Not necessarily. Traditional martial artists do this so that they can strike hard objects like skulls and bats without fear of breaking their "instruments." It's an external training method. Japanese martial artists who train this way for a ridgehand/knifehand (haito/shuto), for example, actually cause mini fractures in the small bones in the wrist, causing it to regrow denser and with less holes. Do it wrong and you're disfigured, do it right and you can hit anything, without mobility loss.
Grandmasterdaughter, can you please post the rest of what he is saying about conditioning in between the knuckles? The video was cut off at the most important part.
@ephasm um i dont really want to be a part of this arguement you got going on but i just wanted to let you know that boxers wrap their hands to protect the many bones in their hand from breaking. boxers dont condition their hands the way a traditional martial artist does because they wear gloves anyway when they fight. traditional martial artists believe that they must be ready at any time. its really just a difference in philosophies. and just to tell you, cho doesnt have arthritis.
@lsnowboardl i said boxing. not muay thai. boxing started in greece as a sport in the same way wrestling did. and your right that muay thai got its roots from muay boran, but we are unsure of muay borans specific roots though we know it was used by early siamese warriors because of attacks by neighboring countries and tribes.
@ephasm forgot to add in my previous post that boxers also wrap their hands to keep their wrists from moving too much. in a martial art such taekwondo, there are many techniques wich require you to be able to move your hands more.
I do NOT wish to be included in the flame war that is going over this video, so please leave me out of it. I do, however, have some points to make. GM Cho is now 70 years old and has no discernable arthritis. He is an outstanding instructor and was a superb fighter in his youth. His skill level is still very high. ephasm-are you sure that nobody in the AIMAA has done any fighting worth respecting? I am just asking and I am not taking sides against you.
Grandmaster Hee II Cho is a top man in TAE KWON DO I remeber I wrote him a letter in 1995 and he replied back to me and gave me the advice that I needed. Best wishes to you always a true master. Emil M.
@ephasm I am sure there are plenty of AIMAA guys that would very gladly spar with you. Which one of the ones in your sparring videos is you? Have you been training in Muay Thai for very long? Who is your instructor and who are they under? I am just being inquisitive.
So many people think that in order to get tuff hands...just hit something hard. There's a lot more to it, as you now know. Whatever you hit has to have some give. That striking force has to have somewhere to go. When you break a board after striking it that force is dispersed through the broken board. You can hit a wall for training IF you know how! You strike it at a moderate speed/force and upon contact "push" your knuckles into the surface as hard as you can. Repeat several times.
I just posted my first break after 5 yrs of training with master cho. I am now 51yrs and have no problems with my hands, i even play the guitar, not well but i do play! :)
actually this type of training along with squeezing stressballs can make your bones stronger and joints stronger, if youre already a fighter this when done correctly can be a protective measure to keep your bones and joints from getting hurt or breaking as theyll be conditioned and strengthened over time. some people get arthritis without even injuring bones and joints FYI. this can also help in a street fight as your knuckles do in fact become much harder and dense over time
this is a perfect example of the hip turn. first the hip then the striking hand. grand master Cho is a great martial artist with a open mind. an envatot
@L0rdBalmung1 but regardless of whether you are afraid of breaking your hand or not your soft, unconditioned, hand might still break. Besides which hand conditioning increases the striking force of your hand because you will not only be strengthening the striking surface, you will also be strengthening the surrounding tissue and the muscles used to deliver the blow. General Choi used to say that people who didn't condition had "lady hands". Conditioning is quite important.
@kenseisato1989 Dit Da Jow is a liniment used to heal your hands and prevent damage including nerve and tissue damage, cuts, and swelling; making sure that your hand is ok. For more info look on wikipedia or type Dit Da Jow into a search engine. If you're wondering where you can get some, just walk into China town, go to a traditional chinese medicine shop and ask for Dit Da Jow.
@skidz187 agree 100% they have resistance bars specifically for building hand strength and you go up in numbers as your hands get stronger, this guy may have hands of steel but in 20 years he will be in severe pqin on a daily basis.
@kenseisato1989 Hey man sorry it took me forever to get back to your question. (I'm sure you have your answer but just in case you haven't, good how isn't meant to cause callousing in fact quite the opposite, it's going to help heal your hands while they harden so that they're smoothed and uncalloused but just as strong. I've never done any form of iron hand or palm training but jow will help you prevent yourself from getting injured.
