Accused of holding a GRUDGE for NOT FORGIVING the narcissist
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Accusing the survivors of holding grudge against their abuser is another form of 'victim shaming'!
Disgusting!
I was once criticised as a Survivor fir knowing what I was doing gor doing back to him and that whatever happened was my fault. I told the person that's just what my Narcissist said.
yes
It's gaslighting the victim as though they did something wrong and not the abuser.
That's the oldest trick in the playbook that narcs use
And enablers support.. All these are seriously sickening!!
As soon as you' forgive', their mind says 'gotcha'
Best comment !
Narcs especially
agree, all they hear is "we can go back now to treating you as awfully as we like and now you aren't allowed to complain about it anymore"
Narcissists want your forgiveness for something they wont admit to doing😢
🎯👏👏
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
The abuse only gets worse when you forgive a narcissist.
So true. They see it as a sign that you're weak, and they just hurt you repeatedly.
Because they have contempt.
Only time to “forgive” the narcissist is after the whole thing is over and done, not during the relationship. Has nothing to do with second chances. After it is over, if forgiving them fits with your healing from the ordeal, try it.
@@kathrynhayes1799 what actually does it mean to forgive, and what value is it to the individual who is forgiving someone who is not contrite. From my understanding of forgiveness, it is irresponsible to forgive someone who is not contrite because it absolves them from owning the hurt they've inflicted, and grants them permission to hurt someone else. A narcissist should be held accountable. To do otherwise is being an enabler.
A narcissist will never be contrite. It’s not part of their narcissistic personality, and is something you know about them as you embrace radical acceptance. You don’t enable them to do anything since they are no longer a part of your life when, if it benefits your healing, you attempt to forgive them. If you are angry towards them and feel they should “pay” that’s okay too - a normal response to what you have been through. There’s no judgement here - we all find ways to heal.❤
Forgiving someone who is not sorry or ask for forgiveness? Someone who can't take responsibility or even think they have done something wrong? 🤔 No. Accept them for what they are and move along.... Forgive yourself for even trying. 🙏
It is so much healthier to truly let it go...relinquish it into the hands of God and forgive. This is not absolution. Life is just too short to carry the weight of unforgiveness. IMO. ❤🎉😊
Yes!!!!
@@ritapearl-im3wv you are not carrying any weight. You do not forgive patterns. The narcissistic relationship is rife with patterns of abusive behavior. You forgive yourself for being naive.
It's impossible to apologize for that which is not acknowledged. Until they agree with what I say the problem is, say, "You're right, madge, that thing I did really hurt you," all they're doing is arguing and insulting with the word "sorry" tacked on (sorry but I, sorry you feel, etc.) to make me look disagreeable.
Well, I forgave him after a million bee stings! I have moved on and I have no interest in the opinions of others. I DON'T CARE!
Narcissists turn molehills into mountains and they will always hold a grudge against you. But if they do anything wrong, they will expect you to forgive and forget it. They will bring up things from 10 years ago that you allegedly said or did. But they will get angry and defensive if you bring something up that happened just yesterday.
Real. I know the feeling
Exactly was happening to me when I was married to a narcissist
Lies, lies from tiny eyes 😮 listening to them badmouthing everyone else, and probably saying their "friends" did something that the narcissist actually did 🤦♀️
Yep. I have dealt with that too.
Maybe this is the sort of thing Gandhi's quote was referencing. People that can *never* forgive. Maybe it wasn't about choosing to not forgive re-offenders or betrayals. I think it's ok to choose not to forgive someone that's harmed you or someone you know.
Outsiders just don't understand the pain of another's situation when they judge.
That's why it's easier for them to make suggestions
correct
@@dontbelongherefromanother correct
They don’t let us forgive them because they continue their abuse and put-downs even after separation.
Exactly!
Right, eventhough you tell them that you don't like this or that behavior and they gaslight you or ignore your feelings. They will not change.
