Because with good gear, and augments, even someone who levelled with minimum strength can still do high melee damage. And I'd almost argue, in most cases, Magick is even more forgiving because of elemental weaknesses.
@@dugarrYT I keep seeing people say Magick Archer especially needs to min/max and it's like. MA is the only class in the game that can buff its magick attack 4 times without periapts. I really don't think that's necessary. Mystic Knight's Great Cannon not doing much even when you enchant your weapon? Then carry perma-enchanted weapons and you'll see that damage skyrocket when goldforged.
This is what I keep telling people about this game. Nihil made a similar video and even after he proved that min/max wasn’t helpful, there were still people saying “you have to min/max if you play on hardcore.” Your doing good work by spreading awareness of this problem.
@@GReynassasin is my favorite because it can handle everything. Ascalion with tusk toss for wisps and ghosts. Heaven's keys with masterful kill for enchanted armors. Bows for ranged, sword for melee, dagger for countering enemies that are more bs than fun to fight. Dire gouge for climbing damage... Love that class.
Solid video, I've seen another where a MA was taken through 190 levels as an MA, Sorcerer and Ranger and the difference in kill times for that BBI room with the Eliminators and Ogres was about 30 seconds either side. When compared to the base MA, the Sorcerer ran out of stamina faster so had to wait more to do their damage, the Ranger didn't do as much damage but was able to keep doing it for longer because of their crazy stamina. It really does not matter that much and I'm glad the message is getting put out more that people should just play how they want to.
I always just maxed out all the vocations and played what sounded fun on a given day. My characters always ended up perfectly fine, even if I did play a lot as Warrior or Fighter and swapped to Sorcerer. I usually like well-rounded characters anyway... as opposed to being pigeon-holed into a single built.
@@datonedumbasian4919 Sure, you COULD but it's definitely not necessary to enjoy the game. I can see how if you build a character a certain way, they will be very powerful. My point is: you end up extremely powerful rgardless of what you play as. I think if someone were to level 1 - 10 Mage then 11 - 200 Sorcerer for an extremely powerful casting build, they would get bored of casting all the time and want to play the other vocations in the game.
@@WizardinBlack3 i can see it, although i like to min max not because of the stats but because it gives me a goal and plan to follow instead yoloing it and taking longer to progress in turn for more exploration around the game, i like making many one roll characters because of such, although,while rarely, i do like to just not think and just play for gear, not worrying about what level i am for the best stats sometimes, so its not like i dont like the idea but i like to have a plan and goal for me to play.
@@datonedumbasian4919 I hadn't thought about it that way before. In most RPGs, you cannot change your class at will and I think that feature being in Dragon's Dogma is something that makes the game so unique. I like to take aadvantage of it as much as possible. Plus, fighting certain enemies is rough as certain vocations (Warrior struggles ALOT in Bitterblack unless you get really good with a particular skill set). I can see how if you built a character specifially for one class it can be fun though
I've personally never done any builds and just leveled up as the class I wanted to play as then did the others to get all the augments after lvl 200 but Isn't stamina the only stat that REALLY makes a difference when it comes to what class you level as
Stamina definitely has an impact, but not as much as you might think. There are items and augments that can raise your max stamina or reduce the consumption of it. You could say that the way you level up determines the usefulness of other aspects of the game.
@@nowherefool5869if at maximum optimised build a boss is hard thqt make the normal players that do whatever have a bad time playing the game think about it
My optimail build: get 3-4k stamina. Everything else doesn't matter imo, you can make a full sorc and with gear+augments you can still play melee classes and break defense thresholds. Gobble up some peripaths and you're golden. The real damage comes from choosing the right weapons/spells/tools for a fight according to enemy vulnerabilities, knowing your class+enemy patterns. If you take pawns, have at least one compliment your choices.
There is no need to minmax but my goodness I hope that Dragons dogma 2 is going to feature more vocations and multiple save slots. I cannot stress how much I got frustrated over the idea of wanting to try and do a different build but needing to basically restart the game to do it due to how stat distribution works. Also this game is not easy even if you are a minmaxer, its just that throwblasts can solo the game on their own because of how staggering and Ai work. There is so many guides to cheesing bitterblack it just makes me wonder if anyone plays the game normally anymore.
i run a balanced build for around 200 runs now. switch vocations to my mood und it works fine. don't have the urge to start from 0 again just for stats.
Well heres the "But sometimes" Ive always thought the more min/max builds are more for allowing a greater variety of builds and gear loadouts while still being able to hit defense break points. Most people tend to dislike the manufactured clone or cookie cutter effect of everyone equiping the same best in slot items.
The best in slot mentality is something that changes if you don't care for min/maxing. If you just play and end up with a melee oriented character and than decide to play a magick vocation, chances are that you have different best in slot items. which in case makes the game more interesting. at least for me it does.
So the the whole mix/maxing thing started befor the Dragons Dogma Dark Arisen release meaning befor the much stronger BBI gear where a couple hundred extra strength is just a drip in the ocean where as raising your defenses has more value now
I started out minmaxxing my current character for magic attack but eventually I just decided to play physical vocations with it bc I got bored of only playing magic classes, and guess what, I play just fine with warrior even tho I started out minmaxxing for sorcerer. It's indeed pointless.
I got that quick, but the only stats you cant raise from weapons or armors is your stamina and HP (maybe from rings), to me is fun to raise as a kinght 130 lvls + a mix from everyone to make a tanky character. I noticed that your required stats come from weapons/armors + vocations skills which grant you a % of magic or atk
@@dugarrYT yeah, in steam someone left a strider lvl 5 with best weapons max forged + those rings with 500HP each, so that pawn can help you very well even agains grigory
This is true for the main game, however hard mode bbi is a different story. Many enemies in hard mode bbi have high dmg thresholds you need to meet to even get to the hp and if you dont optimize at least a bit for the vocations you intend to play you will find yourself doing from little to no dmg even with some late game gear forcing you to carry around consumables that occupy precious space.
I don't deny that planning out your character makes it easier, my experience however tells me that gear+augments can outweight stats pretty good. So you will never come to a point where your Arisen is unplayable.
that defense bit is absolutely dumb lol. or enemies i mean. the balance in this game is all over the place. you must be this tall to ride this ride mentality. if they wanted bullet sponge enemies they shoulda increased hp not defense.
@@colonelradec5956 The main problem with the balance in this game is that Gransys has a different balancing than BBI. As soon as you get BBI Gear you break the main game. To make Enemies harder through defense is, in my opinion, the better way. If you just pump up the health you get a sponge whatever you do, but if you just raise the defense against melee, than it is a sponge for melee only and you can make quick process with elemental damage. So you are rewarded for adapting to the enemy.
@@dugarrYT no your right on the defense bit but i dont think i explained what i meant very well. what i mean more is having defense so high you cant damage something. ive never fully beat everything in game but in the main game it seemed like there was like enemies you were flat out restricted from fighting until you had better gear. even in the basic overworld. was annoying as hell to fight and kill things then walk 30 feet and do literally 0 damage. ok literally 1 damage. i have yet to beat the dlc so i have no idea how bad that gets at the bottom. i just felt super restricted to staying on the main mission path most of the main game. either i overpowered enemies or i couldn't hurt them at all. like even enemies that had no specific weakness to magic. like humans. i dont know based on what im hearing even in the dlc you wont get to a point where your doing 0 damage if you go in at the appropriate level. hope thats true. i just know doing 0 damage to an enemy sucks ass 😂
@@dugarrYT like i felt like i could not proceed unless i got lucky and found a better weapon at some stages of the game. then id get stronger and the entire game would be a joke. i wish there wasnt such a big gap between enemies defense wise is all i mean.
I actually made my own mish-mash of mods to balance out stat leveling in this game across all vocations back in the day. IIRC, with it, playing any class on any combination would end up to a good balance of stats by max level so there was no worry in losing out points. As for when I wanted to min-max, I left out the Warrior and the Sorcerer to gain extra points on the offense stat either one leaned on so they would stick out a little bit by max level when used to min-max. That way, I could play the game on any class I wanted without worrying for stat growths. And by the time I settle down on the class I actually wanted to be, my stats would be just perfect for it until max level. Sure, it might take away the "fun" in min-maxing stats (for people who enjoy that kind of math in their game), but to me experiencing all the game has to offer without worrying that I have to respec or do a new save/build is way more enjoyable. I do wish that on the next game they would do away with this kind of system, and instead put stats on a plateau, while allowing players to learn class-specific/class-only passive stat bonuses that make each class shine on their own field. Like, say you have a melee class compared to a mage class. Both would have equal max stat growths by the end, but in each class the player is able to learn and pickup stat-boosting passive perks that will only work when that class is being used. This would give players the freedom to actually build classes that are good on what they do by making effort in playing the game and then spending gained points, without having to rely on being bound to a specific class they do not want across the average length of the game.
that is an interesting view on it. i would like to see something like that in a sequel. while we can do a lot with mods on pc we habe no chance on consoles.
@@dugarrYT Yeah, that's pretty much the only issue with consoles. No modding support. It's not like the idea I just said is anything special too. Imagine unlocking passives via character level, and then getting the ability to learn "Strength Up I/II/III" as Fighter which boosts the physical damage stat only when you have the class on. We can have two fighters (one of which came from being purely a mage) and they would both dish out the same damage based purely on stats alone. What would "max" out the pure-fighter would be the fact that that one has already picked up all three passive perks since it has spent more time (and thus gained more points) on using that vocation as a main. If we switch both's setups and the pure-fighter then tries out being mage, it would have the same stat-only magic damage as the pure-mage (same level). And same physical damage (since you lose the passive perk effect), but the pure mage would have already learned "Magic Attack Up I/II/III" since it spent its class points on that while playing so it would have the "maxed" magic damage when taken into account. Long story short, the perk would only take effect and matter when you are actually playing that class, while stat-wise everybody is equal level-wise. At the same time, the perk builds would differentiate each player from the other of the same class, as each person builds the skills and perks they want.
I like that. Its like the Skill/Augment System we have know for weapons. Like the double jump for daggerst. you get it by lvling a yellow vocation bit lose it by switching to another.
I’m just curious as to why you felt like your stats were so low that you had to start over when gear and augments make up the bulk of your damage anyway. I main a 10-200 MK on hardcore and I solo BBL with him. I feel like I often do too much damage to most enemies, and MK has some of the lowest offensive stat growth in the base game. I’m just trying to figure out why base stats seem to be such a contentious issue in this game when they don’t really effect gameplay that much.
While I agree with your point about minmaxing not being worth it overall, the fact that you're playing mystic knight (one of the most balanced classes in the games in terms of magical vs physical damage output) probably has a big impact on your damage being pretty equal minmaxed or not. Playing as a ranger/sorcerer/warrior etc that's been minmaxed will definitely have you doing a good amount of damage more than you would in a nonminmaxed build due to the damage calculations in this game. Ultimately though, I think you're right in that it's not worth missing out on the cool and unique play styles on offer just to increase damage by 20% or so.
Fully agree with what you said. I choose the Mystic Knight in this Video just because of that. It demonstrates how the Game rebalances itself. I could have made two clips from different Vocations and compare them, but i think that would unnecessarily bloat the Video and waste the time of my audience.
Nihil has a video of a Magick Archer killing everything in a BBI room as a Full Mag build, Full Stam build or as a 10-200 MA build. The difference is very small, 1 minute of difference between the slowest and fastest (average of 6 minutes). Full Mag has more raw power, full Stam can spam more and MA build is more balanced. Overall everything works out, yeah if you want the absolute best of a stat you can min-max but if you don't you won't be gimped, you'll just have another stat higher that's gonna prop your character up some other way.
