Can A Christian Lose Their Salvation? A Debate With Trent Horn & Dr. James White (Part 1)
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- Update: Part 2 is now available here: • Can A Christian Lose T...
Watch as Trent Horn of Catholic Answers and Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries debate the theology surrounding the topic: "Can A Christian Lose Their Salvation?" This debate was moderated by Michael O'Fallon on January 18, 2017. Sovereign Alliance sponsored the event at the 2017 G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia with over 1,300 audience members in attendance. Stay tuned as Part 2 of this debate will be released soon!
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Update: Part 2 is now available here: ruclips.net/video/XhK0urKAyYw/видео.html
Sovereign Alliance
Sovereign Alliance the Messiah
said what we have to do to make it to The Kingdom in
Matthew 19:16,17
1st John 2:3-6, Remember, The
Messiah walked according to
commandments of the Old Testament, due to the fact there was no New Testament around when the Messiah walked the Earth.
1st John 3:4 tells us what is sin.
Lastly, why out of all Of The Messiahs disciplines, why did
Paul always call hisself an Apostle & only one of the churches he established, only one is counted among the seven in Revelations. Read
Revelation 2:2 & find out.
In Matthew 24:22-26 The Messiah warns us about ppl
like Paul. Paul claims to have met The Messiah in a desert & he also states he receivers his
Info directly from The Messiah 🤔 its not looking good for your beloved Paul. Why is it that all or Most modern churches preach out of Paul's letters and not on The Messiahs message?
chuck taylor, read Acts ch 9 vs 1-31
carol zappa so Paul's writings
supersedes The Messiahs message🤔
Good luck with that.
sovereign A__, do you believe you were predestined from the foundation of the world to be an elect of God, Going to Heaven no matter what sins you commit?
Jesus: 'If you love me, keep my commandments'. The parable of the sheep and the goats told by Jesus is not something to ignore. A good tree produces good fruit. James said works are a demonstration of faith. If you really believe and follow Jesus, you will naturally follow his commandments.
Anne Larm “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2:4 KJV
“(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)”
2 Corinthians 6:2 KJV
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James did not present faith as the CAUSE and WORKS as the mere effect of faith. He said:
…21 Was not our father Abraham justified by what he DID when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith was WORKING WITH HIS ACTIONS, and his faith was PERFECTED by what he did.
(James 2:21-22)
What Abraham did was an obedient response to the word God had given him. Usually the point is made that had he not BELIEVED God he never would have climbed Moriah and offered Isaac. At the same time, it could also be said that had he not ACTED on what God had told Him by traveling to Moriah, and climbing the mountain and lifting the knife he would not have have been exercising faith. According to this verse, Abraham's FAITH and his obedient ACTIONS INTERACTED to bring his faith to perfection. Faith without an active obedient response, is dead.
@@JimiSurvivor
Analogy of Faith
Adam claims to have faith in Jake...but does he truly?
Adam: "I believe in you, Jake"
Jake: Hey adam! I want you to turn left, there you will find me
Adam: I think I will find you on the right
Jake: You won't
Adam: Just watch
Adam: *Gets Lost*
Jake: *Drives to Adam*
Jake: Adam, I told you to turn right. Why didn't you believe in me?
Adam: I do believe in You
Jake: Then why didn't you do what I say?
Adam: I just thought that you were on the right
Jake: You believe in yourself, not in me, If you truly trust me then you would do as I say
@@Heavenly.Ministries
Very appropriate analogy and application of logic. It is that simple. Several times Paul even uses the phrase "the OBEDIENCE of FAITH"
@@BanishedsoulsofficialThe Bible says "for this is the love of God that we keep his commandments and his commands are not burdensome to us
(1 John 5:9)
I'm convinced that there is no way that any sin is more powerful than what Jesus did on the cross
Hebrews 10:26-27
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Tom Lipshits
I guess you're right you're good works are better than Jesus sacrifice on the cross
@@georgeibrahim7945Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; You are incorrect, Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: Name a sin that is greater then God's grace?
@@georgeibrahim7945 .....oh my dear brother, you absolutely butchered your knowledge. How does one not understand that verse.
That's not about loosing salvation. Lol
If our very best Deeds are as filthy rags to a holy God what do we have to offer
I was a Calvinist for 10 years, until I began studying the church fathers, and then I became Catholic. All Christians for the first 1500 years of Christianity believed that you could lose your salvation. John Calvin was the first theologian that taught that you can't lose your salvation.
