! Many of us find each other and develop new families who love and support us and each other. It's tough overcoming the realities we were faced with. But you have sibs. Very fortunate if you can get along with them. I have one out of five who gets me.
Being homeless would be better than living with a narc
Hope you're still alive and good.
This was extremely precise -- you completely nailed the portrait. You are describing my mother. I only figured out that she was a covert narcissist in my 40s after years of therapy. And no one else (except my parter who totally sees through her) can see it. Thank you for sharing this information.
Oh my goodness! Down to the dogs!
My boss is a narcissist. I have never experienced domestic abuse but i imagine the not knowing what sort of mood he is in..will be the same. Its like walking on eggshells. New staff members are like lambs strolling into a lion's den, oblivious to the danger ahead.
I had a supervisor like that and he eventually gave everyone enough hell and sucked at his job enough that he was finally demoted and then fired.
I have an ex girlfriend who turned out to be a covert narcissist and just as you pointed out she was in love with her dogs and she in fact ran a very large pet rescue that specialized in dogs and she was very hesitant to ever deal with cats. And of course she painted herself as a pillar of the community while delivering all of the behaviors that you described oh so well.
This sounds like my sister.
To me a sign is when they adopt children, huge amounts of children
Tired of reading non-sense. about my label.
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye what do you mean? What label? What nonsense?
@@RANDassociatesinc Hi, didn't mean ttack you esspecially seeing that you seem nice. I picked you almost randomly on here. What is the topic of this video?
Spot on! I worked with a narcissistic boss for four challenging years. Nightmare time. She had a personalised car number plate, expected birthday presents from all the staff (or else)!, indulged in expensive designer labels she couldn't really afford, and demanded flowers every week from her husband. She did little work, preferring to palm it off on others. She took the credit for other colleagues' ideas, gossiped and lied endlessly. She presented as extremely charming, only gradually revealing her true self. After many years, and following many complaints to HR about her, she was transferred to another department. Interestingly, even her superiors were afraid to deal with her behaviour and she eventually retired - no doubt believing she'd been an excellent employee!
That's not NPD. Stop the stigma.
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye Three two NONE is one of them.
They come to lie and destry but they die off eventually. YAHOO
Wow, this was really validating. My mom used appaear as a totally different person in public. She also loved the dog more than us, moped when he died but not for my sister whrn she passed. She is also now very attached to her cats and is devoted ro giving one insulin every time he eats which is unbelievable to me.
Haha, I always tune out anyone who starts by saying “the word narcissist gets thrown around too much these days”… then proceeds to talk about it. I don’t believe that only 10% of people are narcissist. I think the reason that people are talking about it so much is because now that we understand what it is, we can identify it much more clearly, and I think there’s a lot more people that are suffering from this because child abuse is rampant, so is child leniency and both of these things create narcissism. We even have these people in the highest levels of our government we work for them. We’re married to them and they are everywhere.
My ex-wife had 7 / 10 of the covert npd symptoms. She's a clinical psychologist. She cared more about our dogs than our marriage. :(
GEEZZ HOW SSAD.
High powered career people, especially women, exhibit these symptoms on level 10/10
I totally believe you.
I’m so sorry to hear that. I’m glad you’re out of it.
You'll find the psych. field packed with narcissists of different varieties.
One of the symptoms of the times we live in
is that so many people will try to trigger or triangulate someone else just to ‘figure them out’ so they are easier to manipulate and control.
The problem is
that if someone
does not give off the response that the attacker expects, then the target is labeled:
“Sociopath, psychopath, narcissist.”
Those terms are quite specific and scientific.
Not everyone who annoys someone else is a narcissist.
People with NPD are mentally ill and dangerous. They will deliberately hurt other people. They will leave their targets writhing in emotional pain and then they’ll hit the gas and push the sufferer even farther.
The ONLY solution is to:
1) Set rock solid boundaries.
2) Create maximum distance/silence between you and the pathological attackers.
Thank you for all of your videos. My mom was a covert narcissist. It’s actually playbook. This knowledge has helped me so much to heal and know it wasn’t me. I was a child.and YES my mom loved her dogs. I thought she definitely liked them way more than me.
