Terry was a top of the line instant offense micowave Johnson type guy for 13+ years and had a 3-4 year period where he was borderline AS, 38% career 3 point shooter. Come on
they say these things but they forget mix up or lie a lot with the stats and info in front of them rehearsed..its embarassing..posey won two titles as a top 6 guy in his career...miami and boston and was solid in denver new orleans and good in memphis for years ...this just shows how little these guys actually know which is how artest falls to 11 terry to 10 behind ak47 and wally z?..like what?...rip is only 4th not 2?..marion top 2?..really?...I'm taking posey over no defense wally and maggette any day of the week twice in a big playoff game with all the marbles at stake..posey bailed out the heat and celtics multiple times...I never seen wally or maggete do shit in the playoffs in a big moment....they shrunk posey rose to the occasion ..how is terry 10th?...what is going on here
“[insert name here] would thrive in the current nba given the pace of play and his 3 point shooting. I could even see him working in a small ball lineup.”
Yea, they say it too much but this class does have a ton of "gadget players" or "jack of all trades" whatever you want to call them. Marion, Kirilenko, Odom, all of those guys are great examples; they scored without needing the ball, they rebounded very well, Marion wasn't a great passer but AK and Odom both could. And of course, all could shoot the three and have the length to play the 4 or 5 in today's NBA. I think for these three guys that statement is valid.
Yea manu was hard. Kobe would speak highly of him. Him as a focal point on any other team he’s numbers pts,reb, and assist numbers woulda blown up. Dude was playing with 2/3 other hall of famers his whole career and still made a hall of famer out of himself.
manu was the best player in the 2000 and 1999 drafts at worst 2nd had the best career of anyone in either draft and we can throw in 2002 as well and only amare and brand have real cases over him sorry to marion but he was never much better than manu like brand and amare at their best were...and I still say manu had better career than either brand of amare albeit due to injuries...manu was argueably the best player over 3 drafts and he was chosen 56th or whatever...now in 01 parker may have been slightly better...but I think pau is the best player from 01 then parker so over the course of 4 years many parker pau and amare are probably the 4 best players of those drafts and its insane that one of them were top 8 picked ...the gms back then should be fired
Every great player has their down moments. He made for 2013 in both 2014 series against OKC and Miami. I'd take Manu's peak over Marion's peak easily. Better shooter, slasher, passer and higher IQ. His stats would've been better if Pop's coaching style didn't restrict minutes compared to other teams.
@@waxl121 Webber was a geat player who was the top performer on 55 to 60 win teams when healthy. He's borderline, but only because he was hampered by injuries, but at peak, he was good enough to be among the all time greats at his position. Jamison was a stats compiler who was, at best, a 4th option on a mid tier playoff team. There is no comparison between them, really. It's also not the NBA HOF, it's the Basketball HOF; Webber was also groundbreaking at the college level, while Jamison is considered a player who never came close to living up to his college potential. There is absolutely no comparison here.
@@dataslul The comparison is 2 players that will be brought up over and over for the HOF, but ultimately won't make it(and shouldn't). Not comparing anything other than that. They're both fringe. To your point on Jamison; he was on a terrific UNC team(with Vince) and won the Naismith player of the year. He did plenty in college. Not sure what you're on about.
Ginobili had his own team he’s an perennial all star who can give u 20-25 5 and 5 plus 1.5-2 steals. I mean I saw a stat where over like a 6 year stretch amongst west all star guards where he was top 2 in per for every one of those 5-6 years or so while playing 6th man minutes behind Duncan and Parker. Plus he’s clutch af against a plethora of west titans. He is easily a top 10 shooting guard all time as is and one of the greatest intangibles ever while being pretty darn skilled and a very solid defender.
Odom was smoking weed almost every day in the mid-00's. He would look like PIppen one game and have 2 points and 5 rebounds the next. And watch the candy video btw.
The guy put up 5x5. How many players in NBA history could do that? At 22 he somehow led the 2003/04 Jazz to the winning record while having Arroyo as his second best player for most of the season. That team literally had an Arroyo-DeShawn Stevenson-AK-Jarron Collins-Greg Ostertag starting line-up. I mean, Sloan was a great coach - but this is insanity and a testament to how good AK-47 really was. Taking Szczerbiak over him is insulting tbh
Man... this draft is so underrated! sure, not too many top dogs... but SOOO MANY good ass players, alot of them great pieces in championship winning teams.
the fact chris andersen was left for the 16th pick speaks to how shit the rest of the picks after him are at 17 onwards ...like seriously the 17th best guy nba wise might be jeff foster then kenny thomas then francisco elson and then at 20 gordan giricek who had literally one good playoff game in his career....its bad after that like horrifyingly bad
Ginobili should be #1. Dude averaged 30 minutes only twice in his entire career. His unselfishness coming off the bench will always make him one of the most underrated players.
Manu played with a lot of talent and one of the the best coaches...if he was your best player from 04-14 your team isn't making the playoffs...02-04 manu as your best guard is leading you to the lottery as well...
Manu's advanced stats are insanely good. Like top 10 in BPM every year for a 6-7 year stretch good. He didn't get the counting stats because he gave up minutes in Pop's system and took a crazy bench role, but he was a really efficient scorer. Was top 15 for a 4-year stretch as a guard in True Shooting %. Is currently ranked 74th in True Shooting%, but again, he did it as a guard. He played with an all-time great, but I think Manu was a hidden superstar for the Spurs. You don't win 4 chips without a really good second option.