What a CIRCUS 🎪🎉!😅
those same people would agree that a president should not pardon (forgive) a murderer that is still murdering people. 🤷🏾♀️
So true. They actually hold the grudge that i do not allow them to manipulate and abuse me anymore. I am only protecting myself by keeping my distance unless they give up their vicious intention.
Abusers LOVE forgiveness. Forgive and forget, right? That works beautifully - for them.
Sometimes what they actually mean by “forgiveness” is excuse my behavior and allow me to continue it
For narcs it is
Yes! narc mom never wanted forgiveness. She Did expect me to forget tho. Decades later no contact.
Remember Charlie Brown and Peanuts?
The scene where Lucy convinces Charlie Brown that she won’t pull the football away but she always does, and every time he believes her when she says this time I won’t.
I felt like Charlie Brown every time I forgave my Mom.
That is perfect analogy
You don't have to forgive her but do give yourself grace ❤
I'm so glad the comment section here is filled with people who understand that forgiveness doesn't come at the price of harming yourself!
Sometimes, not forgiving feels empowering. It's a way to say "I do matter", "My feelings are important" and "I won't allow being treated as a doormat".
Some people would rather see you in the cycle of forgiving and getting re-burned than protecting yourself from people who continuously harm you.
I don't hold a grudge; I keep score and this is necessary when dealing with narcissists...it reminds you of who they are / can be. Don't ever forget of what they are capable.
My idea of forgiving is not to allow them to be able to do it again. I used to believe forgiving was to let things pass and continue on the same path. That is not forgivness. Forgivness is to let it go, set the boundaries needed and stop blaming myself for it. And accept they are who they are. And not go there anymore. I think there is a big confusion about what forgiveness IS.
This!
I love this!
yes THIS, ..... I used to believe forgiving was to let things pass and continue on the same path. That is not forgiveness...no it enables our abuse...what is that saying? fool me once shame on you, fool me twice/thrice shame on me...I think that we are taught the wrong concept of forgiveness and what love is, and is often tied to turning the other cheek....I believe that loving ones enemy is to be done from afar and extends to not stooping to their level to exact revenge...(revenge not to be confused with justice).we are not to forget the lesson but let us not be consumed with a vindictive spirit not stoop to their evil tactics...leave it to God and go no contact..in this way one is loving ones enemy as ones self....interestingly a society of narcissism was foretold @ 2Timothy3:1-5 even more interesting was the recommended action....no contact..true forgiveness is when the wrongdoer recognizes his wrongdoing and acknowledges such to the wronged and asks for forgiveness endeavoring not to repeat the action and makes good for what was wronged...it is not just letting the offence pass only to give a free pass to repeat the offence/abuse....that is not loving to self..no contact is acknowledgement of your self worth...not a grudge....it just means that we learnt our lesson...snake is still a snake.....and until there is acknowledgement, and a concerted effort to demonstrate one is truly sorry which is shown by ones actions toward the offended/abused.....one should only expect our refusal to engage any further in what amounts to ..our abuse
I've forgiven myself for not wanting to forgive my narcissistic mother.
It's especially hard when the narcissist is your mother. People always want to defend a mother. And I tell them, "Bad people have kids, too." And that makes them pause and actually think.
Motherhood: The last bastion of bad behavior and abuse.
Yep. I am totally holding a grudge. Forever. And I hope they don't like it.
Thank you ! I was scrolling looking for someone to say this and you did. Made my day . I am memorising " yep, I am totally holding a grudge . Forever . And I hope they don't like it . "
"Vengeance is mine" said the Lord.
I say, why should God have all the satisfaction.
Forgiveness requires the perpetrator to try to understand the damage they've done, apologize with true contrition, try to right the wrongs committed, and seek forgiveness. Narcs aren't capable of any of these things, and thus forgiveness isn't possible.