My friend, you evolved but backwards
@TheCASSMAN777
** All Christians for the first 1500 years of Christianity believed that you could lose your salvation**
That is factually incorrect. During the first almost 500 years the dominant belief amongst Christianity was Christus Victor, ie Universal Reconciliation by Christ for creation.
We cannot earn our salvation by good works, but we can lose it by unrepentant sin.
There is no such thing as an unrepentant Christian. If a person claims he was saved, but is or becomes apostate... he was never saved. I was saved at 11 y.o., I never became apostate or unrepentant. I am now 62 y.o.. The same with my friends.
If salvation wasn’t earned by our good works then how can we unearn it by our bad works (in your case, unrepentant sin)? God will convict a believer if unrepentant sin and lead them out of it, but to immediately say you can lose it not only goes against the idea of salvation by grace, but also against the idea that Jesus promises He will not lose one believer and will keep them secure (John 6:39).
@@jojijosette5946 Judas was called and chosen, that means he has salvation?
How does that work does Jesus redeeme u when u belive him like he says he does ? THEN if you fall a way he UN REDEEMS U ? how does that happen
John 6.38...And this is the will of Him who sent me. That I shall lose none of all that He has given me, but raise them up at the last day to eternal life.
If man could maintain sinlessness and not fall from grace by his own will then Christ died for absolutely no reason...it would make no sense for Christ to die for our sins but if we screw up its nil and void...that would mean a yearly animal sacrifice for sin would be superior to the cross, which is absurd.
shawn stephens Good job.
So do you mean that you cannot try at least to do good, follow Jesus teachings, you are telling me that we are unable of follow and actually put into practice Jesus teachings. Oh just wow
maria jarvis You completely misses what Shawn wrote. I suggest you spend time in the New Testament and ask Jesus to give you understanding.
Exactly! Jesus work at the cross is much greater. Satan comes to steak, kill and destroy. This is to put children of God (born again) under condemnation and those unsaved under works to attempt to earn something that is not earnable. It’s a gift and God has to first prepare the heart for salvation. So a person cannot just out of the blue decide to be born again.
shawn stephens YOU REMAIN SINLESS BY GETTING AND KEEPING A SANCTIFIED HEART....!!! LIKE PAUL DID...
If Salvation was up to me I would louse it.
But since salvation is of the Lord then it is the Lord that does the saving.
Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to the cross I cling
That is false
@@israelshells9726You haven't a clue do you?
Are you choosing to 'cling to the cross'?
Hebrews 3:12-19 (KJV)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
My brother, a believer can depart from the Lord!
Dr. James White seems to lose all these debates. Unless your beliefs are already aligned with his, he will not convince you otherwise. He lost this one for me.
I hate the term ‘lose’ your salvation as if you can lose your salvation like you can lose your car keys.
Of course we cannot lose our salvation but we can forsake our relationship with God through Christ.
Love is a constant decision; we can decide to stop loving anyone, including God, at anytime. We have a role in our salvation and that is to believe in and remain in Jesus (John 3:16, John 15:4).
In a sense, each time we sin we forsake our relationship with God. But if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).
Both of those are basically the same things. God knows the heart and he is the one that allows tests.
Parable of the seed shows how we interacted with the gospel, with Jesus, with our relationship.
I like the way you said this. Thank you. I believe this can lead to apostasy as stated in Hebrews 6.
Its simple; if you expect to see a loved one at the end of a journey, you start walking. If not, you don't.
Very insightful👍
@@fredrios1402 x
Well said!
@CJ P. You are right. Life is hard. But what did the father do when the prodigal son decided to turn home?
He ran towards him ;)
You walk whether or not you expect to see someone at the end or not.
A person who understands the great danger of death in sin, will hold on to God’s grace, by obeying his commandments.
You do not understand grace.
It is not work.
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WRONG HAVE U BEEN REDEEMED 4 EVER ? I KNOW I HAVE AND CAN NOT BE ,,,,,,,,UN,,,, REDDEMED EVER Dont trust your works please
I would be very glad if I can always be saved till I die, that's comforting. But as I read the bible, all of Paul's warning and encouragement just to make Christians persevere and finish the race and receive the reward of eternal life, i strongly believe that we should live as persons that are saved. Faith without work is dead as salvation without proof is.
