The Tragic Story of the FAKE Hogwarts Express
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- This summer a new Harry Potter attraction has opened in Japan. This is the Warner Brother’s studio tour Tokyo - the making of Harry Potter. A new attraction that aims to take visitors behind the scenes of the harry potter films and features iconic sets from the series. And at the centrepiece of their exhibit, the Hogwarts Express train.
If this is all sounding familiar, that’s because this attraction already exists at the Warner Brother’s studio tour London. Complete with exactly the same sets. And confusingly, one of their centrepieces is also… the hogwarts express train.
When the Warner Brother’s studio tour opened in London, it’s appeal for fans was clear. It was an opportunity to visit the real sets that were used in the Harry Potter films. And that’s what makes the new Tokyo studio tour so weird. Aside from props and costumes, everything you see is a recreation. You’re not touring the studio they made harry potter, you’re not touring the sets from the films, and that train you’re taking a selfie with, is not the Hogwarts Express. That train has never been in a single frame of a Harry Potter film. But if you put them side by side, could you really tell the difference? As an imposter goes, it’s impeccable. Every detail is exactly the same. Re-creating a set is one thing, but how do you re-create a steam engine? What’s the story of this imposter train? Where has it come from, and why does it look so similar to the real Hogwarts express? Well it turns out these two trains share a tragic backstory. Join me as we delve into the story of the two Hogwarts Expresses.
The story begins in a scrapyard in Barry, Wales, 1965. Home to a huge locomotive graveyard. Hundreds of fine steam locomotives that in their hay day were transporting people all across Britain, left to rot. This is because during the 1950s and 60s, Britains railways were undergoing huge reform from a man called Dr Beeching, the chairman of the railways board. Beeching had been given the task of tackling 100 million pound a year losses on the railways, and he did this, by getting rid of most of them. Overall these changes resulted in the scrapping of over 20,000 locomotives and over 600,000 wagons. The mainline railway works couldn’t handle the sheer number of engines that needed scrapping which came to the benefit of private scrapyards, and one Welsh scrapyard in particular. Woodham’s Scrapyard in Barry, Wales, owned by Dai Woodham.
One such engine that found itself in this limbo between life and death, was GWR 5972 ‘Olton Hall’. This story could have ended there, with the locomotive eventually being melted down for scrap. But there was one thing that saved it. Greed.
The owner of the scrapyard, Dai Woodham, had discovered it was much easier and more profitable to scrap the wagons instead of locomotive engines. And the beauty of wagons is that there’s so many more of them. So Dai Woodham prioritised the scrapping of the wagons, leaving the locomotive engines in a kind of ‘to-do’ pile for afterwards.
One such locomotive that was saved was Olton Hall. In 1981 it was bought by a company called Procor in Wakefield and in the subsequent years it was restored and brought back to steam. It was later bought by a man named David Smith, the owner of West Coast Railways. However it’s rescue from scrap wasn’t the end of the story for Olton Hall, as it was to go on to become one of the most famous steam engines in the world. This remarkable change in fortunes came in July 2000 when warner brothers were looking for a train to film for their new film adaptations of the Harry Potter books. And that’s how it earnt it’s place as a centerpiece in the Warner Brothers studio tour in London. So when you see the engine in the London tour, that’s the actual engine from the films.
But what about that imposter engine in the Tokyo Studio tour, we still haven’t answered where that came from. The imposter is a steam engine known as number 4920 Dumbleton Hall. No connection to Dumbledore. In 1965 it too had found itself sent to the scrapyard. The exact same scrapyard in fact. Woodham’s scrapyard.
But, due to that same quirk of fate that wagons were cheaper to scrap, it Dumbleton Hall also survived long enough to be rescued, this time by the dumbleton preservation society, who launched a bid and helped it escape the scrapyard.
Dumbleton Hall itself went through a number of owners throughout the years until 2020 when a mystery buyer purchased it. This was later revealed to be David Smith, the same owner of Olton Hall. And after much speculation, it was revealed that Dumbleton Hall was to be renovated and made to look like it’s owner’s other engine, hogwarts castle. In 2023 it has now arrived in Japan and will sit in the Tokyo Studio tour as a stand in for it’s more famous sibling.
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GWR 4920 “Dumbleton Hall” is not any old Hall, she is the oldest surviving Hall class from Great Western Railway Swindon in 1929. There is a scandal in how she was deliberately sold by the Dumbleton Hall Preservation Society in 2020. It should have never left Britain. As the members got screwed over by the greedy chairman, the owner was secretive in disclosure and was duped it would remain, then returned to steam. Alas not end up rotting in Japan. Hopefully it comes home in time where it deserves to be.
To be fair she is under a heated roof and taken care of as an exhibit in Japan.
She is not rotting away just sleeping like Snowwhite till she is kissed back to life in the future.