A victim's lack of forgiveness isn't the problem, the abuser is the problem. Typical narc behavior to turn that around.
I frame it as how safe I feel. I can always forgive people in an objective sense, once I am away from them (forgive them for becoming broken, and for not being able to heal). But I can't forgive them in a subjective/personal sense, until I feel safe in their presence.
This is so real. Its next level of victim blaming, Spiritual and religious gaslighting. Forgiveness is overrated
Don't listen to those who exaggerate "forgiveness" because they never forgive you.
What's really problematic when others jump on board and pressure victims to forgive and berate and criticize them for not forgiving. To make matters worse, they take it a step further by pressuring victims to reconcile with their abuser, especially in families
@@dontbelongherefromanother Exactly.
Forgiveness is totally exaggerated - because why on earth would you even forgive someone who abused you ? Oh HELL no! I feel better knowing I got away and am living a peaceful, happy life! Forgiveness has NOTHING to do with that!
@@happyday3368 Glad to hear you have a happy life without forgiving them. 🙂
Never forgive and never forget or the narcissist will twist and turn it until you're responsible for their bad behavior. And...never expect them to change or develop any insight. It won't happen.
Forgiveness fuels the worst type of corruption, that of making the abuser think he did nothing wrong.
You don't owe forgiveness to anyone. If someone hurts you, you're well within your right to make changes to limit the amount of harm they can do going forward. You can even genuinely forgive someone but still make changes to protect yourself from them. It's not holding a grudge, it's setting boundaries.
Exactly- people conflate forgiveness with restoring a relationship. You can forgive and still protect yourself- and others- and still hold the person accountable for their misdeeds.
Absolutely!!
No - it's not just holding a grudge. Not forgiving the narcissist is accepting the reality that they are a toxic individual who will never change. Not forgiving the narcissist allows victims of their unacceptable behavior to break free of their abuse, gas-lighting, and all the rest and to enable healing.
I've learned to move on but won't reconnect, respect, or help them in any way. This is the most of my forgiveness narcissists will get from me. Forgiveness is not candy you should expect to freely hand out. No amount of mercy, empathy, acceptance, and kindness will change the narcissist's petty, vindictive, manipulative, deceitful and malicious behavior. Nor will they apologize and fix the damage they caused
Typical passive aggressive behavior. Taking advantage of your guilt. You owe them nothing. Move on
My rule is:
• Do not forgive.
• Do not forget.
• Let it slip out of daily thought.
• Move on with your life.
Exactly! 👍
Exactly. Indifference .
I should cross-stitch that on a goddamned pillow. It's like you're in my head.
And find respect for someone else - just to show them that they dont matter
Societal pressure to forgive can create self-blame and judgement, however forgiveness should be for one’s own peace, not for the narcissist’s benefit.
❤
Right. Forgiveness is inside me and has nothing to do with that other person.
Anyone who accuses me of sadistically dangling my forgiveness over them as I relish their guilt-wracked suffering is blatantly projecting their own red flag.
Forgiveness for me only comes relative to my safety.
I can forgive in a global sense, once I'm away from them, like I get how your childhood made you broken.
But I can't forgive in a personal sense, until I can feel safe in their presence.
I agree, the only one you have to forgive is yourself. Never the narc!
I go no contact with people that try to pressure me to forgive my sister. No one has ever done such evil to me and she only could do it because of my trust.
After 50 years of forgiveness….she crossed the line when she did an unforgettable act… I’m no contact-forever! Now, I consider myself an only child!
My ex always used to say i was 'bringing up the past'. Finally i told him, 'it's not the past if you are doing it RIGHT NOW.
YES YES YES!
