Hope you enjoyed this video! Now, I have given credit to some key sources for this video, which you can check in the description. A lot of this wouldn't be possible without the people who've pointed out Java Edition's problems before me. That being said, the game is still really fun, I'm still really excited for 1.20 and beyond. But I just hope I won't have to wait for Optifine to update to the latest version before I can enjoy the new features. And I hope those who mod their game do so from official sources :)
Personally I would complain about the performance too, if it wasn't for the fact that I play on a really god awful laptop, so I'm not saying anything lol. I'm just glad that these mods even exist
I think hardware is a big reason for a lot of the performance issue complaints online. Minecraft is not as simple a game as it once was. Hardware requirements go up with each update.
@@HintzeDarrin the thing is, bedrock is only so simplistic because of the amount of unsolved bugs they leave in. it's meant to be slow/buggy so smaller and less powerful devices can run it/
Fun fact: Mojang has tried to add Optifine officially into the game, but the reason it was never added was because the creator didn't agree to it being added.
Yeah, I watched TheMisterEpic's video on Optifine and learned all about the deal they tried to broker. Really interesting, and it was a bit silly for it to fall through because of some donor capes, but maybe it was for the best
So really one of the biggest problems is that IF they tried to improve the performance people would just complain that they didn't add anything. -Kinda like they did with the Bees and Bugs update...-
@@costa-w3k Honestly, people having been waiting for the experimental combat changes to be added for real so that would be the perfect opportunity to make optimizations to the game while keeping people satisfied.
I agree. While people do keep requesting, and I quote, "Dedicate an update to only bugfixes and performance changes and no new features", the moment Mojang reduces new content to dedicate time to fixes, they complain. An example is 1.20 itself. So far, we have had a decent lot of features. With them came a lot of fixes to old bugs, especially on bedrock. While people did compliment these efforts, they were shoved under the rug quickly. Now people are complaining 1.20 to be an underwhelming update, only a smidge better than 1.19.
@Jeff exactly. They either: 1) Ask for stuff that's just too excessive and unreal to be added. Their suggestions are too modded for the minecraft-ey feel, and then when stuff like Armor Trims get added, adding nothing but colour to vanilla Armor, they say it feels modded, because they saw Philza using it as a mod. Or 2) They ask for stuff, get what they want, maybe a feature or two more, but then pull out the "not enough features for an update's worth" or "not as good as 1.16" card.
1.19.4 was insane in terms of performance improvements, it basically added the same optimisation that lazyDFU does into the vanilla game and there’s almost no lag spikes (for me at least) when chunk builder is on threaded. I’m still going to be using sodium but it just shows mojang is going in the right direction
Having just seen the new update, I'm actually impressed that Mojang did improvements to DFU initialization. Didn't even know 1.19.4 was being released, it must have rolled out pretty quickly.
@@FizzyBanger not many people really talked about it cuz it was mostly technical changes. Also I forgot to mention resourcepacks load extremely fast in 1.19.4 compared to 1.19.2 because of the improvements to atlases
Since Mojang said that they will be putting out multiple minor updates every few months between the major updates, I'm hoping that they use them to slowly improve performance.
I absolutely agree you have to download at least 6 performance mods to make the game playable and still if you fly with elytra into chunks that you havent visited yet, the game will still render them very poorly.
And this is why I play Bedrock nowadays. I don't want to go through the headache of installing and worrying over possibly unupdated mods conflicting with each other, just to play a game I paid hard-earned money for.
@@Myrskylintu If this was like 5 years ago I would agree with you, but bedrock is on par with Java in terms of lag now. And it doesn't have any mods to make up for it. Bedrock is now most definitely a very inferior obsolete version
@@Cronalixz I played bedrock from 2016 to 2022. I got my first Windows device with a GTX 1650m in 2021. The only thing that helps is throwing more CPU and GPU at the game
@@Cronalixz I didn't even notice lol. I play pocket edition and yes it lags sometimes but that's if I load too much shi in one place. Last time I played java I well didn't play it was unplayable lol
Did you tried running multi-threading rendering on sodium? I got no such problem as you describing and i dont have greatest cpu in the world, so it helped me, may help you
I think "The problem with Bedrock Edition" video is fitting as a continuation. This is a really well built and detailed video, and Bedrock is worth mentioning too.
@@FizzyBanger i saw a guy called Stryxo talk about bedrock really well before, he played the game and did an analysis on the game based on his experience, worth checking out. And just to clarify, there is a lot more to mention other than just what he mentioned
@@FizzyBanger well it wouldn't be exactly fitting because bedrock edition runs great on my 8 year old acer aspire xc-703 desktop pc even before I upgraded it from 4 to 8 gb of ram, but java edition runs HORRIBLY even with optifine and 8gb of ram with one giant lag spike when I join a server / world, and 20 fps, and occasional lag spikes. And when it was on 4 gb of ram java edition had multiple HUGE lag spikes when joining, constant lag spikes every 3-10 seconds that lasted anywhere from half a second to a WHOLE MINUTE, and usually was at around 10 fps or 0 fps. (THAT INCLUDES single player. ) so bedrock edition has AMAZING performance while java edition has terrible performance even with optifine
@@FizzyBanger well try running bedrock edition on the WORST PC u can find, as long as u set anti-aliasing to 1 then bedrock edition will run great on it(though if it is really bad then it would run better on the Nintendo switch though it would be entirely playable and no lag(setting anti-aliasing to 1 is just to remove input delay if u don't have a graphics card. ))
FYI, lazydfu isn't needed in 1.19.4 IIRC, since Mojang improved the vanilla DFU loading to just a few milliseconds, so it doesn't need to be lazy loaded anymore
Mojang is slowly improving the performance of Java Edition. Like in the *Cave* *&* *Cliffs* update, maybe they don't improve the performance all at once is because if they made a huge update the performance may decrease again so they do it slowly in each up which makes the make perform the same as the previous update.
ever since 1.12, the game performance only got worse for me, even with the "performance improvements", I need to have the optimization mods to be able to play 1.19 with a playable framerate, and my pc is from 2017
Thoughts on this as someone who knows programming and Java: I believe it was stated before (forgot where) that the Java code base is a mess and a complete spaghetti code during its early days. I believe that's also the reason why the terrain generation for the Caves and Cliffs update has taken too long, since they have to rework the entire code base of that feature, along with various rendering optimizations. Don't get me wrong, I'm not protecting them, but if they really did want to optimize the game, they could; it would only take more than a year or two as the code base was done by the "Old Mojang" and thus, needs to be studied, analyzed, and grasp completely before they can touch it. One wrong code and it may spell doom for the entire game as it could lead to various rendering glitches and other similar stuff. Furthermore, the game (I think) still uses the old OpenGL library used by Notch and their team. Sure, they can update that but it's a freaking tedious task to update libraries or frameworks as you'll have to manually check all the codes you have to update the methods and variables that were changed. TL;DR: Optimization is possible but will take a very long time due to how the code base was programmed.
Haven't seen a source code for one so I really can't say. I mean, I'm just a new modder as well and just learning how the mod loaders such as forge, fabric, etc, work. I'll get back to the question within this month after I do a scan from either sodium or Optifine to further explain how they work.
@@craftguyl3307 again, mojang can't add some optimization and then if it completely crashes the game just delete it, they should develop perfect solution and it takes time like one said. But they definitely could do this and I hope they do
@@craftguyl3307 When they do, it comes at a cost. Especially because it's Java, I worked with Java a few times and it can become quite messy, and remember, they want to make the game modifiable too
@@craftguyl3307 Mods add code on top of the game and change it, but what op is talking about is changing the engine. Think about it this way, mods are a more aerodynamic chassis for the car, but at the end of the day it's still limited by the engine. What op is talking about is putting a new engine in the car, which would have a lot more impact than any of the mods. However, it could break a lot of them too and as op said it takes a lot of time.
I think Mojang bringing Gnembon on to the team may be something to do with this. He has a deep understanding of the inner workings and with Carpet, how to mess around with bits. It's a different, outsider's view of the workings that may help. Either that or they just really liked his accent.
I use a mid end laptop to play Minecraft and I definitely agree that you have to download at least a few mods to make the game bearable. This gets even worse depending on which biome I'm in. In a jungle, my FPS drops to about 25 when it should be at 60 or higher.
My laptop has a quad core i7, 16GB DDR4, GeForce MX 450, and NVME SSD. I definitely need OptiFine to get 16 chunk render distance. But yeah, jungles absolutely kill my FPS.
One of the main reasons why they aren't able to implement this stuff is the modding platforms/how jumbled the source code is. Looking at fabric, people are given tools and stuff to build around and slightly into the game. However looking at Minecraft source code, it's apparent that the games code wasn't organized and as a result it just got worse. That's why they redid it in C+ as bedrock edition. (Bugrock lol)
It's not that the source code isn't organised. It's just that the algorithms they use aren't optimal like most game companies do. The same applies to bedrock edition. If bedrock had a "well organised" source code, it wouldn't be having bugs. The reason it performs better is just bcz it was written in C++. And messing up in C++ is very easy as it's a complex language.
You have no idea what you're on about. They wrote Before in c++ because it's ALOT better to code an optimised game in c++ than Java. Remember, everything in Bedrock needs to run on mobile too.
I see why they would be disappointed. If mojang spent an entire update dedicated to optimizing the game and adding a small amount of content, then shouldn't this video not have to be made in the first place?
@@pringle409 I know several people that were locked out of modern minecraft when 1.14 happened, and 1.15 is what let them back in Yes, it's not 1.8, but at least it made the game a lot more playable
@@steveminecraft5887 I understand what you are saying. But there have been updates like 1.16 and 1.18 adding a buttload of new features. In a game with a small number of features, adding one new features can cause a number of issues, however after 4 updates bringing with them even more stuff, adding just one feature can cause an even greater number of issues. Also, major world generation changes were mostly done after the bees update.
That's because it didn't improve anything. It just reverted changes from 1.14 that hindered performance. Mojang has been doing kind of the bare minimum in terms of performance for years and it has backfired now
something i feel is not talked about a lot because people just never noticed it is that 1.18 had HUGE client lag improvements over 1.17, but due to the world height increasing at the same time, it looks about the same. 1.17 did however have a feature that allowed data packs to change world size. i played on a 384 height world in 1.17 using a datapack, and it was so laggy i could rarely even pause the game. now i play every day and even stream with that same world height using 1.18+ to not consider the world height changes between those versions is to give bias towards 1.17. and to ignore just how much optimization went into 1.18
Im pretty sure 1.15 was the optimisation update. They needed to do it because of the beefy nether update. Also iirc mojang was going to work with optifine to incorporate it into vanilla but they couldnt agree on what to do with the optifine capes so it went nowhere
This is just a theory, but it's possible that because the Mojang staff most likely have incredibly high-end PCs, they may not notice various random lag spikes as much as your average Minecraft player. This could be part of the reason why they haven't made as many changes to Java's performance.
that's actually terrible if it is the case. minecraft seems like one of those games where in the future you'll need an expensive ass high end PC in order to even run it at 60fps max. hopefully they fix SOMETHING
In my opinion, what I want to see for a Minecraft update isn't simply a performance update. Performance would be a part of it, but in general I feel what Minecraft needs is a parity update. Weird differences between versions like bedrock not animating skeleton bows, java not animating drowned swimming, the drowned spawn rates being really bad in opposite ways, bedrock pistons moving containers, java redstone being actually functional, cakes being stackable on bedrock, and bedrock also needs a more useful offhand or at least the ability to put tools in there so mending can be used better. Just focus on more parity like that alongside optimization along the way, and best case scenario, return to the experimental combat snapshots and try to actually finalize those as well. Basically: parity, optimizations, and combat (which is arguably part of parity, a parity update would need a compromise on the combat system) would make for an actually great update, and I don't think there'd be as much resistance against it as 1.15, because while we wouldn't be getting new features, players using 1 version will get interesting stuff that for some reason is exclusive to the other, and there'd be less weird differences between versions for people who play both.