@@sacramentofoodforesthe’s second to me. His peak was higher than Ginobilis, but Ginobili had the better career. Marion was the second/third banana on the suns and they couldn’t win a ring. Ginobili won two rings as the third banana. I know it’s not all about rings, but that’s what separates this argument to me.
Yeah as much as I enjoyed the Stevie Franchise experience, Odom was an order of magnitude more relevant and Odom won a lot while Francis was a tank commander on the Knicks in what should've been his prime.
Fabricio Piotto both are candidates so.. Marion has already been a nominee, So he will likely get in eventually. You trying to defend against my personal pick doesn’t change anything. Ginobli is the better talent but I’m still taking Marion. He’s easier to build around. This isn’t a convo about who’s a hofer, it’s about who would be drafted first. As a scout, Marion would be the more enticing pick, and picking him wouldn’t be wrong regardless of if manu is better. That’s like taking ray Allen over AI or Kobe. Can’t go wrong. Still an all time great regardless.
+1 dude could have been special if he had *that dog* in him 🤔🤔 The fact that he never developed his right hand is evidence that he was cool with just being "pretty good" & cashing checks 🤷🏾♂️😪🤷🏾♂️😪
As a clipper fan odom was such a tease . He had so much talent . Got a tripple double , all rookie like 16 and 7 numbers . Then also two drug suspesions , missed a bunch of games and never worked on his shot , right hand or got fit .
I thought they've forgotten Artest The correct order: 1 - Manu Ginobili (imagine if they gave him the freedom like Luka has) 2 - Shawn Marion 3 - Elton Brand 4 - Ron Artest 5 - Baron Davis 6 - Andrei Kirilenko 7 - Rip Hamilton 8 - Lamar Odom 9 - Steve Francis 10 - Jason Terry 11 - Andre Miller 12 - Wally Szcerbiak 13 - Corey Maggette 14 - James Posey 15 - Raja Bell
Ron Artest should’ve gone waaayyyy higher he can easily be better version of PJ tucker on a small ball team. And in his prime was able to Put the ball on the floor. If the palace brawl never happened would’ve been an mvp candidate that year
Chris Manu was a career sixth man, the only reason he has respect is was because he had that role anywhere but San Antonio hes a mediocre to above average guard
@@rambaral1698 you clearly didnt watch him play then. If he was on another team he would have run the show. Regular above avg guards don't lead their country to gold over the USA. Go back and watch him play in his prime.
They have a point because Marion was more versatile and arguably more valuable to any team out there. Manu is better offensively but defense, rebounding, hustle - The Matrix all the way.
Regardless on when Manu was coming, taking Marion over him is ridiculous. Spurs vs Suns was a great matchup and they played against each other multiple times. Manu’s BB IQ was so much higher that the comparison is silly, and last time I checked the Suns with Marion never won the last game of the season.
This is a very interesting draft. Not much for number one franchise guys, but lots of depth and variety of different types of players. Even down to the role players.
AK-47 is being CRAZY underrated here. Trust me, google the advanced stats. He basically was a top 10 player in the NBA who just played in a small market before anyone cared to measure how much he was impacting winning.
Playing with pop parker duncan robinson kawhi...I would think so....but it would be nice to see him run his own offense be a top 2 option for a decade and also not be a 6th man
@@razkable He was the man in Europe. Won triple crown and Mvp for every league he played in. He was the man in the national team. Won olympics gold medal and beat US national team en route to the championship. Won everything many times over in the NBA. Also averaged 20 ppg off the bench in the slowest era of basketball history in his prime. There is zero doubt in my mind he would have been a 27-30 ppg guy being a franchise player, and really makes you think if he is the 3rd best SG of all time.
I saw this draft in person. I remember the crowd kept booing David Stern for know reason. After he announced the last pick in the first round he said with a sarcastic laugh " thank you for your hospitality!"
Or it's a bad choice. Doesn't he go before Jason Terry and Wally Szerbiak? Or maybe they are counting mental health. He did destroy one franchise (Pacers).
99 is a low-key amazing draft class, but with Artest you really have to balance out how amazing he can be when he is focused and what would have happened if there was the same emphasis on mental health 20 years with the fact that he was a terrifying wildcard when he was playing. So drafting him in the late lottery-mid teens seems like the right place for a "high risk, high reward" pick.
Elton Brand was a really good player that gets overlooked because of how stacked his position was during the 2000s, especially in the West. He would have made more all star teams and all NBA teams but his career intersected with Duncan and KG and Dirk.
Webber and STAT as well intertwine with him out West + the Clippers were awful for so long.... in today's game he'd be a bear perfect small-ball 5, similar to what Serge Ibaka is for Toronto but better.
@@codyssmith73 Yeah, he'd thrive as a center today. And it was bad for both Brand and the Bulls that they traded him, especially to the Clippers. He would have put up numbers anywhere, but doing it for the Clippers back then was a waste. Had he stayed on the Bulls he makes more all star teams, and you pair him with some of those decent draft picks they made like Deng and Noah and some of those shooters like Gordon and Hinrich and that's a 50-win team that can make some noise in the playoffs.