I went no contact with my mother when I was in my 50s. She had been abusive, neglectful, etc. But I had TRIED to have a loving relationship with her. She finally did something that tipped the scales right over. I didn't wish her ill, I just wanted her to leave me alone. I wanted her out of my life and out of my head. She continually sent me notes about how terrible I was for holding a grudge. But worse of all, was my husband who kept telling me that holding a grudge against my own mother was wrong. Although he never wanted a relationship with her because she was so mean. Somehow in other people's minds, even though they didn't want her around, the fact that she was my mother was supposed to give her a pass in her treatment of me.
A grudge; is your brains way of keeping on high alert against being hurt again in the same way. It's a survival mechanism.
Betrayal again and again torturing tearing people's hearts and soul to pieces stealing others innocence from cause and effect what else were they expecting
I did not forgive the hell that narc put me through with the lies and cheating. I do not hold a grudge, I have no respect for him. It caused me to go to therapy and medication. I am now weaning off the meds and getting my life back. He will have to deal with his actions to God.
Forgive dont forget. Forgiveness does not mean there is not consequence.
Your definition of forgiveness sounds different from mine, if not nearly the exact opposite. To me, forgiveness means precisely that I feel no desire (or even rational justification) to impart or for there to be any consequences or punishment. That, without having to brainwash the events out of my mind, I understand and empathize with the humanity behind your actions, and see your well-meaning intent, to the point that I perceive you as at least as empathetic, caring, well-intentioned, and fundamentally healthy, non-toxic, and non-abusive - as well as a positive addition to my life - as I did before. And that our relationship is at least as strong, caring, and trusting. What does forgiveness mean to you?
@@mindoftheheart some agressions are a deal breaker. A relationship ender. A violation of contract. I can forgive a person for that, but likely will not desire to re enter a violated previous agreement.
@@mindoftheheart to me, forgiveness means having moved on from the anger/resentment that results from being wronged. Accountability is a completely different matter. For example, you can reach a place of forgiveness towards someone who committed murder while still believing that a life sentence is appropriate for the crime. You could forgive someone who robbed you because you empathize with the circumstances that led them to do so, yet also understand that their addictions, violent tendencies, impulsivity, etc are ongoing and will likely lead to more offenses.
That's not what I was raised to believe. The mormons believe true forgiveness only happens when the person is restored to their former position. It's why there's no much abuse in the church. Catholics believe this as well I believe.
forgiveness is up to the forgiver. so what's best for your healing. Just remember to forgive yourself and show yourself grace and kindness.
Allowing the years of destructive, covert narc abuse throughout generations in my family is unforgivable.
There's a huge difference between forgiveness and consequences! I can forgive things but never have any contact again with that person that would be a consequence!
Why would I forgive my narcissistic abusers? Seriously no grudges here. I am fine with not forgiving them. Better yet I hope I never see them again. 😊like ever again.
A lot of my family who are devout Christians kept saying that forgiveness is a divine gift and made forgiveness sound like this act of being the “bigger” person. That if I didn’t do it then I would be making myself miserable. I disagree with that. Me intentionally choosing to not forgive the narcissist friend that abused me, hijacked my soul and caused me to nearly harm myself for almost ten years was the best decision I made. I wish this friend nothing but the best and not forgiving them is my way of enforcing my boundaries with that person.
Why do you need to wish someone the best? Giving energy to someone toxic makes them stronger. Save that for yourself.
When someone treats you horribly, they are saying what they think of you. Believe them. That is not something that requires forgiveness.
This. I recently ended a 20+ year friendship with someone who bullied me. These weren't isolated incidents, but I waved them off because I'm codependent. And it hit me that my friend told me exactly what she thought of me by the nasty way she treated me and by the rude things she said. She'd been showing me, but I overlooked them and overlooked them until I figured it out. This is who she is. See the red flags. She hasn't changed since you've known her. You're doing better, getting healthy, growing, and she chooses to stay where she is in her jealousy and bitterness.
I walked away after I'd seen what I needed to and finally made the choice that I was worth more and deserved better than backbiting, nasty comments and behavior from someone who thinks being mean is the way to maintain a friendship.
I AGREE!