And even is she remains in Japan as a working steamengine on the Japanese railnetwork (Japan loves typical British steam locomotives) its always better then a static display outside in the rain or parked with a tarp on, on a siding in Europe.
Are there any other engines from britan in Japan
@@caledonianrailway1233tons
@@caledonianrailway1233 Japan has after South Africa the biggest capetown gauge network (1067mm) Thats why Japan bought from Britain lots of locomotives for their network.
Remember Francis H. Trevithick the grandson of Richard Trevithick was hired to set up the Japanese railnetwork.
@@obelic71 I meant British designs
I wouldn’t call Dumbleton Hall an imposter, but rather a sibling to Olton Hall, considering they’re the same type of locomotive.
seriously, the real imposter is the one in Florida on a bizarre funicular setup
*Olton Hall
Imposter as not the loco in the film.
Nice presentation! Two small notes that are a bit on the technical side; both engines were built to the exact same specifications. These two are Great Western Railway, Hall Class Locomotives. Interestingly, in the franchise, the engine is classed as a Castle Class, hence the name Hogwarts Castle. Anyways both engines are essentially actual siblings of each other, with Dumbleton Hall being the older of the two. That said, it is also worth mentioning that Dumbleton Hall is the oldest surviving GWR Hall Class Locomotive.
I was surprised not one mention of the name “The Hall that thought it was a Castle” in the video
@@SonicTimewarp She took on an acting career at old age so it was not thinking just method acting 😉
@@obelic71it’s a nickname it’s gotten by rail fans
I don't think the engine is called a Castle class in the film dialogue other than having a name-plate "Hogwarts Castle" and I really think its only railfans who noticed that the Castle's were similar GWR engines.
If you really want to stick to the (frankly atrocious) Harry Potter "canon" version of where the locomotive came from it was an 1800s engine built in Crewe... which throws out any notion that somebody was intentionally trying to make it look like a GWR Castle instead of a GWR Hall since neither are locomotives from the 1800s or from any railroad which would have served Crewe when they were built.
@@jacoblyman9441 I think , aside from the film, Rowing wanted a locomotive that looked like those she had seen - the GWR Castles and Halls ( they share similarities to most folk).
For all those moaning about how terrible it is that these two locomotives are in movie set exhibits, would it be better that they be cut up and sold for scrap? Do you have the money to save all the locomotives in the scrapyard, restore them to their previous states, put them on heritage lines, and pay for their maintenance? If not, then be glad they are being saved. If so, then start buying, restoring, and maintaining them.
They were saved in the 1970s, completely unrelated to and indeed 20 years before Harry Potter was a twinkle in Joanne's eye. The problem here is a movie studio and an egomaniac pretty much just took two engines that *were* already preserved and are holding them hostage. All the steam engines that can be saved already have been, and outside paying the $50 million to get new ones built it's best to take care of the ones we still do have.
4:40 Even if the train in Tokyo wasn't used on the sets, it's still a pretty cool piece of old railroad history, and it's a miracle it was saved from being scrapped.
A lot of its class mates also made it to presivaton
It’s Railway!!! Not rail road
*railway history, not railroad. Britain had railways.
@@joshslater2426actually Britain used the term "railroad" first. In early years railway and railroad were both used in Britain.
@@jameswells6003 In the USA and Canada, the term railway is used sometimes as well as railroad, but railroad has definitely become the more popular description there. Some large railroad companies use the word railway in their official corporate names. Railroad is today not used generally in the UK, except when referring to the railways of America!
As a Rail Fan, I’m definitely amazed on how these two steam engines are able to escape scrap and be preserved for all to see. Even though one is a movie star, the other is taking the same mantle as its sibling. Although not a movie star, Dumbleton Hall should get some credit being the sibling of Olton Hall, and there’s not much an honor than that
It’s also called Dumbleton Hall while on a Harry Potter set, something has to be said about that
There are more "serious" impostors on the Hogwarts Express ride, a funicular for which two replicas of the Hogwarts express were created, notably they only properly recreated the front and left sides of the engine.
Australian here. Wife and I went to Warner Bros in London in 2018 and I was pleased to see the 'real' Hogwarts Express. I say real in inverted comas because back in 2011 we went to Universal Studios in Florida and the 'fat controller' looked me right in the eye and told me the locomotive we were standing in front of was the actual one used in the film. What he didn't know is that I'd been a train driver for 30 years and know a thing or two about locomotives. BTW, in 2018 and a week or so before we were in London, I missed the Jacobite train going over the Glenfinnan viaduct by about 30 seconds because the parking area at the monument was full and I had to park further afield and run for it.
It's a shame that these two locomotives will probably never run on a Heritage line or something like that but at least they're not scrapped, great video.
Actually, Universal Studio London’s contract with Olton Hall is almost up, and she would be able to run again if the contract isn’t renewed
Olton Hall's done heritage work before, and likely will do again in the future. Dumbleton Hall will not get such luck on Japanese rails.