Better ReDraft (? For injury Concerns or character issue) Ginóbili?/Marion/Brand? Hamilton/Davis?-Kirilenko/Odom? Artest? Terry Francis?/Sczcerbiak/Maggette Miller Bell/Posey Bender? Honorable Mentions Anderson Giricek
“In my dreams I imagine Ron Artest and Bob Sura playing together anyway” Can’t argue with that, even if it ruins my dream of Prime KG paired with Artest
Myung Bak Lee true but they also do dumb shit like not induct Chris Webber who is supposed to be a sure shot hall of famer. Dude’s been retired since 2008 and still not in..
Leo Kizzo Webber is not sure fire. Just because of his name people would think that. But if u take a look at his resume, it’s very light. He’s a slip in. Injuries took a lot of his year away a from him. If anything, he should only get in because they lowered the standards by letting tmac get in. But if they were more strict on their standards, he wouldn’t not be a first ballot guy by any means
Starting off the reasons for choosing Marion over Ginobili with "he was on some LEGENDARY Suns teams" is wild. He was the third best player on those teams, and Manu was the second best player on the teams that killed them and won championships in the same era. The what-ifs for Manu are "how deep of a playoff run could a team centered on Ginobili go? Could they contend with the right pieces around him?"; the Marion what-ifs are "if he shot 3s better than 33% for his career, could he help a team win a championship?" Manu accomplished the Marion what-ifs in real life. Y'all either way over or under thought this.
Consistent theme so far all the quality scoring guards have been slighted and undervalued so far. In this era all those guys would’ve been even bigger monsters (AI, B Diddy, Franchise)
Odom is a favorite of mine. He was ultra talented! He just was not 100% focused at times. But he had all the skills plus the size. Manu should be # 1 . There was one season where he was actually regarded higher than Kobe (at least in Fantasy Leagues) . The dude killed the Team USA by himself.
Marion over ginobili just shows how underrated manu was and still is. Unselfish guy, could have been a 25 6 and 6 guy on most teams but sacrificed and came off the bench and won 4 NBA titles. Marion is really good, had a fantastic 2006 season in particular but Manu is the guy here.
Honestly,Marion at number 1 is a bad pick. Marion was a good player,sometimes even flirted with great but when you are going number 1,and you don't have the guy yet,then you absolutly have to take a guy who can create the big shot. Manu,if you just look at his stats was not a superstar,but give him freedom,put him in a James Harden type of solution,let him control the team from the start of his career and you would get a 25 points per game player 5-6 asissts 5 rebounds etc. Dude was great. He showed it in the euroleague before NBA,he showed it at Olyimpis and every time his number was called with the Spurs. Manu is easly number 1 pick. Great teammate on top of that,you can put him as teh face of the franchize,role model,plays defense,hustles etc. He just had it. Eeasy choice. Also Artest that low ? But man,Marion number 1 pick ? Wtf is wrong with Simmons.
3pt shooting is the most important thing in the world... until they *totally ignore it* when they overvalue Andre Miller 🤨🤨 (Career 21% 3pt shooter) The lack of logical consistency is staggering. PS. Wally over Artest is just ridiculous
This draft is one of the most underrated, because it doesn't have a number 1 guy and not really a number 2 either (barring Gino who was 2b with Parker and maybe Elton Brand for a few years). But you've got 11 great guys with either a very good peak (Francis, Odom, Kirilenko, Maggette) or quite long careers of being good contributors to good teams (Terry, Miller) or both (Ginobili, Marion, Brand, Artest, Hamilton) I don't understand why Wally S. was picked before these guys.
There must be some research that shows that people are more likely to click on the thumbnail if the people in it are smiling. Click on the Ringer and look at all of the thumbnail pictures. While you're at it, go look at the all the smoke podcast thumbnail pictures. They make sure to grab a shot of the participants with a big cheesy grin on their face if possible.🤔
At first when I saw the title I thought they were rehashing some 6th man of the year awards or something lol. It's apparent this wasn't a top heavy draft. Not to say Odom, Marion, Ginobli, etc. weren't good players, they fit their roles very well!
Corey Maggette was a stud, I think he was early wave juicer in the NBA? Body broke down super fast super early like his tendons couldn't handle. Idk anything behind the scenes just speculation.
If only he learned the three ball earlier in his career like he had in golden state..put peak psychical bounce speedy baron with the experienced crafty savy baron mentally from his later prime years and you have a superstar pg on the level of peak cp3
Not a top heavy draft, but damn was this a more loaded draft than I remembered it being. The discussions from about 5-12 were very debatable because of how close the players were.
They keep talking about guys playing in the wrong era, but kept picking other guys over LaMar Odom lol. I know he had his off court problems, but imagine Lamar Odom playing in this era. He'd be similar to Ben Simmons
If there is any draft where we can say, "(player X) would be a great center in a small-ball lineup in today's NBA" it is this draft. Odom, Marion, Kirilenko; those three could hit triples, rebound, and had the length to good play defense. It is something said way too often but in the case of these guys it is true.
The andre miller Clippers story makes sense when you think he had to deal with Donald Sterling and then he argued with George Karl cause Karl wouldn't put iguodala on steph which ended up costing them the series.
