@ I can’t bring myself to do it! The d3 and fight 2 scares me deeply 😅 have you made it work? I saw the higher numbers in the lists in the video. I’ll be tempted to try it. But I’ve got gwaihir in there usually!
A word of support for Cirdan in battle of fornost lists: he’s not what he was last edition but still a really solid utility piece - helps keep your earnur and asfaloth alive with blessing of valar, helps give you extra damage with enchanted blades, and helps with disruption on key enemy models with call winds, not to mention knocking them prone to blunt damage or trap them. Fog of disarray is very niche but can help mitigate hurls and objective grabbers, and aura of dismay can be clutch when your enemy breaks if you need them to run. For 75 pts I would say he is definitely still worth it, above someone like Aranarth.
Hey Guys, i have a question regarding the halls of thranduil lists. In the squad of Thranduil, what is actually your front line? Would you not prefer to have some shield warriors D6 in front line. Palace guards should be supporting with spears and glaives only D5? I think the squad of thranduil should be more tanky or am i missing out on sth?
Hell yea boyzzzz Side note if eomer is your leader for the pelenor list, your riders and royal guard get the +1 fight on the charge. So it's definitely an option, if be it a risky one
Agree with the concerns about the loss of attacks on Thranduil. Don’t really see why he’s lost the 4th attack on foot as a proper glass cannon piece as he’s stuck at D6 at best and I don’t think the re rolls or the heroic combat are reliable enough to make it a decent trade off
Tyler is right, the mount has to have woodland creature for the whole model to move through woodland unaffected. Mirkwood cav have a regular horse which doesn't have woodland creature.
Defenders of pelennor having so much flexibility alongside free heroic combats is solid. Don't forget Eomer as general gives you that +1F for the royal guard, can't use him as a wrecking ball as much but getting more F4 for F3 warriors of the dead could be clutch. Would love to see another mounted hero to make full use of that table wide Death but going to hurt numbers on a mostly foot list.
In the Defenders of the Pelennor, wouldn't it be better to make Eomer the general so you can use the Arise, Riders of Rohan! rule? It only works when you have a Rohan general.
It depends on how risky you feel like being with Eomer. Sure he is no slouch and can take a few whacks, but having Legolas as your general gives you that freedom to play Eomer with a lot more risk. Both as generals are more than valid, Just comes down to, how you are wanting to play the army. -Sean
Atop the Wall is so good! I went undefeated in a recent 800Pt tournament with this list: 800 Pts Atop the Wall- 800 points | 37 models Atop the Wall Gandalf the White: Shadowfax, Pippin (250) 1x Warrior of Minas Tirith: Banner (33) 7x Warrior of Minas Tirith: Shield (63) 9x Warrior of Minas Tirith: Shield and spear (90) Irolas, Captain of the Guard: (65) 11x Citadel Guard: Longbow (99) Gondor Battlecry Trebuchet: (100) Gondor Battlecry Trebuchet: (100)
Interesting! My current 850 Atop the Walls I’ve been testing just had the 1 trebuchet, but added a captain, another warband and additional banner for 40ish models. What have your thoughts been on the usefulness of the trebuchets? Feel like I’m taking them more to ensure my opponents don’t sit back and shoot rather than for their damage output
@MtnGoatGaming It answers Trolls and Eagles mostly. They are also big distraction Carnifex's that my opponents fixate on while the rest of my army does work. I also find when I run 1 it doesn't do enough for it's points, but with 2 it feels right. They also threaten Mumaks which are heavily played in my meta.
True, but at least his upgrades make him genuinely viable. Keep glorfindel nearby to rescue him from anything nasty and maybe a cirdan call winds on opposing heroes!
You can't cast spells with shadowfax's will? But you can use shadowfaxe's fate to save gandalf? Is there anywhere in the rulebook that explains might will and fate on named mounts, because Ive been confused about this since the new edition hahah.
So a few things. - Gandalf must always use his own will to cast. In the last edition it was part of the FAQ that stated this was the case so the status quo should be the same here. - Unless otherwise stated (passengers like Merry and Pippin), you can only use Shadowfax's heroic resources on himself. And Gandalf can only do it for himself. The exception to this is spells that target the whole model - in which case either can use their will to resist. BUT you can only use Gandalf's might on his resist dice.
The rules for Hero mounts are on page 75. They state that when the mount is a hero, the rider and the mount may spend each others might, will and fate, the only exception being that they can only use their own will when casting spells.
I tell you what, scaling that atop the walls list could be very interesting once the 3rd book drops. Obviously it depends what they do with the profiles but if they give good treatment to Hurin, Ingold and Beregond that could be very spicy. Possible question marks over whether Ingold would be able to be taken but I think it’d be harsh to exclude him.
Defenders of the ramas will be a cool list with ingold, rangers and bow faramir, then gandalf without pippin. Atop the walls should get imrahil in and the fiefdoms!
Also, this may be wishful thinking but imagine if Beregond also gets a rule that buffs Cit guard in some way. So synergising him with Irolas really starts to cook. That could be fantastic and really justify them being Elite.