Minecraft was simple and while it's nice to have new stuff it's making things complicated and slow, we need atleast preformens updates every now and then
Something to keep in mind: Mojang's Minecraft dev team is quite small. Smaller than a few of the mod teams, even. It's how they can afford to keep freely updating the game, and it's why they put so much effort into ensuring they allocate resources in important directions via community feedback. Optimizing a game as old as Minecraft can be quite tricky, and while absolutely doable, it would require Mojang slow down on developing and implementing new content. Thus while doing so would benefit the game more than a new biome or mob, it would anger a majority of the consumer base that has grown accustomed to their stream of content. Just look at the response when they had to split C&C into two parts specifically because the new terrain generation demanded greater optimization.
there's absolutely no reason for mojang's team to be that small. they make incomparable amounts of money just by existing. And even if Mojang decided to slow down to improve performance and redoing the game, we wouldn't lose much in content anyways, because the game is rarely uptated at the normal rate
I forgot this was even a thing, because I use performance mods all the time. I don't even make my own modpacks anymore, I just download Fabulously Optimized, add 2 mods (custom skin server + 3d skins), add a custom config and then just set it up like normal.
Comparing the work environment for both modders and Mojang might give some insight. For example, modders are able to hyper-focus on one specific area of the game, and have no obligation to quality control. Mojang has to keep everything polished and consider its impact on the game, and they’ve got to have their priorities perfectly straight.
Yes, but actually no :) Considering the quantity and types of bugs that are currently in the game, I would say their commitment to quality is more wishful thinking than real work and QA processes being put in place. And while I agree that there is a huge difference between working on your own as a modder vs working for a company, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that stops Mojang for hiring "clienside rendring guy" or "main simulation loop guy" to analyse, clean up, fix, improve and document these areas of the codebase.
@@Dankos256 I think I see your point to some extent. I think they do have someone who's sole job is optimization on the team. I'd like to point out that a cooperate workplace is a very complex environment, so the best solution is not often the most obvious one, and some things can be infeasible for rather obscure and complex reasons
i switched to bedrock modding and server development due to java server performance turning to aids, and bedrock modding and server tools actually getting way better,the only problem is getting players to the server or distribute mods so other people could enjoy it
@@legitbox bro the mod support is not better and if you mean microsoft gives you tools, java has better community tools instead of being forced to use their own tools. So mods are more limited and there are just less options that you can change to your liking.
@@IAm-zo1bo first of all nobody is enforcing the mod tools microsoft gives to you, while yes, the modding tools and the community is in its infancy, i myself cannot deny that its getting better and more advanced every day
Minecraft's performance got worse when they changed the world limit. If I jump back to 1.16.5, it's really smooth, with no mods. I get an average of 200fps on the base game, but still get lag spikes. Mojang really need to fix this.
Yeah, performance is degrading with each update. I miss the smoothness in gameplay from 1.13 to 1.16. Those were the times when I could reasonably handle Minecraft with shaders and 60fps. Not anymore :')
@@FizzyBanger lol people complained that 1.13 and 14 are so performance poor comparing to 1.12 which is true I guess in 5 years people will say "when I launch 1.19 and it's so smooth and fast, I miss the ol days of Minecraft!!!"
@@ИванИванов-я9ы8н Yeah pretty sure 1.13 and 1.14 were terrible in terms of performance which they mostly fixed in later updates. People just generally don't care about anything other than tangible additions and don't really bother to check the actual patch notes.
As a person who plays on the Nintendo Switch version of Minecraft I honestly think that this version of the game needs the most optimization because it crashes, breaks, has horrendous load times, and the multilayer is so, so very buggy. The game is almost completely unplayable and I get frustrated seeing what mods can do with performance when I can never access them. Java's problems bad, I hear you, but there is just a version of the game sitting there being mocked by the community because of how bad it is! So in short if anyone needs an update so desperately it is the Nintendo switch version.
For Mojang, (or more likely Microsoft) getting people to play Bedrock Edition is more desirable then fixing Java because of the higher profit potential. It's no secret they're pressuring Java players to move over.
Buddy, Java is the more nostalgia based version of Minecraft and the first version of the game. Why would Microsoft force people to move to bedrock? If they did that, it would be a publicity crisis if they did that. Stop trying to make people paranoid.
@@sufi09853 They slowly renamed the games so that the original game is now Java Edition and Bedrock edtion is now named to be the main game: "Minecraft for Windows". You also can't buy the games separately so that you only pay for Java, you need to buy Bedrock too. There are Bedrock exclusive events and stuff as well. It is reasonable to think that the bad optimalization of Java is intentional so that lower-end pc players are pushed towards Bedrock.
“fast render engine” could be an option in settings menu to start pushing optimizations to vanilla w/o breaking anyone’s game (dedicating an update is actually a really good idea cause it gives enough time to iron out the bugs and perhaps add fancy shader style shadows to minecraft vanilla)
As a performance mod developer, and developer for a very large client. I can explain some of the behind the scene reasons why its harder for Mojang to add optimizations. 1) Development process Software development is usually done using Git, I'm not going to get into the technical's. However lets say two developers are working on separate optimizations, optimizations usually require large reworks of code across the codebase. The problem is that these changes are going to conflict, and you will need to fix that, its not that hard... until you have 30 people doing it at the same time. It can get really messy, and hard to maintain. The only real solution is to split parts of the game into libraries, allowing you to make changes to a separate project without conflicts. However it will nearly always come at a cost, which is usually performance or flexibility. 2) Maintainability Code can be really hard to maintain. Writing good maintainable code takes a lot more time and effort, you need to think about the future. What features might this need in the future, how could I write it to support all my goals and dreams. This can come at a slight performance cost, however the flexibility is usually worth it. For example, in 1.13 Mojang changes the way blocks are stored and saved, since in 1.12 they where limited to a specific amount of block ID's. However now its infinite, which is crucial for continued development of the game. (however it did come at a performance cost) Optimizations usually result in the code being hard to read and understand, and it takes some getting use to and good documentation. Which costs more time, and effort. Plus you need to think about these optimizations when adding changes, which makes it harder to maintain. 3) Marketability You already mentioned this so ill skim through it. Mojang makes money on content, not performance. So mojang will only optimize the game to a point where its slightly below average users can play fine. It's not worth the time, effort, and maintainability to support these client. Plus there are mods & clients that can do it for them, and clients have there own development teams that will keep them maintained. 4) They are optimizing the game! Mojang actually writes tons of optimizations, and they are usually incredible performance gains. However you usually never notice them since the optimizations where written to counter the losses that where created for that update. In 1.17 they increased the world height. The performance of chunk loading/unloading should have halved, and been nearly unplayable. However huge optimizations where done behind the scenes, and it ended up being slightly faster than it was before. There are tons of examples I could give. Mojang does optimize the game, however they can only optimize so much. So they prioritize the most critical/important optimizations based on what they have planned in the coming updates. Final notes, with my experience. Optimizations can take 2-5x longer to write than adding a game mechanic, which makes it a real time sink for a business. However Mojang does optimize its game, and sadly it does seem to be getting slower every other update. However the modding community never gives up and is willing to make up for the lack of time. On that note, go download MemoryLeakFix and MoreCulling xD Re: Optifine is a flaming piece of garbage in modern versions compared to optimization mods. That and it has 0 mod compatibility, so I highly recommend against using it
Optifine has been going down hill lately. Even they have bugs they will not fix. Optifine is incompatible with most other mods now like twilight forest.
I am a Bedorck player and that is the arguement i use when having to "defend" bedrock from the hate it gets. Due to the nature of bedrock it doesnt have a lot of these 3rd party mods. But the fact that in order to run Java you essentially NEED mods or client its crazy. I do play both Java and Bedrock and ive been playing bedrock since release. Whether microsoft are actively slowing down Java production to advertise the money making bedrock is also worth talking about. Both have there amazing postives, but both have these simply absurd downsides too, which is borderline unthinkable since minecraft is the most sold game of all time.
@@elger99 I am aware of a few clients, though none of them are "performance enhancing" just more gameplay features. They are really cool! But they aren't very well known and even less used.
@@elger99 I've actually never seen a Bedrock client which truly enhances frame performance. All these clients have is a disgusting looking UI and they bring a handful of Optifine features over like side grass and connected glass. They don't do anything with improving performance, but they call themselves "FPS clients" 😂 I guess the 11 year olds keep the business running.
@@dee23gaming this is how I know you don't play bedrock (Windows 10), You never Heard of BitLocker you're just another player That just Says stuff because they never actually done it themselves. Why would I be defending bedrock If these things's wasn't true I literally own all of Mojang's Games..
wow, I'm really blessed to know that anyone from that early subscribed to the channel. Hope you enjoy the new content, because it's definitely different from when I started :)
it really is so unfortunate that they split the game into two different codebases/engines. And the java codebase is working with decade old code that they are constantly building on. No matter which way you slice it, this game was NOT meant for longevity/consistency. And that's the biggest problem with the development of Minecraft that, sadly, has no real solution unless they built it from scratch again.
It is a difficult situation for the developers because Java is not a great codebase (I'M NOT SAYING JAVA IS BAD) but obviously they couldn't get rid of it.
@@BoroPhil i think both codebases are extremely flawed for very different reasons that's why hytale is exciting to me, because they are coding it specifically to be ONE code/engine that can work on multiple platforms, and it is meant for longevity/to be future-proof.
You shouldve looked into java itself to understand why Java Edition is getting worse performance with each update. For Java there is the JDK (Java Development Kit) and "Java" / JRE (Java Runtime Environment) which is what you install inorder to run java apps like minecraft. The JRE is running the JVM (Java Virtual Machine) since Java apps do not run on machine hardware, they run off of the Java Virtual Machine. The benefit of this is so that you can run the same app without consideration for which platform it is being run on since each platform just needs to have a JRE to run the app through the JVM but, This is also one of the main reasons as to why performance in minecraft java edition is poor. Since your device isnt running minecraft natively but through the virtual machine: it uses more resources dedicated to the virtual machine on top of the app. But on top of that Java uses a Garbage Collector it's there to monitor and manage the memory/data of the app and how its used. This is to prevent memory leaks without having programmers actively do memory management within their code. The Garbage Collector is constantly running when a java app is running and the more memory/data it has to keep track of the more it hogs resources and performance; thus why the more things added to Java edition as a whole the more performance in Java Edition gets worse.
06:50 i do never use mods to make my game get more fps, just change some settings and the game will run fine. (i do not have a weak pc but also not a power full one.)
I dont know if mojang actually did this, but i think they are in "technical debt" which means that they just kept adding codes that should be fixing codes that were supposed to fix another bug that caused these perfomance bugs instead of re-writing the codes. Its like putting a rug on ta dirty floor and then putting another rug on the that other older rug instead of just cleaning the floor
The language itself is fine, no better or worse than C++ like what's used for bedrock, the problems will always lie in how the people coding it order and execute things.
nah, a modpack called gtnh with hundreds of mods with thousands of times the content and progression gets way more fps than vanilla minecraft. this is mojang being completely incompetent.
It's true that Java executes slower than C++, but it's not the case here. For the current size of Minecraft as a game, it should perform much better than it is performing now. The only reason I could think of is that they haven't used optimal algorithms like most game industries do. The same applies to bedrock as we encounter bugs and also the fact that bedrock is multithreaded . Also Java is a popular language in the field of software development and this the reason there are a lot of mods for Java.
@@thelemonsheep7257 jokes tend to have an indication that they are a joke. there’s plenty of people who don’t understand things like it being coded in Java isn’t the issue and if someone says something like that we can’t always know it was joke, so we try to help them understand :)
What I hope to see in the future is not just performance, but a quality of life expansion. We're already seeing improvements in signs, map making, and other things along with the performance upgrades; so making the game feel better all around should be a focus at some point, drop small quality of life packages along with performance updates Oh yeah, I play with sodium (after ditchign forge modding) and it is INCREDIBLY stable. I can see it being implemented into the game because it adds few additional features (like the optifine capes and zoom) but refines the base game
I’ve seen a lot of videos of people explaining why MC Java performance is not great. This is because of Java itself. MC bedrock was made in C++, and that programming software can handle way more than Java can (which is why bedrock is so smooth and can render 92 chunks).