1. Manu 2. Marion 3. Brand 4. Baron 5. Odom 6. Francis 7. Rip 8. Artest (on talent) 9. Kirilenko 10. Terry 11. Miller 12. Maggette 13. Sczerbiak 14. Posey 15. Raja Don't @ me
4:20 - The reason Manu was the 57th pick wasn't because he wouldn't be coming until a few years, it's because he was an unknown at that time, nobody knew who he was. The reason the Spurs drafted them was because in 1997, the Spurs GM randomly saw him play in Australia and he was impressed by his skill. In 1999 the Spurs had a 57th pick that they didn't care about cause it was such a low pick, so the GM remembered Manu and decided to draft him.
I’m a die hard spurs fan but I’m not bias either …but we don’t know Manu is Manu without the spurs /pops allowing him to be himself…but this can be said about a lot of players
Men you guys are forgeting some important stats for those players. Artest won defensive player of the year and Andre miller is 11 all time jn assist (which is crazy). Id hace taken them higher.
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
I agree with most of the picks but Szczerbiak over Kirilenko, Terry, and Artest is outrageous
Brandon Onda Szezerbiak is just shitty Korver
Artest a former defensive player of the year not in top ten is outrageous on its own.
Alex Capitan Armendariz They’re probably taking his baggage and poor FG% into account though. He wouldn’t work in a lot of the team environments.
Terry was a top of the line instant offense micowave Johnson type guy for 13+ years and had a 3-4 year period where he was borderline AS, 38% career 3 point shooter. Come on
They're definitely not doing this by career anymore.
Take a drink every time bill mentions having clipper tickets
I was about to comment this lmao
Or says they’re ahead of their time
they say these things but they forget mix up or lie a lot with the stats and info in front of them rehearsed..its embarassing..posey won two titles as a top 6 guy in his career...miami and boston and was solid in denver new orleans and good in memphis for years ...this just shows how little these guys actually know which is how artest falls to 11 terry to 10 behind ak47 and wally z?..like what?...rip is only 4th not 2?..marion top 2?..really?...I'm taking posey over no defense wally and maggette any day of the week twice in a big playoff game with all the marbles at stake..posey bailed out the heat and celtics multiple times...I never seen wally or maggete do shit in the playoffs in a big moment....they shrunk posey rose to the occasion ..how is terry 10th?...what is going on here
@@matt9546Or says that he likes their game
Y’all know Bill Simmons had clippers season tickets??
Kirbystare1992 this is good
Underrated joke.
First I'm hearing of it.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Damn I never knew bill simmions had season tickets for the Clippers 🤔🤔🤔🤔
“[insert name here] would thrive in the current nba given the pace of play and his 3 point shooting. I could even see him working in a small ball lineup.”
TJ Mccarty Lavar Ball
If you played his career 10 times
Yea, they say it too much but this class does have a ton of "gadget players" or "jack of all trades" whatever you want to call them. Marion, Kirilenko, Odom, all of those guys are great examples; they scored without needing the ball, they rebounded very well, Marion wasn't a great passer but AK and Odom both could. And of course, all could shoot the three and have the length to play the 4 or 5 in today's NBA. I think for these three guys that statement is valid.
😂
ginobli 1 alll day
Absolutely correct. Manu is one of the most clutch players in nba history.
Yea manu was hard. Kobe would speak highly of him. Him as a focal point on any other team he’s numbers pts,reb, and assist numbers woulda blown up. Dude was playing with 2/3 other hall of famers his whole career and still made a hall of famer out of himself.
Manu wins a gold vs Duncan and AI with a bunch of cab drivers off the bench . And Ron artest was top 5 in mvp like in 06
manu was the best player in the 2000 and 1999 drafts at worst 2nd had the best career of anyone in either draft and we can throw in 2002 as well and only amare and brand have real cases over him sorry to marion but he was never much better than manu like brand and amare at their best were...and I still say manu had better career than either brand of amare albeit due to injuries...manu was argueably the best player over 3 drafts and he was chosen 56th or whatever...now in 01 parker may have been slightly better...but I think pau is the best player from 01 then parker so over the course of 4 years many parker pau and amare are probably the 4 best players of those drafts and its insane that one of them were top 8 picked ...the gms back then should be fired
All respect to Marion, helluva player, but they disrespected Ginobili really hard. Well, spent his whole NBA career with the Spurs...
This draft class is so underrated. I would say Manu is the best player in this class so he should be #1 (he's my fav athlete too lol).
Manu had the most decorated career but Shawn Marion at his peak was better
SaiyanZ3 He cost the spurs a title in 2013
Manu at his peak won 2 gold medals as the guy
Every great player has their down moments. He made for 2013 in both 2014 series against OKC and Miami. I'd take Manu's peak over Marion's peak easily. Better shooter, slasher, passer and higher IQ. His stats would've been better if Pop's coaching style didn't restrict minutes compared to other teams.
Lmao best is your best season and nobody was better than brands 06 season
What a draft for versatile players in Ak47 Shawn Marion and Lamar Odom
ron artest
Sam Marram big Ron was nice
And manu and artest
The Swiss Army Knife draft. AK47 was a fantasy god.
Next draft will be interesting considering many consider it the worst class ever
I can’t wait. It probably won’t change much.
Tremayne Williams I think he’s talking the video though
2001 draft wasn't much better either
Kenyon Martin draft right?
@@nasholston5112 much better, better than 2002, 2004, 2006, 2005
Please stop saying Antawn Jamison will be in the HOF.
I agree w where ya comming from but its the freakn nba seems like everyone with padded numbers gets in
Lol never
Webber and Jamison are fringe entrants. They may make it in a weak year but should not make it otherwise.