@@MrJoeyWheeler Again though, it's only on loan/hire to Warner Bros and will be repatriated to the UK when the contract is up.
They took 4920
Can’t have shit on the great western
Also beeching wasn’t the bad guy, it was that damn Marple
Who was Beeching's father in law wasn't he, or some familial connection?
The real villain was the transport
minister Tom Fraser and successors in the Wilson labour government. Beechng just wrote a report on how inefficient the railways were and needed to modernized. If local areas had fought for their local lines there was a chance that they could have been saved, but most just went alone with closures.
Yes, Mr. Ernest Marples, who just happened to own a road building company.
What a strange coincidence, eh?
@@dancedecker Imagine the chances of that happening.
@mikeoliver437 I know. Amazing eh?
I was thinking to myself: "the easiest way to do it would be to get another GWR Hall", and so they did. Still a hell of a lot better that the bullshit they have in Orlando.
I may never have been a fan of Harry Potter, but I'm glad that those two engines were saved from a tragic fate of being scrapped. Even if they may never move from their places, it's better for them to be there, admired by fans of the books and movies, rather then sitting to rust in a scrap yard.
They were not rescued from scrap for the Harry Potter Tour, they were rescued from scrap by enthusiasts in the 1960/70's, restored to working condition and running on heritage railways. Hopefully, no harm will come to them and they will be able to return to steam one day. In the meantime, they will introduce a new generation of visitors to the magnificance of full scale steam locomotives.
@@chrisrand5185 Is there a shortage of steam stock in working order for all UK railways ? ( basically these two out but the newbuild ones for mainline tours sort of replace them + the kit of parts locos that are coming in, often with new built tenders so should be enough + the queue of awaiting restoration and 10 year cert overhauls )
@@highpath4776 I don't know if there is a shortage of locos. As you say, they are constantly being restored and repaired, so engines are being rotated, so today's working loco may be next year's out of service loco awaiting repair.
Just prior to 5972 Olton Hall being withdrawn from traffic for display at Warner Brothers Studio Tour in London, I got to travel behind 5972 on two final railtours from Preston to York in June and July 2014.
Curious the scrapyard that produced this train also produced the one that gave you that scar
Yer a tank engine, Thomas.
Lol 😂
4920 "Dumbleton Hall" was build at the Great Western Railway's Swindon Works in 1929. 5972 "Olton Hall" was build there as well in 1937. Baryy Scrapyard certainly never produced any engines.
@@RunawayTrain2502 lol
I think there are senses of the word produced that fit the context here but maybe you would have preferred “supplied”
Not too tragic and also not fake, but a nice story anyway.
As a train fan, it’s obvious to me that they used another member of the Hall class, but the story’s worse than I thought. I’d heard Dumbleton Hall had been sent to Japan, but I never figured out that they were going to make it a Hogwarts Express Doppelgänger.
But it is studio built so, you can say all of them are fake technically and that having them as a set they would have gotten damaged and repaired, so, the London tour may have fakes too. The train itself seen crossing the viaduct isn't the one in London either as that train is the Jacobite Express although the carriages are the real thing.
The Modernisation Plan pre-dated Beeching. ( though it did assume steam would last to the early 1970s ) Beeching drew up the Reshaping Plan, including investing in the "freightliner" container network of freight services.
That video is a long ass way of just saying ‘oh, it’s just another GWR Hall Class’…..😂
The oldest hall class
I remember seeing Olton Hall's stunt double parked up in a siding on the South Devon railway back in 2019. she was a sad looking sight with faded green paint and dulled metal work
Beeching gets a lot of grief for the cuts to railways but at the end of the day he was only carrying out the orders from his criminal bosses the government.
Thank you for this video! I'm a Harry Potter series' fan and it was great to know a bit about UK railway history as well. Watching a 9 min video, suddenly turned into reading about the UK heritage railway lines. It's wonderfull that thanks to the "Hogwarts Express" more people would know about this beautiful engines' origins.
Thanks! Yeah I definitely think the Hogwarts Express is a bit of a gateway drug for people to learn more about the railways!
this travesty just shows how these engines that are literal history are repainted and shipped away to japan to please some tourists for a couple of minuets and being pulled away from the heritage railways in britian that need engines like this. these 2 are one third left in existance. imagine restoring a car of only a few in exisance and putting years of time into it for someone to take it paint it red and shoot it in a movie and a set then shipping it to japan for a load of people to take a selfie with it and let it fall into disrepair
.
The biggest aesthetic tragedy to happen to the railways was getting rid of steam locomotives from service. They look so much better than big boxy diesels/electric engines.
Personally, I've always had a soft spot for the more older diesel and electric engines from the 50's to 90's, but they will never come close to the iconic steam engines that once dominated the rails before them. :]
I have a soft spot for one group of diesels and that is emds e and f units
you are looking at it from a sentimental standpoint. Aside from aesthetics, steam locomotives are inefficient (running costs, frequency, etc). For the average person, they couldn’t care less about what type of train it is, as long as it can transport them from A to B on time and quickly.