It’s comforting because that’s The gospel
Christ will not take Back what was freely given as a gift. You can't lose something you didn't earn in the first place. Works are only an indication, not a salvation. How much good works does one have to add to Christ's death on the cross? None. We can't help Jesus save us, he paid the entire price. No sinful man's good works were ever good enough. Jesus said our good works are like filthy rags. If they were of some help, He would have said so. Christ's Crucifixion was the only thing necessary. Paid in full.
@@827dusty amén
QUESTION EVERYTHING ? Amen
Faith without works exists!!!!! It's just not productive!!! Stop misrepresenting the book of James
Then the comments have a debate of their own..Amazing.
lol
@@JackKnifedJuggernautt You like discord among brethren? We should be trying to be united for our love for Lord Jesus. I understand arguments amongst us can at times be unavoidable, but we should all try to see our common ground.
@@FreeGraceWarrior hello I am not here to argue but to ask a question.
Is denying the fact that I can/never lose my salvation affects my salvation even if I endure to the end to be saved?
@@FreeGraceWarrior What I mean is does my salvation matter to what doctrine I believe in order to be saved even I am enduring to the end?
@@carlopiedad6429 hi Carlo, what do you think being saved really means? Search out the meaning of this word and then search out the meaning according to the Bible. Learn what exaltation means in comparison to the word saved. Jesus Christ is your advocate with the Father. He knows your heart and mind. No man can be saved and come to God except through Jesus Christ. If you're confused it just means you need to study and ask questions until you are confident in knowledge of the doctrines because some are of men and not God.
“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.”
I John 2:19 NKJV
You quoted 1jh2.19 will you quote 1jh 2.1thru 4 you will have your answer
Refers to "spies" not false converts.
@@israelshells9726 -- Christianity's replacement theology confuses everything.
They were not of us. Weren't believers.
Big Daddy “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2:4 KJV
“(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)”
2 Corinthians 6:2 KJV
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I have faith that Jesus will save me from my sins. There's no way I could save my self even if i tried. Put All my faith, hope & trust in christ.
Why believe that Jesus will not save (You) When he did just that!?! I guess you serve a Jesus who is weak!
1 Corinthians 15:1-4; 1John 2:2 you have no sin to pay for. Why? Cause Christ paid it all -
Read also where it says! That all will see the salvation of God!
wenezz with that logic it’s kind of like saying you chose to accept Half of Jesus’s teachings and for that you’re only “Half Saved”.
Mike Walton what half are you referring to? Are you implying that a man COULD have a hand in justifying himself before God?
cookiehead2 yes, we are saved by Grace... you have to show GOD that you are putting behind your Sinful ways. Once you accept him as your saviour and absolutely whole heartedly try to live Life according to his Teachings and ways...
Protestants do accept Jesus but don’t do the will of the Father. No offence... but my personal experience is Protestant is that they Cherry Pick bible verses better than actual cherry picks, to and justify with there made up Theologies. Then, themselves try to justify with there own self, to fit those very theories.
No Offence, just speaking the Truth and God Bless.
Mike Walton would you accept that there are any individuals in the Protestant denominations that read the Bible in its entirety AND attempt to follow God’s revealed will?
Great debate! Glad I was able to see this in person
Amen!
Does Jesus Christ redeeme u then if your bad UN REDEEME U ?
Are you still alive?
Who do you agree with?
MEANING? DID U READ MY COMMENT ?
@@theodoreritola7641 Are you talking to me or psalm7315? Because I was talking to psalm7315.
I just want to warn anyone who wonder if you can lose your salvation, I personally had a vision while at work of me personally losing my salvation due to constant sin, the vision was clear enough to stop me in the middle of working. I don't do drugs nor drink. There is nothing more important or valuable than your personal relationship with the Lord. Don't let anyone fool you to thinking that constant sin is OK. There is nothing on this planet worth risking your relationship with Him. Please I'm begging you to stay focus and be obedient to the Lord and His will, don't be lukewarm🙏
We’ll I guess I can say first is that the Gospel isn’t JUST Believing in Christ. It is also receiving a new heart. This heart doesn’t want to sin. No Christian wants to live in sin. Phil. 1:6 tells us what God starts He will finish. God Bless You!