@@waxl121 Webber was a geat player who was the top performer on 55 to 60 win teams when healthy. He's borderline, but only because he was hampered by injuries, but at peak, he was good enough to be among the all time greats at his position. Jamison was a stats compiler who was, at best, a 4th option on a mid tier playoff team. There is no comparison between them, really. It's also not the NBA HOF, it's the Basketball HOF; Webber was also groundbreaking at the college level, while Jamison is considered a player who never came close to living up to his college potential. There is absolutely no comparison here.
@@dataslul The comparison is 2 players that will be brought up over and over for the HOF, but ultimately won't make it(and shouldn't). Not comparing anything other than that. They're both fringe. To your point on Jamison; he was on a terrific UNC team(with Vince) and won the Naismith player of the year. He did plenty in college. Not sure what you're on about.
Ginobili had his own team he’s an perennial all star who can give u 20-25 5 and 5 plus 1.5-2 steals. I mean I saw a stat where over like a 6 year stretch amongst west all star guards where he was top 2 in per for every one of those 5-6 years or so while playing 6th man minutes behind Duncan and Parker. Plus he’s clutch af against a plethora of west titans. He is easily a top 10 shooting guard all time as is and one of the greatest intangibles ever while being pretty darn skilled and a very solid defender.
They're talking like Odom was a problem during his career when the craziness happened when he retired
Agreed. I would have taken Odom 4th over Rip Hamilton easily
I’d have paired him with KG over Francis. Imagine him with KG’s guidance.
NBA_FAN I think you’re forgetting who Rip Hamilton was.
The train went off the rails when he went to Dallas. I think he was 32?
Odom was smoking weed almost every day in the mid-00's. He would look like PIppen one game and have 2 points and 5 rebounds the next. And watch the candy video btw.
I loved Anderi Kirilenko's game
I could never get in to WoW but I respect your opinion
@@Seamalicous 🤣🤣🤣🤣
The guy put up 5x5. How many players in NBA history could do that? At 22 he somehow led the 2003/04 Jazz to the winning record while having Arroyo as his second best player for most of the season. That team literally had an Arroyo-DeShawn Stevenson-AK-Jarron Collins-Greg Ostertag starting line-up. I mean, Sloan was a great coach - but this is insanity and a testament to how good AK-47 really was. Taking Szczerbiak over him is insulting tbh
@@dunadan1995 Imagine him playing yoday. With a lil work on his 3 point shot, he would be a very hot commodity.
Man... this draft is so underrated! sure, not too many top dogs... but SOOO MANY good ass players, alot of them great pieces in championship winning teams.
The entire lottery are basically all pretty good nba players
the fact chris andersen was left for the 16th pick speaks to how shit the rest of the picks after him are at 17 onwards ...like seriously the 17th best guy nba wise might be jeff foster then kenny thomas then francisco elson and then at 20 gordan giricek who had literally one good playoff game in his career....its bad after that like horrifyingly bad
@@razkable True but the whole draft lottery has good NBA players. There is no super stars but still a very good draft.
@@emilfrederiksen.1622The quality contributor draft.
Ginobili should be #1. Dude averaged 30 minutes only twice in his entire career. His unselfishness coming off the bench will always make him one of the most underrated players.
I think Shawn Marion is a great first pick
Manu played with a lot of talent and one of the the best coaches...if he was your best player from 04-14 your team isn't making the playoffs...02-04 manu as your best guard is leading you to the lottery as well...
Manu's advanced stats are insanely good. Like top 10 in BPM every year for a 6-7 year stretch good. He didn't get the counting stats because he gave up minutes in Pop's system and took a crazy bench role, but he was a really efficient scorer. Was top 15 for a 4-year stretch as a guard in True Shooting %. Is currently ranked 74th in True Shooting%, but again, he did it as a guard.
He played with an all-time great, but I think Manu was a hidden superstar for the Spurs. You don't win 4 chips without a really good second option.
@@sacramentofoodforesthe’s second to me. His peak was higher than Ginobilis, but Ginobili had the better career.
Marion was the second/third banana on the suns and they couldn’t win a ring. Ginobili won two rings as the third banana. I know it’s not all about rings, but that’s what separates this argument to me.
Damn the LO disrespect is heavy in this one
Man smh
From my knowledge he wasn't a problem really until he retired
Daniel Warren he was always into drugs. It just intensified when he retired
he was a beast in miami that one year...dude was the best player on a team that could of made the east finals
Yeah as much as I enjoyed the Stevie Franchise experience, Odom was an order of magnitude more relevant and Odom won a lot while Francis was a tank commander on the Knicks in what should've been his prime.
Damn this class was actually pretty solid .. no superstars just alot of good 2nd and 3rd players on playoff/championship caliber teams
Manu should be 1st 2nd and 3rd.
David nah I’d go Marion too. His versatility was just too insane to pass up on.
@@TheIcemanthomas Manu was the platonic ideal of John Havlicek; criminally underrated career.
Eric Allard yes. Elite talent. I’m still going Marion. Just my preference. But u can’t go wrong with many either.
@@TheIcemanthomas but he wasn't as good as ginobili, besides who's going to HOF ?
