Dassault Rafale Vs Jas39 Gripen Dogfight | Digital Combat Simulator | DCS |
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On this channel we like to do a lot of dogfighting most videos are some sort of dogfight between 2 different aircraft as we explore their different capabilities. From time to time I like to dabble in Virtual Reality, I think VR is a great new technology and I love to show that stuff off for the channel from time to time.
If you prefer more up close and personal dogfights consider the IL-2 Sturmovik: Great Battle series and experience intense WWII aerial combat over famous battlefields such as Stalingrad, Moscow, Rhineland and Normandy. Fight in and against Russian, American, German, British warbirds such as the P-51 Mustang, P-47 Thunderbolt, Bf-109, FW-190, Spitfire, Hurricane and rugged IL-2 Sturmovik attack plane. You can also fly legendary SPADS, Fokkers and Camels in WWI dogfights over the trenches of WWI and discover your inner Red Baron! And all of this can be experienced in jaw dropping virtual reality!
If you enjoy war thunder or Microsoft flight simulator 2020, consider getting yourself into Digital Combat Simulator by Eagle Dynamics, the Combat side of Aviation with the BVR and Dogfights really provides a different and interesting perspective on aviation. You can fly all kinds of combat aircraft including the F-16, F-15, F-14, JF-17, Su-27, Mig-29, Mirage and the F-18 Hornet along with many other aircraft and helicopters like the Ka-50 and Mi-8.
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Seems the Gripen and Rafale put up an interesting dogfight together, it got a little spicy there on the deck in the 1 circle roller.
Wow, some really great flying here, a dance for sure.
Thank You
I'm calling this fight now-- Rafale should win! I've seen this fight already on a different channel and they really made sure, lol unless GS is in the Gripen then it may stand a chance only bc well he's an amazing pilot! Also Rafale is superior to The Typhoon! That's the fight we need-- Typhoon VS Gripen👍
Yup if you GS were in Rafale you would have DOMINATED The Gripen lol its true
Typhoon VS Gripen
P-38 VS Mosquito
F-4 Phantom VS A-4 SkyHawk
MB-339 Aerimacchi VS Viggen
Pucara VS Super Tucano
F-15 STOL/MTD VS F-16I Sufa Extreme AOA VS Extreme Missile Rating👍
AV-8 Harrier VS MIG-23 Flogger
F4U Corsair VS MIG-15 historic dogfight 👍
hey what do you think of the Gripen vs viggen
@@TheNamePi lol poor Viggen dead in seconds, idk tho could turn out to be a fun matchup
The real Gripen C actually has a "war mode" and you sacrifice engine life, against more power. Changing the engine on a Gripen takes an hour and can be done at the roadside by those who normally change weapons, which enables war mode without the plane ending up in a hangar. The Gripen E has a larger big brother engine but is also heavier and may not have a war mode, yet, but can be replaced in the same short time.
Does the Gripen "Echo" have the F414 (licensed) engine in it?
@@timbaskett6299 yes
Wait. It only takes an hour to change the engine what, thats not possible
@@swynty5767 Its possible basically a 5 member crew changed a full engine in about 50 mins on the airfield
@@swynty5767 it is for the gripen
The seriousness in the tone of GS voice shows how tense the fights were. Well flown by both.
He still makes it look like it’s just a typical day though which is funny
It’s a shame the pilot of that Rafale did two turn reversals in that final round, both felt very unnecessary. Esp after showing some incredible AoA ability (I’m guessing he used a lot of rudder) he then goes and gets himself killed.
I know. It almost seemed like he was trying to get killed when he just reversed turns twice like that...
The pilot especially in a Rafale make everything, as the plane itself with good pilots beaten F-22 multiple times
@@ser43_OLDC Typhoon ??? Never heard a typhoon beating an F22
Most likely because f 22 pilots cannot use full capabilities of the plan for classified reasons I dont wanna say it's not possible just claims are to be taken lightly
@@iandingman1920 Sam apply to Rafale but worse French army is called among countries and politicians internationally "The Great Mute One" because no one as any info of their stuff even French themselves.
Beginnings of an idea here... Next March, a tournament of all the most current fighters. Each match is 4 rounds w/ pilots switching after 2 so you're testing the plane not the pilot. In the event of a tie go to round 5 sudden death and flip a coin for who pilots which plane.