Mr Black “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2:4 KJV
“(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)”
2 Corinthians 6:2 KJV
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I went astray big time for over a decade. I have repeated and changed my behavior. I plan on making it to Heaven. If I was blotted out, then that couldn't happen.
with sincere respect, we don't know you and people claiming they had a vision from El Elyon are exceedingly commonplace. Mind if I ask what you mean, specifically, by "constant sinning"?
@@Kingdombound1111 I hear ya, sister. My wandering went on for a little over 20 years. Many would tell me that that means I likely was never saved to begin with, but I hope you will trust me that when I first believed on Jesus I was expecting to feel condemned all the time. That was how I was raised as a non church goer. What happened the next day after committing to Jesus was the exact opposite. I *met* Him. I was renewed. It was the singular most wonderful experience of my life. The wandering away (not from believing that Jesus is the Messiah) was gradual after about 3 years of strong commitment. I eventually did whole heartedly repent. I just couldn't keep living like that. My conscience wouldn't let me. Still, my terror is that I may have lost that salvation even though my heart longs to please Him and rejects sin. How are you on this matter? May I ask?
If you are truly saved, you can't lose it, or it would not be true salvation. If you are not yet saved, you never had salvation, so you can't lose what you never had.
Very true
@LION OF JUDAH JESUS CHRIST!
Romans 38-39 says "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Anyone who is truly saved cannot lose their salvation.
@@tylerb9877Amen
Now none of you can claim the Bible doesn't contradict itself.
@Sun Wukong The Bible doesn't contradict itself. Our interpretations of the Bible sometimes contradict because we are flawed human beings.
Trent summed it up perfectly right at the end. Only a theological precommitment would deny someone from recognising it.
and then you wake up
👏
Forget not the Lord Jesus!
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@@ManlyServantExplain how the parable of the unforgiving servant doesn’t teach that one can lose their salvation. You can’t claim the servant wasn’t a “true believer” as they had all of their debt forgiven. Do false converts have their sin forgiven?
I see Mr. White's part of the debate (the bible verses he used) as complementary to Mr.Horn's point. The evidence found in scripture is very clear as Mr. Horn showed it !
As an evangelical it surprised me to agree with Horn that is catholic; this reminded me that God wants the church to be ONE just like the Father and Son are one♡
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. -John 17:20-23 💕
Roman Catholicism preach a false works gospel. If you can't detect even the false gospel of the RCC, you have zero spiritual discernment. Ephesians 2:8 states we are saved by grace through faith, not of works.
@ktownbball ktownbball if James White won the debate you be agreeing with his stance on the issue. You just admitted that you don’t agree so therefore, you’re contradicting yourself and Trent won.
@ktownbball ktownbball I haven't watched the full debate yet but, especially being that I believe in eternal security, I'd greatly appreciate if you could mention some points that you feel Trent Gotten didn't mention or not very well, as to why you hold your view but thought he did better. God bless.
The reason you agree with horn because you are a synergist
@ktownbball ktownbball if they were better arguments, you would have no choice but to agree with his viewpoint. But you don’t, therefore….
"We can certainly fail ourselves." Yeah, no duh Mr. Horn, we're sinners in need of a perfect Savior. So stupid.
Jesus is my Savior...now I live to make Him my Lord.
Biblically what must you do
You made him your Lord? You must be very powerful.
Yeah you dont make Jesus Lord, hun.
Sound like you’re the lord and not jesus
Jesus is Lord
Trent Horn was one of God’s servants that helped me come back to the faith and even learn how to defend it and teach others. God Bless you Trent!
Trent did a great job defending the faith passed down.
Shrewd and convincing .................genius of a guy!!
As a student of the bible and who used to believe that i could lose my Salvation..i now do not..if u are born again how can you lose or forfeit the Holy Spirit? God knows my heart is deceitful, i cant fight Satan on my own..Jesus is my shield,my hiding place..if i could lose my Salvation i would..i love Him,
How do you look at Heb 6:4-8?
@@vonAdieux I'm fairly certain the writer of Hebrews is talking to Jews. Also, if you believe deliberate sinning causes loss of salvation, at what point is the sinning deliberate? Jesus tells those who trust in their works to depart from him.
@@phillipmccoy3476 Jews. Jews. Jews.
So many Christians today divide Gods children. You need to read Paul's words about Gods children. He says there is neither Jew nor Greek. When someone comes to Jesus we are all one.