I am a huge fan of Beorn profile but personally i think in the battle of the five armies Gwahir is far better than him. Gwahir as leader has almost same profile as Beorn (-2 streght and no magic resistance) and can fly where he wants while Beorn with his berserk rule can have you lose VP for wounding leader (if he is the leader) and can compromise your formation if your opponent places well his obligatory target. Gwahir can have Eagles use his heroic actions and those 50 points cheaper are sooo useful in a list trying to squeeze any point possible in order to increase his model numbers at any point break
This edition to me feels like a +1 to wound meta more than a fight value meta. Ugluks, Thranduil, Boromir, Hilda, Irolas, Dale, Two handing in general. Regardless, whatever Tyler plays will be the best list in Australia... and also, only Sean would look at Dale and say, "at 600 points I need 3 Wind Lances."
what do you mean of course Sean 🤣🤣🤣 I hated windlances before it was cool. This edition tho, I'm liking them a lot more. 3 is solid at 600 with the amount of eagle lists and monsters we are seeing. Definitely seeing alot more +1 to wound, Reroll failed wounds, reroll 1s to wound. Personally I think that's a good thing, makes the game alot quicker to play when stuffs actually dying. -sean
I don't think Alex look at the ruels of the trebuchet. It is shit. 100p for a siege engine that you can't move at all for the rest of the game, with that 45° fire angle. You can't even turn it!
Yeahhhhhh they went from being trash in the last edition to absolutely shocking this edition. The fear factor that they brought in the last edition has been culled. -Sean
Yeah my dude Dale with major access to plus one to wound and on top of that their opponent has to make it to them under crazy fire. Odds are combats gonna swing Dale's way. Sadly lost access to those D6 knights tho 😭 -Sean
Come hang out in our Discord! We're on right now, follow the link in the description to join!
discord.gg/Zje2E9dxSg
Love the discussion guys!
Tyler's reaction at 43:50 was perfect btw hahaha
Love you 😘
BUT IM RIGHT THO AND YOU ALLLLLLL KNOW IT
-Alex
Been waiting for this 🔥 🐐 I’ve been cooking with the 5 armies and fixed the scary part! Low numbers but insane heroes
Numbers are good when you add in laketown my dude ;)
@ I can’t bring myself to do it! The d3 and fight 2 scares me deeply 😅 have you made it work? I saw the higher numbers in the lists in the video. I’ll be tempted to try it. But I’ve got gwaihir in there usually!
A word of support for Cirdan in battle of fornost lists: he’s not what he was last edition but still a really solid utility piece - helps keep your earnur and asfaloth alive with blessing of valar, helps give you extra damage with enchanted blades, and helps with disruption on key enemy models with call winds, not to mention knocking them prone to blunt damage or trap them. Fog of disarray is very niche but can help mitigate hurls and objective grabbers, and aura of dismay can be clutch when your enemy breaks if you need them to run. For 75 pts I would say he is definitely still worth it, above someone like Aranarth.
@@jesseg9013 he is defently now balanced in a good way. Before he was just annoing
@@grimgrauman7650 haha ya definitely over tuned before, seems like he may be in a good place now, especially back as a hero of fortitude.
Hey Guys, i have a question regarding the halls of thranduil lists. In the squad of Thranduil, what is actually your front line? Would you not prefer to have some shield warriors D6 in front line. Palace guards should be supporting with spears and glaives only D5? I think the squad of thranduil should be more tanky or am i missing out on sth?
Hell yea boyzzzz
Side note if eomer is your leader for the pelenor list, your riders and royal guard get the +1 fight on the charge. So it's definitely an option, if be it a risky one
Ooof, but what a trade off!
That means fight 5 Royal guard hey?
@@jayhansen7885 sure does!
Agree with the concerns about the loss of attacks on Thranduil. Don’t really see why he’s lost the 4th attack on foot as a proper glass cannon piece as he’s stuck at D6 at best and I don’t think the re rolls or the heroic combat are reliable enough to make it a decent trade off
I agree, luckily the rest of the army can hold their own!
Tyler is right, the mount has to have woodland creature for the whole model to move through woodland unaffected. Mirkwood cav have a regular horse which doesn't have woodland creature.
That’s a shame, though they are still powerful as hell
Defenders of pelennor having so much flexibility alongside free heroic combats is solid. Don't forget Eomer as general gives you that +1F for the royal guard, can't use him as a wrecking ball as much but getting more F4 for F3 warriors of the dead could be clutch. Would love to see another mounted hero to make full use of that table wide Death but going to hurt numbers on a mostly foot list.
Yeah it was a tough list to build man
I think if you want to maximise the heroic combat, play it all mounted
In the Defenders of the Pelennor, wouldn't it be better to make Eomer the general so you can use the Arise, Riders of Rohan! rule? It only works when you have a Rohan general.
It depends on how risky you feel like being with Eomer.
Sure he is no slouch and can take a few whacks, but having Legolas as your general gives you that freedom to play Eomer with a lot more risk.
Both as generals are more than valid, Just comes down to, how you are wanting to play the army.