I get so tired of constantly being forgiving, giving people 3 4 &5 chances, only to be repeatedly harmed and blamed, with the abusers never taking responsibility and outright lying about what happened. And then shamed by the enablers to give them another chance. I matter too and am not playing this game anymore. Prioritizing my well being and safety. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
That's finally the realization I came to after many decades of abuse and some deep work on myself: I matter too. I hurt too. I am included in the value and importance category.
All my life and through my relationships I let people be nasty and awful to me and made excuses "Oh, they're really stressed out right now." And as basic and DUH as that sounds, I said to myself "Wait a minute. I'm really struggling too, but the difference is I don't do the things to them they're doing to me."
Took me a long time to stand up for me and stop taking this crap and LET THEM SIT IN IT. I'm losing "friends" and making enemies of people who were my enemy long ago but I was too ignorant to understand. Even at my worst I didn't do the stuff that my abusers did to me on a daily basis.
They can have it back!
Forgiving them is futile ... forgiving yourself for not knowing what you were involved in is essential. Learn and love yourself before giving your love (power) to others or expecting love from others. 🤗❤🤗
My mother enmeshed man had become emotionally abusive and attempted to shame me for putting a stop to mother in law shenanigans. He hates that I won't allow her in my life. Consequently, I let him go too. It's asinine to allow people to keep disregarding, disrespecting you.
I have a narcissistic sister who I went nearly no-contact with, and I have come to think about forgiveness this way: it's like forgiving a money debt. You've forgiven them when you can feel like they don't owe you anything.
You don't have to have a relationship with them, you don't have to engage with them, you don't have to give them a clean slate, you don't have to have a single warm feeling towards them. If you can let go enough of the hurt to be content with never getting anything from them - and likely you won't anyway, not justice, and not apologies - you've forgiven them enough.
If I've let go of the emotional debt she owes me, I am free from expecting it will ever happen, but I am not giving her another chance to incur more karmic debt to me. The debt is forgiven but she doesn't get a line of credit again.
I can't stand being around her and maybe that doesn't look like forgiveness, but I feel pretty okay with this. It's easier to forgive someone when they can't hurt you anymore.
Forgiveness requires change and effort. I will not forgive my ex wife until she can take responsibility for her actions. For now, I don't trust her, don't respect her, and don't have anymore time for her.
Amen. Even theologians don’t believe in what they call “ cheap grace “…
After 40 years of emotional abuse and 24 years of the most difficult marriage including cheating on me or threatening me, my narcissistic husband is still blaming ME for being unforgiving - hypocrisy at its best. I left him meanwhile …
I realize that many religions in the world prescribe to forgiveness, and that many around the world also believe that growth can only come after forgiveness....I am my family's scapegoat...I have spent decades healing myself...I love who I am, I am whole and have a secure attachment style in my relationships...I went No CONTACT with my siblings a decade ago...there is no bitterness inside of me, I don't think about them with any kind of pain or regret (those rare times I do think of them) and most importantly, I live a life of peace....There is no grudge inside of me...they are who they...I am myself...I have also spent a lot of time in counselling so I know that there are no stones left unturned-nothing has been pushed down and sits inside of me....I am OK...just as I am
To forgive or even to not forgive the abuser, is a choice. Honestly, the abuser will not care one way or another. Radical acceptance is the path to healing.
And always forgive yourself. You did the best you could with what you had to work with. Love yourself. You Are A Good Human Being, an asset to this world and those who love you.
One day Peace will come to your spirit. The abuser will never know peace
Small toddlers in adult bodies.
You are totally correct so treat them as such and move on when able to. They'll find another "mommy" figure
My sis thinks that I am holding a grudge towards my parents, specially my mom because they live in another country and they want to stay in my house when they come to visit because "they dont have money to pay an hotel" when I told them I will pay they say they prefer me to give them the money to use as they think is best. They not only do not respect my space and my house but want to stay for months and I am not having it. I can't change my parents but I can take care of my mental health.