Do you know if it is safe just to condition for like a year or two? I just want my fist strong enough so it would not break from hitting the skull or elbow. There really is no reason to condition more than that right?
@warriorfire8103 nope he is doing reverse knifehand to a pad on a post, it's hard to do but not the same as hitting the bare post. He can do that at his level, his hands are very strong! I'd have to work up to that!
when you put your hands through that kind of impact for conditioning it causes your bones to develop calcium deposits where small(tiny) cracks occur, these build up and eventually you get pretty tough hands!(its kinda like how muscles develop) not sure myself if itd b all that great for u in the long run tho
...BTW, saw your page, great MT footage. Thing is, old school MT kicks trees to toughen their shins just as karate and other arts toughen their hands. Anyone can do anything better than you if they train for it. The boxer can have all the power in the world...can he land a hit and/or take one in return? Lyoto Machida, a karate-based fighter, has fought heavy hitters but they couldn't touch him because defense and countering can cancel out power. Not familiar w/ AIMAA, so I can't speak on it.
I can't hear when he says to properly condition them, do you have to do a lot of reps of hitting hard??? and between what??your knuckles as well?? thank you
@mastichka You’re wrong....When you have been doing this for years as the Grandmaster here, the next level up is to remove absorption little at a time. At this point he only requires the little absorption that the wrapped rope provides.
Hello great footage. I am a master in Tang Soo Do and personally practise body conditioning. Just wondering if you know what the Korean term for 'Body conditioning' is? I know the Japanese term 'Makawari' and 'Hoju Undo' but not Korean, the only word I have come across is 'Dallyon Joo'. Thank you
@ephasm haha this is my last reply to you but has anyone ever told you youre a hater?accept that there are other styles besides muay thai(wich i respect very much).you went from arguing about arthritis(where you were proven wrong) to arguing how all of tkd sucks and how your a badass. And have you ever tried asking your instructors why you wrap your hands? they will tell you something to the effect of its to protect them. i never said boxers were weak but boxing is and always was a sport.
@SuperSneakySteve Oddly enough, he's actually stated that while techniques like this can lead to arthritis, he hasn't gotten it after training for years and years doing this.
Well conditioning your is good but you should never hit anything harder than a bone, bags are best for shin and hands. Start with softer bags and when you feel like going to harder take it out, if you hit hard objects you hand /knucles will gradually become weaker. just take it nice and easy and it will harden...but it will take time (haste makes waste). And in fight its better if your knuckles are "sharper" it hurts more and its possiple to make cut.
other than conditioning the bone, what else does this kind of training to do your hand? I've heard you bruise less easily after a while (only from callouses or something else?) other than bone density (wolff's law etc) has anyone ever studied the changes in the joints, tendons, cartilage, skin etc from this kind of training?
this is to prevent damage. And if you're in a fight, your hand wont break after the first punch, which is very common. he is only doing it this hard because he's done it for years. if you wanna see real conditioning look for okinawa karate vids, its crazy
@ttam142 actually the earliest form of boxing that we know of started in in ancient sumer greece is just credited for actually making it an official sport
@AnGobh i will definetly invest in that. thanks a bunch and also i looked it up on some sites and theres different kind of Did Da Jow. witch one will be best for hand conditioning, and also does Jow make it so that you get nice callus?
If you've never done this before try doing what this man in the vid is doing, then yes you'll damage your hand. That's why smart teachers tell beginners to do knuckle-ups for at least 2-3 yrs before ever attempting this. And even when you start, do it gradually and listen to your body. You don't just start banging away at a hard surface like this man, he's been doing it for years. Plenty TMA masters have done this for years and their hands are fine, because they were smart about it.
dude, when you condition you can just keep hitting the already bruised areas. one of the fundamentals of the conditioning is to make small cracks in yor bones so when it repairs it repairs thicker.
this causes micro fractures to ur bones.. and in return the bone repairs after some days gettin stronger and harder. like when u cut ir nails. they grow. and in bodybuilding u tear muscle fibres inside and when u take good diet and rest they grow bigger and.stronger.
One of the true legends of old school ITF TKD - must have been good to have qualified in first place from the ITF instructors course under Gen Choi in 1969. Plus no-one other than his contemporay Hwang Jang Lee had a side kick like Master Cho. Taekwon Cho sonsaengnim!
@SuperSneakySteve that is a myth you dont get arthritis from hand conditioning I am 50 and have been traing since i was 19 and i have no signs of arthritis and i play the piano!