@@maephial699 Nihils video also has him playing sorc using a fair bit of daggers and ranger using a lot of bow. which both would have far faster times if played to the advantage of the build instead of just trying to play the same way in all 3 attempts, and also has using the full bbw3 gold rarified which is really what brings the true balance to the table, as without it you need bbw2 dragon forged to even break daimons defense without talismans. as a pure MA. All builds can do everything, especially true if you get gold rarified BBW3. before you have them though talismans may be required.
ive remember the first time that ive played, i got from assassin, to mystick knight to sorcer thant to magick archer, man i was so porwerfull never got that build after
I started playing a few months ago because of the OP Magick Archer video, switched from Strider to that vocation at the first opportunity and ended up very frustrated with the very low damage I was doing. Of course, I didn't look at any guides until I had enough of being the toy of bandits. After maxing all vocations, Warrior can eat my arrows, I love Assassin.
Magick Archer takes a long time to become good. With the right gear he is the strongest BBI Vocation by far, but he is mediocre for leveling. Assassin is the most "complete" Vocation, he has something for every situation and lvls great.
@@ncpsurfgod6373 I work every day of the week, and it's so worth it, in addition to the absolute crazy things that each vocation can do, the general abilities that you unlock are very important. There is one that increases the amount of weight you can carry that doesn't seem like much but after using it it is very, VERY necessary. All vocations have something to contribute to others.
maxing out vocations is not the same as min/maxing. i recommend to max out every vocation eventually, but that can happen even after you reached max level.
I always go 10 strider 50 assassin and 60 sorcerer then go into the class i want to play as. I got my balance of magic and strength anything else can be covered by my equipment
@@dugarrYT im always hitting ng+ with those stats im practically good to go into any vocation. If I want a specific play through then I'd just play as that class the game is lenient on if you make mistakes with stat growth
once i figured min/max is a waste of time i just stopped with (the more or less balanced stats) what i got and play NG+ with different augments if i switch vocations.
@@dugarrYT same when people told me back in the day that stats mattered I showed them my Frankenstein build of 10 mag 15 assassin 15 ranger 15 fighter 15 sorcerer 15 MA and 15 MK it also didn't help their argument when my pawn was so good. (This was before I knew different vocation gave you different stat growth)
i still believe that a frequent change of vocations during leveling was planned for by the delevopers. so yeah, play what you like should be the way to go.
It's more important to focus on your end Health and Stamina than Attack and Defense. Attk and Def can easily be fixed and adjusted with gear. High stamina is very useful for pretty much all vocations besides warrior and mage.
I agree, this is significantly more relevant. At 200 you could have as low as 2000+ stamina or as high as 5000 stamina. For differant vocations this can be significant improvements or not.
@@merrickmiller1224 I still see it as some sort of convenient factor. For my characters with low stamina i rely heavily on liquid vim. which i don't have if i leveled for it.
Hahaha wished you exist couple years ago when I start. We got nihils tho but your guide is simplefy and helpful for newbies meanwhile Nihil's guide is better for advance player. Looking into you in the future.
I honestly just picked my starting vocation and just level until I get to max rank (It was a Strider because of the weight capacity Augment). Then I'll max the others, one by one, starting with the polar opposites, like Assassin and Sorcerer, than Mage and Fighter, this way I'll just end up with decent points in every stats. If I still have too many levels to go, then I'll just pick my favourite, since I'll have experience with all of them, at this point I'll absolutely have enough points to not care at all about the way I level. I'm heavily inclined towards the bow wielders in particular, Ranger and Magick Archers are weirdly fun to play, even though they just spam arrows.
it dosnt really matter that much becuase I played MA to infinity without changing vocation which gave me only 3586 HP/3560 stamina...which isnt the most powerful build. i use magic balancer to BOOST/Stack..and magic bow ring to 9 fold and rivet bolt. Plus a master ring with 39 increase of stagger I can kill alot of enemies before I enter the room with richet..lmao But it gets old..so I'll just do melee...or cutting wind and slice silver and gold to death. At first..yes, it was dark ans scary ( I can play without using my lamp in BBI, now) I can shoot dragons out of the sky all day long...that's no fun after a while..So I'll scale it. Then I bore of that...then i do a face down combat... It'll charge me...I'll charge it...One of us is going to die. The game's A.I. ADJUST. Yesterday, the dark bishop/Curse dragon...The Bishop spawned inside the stairways...and he didnt want to come out and play...becuase I'll kill him easy. I can kill that dragon with ONE shot. DEATH spawns in...while the 2 dragons are still alive ( sparyard) spaming magic. It's on HARD..it's not easy....but it's FUN and a challenge.. The worst that can happen is...I die and REPLAY.lol The combat is different everytime I play ( whatever enemies)...becuase I fight them different...I dont always do what most efficient or practical. I'll PLAY the game just for FUN..depending what mood I'm in. i do alot of goofy stuff..I'll throw an undead at a skeletonlord just for kicks.
@@dugarrYT I played MK with 4800/3800 in the original version. i was God...I switch over to MK in Dark Arisen with 3586/3560 build..Gold Forge everything, best weapons/armor and Max skills...I get arss Kick in BBI.lmao I have to combat totally different. Plus I play with Pawns. Training my Pawn's A.I. is totally cool. To watch her get better at combating different enemies..and change her vocations..She sucks at first with a different vocation. Even with max skills....because she simply didnt have enough combat with various enemies. I basically change my ROLE. Im her body guard ..so she can gain combat experience. (not so much points) i dont kill everything right away..or let my pawns do most of the combat. There's a lot of different ways to play/experience this game. That's why I still play it.
@@dugarrYT Yes..definitely. I barely found out about the game 2 months ago. It'll be one those games that I will replay throughout the years. I purchased another xbox360 E just to make sure..I'll have spare parts to run the game 10 years from now.lol
I needed this video, thank you. The majority of Google searches I did talked about Min/Max making your character insanely powerful. In reality I want a melee that can use 2H or DW. After a couple of hours searching and avoiding MK or Magic Archer "iS tHe BeSt!" I was able to settle on Strider > Warrior for Traits > Assassin to max. I just like being in the fray and bonking. Thank you, again, Dugarr!
I hate and also like min-maxing, because playing as glass-cannon is fun for me. Altho hitting too big numbers on enemies may end up boring; regardless what build you pick - you will eventually adjust your gameplay to stats you have anyway. More Tanky = means you will play more reckless, wanting to spam attacks to keep up with dmg. Less Tanky = means you will play more strategic, learning enemy patterns and weaknesses. Less Stamina = Less reckless spamming attacks (since missing opponent will be more painful) + you won't just holding block, but instead wish to Perfect Block.
I dont use bitterblack weapons in the game, cause they are Breaking the Games Balance. Its going Too easy. So im using just Max 1100 attack Power, to Balance the game in Mailand and bitterblack. Im using simple weapons to keep the Challenge and Fun
i'm going cassardis he-man clothing, leather straps, budget greaves and a tight cinquedea with ancient circlet, almost max build for defense and HP. It takes more time to kill but if i'm sloppy I die on harder monsters. On BBI I have to be really careful and prepare well against deadlier enemies with items and periaps - or else it's impossible.
I've been trying to tell this exact same thing on Reddit and other platforms for YEARS....I'll just tell them to check this video you got the like right from the title 😂😂😂 very well made video to fix such a huge misinterpretation of this game
Ok well this actually proved to me that min-maxing is very important. Looking at Magick damage explicitly 634 is a 65% increase over the attack build. And a 48% increase over the balanced... the game isn't hard so do whatever you want though min-maxing is a huge benefit.
I max leveled all vocations except mage and sorcerer and I want to main as a mystic knight, currently am level 82-83 and defeated Grigori yesterday. At first I was thinking I lack MATK and I have to play as a mage and sorcerer to increase it but you’re saying it doesn’t won’t affect my stats?(except the augments. I still feel there are specific augments in sorcerer and mage that are reliable my personal build)
you should (at some point) max all vocations to get all augments. maxing sorcerer just to get Acuity and Articulacy makes a big difference. Stat wise it doesn’t really matter if you lvl as sorcerer or not.
@@dugarrYT 1st = if u max out ur stamina, does stamina regeneration still fast for smallest character? 2nd= how to solve the problem of smallest character who bcome overweight easily. The world is pretty big, so many item to pick up. I love fast regeneration but overweight system is bugged me out. If the answer is transferring item to pawn, can i take it back from him directly? Coz i dont see options to take item from pawn 3rd= i want to make strider pawn who focus solely on physical attack. Should i go to fighter or warrior or ranger road to lvl up? I mean starting lvl 10-100. My gut said to warrior road but stamina deduction. Ouch. Does pawn AI can run out stamina n bcome tired? Coz i hve not seeing yet in video so far. If so then i suppose not to worry or focus much on pawn stamina. Can u recommend one for me? I dont feel want to change vocation much for my pawn until he/she max out his/her lvl. I start this game in hard mode right away coz i heard this game bcome super easy once u get decent gear especially when all enemies/boss doesn't increase their HP at all. But hard mode give them triple resistance which is interesting but still doable for beginners like me.
you are overthinking. stamina regeneration and stamina pool don't have anything in common, so max out stamina still regens faster on small characters. items can be transferred between you and your pawn at any time. it does not matter in which way you or your pawn level up. even still if you want to min-/max, you wont do it on your first playthrough, if you try chances are that you wont have fun. min-/maxing while still learning how the game works is a chore. pawns can run out of stamina, but you can just run up to them an "give" some to them.
@@dugarrYT thank u for the answer. I know its my first playthrough. But i do watch a lot dragon drogma video including ur channel b4 start playing to learn game mechanic. Its just somehow i dont find the answer I'm looking for. But at least now thanks to u it give me a bit confident to start a smaller character.
True Min/max in dragons dogma is just maxing every vocation rank for all of the over powered augments to turn every character into a god (unless you’re gonna do the 1 shot warrior build, that’s THE only time maxing a stat (strength) makes sense)
This is great news as I've heard I should level Sorcerer for a bit to play Magick Archer, but... I'm sorry... I hate it. No hate on those that enjoy Sorcerer, but playing on that class is more frustrating than anything else.
"You will never break your character into something unplayable" me: but- i leveled up 20 strider then another 20 for fighter then another 20 for mage another 20 for ranger another 20 for warrior another 20 for sorcerer another 20 for magic archer another 20 for mystic night another 20 and then 40 for strider-
The way id lv up fast is get a bunch of bomb arrows go to death and then hide in one spot then he will teleport to me and i shoot him and after a while he will fall down into the void and insta die
The hybrid build as recommended by Infinite Cringe allows you to play any class effectively with Strength and Magic both at 600+. Funnily enough, when testing the build as MK with dinput8.dll, it is actually slightly faster at killing Daimon than the same character with 700+ and 800+ magic, both with and without Periapts, using only blessed riposte and holy enchanted great cannons. The more important factors are weapons and periapts instead of stats.
I just started a balanced min max to be average on every stat but that's only because Strider is my favorite class only second to Warrior. But Warrior is slow as heck to lvl up so balanced build sounds reasonable to me Edit: having more stamina and balanced stats is pretty much the wah to go really, you can use your abilities more often without much worries about getting too low on stamina
I'm going fighter assassin for the insane stamina and also BBI defense thresholds are a huge bitch if you don't have good gear. I had to run around using mighty bend on daemon 2nd form for like 10 minutes because it was the only move i had that barely broke his 2500 def threshold. If I leveled haphazardly I would've had to wipe.
to be honest, i never had any issues with the damage theshold. fights take a bit longer, but coming from Monster Hunter that is not really an issue for me and as soon as i got Lv2 weapons all got better.
like i know you are testing it yourself but I feel like I do less damage going full strength when I use enchanted weapons is what I was trying to say which is far more useful than straight up physical damage thanks to how many enemies are resistant to physical and magical. I feel like relying on strength or magic alone is suffering it only makes the game harder.
I’ve min maxed before with BBi gear but I won’t do it again. Difference in damage was less than 400 but the weapon killed in the same amount of time lol. If I play sorcery, I do 10 levels of warrior ranger and mystic knight. After that I play sorcerer. Who the F wants to play 200 levels of a class they don’t like just to be the “perfect” build.