@@althafrafianto I’m aware nostalgia does play a part (I was a Thomas the tank engine kid) and also why I clarified aesthetic in my first comment. I’m aware electric trains are better for the environment and are generally faster.
@@althafrafianto
Steam technology was much improved in the 1970s and again in the 1990s. It is pretty competitive with diesel these days. The main issues are that it is perceived as outdated and museum railways are reluctant to upgrade their locomotives to modern standards.
It is easier to meet emission standards with steam locomotives.
I saw a video from a studio in USA, where they had made a total fake Hogwards Express. It could drive a small distance, and then had to reverse. But it had nothing to do with steam, just lookalike...
2 hall classes in perfect condition stuffed and mounted, sad.
It’s more like a gun on a gun rack you rarely use. They technically could get them back on tracks and get them moving without changing the engine itself, they’re just sat on display currently.
Dumbarton Hall was not in perfect condition, it had been awaiting a full overhaul for a LONG time and was looking tired. It would have taken 10+ years to bring back to service in a queue of other locos.
@@MrTumnus1987 yeah a 10+ year restoration would be waaaay better than being a Tourist trap in Japan.
Bloody absurd that they insisted they had to have an actual locomotive, when replicas can be constructed that are indistinguishable from the real thing (like for the Indiana Jones and Mission Impossible movies). Now there are two Halls incarcerated that will probably never steam again
Does it matter? Look at the locos in the National Railway Museum at York. Not every engine is meant to run. That fact that they exist at all is good enough for me.
@@sodorflubbs5000 yes it does matter. Two locos, one fully operational, that may perhaps run again but not for many years, and one that people paid to have preserved and restored, which is now on the other side of the world, due to the greed of a film company. But they give pleasure to millions, you might say? They don't have to be actual steamable locos to do that, a totally realistic replica could easily be produced
@@AndreiTupolev Both locos are on hire to Warner Bros and will be returned to David Smith when the hire agreement ends. The hire fees that WB are paying will go some way to paying for their next overhaul when the time comes.
Hi, this is an interesting video but please may I ask a question regarding the photo of 4920 Dumbleton Hall in it's preserved state that you used. The image clearly states copyright Mike Heath in the top corner, he happens to be my Dad and has no recollection of being asked for permission to use this. Please could you confirm how you came to use this image?
Good afternoon, you have now had 6 days to respond to this query. Please responds otherwise I shall be contacting RUclips over copyright infringement as you have used one of my Dads images without his permission. I look forward to hearing from you.
anything on the internet can be used by anyone haha
@@uktrains1740 used illegally. The owner of the images holds copyright.
I was at Buckfastletgh the day TUMBLETON HALL arrived to the crys of SHE WILL NEVER STEAM!!! They planted the small tree that grew in the tender and she slowly came back to life. We met again on the West Somerset and had rides behind. Abandoned back at Buckfastleigh was the last I saw. Later I put much effort into Westcountry WADEBRTDGE, THIS TOO GOT SOLD OUT FROM UNDER OUR FEET!!! Also 80064 many hours of help only to have her sent to The Bluebell!!! Today I do 5 inch gauge live steam and like many WILL NOT GO ANYWHERE NEAR VOULENTERRING ON ANY HERRITAGE RAILWAY. Shame when in the past my 4th Great grandfather knew George and Robert incredibly well. David and Lily.
Dai Woodham deserves a massive pat on the back for saving so many locos.
Beautiful presentation
Aside from GWR "Hall" Class 4920 "Dumbleton Hall" and "5972 "Olton Hall" 11 other "Halls" and 6 "Moddified Halls" (An improved version of the Hall Class) where preserved, most comming from the Woodhams Scrapyard.
Hall Class
4930 "Hagley Hall"
4936 "Kinlet Hall"
4942 "Maindy Hall" (As 2999 "Lady of Legend")
4953 "Pichford Hall"
4965 "Rood Ashton Hall"
4979 "Wootton Hall"
5900 "Hinderton Hall"
5967 "Brickmarsh Hall"
Moddifed Hall Class
6960 "Raveningham Hall"
6984 "Owsden Hall"
6989 "Wightwick Hall"
6990 "Witherslack Hall"
6998 "Burton Agnes Hall"
7903 "Foremake Hall"
do they still have their proper ID numbers
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
Rather unfair to refer to Olton Hall being saved due to "greed". It was a sound commercial decision for Dai Woodham to cut up the wagons first. That's simply good business. More to the point is that when preservation societies wanted to buy the engines back, he only charged them scrap metal prices rather than seeking to take a profit. Hence all the Barry engines eventually found homes even if some are being used as sources of spares as they are beyond useful repair.
He did charge them a bit more than scrap metal prices, but only because his sale agreement with BR meant that BR had to take a cut of the sale price if he sold them on. It was only in the 1980s when most of the locos had been moved on that BR finally relented and removed their cut.