I truly believe the reason there is so much division is because everyone keeps dividing.
People need to just accept we are all Gods children & that the Bible is a witness & it's all Gods word!
@Faison
Was Lucifer in heaven before he was kicked out?
What about Judas, the son of destruction?
Listen to Jesus words in John17:12 While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
Jesus kept all his followers safe but even though Judas had faith, " it was not a true saving faith". Judas was never “saved,” but for a time he was a follower of Christ.
You have to read ALL of Jesus' words & let it sink in.
Jesus made many warnings that Christians CAN and WILL FALL AWAY & he also said in Matthew 7 21-23
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
DO YOU SEE THAT?
Jesus plainly said, NOT EVERYONE WHO SAYS< LORD,LORD will ENTER HEAVEN!
Now read the end, BUT THE ONE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN!
Get it?
Do you understand?
Jesus made it perfectly clear that not all Christians will make it to heaven.
Lucifer being kicked out and Judas should be prime examples that a Christian CAN lose their seat in heaven!
@Eliza 2021 If one looses their salvation, can you really call them a Christian? A verbal confession of faith doesn't equate to true faith. Even good works dosent necessarily equate to true saving faith.
It's not what we do but what he done for us. Truly born again will have remorse for their mistakes
Exactly, if you are really truly born again and you really recived jesus in your heart the holy spirit starts working, you may still have bad habits but there will be something making you feel bad and annoyed about it and thats the holy spirit. Eventually you will be a different person. It's not like 1 day to the other change.
1 John 5:4:
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
A newborn Christian can no longer return in the state of not being born again.
The Bible never mentions such a situation.
Especially since this action happens sovereignly from God's side without our will playing a role in it.
KJV+ King James Version
John 1:12-13:
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Jesus settled this debate in the Lords Prayer: WHENEVER YOU PRAY (not just once but every time you pray)... say... Forgive me my sins as I forgive those who sin against me..." If all of our sins were forgiven past present and future then why does Jesus say we should continuously ask for forgiveness of our sins? Obviously Because our future sins are not forgiven. we must continually repent or become lost once again.
Agreed. Our sins remain, neither blotted out nor paid for, until we come to repentance:
⚫ "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord" (Acts 3:19, NKJV).
1 Peter 3:18 "for Christ died for sins, once for all (past, present,& future), the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
@@brettpruefer7541 Right: Jesus died to make His death available to cover the death penalty we've earned for sins. That mercy, that coverage, that redemption is now available to cover sins as we come to repentance . . . and remain in repentance, walking "in the light:"
⚫ "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7)
"Cleanseth" is present tense, as we remain in repentance. The idea that all sins were blotted out and "paid for" _when Jesus died in the cross_ is error, and has lead to the "faith alone" disaster. "Faith alone" says all sins - past, present and future - were paid for, therefore sin is no longer a salvation issue. And repentance is nice, but no longer necessary. That does not compare well to Jesus' warning:
⚫ except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:5)
"Faith alone" is a sly, sneaky way of saying that neither repentance nor obedience are necessary. Does not compare well to scripture:
⚫ "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things by the things which he suffered;
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation *_unto all them that obey him"_* (Hebrews 5:8,9)
@@brettpruefer7541 This just means that Jesus was the Passover lamb, the last sacrifice for sins. Sacrificing is now no longer required.
It doesn't mean forgiveness for 1 individuals past present and future sins.
@@kizzy2874 So does this mean that Jesus has to die everytime you sin then?
Used to be a Calvinist but now I'm not.
Other way round for me.
Other way round for me too
So you’re saying you ‘evolved’ from it Mr. Darwin?
@Shameless Papist Calvinism is NOT a philosophy, it's a worldview which is consistent and biblical.
I used to be a heretic and now I’m a Calvinist
I am a protestant too and I believe we can lose our salvation
Your belief is false
Yep, your belief is false. Salvation is a gift given to us; it is by grace we have been saved, NOT works. THERE IS NOTHING you can DO to earn salvation; Jesus died for our sins (past, present and future) when he was crucified on the cross. So what you believe is, you'd have to work your way out of salvation; you would have to DO something to lose it. Based on God's truth, it is 100% false teaching you believe in.
According to the letters of Christ to the seven churches in Revelations, you can lose your salvation and have your name blotted out of the Book of life. It's not something I would even want to contemplate.