-Sean
Atop the Wall is so good! I went undefeated in a recent 800Pt tournament with this list:
800 Pts Atop the Wall- 800 points | 37 models
Atop the Wall
Gandalf the White: Shadowfax, Pippin (250)
1x Warrior of Minas Tirith: Banner (33)
7x Warrior of Minas Tirith: Shield (63)
9x Warrior of Minas Tirith: Shield and spear (90)
Irolas, Captain of the Guard: (65)
11x Citadel Guard: Longbow (99)
Gondor Battlecry Trebuchet: (100)
Gondor Battlecry Trebuchet: (100)
Also, I use that exact Riders of Eomer list, and it slaps!
Interesting! My current 850 Atop the Walls I’ve been testing just had the 1 trebuchet, but added a captain, another warband and additional banner for 40ish models.
What have your thoughts been on the usefulness of the trebuchets? Feel like I’m taking them more to ensure my opponents don’t sit back and shoot rather than for their damage output
@MtnGoatGaming It answers Trolls and Eagles mostly. They are also big distraction Carnifex's that my opponents fixate on while the rest of my army does work. I also find when I run 1 it doesn't do enough for it's points, but with 2 it feels right. They also threaten Mumaks which are heavily played in my meta.
Love battle of fornost, the biggest weakness is mandatory Earnur general now
True, but at least his upgrades make him genuinely viable. Keep glorfindel nearby to rescue him from anything nasty and maybe a cirdan call winds on opposing heroes!
@ that’s a good point. I worry about the 1 fate but he’s definitely still a bruiser.
You can't cast spells with shadowfax's will? But you can use shadowfaxe's fate to save gandalf? Is there anywhere in the rulebook that explains might will and fate on named mounts, because Ive been confused about this since the new edition hahah.
So a few things.
- Gandalf must always use his own will to cast. In the last edition it was part of the FAQ that stated this was the case so the status quo should be the same here.
- Unless otherwise stated (passengers like Merry and Pippin), you can only use Shadowfax's heroic resources on himself. And Gandalf can only do it for himself. The exception to this is spells that target the whole model - in which case either can use their will to resist. BUT you can only use Gandalf's might on his resist dice.
The rules for Hero mounts are on page 75. They state that when the mount is a hero, the rider and the mount may spend each others might, will and fate, the only exception being that they can only use their own will when casting spells.
Alright, this clears it up for me, cheers!
I tell you what, scaling that atop the walls list could be very interesting once the 3rd book drops. Obviously it depends what they do with the profiles but if they give good treatment to Hurin, Ingold and Beregond that could be very spicy. Possible question marks over whether Ingold would be able to be taken but I think it’d be harsh to exclude him.
Defenders of the ramas will be a cool list with ingold, rangers and bow faramir, then gandalf without pippin. Atop the walls should get imrahil in and the fiefdoms!
True, the list has many variations that will slap bro!
Let us know how you go if you try any of the other options!!
Also, this may be wishful thinking but imagine if Beregond also gets a rule that buffs Cit guard in some way. So synergising him with Irolas really starts to cook. That could be fantastic and really justify them being Elite.
I am a huge fan of Beorn profile but personally i think in the battle of the five armies Gwahir is far better than him.
Gwahir as leader has almost same profile as Beorn (-2 streght and no magic resistance) and can fly where he wants while Beorn with his berserk rule can have you lose VP for wounding leader (if he is the leader) and can compromise your formation if your opponent places well his obligatory target. Gwahir can have Eagles use his heroic actions and those 50 points cheaper are sooo useful in a list trying to squeeze any point possible in order to increase his model numbers at any point break
They both offer their own uniqueness. I think in a monster meta, Beorn comes out on top in terms of killing power.
This edition to me feels like a +1 to wound meta more than a fight value meta. Ugluks, Thranduil, Boromir, Hilda, Irolas, Dale, Two handing in general.
Regardless, whatever Tyler plays will be the best list in Australia... and also, only Sean would look at Dale and say, "at 600 points I need 3 Wind Lances."
what do you mean of course Sean 🤣🤣🤣
I hated windlances before it was cool.
This edition tho, I'm liking them a lot more.
3 is solid at 600 with the amount of eagle lists and monsters we are seeing.
Definitely seeing alot more +1 to wound, Reroll failed wounds, reroll 1s to wound.
Personally I think that's a good thing, makes the game alot quicker to play when stuffs actually dying.
-sean
Since you need a hero of fortitude+ for each siege engine, don't you need a 3rd hero for the 3rd windlance?
First
I don't think Alex look at the ruels of the trebuchet. It is shit. 100p for a siege engine that you can't move at all for the rest of the game, with that 45° fire angle. You can't even turn it!
Yeahhhhhh they went from being trash in the last edition to absolutely shocking this edition.
The fear factor that they brought in the last edition has been culled.
-Sean
Dale is definitely strong but once someone gets into combat with them, they fold hard
@@TomRogueDice but the enemy does too. They are still F4 and get +1 to wound most of the time
Yeah my dude Dale with major access to plus one to wound and on top of that their opponent has to make it to them under crazy fire.
Odds are combats gonna swing Dale's way.
Sadly lost access to those D6 knights tho 😭
-Sean
69th
Gandalf Aragorn Eowyn defenders of Pellenor list 🤌