That goes for any modern unarmed combat system, modern or not. Every fighting style has prescribed rules and guidelines that differentiate it from other styles, otherwise there'd be no difference b/w MT and TKD. VTW, MT is a traditional art too, it's been around for centuries just like the other Asian arts. Fighting systems are only dead if the figher himself does not adapt his art to meet present needs. At the end of the day, it's about the fighter not his fighting style.
...As far as the hand injuries, the risk of injuries in boxing isn't less. In fact, the risk of injury is highly increased because of regular competition. IBA put out a 2007 report talking about it. Same with MT, average career in Thai circuits is less than 5 years because of the high risk of leg and stomach damage. Several fights a year in the space of 5-10 years, do the math. Granted, there's risk of injury in TMA too, but competing increases your chances. Not all TMA schools compete.
@kenseisato1989 Except if you're not careful in treating your hand properly, you'll do more damage to your hands in nerve damage and arthritis. That's why in kungfu they use dit da jow to heal the hands and prevent this kind of damage.
I remember back in the 1980's Hee Il Cho smashing the breeze block wall at a seminar i attended and a squillion young impressionable martial artists thought it was the way to go...It ain't necessary. Develop your techniques, that's more important. Cross train in other styles, get in the ring from time to time and don't be intimidated by your instructors politics. You are free to do what you want where you want to do it. Most of all don't listen to anyone who tells you their style is best.
Yes, I am quite aware of that...the Japanese were big beleivers in that method. I was just saying you don't HAVE to break bones to do this. Plus it must be done just right or you will only do more damage than what you are trying to accomplish.
And my point was that what you're saying is not fact, it's your perception of the facts. Perception is reality. If all you wish to see is MT, that's all you will see. It's the same mindset that people have when they see a guy like Machida fight and say, "He's using knees and elbows, there aren't any knees & elbow in karate!" In point sparring, no, but the style itself uses more body parts than people think, because many of its techniques are illegal in a so-called "full-contact" fight.
I guess ultimately it is "bruise medicine" but it's CALLED dit da jiao - it's a wonderful-smelling ointment that aids the joints & bones in recovering from minor impact damage, etc, it also drastically decreases the intensity of bruising & swelling of the skin & muscle tissues which is why it's always been popular with kung fu practitioners! I'd definitely recommend it to ANY martial artist!
Can one really condition one's hands and feet like this without actually damaging them? Yes they can continue to strike....smash blocks of ice, boards and bricks...but is there damage really? Does the mobility change? And is there after time pain and early arthritis? Even if you gradually "condition" one's hands and feet. (shins of Muay Thai boxers)). I wonder...has any one looked into this...does a day come...in old age...when the hands and feel stop functioning. Unable to move. Deform.
None taken, I don't take TKD, I'm a karate man. But I'm also a man who sees value in all the arts and training methods. When you consider that even Bruce Lee use such methods for hand and leg conditioning, then that shows it has value when used in the right way for the right reasons. I mean, to make a fighting stlye from boxing and fencing concepts like Bruce did? Mind-boggling. Many different ways to train, bro, but of course people have their preferences. Anyways, Merry Christmas to you.
My point about Savate and Kyuokushin was not as you've taken it. but rather that as soon as these guys fight under a set of rules that are less restrictive and with scorign that scores on effect rather than touch it forces them to be more effective in their striking. As soon as a ruleset forces people to be more honest and effective with their striking they tend to resemble Muay thai. That's the fact I was referring to.
...You're still replying? These are only facts in your sense of perception, dude. A martial art by definition is one person's perception on combat. Victory and defeat isn't decided by styles, it decided by the will of the people who fight. He who imposes the terms of the battle imposes the terms of the peace. One day, you'll understand.
people fought with hands,feet,grabbing and weapons, outsiders looked on...both saw advantages...studied them to continue getting the advantages...voila...martial arts were born.
Be honest, I wouldn't do any strengthening to the back of the hand or that chop along the thumb and fingers. I think that's just hurting the body instead of being beneficial.
For one, if you want to break your thumb in a confrontation then by all means train doing this. I personally think its non beneficial. I don't care how many centuries martial arts have been practicing their techniques, it's a known fact now in modern times that a lot of what they do is nonsense. I'm not even saying this because of the latest fad which is MMA because that's a fun sport to watch and train but still a sport just like the NFL, NHL, MLB, and WWE.