If you start with an even number of planes you could do something single elimination. Otherwise double elimination. It would be a series of videos; March Madness in the Sky!
the pilot is part of the plane, you can't have someone flying the jet who knows nothing about it or you'll just have a winner that's easiest to fly, not the one that's actually the best
@@carmastrikes yes thats the thing about a competition not every atlete is as equally good in a discipline
@@emileponcelet3439 but everyone should be given equal chances at start (i.e. not a headstart) donkey.
This is what I’ve been wanting to see! Thanks GS!!
American here. The Gripen is to my eyes, the most beautiful Fighter in the sky as of 2022. Love this Ship.
This was super interesting seeing 2 very similar aircraft just sending it above the clouds, super cool thanks GS
Absolutely not similar
@@wezxoo_4071 Then you must be fucking blind ;))
@@jonnyj. similar in the apparence but in the conception both are very different
@@jonnyj. 2 engines vs 1 engine = not similar. Use your brain :p
not similar at all just a little bit the exterior
See, what he taught us when he flew the mirage still holds true. "As long as you have altitude you have options"
May the best Dorito win!
side note, you know how in shooting they say don't yank on the trigger? 1:20 that's why :3
Typhoon VS Gripen
P-38 VS Mosquito
F-4 Phantom VS A-4 SkyHawk
MB-339 Aerimacchi VS Viggen
F-15 STOL/MTD VS F-16I Sufa Extreme AOA VS Extreme Missile Rating👍
Pucara VS Super Tucano
AV-8 Harrier VS MIG-23 Flogger
F4U Corsair VS MIG-15 historic dogfight 👍
Me262 vs A-10!!
F-18 vs Sopwith Camel
@@wurfyy F-22 vs Sopwith Camel.
all there are F-15 vs F-15
Computer animation and simulation is amazing.Watching these videos has been very enjoyable and helpful while following the Swiss and Finnish fighter selection processes.WVR combat was rarely mentioned in them,but the insight you provide has been most helpful.
Great material. I really appreciate the tac view debrief on these fights because it really helps my understanding of what is going on. Thank you!
Damn, that situational awareness taking advantage of the river to hold the dive a fraction longer and still pull out. Torching shrubbery!
Like i said above, definitely made the hole pucker
Damn this was a tough fight 😲😲, a highly skilled pilot and Rafael is a brutal combination
rafale.
Don't think I have ever commented on a youtubevideo before, but that camo on the Gripen rocks!
Yes!! The long awaited video 😁
Thank you for your amazing content and keep up the good work
This game always surprises me with how good it looks, I think DCS have the most photorealistic sky in any game.
I tried this once and actually got air sick, it’s so realistic
Even though it's mostly lucky you could say it was a slick and nasty move having your opponent think you're about to go belly into the trees so he letting off his engagement just to see you thrust save your way back in the fight and immediatelly catch him off guard with the cannon ;)
Epic finish :D
"Welcome to Full Frontal, with your host, Growling Sidewinder!"
Missed the tacview after dogfights so much ! Thank you
Really nice vid. It's these kind of fights that are interesting when similar planes square off against each other. I always wondered how it would end if you put the Rafale, Typhoon and Gripen in a conflict.
@@ser43_OLDC To be fair, Gripen has the best maneuverability of all three.
@@henrikg1388 Because u've decided it? Or you got some special datas on the three fighters that nobody except you have?
@@silverpleb2128 No, because I read books. Maybe you should try it sometime. This is from American Gripen by David Archibald (2016).
@@henrikg1388
lol what?
No.
The Gripen is by far the least maneuverable of all three eurocanards.
And David Archibald btw, is far from an expert on these matters. He's pretty much an australian Pierre Sprey.
He doesn't know shit about jets and air combat. And his "works" clearly show it.
Think Rafale is OP, but it should statistically win by a slight margin in a guns only fight.
IRL, Gripen HMD + Python/IRIS-T would be another thing altogether.
The rafale with it's meteor missiles win.
And even with the exercice who happened in switzerland. The rafales was above the Grippen.
@@christophedurand9083 Gripen also have Meteor. Both fighters are so agile it comes down to pilot skill.
Gripen was the first fighters jet with meteor and was developed especially with the Gripen.