Bedrock vs Java aside, there has been noticeable declines in performance with each Java update. This video doesn't cover the Bedrock vs Java performances, just how Java alone has performed over time. Bedrock vs Java deserves another, more technical video, honestly :)
It's probably not as simple as taking code from mods because of licensing issues. For instance, Sodium is licensed under LGPL-3.0, meaning Mojang would have to make public and changes they make to that code, which probably means they'd need to publish a lot of Minecraft code. I think there's some legal precedent for not-quite copying: if developers look at the general concept of code and copy that, that's a copyright violation, so they'd still need to respect the license.
I was hoping that you would also adress the issue of recent Java updates, for me personally, my interest towards the game dropped in the recent updates especially when they changed the world creation menu to match the style of bedrock, I very much prefer the old menu. Their actions to merge Java and bedrock, drove me to quit playing the game. It won't be long when we have to pay to install mods into Minecraft or they would make some kind of Subscription only Features
I feel like no matter what this issue will always be reached at some point due to the fact that more stuff keeps getting added and they have the ability to do that because technology in the real world is constantly being improved on allowing games to have more stuff in it due to being able to handle it, so if you have an older pc the problems with quality are just waaaay more noticeable and common
I downloaded a mod called Modern Beta which basically makes the overworld generate terrain like it would do in beta 1.7.3, but I have access to all 1.19 stuffs and features. But because the old world terrain doesn't have too much in it in the overworld, I get about 600-1000 frames per second wherever I move. If I play normal 1.19 with all the bland terrains, I get like 200 frames with Optifine...
@@empty9926 i do agree with that lmao, even beying a bedrock modder, i can say that the marketplace is basically useless, especially that mod communities exist
Well, I went into Bedrock edition's microtransactions a long time ago, and why they actually provide a huge revenue stream for Mojang (because kids will buy anything). Bit speculative, but I think the reason why we've had free updates and maintenance of the game in recent years is because of nicrotransactions bankrolling the developers. Java is still extremely important for Minecraft's brand image, as all the big creators seem to play on it, and drive players to the game. But I think Bedrock just has more money to be made in it, and it's so they can support both Java and Bedrock. This is all just my opinion.
as someone with a potato for a pc, i thought this was just my computer being ass. however, seeing that it is not only me really made me realize how right you were in every aspect. as i play minecraft i have horrible fps that makes building/moving difficult, the chunk generation is horrible and sometimes i can in a completely unloaded chunk floating for a couple of minutes till it renders. not to mention how minecraft uses literally 90-99% of my GPU's power and makes anything else on my computer undoable. i hope mojang does quickly take action to make minecraft more playable since i cannot install mods for whatever reason and have to use all the minimal settings to play smoothly
Remake the entire thing in C++ but as a standalone game. Cuz the issues with Bedrock probably rooted from the crossplay… and the same exact thing running and has to be supported in different devices.
even with optifine my 8 year old acer aspire xc-703 desktop pc has constant lag spikes and around 10 fps and has a giant lag spike when joining a server / world, and even after upgrading from 4 to 8 gb of ram it is only slightly better where there is still the giant lag spike when joining but very few lag spikes after that and around 20 fps, but bedrock edition runs GREAT on it.
if it is created for java via the community, Mojang doesn't bother to do it again. For bedrock, thanks to DRM and platform limitations where the community doesn't really own the game/devices, they are designing those features but only for bedrock, take a look at marketplace map creator tools or in-game editor mode. (they flat out stated "we only are doing this for bedrock")
I play Bedrock because it just runs better on my pc. Also moving hoppers without mods. Lots of other stuff is behind but the key things I like for quality of life work. The primary issues for bedrock are Redstone updates have a seemingly random order, making fast piston doors hard the piston thing but rewritten so it looks like a second point
they are slowly fixing the redstone, on java it will always be broken cause people love the quasi connectivity even tho it was a bug that the developers keep in and break immersion.
idk why anyone would run beyond 60fps, to be honest. That's my limit, and I don't need any more to enjoy the block game. Plus, I'm pretty sure running at stupidly high fps degrades a PC faster (could be just something I heard wrong).
The more fps you have the lower the input delay. Even if your monitor is 60hz if you play at 120fps then you will feel less input delay compared to 60 fps
@@FizzyBanger there is a point if you have a high-refresh rate monitor, as it will look more smooth. but if you're running 9001 fps you really don't need that
As a person who mostly plays mod packs from 1.12.2 to change the game completely, this does not affect me much. However, my friends wanted to play the latest vanilla version on a server once, and the dedicated server was doing fine initially. Still, later on, it started to lag, lag really badly. I discovered that it has to do something with the java garbage collector. If they want to fix the root cause of server lag they will most likely have to re-write or improve code, which will take a while. A Minecraft server is limited to 1 thread, it does stuff in order, and it makes the world of zero-tick Redstone contraptions work. That's why I wouldn't say I like mods such as paperMC since they change how the game works since they run on multiple threads and update things at different times. Also, when running a Minecraft server, I recommend using Linux. The CPU is what matters the most when running a Minecraft server, most people say that "if the server is lagging, just give it more RAM" but if there is too much RAM the garbage collector will become slower and slower until the server is unplayable, the CPU speeds matter for the garbage collector, the garbage collector is multithreaded, but the server itself is not so that's why I would say to go for high single-thread performance wich intel is usually better with, don't use websites like cpubenchmark.net as they show false information most of the time. To make the garbage collector better, I changed the startup line for it, it unlocks excremental features but it makes the garbage collector more smooth over time. All in this comment is from my personal experience of running servers for a while, correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm still learning some stuff about running Minecraft servers. If anyone has any tips, please reply!
What ChatGPT thought of the comment: There are several aspects to this comment, so let's address them one by one: Mod packs: It is true that running mod packs can change the game completely and may not be affected by changes to the vanilla version of the game. Server lag: It is also true that server lag can be caused by the Java garbage collector, which is responsible for managing memory in the game. However, there can be many other factors that contribute to server lag, including network latency, server hardware, and the number of players on the server. Multithreading: It is correct that Minecraft servers are limited to one thread and that some mods, such as PaperMC, can run on multiple threads. Running a server on Linux can also improve performance, as Linux is generally better optimized for server workloads than Windows. RAM vs. CPU: It is true that simply adding more RAM to a server may not solve performance issues and can actually make them worse if the garbage collector is unable to keep up. CPU speed and single-threaded performance are important factors in running a Minecraft server, and Intel CPUs are generally better in this regard. However, it's worth noting that this can vary depending on the specific CPU model and other factors. Overall, the comment appears to be mostly accurate in its assessment of running Minecraft servers and some of the factors that can affect performance. However, there are always exceptions and variations depending on specific configurations, hardware, and software, so it's important to keep an open mind and be willing to experiment and learn.
I've heard that one of the biggest problems is that Minecraft was written as a single-threaded application because of the limits of available hardware back when it first came out and making it utilise multiple threads would most likely require Mojang to completely rewrite the game which would obviously be a lot of work.
I can't believe that these people, despite their best efforts and super competence, in a team of 600 PEOPLE, are unable to copy already fixed optimization issues and are able to create so little new things in a game with the simplest graphics imaginable. I don't care to what extent it is their laziness, management or anything else. They are creating a game for hundreds of millions of lives and if they are not competent to solve the problems or they are not smart enough, these people should be fired immediately. There are many optimization solutions and many more interesting updates than the 15th type of wood. (btw, changing chunk height from 256 to 384 I guess also didn't help. For example, in hytale chunk is 32x32x32 which allows for more optimization + infinite height choice potential, but I understand that it would require being competent on their part and doing a lot of work so... yes, it will never happen) I feel like the problem is that not many gamers know much about game development, so there's A CHANCE that their opinion of the amount of work Mojang does might not be based on reality. (I think I have some experience, but not much and I'm not working at Mojang, so I'm not sure, just a guess based on my limited knowledge) So does Mojang do a lot or little work? If you answered yes without understanding this specific game making process or any of the mechanics involved in making Minecraft, congratulations! Thanks to you we are MORE LIKELY to get the 16th differently contrasted wood texture.I recommend makeshift social pressure. This game is my childhood and I want to see its full potential, as do hundreds of millions of people.
they can't, they tried to get optfine in the game and the creator did not want to do it, they cant't copy his work that would have legal issues. microsoft could ahve codded they own fixes, and if you look at changelog they do fixes alot of stuff the caves and cliffs update got the most performance update but at the same time the world size increased so the performance buffs mostly just keep the same, and lets be real here, java does have some overhead due to running virtualized, high level languages are always slower, even if microsoft could add sodium and all optmization mods no matter what they do it woud still run worse than a C++ coded game, so its just a waste of time really. i think microsoft is being way too kind on keeping supporting the old version they jsut waste money time and development that could be focused on the game with the superior engine, so we could get even more bug fixes and a better game cross platform for everyone. only reason java is relevant is cause of mods, but as soon as a good mod support is added to bedrock edition theres no point going back to it at all.
@@gabrielandy9272 Thanks, I knew about the levels of code abstraction but honestly I didn't know what the real difference in performance was between such c++ and java because I never played Bedrock and when I looked at the language rankings, java was worse than c++ but practically always these languages were adjacent to each other so I assumed that the difference is not great. I didn't know that they differ in their approach to performance, that Java is an interpreted language and C++, on the other hand, is a compiled language and compiles directly into machine code. It's just sad that the java version is doomed :( I hope over time they focus on developing the Bedrock version when they add mod support like you said. I hope that now they are actually tryharding to get closer to Java version so that, for example, redstone does not suck. I hope that's why they seem to be doing nothing from the sidelines, and not for the reasons I blamed them before... but it's still sus imo
Not to mention that if Mojang attempted to incorporate similar methods of performance enhancement, and similar to Optifine, had some side effects and issues that hindered the experience, Mojang would receive far more backlash for it. If the latest version of Optifine were to have some massive rendering issues, then big deal, it's just a mod. If Mojang made a whole update centered around it and had similar rendering issues, I could only imagine the huge levels of backlash they'd receive.
mojang spesificaly doesnt put much attention to improving performance BECAUSE there is already mods out there to help with that. the DL;DR is that they tend to not implement things into vanilla that already exist in a mod in some way. this doesnt just extend to performance mods either. take the numerous quality of life mods that are widely used by the tech community such as litematica, minihud or carpetmod just to name a few. pretty much all the things in these mods should be implemented into vanilla in some way, as they do nothing more than add functionality that should have been in the game for years by now. but as you said new and shiny stuff is always more interesting and sells better than boring things like fixing the massive inventory issue that is getting worse and worse with each passing update or finally fixing the combat system thats been broken since 1.9. so the basic rule of thumb is that if theres a mod for it, the chances of it ending up in vanilla at some point vanish into thin air bc mojang doesnt want to add things from mods, nor care about adding things from mods since if you want to have it, theres already a mod for it.
for me personally since 1.18 update it's been harder to play the game without mods specially when optifine doesn't come out that early but since the day I heard optifine was even before these new updates I just downloaded it not for just the performance improvements, also the features and details that it added but I agree that the player that just wants to play the game shouldn't have to download mods in order to be able to play the game Great Video!❤
Find it interesting how wildly javas performance varies system to system, newer versions run great on this rather old ivybridge xeon with or w/o optifine but recently have been playing in 1.14 world and it is prone to random lag spikes. Though it does seem Mojang is aware of the inconsistency since telemetry is collecting system performance metrics.
I have had some major issues with lag since upgrading from 1.16 to 1.18 last summer. At first, I was trying everything, such as moving my worlds I wasn't using out of my Minecraft folder, lowering all of my settings as low as possible, and making sure to close every other program when playing. And playing with the lowest specs possible wasn't fun, especially when still getting lag spikes. I couldn't play the game. I couldn't do things like explore caves because getting into a fight with a bunch of skellies when you freeze every 5 seconds is a challenge I didn't sign up for. Thankfully, most issues with this have been solved with re-installing Optifine. I'm also fortunate that I have a mid-specs PC, or it could be much worse. I really think that Mojang should do more about optimizing performance in 1.20. I wouldn't theme a whole update for it because I agree, it would be a lackluster update to many. But just slowly introduce some tweaks to the game in the next few updates that really help performance. Some things there should be mods for, and some things should just be in the base game. Performance is definitely one of the things that should be in the game.