To say that if a person can lose their salvation was never truly saved, is to say that their name was never written in the Book of life and therefore can not be blotted out and nullifies the letters to the churches.
2 Timothy, Hebrews 2 and Revelations 2,3 warn believers not to lose their faith and therefore salvation.
@@coolHandLuke830 there's only ONE book of Revelation...2nd and 3rd RevelationS do not exist. Oh so you're pointing to Rev. 3:5 ("He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.") as "proof" that one can lose their salvation. The promise in Rev. 3:5 is clear: the Lord will not erase a name: “He who OVERCOMES . . . I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life.” An overcomer is one who is victorious over the temptations, trials, and evils of this world-in other words, one who is redeemed. The saved are written in God’s registry and have the promise of eternal security. The Bible also says that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he was never truly a Christian (1 John 2:19). He may have been religious, he may have put on a good show, but he was never born again by the power of God.
You seem to believe that faith and salvation are one and the same; they have two separate meanings. Salvation is deliverance from danger. To save is to deliver or protect. What are Christians saved from? In the Christian doctrine of salvation, we are saved from “wrath,” that is, from God’s judgment of sin. How are we saved by God? Through Jesus Christ, specifically his death on the cross and his resurrection. We are saved by having faith in what we have heard. First we must hear the good news of Jesus' death and resurrection. Then we MUST believe, we must fully trust the Lord Jesus (fruits of trusting Jesus are we repent, our minds are changed about sin and calling on the name of the Lord).
Also, the word "Christian" has been so prostituted. A “Christian” is not a person who has said a prayer or walked down an aisle or been raised in a Christian family. A Christian is a person who has fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the ONLY Savior and therefore possesses the Holy Spirit (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9). Not everyone who calls himself a “Christian” has actually been born again.
According to Christian doctrine, salvation is “the deliverance, by the grace of God, from eternal punishment for sin which is granted to those who accept by faith God’s conditions of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus.” Salvation is available in Jesus ALONE (John 14:6; Acts 4:12) and is dependent on God alone for provision, assurance, and security. Children of God do not lose their salvation.
@@hapagirlinChristinHawaii Revelations chapter 2 and 3??? I didn't say second and third. I said Revelations 2 and 3. As in chapters.
Once saved always save is very satisfying. The truth doesn't please everyone. If we are saved by faith, we lose salvation once we forsake our faith. God gave us freedom of choice to believe him. He never force anyone to believe Him till the end. It's our choice to believe him till the end. Only if we believe Him till the end, we will be saved.
Oh really. How can a christian even be an effective witness for christ if they aren't sure they going to heaven. Another thing, At which point do you become unsaved? one sin five thousand sins. Peter denied Christ 3 times. Was saved unsaved, saved , unsaved lol.
@@markrimedio5085 Rome says one sin
You're part of a cult. Most of them keep their brainwashed "
@@markrimedio5085 As a catholic I can be sure im going to heaven as long as im acting my faith out. When i stop seeking forgiveness and participating in the worship and communion with the lord, then i know i am not saved. Faith is a process of working through love. Faith is not merely a profession of a factual statement. So it has nothing to do with how many sins i commit. Its about working my faith until i die.
REALLY TELL EVER ONE HOW,,,, YOUR ....JESUS REDEEMES THE SINNER AND THEN CUTS THEM OFF WHEN U SIN TO MUCH BUT MY JESUS CHRIST REDEEMES ME 4 EVER JOHN CH3 VS 15
John 10:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Beautiful verse. That does not prove once saved always saved.
@@philos_theos how so?
@@j_5244 Put the verse in context by reading the previous verse (John 10:27).
@@heymichaelc Looking at 10:27, I am reminded of 2 Timothy 2:19. "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." 10:27 would confirm this. God knows those who are his and no one can take them out of his hand.
@@j_5244 That's nice your reminded of other scriptures but your question was on John 10:28. It's also obvious God knows who are His. I don't think that's debatable.
I’m not catholic and it appears that Trent is wining this debate. He’s using a lot more scriptures to support his beliefs.
Regine Moyse because the Catholic Church which means universal was there since the first century and all the early church fathers taught what Trent Horn is saying. It’s only been last few centuries with thousands of church denominations turning up where they have come up with their own doctrines and interpretations.