This strongly reminds me of that time you flew a Viper in Greek colors vs that red F-14B.. both beautiful fights Growly! 🤙🤙🤙
The moment you were falling outta the sky but the thrust to weight ratio on that thing saved yer bacon... hoooo boi! Reminds me of an instructor in tech school "With enough thrust you can make anything fly."
I am once again asking for Battle of the Canards: the JAS39 Gripen vs RF3 Rafale C vs EF2000 Typhoon vs SU33 Flanker D, with the NF15 MTD as a possible bonus.
To the best of my knowledge the Gripen is the fastest turning fighter there is. You should be beating him in any circle fight because he should never be able to catch up in a circle fight.
Sources? I would like to see hit becose of what I hear Rafale just explode typhoon AND Grippen in every dog fight situation in training
@@tankm200War thunder classified leaks
@@tankm200 As a swede I can tell you that you are correct. The Gripen has the best turnrate and rhe typhoon the best climb rate. The problems is that Rafale has better than average turnrate And Climbrate. That is enough to win most dogfights in theory.
Tremendous bfm skills man. You have such clear understanding of dog fighting.
The "make sure you don't see the bottom of the aircraft in a turn fight" was pretty much what IAF ace Ran Ronen said during an interview.
Ah, finally, I've been waitin a while, keep up the goid work growling sidewinder
I watch these every day, I haven't built a PC yet, but as fantastic as everything looks i cant wait to see it in 4 or 5 years when it is completely photo realistic. When high end GPUs are like 70 Tflop and PS6 is about to come out.
"a lot of people feel the Rafale is overperforming"... well, how would they know if they're not Rafale pilots themselves?
If no real Rafale pilot contributed the only thing we can be sure of is that it's not performing like the real thing. It could just as well be underperforming.
I believe the canards on the Rafale are placed nearer to the wings for better maneuverability.
If there was an official Gripen module it would be the only modern jet I buy.
there is the F4 version of the rafale coming out of french factories that will fully equip the french army soon, changes were made on its maximum payload, allowing it to carry 1 ton bomb i think + allowing the pilot to get his HUD directly in his helmet like for the F35 helmet
Should to a repeat with @Growling Sidewinder flying the Rafale against the Gripen... for the purpose of restoring Balance to the Force.
Outstanding clip! Time counter 4:46 it is easy to be seen, that Grippen is more manoeuvrable, but Rafale has more power...
Two of my favourite aircraft in one video. Though my Czech patriotism suffered a blow in the first round, great one for sure
Patriotism is a tool by politicians to con the masses into following them into often questionable endeavors. Ask yourself how Hitler managed to get so many Germans to vote for him. Patriotism. It sure doesn't solve the Israeli/Palestinian conflict for sure - not when both sides are very patriotic and that colors their "judgment".
And since neither aircraft is of Czech design or manufacturing - why the patriotism in the first place? Save if for athletes or national football teams or something. At least something which doesn't kill other people.
Nice TAC review an explanation for those of us new to your channel.
This is pure gold, to see and learn about. I guess some planes overperform, but how much when thruth is a seecret.. Honest, i was'nt sure how this could end. Very well flying both of you. If i'm going to rank this, i'l put it at top five. Ace. 👍
These things are absolute animals in a dogfight, any pilot in one these would have to have super human endurance
Great educational video as always GS. Could you show opponent aspects in TacView again please? Obviously, we don't get to see your opponent's views in game, it is just good to see what he sees during the debrief. What do you think?
Many eastern european NATO countries had to choose between F16 And Gripen. Would be interesting to see a VS. Thanks!
Do what you'd like bud, don't let people tell you what to do. You're a great creator and your videos are awesome!
I'd like to see mods for the Mitsubishi F-1 and F-2. Both are planes that I feel need more love, the Viper Zero especially.
I like these comparison duels a lot.
Love your content,specialy the 2 morons series,you are having fun and enjoying every moment.cheers.
great videos dude, i like your style! the after action review is really well done as well.
Great video man. Some really tight, tense flying.
Words cannot state how pretty I think the rafale is, especially looking at it from the front dude
Absolutely. The front view of the Rafale looks like a seriously mean machine.
So the same holds true in a knife fight and a dogfight. Once you get on the floor, it’s do or die. Great fight gents.
I wonder how long a pilot can manage to pull those G’s in the circles?
Rafale has always been a beast !!!!