Today I loaded up a few older versions to try out some seeds, and I forgot how much better the game used to run. Even as recently as 1.16, worlds loaded so much faster. But even earlier versions had way better frame rates.
This is (kinda) the same problem we have with Fallout 3, New Vegas and Skyrim (Legacy Edition), its just an old codebase with spaghetti code, wringling on ancient libraries. Just to alleviate performance issues, while mantaining the quality (remember, to the developer, its easier to have it working, but slow, than working fast but breaking ever so often) that they need to deliver.
well there was already the bugs and bees update where they tried to improve the user experience, they fixed a lot of bugs and improved performance significantly. but the community didn't like that update and thats a reason why i think they will not do another performance centered update in the near future.
I've had a huge problem for a few days. It all probably started after the last launcher update. The game started sometimes and sometimes didn't, and "exit code: 1" appeared, and sometimes my computer restarted. However, we still managed to play occasionally for a few days. I have been playing for 4 years on version 1.16.5 with a permanent, unchanged mod pack. A few days ago it stopped turning on at all. All attempts ended with a computer reset. I uninstalled all mods except forge 36.2.39. Minecraft has started. I started adding one mod at a time. It turned out that the culprit was Inventory Tweaks. The game started for me with all the other mods. Today I tried to look for a similar mod to inventory tweaks. I found inventory profiles next. I installed it. Exit code 1 popped up. I deleted it again. The game stopped starting. I removed all mods except forge mod. The game does not start. I tried running clean version 1.16.5 without forge mod. The game does not start. I deleted all minecraft and reinstalled it. I ran 1.16.5 vanilla. I repeated the operation several times, because sometimes the game started and sometimes the computer was reset. I decided to install several other versions of forge 36.2.20, 36.2.29, 36.2.39, 36.2.34. Similar effect. I installed java 17. The effect is the same. Now I can't even run pure Minecraft 1.16.5 because it freezes and resets my computer. I don't know what to do anymore. The most interesting thing is that on the second, older computer, where the same minecraft 1.16.5 and the same mods are installed. To be sure, I only removed this inventory tweaks mod. The game starts. The difference between the computers is that the old one still has Win 7 (I have Win10) and the launcher has not been updated. (I play on the server with my daughter, so that's why I have the same Minecraft). Now we can't play together because I can't run minecraft with mods on my computer in any way. Can anyone help? I don't know what to do anymore, especially since vanilla doesn't even start. Please HELP. PS. The serwer on my computer also dont start. When I click start, then freeze windows and reset hole komputer.
One of the largest reasons we see performance issues is the inherently unoptimized code written for the game. To cut a long, technically complicated, and confusing story short, Mojang has had several instances where things have been written in extremely inefficient ways just because it's the standard way of writing something in Java, even re-writing old code that was perfectly functional to be less efficient simply to meet standards. The way block positions are handled is one of the biggest reasons chunk gen/loading eats stupid amounts of memory and processing time clearing said memory, all because the system behind it is written in an inefficient way.
I feel like if Mojang does end up wanting to optimize the game, they should either implement the performance fixes over multiple updates, or they should do it in one update, but not entirely focus on performance as the main part of the update. This way, new features are still being released while the performance increases. I usually play on 1.12.2 and lower just so that I don't see these performance issues, even though I have OptiFine and Sodium. They can help with the overall FPS on newer versions, but I can't keep my render distance above 8 chunks or I get lag spikes, most likely due to having to load chunks while moving around. I don't feel like I should have to mod my game to fix performance, especially if I'm on a high-end laptop. Sorry for the wordiness, but this has been on my mind for months. Thank you for addressing the topic!
I will likely never play java version ever again. While I was playing java edition on a much older computer and that does explain the lag I had I just can't believe the difference in performance between java and bedrock. Bedrock version has only ever crashed for me once and that was during the dragon fight. Meanwhile when I played on java crashes were a common thing. I barely ever have framerate issues on bedrock version. The worst that I get is if I'm generating terrain quickly via flying the chunks take a few seconds to appear but there's still barely any lag. It's such a breath of fresh air over java version. Also the fact that the whole reason I stopped playing java version is that the 1.7 update just turned off all sound for me. It didn't matter if I had the ingame volume cranked, no sound.
As a bedrock player playing minecraft without our brothers from Java is not fun at all because both of us used to make challenges to see which one is better
Thank you everyone is saying how Microsoft/Mojang is "consistently updating Bedrock" and "desperately want people to switch" but they don't fix much on Bedrock.
I've been playing Java since the summer of 2013, and this rings very true. I can get 60 fps on the base game with no issues with good settings. But with optifine, can I get over 100% performance boost past 150 fps. It's insane why mojang doesn't fix their stuff
@@just.someguy5145 they can, it’s just that it would take absurdly long and nobody would think of it as worth it. They could still do it by hiring a side team to optimize the game to its starter code
i think they should hire a team to do specifically optimizations in sub updates. while the main team works on the main features. so optimized game could be listed in something like 1.20.1 for example. (doubtful that will happen honestly)
Man i actually really miss the "old" minecraft. I just miss the days before all the mods and massive content updates. Maybe it's because i just miss the days where everything was just so simple. That surely ain't the case no more.
The main problem that caused lag. This is that they have tripled (slightly more) the height of the world but have not changed the way chunks work. Due to the fact that the height of the chunk is loaded at once from the lowest to the highest point, its doubling, greatly affected the performance. If they had divided it into at least two horizontally (or better as often as vertically), there would not have been such lags. There is a mod for 1.12.2 which completely redesigns the work of the chunks and they become square rather than rectangular from the floor to the ceiling. This also removes the restriction on the height of the world, making it as huge vertically as horizontally
This is odd. I have a pretty standard PC, probably sub-standard in some areas, and I have never experienced frame rate issues while playing Java. Sometimes while playing on servers I get lag, but that is from my crappy internet. Great video though.
If you have anywhere over 10 gigs, and you have basically any CPU that isn’t ancient, you will be fine. People with 8 are also fine, but I think they can’t run Minecraft well because of other issues with their PC and stuff, and in top of that, Java purposely limits memory usage to either 2 or 4 gigs, which can be increased by editing the installation
One of the largest factors going jnto Mojang not being able to incorporate modders’ code is probably licensing. Sodium, for example, is licensed with a CopyLeft license, meaning that Mojang would have to open-source their own code and may be limited commercially with what the could do with Minecraft.
Hey I'm a game dev, and can comment on this. I know back in the day when Microsoft bought Minecraft the plan was to reach parity between Bedrock and Java edition. Then once that was reached they would deprecate and remove the Java edition leaving only Bedrock. I don't know if this is still the plan. The reason for this is Bedrock is written in C++ and built from the bottom up to be more efficient and optimized at every level, although the game is very huge so this has already taken many many years and may take many more to reach parity. Maintaining so many versions of Minecraft also makes it difficult as well, if they did an optimization update what happens to the versions that are not experiencing much lag? They just have the nothing update? Beyond this, sometimes huge rewrites on the backend are needed for optimization so actually, maybe they are already doing optimizations in the updates it is just they won't pay off until they reach a large scale (i.e. they have the base code there they just need to implement it everywhere slowly replacing all the old logic over many updates). But I think the real reason is that they don't want to focus on it unless it's enough of a problem that people would stop playing/buying the game. It's easier to focus on new features and fix bugs and let the performance slowly get worse until enough people complain and then do a big rewrite when the time comes. Especially with the modding community, most people who care about this enough are going to download optifine or something. The other factor is even if they do a large optimization it is going to break a lot of things that will later need to get fixed. It is incredibly complex and the reward vs cost may not be good enough yet.
Going off of this, if indeed they are still attempting to reach parity and then get rid of the java edition, they have no incentive to improve the java edition performance... it's just not worth the effort and instead the team can focus on optimizing the bedrock edition.
Hope you enjoyed this video! Now, I have given credit to some key sources for this video, which you can check in the description.
A lot of this wouldn't be possible without the people who've pointed out Java Edition's problems before me.
That being said, the game is still really fun, I'm still really excited for 1.20 and beyond. But I just hope I won't have to wait for Optifine to update to the latest version before I can enjoy the new features. And I hope those who mod their game do so from official sources :)
Personally I would complain about the performance too, if it wasn't for the fact that I play on a really god awful laptop, so I'm not saying anything lol. I'm just glad that these mods even exist
I think hardware is a big reason for a lot of the performance issue complaints online. Minecraft is not as simple a game as it once was. Hardware requirements go up with each update.
why can't they improve the game like they have on bedrock that's the main reason I haven't switched to Java edition
@@HintzeDarrin the thing is, bedrock is only so simplistic because of the amount of unsolved bugs they leave in. it's meant to be slow/buggy so smaller and less powerful devices can run it/
@@HintzeDarrin there are things in Bedrock such as chunk loading errors that Mojang refused to fix for some reason.
Fun fact: Mojang has tried to add Optifine officially into the game, but the reason it was never added was because the creator didn't agree to it being added.
There were issues on what to do with the optifine capes
Yeah, I watched TheMisterEpic's video on Optifine and learned all about the deal they tried to broker. Really interesting, and it was a bit silly for it to fall through because of some donor capes, but maybe it was for the best
Not like optifine doesn't cause issues by itself
@@clancysleepovergetyourblankies lol true
one of the reasons why the creator didnt want it to be official was because mojang would remove the capes
So really one of the biggest problems is that IF they tried to improve the performance people would just complain that they didn't add anything. -Kinda like they did with the Bees and Bugs update...-
@Jeff You said it. Even the Wild Update added a lot but people hated it because it didn't have _as much_ stuff as we thought it would.
@@costa-w3k Honestly, people having been waiting for the experimental combat changes to be added for real so that would be the perfect opportunity to make optimizations to the game while keeping people satisfied.
@@lasercraft32 yeah, experimental combat is great, i'd like to see it in actual update, i'm very upset that mojang screw it
I agree. While people do keep requesting, and I quote, "Dedicate an update to only bugfixes and performance changes and no new features", the moment Mojang reduces new content to dedicate time to fixes, they complain. An example is 1.20 itself. So far, we have had a decent lot of features. With them came a lot of fixes to old bugs, especially on bedrock. While people did compliment these efforts, they were shoved under the rug quickly. Now people are complaining 1.20 to be an underwhelming update, only a smidge better than 1.19.
@Jeff exactly. They either:
1) Ask for stuff that's just too excessive and unreal to be added. Their suggestions are too modded for the minecraft-ey feel, and then when stuff like Armor Trims get added, adding nothing but colour to vanilla Armor, they say it feels modded, because they saw Philza using it as a mod.
Or
2) They ask for stuff, get what they want, maybe a feature or two more, but then pull out the "not enough features for an update's worth" or "not as good as 1.16" card.
1.19.4 was insane in terms of performance improvements, it basically added the same optimisation that lazyDFU does into the vanilla game and there’s almost no lag spikes (for me at least) when chunk builder is on threaded.
I’m still going to be using sodium but it just shows mojang is going in the right direction
Having just seen the new update, I'm actually impressed that Mojang did improvements to DFU initialization. Didn't even know 1.19.4 was being released, it must have rolled out pretty quickly.
@@FizzyBanger not many people really talked about it cuz it was mostly technical changes. Also I forgot to mention resourcepacks load extremely fast in 1.19.4 compared to 1.19.2 because of the improvements to atlases
Since Mojang said that they will be putting out multiple minor updates every few months between the major updates, I'm hoping that they use them to slowly improve performance.
@@FizzyBanger your video is pointless now lol.
@@FizzyBanger I was just about to ask if you’d seen 1.19.4 yet, as this video is now effectively useless. Mojang is finally listening to us!