Fabricio Piotto both are candidates so.. Marion has already been a nominee, So he will likely get in eventually. You trying to defend against my personal pick doesn’t change anything. Ginobli is the better talent but I’m still taking Marion. He’s easier to build around. This isn’t a convo about who’s a hofer, it’s about who would be drafted first. As a scout, Marion would be the more enticing pick, and picking him wouldn’t be wrong regardless of if manu is better. That’s like taking ray Allen over AI or Kobe. Can’t go wrong. Still an all time great regardless.
This was easily the deepest draft so far
Lamar Odom had all the talent to be an all time great. Never felt like he had that killer instinct and willingness to take over offensively
+1 dude could have been special if he had *that dog* in him 🤔🤔
The fact that he never developed his right hand is evidence that he was cool with just being "pretty good" & cashing checks
🤷🏾♂️😪🤷🏾♂️😪
As a clipper fan odom was such a tease . He had so much talent . Got a tripple double , all rookie like 16 and 7 numbers .
Then also two drug suspesions , missed a bunch of games and never worked on his shot , right hand or got fit .
He was a lot like post blazers rasheed...good better than average starter but nothing special
I thought they've forgotten Artest
The correct order:
1 - Manu Ginobili (imagine if they gave him the freedom like Luka has)
2 - Shawn Marion
3 - Elton Brand
4 - Ron Artest
5 - Baron Davis
6 - Andrei Kirilenko
7 - Rip Hamilton
8 - Lamar Odom
9 - Steve Francis
10 - Jason Terry
11 - Andre Miller
12 - Wally Szcerbiak
13 - Corey Maggette
14 - James Posey
15 - Raja Bell
Elton Brand is not ahead of RIP Ham, and artest
Ron Artest should’ve gone waaayyyy higher he can easily be better version of PJ tucker on a small ball team. And in his prime was able to
Put the ball on the floor. If the palace brawl never happened would’ve been an mvp candidate that year
Artest and the jet were both undervalued...
I have never seen house. I’ve heard him for years. He’s got the wrong face.
Lmmmfaoo
He’s prettier than you imagined, right?
This content is getting me through the quarantine, but I want you guys to know that Wally over AK47 is not defensible.
Manu #1
That Elton Brand bit about him committing double suicide on my Sixers was hilarious.
Hahahhahahahaha(im dead on the inside)hahhaaha
Marion over Ginobili- these guys are awful. They just want to seem different and wiser than other people. Manu was amazing and a winner.
Chris Manu was a career sixth man, the only reason he has respect is was because he had that role anywhere but San Antonio hes a mediocre to above average guard
@@rambaral1698 you clearly didnt watch him play then. If he was on another team he would have run the show. Regular above avg guards don't lead their country to gold over the USA. Go back and watch him play in his prime.
They have a point because Marion was more versatile and arguably more valuable to any team out there. Manu is better offensively but defense, rebounding, hustle - The Matrix all the way.
Funny thing prime Athletic Manu vs prime Marion did happen ! We know is is better far and it’s in the playoffs
brand manu and marion over rip gave me hives ….he was a better player than them at his best imo...
14:25 I can’t believe he’s still alive 😂
I once made 5 threes with rookie Elton Brand in NBA Live 2000 and I thought I broke my N64
#1 Ginobili , #2 Richard Hamilton , 3# Ron Artest, #4 Baron Davis , # 5 Shawn Marion . That's the real redraft :)
That sentence by House about Shawn Marion felt like it was gonna keep going lol
I didn't know the 99 draft class was this good.
No superstars but talented players who were multiple year All-Stars. 🤔
Regardless on when Manu was coming, taking Marion over him is ridiculous. Spurs vs Suns was a great matchup and they played against each other multiple times. Manu’s BB IQ was so much higher that the comparison is silly, and last time I checked the Suns with Marion never won the last game of the season.
I almost got hit by Andre Miller and he was driving a Honda Accord in Palm Desert California.
Elton Brand had Hall of Fame stats before the injury.
Raja Bell was criminally underrated. Elite 3 and D on some great Phoenix Suns teams.
One of the more underrated Draft classes ever
This is a very interesting draft. Not much for number one franchise guys, but lots of depth and variety of different types of players. Even down to the role players.
AK-47 is being CRAZY underrated here. Trust me, google the advanced stats. He basically was a top 10 player in the NBA who just played in a small market before anyone cared to measure how much he was impacting winning.
If you run Manu's career 20 times, that was the best version of him
Playing with pop parker duncan robinson kawhi...I would think so....but it would be nice to see him run his own offense be a top 2 option for a decade and also not be a 6th man
@@razkable He was the man in Europe. Won triple crown and Mvp for every league he played in. He was the man in the national team. Won olympics gold medal and beat US national team en route to the championship. Won everything many times over in the NBA. Also averaged 20 ppg off the bench in the slowest era of basketball history in his prime. There is zero doubt in my mind he would have been a 27-30 ppg guy being a franchise player, and really makes you think if he is the 3rd best SG of all time.
In Bill's mind, everybody was ahead of their time
I love how he picked marion and terry only because they beat miami in a finals smdh...
Shawn the matrix Marion !
No mention of devean george 3 time champ...or posey being a top 6 guy on two title teams and a top 4 finals guy in some games
AK is going higher than 9, he would be a steal. And give Ak todays game, he would be insane
I saw this draft in person. I remember the crowd kept booing David Stern for know reason. After he announced the last pick in the first round he said with a sarcastic laugh " thank you for your hospitality!"