@@dugarrYT exactly. It just isn’t worth it. Not if you play 200 levels warrior or fighter then jump to mage yea you’ll see a major difference. Other than that I tell people just rank 9 all vocations. That will give you enough extra stats to make your experience better
I'm confused You get twice as much melee damage with maxed strength vs maxed magic You get almost twice as much damage with maxed magic vs maxed strength And you conclude min/max does not matter?
I min max but only because I know exactly what I want out of my characters. I often like to experiment with a variety of weapon types. Weaker weapons have great effects but can be very unviable and weak in certain battles if I didn’t min max strength for my arisen or magic for my sorcerer. I like the weapons that give debilitating effects because they’re a lot of fun but the damage can often be pitiful without the right investment. But also max strength framme daggers brain splitter go brrrr
Tried Mystic Knight and wasn't all that impressed with it. My intent was to go 10 strider/90 Sorcerer/100 Mystic Knight (yes I know the stats technically suck for MK after level 100 compared to others, but I wanted to try it out) I didn't even get to 60 as a Sorcerer. I hate the slow cast times that guarantee you'll never hit a damned thing, and waste your entire stamina bar trying. I stuck it out to rank MK to vocation 8: Did get the supposed "best" moves, or the most useful ones as far as I'd thought (heal, on strike and block seem like they should be good - but I suck at blocking) The magic cannon wasn't all that great [I assume it's probably a little more impressive at max level] so in the end I went back to my favored assassin. Now I'm trying 10 Fighter/90 Assassin/100 Fighter (fighter gets the same Def points as Assassin gets Strength, for the best defense past 100 - and gets 15 HP per level up past 100) I do prefer the bow access that Assassin gets [As much as I HATE that the best moves in the game are essentially magical machine guns = I'm hoping they can be more creative and more balanced in favor of the player in DD2] I also like the invisibility and the masterful kill. (It doesn't always work; but it works a lot of the time) * I do wish that invisibility wasn't such a stamina tax though. Liquid Vim for the win! (It's such a pain in the ass to make though...) I'd go Max Assassin except for the point below. I'd rather not be dead in one hit from something 10 times my size. It's still probably going to be mostly dead; but I can handle "mostly." Funny point: I have the Dragon's Ire bow fully maxed at 3 = am not strong enough to go for the drake near the shadowfort yet, and even though it says I do anywhere from 1400-1600 damage - I use bloodlust & Autonomy; I still take 2 shots with fivefold flurry to kill a freaking regular Saurian. Nevermind the other variants. [I put it to Hard Mode to get exp a little faster - it was taking forever to get anywhere with the other builds I made on easy] * I'm hoping to be able to one shot the buggers reliably with basic attacks sometime before I hit Level 200. Though as far as I can see it'll probably be level 199 lol. Problem with the saurian specific daggers is you still have to dance around them trying to get to the tail. Which as far as I've played more often than not, they move just as soon as I manage it. : / I would have pointed out that with the physical build to the magical: you lose about half of your much more impressive chunk of physical damage, to get double the not so impressive magical damage... but again; my bow issue proves it doesn't really seem to matter what damage it says you do. I'm not sure the game always calculates it correctly anyway.
So, if you like all vocations and don't mind playing them to ultra-specialize, go for it, but even if you level ""suboptimally"" your character will never be really crippled in any way.
Can vouche for this, been swapping between mk, strider, warrior, fighter, mage and sorcerer for like 100 lvls and I'm not feeling any really big power drops
This mainly applies to new players and people that will just play through the game once and call it a day. Most min/maxers are people that have a lot of experience with the game and already know what classes they like and dislike so they decide to make their build as effective as possible even if it’s just to hit for like 500 more damage. There’s nothing wrong with mix/maxing and it’s not nearly as annoying or inconvenient as you made it out to be especially since you can get to level 200 in less than a day by farming death.
min/max isn't wrong at all if you have fun with it. what's wrong is telling people they have to do it. for someone who doesn't know the game it is such a drag that many quit the game.
Yes! This game is more about core skill and equipment/augments for more damage. Min/Max only makes things quicker. The community talking so much about min/max actually scares some people away while you can just enjoy the game and then learn about this deep stuff to try being more powerful for the heck of it if you like this kind of stuff. I don't care about it. I just play the class I want and that's it. It works wonders
I'm a bit stupid or I don't know, when I saw those videos of min max I thought to my self " I can do just as well without a good min/max " and as such I did my first run without min/max. I'm stuck just because I can't find lv3 cursed items 🤣
@@dugarrYT I had beaten it once and now I trying to find anything, I got the locations of good and average chests and yet my luck is horrible. I got like 100 liftstones and lots of trash
to come to that conclusion you totally ignore the hybrid nature of the mystic knight. this video shows that you don't have to lvl as a sorcerer to do dmg as a mystic knight, because it balances itself.
Isn't this video for every class not just hybrid? If I was magic DPS and the entire game and watch to swap role to physical at the end I am screw. But I do appreciate the numbers though. At the very most it is only 2x difference and not 5x from min to max.
i choose hybrid because it is the most obvious. if you do a total switch from magick to physical you are right, the difference is noticable. you can still counter it with items though. your gear has a way bigger impact as how you lvl up.
Min-Maxing isn’t even something I enjoy. There’s a reason why higher difficulty oblivion scares me as unless you use summons or abuse followers, you kinda have to min max. But here? It doesn’t feel nessicary. Sure, melting bosses in like 2-3 seconds is nice and all but like… have fun playing as builds that don’t fit your playstyle just to achieve it. Glad to have found this video, as it makes me feels more comfortable with doing basically whatever build strikes my fancy at the moment without having to worry about what levels up. This, combined with your size matters video, made me think of a interesting arisin main pawn combination. A short, light mage into sorcerer arisin, and a tall, muscle clad fighter into warrior main pawn with a personality of doing his best to keep the heat off of me so I can cast my spells from a safe distance.
I don't understand people who get to 200 as a class just to start playing with a different (now min/maxed) class that they actually want to play. Reminds me of that Southpark WoW episode.
I pritty much stsrt as a strider till level10 then into ranger for 40 magic archer for like another 20 then leveled everthing till 90 am now a mystic knight 120 could not be happer nuke parrying everything
@@dugarrYT :DDD hehe, if I cannot pass the threshold there might be even more hits needed :D But what I meant was it means twice many hits with low vs top strength in this scenario Nice job and comparation anyway.
@@panhouska you are right at that. i see it more as an convenience. you get faster in killing if you optimize, but you can still finish all content even if you don't.
I for over 10 yrs could never stand these glass cannon gamers who swear by min max. What make them really annoying is that they are always trying to infect other gamers with their nonsense with min/max videos. What good is high damage when a level 1 enemy can 1 shot you?
everyone should play the way they want, but the "infectiveness" you mention is what grinds my gears. to many people give up on great games because someone told them they have to do X or Y or the game is not "playable"
Min-maxing is for scrubs. Play at least 6 different vocations to grab an Augment that'll compliment your final playstyle. For those who end up as Magic Knight, it be wise to consider these augments to increase your damage output, while also keeping in mind Dark Arisen caps the buffing to 80%. Fighter's Rank 8 Vehemence -10%Str; Striders Eminence - 30% more Jump Attack Dam or "Arm-Strength" to cling to large enemies better; Mage's Attunement- 10% magic; Warrior's Clout - 20% Str, Proficiency(25% stam reduction to physical moves,) or Ferocity -10% damage for Core Skills; Sorceror's Acuity -10% magic or Articulacy - Faster Spell Cast Assassin's Bloodlust(For fighting at Night) or Autonomy(if you solo at night) which both Give 20%Str/Mag and 30% to Phys/Mag Defense.
right, seems off to play all the way to 200 and only then do the vocations for the augmentations. unnecessary prolongs the wait till you can "play" what you want.
"YoU nEEd tO MInMaX if U plAy HaRdcORE" I play on hard mode exclusively. NEVER did those dumb minmax strats and had a fairly easy time. I don't get the mindset.
I have done a few min/max hybrid builds. Although fun to crunch numbers the first couple times, it gets boring after that. Personally i dont enjoy assassin much so playing 60+ levels with it, is just a slow death. Honestly i prefer magic classes but sorc can also get boring. The hybrid classes are the most fun for me. On my current playthrough i started as strider, got like 20 levels of magic archer immediately and now switched to MK. Ill just play whatever i feel like at the moment. Probably gonna swap to ranger in a few levels. I have never actually played ranger. I have played more warrior than ranger lol. 😅
i barely know the game and honestly i don't feel this explains properly that min/maxing is stupid. It seems to be based on play style really imo. If you happen to use your reposte as a mystic knight as your primary damage source than it makes sense to focus on magick but if you rarely block or don't rely on blocking as your primary damage source then physical stats would be ideal. but this only comes from my base understanding of mystic knight, I am unsure if their main hand weapon uses both stats or only one and idk if enchanting the weapon causes it to use the secondary stat if it isn't already. same with the shield. even if it does use both stats what about in cases where you play one type of class over another that doesn't use a mix of these stats such as the strider or ranger or even mage? how would magic benefit the strider and ranger and how would the physical damage effect the mage? This might prove that min/maxing for special classes is stupid but idk about the other more pure line classes, and that's if anyone even considers those classes worthwhile to play. I admit from the videos i've seen most people play the special/hybrid classes it seems.
@@dugarrYT considering how strong gear is in the dark arisen version I believe it. Just stating your explanation doesn't feel very thorough. In the case for the mystic knight however it does feel pretty accurate but not so much for vocations that use only one of those stats.
As someone who hasn't min/maxed at all, and didn't know that leveling as a specific vocation affected stat growth until today, this video proves the opposite thing imo
While there is a lot of effort put into this, the conclusion is lacking. This conclusion only works because you are looking at a class that does both. You are correct that every ounce of strength gained means the magic aspect of my character gets weaker, so that a natural balance between growing strong on one side and growing weak on the other works. However, if I dont actually want to play a hybrid aka mystic knight, but a glasscannon ranger for example, any and all intelligence growth is something I do not want, and at that point the difference between 900 and 1800 per hit / shot is huge, because the magic side that contains the other "half" of my character's power sees no use on a ranger class. Same goes for sorcerer builds. The "Natural balance" of the game cant really work when almost every class doesn't use one or the other stat entirely. I'm usually not minmaxing, i'm maxing out vocations for their traits so I can use them on the one I actually want to play, and i'm mostly playing for the fun part. For some people however, fun means minmaxing a max strenght build for some oneshot shenanigans or minmaxing an intelligence build to play parry-only mystic knight. Simply play the game the way you enjoy it the most, and hey being oneshot by enemies while also being capable of oneshotting them is fun for some people!
There is a lot of truth in what you are saying. I just didn't want the video to become to overblown, that's why i choose the Mystic Knight. The conclusion i wanted to present is, that min/maxing is not necessary and that you don't break your character if you play the Vocation you want. Reason for that was that i talked to a couple of new players and between them where quite a lot who quit the game because they felt pressures in playing 100lvl or more of a Vocation they had no interest in. Even if you level up as a Mage/Sorcerer you could switch to a Fighter by lvl200, grab an elemental Weapon and be absolutely viable for endgame.
@@dugarrYT If it makes someone uncomfortable the way it works, I'd always recommend simply installing a mod if you're on the PC Dark Arisen version that equalizes statgains of all vocations. I dont particularly like how vocations dont have their own base stats but for now it is what we have to put up with.
@@Konin300 They really should have made the leveling mostly the same for all vocations, maybe give people that focused more on magick say maybe 10 or 20% more magick and so on. The way it is now the game continiously encourages you to try out new vocations, punishes you for not leveling as the vocation you want your playstyle based on, and then kind of makes it redundant again once you begin to get access to bbi lvl 2/3 weapons specialised for your playstyle. The system makes sense, but it can really kill the fun of leveling up sometimes especially for new players who don't understand if they did something wrong or not. It also really makes leveling to 200 feel like a pointless pursuit when you know your stats are already gimped and it hardly matters anymore.