@dragonbalzy you dont stop in a fight and think "Oh I might break my knuckles if I hit this guy as hard as I can" you think "Imma knock the fuck out of this dude". definitely not the same thing.
She was a nun of Southern Shaolin Temple.Wing Chun was created by Ng Mui,which was based of Shaolin Snake and Crane Hand techniques,created by both men and women. Zhang San Feng created Tai Chi.Martial arts were created by PEOPLE, not just men, not just women.
Never said there's no advantage, I'm saying it's only as effective as the fighter who uses it. If two men have the same fighting style and match up well, or have opposing styles which cancel each other out on paper, then the style is no longer the main issue. It's now about who has prepared more and can impose their will. Man makes fighting styles, not vice versa. And what does "agreed by everyone" mean? Some JKD practitioners would very much disagree with you, so it can't be everyone...
That's what comes down to you isn't? What you think, because in MMA, pretty much everyone gives credit to B. Lee for showing them that no one art is perfect, even MT. Even a great Thai striker like Anderson Silva will tell you MT is not enough. What JKD brought to today's fighting isn't just another style of fighting, but a different mindset from the old one that says, "MY style is perfect, all the rest bow down!"
I have seen live, and filmed master cho puching through 6 or more bricks stacked on top of each other. the last time i was with master cho was 1992 he would have been about 52yrs then and not one sign of arthritis. if you train properly you will not damage your hand. the way you will damage your hand very badly, is the first time you get into a street fight and punch some dude in the face, after you have trianed with gloves all your life. YOU WILL BREAK YOUR HAND !
...Traditional Savate does mainly foot kicks, not much for knees and elbows, so where's the resemblence? Kyokushin doesn't just borrow from MT, but from Korean arts too - how often do Thai boxers do axe or crescent kicks? BTW, traditional MT did not have much in the way of punching( i.e. use of the hand, not talking elbows here)when it was created. Hand techniques were added over the years due to Western influence, which some see as a diluting of the art. Everybody borrows from everybody, man.
Again, you're using prizefighting as measuring stick for all combat effectiveness. There's fighting in the ring/octagon, and there's fighting on the street. Any sensible unarmed combat trainer - MMA, Muay Thai, karate, BJJ, etc.- will tell you there are things that work in the ring that won't work on the street and vice versa...
You shouldn't feel pain nor have to break bones to do this right. Yes some believe you should break the bones so they "grow back" stronger. Ever break the frame on a car? Did you weld it back and make it stronger? NO! They even believe in breaking the skin opened and still continue to hit with the open sores so they heal stronger. Sounds like it should work in time and with pain. The same results can be got in an easier thoughtful manner. It is all in the layers of training...I may write a book.
Didn't say they've never been injured. If you're into true old school fighting, Western or Eastern, you're going to break some bones eventually. You can arthritis from fighting with gloves too, so...Anybody in the fighting business charges for the same things. "Modern" fighters who don't do any of this stuff have DVDs and charge high amounts too, let's single out one group. There's people who do it cuz they love it, and those who do it for the money, that's in any profession.
Great teacher and instructor. His life story is amazing. It's an honor he shared this.
Not necessarily. Traditional martial artists do this so that they can strike hard objects like skulls and bats without fear of breaking their "instruments." It's an external training method. Japanese martial artists who train this way for a ridgehand/knifehand (haito/shuto), for example, actually cause mini fractures in the small bones in the wrist, causing it to regrow denser and with less holes. Do it wrong and you're disfigured, do it right and you can hit anything, without mobility loss.
Grandmasterdaughter, can you please post the rest of what he is saying about conditioning in between the knuckles? The video was cut off at the most important part.
@ephasm um i dont really want to be a part of this arguement you got going on but i just wanted to let you know that boxers wrap their hands to protect the many bones in their hand from breaking. boxers dont condition their hands the way a traditional martial artist does because they wear gloves anyway when they fight. traditional martial artists believe that they must be ready at any time. its really just a difference in philosophies. and just to tell you, cho doesnt have arthritis.
@lsnowboardl i said boxing. not muay thai. boxing started in greece as a sport in the same way wrestling did. and your right that muay thai got its roots from muay boran, but we are unsure of muay borans specific roots though we know it was used by early siamese warriors because of attacks by neighboring countries and tribes.
@ephasm forgot to add in my previous post that boxers also wrap their hands to keep their wrists from moving too much. in a martial art such taekwondo, there are many techniques wich require you to be able to move your hands more.