George Ibrahim that’s true however, there a lot of teaching from the Catholic Church that’s not scriptural.
Bob Smith I understand where you’re coming from and it’s unfortunate that Christians have ruined the true meaning of being a Christian.
Regine Moyse yes it is all scriptural yet Martin Lurther had 7 books removed from the bible and wanted to remove book of James which he called book of straw and also wanted to remove revelations cause it didn’t suit his doctrines. It depends which lense you read the bible there are over 40000 different Protestant denominations now who all interpret the bible differently. Also no where in scripture does it say everything we are taught has to come from scripture directly, the bible actually says the church is the pillar of truth. Bible also says in
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
Another point I want to bring is there was no New Testament available till year 380 AD so early Christians were taught by Word of mouth and back in those days most people were illiterate. The Catholic Church actually compiled the bible they chose 27 books out of hundreds to chose from. All the early church Fathers were Catholic you should actually research them who were taught by the apostles. I would also suggest downloading the Catholic answers app on your smart phone and keeping an open mind a lot of information is given by former protestants such as Steve Ray, Tim Staples and Jimmy Akin, even this guy Trent Horn is on there
What Are Some Of The Implications Of Once Saved Always Saved?
1) Since we are ‘saved’, we can do what we want. It doesn’t matter what kind of sin we commit. We are still going to go to heaven.
2) We do not need to worry about helping our brothers and sisters remain faithful. "Hey, if they are saved, they will remain saved. We do not need to be our brother’s keeper."
3) We can ignore all the Scriptures warning us to persevere to the very end. We don’t need to persevere because if we are saved, we will remain saved.
4) We have a real false sense of security.
5) We never really know in fact if we are saved or not because if we do "fall away," we were never saved in the first place.
You have no clue as to what OSAS is & it really shows. The word idiot comes to mind reading your post! John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. So going by you, Jesus is a liar right?
You are right..no where to go out from the dark except for a small slit of light..this is the only way out, no other way out except for that slit light,that slit light is Jesus. Take it or you will die trapped inside that dark pit.you sin more or not your dead anyway.what is the point of not sinning , if sinning is not counted anyway.
Most people never give this a thought. But according to scripture, Isaiah 14:12-15, Satan lived in heaven as a perfect angel with God and then became jealous of God and was cast out of heaven to this earth. He then will eventually be cast into the lake of fire according to Revelation 20:10, and will be lost for eternity. So my question is, what gives us, mere mortal, sinful man the right to think that our salvation is eternally secure and that there is nothing we can do to lose our salvation and be lost, when one of God's Holy angels, who rebelled against God, will be lost? Something to seriously think about.
If one can lose his or her salvation we have no security. Are you placing your security on yourself? Are you calling the security of Christ allowing us to wear HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS a false security? I would hate to think I would live my whole life not knowing for sure if I was saved or not. That is a sad way to live. When it comes to sin. We don't need a license to sin. We all sin anyway. You sin ..I sin we all sin. We sin constantly in our thoughts. That is where Jesus upped the bar by telling the Pharisees if you even look upon a woman to lust you have already committed that sin of adultery. To show them that everyone sins. And no one can keep the law. He was trying to show them that they needed him.
You are correct. The OSAS, "eternal security" already "saved" crowd has mastered the art of denying all the warnings provided in scripture. Here's what Jesus and the apostles had to say about eternal security:
⚫ Luke 12:45,46: Jesus clearly warned what would happen to servants who returned to sin:
"But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers."
Once saved, always saved? Apparently not.
Sins "all paid for, past, present and future"? Apparently not.
That servant was going to pay for his sins himself.
We have many other warnings from Jesus, Paul and Peter.
⚫ John 15 verse 6:
"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (Jesus, in John 15:6)
It's amazing to me that anyone could conclude you're still "saved" after being "cast off as a branch" and "withered" and "cast into the fire" and "burned." Simply amazing. Jesus did not say "once a branch, always a branch."
⚫ Romans 11:19-22: The apostle Paul warned that Gentiles, even after being "graffed" into the "vine," could be "cut off" the vine, just as the "natural branches" - the Israelites - had been broken off:
"Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."
⚫ Hebrews 4:1: "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."
⚫ 1 Corinthians 9:24-27: The apostle Paul clearly refuted "once saved, always saved": he stated he could become a "castaway." Here's verse 27:
"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."