You know a draft is deep when an All-Star and Defensive Player of the Year goes #11.
Or it's a bad choice. Doesn't he go before Jason Terry and Wally Szerbiak? Or maybe they are counting mental health. He did destroy one franchise (Pacers).
99 is a low-key amazing draft class, but with Artest you really have to balance out how amazing he can be when he is focused and what would have happened if there was the same emphasis on mental health 20 years with the fact that he was a terrifying wildcard when he was playing.
So drafting him in the late lottery-mid teens seems like the right place for a "high risk, high reward" pick.
@@David-iv6jeAndre Miller, who led the league in assists and played 16 seasons, went #12. This is a deep draft broski.
Elton Brand was a really good player that gets overlooked because of how stacked his position was during the 2000s, especially in the West. He would have made more all star teams and all NBA teams but his career intersected with Duncan and KG and Dirk.
Webber and STAT as well intertwine with him out West + the Clippers were awful for so long.... in today's game he'd be a bear perfect small-ball 5, similar to what Serge Ibaka is for Toronto but better.
@@codyssmith73 Yeah, he'd thrive as a center today. And it was bad for both Brand and the Bulls that they traded him, especially to the Clippers. He would have put up numbers anywhere, but doing it for the Clippers back then was a waste. Had he stayed on the Bulls he makes more all star teams, and you pair him with some of those decent draft picks they made like Deng and Noah and some of those shooters like Gordon and Hinrich and that's a 50-win team that can make some noise in the playoffs.
From 1996 to 1999 ..raptirs could have had a roster of camby tmac carter baron davis ...jus wow
*Raptors
Raptors management was awful smh. All the way until Boshs departure pretty much
That would have been a wild lineup don’t know if it lasts long
@@Guzzydope they screwed Isiah Thomas after he got the franchise founded and in turn they were dog shit for years
Before injuries brand was a beast
"Give me on sentence on Shawn Marion"
House: *no sentence*
Manu was young once? What is weirder Manu in a Griz jersey or him having a full head of hair?
I remember it, his rookie season they won in 2003. And in 2005 they won again
Griz Jersey
Better ReDraft
(? For injury Concerns or character issue)
Ginóbili?/Marion/Brand?
Hamilton/Davis?-Kirilenko/Odom?
Artest?
Terry
Francis?/Sczcerbiak/Maggette
Miller
Bell/Posey
Bender?
Honorable Mentions
Anderson
Giricek
Take a shot every time Bill mentions he had Clippers Season Tickets.. Jeez, we get it Bill
“In my dreams I imagine Ron Artest and Bob Sura playing together anyway”
Can’t argue with that, even if it ruins my dream of Prime KG paired with Artest
Lmao why does Bill keep saying Antawn Jamison will make the HOF
Because the Basketball HOF has no standards
Because he will. Every player that has scored 20,000 points makes the HOF..except maybe Tom Chambers
Keep in mind the HOF takes college into consideration
Myung Bak Lee true but they also do dumb shit like not induct Chris Webber who is supposed to be a sure shot hall of famer. Dude’s been retired since 2008 and still not in..
Leo Kizzo Webber is not sure fire. Just because of his name people would think that. But if u take a look at his resume, it’s very light. He’s a slip in. Injuries took a lot of his year away a from him. If anything, he should only get in because they lowered the standards by letting tmac get in. But if they were more strict on their standards, he wouldn’t not be a first ballot guy by any means
1999 draft was underrated
Starting off the reasons for choosing Marion over Ginobili with "he was on some LEGENDARY Suns teams" is wild. He was the third best player on those teams, and Manu was the second best player on the teams that killed them and won championships in the same era. The what-ifs for Manu are "how deep of a playoff run could a team centered on Ginobili go? Could they contend with the right pieces around him?"; the Marion what-ifs are "if he shot 3s better than 33% for his career, could he help a team win a championship?" Manu accomplished the Marion what-ifs in real life. Y'all either way over or under thought this.
Consistent theme so far all the quality scoring guards have been slighted and undervalued so far. In this era all those guys would’ve been even bigger monsters (AI, B Diddy, Franchise)
Steve Francis and Wally over AK47, Jet and Artest is indefensible
Artest is top 3 in this draft.
That’s why these guys are not GMs
Am I crazy or is Artest too low?
Odom is a favorite of mine. He was ultra talented!
He just was not 100% focused at times. But he had all the skills plus the size.
Manu should be # 1 . There was one season where he was actually regarded higher than Kobe (at least in Fantasy Leagues) . The dude killed the Team USA by himself.
Marion over ginobili just shows how underrated manu was and still is. Unselfish guy, could have been a 25 6 and 6 guy on most teams but sacrificed and came off the bench and won 4 NBA titles. Marion is really good, had a fantastic 2006 season in particular but Manu is the guy here.
Honestly,Marion at number 1 is a bad pick. Marion was a good player,sometimes even flirted with great but when you are going number 1,and you don't have the guy yet,then you absolutly have to take a guy who can create the big shot. Manu,if you just look at his stats was not a superstar,but give him freedom,put him in a James Harden type of solution,let him control the team from the start of his career and you would get a 25 points per game player 5-6 asissts 5 rebounds etc. Dude was great. He showed it in the euroleague before NBA,he showed it at Olyimpis and every time his number was called with the Spurs. Manu is easly number 1 pick. Great teammate on top of that,you can put him as teh face of the franchize,role model,plays defense,hustles etc. He just had it. Eeasy choice. Also Artest that low ? But man,Marion number 1 pick ? Wtf is wrong with Simmons.