I do NOT wish to be included in the flame war that is going over this video, so please leave me out of it. I do, however, have some points to make. GM Cho is now 70 years old and has no discernable arthritis. He is an outstanding instructor and was a superb fighter in his youth. His skill level is still very high. ephasm-are you sure that nobody in the AIMAA has done any fighting worth respecting? I am just asking and I am not taking sides against you.
Grandmaster Hee II Cho is a top man in TAE KWON DO I remeber I wrote him a letter in 1995 and he replied back to me and gave me the advice that I needed. Best wishes to you always a true master.
Emil M.
He is such a master. He's strikes are slower than the speed of sound. Respect the master!
@ephasm I am sure there are plenty of AIMAA guys that would very gladly spar with you. Which one of the ones in your sparring videos is you? Have you been training in Muay Thai for very long? Who is your instructor and who are they under? I am just being inquisitive.
That is absolutely insane focus and pain tolenrence
So many people think that in order to get tuff hands...just hit something hard. There's a lot more to it, as you now know. Whatever you hit has to have some give. That striking force has to have somewhere to go. When you break a board after striking it that force is dispersed through the broken board. You can hit a wall for training IF you know how! You strike it at a moderate speed/force and upon contact "push" your knuckles into the surface as hard as you can. Repeat several times.
I just posted my first break after 5 yrs of training with master cho. I am now 51yrs and have no problems with my hands, i even play the guitar, not well but i do play! :)
actually this type of training along with squeezing stressballs can make your bones stronger and joints stronger, if youre already a fighter this when done correctly can be a protective measure to keep your bones and joints from getting hurt or breaking as theyll be conditioned and strengthened over time. some people get arthritis without even injuring bones and joints FYI. this can also help in a street fight as your knuckles do in fact become much harder and dense over time
this is a perfect example of the hip turn. first the hip then the striking hand.
grand master Cho is a great martial artist with a open mind. an envatot
Grandmaster Cho always was amazing. I miss training with him.
@L0rdBalmung1 but regardless of whether you are afraid of breaking your hand or not your soft, unconditioned, hand might still break. Besides which hand conditioning increases the striking force of your hand because you will not only be strengthening the striking surface, you will also be strengthening the surrounding tissue and the muscles used to deliver the blow. General Choi used to say that people who didn't condition had "lady hands". Conditioning is quite important.
ha ha! thank you that comment has made my day, and I'll remember to use it in the future!
Hello. Can you show us how many days of training and resting, please?
@kenseisato1989 Dit Da Jow is a liniment used to heal your hands and prevent damage including nerve and tissue damage, cuts, and swelling; making sure that your hand is ok. For more info look on wikipedia or type Dit Da Jow into a search engine. If you're wondering where you can get some, just walk into China town, go to a traditional chinese medicine shop and ask for Dit Da Jow.
@skidz187
agree 100% they have resistance bars specifically for building hand strength and you go up in numbers as your hands get stronger, this guy may have hands of steel but in 20 years he will be in severe pqin on a daily basis.
respect for a fighter
@kenseisato1989 Hey man sorry it took me forever to get back to your question. (I'm sure you have your answer but just in case you haven't, good how isn't meant to cause callousing in fact quite the opposite, it's going to help heal your hands while they harden so that they're smoothed and uncalloused but just as strong. I've never done any form of iron hand or palm training but jow will help you prevent yourself from getting injured.
Do you know if it is safe just to condition for like a year or two? I just want my fist strong enough so it would not break from hitting the skull or elbow. There really is no reason to condition more than that right?
@warriorfire8103 nope he is doing reverse knifehand to a pad on a post, it's hard to do but not the same as hitting the bare post. He can do that at his level, his hands are very strong! I'd have to work up to that!
when you put your hands through that kind of impact for conditioning it causes your bones to develop calcium deposits where small(tiny) cracks occur, these build up and eventually you get pretty tough hands!(its kinda like how muscles develop) not sure myself if itd b all that great for u in the long run tho
...BTW, saw your page, great MT footage. Thing is, old school MT kicks trees to toughen their shins just as karate and other arts toughen their hands. Anyone can do anything better than you if they train for it. The boxer can have all the power in the world...can he land a hit and/or take one in return? Lyoto Machida, a karate-based fighter, has fought heavy hitters but they couldn't touch him because defense and countering can cancel out power. Not familiar w/ AIMAA, so I can't speak on it.