I absolutely agree you have to download at least 6 performance mods to make the game playable and still if you fly with elytra into chunks that you havent visited yet, the game will still render them very poorly.
And this is why I play Bedrock nowadays. I don't want to go through the headache of installing and worrying over possibly unupdated mods conflicting with each other, just to play a game I paid hard-earned money for.
@@Myrskylintu If this was like 5 years ago I would agree with you, but bedrock is on par with Java in terms of lag now. And it doesn't have any mods to make up for it. Bedrock is now most definitely a very inferior obsolete version
@@Cronalixz I played bedrock from 2016 to 2022. I got my first Windows device with a GTX 1650m in 2021. The only thing that helps is throwing more CPU and GPU at the game
@@Cronalixz I didn't even notice lol. I play pocket edition and yes it lags sometimes but that's if I load too much shi in one place. Last time I played java I well didn't play it was unplayable lol
Did you tried running multi-threading rendering on sodium? I got no such problem as you describing and i dont have greatest cpu in the world, so it helped me, may help you
I think "The problem with Bedrock Edition" video is fitting as a continuation. This is a really well built and detailed video, and Bedrock is worth mentioning too.
Agreed. It'd be most respectful for me to address both sides. I just need to actually learn more about Bedrock edition because I hardly play it
@@FizzyBanger i saw a guy called Stryxo talk about bedrock really well before, he played the game and did an analysis on the game based on his experience, worth checking out. And just to clarify, there is a lot more to mention other than just what he mentioned
@@FizzyBanger well it wouldn't be exactly fitting because bedrock edition runs great on my 8 year old acer aspire xc-703 desktop pc even before I upgraded it from 4 to 8 gb of ram, but java edition runs HORRIBLY even with optifine and 8gb of ram with one giant lag spike when I join a server / world, and 20 fps, and occasional lag spikes. And when it was on 4 gb of ram java edition had multiple HUGE lag spikes when joining, constant lag spikes every 3-10 seconds that lasted anywhere from half a second to a WHOLE MINUTE, and usually was at around 10 fps or 0 fps. (THAT INCLUDES single player. ) so bedrock edition has AMAZING performance while java edition has terrible performance even with optifine
also that pc has NO graphics card and a PENTIUM cpu
@@FizzyBanger well try running bedrock edition on the WORST PC u can find, as long as u set anti-aliasing to 1 then bedrock edition will run great on it(though if it is really bad then it would run better on the Nintendo switch though it would be entirely playable and no lag(setting anti-aliasing to 1 is just to remove input delay if u don't have a graphics card. ))
FYI, lazydfu isn't needed in 1.19.4 IIRC, since Mojang improved the vanilla DFU loading to just a few milliseconds, so it doesn't need to be lazy loaded anymore
Mojang is slowly improving the performance of Java Edition. Like in the *Cave* *&* *Cliffs* update, maybe they don't improve the performance all at once is because if they made a huge update the performance may decrease again so they do it slowly in each up which makes the make perform the same as the previous update.
minecraft is boring now
dies in server performance
@@LavaCreeperPeople sorry to hear that
@@LavaCreeperPeople Play other games and when you come back to Minecraft after a while you'll like it more
ever since 1.12, the game performance only got worse for me, even with the "performance improvements", I need to have the optimization mods to be able to play 1.19 with a playable framerate, and my pc is from 2017
Thoughts on this as someone who knows programming and Java:
I believe it was stated before (forgot where) that the Java code base is a mess and a complete spaghetti code during its early days. I believe that's also the reason why the terrain generation for the Caves and Cliffs update has taken too long, since they have to rework the entire code base of that feature, along with various rendering optimizations.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not protecting them, but if they really did want to optimize the game, they could; it would only take more than a year or two as the code base was done by the "Old Mojang" and thus, needs to be studied, analyzed, and grasp completely before they can touch it. One wrong code and it may spell doom for the entire game as it could lead to various rendering glitches and other similar stuff.
Furthermore, the game (I think) still uses the old OpenGL library used by Notch and their team. Sure, they can update that but it's a freaking tedious task to update libraries or frameworks as you'll have to manually check all the codes you have to update the methods and variables that were changed.
TL;DR:
Optimization is possible but will take a very long time due to how the code base was programmed.
How do mods improve the game then?
Haven't seen a source code for one so I really can't say. I mean, I'm just a new modder as well and just learning how the mod loaders such as forge, fabric, etc, work.
I'll get back to the question within this month after I do a scan from either sodium or Optifine to further explain how they work.
@@craftguyl3307 again, mojang can't add some optimization and then if it completely crashes the game just delete it, they should develop perfect solution and it takes time like one said. But they definitely could do this and I hope they do
@@craftguyl3307 When they do, it comes at a cost. Especially because it's Java, I worked with Java a few times and it can become quite messy, and remember, they want to make the game modifiable too
@@craftguyl3307 Mods add code on top of the game and change it, but what op is talking about is changing the engine. Think about it this way, mods are a more aerodynamic chassis for the car, but at the end of the day it's still limited by the engine. What op is talking about is putting a new engine in the car, which would have a lot more impact than any of the mods. However, it could break a lot of them too and as op said it takes a lot of time.
I think Mojang bringing Gnembon on to the team may be something to do with this. He has a deep understanding of the inner workings and with Carpet, how to mess around with bits. It's a different, outsider's view of the workings that may help.
Either that or they just really liked his accent.
Who is gnembon
@Muramasa he's a high tech minecraft modder. Very intelligent youtuber.
@@muramasa870 a SciCraft member and former computer science professor before he became a game developer.
I use a mid end laptop to play Minecraft and I definitely agree that you have to download at least a few mods to make the game bearable. This gets even worse depending on which biome I'm in. In a jungle, my FPS drops to about 25 when it should be at 60 or higher.
If you use the Cull Leaves mod, then the jungle leaves shouldn't cause as much lag. Have you tried that?
@@PineappleWappleMinecraftVids no, but I'll try it out. Thanks!
check what graphics setting you're at. If you are on fabulous change it to fancy or fast
also turn down biome blend
My laptop has a quad core i7, 16GB DDR4, GeForce MX 450, and NVME SSD. I definitely need OptiFine to get 16 chunk render distance. But yeah, jungles absolutely kill my FPS.
Honestly I think they purposely try to make the game run as bad as possible whilest still somehow convincing people to buy it.
The modding community 100% carries Java edition, if it weren't for them we'd probably only have updates on the bedrock edition
Facts
So java is good only because of mods?
One of the main reasons why they aren't able to implement this stuff is the modding platforms/how jumbled the source code is. Looking at fabric, people are given tools and stuff to build around and slightly into the game. However looking at Minecraft source code, it's apparent that the games code wasn't organized and as a result it just got worse. That's why they redid it in C+ as bedrock edition. (Bugrock lol)
It's not that the source code isn't organised. It's just that the algorithms they use aren't optimal like most game companies do. The same applies to bedrock edition. If bedrock had a "well organised" source code, it wouldn't be having bugs. The reason it performs better is just bcz it was written in C++. And messing up in C++ is very easy as it's a complex language.
You have no idea what you're on about. They wrote Before in c++ because it's ALOT better to code an optimised game in c++ than Java. Remember, everything in Bedrock needs to run on mobile too.
Last time they dedicated an update to optimization (the 1.15 Buzzy Bees update), the community was very disappointed. It won't happen again.
i liked that update
I see why they would be disappointed. If mojang spent an entire update dedicated to optimizing the game and adding a small amount of content, then shouldn't this video not have to be made in the first place?
@@pringle409 I know several people that were locked out of modern minecraft when 1.14 happened, and 1.15 is what let them back in
Yes, it's not 1.8, but at least it made the game a lot more playable
@@steveminecraft5887 I understand what you are saying. But there have been updates like 1.16 and 1.18 adding a buttload of new features.
In a game with a small number of features, adding one new features can cause a number of issues, however after 4 updates bringing with them even more stuff, adding just one feature can cause an even greater number of issues. Also, major world generation changes were mostly done after the bees update.
That's because it didn't improve anything. It just reverted changes from 1.14 that hindered performance. Mojang has been doing kind of the bare minimum in terms of performance for years and it has backfired now
something i feel is not talked about a lot because people just never noticed it is that 1.18 had HUGE client lag improvements over 1.17, but due to the world height increasing at the same time, it looks about the same. 1.17 did however have a feature that allowed data packs to change world size. i played on a 384 height world in 1.17 using a datapack, and it was so laggy i could rarely even pause the game. now i play every day and even stream with that same world height using 1.18+
to not consider the world height changes between those versions is to give bias towards 1.17. and to ignore just how much optimization went into 1.18
They actually released 1.19.4 this past week which finally fixes the game load time! No more lazydfu mod necessary, thank goodness.
Im pretty sure 1.15 was the optimisation update. They needed to do it because of the beefy nether update.
Also iirc mojang was going to work with optifine to incorporate it into vanilla but they couldnt agree on what to do with the optifine capes so it went nowhere
Yeah some reason community hate this update
This is just a theory, but it's possible that because the Mojang staff most likely have incredibly high-end PCs, they may not notice various random lag spikes as much as your average Minecraft player. This could be part of the reason why they haven't made as many changes to Java's performance.
That would mean they have horrible QA.
that's actually terrible if it is the case. minecraft seems like one of those games where in the future you'll need an expensive ass high end PC in order to even run it at 60fps max. hopefully they fix SOMETHING
In my opinion, what I want to see for a Minecraft update isn't simply a performance update.
Performance would be a part of it, but in general I feel what Minecraft needs is a parity update. Weird differences between versions like bedrock not animating skeleton bows, java not animating drowned swimming, the drowned spawn rates being really bad in opposite ways, bedrock pistons moving containers, java redstone being actually functional, cakes being stackable on bedrock, and bedrock also needs a more useful offhand or at least the ability to put tools in there so mending can be used better. Just focus on more parity like that alongside optimization along the way, and best case scenario, return to the experimental combat snapshots and try to actually finalize those as well.
Basically: parity, optimizations, and combat (which is arguably part of parity, a parity update would need a compromise on the combat system) would make for an actually great update, and I don't think there'd be as much resistance against it as 1.15, because while we wouldn't be getting new features, players using 1 version will get interesting stuff that for some reason is exclusive to the other, and there'd be less weird differences between versions for people who play both.
why does it matter if there's parity?
@@cleverman383 It doesn't, ignore that argument. The rest is facts.
@@cleverman383 off hand on bedrock can't be good cus touchscreen
@@Q9wihsioa what if you just had a spot on the screen to press to swap hands?
@@cleverman383 idk I don't play mobile it's just that bedrock has to be the same on all platforms so us on pc and console can't have off hand
Minecraft was simple and while it's nice to have new stuff it's making things complicated and slow, we need atleast preformens updates every now and then
Something to keep in mind:
Mojang's Minecraft dev team is quite small. Smaller than a few of the mod teams, even. It's how they can afford to keep freely updating the game, and it's why they put so much effort into ensuring they allocate resources in important directions via community feedback.
Optimizing a game as old as Minecraft can be quite tricky, and while absolutely doable, it would require Mojang slow down on developing and implementing new content. Thus while doing so would benefit the game more than a new biome or mob, it would anger a majority of the consumer base that has grown accustomed to their stream of content.
Just look at the response when they had to split C&C into two parts specifically because the new terrain generation demanded greater optimization.
there's absolutely no reason for mojang's team to be that small. they make incomparable amounts of money just by existing. And even if Mojang decided to slow down to improve performance and redoing the game, we wouldn't lose much in content anyways, because the game is rarely uptated at the normal rate
I forgot this was even a thing, because I use performance mods all the time. I don't even make my own modpacks anymore, I just download Fabulously Optimized, add 2 mods (custom skin server + 3d skins), add a custom config and then just set it up like normal.
Comparing the work environment for both modders and Mojang might give some insight. For example, modders are able to hyper-focus on one specific area of the game, and have no obligation to quality control. Mojang has to keep everything polished and consider its impact on the game, and they’ve got to have their priorities perfectly straight.