Here's where your logic falls apart and the whole min maxing approach actually makes sense, to the point of actually making your character unplayable if done wrong. What you showed was basically the same issue people have when choosing a pure STR weapon over an enchanted weapon, you feel like enchanted weapons should do more damage considering you can equip both MAG and STR boosting augments....but in reality the pure STR weapon does just as much if not MORE overall damage compared to it, especially when using a pure STR build and all STR boosting augments. Your example was also not optimized, the damage from melee goes up and magick goes down and vice a versa is true.....BUT for MK most of their skills don't even take Base STR into account for the calculation. So essentially if you wanna play a proper MK while using proper MK skills which give FAR more dps than their melee skills then you are much better off using a pure Magick build. By not relying on mediocre melee/STR skills you won't gimp yourself and will actually do way more damage in the long run. A pure STR build will make the skills exclusive to MK MUCH weaker because the now maxed out base STR won't even be counted for dmg calcs but what will be counted i.e. your base MAG is the lowest so overall you'll do significantly less damage in the long run compared to a pure MAG build. The inverse is true for any and all STR based vocations, the ones which have no magick based skills at all. If you use a pure MAG build and play Strider/Ranger/Warrior etc guess what? Your base MAG will NEVER be taken into account with any of their skills even when using an Enchanted weapon. So now you've effectively gimped yourself out of playing a STR based vocation because you're STR is the lowest possible due to maxing MAG. The only class that truly benefits from a mixed build is the Magick Archer because they can equip Daggers for pure STR based skills (Immolation is OP) and also Magick Bow for purely magick based skills. They can attack effeciently from either side of the spectrum and it's recommended too because while they are capable of pulling off both pure STR and MAG builds with the skills at their disposal they lose a lot of variety when they cannot use either Daggers or M.Bows for anything other than support. That's the basic reason why min/maxing (at least in DDDA) WORKS! The specific vocations and their skills get affected and your damage is increased or decreased dramatically.
I never said it doesn't work, i stated that you will never end up with an unplayable character. Even with a pure str build i could play a sorcerer and push my magick with gear and consumables. It might not be optimal, but it is still playable and you can beat the game with it. A lot of min/maxer complain the game would become to easy, that is because the game is not build around a min/max approach.
@@dugarrYT This what people need. It's annoying that many want to use meta cause it's meta. People need stop looking at numbers, when they don't actually matter
The problem with the game is "BBI" that it's rely on gear instead of player skill. One of the most annoying and laughable thing is to watch every other class that can't roll jump like an ass to avoid getting hit by enemies.
The balancing between the main game and BBI is really bad, i can agree on that. I try to solve it by not using BBI gear in the main game. At least i don't onehit everything that way.
For my take on this one is, are you gonna fight Death/daimon with hybrid stats or go full strength and use blast arrow and kill him one go not making the fight go over a minute or more potentially killing you if you are in hard mode, yes you will be having a hard time killing monster which you can only kill with magic but it doesn't matter because there are pawn that you can hire. less time killing daimon/death more time farming endgame equipment. Easier finishing the game to make a new game plus doing it all over again and altering your choices ingame see different outcome on cutscene
for me personally. i don’t like the grind. so going balance and fill the gaps with equipment and augments gives me a character that can be indefinitely used over NG+ without thinking that the spec i have doesn’t fit what i want to play right now.
I myself don't really care about min-maxing, i simply go with the class i wanna play more and change before Level 200 when i want other augments/simply having fun. But on my PS4 run, i leveled mostly Sorcerer to play as a Magic Archer, my favorite vocation. With it i have 2.900ish Magic with Blackwing Bow goldforged, and that seems to enough for BBI entirely >D It's a obliterating machine, hahaha While in my second save, my arisen is a ebony gurl rhat's a main Assassin,.so i focus more on that. Currently on post-game with Clear Skies glich working guys =Dv Btw in case wanna add me, my PSNs are: rapha_the_kid and rapha_the_kid8, the second is lately more active
i tried minmaxinf for MA one, but lvl as a Sorcerer (who i didn't want to play at the time) became a chore. and MA with Magick Rebalencer is already more then strong enough. I don't play on PSN anymore, but if you are looking for someone to rent your Pawn, you can make an entry on our discord.
@@dugarrYT ya they are. I mostly play max strength assasin. I did do a mage run1-200 an it was brutal lol. My max damage with max strength assasin was 3.6M
I know what you mean. My pure Blue run nearly broke me. But now that i know better i ignore such things. 3.6m is a lot! Against what Monster did you get that?
@@dugarrYT I have no idea. I'm part of a dd group on Facebook an someone said they did this amount of damage so I looked through my accounts an one said 3.6m . Before that I never paid any attention to the damage output
The only min max strategy I could recommend as a newbie is going 200 levels Strider for Max stamina especially since it only has one save file and if you want to switch from a magic build to a physical build you might as well start over instead of NG+
@@dugarrYT here's hoping Dragon's Dogma 2 has save slots and better Pawn AI. if you want your Pawn to be the healer then you have to be a Healer first. I want my Pawn to have a different role for better party composition
@@dugarrYT I continuously have to use them as decoys because all they do is stand around and do nothing, not attacking, not defending, not healing, nothing. the more pawns I have the less likely the enemy is to Target me I want to play something other than the Mage healer but I have to keep babysitting my pawns Also, the command wheel should be changed from go/help/come/help to go/help/come/stay. Where stay stops all pawn movement and/or action until you give them a different command or you get a certain distance
I don't even bother with min/maxing and i genuinely do not like the leveling system in dragon's dogma and hope it does not return for the sequel.. If I want to play a warrior but to make it as good as possible have to basically play 210 lvls as an assassin I might as well just play as an assassin.. With the way I play these games I'm level 40 or 50 before I'm even halfway into the the story, by 60 70 and 80 I've basically explore the entire possible map(aside from quest locked regions)
Disagree entirely. I can wreck absolutely everything with a Magick Archer thanks to all the BBI stuff I've got including the Blackwing Bow, Helmbarte Daggers (I've yet to get the Framae Blades), most of the carrion armour etc. As long as you know the weaknesses of your enemies you're good to go even on BBI. The only enemy that can potentially screw over a Magick Archer is the Metal Gollum due to it's discs being practically immune to magic (an MA's arrows/bolts are all magic-based) and usually situated in awkward, hard-to-reach places that are often high up for daggers to reach. Luckily there's not all that many of them in the game and you can just run away from them anyway.
More important than any Vocation level routine, is your Gear!
Because with good gear, and augments, even someone who levelled with minimum strength can still do high melee damage. And I'd almost argue, in most cases, Magick is even more forgiving because of elemental weaknesses.
Exactly!
@@dugarrYT I keep seeing people say Magick Archer especially needs to min/max and it's like.
MA is the only class in the game that can buff its magick attack 4 times without periapts. I really don't think that's necessary.
Mystic Knight's Great Cannon not doing much even when you enchant your weapon? Then carry perma-enchanted weapons and you'll see that damage skyrocket when goldforged.
yes, especially those two hybrids don‘t „need“ min/maxing. they bring all tools you can dream off. Magick Archer in BBI is easy mode, so to speak.
This is what I keep telling people about this game. Nihil made a similar video and even after he proved that min/max wasn’t helpful, there were still people saying “you have to min/max if you play on hardcore.” Your doing good work by spreading awareness of this problem.
People who actually want to just play as sorcerer: *laughs maniacally in Maelstrom and max Magick*
lucky people ;-)
That, and those who want to play as assassins..
@@GReynassasin is my favorite because it can handle everything.
Ascalion with tusk toss for wisps and ghosts.
Heaven's keys with masterful kill for enchanted armors.
Bows for ranged, sword for melee, dagger for countering enemies that are more bs than fun to fight. Dire gouge for climbing damage...
Love that class.
Solid video, I've seen another where a MA was taken through 190 levels as an MA, Sorcerer and Ranger and the difference in kill times for that BBI room with the Eliminators and Ogres was about 30 seconds either side. When compared to the base MA, the Sorcerer ran out of stamina faster so had to wait more to do their damage, the Ranger didn't do as much damage but was able to keep doing it for longer because of their crazy stamina. It really does not matter that much and I'm glad the message is getting put out more that people should just play how they want to.
that is a good example and shows how the game keeps a balance.
I'm guessing nihil's min/max myth video
I always just maxed out all the vocations and played what sounded fun on a given day. My characters always ended up perfectly fine, even if I did play a lot as Warrior or Fighter and swapped to Sorcerer. I usually like well-rounded characters anyway... as opposed to being pigeon-holed into a single built.
Me too, if there really are some deficits, then there is surely an item that can compensate that.
Well you "can" min max a perfect all rounder
@@datonedumbasian4919 Sure, you COULD but it's definitely not necessary to enjoy the game. I can see how if you build a character a certain way, they will be very powerful. My point is: you end up extremely powerful rgardless of what you play as. I think if someone were to level 1 - 10 Mage then 11 - 200 Sorcerer for an extremely powerful casting build, they would get bored of casting all the time and want to play the other vocations in the game.
@@WizardinBlack3 i can see it, although i like to min max not because of the stats but because it gives me a goal and plan to follow instead yoloing it and taking longer to progress in turn for more exploration around the game, i like making many one roll characters because of such, although,while rarely, i do like to just not think and just play for gear, not worrying about what level i am for the best stats sometimes, so its not like i dont like the idea but i like to have a plan and goal for me to play.
@@datonedumbasian4919 I hadn't thought about it that way before. In most RPGs, you cannot change your class at will and I think that feature being in Dragon's Dogma is something that makes the game so unique. I like to take aadvantage of it as much as possible. Plus, fighting certain enemies is rough as certain vocations (Warrior struggles ALOT in Bitterblack unless you get really good with a particular skill set). I can see how if you built a character specifially for one class it can be fun though
I've personally never done any builds and just leveled up as the class I wanted to play as then did the others to get all the augments after lvl 200 but Isn't stamina the only stat that REALLY makes a difference when it comes to what class you level as
Stamina definitely has an impact, but not as much as you might think. There are items and augments that can raise your max stamina or reduce the consumption of it. You could say that the way you level up determines the usefulness of other aspects of the game.
Liquid Vim is your best friend, mate 8D
never leave the house without it!!!
The fact that min/maxers are the same people who most often claims a game is "too easy", is something that should be said out loud more often.
that's why i choose it as my opening sentence ;-)
Min/max makes any game easier in general. So it kind of checks out.
they want something that's still challenging, even at peak optimization. is that so unreasonable?
@@nowherefool5869if at maximum optimised build a boss is hard thqt make the normal players that do whatever have a bad time playing the game think about it
@@nowherefool5869not necessarily dark souls difficulty
My optimail build: get 3-4k stamina. Everything else doesn't matter imo, you can make a full sorc and with gear+augments you can still play melee classes and break defense thresholds. Gobble up some peripaths and you're golden. The real damage comes from choosing the right weapons/spells/tools for a fight according to enemy vulnerabilities, knowing your class+enemy patterns. If you take pawns, have at least one compliment your choices.
everything you just said, a 100% true!
My build is a lil bad it has 3719 hp and 4487 stamina at max lv
nothing bad there!
There is no need to minmax but my goodness I hope that Dragons dogma 2 is going to feature more vocations and multiple save slots. I cannot stress how much I got frustrated over the idea of wanting to try and do a different build but needing to basically restart the game to do it due to how stat distribution works. Also this game is not easy even if you are a minmaxer, its just that throwblasts can solo the game on their own because of how staggering and Ai work. There is so many guides to cheesing bitterblack it just makes me wonder if anyone plays the game normally anymore.
i run a balanced build for around 200 runs now. switch vocations to my mood und it works fine. don't have the urge to start from 0 again just for stats.
@@dugarrYT Fair enough but my build isn't so balanced and gear wise rng isn't being nice to them from Bitterblack XD.
i see. one of the reasons i don't want to start over is that i got every item in the game now and i don't want to collect them all over again 🤣
@@dugarrYT Very true that XD
Well heres the "But sometimes" Ive always thought the more min/max builds are more for allowing a greater variety of builds and gear loadouts while still being able to hit defense break points. Most people tend to dislike the manufactured clone or cookie cutter effect of everyone equiping the same best in slot items.