I can't hear when he says to properly condition them, do you have to do a lot of reps of hitting hard??? and between what??your knuckles as well?? thank you
@mastichka You’re wrong....When you have been doing this for years as the Grandmaster here, the next level up is to remove absorption little at a time. At this point he only requires the little absorption that the wrapped rope provides.
it was started by her maybe (it was a long time ago) but it was developed and enhanced over time
I agree i like this video
I wanna know how to get a pair of those pants
Hello great footage. I am a master in Tang Soo Do and personally practise body conditioning. Just wondering if you know what the Korean term for 'Body conditioning' is? I know the Japanese term 'Makawari' and 'Hoju Undo' but not Korean, the only word I have come across is 'Dallyon Joo'. Thank you
Awesome and informative
@ephasm haha this is my last reply to you but has anyone ever told you youre a hater?accept that there are other styles besides muay thai(wich i respect very much).you went from arguing about arthritis(where you were proven wrong) to arguing how all of tkd sucks and how your a badass. And have you ever tried asking your instructors why you wrap your hands? they will tell you something to the effect of its to protect them. i never said boxers were weak but boxing is and always was a sport.
@SuperSneakySteve Oddly enough, he's actually stated that while techniques like this can lead to arthritis, he hasn't gotten it after training for years and years doing this.
Hi can you coach me one on one how to make my hands so strong like that? Thanks
Well conditioning your is good but you should never hit anything harder than a bone, bags are best for shin and hands. Start with softer bags and when you feel like going to harder take it out, if you hit hard objects you hand /knucles will gradually become weaker. just take it nice and easy and it will harden...but it will take time (haste makes waste). And in fight its better if your knuckles are "sharper" it hurts more and its possiple to make cut.
other than conditioning the bone, what else does this kind of training to do your hand? I've heard you bruise less easily after a while (only from callouses or something else?) other than bone density (wolff's law etc) has anyone ever studied the changes in the joints, tendons, cartilage, skin etc from this kind of training?
this is to prevent damage. And if you're in a fight, your hand wont break after the first punch, which is very common. he is only doing it this hard because he's done it for years. if you wanna see real conditioning look for okinawa karate vids, its crazy
@ttam142 actually the earliest form of boxing that we know of started in in ancient sumer
greece is just credited for actually making it an official sport
I think he was referring to Mas Oyama, he is Korean genetically. He is also Japanese because he lived there most of his life and got his citizenship.
@AnGobh
i will definetly invest in that. thanks a bunch
and also i looked it up on some sites and theres different kind of Did Da Jow. witch one will be best for hand conditioning, and also does Jow make it so that you get nice callus?
Either this audio is slightly out of sync or this guys hand is faster than the speed of sound!
If you've never done this before try doing what this man in the vid is doing, then yes you'll damage your hand. That's why smart teachers tell beginners to do knuckle-ups for at least 2-3 yrs before ever attempting this. And even when you start, do it gradually and listen to your body. You don't just start banging away at a hard surface like this man, he's been doing it for years. Plenty TMA masters have done this for years and their hands are fine, because they were smart about it.
That's a good way to spend your senior years in pain .
dude, when you condition you can just keep hitting the already bruised areas. one of the fundamentals of the conditioning is to make small cracks in yor bones so when it repairs it repairs thicker.
this causes micro fractures to ur bones.. and in return the bone repairs after some days gettin stronger and harder. like when u cut ir nails. they grow. and in bodybuilding u tear muscle fibres inside and when u take good diet and rest they grow bigger and.stronger.
One of the true legends of old school ITF TKD - must have been good to have qualified in first place from the ITF instructors course under Gen Choi in 1969. Plus no-one other than his contemporay Hwang Jang Lee had a side kick like Master Cho. Taekwon Cho sonsaengnim!
@SuperSneakySteve
that is a myth you dont get arthritis from hand conditioning I am 50 and have been traing since i was 19
and i have no signs of arthritis and i play the piano!
That goes for any modern unarmed combat system, modern or not. Every fighting style has prescribed rules and guidelines that differentiate it from other styles, otherwise there'd be no difference b/w MT and TKD. VTW, MT is a traditional art too, it's been around for centuries just like the other Asian arts.
Fighting systems are only dead if the figher himself does not adapt his art to meet present needs. At the end of the day, it's about the fighter not his fighting style.
why should i damage my hand?