@@RJSRdg Thanks, good point, what I meant to convey was that he was making no more money from the sale than he would have done if he had cut them up, so even with the extra levy he merely broke even (although I guess that it saved him the work of dismantling them).
As a Locomotive nut I would sooner see them in steam powering along a country line than stuck in the land of make- believe!😮💨😮💨😮💨
There isn't the money or resources to run every loco all the time. The hire fees that WB are paying for these two locos will go towards their next overhauls once the hire period ends.
Thank you very much for your efforts in making this fun fact.
At the risk of seeming a killjoy, surely both engines are “imposters” because the whole Potter/Hogwarts universe is imaginary; a very entertaining and engaging figment of an authors’ imagination. I have read and enjoyed the Potter books and will cheerfully take my grandchildren to the cinema or even to the “experiences” AS ENTERTAINMENT. The only “tragedy” that I see here is that a small proportion of people appear to be unable to distinguish the exercise of imagination from real life.
Now I’m going back to reading my technical manual for a Klingon warbird.😊
The one in London is the actual train used in the films
I worked on the railway here in Britain for nearly 50 years . And knew something of the inside story of the engines at Barry. A story that if you saw it in a movie you would not believe . When BR went over to diesel . As you rightly say, many of the steam locos were sent to Barry to be scraped. Then movements then started to preserve some of them , by small groups. Who then started collecting money to do so . The money was slow coming in and the engines were being cut up quickly . So they went to owner of the scrap yard . Explaining that they would buy them. But would he keep them to when they had the cash ? deals were struck . Nothing in writing, all on word of mouth and a handshake. Sometimes it took many years to collect the money . I do not know if this is true or no . But I was told one took at lest 20 years . In the mean time the diesels engines were slow coming into service . Believe it or not , BR bought back some of the old engines . that they had sold so cheaply years before. Had them renovated , goodness knows how much that cost ! And used them on freight trains . If you see an old photographs of a engine pulling wagons with a number crudely painted on the front , in white , it is one of these engines . It was not true that more money could be made scraping wagons and vans . There was a great deal more to be made from cutting up and selling steam engines .
I have never heard of BR buying back locomotive from scrap yards before. Do you have any reference for that? I thought the painted on numbers were locomotives that were about to be withdrawn, or had been mothballed in BR yards & bought back into service - but not once they had been sold to scrapyards. Perhaps these "painted number" locomotives received very minimal bit of work to get them back in service, but never extensively renovated that I have heard of.
I have always heard the tale that the wagons were easier to cut up, hence they concentrated on those rather than the engines which seems logical to me & can find no record of locos being cut up for a long time because of the wagon supply, rather than saving the locos for preservationists.
The locos were sold at scrap value, which considering that the man hours needed to cut up an engine wasn't needed when they were sold whole for preservation, means that it was actually financially beneficial for Dai to sell them whole. Two engines were cut up in 1980 to keep staff employed when the supply of wagons ran out & they were awaiting more. The last purchased locomotive left for preservation in 1990 which then left the famous "Barry 10", which by this point had become severely dilapidated in the salty sea air & from parts being taken - so much so they were seen as a such a monumental task to restore that no-one really wanted them. The last of the Barry 10 left in 2013 though several engines are still in storage locally & remain unrestored I believe.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on any of that ;D
BR didn't buy locos back from scrap. If you see crudely painted numbers it was because number plates had been removed, often stolen in the latter years of steam!
@@jameswells6003 I always wondered how often it was to prevent theft & how often it was *because* of theft ;)
@@alexfrance500 I think it's safe to assume it was a combination of the two!
@@alexfrance500but why take of the cast metal no plates. Brass name plates may be? But not the no plates if mothballed. Not heard of be buy ing back but a possible. There was also cakemoors of great bridge cutting up locks. Dont know what got saved from there? If there was any for preservation. What other scrap yards were there. In the country at the time ?? I only new cakemoors and dai woodhams at barry island. Shame .
"I never forget any locomotive i sell Mr. Potter, not a single one. It is curious that the locomotive graveyard, where the locomotive you ride to Hogwarts came from, gave another locomotive, just another one"
Pretty cool story!
I wondered how they came up with the engine number for the Hogwarts Express. Turns out it was the engine's real number. Cool. Great vid BTW.
Yes but when this engine finished it's life the shed plate on the front would have been in the eighties, e.g. 82B St. Philips Marsh. The number in the film is really interesting to me as a geeky trainspotter.
What is your problem?
It’s clear that these are “recreations”.
Almost nobody cares if it is the original, if it feels like the real deal.
And how much of the “original” sets are really original?