Yes, but actually no :) Considering the quantity and types of bugs that are currently in the game, I would say their commitment to quality is more wishful thinking than real work and QA processes being put in place. And while I agree that there is a huge difference between working on your own as a modder vs working for a company, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that stops Mojang for hiring "clienside rendring guy" or "main simulation loop guy" to analyse, clean up, fix, improve and document these areas of the codebase.
@@Dankos256 I think I see your point to some extent. I think they do have someone who's sole job is optimization on the team. I'd like to point out that a cooperate workplace is a very complex environment, so the best solution is not often the most obvious one, and some things can be infeasible for rather obscure and complex reasons
i switched to bedrock modding and server development due to java server performance turning to aids, and bedrock modding and server tools actually getting way better,the only problem is getting players to the server or distribute mods so other people could enjoy it
Bedrock also has many problems that Mojang just isn't fixing.
Bedrock is too limited
@@IAm-zo1bo 1. its on all platforms essencially
2. amazing modding support
3. stupidly good performance
where is the “too limiting” part
@@legitbox bro the mod support is not better and if you mean microsoft gives you tools, java has better community tools instead of being forced to use their own tools. So mods are more limited and there are just less options that you can change to your liking.
@@IAm-zo1bo first of all nobody is enforcing the mod tools microsoft gives to you, while yes, the modding tools and the community is in its infancy, i myself cannot deny that its getting better and more advanced every day
Minecraft's performance got worse when they changed the world limit. If I jump back to 1.16.5, it's really smooth, with no mods. I get an average of 200fps on the base game, but still get lag spikes. Mojang really need to fix this.
Yeah, performance is degrading with each update. I miss the smoothness in gameplay from 1.13 to 1.16. Those were the times when I could reasonably handle Minecraft with shaders and 60fps. Not anymore :')
chopped off the bottom half of the underground with a world editor
@@FizzyBanger lol people complained that 1.13 and 14 are so performance poor comparing to 1.12 which is true
I guess in 5 years people will say "when I launch 1.19 and it's so smooth and fast, I miss the ol days of Minecraft!!!"
@@ИванИванов-я9ы8н Yeah pretty sure 1.13 and 1.14 were terrible in terms of performance which they mostly fixed in later updates. People just generally don't care about anything other than tangible additions and don't really bother to check the actual patch notes.
@@gabor6200 nah 1.15 and 1.16 were not even close to 1.12.2
Yes no one cares unless you open the laggy game
Finally, he uploaded again
I9-13900KS, GeekForce RTX 4090, 128GB DDR5 and I still get 21 FPS 💀
Impossible
I got a Laptop with a Ryzen 5 6600H and a 3050 and got a lot of great performance mods. Looks the exact same and normally get 300-600 fps.
As a person who plays on the Nintendo Switch version of Minecraft I honestly think that this version of the game needs the most optimization because it crashes, breaks, has horrendous load times, and the multilayer is so, so very buggy. The game is almost completely unplayable and I get frustrated seeing what mods can do with performance when I can never access them. Java's problems bad, I hear you, but there is just a version of the game sitting there being mocked by the community because of how bad it is! So in short if anyone needs an update so desperately it is the Nintendo switch version.
y'all play java and bedrock edition?
me and my homies play legacy console
honestly, that's a vibe. I miss playing xbox 360 split screen Minecraft
Legacy console is the GOAT
For Mojang, (or more likely Microsoft) getting people to play Bedrock Edition is more desirable then fixing Java because of the higher profit potential. It's no secret they're pressuring Java players to move over.
Buddy, Java is the more nostalgia based version of Minecraft and the first version of the game. Why would Microsoft force people to move to bedrock? If they did that, it would be a publicity crisis if they did that. Stop trying to make people paranoid.
@@sufi09853The money they make with bedrock is massive, why would they not?
@@sufi09853 They slowly renamed the games so that the original game is now Java Edition and Bedrock edtion is now named to be the main game: "Minecraft for Windows". You also can't buy the games separately so that you only pay for Java, you need to buy Bedrock too. There are Bedrock exclusive events and stuff as well.
It is reasonable to think that the bad optimalization of Java is intentional so that lower-end pc players are pushed towards Bedrock.
“fast render engine” could be an option in settings menu to start pushing optimizations to vanilla w/o breaking anyone’s game (dedicating an update is actually a really good idea cause it gives enough time to iron out the bugs and perhaps add fancy shader style shadows to minecraft vanilla)
As a performance mod developer, and developer for a very large client. I can explain some of the behind the scene reasons why its harder for Mojang to add optimizations.
1) Development process
Software development is usually done using Git, I'm not going to get into the technical's. However lets say two developers are working on separate optimizations, optimizations usually require large reworks of code across the codebase. The problem is that these changes are going to conflict, and you will need to fix that, its not that hard... until you have 30 people doing it at the same time.
It can get really messy, and hard to maintain. The only real solution is to split parts of the game into libraries, allowing you to make changes to a separate project without conflicts. However it will nearly always come at a cost, which is usually performance or flexibility.
2) Maintainability
Code can be really hard to maintain. Writing good maintainable code takes a lot more time and effort, you need to think about the future. What features might this need in the future, how could I write it to support all my goals and dreams. This can come at a slight performance cost, however the flexibility is usually worth it. For example, in 1.13 Mojang changes the way blocks are stored and saved, since in 1.12 they where limited to a specific amount of block ID's. However now its infinite, which is crucial for continued development of the game. (however it did come at a performance cost)
Optimizations usually result in the code being hard to read and understand, and it takes some getting use to and good documentation. Which costs more time, and effort. Plus you need to think about these optimizations when adding changes, which makes it harder to maintain.
3) Marketability
You already mentioned this so ill skim through it. Mojang makes money on content, not performance. So mojang will only optimize the game to a point where its slightly below average users can play fine. It's not worth the time, effort, and maintainability to support these client. Plus there are mods & clients that can do it for them, and clients have there own development teams that will keep them maintained.
4) They are optimizing the game!
Mojang actually writes tons of optimizations, and they are usually incredible performance gains. However you usually never notice them since the optimizations where written to counter the losses that where created for that update.
In 1.17 they increased the world height. The performance of chunk loading/unloading should have halved, and been nearly unplayable. However huge optimizations where done behind the scenes, and it ended up being slightly faster than it was before.
There are tons of examples I could give. Mojang does optimize the game, however they can only optimize so much. So they prioritize the most critical/important optimizations based on what they have planned in the coming updates.
Final notes, with my experience. Optimizations can take 2-5x longer to write than adding a game mechanic, which makes it a real time sink for a business. However Mojang does optimize its game, and sadly it does seem to be getting slower every other update. However the modding community never gives up and is willing to make up for the lack of time.
On that note, go download MemoryLeakFix and MoreCulling xD
Re:
Optifine is a flaming piece of garbage in modern versions compared to optimization mods. That and it has 0 mod compatibility, so I highly recommend against using it
oh um ok
Optifine has been going down hill lately. Even they have bugs they will not fix. Optifine is incompatible with most other mods now like twilight forest.
I am a Bedorck player and that is the arguement i use when having to "defend" bedrock from the hate it gets. Due to the nature of bedrock it doesnt have a lot of these 3rd party mods. But the fact that in order to run Java you essentially NEED mods or client its crazy. I do play both Java and Bedrock and ive been playing bedrock since release. Whether microsoft are actively slowing down Java production to advertise the money making bedrock is also worth talking about. Both have there amazing postives, but both have these simply absurd downsides too, which is borderline unthinkable since minecraft is the most sold game of all time.
Fun fact: bedrock does have third-party mods, but they're mainly had clients
@@elger99 I am aware of a few clients, though none of them are "performance enhancing" just more gameplay features. They are really cool! But they aren't very well known and even less used.
@@elger99 I've actually never seen a Bedrock client which truly enhances frame performance.
All these clients have is a disgusting looking UI and they bring a handful of Optifine features over like side grass and connected glass. They don't do anything with improving performance, but they call themselves "FPS clients" 😂
I guess the 11 year olds keep the business running.
@@dee23gaming this is how I know you don't play bedrock (Windows 10), You never Heard of BitLocker you're just another player That just Says stuff because they never actually done it themselves. Why would I be defending bedrock If these things's wasn't true I literally own all of Mojang's Games..
lets gooo new fizzy video- been here from 500 subs!
wow, I'm really blessed to know that anyone from that early subscribed to the channel. Hope you enjoy the new content, because it's definitely different from when I started :)
Cheers mate🍻
This is true, every time I update my version, I must wait for sodium and all the other fps mods to update so I can use it.
I have actually experienced major lag spikes like the ones described in this video! Now I finally know what it is!
it really is so unfortunate that they split the game into two different codebases/engines. And the java codebase is working with decade old code that they are constantly building on.
No matter which way you slice it, this game was NOT meant for longevity/consistency. And that's the biggest problem with the development of Minecraft that, sadly, has no real solution unless they built it from scratch again.
It is a difficult situation for the developers because Java is not a great codebase (I'M NOT SAYING JAVA IS BAD) but obviously they couldn't get rid of it.
@@BoroPhil i think both codebases are extremely flawed for very different reasons
that's why hytale is exciting to me, because they are coding it specifically to be ONE code/engine that can work on multiple platforms, and it is meant for longevity/to be future-proof.
also dl-ing files can make your pc use more stuff like ram and storage that most of pc gamers / kids play with low / budget component
Mojang should make ‘The FPS update’ fixing all the frame drops issue
He might posting once a month but he never disappoints with his videos
Good things come to those who wait
I need to post more videos :(( I really think you guys deserve an epic, 20 minute long video or something, just to make up for my lazy schedule.
@@FizzyBanger You don't have to push your self mate. Fewer videos with quality
You shouldve looked into java itself to understand why Java Edition is getting worse performance with each update.
For Java there is the JDK (Java Development Kit) and
"Java" / JRE (Java Runtime Environment) which is what you install inorder to run java apps like minecraft.
The JRE is running the JVM (Java Virtual Machine) since Java apps do not run on machine hardware, they run off of the Java Virtual Machine. The benefit of this is so that you can run the same app without consideration for which platform it is being run on since each platform just needs to have a JRE to run the app through the JVM but, This is also one of the main reasons as to why performance in minecraft java edition is poor. Since your device isnt running minecraft natively but through the virtual machine: it uses more resources dedicated to the virtual machine on top of the app.
But on top of that Java uses a Garbage Collector it's there to monitor and manage the memory/data of the app and how its used. This is to prevent memory leaks without having programmers actively do memory management within their code. The Garbage Collector is constantly running when a java app is running and the more memory/data it has to keep track of the more it hogs resources and performance; thus why the more things added to Java edition as a whole the more performance in Java Edition gets worse.
06:50 i do never use mods to make my game get more fps, just change some settings and the game will run fine. (i do not have a weak pc but also not a power full one.)
I dont know if mojang actually did this, but i think they are in "technical debt" which means that they just kept adding codes that should be fixing codes that were supposed to fix another bug that caused these perfomance bugs instead of re-writing the codes.
Its like putting a rug on ta dirty floor and then putting another rug on the that other older rug instead of just cleaning the floor
essentially: java edition has a problem because its coded in java
The language itself is fine, no better or worse than C++ like what's used for bedrock, the problems will always lie in how the people coding it order and execute things.
nah, a modpack called gtnh with hundreds of mods with thousands of times the content and progression gets way more fps than vanilla minecraft. this is mojang being completely incompetent.
It's true that Java executes slower than C++, but it's not the case here. For the current size of Minecraft as a game, it should perform much better than it is performing now. The only reason I could think of is that they haven't used optimal algorithms like most game industries do. The same applies to bedrock as we encounter bugs and also the fact that bedrock is multithreaded . Also Java is a popular language in the field of software development and this the reason there are a lot of mods for Java.