The best in slot mentality is something that changes if you don't care for min/maxing. If you just play and end up with a melee oriented character and than decide to play a magick vocation, chances are that you have different best in slot items. which in case makes the game more interesting. at least for me it does.
I started playing a month ago. This game is so fun and the community is amazing!
Yes it is, i found a lot of friends in this community. It's very friendly and supportive!
@@dugarrYT Esp content creators like you, buddy! Great help esp for noobs like me haha
thx. i‘m honored!
So the the whole mix/maxing thing started befor the Dragons Dogma Dark Arisen release meaning befor the much stronger BBI gear where a couple hundred extra strength is just a drip in the ocean where as raising your defenses has more value now
honestly i don't know when it started, i never deemed it worth it.
Its a completely balanced game
Blast arrow and throwblast: allow us to introduce ourselves
dynamic entry! xD
I started out minmaxxing my current character for magic attack but eventually I just decided to play physical vocations with it bc I got bored of only playing magic classes, and guess what, I play just fine with warrior even tho I started out minmaxxing for sorcerer. It's indeed pointless.
exactly!
I got that quick, but the only stats you cant raise from weapons or armors is your stamina and HP (maybe from rings), to me is fun to raise as a kinght 130 lvls + a mix from everyone to make a tanky character. I noticed that your required stats come from weapons/armors + vocations skills which grant you a % of magic or atk
there are a couple of items to raise health an stamina. rings and capes are the most common. and of course there are consumables and augments.
@@dugarrYT yeah, in steam someone left a strider lvl 5 with best weapons max forged + those rings with 500HP each, so that pawn can help you very well even agains grigory
yeah, those master rings are really good if you get them on a low pawn.
I may switch from assassin to strider simply because I can’t get any assassin bands “rings” to drop. I’m gonna miss using the force hatchet tho 😢
but you will love brain splitter ;-)
This is true for the main game, however hard mode bbi is a different story. Many enemies in hard mode bbi have high dmg thresholds you need to meet to even get to the hp and if you dont optimize at least a bit for the vocations you intend to play you will find yourself doing from little to no dmg even with some late game gear forcing you to carry around consumables that occupy precious space.
I don't deny that planning out your character makes it easier, my experience however tells me that gear+augments can outweight stats pretty good. So you will never come to a point where your Arisen is unplayable.
that defense bit is absolutely dumb lol. or enemies i mean. the balance in this game is all over the place. you must be this tall to ride this ride mentality. if they wanted bullet sponge enemies they shoulda increased hp not defense.
@@colonelradec5956 The main problem with the balance in this game is that Gransys has a different balancing than BBI. As soon as you get BBI Gear you break the main game. To make Enemies harder through defense is, in my opinion, the better way. If you just pump up the health you get a sponge whatever you do, but if you just raise the defense against melee, than it is a sponge for melee only and you can make quick process with elemental damage. So you are rewarded for adapting to the enemy.
@@dugarrYT no your right on the defense bit but i dont think i explained what i meant very well.
what i mean more is having defense so high you cant damage something. ive never fully beat everything in game but in the main game it seemed like there was like enemies you were flat out restricted from fighting until you had better gear.
even in the basic overworld. was annoying as hell to fight and kill things then walk 30 feet and do literally 0 damage. ok literally 1 damage.
i have yet to beat the dlc so i have no idea how bad that gets at the bottom.
i just felt super restricted to staying on the main mission path most of the main game.
either i overpowered enemies or i couldn't hurt them at all. like even enemies that had no specific weakness to magic. like humans.
i dont know based on what im hearing even in the dlc you wont get to a point where your doing 0 damage if you go in at the appropriate level.
hope thats true. i just know doing 0 damage to an enemy sucks ass 😂
@@dugarrYT like i felt like i could not proceed unless i got lucky and found a better weapon at some stages of the game. then id get stronger and the entire game would be a joke.
i wish there wasnt such a big gap between enemies defense wise is all i mean.
I usually level ranger to level 100, but only because I like having tons of stamina to use my skills
I do ranger and strider a lot, mainly because i like the way they play, but the extra stamina is a nice bonus.
I actually made my own mish-mash of mods to balance out stat leveling in this game across all vocations back in the day. IIRC, with it, playing any class on any combination would end up to a good balance of stats by max level so there was no worry in losing out points. As for when I wanted to min-max, I left out the Warrior and the Sorcerer to gain extra points on the offense stat either one leaned on so they would stick out a little bit by max level when used to min-max. That way, I could play the game on any class I wanted without worrying for stat growths. And by the time I settle down on the class I actually wanted to be, my stats would be just perfect for it until max level. Sure, it might take away the "fun" in min-maxing stats (for people who enjoy that kind of math in their game), but to me experiencing all the game has to offer without worrying that I have to respec or do a new save/build is way more enjoyable.
I do wish that on the next game they would do away with this kind of system, and instead put stats on a plateau, while allowing players to learn class-specific/class-only passive stat bonuses that make each class shine on their own field. Like, say you have a melee class compared to a mage class. Both would have equal max stat growths by the end, but in each class the player is able to learn and pickup stat-boosting passive perks that will only work when that class is being used. This would give players the freedom to actually build classes that are good on what they do by making effort in playing the game and then spending gained points, without having to rely on being bound to a specific class they do not want across the average length of the game.
that is an interesting view on it. i would like to see something like that in a sequel. while we can do a lot with mods on pc we habe no chance on consoles.
@@dugarrYT Yeah, that's pretty much the only issue with consoles. No modding support. It's not like the idea I just said is anything special too. Imagine unlocking passives via character level, and then getting the ability to learn "Strength Up I/II/III" as Fighter which boosts the physical damage stat only when you have the class on. We can have two fighters (one of which came from being purely a mage) and they would both dish out the same damage based purely on stats alone. What would "max" out the pure-fighter would be the fact that that one has already picked up all three passive perks since it has spent more time (and thus gained more points) on using that vocation as a main. If we switch both's setups and the pure-fighter then tries out being mage, it would have the same stat-only magic damage as the pure-mage (same level). And same physical damage (since you lose the passive perk effect), but the pure mage would have already learned "Magic Attack Up I/II/III" since it spent its class points on that while playing so it would have the "maxed" magic damage when taken into account. Long story short, the perk would only take effect and matter when you are actually playing that class, while stat-wise everybody is equal level-wise. At the same time, the perk builds would differentiate each player from the other of the same class, as each person builds the skills and perks they want.
I like that. Its like the Skill/Augment System we have know for weapons. Like the double jump for daggerst. you get it by lvling a yellow vocation bit lose it by switching to another.
I’m just curious as to why you felt like your stats were so low that you had to start over when gear and augments make up the bulk of your damage anyway. I main a 10-200 MK on hardcore and I solo BBL with him. I feel like I often do too much damage to most enemies, and MK has some of the lowest offensive stat growth in the base game. I’m just trying to figure out why base stats seem to be such a contentious issue in this game when they don’t really effect gameplay that much.
@@kolbywilliams7234 i guess the biggest problem is to differentiate between "helpful" and "necessary"
While I agree with your point about minmaxing not being worth it overall, the fact that you're playing mystic knight (one of the most balanced classes in the games in terms of magical vs physical damage output) probably has a big impact on your damage being pretty equal minmaxed or not. Playing as a ranger/sorcerer/warrior etc that's been minmaxed will definitely have you doing a good amount of damage more than you would in a nonminmaxed build due to the damage calculations in this game. Ultimately though, I think you're right in that it's not worth missing out on the cool and unique play styles on offer just to increase damage by 20% or so.
Fully agree with what you said. I choose the Mystic Knight in this Video just because of that. It demonstrates how the Game rebalances itself. I could have made two clips from different Vocations and compare them, but i think that would unnecessarily bloat the Video and waste the time of my audience.
Nihil has a video of a Magick Archer killing everything in a BBI room as a Full Mag build, Full Stam build or as a 10-200 MA build. The difference is very small, 1 minute of difference between the slowest and fastest (average of 6 minutes). Full Mag has more raw power, full Stam can spam more and MA build is more balanced. Overall everything works out, yeah if you want the absolute best of a stat you can min-max but if you don't you won't be gimped, you'll just have another stat higher that's gonna prop your character up some other way.
@@maephial699 100%
@@maephial699 Nihils video also has him playing sorc using a fair bit of daggers and ranger using a lot of bow. which both would have far faster times if played to the advantage of the build instead of just trying to play the same way in all 3 attempts, and also has using the full bbw3 gold rarified which is really what brings the true balance to the table, as without it you need bbw2 dragon forged to even break daimons defense without talismans. as a pure MA. All builds can do everything, especially true if you get gold rarified BBW3. before you have them though talismans may be required.
@@maephial699 I want Stam and some magic but I don't feel like playing strider, maybe assassin
ive remember the first time that ive played, i got from assassin, to mystick knight to sorcer thant to magick archer, man i was so porwerfull never got that build after
I managed to get a perfectly balanced build of 570 on everything by accident; could never repeat it xD
Most optimal build is Fighter 10/Warrior 90/MK 100 for > 5k hp baby.
sounds like a good tank.
Best guide EVER!!! Thank you for save my fun. Danke!
enjoy the game ;-)
So if I play a sorcerer for a hundred levels can I then switch to warrior without struggling too much?
yes, but you will need some good gear or use crafting to compensate. with dragonforged and above gear you won't really feel a difference.
Min-maxing doesn't matter all that much. Still gonna do it anyway cause big number.
if you do it for fun go for it. what i don’t like is if someone tells a new player it would be nessesary.
@@dugarrYTwhat’s min max
to level a specific vocation to get there stats. for example, lvl x amount on sorerer for magick tho that your Magick Archer becomes stronger.
I started playing a few months ago because of the OP Magick Archer video, switched from Strider to that vocation at the first opportunity and ended up very frustrated with the very low damage I was doing.
Of course, I didn't look at any guides until I had enough of being the toy of bandits.
After maxing all vocations, Warrior can eat my arrows, I love Assassin.
Magick Archer takes a long time to become good. With the right gear he is the strongest BBI Vocation by far, but he is mediocre for leveling. Assassin is the most "complete" Vocation, he has something for every situation and lvls great.
So if I don’t min max magic archer will I be fine I don’t have time for all that I live at work 😢
@@ncpsurfgod6373 I work every day of the week, and it's so worth it, in addition to the absolute crazy things that each vocation can do, the general abilities that you unlock are very important.
There is one that increases the amount of weight you can carry that doesn't seem like much but after using it it is very, VERY necessary.
All vocations have something to contribute to others.
maxing out vocations is not the same as min/maxing. i recommend to max out every vocation eventually, but that can happen even after you reached max level.
I always go 10 strider 50 assassin and 60 sorcerer then go into the class i want to play as. I got my balance of magic and strength anything else can be covered by my equipment
do you start over every time you want to play something else or do you NG+?
@@dugarrYT im always hitting ng+ with those stats im practically good to go into any vocation. If I want a specific play through then I'd just play as that class the game is lenient on if you make mistakes with stat growth
once i figured min/max is a waste of time i just stopped with (the more or less balanced stats) what i got and play NG+ with different augments if i switch vocations.
@@dugarrYT same when people told me back in the day that stats mattered I showed them my Frankenstein build of 10 mag 15 assassin 15 ranger 15 fighter 15 sorcerer 15 MA and 15 MK it also didn't help their argument when my pawn was so good. (This was before I knew different vocation gave you different stat growth)
i still believe that a frequent change of vocations during leveling was planned for by the delevopers. so yeah, play what you like should be the way to go.
It's more important to focus on your end Health and Stamina than Attack and Defense. Attk and Def can easily be fixed and adjusted with gear. High stamina is very useful for pretty much all vocations besides warrior and mage.
Fighter also needs less stamina. But yes, health and stamina seem to be more important than your base stats.
I agree, this is significantly more relevant. At 200 you could have as low as 2000+ stamina or as high as 5000 stamina. For differant vocations this can be significant improvements or not.