"If you put them side by side, could you really tell the difference?" well the one on the left has a LOT of brass/gold colors (front of train, wheels) where as the original one is black in those locations
Would have been a bit of cheeky fun to rename ‘Dumbleton Hall’ to ‘Dumbledor Hall’ around Halloween and in colours that reflect Albus Dumbledore; purple with silver trim, a nice contrast to the bright red of the coaches. Makes me wonder if the ‘Hogwarts Railways’ had other engines, coaches and even freight rolling stock? (Yes, yes. Wizards and witches with magic, blah blah blah.)
The Hogwarts railway is in-world a normal muggle branchline whose continuing existence and initial construction involves mind-control magic. According to the official encyclopedia of Harry Potter the Hogwarts station and the whole line to reach it were built overnight and a large scale manipulation spell was cast to make people ignore the fact that it showed up. I like to speculate that Dr Beeching had his mind controlled to avoid closing it in the 60's. So to answer your question No. there are no other "Hogwarts Railway" locomotives or stock. The wizards involved just let the railway continue as a normal muggle railway when they're not using it (Maybe it's a heritage railway nobody knows about)
5972 Olton Hall had run on the mainline in the Hogwarts livery but I believe when its boiler safety ticket ran out it wasn't overhauled and was put into the attraction. I saw the 5972 in 2014 at an open day and on mainline heading to it seen from 7.35 here ruclips.net/video/8T7diji6lF8/видео.html
As it is now the 'other' Hogwarts Express, GWR No. 4920 "Dumbleton Hall" is really more appropriately "Dumbledore Hall" as I now nickname it.
The question is , after being converted to static extractions, could they be refitted to run again or were they gutted for safety?
Great to see one of my photos used at 7:28 😁
I mean, i could distinguish which is which, the actual loco in London has a longer foot-plate, and doesn't have weirdly low buffers.
As a welsh person this is a huge fact lol in Barry there was people trying to save trains
Now they are trying to save their beautiful Country. www.youtube.com/@Welshpatriots
The movie-makers „preserved“ a hull, looking like a steam engine, put on a piece of track and gets its wheels moved by electric motors. This never ever is a steam engine anymore, without a real restauration to a working STEAM engine. Only if fire is heating the water in the boiler and the steam powers the wheels, it will be a restored steam engine again. Now, its simply a good made, piece of old, locomotive-like looking, metal, nicely painted, serving as selfie-background for people, who probably never had the chance, to hear, see and feel the power and „life“ in a working steam loco pulling a train on tracks.
Best place for a GWR loco. There are so many of them running anyway, these two acting as embassadors for their working brethren will possibly do as much as that "cursed" little blue engine - as in, give heritage railways future customers and volunteers.
"Oh Dr Beeching, what have you done?"
Thoroughly enjoyed your presentation. Unfortunately you showed a short clip of an American steam locomotive and passenger car.
😊
I’m sorry but I think people are being too sentimental about these engines. Not every engine can run in steam. Look at those in the National Railway Museum in York. It’s better that they are preserved and looked after than scrapped after the movies.
Also, does it matter that the train in Tokyo isn’t Olton Hall. If the public there get enjoyment out of it who cares.
Sure, I’m an ideal world all our engines would run, but it’s not an ideal world. Let’s be thankful they have a home.
If hogwarts castle is actually a hall class in which has socially transitioned into being a castle class, then this means that JK does say trans rights 🏳️⚧️
No, just no
Please stop picking on her for this. Everyone has opinions, so we should let Rowling say what she wants. A Hall being renamed as a Castle was more an ironic incident rather than a statement.
Much like a transgender person, it's doesn't make a difference if you call the Hall a Castle, you can change the name, paint it a different colour, but it will still be a Hall.
@@joshslater2426 are you seriously going on a transphobic rant against fucking steam engines? It’s a fucking joke.
At least theres a silver lining to this
King's Cross doesn't have a platform 9¾ (as far as we know), but it DOES have a Platform 0
Olton Hall shouldn't even be in that maroon, let alone this innocent bystander.
Is Dumbleton Hall still in working order?
the hogwarts castle be like: hi im a castle class
fans: NO YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE A HALL CLASS
Alton Hall also survives in the grounds of Alton Towers theme park.
Great video, the music in the background was super mixed and interesting facts.
The docks of South Wales, including Newport, Cardiff, Barry and Swansea, exported huge quantities of coal in the steam age, mined in the valleys to the north of these coastal settlements. This was some of the best quality coal in the world and powered the ships of the British Royal Navy once they had moved away from sail. Although at the time it was still used for electricity generation, the quantity of coal extracted fell inexorably throughout the 1960s and 70s, just at the same time as all these steam locomotives were being taken out of use and sent to scrapyards such as Woodham's. The steady rundown of the coal industry, which culminated in the great miners strike of the 1980s, resulted in the constant stream of thousands of redundant coal wagons to the scrapyards that helped keep the locomotives safe from Dai Woodham's gas axe for so many years.
It wasn't wholly down to Beeching.