Keep going bud
One thing I can say for sure is Saab’s cars definitely do not reflect the quality of their aircraft.. But I remember it being a marketing draw card in all their commercials “your buying a Saab from the same manufacturer that makes fighter jets / inspired by true fighter jet technology” lmao
YES! The Rafale! Pretty please do a Rafale vs Typhoon if it sounds fun to you, to show why the French were right to back out of the program :)
You do realise this is just a game, right?
@@georgebarnes8163 my comment is silly and made in the interest of good fun, I'm not trying to put anyone down :) I just think the Rafale looks better than the Typhoon so I like to make fun of the Typhoon
@@georgebarnes8163 its a simulation, normally precise and accurate. What you meant was these two jets are community made mods, and hence probable inaccuracies.
@@retardmoguss It is a game, a toy.
@@georgebarnes8163 at the end of the day, all that stuff is classified though so you're arguing over the unknowable.
Rate fight are much more difficult than what I was thinking. I have a better understanding of why I was stuck yesterday. The fight ended up by being out of fuel just after the bad guy. The plane still landed safe... xD What a mess!
Gripen vs drunk rafale pilot
Great video as usual. At around 7 min u mentioned "only the f22 does that" and that brings up a question I always have watching the f22 videos. Isnt it overperforming? Like, the f22 wasnt designed for a superior dogfight performance against its foes, but for Stealth capabilities and inteligent systems and weapons, meaning it would just shoot down enemies BVR and without being detected, not having to engange in any dogfights. Does it actually perform all that well in dogfights IRL?
F22 performs even better because pilots are not allowed to use full potential
@@goddtzu4008 No vut I mean like, is it well modelled in DCS? The f22's aerodynamics arent the best out there, so I'd imagine ot would have some shortcomings on dogfights, even with its amazing engines
@@fredmdea785 the F22 does have thrust vectoring so it's likely that it can do such things.
@@cubey1118 so do some russian fighters that get absolutelly destroyed by it in dogfights in DCS
@@MrDJAK777 yeah but when designing a plane engineers must make some compromises. Like, 5th grn fighters have worst aerodynamics than the latest 4th, cause they sacrifice some of that performance as its considered less important than their setalth capabilities. Where's the f22's sacrifice, there must be at least one aspect in which it isn't the absolute best, as engineering isnt magic. Is there no shortcoming to its performance?
US fighter pilots described the Rafale when they fought against as a Super Hornet with better thrust to weight ratio
I think the Greeks will love the Rafale.
IKEA did a very good job making the Gripen
According to several Rafale pilots the Rafale on DCS was underperforming but France Army is not transparent at all on the contrary of the US army on their machines.
Hey growling, can u try to do a video on SU 30 MKI VS F22? I think that should be somewhat of a fair fight.
Lmao are you serious? 😂😂
@@jesletkuriakose I'm not saying that MKI is better than the F22 just both of them r very maneuverable.😂
F22 is little bit better
It has been done with Su 35 and Su 57 and F22 still wins.
It Is harded for It to get the kill but It has like a 60% probabilty of winning.
IMO would be the same with the MKI
Unless the MKI brings the Python, that should even odds a bit.
It really wouldn’t be that good of a video. I feel like it’s been done with members of the su27 family planes before and none of those videos were exciting, unless f22 murdering Russian planes makes you excited lol
We just bought a bunch of Rafale and they say they really are performing like that..
I dont know, but it doesnt feel he knows how to fly.
Going all over the place randomly.
But would be interesting to see u flying them against other top aircrafts
I mean is there really anything you could've done in that first round you explained in TacView? If you are essentially out of energy, pulling max G's... what are you options? If you reverse you die. If you go vertical you die.
I mean, is there any of 'that pilot shit' you could have done differently? Roll out and under him maybe? Or just accept your fate?
I guess in a situation like this where no missiles are involved you could try flying in a straight line doing rolls and evasive maneuvers until you get your energy back. If you're still alive by then you can try and force an overshoot but if the enemy pilot is competent he won't let that happen. Still it's better than to keep turning with no energy left and the guy on your 6.
@@KingMen1Force thing is, if you extend and still do evasions, your energy won't come back anyway
If he had more altitude he could've dumped the nose and gotten more energy. That's the one thing I learned from his old Mirage videos, as long as you have altitude you have options
@@tonyrun5802 Simply by just rolling can make the reticle spin like crazy, combine that with small 2G maneuvers after the roll are enough to gain energy. With a little bit of luck and skill of course. As long as you have altitude you have options but on the deck , extending I think is the best option in a situation like that.