I always doubt myself whether I'm doing the right thing instead of being happy that I'm doing my best. I forgive myself for believing in them..
The deeper the pain caused, the harder it is for me to forgive!!!
Toxic forgiveness is being forced on us. Some things are not ok.
It’s so funny I was thinking that today to myself. “What if I’m wrong for going NC with my narcissistic family ?… Guess I’ll just own it and say I was wrong and they’ll have to “”forgive me””” And sort of just laughed because they would never forgive ME for doing to THEM what they’ve done to me. Forgiveness is usually a one way street with these people. They would never let us out of the “box” of shame.
I don’t forgive them. Something went terribly wrong with my family, and I just don’t feel that way about them anymore.
You're allowed to change your mind and not go to NC. :)
@@michele0324I haven’t changed my mind, it was just a moment of self-doubt.
Forgiveness without boundaries with a narcissist is very dangerous. Shouldn’t do one without the other.
Not sure how you forgive a narcissist parent ...because the pain just keeps coming
Exactly. Not forgiving really comes about when you literally do not dare or want to be in a relationship with them. Forgiving yourself for giving in too many times and letting them back in your life with more abuse.
Forgiveness (or not forgiving), holding a grudge, and having boundaries are all very different things.
I won’t ever forgive my brother for all he has done; we have not spoken in over 2 years. Accepting is one thing, forgiveness is another.
Same here. It’s been the most serene two years of my life.
Sadly, I just can't forgive anymore.
Nothing to sad about. Be proud. People are monsters
No. People aren't *entitled* to forgiveness, it's your choice whether to give it or not. Anyone who tries to pressure or force you to forgive doesn't have your best interests at heart. Not everything can, or should, be forgiven. Not everything can be repaired.
My rule is that without contrition, there can be no forgiveness. By contrition, I mean that the person who wronged you must admit their guilt, be sorry for their behaviour, and then they must apologise. Not just *say* they're sorry, not just be sorry they were caught or be sorry they're in trouble, but actually *be* sorry for what they did. And the way someone shows genuine contrition or remorse is to change their behaviour, to not keep doing what they did.
Even then, you are under no obligation to forgive - but the way is now open to consider forgiveness. Handing out forgiveness without those things, may or may not make you a better person. It does, however, leave you open to repeats of the behaviour - and it reinforces that person's belief that they can do what they like, behave badly and harm others, without consequence, because they'll still be forgiven. So they won't have any reason to learn better, grow, and change.
(Edited for typos.)
I have forgiven myself first for letting me live in a toxic environment for so many years. I've never forced myself to forgive my abusers- in fact healthy anger was so helpful because it protected me from illusions. Now, I can proudly say that I just don't care and that for me is the ultimate form of unconditional love and forgiveness because it means that I accept the abusers as they are and I leave them live their life as they like, away from me and in peace. It's a magical transformational process and trusting your inner voice is crucial- self awareness, building of self love and care, mindfulness and huge inner work are tremendously important. 🙏❤️
Same. Forgiving myself only. Those people don't deserve forgivness. Better invest in yourself instead of toxic ones.
Accepting repeated bad behaviors is harmful to the forgiver. Forgiving is releasing and letting go. It is freeing to your soul.
I have been accused of all these things by keeping boundaries with the repeatedly unapologetically abusive family members. I’m expected to pretend nothing happened because ‘it’s family’ . Not ok. I wish they would see the problem is the abuser not me. Regardless I will protect myself. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
I get this crap all. the. time. Yes, the original narcissistic seems to have passed her torch to a new generation who excised me from my father’s legacy. There is nothing these people can point to that would justify this except it was the wish of the original narcissist. It HAS materially hurt me financially and personally. There is no forgiveness. This was an intentional harm that was not rectified.