Can you all calm down it was a bloody joke
@@thelemonsheep7257 jokes tend to have an indication that they are a joke. there’s plenty of people who don’t understand things like it being coded in Java isn’t the issue and if someone says something like that we can’t always know it was joke, so we try to help them understand :)
What I hope to see in the future is not just performance, but a quality of life expansion. We're already seeing improvements in signs, map making, and other things along with the performance upgrades; so making the game feel better all around should be a focus at some point, drop small quality of life packages along with performance updates
Oh yeah, I play with sodium (after ditchign forge modding) and it is INCREDIBLY stable. I can see it being implemented into the game because it adds few additional features (like the optifine capes and zoom) but refines the base game
POV: you are a bedrock player 😴🥱😁
True power
More like "POV: you're a *lag* bedrock pla- *suffocated by a trapdoor*"
@@LAyersFur bro what lag? I stream 60fps on Cubecraft, the server of lav and i get no lag and 14 ping
I’ve seen a lot of videos of people explaining why MC Java performance is not great. This is because of Java itself. MC bedrock was made in C++, and that programming software can handle way more than Java can (which is why bedrock is so smooth and can render 92 chunks).
Bedrock vs Java aside, there has been noticeable declines in performance with each Java update. This video doesn't cover the Bedrock vs Java performances, just how Java alone has performed over time. Bedrock vs Java deserves another, more technical video, honestly :)
@@FizzyBanger any Bedrock vs Java video is incredibly hard to do without annoying people, just keep that in mind.
It's probably not as simple as taking code from mods because of licensing issues. For instance, Sodium is licensed under LGPL-3.0, meaning Mojang would have to make public and changes they make to that code, which probably means they'd need to publish a lot of Minecraft code. I think there's some legal precedent for not-quite copying: if developers look at the general concept of code and copy that, that's a copyright violation, so they'd still need to respect the license.
Every modpack I build nowadays has to include sodium 😂
W video 👏👏
I was hoping that you would also adress the issue of recent Java updates, for me personally, my interest towards the game dropped in the recent updates especially when they changed the world creation menu to match the style of bedrock, I very much prefer the old menu. Their actions to merge Java and bedrock, drove me to quit playing the game. It won't be long when we have to pay to install mods into Minecraft or they would make some kind of Subscription only Features
the world creation menu is different, but nothing like bedrock still.
I use to like Java but after playing on New Minecraft Its 10x better, Its nice to able to play on my Phone, Xbox, switch, pc. Plus no lag
this is kinda true, and you shined the light onto the problem accurately. Mojang really needs to step up their game.
And they would if it was really something they could fix
I feel like no matter what this issue will always be reached at some point due to the fact that more stuff keeps getting added and they have the ability to do that because technology in the real world is constantly being improved on allowing games to have more stuff in it due to being able to handle it, so if you have an older pc the problems with quality are just waaaay more noticeable and common
Bedrock has major issues
so true
both do, but bedrock is sometimes just really broken
I downloaded a mod called Modern Beta which basically makes the overworld generate terrain like it would do in beta 1.7.3, but I have access to all 1.19 stuffs and features. But because the old world terrain doesn't have too much in it in the overworld, I get about 600-1000 frames per second wherever I move.
If I play normal 1.19 with all the bland terrains, I get like 200 frames with Optifine...
Java Edition is still the greatest. Can you explain what the probem is with Bedrock, though? I feel like there's wayyy too many transactions.
transactions that no one actually buys
@@empty9926 Yep!
@@empty9926 i do agree with that lmao, even beying a bedrock modder, i can say that the marketplace is basically useless, especially that mod communities exist
bro
Well, I went into Bedrock edition's microtransactions a long time ago, and why they actually provide a huge revenue stream for Mojang (because kids will buy anything). Bit speculative, but I think the reason why we've had free updates and maintenance of the game in recent years is because of nicrotransactions bankrolling the developers. Java is still extremely important for Minecraft's brand image, as all the big creators seem to play on it, and drive players to the game. But I think Bedrock just has more money to be made in it, and it's so they can support both Java and Bedrock. This is all just my opinion.
as someone with a potato for a pc, i thought this was just my computer being ass. however, seeing that it is not only me really made me realize how right you were in every aspect. as i play minecraft i have horrible fps that makes building/moving difficult, the chunk generation is horrible and sometimes i can in a completely unloaded chunk floating for a couple of minutes till it renders. not to mention how minecraft uses literally 90-99% of my GPU's power and makes anything else on my computer undoable. i hope mojang does quickly take action to make minecraft more playable since i cannot install mods for whatever reason and have to use all the minimal settings to play smoothly
for your gpu problem i recommend using vsync
Yup indeed.
If only there was a version made in a newer language… like bedrock
But you know, not horrible like bedrock
Remake the entire thing in C++ but as a standalone game.
Cuz the issues with Bedrock probably rooted from the crossplay…
and the same exact thing running and has to be supported in different devices.
even with optifine my 8 year old acer aspire xc-703 desktop pc has constant lag spikes and around 10 fps and has a giant lag spike when joining a server / world, and even after upgrading from 4 to 8 gb of ram it is only slightly better where there is still the giant lag spike when joining but very few lag spikes after that and around 20 fps, but bedrock edition runs GREAT on it.
it would be so easy for them to just like add a setting in the launcher to boost the performance
bedrock player be trying find anything and everything to try to say there version is better than java stay coping and seething while java stays wining
Who actually liked this comment
where the human race is going is scary
@@BoroPhil because they where based af
In 4 hours 3 more likes??
Can't imagine what life they are living
they could add sodiums optimizations to the game through a checkbox in the video settings and a warning of possible render issues
This is pretty embarrassing for a billion dollar company.
if it is created for java via the community, Mojang doesn't bother to do it again. For bedrock, thanks to DRM and platform limitations where the community doesn't really own the game/devices, they are designing those features but only for bedrock, take a look at marketplace map creator tools or in-game editor mode. (they flat out stated "we only are doing this for bedrock")
„Performance Mods“
Bedrock Players: 😂
"Bugs that makes MC unplayable and shitty af mods"
Java Players: 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣
the new "renderdragon" engine for bedrock editon has also fucked up the performance:)
"Mods"
Bedrock Players: ????????
@@Nugcon true
@@DigginThrough.MyOldMuscles. I never get why people say that Bedrock is glitchy. I really have to look up glitches to find them
I play Bedrock because it just runs better on my pc. Also moving hoppers without mods. Lots of other stuff is behind but the key things I like for quality of life work.
The primary issues for bedrock are
Redstone updates have a seemingly random order, making fast piston doors hard
the piston thing but rewritten so it looks like a second point
they are slowly fixing the redstone, on java it will always be broken cause people love the quasi connectivity even tho it was a bug that the developers keep in and break immersion.
these guys crying when they dont have 700 average fps ingame
idk why anyone would run beyond 60fps, to be honest. That's my limit, and I don't need any more to enjoy the block game. Plus, I'm pretty sure running at stupidly high fps degrades a PC faster (could be just something I heard wrong).
The more fps you have the lower the input delay. Even if your monitor is 60hz if you play at 120fps then you will feel less input delay compared to 60 fps
@@the8413 150 or higher you dont see the difference
@Zabicka07 yeah it has diminishing returns but have your fps higher than your monitors refresh rate feels much smoother
@@FizzyBanger there is a point if you have a high-refresh rate monitor, as it will look more smooth.
but if you're running 9001 fps you really don't need that
As a person who mostly plays mod packs from 1.12.2 to change the game completely, this does not affect me much. However, my friends wanted to play the latest vanilla version on a server once, and the dedicated server was doing fine initially. Still, later on, it started to lag, lag really badly. I discovered that it has to do something with the java garbage collector. If they want to fix the root cause of server lag they will most likely have to re-write or improve code, which will take a while. A Minecraft server is limited to 1 thread, it does stuff in order, and it makes the world of zero-tick Redstone contraptions work. That's why I wouldn't say I like mods such as paperMC since they change how the game works since they run on multiple threads and update things at different times. Also, when running a Minecraft server, I recommend using Linux. The CPU is what matters the most when running a Minecraft server, most people say that "if the server is lagging, just give it more RAM" but if there is too much RAM the garbage collector will become slower and slower until the server is unplayable, the CPU speeds matter for the garbage collector, the garbage collector is multithreaded, but the server itself is not so that's why I would say to go for high single-thread performance wich intel is usually better with, don't use websites like cpubenchmark.net as they show false information most of the time. To make the garbage collector better, I changed the startup line for it, it unlocks excremental features but it makes the garbage collector more smooth over time. All in this comment is from my personal experience of running servers for a while, correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm still learning some stuff about running Minecraft servers. If anyone has any tips, please reply!
What ChatGPT thought of the comment:
There are several aspects to this comment, so let's address them one by one:
Mod packs: It is true that running mod packs can change the game completely and may not be affected by changes to the vanilla version of the game.
Server lag: It is also true that server lag can be caused by the Java garbage collector, which is responsible for managing memory in the game. However, there can be many other factors that contribute to server lag, including network latency, server hardware, and the number of players on the server.
Multithreading: It is correct that Minecraft servers are limited to one thread and that some mods, such as PaperMC, can run on multiple threads. Running a server on Linux can also improve performance, as Linux is generally better optimized for server workloads than Windows.
RAM vs. CPU: It is true that simply adding more RAM to a server may not solve performance issues and can actually make them worse if the garbage collector is unable to keep up. CPU speed and single-threaded performance are important factors in running a Minecraft server, and Intel CPUs are generally better in this regard. However, it's worth noting that this can vary depending on the specific CPU model and other factors.
Overall, the comment appears to be mostly accurate in its assessment of running Minecraft servers and some of the factors that can affect performance. However, there are always exceptions and variations depending on specific configurations, hardware, and software, so it's important to keep an open mind and be willing to experiment and learn.
me who is a 1.8.9 main: i do not see such as a problem
Bedrock Players: *Look what they need to have a fraction of our power.*
I've heard that one of the biggest problems is that Minecraft was written as a single-threaded application because of the limits of available hardware back when it first came out and making it utilise multiple threads would most likely require Mojang to completely rewrite the game which would obviously be a lot of work.
Dude, what if Minecraft developer itself use these optimization mods when testing their updates 💀
I can't believe that these people, despite their best efforts and super competence, in a team of 600 PEOPLE, are unable to copy already fixed optimization issues and are able to create so little new things in a game with the simplest graphics imaginable.
I don't care to what extent it is their laziness, management or anything else. They are creating a game for hundreds of millions of lives and if they are not competent to solve the problems or they are not smart enough, these people should be fired immediately. There are many optimization solutions and many more interesting updates than the 15th type of wood. (btw, changing chunk height from 256 to 384 I guess also didn't help. For example, in hytale chunk is 32x32x32 which allows for more optimization + infinite height choice potential, but I understand that it would require being competent on their part and doing a lot of work so... yes, it will never happen)
I feel like the problem is that not many gamers know much about game development, so there's A CHANCE that their opinion of the amount of work Mojang does might not be based on reality. (I think I have some experience, but not much and I'm not working at Mojang, so I'm not sure, just a guess based on my limited knowledge)
So does Mojang do a lot or little work? If you answered yes without understanding this specific game making process or any of the mechanics involved in making Minecraft, congratulations! Thanks to you we are MORE LIKELY to get the 16th differently contrasted wood texture.I recommend makeshift social pressure. This game is my childhood and I want to see its full potential, as do hundreds of millions of people.
they can't, they tried to get optfine in the game and the creator did not want to do it, they cant't copy his work that would have legal issues.
microsoft could ahve codded they own fixes, and if you look at changelog they do fixes alot of stuff the caves and cliffs update got the most performance update but at the same time the world size increased so the performance buffs mostly just keep the same,
and lets be real here, java does have some overhead due to running virtualized, high level languages are always slower, even if microsoft could add sodium and all optmization mods no matter what they do it woud still run worse than a C++ coded game, so its just a waste of time really. i think microsoft is being way too kind on keeping supporting the old version they jsut waste money time and development that could be focused on the game with the superior engine, so we could get even more bug fixes and a better game cross platform for everyone. only reason java is relevant is cause of mods, but as soon as a good mod support is added to bedrock edition theres no point going back to it at all.