The withdrawal of steam was well overdue and should have been instigated at least a decade earlier. Most European railways started in the early 1950s. Beeching's report was just that; A report. It was the British Railways Board that implemented most (but not all) of the recommendations, not Beeching.
Steam could - and should - have remained in operation for at least 20 years if not longer than it did.
Beeching was forced to make the report he made because the Minister of Transport at the time had a conflict of interest in the form of huge financial interests in road construction companies.
The 9Fs, the greatest steam engines built in Britain, had a lifespan that would have kept them in service as late as the 90s while still doing efficient work. But they were cut short by the "modernisation" plan, which - and I cannot emphasise this enough - was an enormous disaster that ultimately destroyed railway infrastructure where it was needed, the effects of which we are still feeling today.
About half the steam fleet was due for withdrawal. The other half could perfectly well have been kept going until the 1990s, and with upgrades, some should still be running, such as most of the BR Standards.
@@physiocrat7143
The amount of manpower and therefore the cost of keeping the steam locomotives running was phenomenal.
BR really had no alternative other than to embrace Diesel, Diesel Electric and Electric.
Take the Railway Works in places like Darlington, Doncaster, Swindon and the rest. Sadly, tens of thousands of folk were laid off but it just shows how much money and resources steam needed. 😥
@@MrJoeyWheeler
Yes, Ernest Marples 👿was an absolute charlatan. Agreed.
However, the amount of manpower and therefore the cost of keeping the steam locomotives running was phenomenal.
BR really had no alternative other than to embrace Diesel, Diesel Electric and Electric.
Take the Railway Works in places like Darlington, Doncaster, Swindon and the rest. Sadly, tens of thousands of folk were laid off but it just shows how much money and resources steam needed. 😥
@@andypandy9013
Steam was relatively labour intensive in the 1950s because the real improvements were not made until after the 1970s, including light oil firing, producer gas combustion systems for coal, high pH water treatment, higher temperature superheating, pre-heating, the Lempor exhaust system, and small detail improvements.
There was little serious interest in improving the technology except in Argentina and South Africa, and railway managers perceived it as inherently old fashioned. The latter is still an issue. Rolling stock which could perfectly well be refurbished is replaced when it still has 20 years of life in it. The mark 3 hauled and HST trailer cars are an example of the waste that goes on.
2:12 because they're both a member of the same class 💀
I think they should both be brought out of the studios, brought back to steam and tour the UK's heritage railways, as they need all the help to get through more uncertain times.
But what about the trains at the Wizarding World parks? Are they real restored trains like these ones or fabricated from scratch for the parks?
I believe they're built from scratch. Because they don't actually have engines, they're on a winch I believe.
The ones at Universal Studios Orlando are not originals and operate in a similar fashion to cable cars, albeit elongated to accommodate additional cars. The one in Universal Studios Hollywood is a replica.
Come and see Pitchford Hall at Epping Ongar Railway 😊
That's the movie business for you. Nothing is real. The sets are only built. The original sets for filming weren't even in the building where the exhibition is as that wasn't even built, for the first 4 films. So making an exhibition in Tokyo is just like making another film. It's still built by the same carpenters , modelmakers, special effects technicians, costume makers and all the other trades related to film making. I worked on some of the episodes as a propmaker and was pleased to see some of my props in the display but most things have been remade over and over again.
So what, exactly, is the tragedy here? Other than that these two locomotives will likely never be in steam again.
I mean the ‘real’ one isn't in London either 🤷♀
@@dalebrunker6571 I was kinda getting at it actually being in Hertfordshire, but yeah that as well - there is also the question of why a Hall-class would be leaving KGX to head to Scotland.
I guess one could argue that ‘Hogwarts Express’ was the name of the service (like ‘Highland Chieftain’), not the engine, and so in a way either engine is just a ‘real’ (well, other than only one of them being actually seen on camera)
@@dalebrunker6571interesting, I hadn't heard about that. Not that is makes overly much more sense of course.
@@dalebrunker6571it’s olton not Ultan
In canon, the wizards supposedly stole her from crew works in 1830. Which raises more questions, such as, why did Crewe have a GWR engine, and why did they have a class that didn't exist till the 1920s. And also Crewe works wasnt a thing then.
In addition, turns out she meant the station to be Euston, though doesn't answer why a GWR engine is leaving from there.
When did GWR mixed traffic locos ever depart atvthe head of an express train from Kings Cross?
Or, is that part of the surreal nature of the fantasy kids series of films.
“I’m a what?”
With more a business head rather than a keyboard warrior railway enthusiast view
Calling it an imposter is a bit strong. Okay it's not the original but I can imagine 5972 is going to live it's entirely life now in the studio so potentially that will get switched out.
You could say the same about various railways owning an engine that they paint blue for use on Day Out with Thomas weekends. They may never have seen a single piece of on screen time as Thomas but that doesn't detract from the thrill of seeing it. Even more so with various Thomas actually in some cases being very different to the on screen character.