@@merrickmiller1224 I still see it as some sort of convenient factor. For my characters with low stamina i rely heavily on liquid vim. which i don't have if i leveled for it.
Magick Archer eats stamina like it's rocket fuel
@@r.d.6290 Ranger is even worst
Nty I want max damage on my arc of deliverance. Good day sir
i respect that!
I feel like i needed this video. Thanks so much.
You are welcome, have fun enjoying the game ;-)
Hahaha wished you exist couple years ago when I start. We got nihils tho but your guide is simplefy and helpful for newbies meanwhile Nihil's guide is better for advance player. Looking into you in the future.
Thx, i specifically aim to help new players or at least show lesser known things.
I mean, min maxing is definitely a thing and matters in some games but nice to see that it really doesn't in DD.
I honestly just picked my starting vocation and just level until I get to max rank (It was a Strider because of the weight capacity Augment). Then I'll max the others, one by one, starting with the polar opposites, like Assassin and Sorcerer, than Mage and Fighter, this way I'll just end up with decent points in every stats. If I still have too many levels to go, then I'll just pick my favourite, since I'll have experience with all of them, at this point I'll absolutely have enough points to not care at all about the way I level. I'm heavily inclined towards the bow wielders in particular, Ranger and Magick Archers are weirdly fun to play, even though they just spam arrows.
i believe that is the intended way of playing. and as long as you have fun it can't be wrong ;-)
it dosnt really matter that much becuase I played MA to infinity without changing vocation which gave me only 3586 HP/3560 stamina...which isnt the most powerful build.
i use magic balancer to BOOST/Stack..and magic bow ring to 9 fold and rivet bolt.
Plus a master ring with 39 increase of stagger
I can kill alot of enemies before I enter the room with richet..lmao
But it gets old..so I'll just do melee...or cutting wind and slice silver and gold to death.
At first..yes, it was dark ans scary ( I can play without using my lamp in BBI, now)
I can shoot dragons out of the sky all day long...that's no fun after a while..So I'll scale it.
Then I bore of that...then i do a face down combat...
It'll charge me...I'll charge it...One of us is going to die.
The game's A.I. ADJUST.
Yesterday, the dark bishop/Curse dragon...The Bishop spawned inside the stairways...and he didnt want to come out and play...becuase I'll kill him easy.
I can kill that dragon with ONE shot.
DEATH spawns in...while the 2 dragons are still alive ( sparyard) spaming magic.
It's on HARD..it's not easy....but it's FUN and a challenge..
The worst that can happen is...I die and REPLAY.lol
The combat is different everytime I play ( whatever enemies)...becuase
I fight them different...I dont always do what most efficient or practical.
I'll PLAY the game just for FUN..depending what mood I'm in.
i do alot of goofy stuff..I'll throw an undead at a skeletonlord just for kicks.
thats the reason i switch vocations a lot. once you found an „easy“ way to kill everything, it gets boring pretty fast.
@@dugarrYT I played MK with 4800/3800 in the original version. i was God...I switch over to MK in Dark Arisen with 3586/3560 build..Gold Forge everything, best weapons/armor and Max skills...I get arss Kick in BBI.lmao I have to combat totally different.
Plus I play with Pawns. Training my Pawn's A.I. is totally cool. To watch her get better at combating different enemies..and change her vocations..She sucks at first with a different vocation. Even with max skills....because she simply didnt have enough combat with various enemies. I basically change my ROLE. Im her body guard ..so she can gain combat experience. (not so much points) i dont kill everything
right away..or let my pawns do most of the combat.
There's a lot of different ways to play/experience this game. That's why I still play it.
Definitely. Still hope for a second Game so 😉
@@dugarrYT Yes..definitely. I barely found out about the game 2 months ago. It'll be one those games that I will replay throughout the years.
I purchased another xbox360 E just to make sure..I'll have spare parts to run the game 10 years from now.lol
nice. got a spare xb360 myself for the same reason. have to many games on it i would hate to lose.
Great work. I can feel the Aufwand xd
comes with the territory. but as long as it’s fun it’s not work 😁
I needed this video, thank you. The majority of Google searches I did talked about Min/Max making your character insanely powerful. In reality I want a melee that can use 2H or DW. After a couple of hours searching and avoiding MK or Magic Archer "iS tHe BeSt!" I was able to settle on Strider > Warrior for Traits > Assassin to max.
I just like being in the fray and bonking.
Thank you, again, Dugarr!
your welcome, my videos are to help after all 😉
I hate and also like min-maxing, because playing as glass-cannon is fun for me. Altho hitting too big numbers on enemies may end up boring; regardless what build you pick - you will eventually adjust your gameplay to stats you have anyway.
More Tanky = means you will play more reckless, wanting to spam attacks to keep up with dmg.
Less Tanky = means you will play more strategic, learning enemy patterns and weaknesses.
Less Stamina = Less reckless spamming attacks (since missing opponent will be more painful) + you won't just holding block, but instead wish to Perfect Block.
that sum’s it up pretty nice!
@@dugarrYT ty haha ☺ Good & useful video bro anyway.
@@Seichensi thx :-D
I dont use bitterblack weapons in the game, cause they are Breaking the Games Balance. Its going Too easy. So im using just Max 1100 attack Power, to Balance the game in Mailand and bitterblack. Im using simple weapons to keep the Challenge and Fun
I do the same recently. The more i learn about the game and it’s mechanics the more i try different thinks.
i'm going cassardis he-man clothing, leather straps, budget greaves and a tight cinquedea with ancient circlet, almost max build for defense and HP. It takes more time to kill but if i'm sloppy I die on harder monsters. On BBI I have to be really careful and prepare well against deadlier enemies with items and periaps - or else it's impossible.
i would love to see a picture of your Arisen 👍🏻
I've been trying to tell this exact same thing on Reddit and other platforms for YEARS....I'll just tell them to check this video you got the like right from the title 😂😂😂 very well made video to fix such a huge misinterpretation of this game
there are still people deaf to it ;-)
Ok well this actually proved to me that min-maxing is very important. Looking at Magick damage explicitly 634 is a 65% increase over the attack build. And a 48% increase over the balanced... the game isn't hard so do whatever you want though min-maxing is a huge benefit.
It definitely gives you more damage, but at a cost. If you consider how resistance work a purely raw str build is less beneficial as a balance build.
I max leveled all vocations except mage and sorcerer and I want to main as a mystic knight, currently am level 82-83 and defeated Grigori yesterday. At first I was thinking I lack MATK and I have to play as a mage and sorcerer to increase it but you’re saying it doesn’t won’t affect my stats?(except the augments. I still feel there are specific augments in sorcerer and mage that are reliable my personal build)
you should (at some point) max all vocations to get all augments. maxing sorcerer just to get Acuity and Articulacy makes a big difference. Stat wise it doesn’t really matter if you lvl as sorcerer or not.
@@dugarrYT okay then I’ll make that a goal now. Appreciate it!!
Thank you sir. I’ve been stressing over this min max crap. I believe I can play the game and enjoy it after watching this.
great to hear. have fun 👍🏻
what is the music playing?
Emergency On Level 3 - Jeremy Korpas
The only thing that i'm concerning on is that i love archer mage but i have only 382 base magic. I wonder if it's good or bad (probably very bad)
It‘s not optimal, but not a problem either. You base stats are only a small percentage of your damage once you get good gear and augments.
@@dugarrYT i managed to found daimon's magic bow, with it i have almost 2500 magic
That is more than enough to beat everything in the game, anything above that just makes it faster.
I download this game few days ago. Still stuck at character creation. I hve some question about this gme. Can anyone help me?
what questions? got a video about character creation if it’s that. look at „size matters“
@@dugarrYT 1st = if u max out ur stamina, does stamina regeneration still fast for smallest character?
2nd= how to solve the problem of smallest character who bcome overweight easily. The world is pretty big, so many item to pick up. I love fast regeneration but overweight system is bugged me out. If the answer is transferring item to pawn, can i take it back from him directly? Coz i dont see options to take item from pawn
3rd= i want to make strider pawn who focus solely on physical attack. Should i go to fighter or warrior or ranger road to lvl up? I mean starting lvl 10-100. My gut said to warrior road but stamina deduction. Ouch. Does pawn AI can run out stamina n bcome tired? Coz i hve not seeing yet in video so far. If so then i suppose not to worry or focus much on pawn stamina. Can u recommend one for me? I dont feel want to change vocation much for my pawn until he/she max out his/her lvl.
I start this game in hard mode right away coz i heard this game bcome super easy once u get decent gear especially when all enemies/boss doesn't increase their HP at all. But hard mode give them triple resistance which is interesting but still doable for beginners like me.
you are overthinking. stamina regeneration and stamina pool don't have anything in common, so max out stamina still regens faster on small characters. items can be transferred between you and your pawn at any time. it does not matter in which way you or your pawn level up. even still if you want to min-/max, you wont do it on your first playthrough, if you try chances are that you wont have fun. min-/maxing while still learning how the game works is a chore. pawns can run out of stamina, but you can just run up to them an "give" some to them.
@@dugarrYT thank u for the answer. I know its my first playthrough. But i do watch a lot dragon drogma video including ur channel b4 start playing to learn game mechanic. Its just somehow i dont find the answer I'm looking for. But at least now thanks to u it give me a bit confident to start a smaller character.
@@alexmercer8852 that's great, have fun with the game! 😀
True Min/max in dragons dogma is just maxing every vocation rank for all of the over powered augments to turn every character into a god (unless you’re gonna do the 1 shot warrior build, that’s THE only time maxing a stat (strength) makes sense)
true!
This is great news as I've heard I should level Sorcerer for a bit to play Magick Archer, but... I'm sorry... I hate it.
No hate on those that enjoy Sorcerer, but playing on that class is more frustrating than anything else.
just play the way you like, especially for Magick Archer. Magick Rebalancer makes him OP regardless of everything else.
"You will never break your character into something unplayable" me: but- i leveled up 20 strider then another 20 for fighter then another 20 for mage another 20 for ranger another 20 for warrior another 20 for sorcerer another 20 for magic archer another 20 for mystic night another 20 and then 40 for strider-
in which case you had a lot of fun with all those different playstyles, i gratulate you! :-D
Well it is pretty fun i play with every vocation cause staying one doesnt change much i got good hp and stamina
The way id lv up fast is get a bunch of bomb arrows go to death and then hide in one spot then he will teleport to me and i shoot him and after a while he will fall down into the void and insta die
me to. i switch vocations often and have fun with all of them.
Im fighting a drake rn with the holy sword from the ur dragon killed it 13 times
The hybrid build as recommended by Infinite Cringe allows you to play any class effectively with Strength and Magic both at 600+. Funnily enough, when testing the build as MK with dinput8.dll, it is actually slightly faster at killing Daimon than the same character with 700+ and 800+ magic, both with and without Periapts, using only blessed riposte and holy enchanted great cannons. The more important factors are weapons and periapts instead of stats.
have to agree on that 👍🏻 i play hybrid myself, because i switch vocations to often.
I just started a balanced min max to be average on every stat but that's only because Strider is my favorite class only second to Warrior. But Warrior is slow as heck to lvl up so balanced build sounds reasonable to me
Edit: having more stamina and balanced stats is pretty much the wah to go really, you can use your abilities more often without much worries about getting too low on stamina
I do balanced myself, because i switch vocations to often mid session and dont want to start over.
@@dugarrYT I know right? Sounds like a real pain to play 200 lvl all over again just to make a " optimal " build.
exactly!
I'm going fighter assassin for the insane stamina and also BBI defense thresholds are a huge bitch if you don't have good gear. I had to run around using mighty bend on daemon 2nd form for like 10 minutes because it was the only move i had that barely broke his 2500 def threshold. If I leveled haphazardly I would've had to wipe.
to be honest, i never had any issues with the damage theshold. fights take a bit longer, but coming from Monster Hunter that is not really an issue for me and as soon as i got Lv2 weapons all got better.
like i know you are testing it yourself but I feel like I do less damage going full strength when I use enchanted weapons is what I was trying to say which is far more useful than straight up physical damage thanks to how many enemies are resistant to physical and magical. I feel like relying on strength or magic alone is suffering it only makes the game harder.
agree. it doesn't seem to me as intended to go full on one direction.