...As far as the hand injuries, the risk of injuries in boxing isn't less. In fact, the risk of injury is highly increased because of regular competition. IBA put out a 2007 report talking about it. Same with MT, average career in Thai circuits is less than 5 years because of the high risk of leg and stomach damage. Several fights a year in the space of 5-10 years, do the math. Granted, there's risk of injury in TMA too, but competing increases your chances. Not all TMA schools compete.
@L0rdBalmung1 which allows you to punch harder ie stronger because your hand won't break. Same thing man.
As long as you condition with moderation, you shouldn't have problems with your bones and joints in the future right?
Nice brother cool
I condition my fists with bricks for direct striking capability.
@kenseisato1989 Except if you're not careful in treating your hand properly, you'll do more damage to your hands in nerve damage and arthritis. That's why in kungfu they use dit da jow to heal the hands and prevent this kind of damage.
@SuperSneakySteve He does not have arthritis. You would be suprised.
respect to mr. cho, that hurts to watch!
yep, it's called "wolff's law"... lil bits of bone are damaged then reconstructed to make it even harder...
Dicen que las vibraciones con el makiwara se te va la cabeza luego cuando eres mayor...
I remember back in the 1980's Hee Il Cho smashing the breeze block wall at a seminar i attended and a squillion young impressionable martial artists thought it was the way to go...It ain't necessary. Develop your techniques, that's more important. Cross train in other styles, get in the ring from time to time and don't be intimidated by your instructors politics. You are free to do what you want where you want to do it. Most of all don't listen to anyone who tells you their style is best.
great advice on the push ups. but he can also get a bean bag and just hit that with the finger tips and other parts of the hand.
Yes, I am quite aware of that...the Japanese were big beleivers in that method. I was just saying you don't HAVE to break bones to do this. Plus it must be done just right or you will only do more damage than what you are trying to accomplish.
those pants are dope.
lol i thought the guy was a elf or something then i noticed the top of the video was just stretching his head
And my point was that what you're saying is not fact, it's your perception of the facts. Perception is reality. If all you wish to see is MT, that's all you will see. It's the same mindset that people have when they see a guy like Machida fight and say, "He's using knees and elbows, there aren't any knees & elbow in karate!" In point sparring, no, but the style itself uses more body parts than people think, because many of its techniques are illegal in a so-called "full-contact" fight.
@ekkenaab It's called, makiwara. Train safe
@AnGobh
amen,
whats dit da jow?
I guess ultimately it is "bruise medicine" but it's CALLED dit da jiao - it's a wonderful-smelling ointment that aids the joints & bones in recovering from minor impact damage, etc, it also drastically decreases the intensity of bruising & swelling of the skin & muscle tissues which is why it's always been popular with kung fu practitioners! I'd definitely recommend it to ANY martial artist!
If you break a bone only the bone becomes stronger, any ligament, nerve or joint damage will make the limb weaker.
Is it me or are his fists faster than sound?
is the guy from bloodsport 2
criceto if my brother chose you as his student lol
This guy was jacky Chan's opponent in the movie drunken master.
Can one really condition one's hands and feet like this without actually damaging them? Yes they can continue to strike....smash blocks of ice, boards and bricks...but is there damage really? Does the mobility change? And is there after time pain and early arthritis? Even if you gradually "condition" one's hands and feet. (shins of Muay Thai boxers)). I wonder...has any one looked into this...does a day come...in old age...when the hands and feel stop functioning. Unable to move. Deform.
props to you.
the olympic stuff is wtf, Hee Il Cho is ITF im pretty sure.
None taken, I don't take TKD, I'm a karate man. But I'm also a man who sees value in all the arts and training methods. When you consider that even Bruce Lee use such methods for hand and leg conditioning, then that shows it has value when used in the right way for the right reasons. I mean, to make a fighting stlye from boxing and fencing concepts like Bruce did? Mind-boggling. Many different ways to train, bro, but of course people have their preferences. Anyways, Merry Christmas to you.
My point about Savate and Kyuokushin was not as you've taken it. but rather that as soon as these guys fight under a set of rules that are less restrictive and with scorign that scores on effect rather than touch it forces them to be more effective in their striking. As soon as a ruleset forces people to be more honest and effective with their striking they tend to resemble Muay thai. That's the fact I was referring to.
...You're still replying? These are only facts in your sense of perception, dude. A martial art by definition is one person's perception on combat. Victory and defeat isn't decided by styles, it decided by the will of the people who fight. He who imposes the terms of the battle imposes the terms of the peace. One day, you'll understand.
people fought with hands,feet,grabbing and weapons, outsiders looked on...both saw advantages...studied them to continue getting the advantages...voila...martial arts were born.