My daughters are no contact with their dad. If they tell others this many are aghast that they would do this to "their Only Dad"!
What about the Dad doing this repeatedly to his children. That is why there is no contact.
Oh! My husband (diagnosed narc) always tells me I’m supposed to forgive AND forget. I remind him, i can forgive, but I’ll never forget. That doesn’t mean I’m holding a grudge, but to serve the purpose of gaining knowledge of my reality.
I'm glad you made this video, I can recall when I was homeless and faced with many things in Life until $75,000 biweekly began rolling in and my Life went from A homeless nobody to a different person with good things to offer!!!!!❤️.........
That's lovely 🌹if I may ask, How did you come up with so much biweekly ?
It's Christine Evelyn Mackie doing she's changed my life. A BROKER- like her is what you need.
$_700k and yet still counting on. Christine Evelyn Mackie is the kind of person one needs in his or her life to be honest ❤️❤️❤️>>>>
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If you were born and raised in new York you'd know too, she's my family's Broker for 3yrs till now and a very good one if you asked me. No doubt she is the one that helped you get where you are!!!!
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Forgiving means the payback game stops with me. I decline my right to an eye for an eye or a pound of flesh. I choose instead to turn the other cheek.
What the flying monkeys fail to realize is that the other cheek is not on my hapless face inviting another blow. It's below my belt, seen as I walk away from my abuser and never turn back.
Forgiveness just means their behavior no longer receives my attention. Their lonliness as a result is on them, not me.
Thank you for this message, I so desperately needed this! I am a person that is forgiving very quickly. Usually I won't go to sleep without forgiving, it's in my nature to never hold a grudge. But after 24 years of living with a narc, there are things around the break-up, that I can not forgive, they are hurting too much. And it's a relief to hear that it's ok to not forgive these things! ❤
Oh yea....I've got a big, veiny, triumphant grudge. And I plan to keep it. It feeds my anger and anger keeps me moving forward, searching for justice.
May it be triumphant 🎉
No it isn't holding a grudge. It's preventing further abuse, manipulation, and betrayal. Protecting your sanity and peace.
I was going to say exactly this!!!
Well said! And it goes hand in hand with no contact. I’m so tired of hearing it called the silent treatment, no contact from an abuser is just to protect yourself. To protect your sanity that way too. 😊
It's not a grudge, it's a boundary.
Thank you for saying this because I am currently struggling with this myself especially because my father is not aware that the reason I don’t call anymore is because I do not wish to speak with my narcissistic gaslighting mother and I fear he thinks that I have Disconnected from the Family in General Even though I do maintain much less contact with the Family in General because they all act as enablers to my Mother so I often can not find common Ground with them either. It’s very hard for me right now.
needed this response 🎉
I’m not forgiving a narcissist, I did already and they continued the behavior and hurt others
Literally waking up after having this EXACT CONVERSATION LAST NIGHT with my step mom and dad. Neither who have experienced narcissism. I am bawling because talk about nail on the head. Add to not forgiving the fact that your abuser is your mother and the stigma of going no contact is compounded. Thank you thank you thank you 🙏
I know you finished with “never read the comment section” but in case you do, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS. This was so empowering.
I was accused of gossip for telling my experience.
I was accused of slander for telling of my experience.
You cannot ever end the night mare.
@allenone6970 Sounds like we had very similar experiences. Repeated negative messages are like brainwashing and VERY difficult (or impossible?) to erase.
Must be flying monkeys throwing that shade...tell your story until YOU get bored of it...and you wii
Forgiveness in my heart is beneficial for me. Forgetting is not beneficial for me ❤❤❤
That is it Dr. Ramani…i was put in a cycle of insults and forgiving, betrayal then forgiving, ghosting then taking them back, confusion and being stood up and making excuses for them x 10+ years and he had no idea I lacked sleep, feverish, crying, chest pains, distraction, in despair, my hair thinning, eyes twitching , headaches, inflammation, isolation, lost time spent with family good friends.