I’ve min maxed before with BBi gear but I won’t do it again. Difference in damage was less than 400 but the weapon killed in the same amount of time lol. If I play sorcery, I do 10 levels of warrior ranger and mystic knight. After that I play sorcerer. Who the F wants to play 200 levels of a class they don’t like just to be the “perfect” build.
that's the thing, even so min/max does more damage, in killtime it's just seconds.
@@dugarrYT exactly. It just isn’t worth it. Not if you play 200 levels warrior or fighter then jump to mage yea you’ll see a major difference. Other than that I tell people just rank 9 all vocations. That will give you enough extra stats to make your experience better
I'm confused
You get twice as much melee damage with maxed strength vs maxed magic
You get almost twice as much damage with maxed magic vs maxed strength
And you conclude min/max does not matter?
i conclude min/max is not necessary! big difference!
Extremely useful video, love your content! I see that you respond every comment and that's amazing.
thx. i try to answer everyone. sadly i miss some from time to time.
I'll do it anyway. I got a min max addiction in every game. I can't stop it!
there are some urges you can nothing do about it ;-)
Just started playing this gem! Like commented and subscribed 👍
thx and have fun 👍🏻
The "most optimal" build is spending at least 40 levels before 100 in Ranger for HUGE stamina, then just play whatever you want to play.
40 lvls is a lot if you don't enjoy playing a ranged class. so if you a pure melee class player i wouldn't do that and instead opt for liquid vim.
I min max but only because I know exactly what I want out of my characters. I often like to experiment with a variety of weapon types. Weaker weapons have great effects but can be very unviable and weak in certain battles if I didn’t min max strength for my arisen or magic for my sorcerer. I like the weapons that give debilitating effects because they’re a lot of fun but the damage can often be pitiful without the right investment. But also max strength framme daggers brain splitter go brrrr
that's actually a reason i can get behind ;-)
Tried Mystic Knight and wasn't all that impressed with it. My intent was to go 10 strider/90 Sorcerer/100 Mystic Knight (yes I know the stats technically suck for MK after level 100 compared to others, but I wanted to try it out)
I didn't even get to 60 as a Sorcerer. I hate the slow cast times that guarantee you'll never hit a damned thing, and waste your entire stamina bar trying. I stuck it out to rank MK to vocation 8: Did get the supposed "best" moves, or the most useful ones as far as I'd thought (heal, on strike and block seem like they should be good - but I suck at blocking) The magic cannon wasn't all that great [I assume it's probably a little more impressive at max level] so in the end I went back to my favored assassin.
Now I'm trying 10 Fighter/90 Assassin/100 Fighter (fighter gets the same Def points as Assassin gets Strength, for the best defense past 100 - and gets 15 HP per level up past 100) I do prefer the bow access that Assassin gets [As much as I HATE that the best moves in the game are essentially magical machine guns = I'm hoping they can be more creative and more balanced in favor of the player in DD2] I also like the invisibility and the masterful kill. (It doesn't always work; but it works a lot of the time) * I do wish that invisibility wasn't such a stamina tax though. Liquid Vim for the win! (It's such a pain in the ass to make though...) I'd go Max Assassin except for the point below. I'd rather not be dead in one hit from something 10 times my size. It's still probably going to be mostly dead; but I can handle "mostly."
Funny point: I have the Dragon's Ire bow fully maxed at 3 = am not strong enough to go for the drake near the shadowfort yet, and even though it says I do anywhere from 1400-1600 damage - I use bloodlust & Autonomy; I still take 2 shots with fivefold flurry to kill a freaking regular Saurian. Nevermind the other variants. [I put it to Hard Mode to get exp a little faster - it was taking forever to get anywhere with the other builds I made on easy] * I'm hoping to be able to one shot the buggers reliably with basic attacks sometime before I hit Level 200. Though as far as I can see it'll probably be level 199 lol. Problem with the saurian specific daggers is you still have to dance around them trying to get to the tail. Which as far as I've played more often than not, they move just as soon as I manage it. : /
I would have pointed out that with the physical build to the magical: you lose about half of your much more impressive chunk of physical damage, to get double the not so impressive magical damage... but again; my bow issue proves it doesn't really seem to matter what damage it says you do. I'm not sure the game always calculates it correctly anyway.
first time the MK didn't work for me either. i tried him years later another time and somehow it clicked. since then it is my favorite vocation
So, if you like all vocations and don't mind playing them to ultra-specialize, go for it, but even if you level ""suboptimally"" your character will never be really crippled in any way.
exactly
Can vouche for this, been swapping between mk, strider, warrior, fighter, mage and sorcerer for like 100 lvls and I'm not feeling any really big power drops
and it is less stressful to just play what you want 😉
This mainly applies to new players and people that will just play through the game once and call it a day. Most min/maxers are people that have a lot of experience with the game and already know what classes they like and dislike so they decide to make their build as effective as possible even if it’s just to hit for like 500 more damage. There’s nothing wrong with mix/maxing and it’s not nearly as annoying or inconvenient as you made it out to be especially since you can get to level 200 in less than a day by farming death.
min/max isn't wrong at all if you have fun with it. what's wrong is telling people they have to do it. for someone who doesn't know the game it is such a drag that many quit the game.
Yes! This game is more about core skill and equipment/augments for more damage. Min/Max only makes things quicker.
The community talking so much about min/max actually scares some people away while you can just enjoy the game and then learn about this deep stuff to try being more powerful for the heck of it if you like this kind of stuff.
I don't care about it. I just play the class I want and that's it. It works wonders
Couldn't have sad it better, that is exactly what i think!
I'm a bit stupid or I don't know, when I saw those videos of min max I thought to my self " I can do just as well without a good min/max " and as such I did my first run without min/max. I'm stuck just because I can't find lv3 cursed items 🤣
How far are you in BBI? Lv3 item are only available after you beat it for the first time.
@@dugarrYT I had beaten it once and now I trying to find anything, I got the locations of good and average chests and yet my luck is horrible. I got like 100 liftstones and lots of trash
@@defalttheloner i've had a lot of luck in the forgotten city right before daimen, all other locations i pretty much ignore.
Melee doing 1800 vs melee doing 900 seems a pretty big deal to me. Funny enough this video just proved itself wrong.
to come to that conclusion you totally ignore the hybrid nature of the mystic knight. this video shows that you don't have to lvl as a sorcerer to do dmg as a mystic knight, because it balances itself.
Isn't this video for every class not just hybrid? If I was magic DPS and the entire game and watch to swap role to physical at the end I am screw. But I do appreciate the numbers though. At the very most it is only 2x difference and not 5x from min to max.
i choose hybrid because it is the most obvious. if you do a total switch from magick to physical you are right, the difference is noticable. you can still counter it with items though. your gear has a way bigger impact as how you lvl up.
Min-Maxing isn’t even something I enjoy. There’s a reason why higher difficulty oblivion scares me as unless you use summons or abuse followers, you kinda have to min max. But here? It doesn’t feel nessicary. Sure, melting bosses in like 2-3 seconds is nice and all but like… have fun playing as builds that don’t fit your playstyle just to achieve it.
Glad to have found this video, as it makes me feels more comfortable with doing basically whatever build strikes my fancy at the moment without having to worry about what levels up. This, combined with your size matters video, made me think of a interesting arisin main pawn combination. A short, light mage into sorcerer arisin, and a tall, muscle clad fighter into warrior main pawn with a personality of doing his best to keep the heat off of me so I can cast my spells from a safe distance.
sounds like a good plan 👍
Yep its basically just your gear that REALLY makes a difference
Exactly, especially when you got BBI Gear, the main game becomes trivial.
I don't understand people who get to 200 as a class just to start playing with a different (now min/maxed) class that they actually want to play. Reminds me of that Southpark WoW episode.
at least they don't have to fight millions of pigs xD
There’s a noticeable difference in damage but it is *NOt* worth the grind
I pritty much stsrt as a strider till level10 then into ranger for 40 magic archer for like another 20 then leveled everthing till 90 am now a mystic knight 120 could not be happer nuke parrying everything
sounds pretty balanced, most imported, it's fun ;-)
Well i like min Max with my mage until lv 10 and then Sorcerer until 200. It add more difficulty.
if it is for your personal enjoyment, everything is fair game 👍
Well.... 1800 vs 900 swings ...kind of noticable
i really hope there is no enemy that needs to be hit 900 times
@@dugarrYT :DDD hehe, if I cannot pass the threshold there might be even more hits needed :D But what I meant was it means twice many hits with low vs top strength in this scenario
Nice job and comparation anyway.
@@panhouska you are right at that. i see it more as an convenience. you get faster in killing if you optimize, but you can still finish all content even if you don't.
Just use DLL hooks mod to set your stat growths if you still want min-maxed stats. Grinding for those is stupid and unfun.
works on pc, but what about consoles?
I for over 10 yrs could never stand these glass cannon gamers who swear by min max. What make them really annoying is that they are always trying to infect other gamers with their nonsense with min/max videos. What good is high damage when a level 1 enemy can 1 shot you?
everyone should play the way they want, but the "infectiveness" you mention is what grinds my gears. to many people give up on great games because someone told them they have to do X or Y or the game is not "playable"
Min-maxing is for scrubs. Play at least 6 different vocations to grab an Augment that'll compliment your final playstyle. For those who end up as Magic Knight, it be wise to consider these augments to increase your damage output, while also keeping in mind Dark Arisen caps the buffing to 80%.
Fighter's Rank 8 Vehemence -10%Str;
Striders Eminence - 30% more Jump Attack Dam or "Arm-Strength" to cling to large enemies better;
Mage's Attunement- 10% magic;
Warrior's Clout - 20% Str, Proficiency(25% stam reduction to physical moves,) or Ferocity -10% damage for Core Skills;
Sorceror's Acuity -10% magic or Articulacy - Faster Spell Cast
Assassin's Bloodlust(For fighting at Night) or Autonomy(if you solo at night) which both Give 20%Str/Mag and 30% to Phys/Mag Defense.
right, seems off to play all the way to 200 and only then do the vocations for the augmentations. unnecessary prolongs the wait till you can "play" what you want.
"YoU nEEd tO MInMaX if U plAy HaRdcORE" I play on hard mode exclusively. NEVER did those dumb minmax strats and had a fairly easy time. I don't get the mindset.
me neither
I have done a few min/max hybrid builds. Although fun to crunch numbers the first couple times, it gets boring after that. Personally i dont enjoy assassin much so playing 60+ levels with it, is just a slow death. Honestly i prefer magic classes but sorc can also get boring. The hybrid classes are the most fun for me. On my current playthrough i started as strider, got like 20 levels of magic archer immediately and now switched to MK. Ill just play whatever i feel like at the moment. Probably gonna swap to ranger in a few levels. I have never actually played ranger. I have played more warrior than ranger lol. 😅
i get you, i switch vocation so often that it is impossible to min/max for me. it's just boring!
It's funny because the usual skill tree being replaced by the augment systems implies that devs didn't intend min maxing
min/maximg often comes from the community. i‘m not aware of a game that intended min/maxing from the developing side
You say you will never break your character into something unplayable but a ranger whit 4000 atk is already so broken its unplayable
that is the good kind of broken. ;-)
i barely know the game and honestly i don't feel this explains properly that min/maxing is stupid. It seems to be based on play style really imo. If you happen to use your reposte as a mystic knight as your primary damage source than it makes sense to focus on magick but if you rarely block or don't rely on blocking as your primary damage source then physical stats would be ideal. but this only comes from my base understanding of mystic knight, I am unsure if their main hand weapon uses both stats or only one and idk if enchanting the weapon causes it to use the secondary stat if it isn't already. same with the shield. even if it does use both stats what about in cases where you play one type of class over another that doesn't use a mix of these stats such as the strider or ranger or even mage? how would magic benefit the strider and ranger and how would the physical damage effect the mage? This might prove that min/maxing for special classes is stupid but idk about the other more pure line classes, and that's if anyone even considers those classes worthwhile to play. I admit from the videos i've seen most people play the special/hybrid classes it seems.
the ting is, everything you can achieve through min/max you can also get if you choose your gear right or use consumables.