Be honest, I wouldn't do any strengthening to the back of the hand or that chop along the thumb and fingers. I think that's just hurting the body instead of being beneficial.
For one, if you want to break your thumb in a confrontation then by all means train doing this. I personally think its non beneficial. I don't care how many centuries martial arts have been practicing their techniques, it's a known fact now in modern times that a lot of what they do is nonsense. I'm not even saying this because of the latest fad which is MMA because that's a fun sport to watch and train but still a sport just like the NFL, NHL, MLB, and WWE.
Reyes R Tellez - The reverse knife hand is hit to the throat. Using every part of the body as a weapon.
@dragonbalzy you dont stop in a fight and think "Oh I might break my knuckles if I hit this guy as hard as I can"
you think "Imma knock the fuck out of this dude". definitely not the same thing.
ouch,,ouch,...ouch...ouch...OUCH>>>OUCH>..OUCH...OUCH DAMMIT...HOLY SHIT OUCH>>>OW OW OW
She was a nun of Southern Shaolin Temple.Wing Chun was created by Ng Mui,which was based of Shaolin Snake and Crane Hand techniques,created by both men and women. Zhang San Feng created Tai Chi.Martial arts were created by PEOPLE, not just men, not just women.
this is called makiwara training !! OSS
It might just be the echo you're hearing. Nothing is falsely portrayed in this video.
Never said there's no advantage, I'm saying it's only as effective as the fighter who uses it. If two men have the same fighting style and match up well, or have opposing styles which cancel each other out on paper, then the style is no longer the main issue. It's now about who has prepared more and can impose their will. Man makes fighting styles, not vice versa. And what does "agreed by everyone" mean? Some JKD practitioners would very much disagree with you, so it can't be everyone...
I trained with him
the internet spelling police always comes around when one knows he/she is wrong. funny.
No. He was korean.
That hurt to see that, i bet his hands are like steel, and if he would punch me, my bones would burst into pieces. Scary dude:)
is he a TKD Master? Why does he use the hands?
That's what comes down to you isn't? What you think, because in MMA, pretty much everyone gives credit to B. Lee for showing them that no one art is perfect, even MT. Even a great Thai striker like Anderson Silva will tell you MT is not enough. What JKD brought to today's fighting isn't just another style of fighting, but a different mindset from the old one that says, "MY style is perfect, all the rest bow down!"
i had stoped punching for 2 weeks i punched a wall and it hurt my knuckles my advice never stop training or your knucks will get soft
I have seen live, and filmed master cho puching through 6 or more bricks stacked on top of each other. the last time i was with master cho was 1992 he would have been about 52yrs then and not one sign of arthritis. if you train properly you will not damage your hand.
the way you will damage your hand very badly, is the first time you get into a street fight and punch some dude in the face, after you have trianed with gloves all your life. YOU WILL BREAK YOUR HAND !
...Traditional Savate does mainly foot kicks, not much for knees and elbows, so where's the resemblence? Kyokushin doesn't just borrow from MT, but from Korean arts too - how often do Thai boxers do axe or crescent kicks? BTW, traditional MT did not have much in the way of punching( i.e. use of the hand, not talking elbows here)when it was created. Hand techniques were added over the years due to Western influence, which some see as a diluting of the art. Everybody borrows from everybody, man.
Again, you're using prizefighting as measuring stick for all combat effectiveness. There's fighting in the ring/octagon, and there's fighting on the street. Any sensible unarmed combat trainer - MMA, Muay Thai, karate, BJJ, etc.- will tell you there are things that work in the ring that won't work on the street and vice versa...
suprised hes in a tkd center
You shouldn't feel pain nor have to break bones to do this right. Yes some believe you should break the bones so they "grow back" stronger. Ever break the frame on a car? Did you weld it back and make it stronger? NO! They even believe in breaking the skin opened and still continue to hit with the open sores so they heal stronger. Sounds like it should work in time and with pain. The same results can be got in an easier thoughtful manner. It is all in the layers of training...I may write a book.
Didn't say they've never been injured. If you're into true old school fighting, Western or Eastern, you're going to break some bones eventually. You can arthritis from fighting with gloves too, so...Anybody in the fighting business charges for the same things. "Modern" fighters who don't do any of this stuff have DVDs and charge high amounts too, let's single out one group. There's people who do it cuz they love it, and those who do it for the money, that's in any profession.