I’m getting out of a relationship that matches him as covert I’m so glad that I listen to this because I’ve been doing all of this stuff and actually feeling better about myself and I know that I’m moving on with my life happier 😊
I am surrounded by covert narcissists in my life, (and one grandiose narcissist that is easier to recognise). The worst is my older sister, who was jealous of my birth, because my very existence threatened the attention she got from our mother. I spent my whole life being thrown under the bus, sabotaged and undermined by her passive aggressive behaviours. We are still in conflict at the ripe ages of 77 and 75. At this point I don't care a fig. I am fully self aware and that's all that's important. Great post, Barbara!
It sounds like maybe she was treated by your mother as the golden child, or she would have overgrown normal jealousy as a small child when a new baby was born?
@@galaxia4709 Exactly right; and I was blatantly trashed by my mother, as sis looked on with glee. She got her comeuppance in later life though, as I became successful and self aware, and her husband trashed her! Karma.
@@HelenaM-kt8ni Yes same with me, my 3 yr younger brother the golden child and my mom showing disrespect to me (its only become worse and very harsh to me), so he learned to disrespect me I think. Sadly a yr ago my brother passed away, this may seem fairly long ago but it isn't and still feels as 'young' news to me, we were soulmates when we were kids and it feels as if I lost a twin....but anyway, practically since my brother's passing my mom doesn't want to see me anymore. Then a while later it appeared to not be this resolute and she stands open to my calls but it all has to come from me and she never takes any initiative. This isn't doable and lately I haven't felt to call her, but it comes with a price, I am dependent on her to see my 8 yr old niece, daughter of my brother.
Much worse things have happened, with the bad wife my brother was married to, who didn't care he died and was happy to inherit his apartment, she and her family threw my mom and I out of his app when he wasn't even cold and had just passed a couple of hours ago, falsely accusing my mom and me and especially me. And my narcissistic flying monkey aunt (sister of my dad) who saw & grabbed the chance of her life and finally found her ultimate excuse to be able to be against me and is treating me as if I am a "criminal', she and her husband blindly believed the false accusations of my brother's family in law, and are both acting accordingly towards me. And then my blood own mom, the things she has said, blamed me of and the way she has treated me as well as certain triangle situations with the enemy my brother's wife, instead of being en-bloc as family together against her, since my brother's passing....
Sorry I didn't mean to write this long.
On Saturdays I was home alone with my mum as a young teen, she made me do all housework, I was a really good girl…quiet, but good…never a bother to anyone…introverted….my mother would be in her favourite place in the garden all day…ALL DAY… ….my dad was working in factories…dad pulled up in the driveway, and mum was already waiting for him inside looking out the window…i remember the first time this happened and my blood turned to ice….she raced outside and threw herself at him and put on this hysterical behaviour with pretend tears and the works screaming like she’d been attacked….I thought something had bitten her, she was crazy….then I heard her tell him I’d been hitting her and swearing at her and spitting at her all day…it was the opposite, I hadn’t even seen her…I was inside all day, she was outside…
She did this over and over, she completely fabricated a story to get attention from dad ….I was a young girl, maybe 14/15 years, and realised my mother hated me and felt nothing for me….and there was no reason for it…no one ever touched her, she was the all dominating one who pushed everyone around all day including my dad who was her slave….even worse, my dad believed her and I copped it from him…I remember screaming it wasn’t true she made it up and it made him even angrier….she was a monster. She still makes total shit up about me and I’m 54.
💔
That's devastating 😢
😮truly crazy
Thank you! Most of the videos I’ve looked at about covert narcissism give examples that are way more blatant than my former “best friend” who I have been distancing from once I realized the hit the relationship was making to my health. This video was very validating and helped me understand the situation.
I’m so glad I stumbled on this video bc I’ve been seeing wayyyy too many people throw around different traits without the underlying psych information necessary- even licensed clinicians discussing questionable studies and unreplicated information & it’s a bit exhausting when a lot of people are really just adolescents anyway & will grow out of the egocentrism at that stage
#5 happened to me and my husband at a business we contracted with. New person in charge who was a walking warehouse of red flags literally physically sabotaged tools, keys and property in the office to try to make us look bad. She even took things offsite so we couldn’t use or find them when a job needed to be done. My husband even openly asked in front of the entire office “who would sabotage us like this?” She got up in a huff and tried to be the hero. We ended up walking away from this business after a handful of weeks of her orchestrations, which was turned by the owners, who thought she did no wrong, into an opportunity to verbally abuse us instead of just parting ways like normal people. They even tried to deny me the final monies they owed, which is totally illegal. They felt justified because they decided they didn’t like us anymore. It was pure retaliation. So thankful to be away from those “people”.