Since i was a young boy, i rebel against my oldests narcisists brother, since then we have never gotten along, and now that we aré full grown adults we have drifted spart, they dont care about me and i dont care about them, i dont hold a grudge against them, i just stay away for my own well being.
I’ve been told that I hold grudges and that I “need” to forgive those that have cut me to my soul. I would always forgive them and the abusive, psychological torment continued for decades. And now that I have cut these people out of my life, my own adult child has started to tell me I am holding a grudge against them.
It's hard to forgive someone who hasn't apologised / isn't sorry for what they have done to hurt you and who will probably keep doing it as they don't think they did anything wrong... I think most people really don't understand what it is like until they have experienced narcissistic abuse themselves, especially from someone close ..
I'll forgive them the day they take accountability for what they've done.
Sadly, that rarely happens. It's not in their nature.
@@redwarrior2424 Yes, i'm guessing i'll be forgiving them on the first cold day in h*ll :P hahaha
They haven't walked in our shoes.
The wisdom Dr. Ramani exudes (& shares) is absolutely amazing!! I LOVE THESE BLOGS. She has taught me SO MUCH.
I completely get this......one of the narcissists I know said to me (before I FINALLY went NO CONTACT...) "OH hey"..... "I don't hold a grudge....." chuckle chuckle....he gave me one more reason to....go NO CONTACT; that was the final straw for me.
This is the first time I've ever heard that you really don't HAVE to forgive someone. Everyone always says forgive, but don't forget what they did and that forgiving is the only way to heal from things, but wow how mind blowing of a concept that forgiveness is a personal choice. Thank you Dr. Ramani!!
What is wrong holding a grudge? It's a normal feeling towards a person who treated you really bad.
Exactly!!! How people don't comprehend this is mind blowing
Forgiveness, love and light is often what gets us into this mess. 😂❤
This got me to tears, Dr Ramani gets my pain like a Mother would!!
Thanks for this great explanation and clarification! I broke this down into a formula as simple and sure as mathematics:
F NOT R = L
Where 'F' is forgiveness, 'R' is repentance, and 'L' is license. Narcissists know this formula well. They only insist that you "forgive" them to have "license" (your willful enablement) to continue abusing you without consequence or possibility of you disabling them by choosing to no longer be their source of supply by disengaging or leaving them.
The intent of forgiveness is to restore a broken relationship. To work, it demands that both parties desire and value a mutually beneficial relationship and the value it brings. The target of the narcissist provides "F" and the Narcissist MUST provide true, heartfelt and permanent 'R'.
Understanding this, the function of "F" must be "true", and ONLY works correctly IF 'R' is also true:
F AND R = A
Where 'A' is accord and agreement in a fully resorted mutually desired and beneficial relationship.
It’s not a grudge, it’s making sure it never happens again. Ever.
"Forgiveness is different from reconciliation" doesn't make sense to narcissists and enablers because they mix up those two.
Thank you Dr. Romani❤
I don't forgive Evil...
He Doesn't deserve forgiveness at 2 attempts to reconcile¿
WTH
It was a hard lesson to study & learn about the Coverts.
I am Free🎉 I am not ashamed🎉
Forgiving a narcissist gets you nowhere. Some see it as a license to keep doing what they've always done. Once I found out an ex was a narcissists, I had no interest in forgiveness. I began to accept who he was and removed myself from the situation. It's trickier when it's a parent, but I have accepted who my father is, and I stopped wanting something he is incapable of giving. Learning about narcissism has truly been a revelation and I am thankful for Dr. Ramani.
After what they they did? i'll hold that grudge until the day I die IDGAF
Forgiving is for my benefit. However, that doesn’t mean you go on as usual. I can forgive but I probably will choose to end the relationship.
Had one marriage guidance counsellor preach unconditional love, let it go, stop bringing up the past, move forward 🤯