Way understating Manu here. Should have been #1.
Wow, this draft was deep, and the GMs did pretty well! I'd pick Elton Brand anyway, even though Marion and Manu had better career.
3pt shooting is the most important thing in the world... until they *totally ignore it* when they overvalue Andre Miller 🤨🤨
(Career 21% 3pt shooter)
The lack of logical consistency is staggering.
PS. Wally over Artest is just ridiculous
A very solid draft
This draft is one of the most underrated, because it doesn't have a number 1 guy and not really a number 2 either (barring Gino who was 2b with Parker and maybe Elton Brand for a few years). But you've got 11 great guys with either a very good peak (Francis, Odom, Kirilenko, Maggette) or quite long careers of being good contributors to good teams (Terry, Miller) or both (Ginobili, Marion, Brand, Artest, Hamilton)
I don't understand why Wally S. was picked before these guys.
There must be some research that shows that people are more likely to click on the thumbnail if the people in it are smiling.
Click on the Ringer and look at all of the thumbnail pictures. While you're at it, go look at the all the smoke podcast thumbnail pictures. They make sure to grab a shot of the participants with a big cheesy grin on their face if possible.🤔
I'm surprised Artest isn't higher, clutch moves and stuff
At first when I saw the title I thought they were rehashing some 6th man of the year awards or something lol. It's apparent this wasn't a top heavy draft. Not to say Odom, Marion, Ginobli, etc. weren't good players, they fit their roles very well!
Corey Maggette was a stud, I think he was early wave juicer in the NBA? Body broke down super fast super early like his tendons couldn't handle. Idk anything behind the scenes just speculation.
cant believe how far artest fell
I'm only at pick 9 and I feel disappointed Artest is still on the board
Bummed you guys didn't talk more about Baron Davis and how dominate he could be
If only he learned the three ball earlier in his career like he had in golden state..put peak psychical bounce speedy baron with the experienced crafty savy baron mentally from his later prime years and you have a superstar pg on the level of peak cp3
Not a top heavy draft, but damn was this a more loaded draft than I remembered it being. The discussions from about 5-12 were very debatable because of how close the players were.
I can't believe he's still alive 😂😂
They keep talking about guys playing in the wrong era, but kept picking other guys over LaMar Odom lol. I know he had his off court problems, but imagine Lamar Odom playing in this era. He'd be similar to Ben Simmons
But he can actually shoot unlike Mr. Simmons
The off the court problems are there no matter what era
This draft was sneaky deep
If there is any draft where we can say, "(player X) would be a great center in a small-ball lineup in today's NBA" it is this draft. Odom, Marion, Kirilenko; those three could hit triples, rebound, and had the length to good play defense. It is something said way too often but in the case of these guys it is true.
Rip was that Pistons teams number one scorer all those years...
The andre miller Clippers story makes sense when you think he had to deal with Donald Sterling and then he argued with George Karl cause Karl wouldn't put iguodala on steph which ended up costing them the series.
Bill “I had season tickets that year” Simmons
Still cannot believe they didn’t take tat free birdman
1. Manu
2. Marion
3. Brand
4. Baron
5. Odom
6. Francis
7. Rip
8. Artest (on talent)
9. Kirilenko
10. Terry
11. Miller
12. Maggette
13. Sczerbiak
14. Posey
15. Raja
Don't @ me
If I didn't know better I would've thought Bill had Clippers season tickets
They were all over the map with this one. The wally and steve francis picks were poor amongst others. Arrest should have gone higher.
Hell yeah rip
4:20 - The reason Manu was the 57th pick wasn't because he wouldn't be coming until a few years, it's because he was an unknown at that time, nobody knew who he was. The reason the Spurs drafted them was because in 1997, the Spurs GM randomly saw him play in Australia and he was impressed by his skill. In 1999 the Spurs had a 57th pick that they didn't care about cause it was such a low pick, so the GM remembered Manu and decided to draft him.
So true, it was a risk, mngt did not took him on the 29th in favor of an unknown Leon White, which was made for trade with 40th pick gericek.
Why did Steve Francis go so high? For me, I’d go manu, Marion, rip, brand, bd, Terry, artest, AK47, francis, wally
this draft is almost perfect, everyone who got drafted in the lottery should have been, except Raja Bell, should’ve picked birdman.
I’m a die hard spurs fan but I’m not bias either …but we don’t know Manu is Manu without the spurs /pops allowing him to be himself…but this can be said about a lot of players
I can't call Marion a HOFer.
Agreed, he shouldn't be inducted but in Hall of Good though 😂
Lamar might want the ball but he would want to share it.
Lamar over Steve Francis, Baron Davis and even Elton Brand imo
Men you guys are forgeting some important stats for those players. Artest won defensive player of the year and Andre miller is 11 all time jn assist (which is crazy). Id hace taken them higher.
@ 3:45 we need an NBA team back!
How do you take Shawn Marion over a guy who was the 2nd best player on a championship team, and a top 10 player in the league for multiple seasons??
Not a ton of elite talent but really solid depth in this draft
Manu should be 1 y’all tripppin
How the f is Jamison hof?