@@dugarrYT considering how strong gear is in the dark arisen version I believe it. Just stating your explanation doesn't feel very thorough. In the case for the mystic knight however it does feel pretty accurate but not so much for vocations that use only one of those stats.
@@raventhorX i agree that the explanation is lackluster. it was one of my earlier videos, i made another one on min/max since then.
I love you. Can I say that? Great video anyway!
haha, thank you :-D
As someone who hasn't min/maxed at all, and didn't know that leveling as a specific vocation affected stat growth until today, this video proves the opposite thing imo
how so?
Fine then. 1-10 mage 11-200 MK.
have fun ;-)
From my looking into things, if there’s anything worth maxing, it’s stamina.
yeah. stamina is something you can never enough of. becouse i didn't min/max i make good use of liquid vim 😉
While there is a lot of effort put into this, the conclusion is lacking. This conclusion only works because you are looking at a class that does both.
You are correct that every ounce of strength gained means the magic aspect of my character gets weaker, so that a natural balance between growing strong on one side and growing weak on the other works.
However, if I dont actually want to play a hybrid aka mystic knight, but a glasscannon ranger for example, any and all intelligence growth is something I do not want, and at that point the difference between 900 and 1800 per hit / shot is huge, because the magic side that contains the other "half" of my character's power sees no use on a ranger class.
Same goes for sorcerer builds. The "Natural balance" of the game cant really work when almost every class doesn't use one or the other stat entirely.
I'm usually not minmaxing, i'm maxing out vocations for their traits so I can use them on the one I actually want to play, and i'm mostly playing for the fun part. For some people however, fun means minmaxing a max strenght build for some oneshot shenanigans or minmaxing an intelligence build to play parry-only mystic knight. Simply play the game the way you enjoy it the most, and hey being oneshot by enemies while also being capable of oneshotting them is fun for some people!
There is a lot of truth in what you are saying. I just didn't want the video to become to overblown, that's why i choose the Mystic Knight.
The conclusion i wanted to present is, that min/maxing is not necessary and that you don't break your character if you play the Vocation you want. Reason for that was that i talked to a couple of new players and between them where quite a lot who quit the game because they felt pressures in playing 100lvl or more of a Vocation they had no interest in.
Even if you level up as a Mage/Sorcerer you could switch to a Fighter by lvl200, grab an elemental Weapon and be absolutely viable for endgame.
@@dugarrYT If it makes someone uncomfortable the way it works, I'd always recommend simply installing a mod if you're on the PC Dark Arisen version that equalizes statgains of all vocations.
I dont particularly like how vocations dont have their own base stats but for now it is what we have to put up with.
@@Konin300 On PC for sure. It seems to me that most new players are on Switch so.
@@Konin300 They really should have made the leveling mostly the same for all vocations, maybe give people that focused more on magick say maybe 10 or 20% more magick and so on.
The way it is now the game continiously encourages you to try out new vocations, punishes you for not leveling as the vocation you want your playstyle based on, and then kind of makes it redundant again once you begin to get access to bbi lvl 2/3 weapons specialised for your playstyle.
The system makes sense, but it can really kill the fun of leveling up sometimes especially for new players who don't understand if they did something wrong or not. It also really makes leveling to 200 feel like a pointless pursuit when you know your stats are already gimped and it hardly matters anymore.
it would have been nice if the game told you about it.
Here's where your logic falls apart and the whole min maxing approach actually makes sense, to the point of actually making your character unplayable if done wrong.
What you showed was basically the same issue people have when choosing a pure STR weapon over an enchanted weapon, you feel like enchanted weapons should do more damage considering you can equip both MAG and STR boosting augments....but in reality the pure STR weapon does just as much if not MORE overall damage compared to it, especially when using a pure STR build and all STR boosting augments.
Your example was also not optimized, the damage from melee goes up and magick goes down and vice a versa is true.....BUT for MK most of their skills don't even take Base STR into account for the calculation. So essentially if you wanna play a proper MK while using proper MK skills which give FAR more dps than their melee skills then you are much better off using a pure Magick build. By not relying on mediocre melee/STR skills you won't gimp yourself and will actually do way more damage in the long run. A pure STR build will make the skills exclusive to MK MUCH weaker because the now maxed out base STR won't even be counted for dmg calcs but what will be counted i.e. your base MAG is the lowest so overall you'll do significantly less damage in the long run compared to a pure MAG build.
The inverse is true for any and all STR based vocations, the ones which have no magick based skills at all. If you use a pure MAG build and play Strider/Ranger/Warrior etc guess what? Your base MAG will NEVER be taken into account with any of their skills even when using an Enchanted weapon. So now you've effectively gimped yourself out of playing a STR based vocation because you're STR is the lowest possible due to maxing MAG.
The only class that truly benefits from a mixed build is the Magick Archer because they can equip Daggers for pure STR based skills (Immolation is OP) and also Magick Bow for purely magick based skills. They can attack effeciently from either side of the spectrum and it's recommended too because while they are capable of pulling off both pure STR and MAG builds with the skills at their disposal they lose a lot of variety when they cannot use either Daggers or M.Bows for anything other than support.
That's the basic reason why min/maxing (at least in DDDA) WORKS! The specific vocations and their skills get affected and your damage is increased or decreased dramatically.
I never said it doesn't work, i stated that you will never end up with an unplayable character. Even with a pure str build i could play a sorcerer and push my magick with gear and consumables. It might not be optimal, but it is still playable and you can beat the game with it. A lot of min/maxer complain the game would become to easy, that is because the game is not build around a min/max approach.
Smort video, deserves a thumb
Thx 👍🏻
@@dugarrYT This what people need. It's annoying that many want to use meta cause it's meta. People need stop looking at numbers, when they don't actually matter
@JanmarGames Exactly, i wish that people just enjoy there games without getting pushed to do something just because it is sad to be "the best".
The problem with the game is "BBI" that it's rely on gear instead of player skill. One of the most annoying and laughable thing is to watch every other class that can't roll jump like an ass to avoid getting hit by enemies.
The balancing between the main game and BBI is really bad, i can agree on that. I try to solve it by not using BBI gear in the main game. At least i don't onehit everything that way.
For my take on this one is, are you gonna fight Death/daimon with hybrid stats or go full strength and use blast arrow and kill him one go not making the fight go over a minute or more potentially killing you if you are in hard mode, yes you will be having a hard time killing monster which you can only kill with magic but it doesn't matter because there are pawn that you can hire. less time killing daimon/death more time farming endgame equipment. Easier finishing the game to make a new game plus doing it all over again and altering your choices ingame see different outcome on cutscene
for me personally. i don’t like the grind. so going balance and fill the gaps with equipment and augments gives me a character that can be indefinitely used over NG+ without thinking that the spec i have doesn’t fit what i want to play right now.
I myself don't really care about min-maxing, i simply go with the class i wanna play more and change before Level 200 when i want other augments/simply having fun. But on my PS4 run, i leveled mostly Sorcerer to play as a Magic Archer, my favorite vocation. With it i have 2.900ish Magic with Blackwing Bow goldforged, and that seems to enough for BBI entirely >D
It's a obliterating machine, hahaha
While in my second save, my arisen is a ebony gurl rhat's a main Assassin,.so i focus more on that. Currently on post-game with Clear Skies glich working guys =Dv
Btw in case wanna add me, my PSNs are: rapha_the_kid and rapha_the_kid8, the second is lately more active
i tried minmaxinf for MA one, but lvl as a Sorcerer (who i didn't want to play at the time) became a chore. and MA with Magick Rebalencer is already more then strong enough. I don't play on PSN anymore, but if you are looking for someone to rent your Pawn, you can make an entry on our discord.
@@dugarrYT Oh no, don't really need. I just left my PSNs if someons in interested, but i csn edit my comment if you preffer XD
as you like 👍
Laughs in Ranger. Eat my ten arrows.
overkill *g*
Wish I'd seen this earlier.
Sick and tired of playing assassins.
that is exactly the problem, people get told min/max is necessary and than you spent hour playing something you actually don't want.
I actually done a balance build of 605.
Balance builds are great if you change Vocations regularly.
@@dugarrYT ya they are. I mostly play max strength assasin. I did do a mage run1-200 an it was brutal lol. My max damage with max strength assasin was 3.6M
I know what you mean. My pure Blue run nearly broke me. But now that i know better i ignore such things. 3.6m is a lot! Against what Monster did you get that?
@@dugarrYT I have no idea. I'm part of a dd group on Facebook an someone said they did this amount of damage so I looked through my accounts an one said 3.6m . Before that I never paid any attention to the damage output
Still great. Next time i boot up the game i have to look where i’m at 😁
Never cared about min/maxing and just played however i felt like playing.
best thing you can do!
@@dugarrYT Agreed.
I understand that gear and augments can compensate for min/max level, but a good or better gear is still not easy to find except for augments
this is true if you are new to the game, later you learn that you can get extremly good gear early on.
The only min max strategy I could recommend as a newbie is going 200 levels Strider for Max stamina
especially since it only has one save file and if you want to switch from a magic build to a physical build you might as well start over instead of NG+
true, strider is the most middelground you can get. ;-)
@@dugarrYT here's hoping Dragon's Dogma 2 has save slots and better Pawn AI. if you want your Pawn to be the healer then you have to be a Healer first. I want my Pawn to have a different role for better party composition
i think the Pawn AI is quite good, just the inclination system is flawed.
@@dugarrYT I continuously have to use them as decoys because all they do is stand around and do nothing, not attacking, not defending, not healing, nothing. the more pawns I have the less likely the enemy is to Target me
I want to play something other than the Mage healer but I have to keep babysitting my pawns
Also, the command wheel should be changed from go/help/come/help to go/help/come/stay. Where stay stops all pawn movement and/or action until you give them a different command or you get a certain distance
@@44burn1 what inclination and vocation does your pawn have
I don't even bother with min/maxing and i genuinely do not like the leveling system in dragon's dogma and hope it does not return for the sequel..
If I want to play a warrior but to make it as good as possible have to basically play 210 lvls as an assassin I might as well just play as an assassin..
With the way I play these games I'm level 40 or 50 before I'm even halfway into the the story, by 60 70 and 80 I've basically explore the entire possible map(aside from quest locked regions)
that is exactly what i mean. just play what is fun to you, you don't need to have an optimal build to enjoy the game.
aslong you avoid mage from lv 10 to 100 since its growth is really bad
it's the least optimal, yes!
I personally enjoy min maxing however I agree it isn't necessary to play the game
exactly, it can be fun, but you shouldn't stress over it.
Tx man.
Just saying but that was a good conclusion
thx :-D
I actually thought min/maxing made a good character. Thank you for proving me wrong.
keep telling yourself that as others kill stuff faster in BB with their 866 magic MA
I stand by my statement, it's not necessary to complete the game
while not min/maxing you still need a lot of planning if you want to go into a class like Magick Archer.
i don't think so. bbi gear is so strong you can become totaly op just with that.
@@dugarrYT yea I work lots of hours I don’t have time to min maxing i’m going to be a magic archer all the way to lv200 hope I’ll be fine we’ll see
Disagree entirely. I can wreck absolutely everything with a Magick Archer thanks to all the BBI stuff I've got including the Blackwing Bow, Helmbarte Daggers (I've yet to get the Framae Blades), most of the carrion armour etc. As long as you know the weaknesses of your enemies you're good to go even on BBI. The only enemy that can potentially screw over a Magick Archer is the Metal Gollum due to it's discs being practically immune to magic (an MA's arrows/bolts are all magic-based) and usually situated in awkward, hard-to-reach places that are often high up for daggers to reach. Luckily there's not all that many of them in the game and you can just run away from them anyway.