@@gabrielandy9272 Thanks, I knew about the levels of code abstraction but honestly I didn't know what the real difference in performance was between such c++ and java because I never played Bedrock and when I looked at the language rankings, java was worse than c++ but practically always these languages were adjacent to each other so I assumed that the difference is not great. I didn't know that they differ in their approach to performance, that Java is an interpreted language and C++, on the other hand, is a compiled language and compiles directly into machine code. It's just sad that the java version is doomed :( I hope over time they focus on developing the Bedrock version when they add mod support like you said. I hope that now they are actually tryharding to get closer to Java version so that, for example, redstone does not suck. I hope that's why they seem to be doing nothing from the sidelines, and not for the reasons I blamed them before... but it's still sus imo
Not to mention that if Mojang attempted to incorporate similar methods of performance enhancement, and similar to Optifine, had some side effects and issues that hindered the experience, Mojang would receive far more backlash for it. If the latest version of Optifine were to have some massive rendering issues, then big deal, it's just a mod. If Mojang made a whole update centered around it and had similar rendering issues, I could only imagine the huge levels of backlash they'd receive.
mojang attempted to partner with optifine, but the owner of it said no
mojang spesificaly doesnt put much attention to improving performance BECAUSE there is already mods out there to help with that. the DL;DR is that they tend to not implement things into vanilla that already exist in a mod in some way.
this doesnt just extend to performance mods either.
take the numerous quality of life mods that are widely used by the tech community such as litematica, minihud or carpetmod just to name a few.
pretty much all the things in these mods should be implemented into vanilla in some way, as they do nothing more than add functionality that should have been in the game for years by now.
but as you said new and shiny stuff is always more interesting and sells better than boring things like fixing the massive inventory issue that is getting worse and worse with each passing update or finally fixing the combat system thats been broken since 1.9.
so the basic rule of thumb is that if theres a mod for it, the chances of it ending up in vanilla at some point vanish into thin air bc mojang doesnt want to add things from mods, nor care about adding things from mods since if you want to have it, theres already a mod for it.
for me personally since 1.18 update it's been harder to play the game without mods specially when optifine doesn't come out that early but since the day I heard optifine was even before these new updates I just downloaded it not for just the performance improvements, also the features and details that it added but I agree that the player that just wants to play the game shouldn't have to download mods in order to be able to play the game
Great Video!❤
Find it interesting how wildly javas performance varies system to system, newer versions run great on this rather old ivybridge xeon with or w/o optifine but recently have been playing in 1.14 world and it is prone to random lag spikes. Though it does seem Mojang is aware of the inconsistency since telemetry is collecting system performance metrics.
I have had some major issues with lag since upgrading from 1.16 to 1.18 last summer. At first, I was trying everything, such as moving my worlds I wasn't using out of my Minecraft folder, lowering all of my settings as low as possible, and making sure to close every other program when playing. And playing with the lowest specs possible wasn't fun, especially when still getting lag spikes. I couldn't play the game. I couldn't do things like explore caves because getting into a fight with a bunch of skellies when you freeze every 5 seconds is a challenge I didn't sign up for. Thankfully, most issues with this have been solved with re-installing Optifine. I'm also fortunate that I have a mid-specs PC, or it could be much worse. I really think that Mojang should do more about optimizing performance in 1.20. I wouldn't theme a whole update for it because I agree, it would be a lackluster update to many. But just slowly introduce some tweaks to the game in the next few updates that really help performance. Some things there should be mods for, and some things should just be in the base game. Performance is definitely one of the things that should be in the game.
Today I loaded up a few older versions to try out some seeds, and I forgot how much better the game used to run. Even as recently as 1.16, worlds loaded so much faster. But even earlier versions had way better frame rates.
This is (kinda) the same problem we have with Fallout 3, New Vegas and Skyrim (Legacy Edition), its just an old codebase with spaghetti code, wringling on ancient libraries.
Just to alleviate performance issues, while mantaining the quality (remember, to the developer, its easier to have it working, but slow, than working fast but breaking ever so often) that they need to deliver.
well there was already the bugs and bees update where they tried to improve the user experience, they fixed a lot of bugs and improved performance significantly. but the community didn't like that update and thats a reason why i think they will not do another performance centered update in the near future.
The Problem With Minecraft: Pocket Edition
WE WILL NOT GET BUNDLES BECAUSE OF IT
They really should try LOD, mods like CubicChunks use this and it is possible to render the whole world like this if done right, while still playable.
I've had a huge problem for a few days. It all probably started after the last launcher update. The game started sometimes and sometimes didn't, and "exit code: 1" appeared, and sometimes my computer restarted. However, we still managed to play occasionally for a few days. I have been playing for 4 years on version 1.16.5 with a permanent, unchanged mod pack. A few days ago it stopped turning on at all. All attempts ended with a computer reset. I uninstalled all mods except forge 36.2.39. Minecraft has started. I started adding one mod at a time. It turned out that the culprit was Inventory Tweaks. The game started for me with all the other mods. Today I tried to look for a similar mod to inventory tweaks. I found inventory profiles next. I installed it. Exit code 1 popped up. I deleted it again. The game stopped starting. I removed all mods except forge mod. The game does not start. I tried running clean version 1.16.5 without forge mod. The game does not start. I deleted all minecraft and reinstalled it. I ran 1.16.5 vanilla. I repeated the operation several times, because sometimes the game started and sometimes the computer was reset. I decided to install several other versions of forge 36.2.20, 36.2.29, 36.2.39, 36.2.34. Similar effect. I installed java 17. The effect is the same. Now I can't even run pure Minecraft 1.16.5 because it freezes and resets my computer. I don't know what to do anymore.
The most interesting thing is that on the second, older computer, where the same minecraft 1.16.5 and the same mods are installed. To be sure, I only removed this inventory tweaks mod. The game starts. The difference between the computers is that the old one still has Win 7 (I have Win10) and the launcher has not been updated. (I play on the server with my daughter, so that's why I have the same Minecraft). Now we can't play together because I can't run minecraft with mods on my computer in any way. Can anyone help? I don't know what to do anymore, especially since vanilla doesn't even start. Please HELP.
PS. The serwer on my computer also dont start. When I click start, then freeze windows and reset hole komputer.
One of the largest reasons we see performance issues is the inherently unoptimized code written for the game.
To cut a long, technically complicated, and confusing story short, Mojang has had several instances where things have been written in extremely inefficient ways just because it's the standard way of writing something in Java, even re-writing old code that was perfectly functional to be less efficient simply to meet standards.
The way block positions are handled is one of the biggest reasons chunk gen/loading eats stupid amounts of memory and processing time clearing said memory, all because the system behind it is written in an inefficient way.
My PC renders the whole World in real time in the Microsoft Flight Simulator but can't manage to render 30 Chunks distance
I feel like if Mojang does end up wanting to optimize the game, they should either implement the performance fixes over multiple updates, or they should do it in one update, but not entirely focus on performance as the main part of the update. This way, new features are still being released while the performance increases. I usually play on 1.12.2 and lower just so that I don't see these performance issues, even though I have OptiFine and Sodium. They can help with the overall FPS on newer versions, but I can't keep my render distance above 8 chunks or I get lag spikes, most likely due to having to load chunks while moving around. I don't feel like I should have to mod my game to fix performance, especially if I'm on a high-end laptop. Sorry for the wordiness, but this has been on my mind for months. Thank you for addressing the topic!
I will likely never play java version ever again. While I was playing java edition on a much older computer and that does explain the lag I had I just can't believe the difference in performance between java and bedrock. Bedrock version has only ever crashed for me once and that was during the dragon fight. Meanwhile when I played on java crashes were a common thing.
I barely ever have framerate issues on bedrock version. The worst that I get is if I'm generating terrain quickly via flying the chunks take a few seconds to appear but there's still barely any lag. It's such a breath of fresh air over java version. Also the fact that the whole reason I stopped playing java version is that the 1.7 update just turned off all sound for me. It didn't matter if I had the ingame volume cranked, no sound.
As a bedrock player playing minecraft without our brothers from Java is not fun at all because both of us used to make challenges to see which one is better
I don't think any Java players would call Bedrock players "brothers" but could be wrong lol
People used to look at bedrock edition as the little brother of the java edition that's way
I doubt that Mojang will ever fix this. Simply because they would rather do it on bedrock.
YET THEY DONT FIX IT ON BEDROCK EITHER
Thank you everyone is saying how Microsoft/Mojang is "consistently updating Bedrock" and "desperately want people to switch" but they don't fix much on Bedrock.
@@BoroPhil I've been playing bedrock on my series s cause I just got it, learning that my render distance was maxed at 28 was soul crushing
I've been playing Java since the summer of 2013, and this rings very true. I can get 60 fps on the base game with no issues with good settings. But with optifine, can I get over 100% performance boost past 150 fps. It's insane why mojang doesn't fix their stuff
they cant "just fix their stuff"
@@just.someguy5145 they can, it’s just that it would take absurdly long and nobody would think of it as worth it. They could still do it by hiring a side team to optimize the game to its starter code
i think they should hire a team to do specifically optimizations in sub updates. while the main team works on the main features. so optimized game could be listed in something like 1.20.1 for example. (doubtful that will happen honestly)
Man i actually really miss the "old" minecraft. I just miss the days before all the mods and massive content updates. Maybe it's because i just miss the days where everything was just so simple. That surely ain't the case no more.
The main problem that caused lag. This is that they have tripled (slightly more) the height of the world but have not changed the way chunks work.
Due to the fact that the height of the chunk is loaded at once from the lowest to the highest point, its doubling, greatly affected the performance.
If they had divided it into at least two horizontally (or better as often as vertically), there would not have been such lags.
There is a mod for 1.12.2 which completely redesigns the work of the chunks and they become square rather than rectangular from the floor to the ceiling. This also removes the restriction on the height of the world, making it as huge vertically as horizontally
This is odd. I have a pretty standard PC, probably sub-standard in some areas, and I have never experienced frame rate issues while playing Java. Sometimes while playing on servers I get lag, but that is from my crappy internet. Great video though.
CPU?
Minecrafts performace is RAM and CPU heavy af.
If you have anywhere over 10 gigs, and you have basically any CPU that isn’t ancient, you will be fine. People with 8 are also fine, but I think they can’t run Minecraft well because of other issues with their PC and stuff, and in top of that, Java purposely limits memory usage to either 2 or 4 gigs, which can be increased by editing the installation
@@Xero-rr2ol Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4790 CPU @ 3.60 GHz with 16 GB of RAM
One of the largest factors going jnto Mojang not being able to incorporate modders’ code is probably licensing. Sodium, for example, is licensed with a CopyLeft license, meaning that Mojang would have to open-source their own code and may be limited commercially with what the could do with Minecraft.
Hey I'm a game dev, and can comment on this. I know back in the day when Microsoft bought Minecraft the plan was to reach parity between Bedrock and Java edition. Then once that was reached they would deprecate and remove the Java edition leaving only Bedrock. I don't know if this is still the plan. The reason for this is Bedrock is written in C++ and built from the bottom up to be more efficient and optimized at every level, although the game is very huge so this has already taken many many years and may take many more to reach parity. Maintaining so many versions of Minecraft also makes it difficult as well, if they did an optimization update what happens to the versions that are not experiencing much lag? They just have the nothing update? Beyond this, sometimes huge rewrites on the backend are needed for optimization so actually, maybe they are already doing optimizations in the updates it is just they won't pay off until they reach a large scale (i.e. they have the base code there they just need to implement it everywhere slowly replacing all the old logic over many updates).
But I think the real reason is that they don't want to focus on it unless it's enough of a problem that people would stop playing/buying the game. It's easier to focus on new features and fix bugs and let the performance slowly get worse until enough people complain and then do a big rewrite when the time comes. Especially with the modding community, most people who care about this enough are going to download optifine or something. The other factor is even if they do a large optimization it is going to break a lot of things that will later need to get fixed. It is incredibly complex and the reward vs cost may not be good enough yet.
Going off of this, if indeed they are still attempting to reach parity and then get rid of the java edition, they have no incentive to improve the java edition performance... it's just not worth the effort and instead the team can focus on optimizing the bedrock edition.
There is a list of all performance mods and all their specific stuff.