Where as the two Hogwarts Castles being siblings is actually far more convincing and to the majority of visitors it is simply a Red Steam engine with the right name and number.
A lot of people are slatting it's move to Japan I can see the controversy but bottom line it is undercover which is preserving the history of the engine and being enjoyed by families. Families are the single most important thing in the preservation of steam engines. If families get to see and enjoy steam trains they will fuel the excitement of the children who may grow up and want to get involved.
In my view it is summed up by another film franchise tag line.
It's all for the greater good, the greater good!
Been the one in London it was fantastic!
We would say the locos were facing the cutter's torch, nit the furness. as they would have been cut up before melting down. Sadly some in Woodham Rbiothere's Barry island scrpyard were cut up when the original sales covenant that they could not be sold on for further use, only scrapped, was still in force.
Dai Woodham also scrapped a small number of locos in later years to deter timewasters.
@@RJSRdg I expect by then they had been stripped of many parts.
i mean they are the same locomotive class, both being GWR Hall classes since multiple of all steam locomotive classes existed
Not entirely a fake, it's an authentic same class of locomotive and mk1 coaches, even if not used in the film.
4:18 WTF has this locomotive got do with British Railways?
At least Japan put effort into their train, when Warner Bros movieworld had a Harry Potter exhibit they just painted a C17 red
I was under the impression that the London studio's engine was a mock up and not a real working engine. Can anyone enlighten me?
So it's Olton Hall and Dumb-Olton Hall!! 😂
Even though the train and the sets aren't the actual ones, because they've been recreated so faithfully, it's still cool to see them. In the end, does it really matter?
The sets still exude the same magic charm, the rest is quite irrelevant imho...
But what about the copy in the States same
Hold on - many of the settings in HP were not 'sets' they were real exteriors - Christchurch Oxford, Alnwick Castle and parts of Ledenhall Market in London.
What about the one in the US?
Is there anyway I can contact you?? I have a Hogwarts built in Minecraft and I REALLY would appreciate your feed back
The production qualities of this documentary is stunning, if you aren't a pro filmmaker, go and be one!
Thank you, appreciate that!
They are both Great Western Halls, so what does it matter. Dumbleton Hall should never have left the UK. And they are NOT trains - they are locomotives.
ermmm I think you need to get your facts right about why steam was being ousted from BRs railways. It was nothing to do with Beaching at all.Steam was very much on its way out before his arrival.
What about the one in Florida?
Well one locomostive can from the South Devon Railway.. so its an authentic locomotive of the same type. the original "Hogwarts Express" is in london mate
idk, even if it isn't the "actual" prop used in the film, who cares? it looks exactly like the one that was, and you saw it in a film, so what's the difference? for all intents and purposes, it's the one that was in the film.
A locomotive is not a train. The locomotive hauls a train of wagons of coaches. A bridal gown can be called a train.
It is easy to tell which is the inposter it is inpossible to get the exact same british railway red if not done by people who know the exact mix also if u look very carefully close up on the rods and some external parts u can see distict numbers that can identify the locos even if they have been covered up
You can't rely too much on the numbers stamped on components. When a loco visited the works parts were taken off to be refurbished and parts of the same class could be put on to avoid delay getting the loco back into revenue earning traffic. Look on any loco and you can see different numbers on the parts. Scrapped engines live on.
@@bassetdad437the frame carries the number, the boilers and tenders were swapped around so the one say when built was almost certainly not the same one when withdrawn
Why did you choose ai voice for this? Super interested as noticed your other videos dont have it when i clicked a few.
Sorry for the late reply. It was an experiment because I've always wondered if my own voice is off putting for people. The problem is the experiment was successful because this video did quite well so now I feel like I've learnt the wrong lesson from it hahah
@@hogwartsexpert Thanks for the reply! Hmm, the title and thumbnail were also ALOT more catchy than previous videos though, so hard to say. I do prefer your voice though.
Isn't the Hogwarts express in Britain still doing trains on a preservation railway to this day?
No as the video says the actual Hogwarts Castle is in the UK Studio tour. What you may be thinking of is the Jacobite that runs between fort William and Mallaig in Scotland over the Glenfinnan viaduct that's used in Harry Potter. It's constantly called the Hogwarts Express by the media.
@@mattlander9119 Thanks for clarifying!
Not currently. Olton Hall did run for a while, even going on display at the National Railway Museum, but has been placed in the studio tour for nearly a decade. Whether the studio will retain further ownership or not remains to be seen.
In the mean times, many other locomotives have masqueraded as the Hogwarts Express on preserved lines due to the appeal it has from its film appearances.
@@joshslater2426 The studio do not own Olton Hall, it is on hire to them.
So what about the one in Florida at Universal studios, where did that engine come from? And I don't think any cares if it was in the movies it's a amazing Replica i've seen both of them and the one in florida .
At least it's a genuine vintage steam locomotive (unlike the one in Florida).