@@KingMen1Force maybe, one should try, for science!
Luckily the Gripen and Rafale most likely will be on the same side ;)
Seen them both on airshows. Both are impressive. But the Gripen looks much more agile. Respond faster to inputs. At least at slow speed. And really.. What do they cost 😉
Amazing video this brings my hopes up to one day see rafale vs typhoon
Beautiful planes. I love deltas with canards.
What version of JAS39 Gripen is it? JAS39D and E is very different, like F/A-18 Hornet and the F/A-18 Super Hornet.
Hey brother love the channel. Got a question... at 14:26 after you tighten down the turn if you had gave it left stick and gone vertical could you have continued to roll left and got closer to behind him? I'm not a pilot but I've played one in flight sims. Thanks for all the knowledge you share with us. Love you brother have a good one
It looks like this was the last chance to turn the tides for the grippen. The Rafale has lower wing loading and higher thrust to weight than the Gripen so it has advantage in the fight when things get low and slow. I am glad that what was predicted by the numbers was reflected in the actual simulation. You can see that the Rafale with lower G was getting better turn rate, is this correct I do not know for sure, as the outurning happened much quicker than anticipated and GrowingS made much better deck transition.
Rafel is over performing... Than what you will say to jf17?
guessing this is the C variant? well, in reality even the C variant has a better sustained rate and instant, so the results here are interesting for sure
But a rather low TWR, though lower drag. Rafael does have more power to retain speed in turns.
@@AlexKall the C variant has a rather low TWR yes, hence why these results are possible if it is the C variant. If it was the E, the Rafale wouldn’t stand a chance
We also want you in Su57 vs F22 flown by Longshot))
Loved that showy flybye and barrelroll at the end GS.
Still reckon you open fire late...spend more bullets ;)
These two planes look so much alike. They’re both single engine delta wings with front canards, it’s hard to tell them apart. Great video as usual.
The Rafale is twin engine and much bigger than the Grippen
@@Mike_Romeo …
Shit…you’re right. I didn’t notice that. Its still hard to tell in the vid though.
the rafale can keep up with a 22 in canon senario, plus it should have thrust adventage over the grippen, i wouldn't say it's overperforming in the video
The Gripen has less thrust but is more aerodynamically efficient, if it’s enough idk, but considering the Gripen is made by a country of 7 million people (10m today) it’s punching way above its weight
Both these aircrafts are incredibly similar in both appearance and performance. The Rafael i think should be able to perform slightly better in a dog fight, but they're similar enough to where it's mostly up to the pilots skill who wins.
Absolutely not similar
In reality rafale nerver loose vs typhoon and Gripen, its dcs dogfight lol
@@wezxoo_4071 You seem to believe that the airplanes are not flown by humans. Ofc it would loose fights.
@@ThorSuzuki1 I know I swear the only thing that matters to these people are airplane specs, it's not that hard to objective but they still choose to blindly suck off their favorite aircrafts
Rafale. Not rafael.
Pro-tip my dude. YT is a cesspool of trolls that love to harass in the comments.
You will never appease them. However, your True Fans love your content and would never Harass you.
Not being too much of a Combat Flight Sim player since MS Combat FlightSim, your descriptions of technique mixed with humor is fun and I'm actually learning some strategies. Thanks!
Rafale flight characteristics are not overperforming, they seem to be already really close to irl.... i've seen multiple time Rafale pilots "killing" F22 in Red Flag or Blue Flag exercises... Rafle is a jsut a BEAST
You've seen that happening in red flag? Were you part of the exercise?
I finally understand the importance of having a low aspect angle to the bandit. In the TacView when the Rafale pulled into pure pursuit, he had a high aspect of about 90 degrees, which made it an impossible shot because the ballistics caused his bullets to lag behind you, even though the nose of his aircraft was in pure pursuit. Had he pointed his nose at you in pure pursuit with a low aspect, he probably would have landed those rounds on you. Thanks for doing the tacview analysis. That’s hugely helpful.
I think he had the right idea to go up when you got slow and almost hit the trees, but he should have kept turning left and made it a high yo-yo instead of reversing the turn.
9:34 Imagine you‘re standing there by the lake and seen this scene live in action 😅
I'd be interested to know what your stance is on whether Canada should continue pursuing the F-35 or if we should take Saab's offer of a complete fleet wide replacement with the Gripen?
RCAF will continue retrofitting new gadgets in their rusty CF-188s. Like duct-taping iPads into a Spitfire.
"Please, just let me die already."
-RCAF, probably
I think either would be fine, although the F35 certainly has a wider alignment with their assorted allies. But I have always thought Canada is one country that doesn't need any huge military investment these days. Other than shoo'ing off the occasional trespassing Blinder, who would the RCAF face off against in a genuine defence of their home soil? They are encased on 3 sides (and 3 oceans, 1 frozen!) by long-term allies, and the Arctic is in many ways its own defensive barrier... let alone the need to go through a superpower to get to them! This is no putdown at all, I love Canada, but its just something I have always questioned.
@@sbg911 Canada mostly has a military to show up with the US when the US goes to war. Is it strictly necessary? No. But it does give Canada some political clout with the US. Physical proximity and political clout can lead to some lucrative trade deals and job creation.
It's a minor cost but it makes sense on a geopolitical level.
@@LSgaming201 Thanks JT, understand your points and Canada's global commitments - and any country's need for a military obviously - but that's why I said 'huge' investments. Whether Canada buy 80 or 30 new aircraft, I think the cost-vs- results 'balance' would be the same, and I don't think replacing an entire fleet is really a minor cost.
And certainly if they buy 80 Gripens (the OP's original question), I can't see that boosting their US clout...
I don't know the RCAF budget here, but on a comparable nation, Australia is paying $16bill I think for their 70-ish F35's, and they got a discount as a Level3 partner - yet they have burgeoning & aggressive superpower expanding to their doorstep. With the defensive advantage of their geography, if Canada buys only 30 instead, $10+bill unspent buys a lot of hospitals & roads...?
Anyway appreciate the response and clearly the Canadian govt agrees with your thoughts, not mine!
@@sbg911 My personal opinion on the matter is they should just buy the F/A-18F on offer from Boeing. It's a larger upgraded version of what they already fly (F/A-18B). It's cheaper than the F-35, better than the Gripen, and requires zero retraining for pilots and air crews.
The 1 circle from 08:50 and on reminded me of the scene Mav‘ vs Rooster where Hangman watches and comments
„...what is with these two...“
- HANGMAN -
F-22 and Su-35 use thrust-vectoring for these long controlled drifts, helping them turn tighter. These canard planes kinda do the same, except the whole plane acts as "thrust vectoring" in relation the the canards that are the only thing on the plane aligned with the flight vector.
I’m most definitely under qualified to answer this question, but I’d think of it more as the entire aircraft generating lift, compared to more traditional designs that generates negative lift to turn and then having to cancel that force out by generating even more lift, so it is just much more efficient, and you get a more efficient blending of air and exhaust at the tail, especially on the Gripen with that elongated tail
Gripen is just so fukkin badass
Very cool, I dont play but I live vicariously through you.
Looks like the Rafale was in control of the fight most of the time, except for the brain-cramp that got the pilot killed in round #2. Should have pointed the nose up, gone verticle for a moment, come down and gunned Gripen's brains out.
Twinkle Roll flare drop over the Gripen fireball, the absolute disrespect..... and awful manners.
I thought the Rafale would be the winner. I assume the Rafale has a slight advantage in the vertical and in BVR.
Rafale is the boss with F-22 Raptor
The Rafale is one hell of a jet
Damn but these aircraft are friggin gorgeous.
Good fight.
I used to like 30 mm cannons over 20 mm ones...
But the moment I saw the Griffin's before 27 mm gun missed a share short kill because of less number of projectiles fired over the same time period, I'm done.. 20 mil it is
good experience in this wargaming.
Dassault Rafale Vs Jas 39 Gripen Dogfight
Note that in one circle, the Rafale at no time had more than 3.5 G while the JAS 39 was at 5.0 -5.7 G, both had about the same radius of the circle, some one is cheating!?
Why did GS fail to pull enough Gs?
He wasn't Gripen it hard enough.
Oh dad, you’re so funny sometimes.
It's not the way the Gripen flies that makes it tough. It's what it is capable of, like electronic warfare. Gripen shines when the lights go out. The Gripen doesn't have to be invisible.