⚫ 2 Peter 2:20-22 If, after overcoming sin through knowing Jesus, a person then returns to sin, "the latter end is worse with them than the beginning."
"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
⚫ Hebrews 10:26,27 delivers the same warning about returning to sin:
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."
⚫ Hebrews 6:4-6 It IS possible to fall away, even after receiving the holy spirit! There would have been no point in writing the next passage if it were impossible to fall away:
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
⚫ Hebrews 12:14,15 We can "fail of the grace of God":
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;"
⚫ Revelation 3:5 and 22:19 Our names CAN be blotted out of the book of life:
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
⚫ 2 Peter 1:10,11 Here's another example of "if" with conditions:
"Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."
⚫ Heb 3:12-14 Another "if" with conditions:
"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"
⚫ Col 1:21-23 Another "if" with conditions:
"And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"
⚫ Romans 8:13 Another "if":
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
I used to believe in "Eternal security" or the "once saved always saved" doctrine, but the more I studied the scriptures the more i realised this wasn't the case, I realised how difficult it was to continue holding on to that doctrine, I do believe that a Christian can lose his/her salvation through apostasy and I think that worldliness and continual sin can eventually cause a Christian to turn their back on God and that's what I believe Paul was referring to when talking about "falling away" in Hebrews 6:6 and what Peter talks about in 2 Peter 2:20-22, (i do agree with James white about the forgiving of others though) but we have been clearly warned in scriptures about this matter.
4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, - Romans 4:4-5
3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing.
4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. - 1 Corinthians 5:3-5
"continual sin"... so you suggest that a christian can STOP sinning all together? if that's the case, you are contradicting the bible. We will still sin until we die(one way or another), not matter what, The difference is that we are now justified by faith. Our sins or not (Ephesians 2)" For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
I clearly says - NOT OF WORKS - we cannot "earn" our salvation. If we could, then Jesus died in vain.
The difference now is that WE LOVE GOD, and we DON'T WANT to sin. God will work and renew our inner person as long as we live, but we will never(on earth) be completed in holiness until we actually get our heavenly bodies where sin no longer abides. (Titus 3) "not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. "
@@johnpenaflor2662
The immoral man in 1 Corinthians 5:3-5 did not merely sin. He had adopted immorality as a way of life and was living in it as a practice of life. Paul told the Church to "deliver the man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, SO THAT his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
Paul never said the man was not saved or that he was a "false believer." Had that been the case, do you not think the Apostle would have told the Elders to instruct him in the true gospel and brought him to repentance and faith?
SO THAT (the conjunction HINA) shows a PURPOSE or GOAL.
In this case, the aim of their prayer was that he MIGHT BE SAVED This subjunctive form of the verb "saved" is used when the verb is merely POSSIBLE. This tells us that the man was not saved while he was living in sexual immorality.
Some of his brethren were in collusion with him in his sin apparently because they took an antinomian view of "grace" which is why Paul called many others in the Church to repent also
Bro non of us gets salvation by bieng the bible is clear its not by works of righteousness it is a gift from God, i dont know what is do hard ,how can you pay a debt that is already paid For in full,those who believe salvation is something one can lose obviously thinks Christ sacrifice was not suficient enough and now think its by there own strenght they Will now be saved ,hebrews 6 is a hypothetic situation where the author is saying if you can lose it then you can't get it back because it means jesus would have to die again and this Will not Happen because is one death was suficient..2Peter 2 os talking about false teachers and the church is Warned to be aware of there heresies
Saving faith is indeed the work of God, but it's up to you what you do with that faith. Free will remember James?
Andraž Kržič did you watch the debate? One of the things debated in the Reformation was the bondage of the will. It's not a given that we have free will to choose to be or not be Christ's sheep.
You need to watch the debate.
I'm sorry, but when exactly was it a choice for one to be part of the elect, one who is truly in the elect does what is pleasing in the sight of our father. We are to worship the lord with love, in spirit and in truth, the fact that false doctrine of losing salvation even exists should be exterminated, it's scaring new believers in Christ away, and I won't have it >
Free will is a man-centric pipe dream. You are not in charge!
God bless Trent Horn and James White
So in other words, James White’s opening statement in a nutshell is that “God will not fail to save me, His elect, but will fail to save you who believe on His Son Jesus but are not His elect.” Is that what you hear him saying? Correct me if I’m wrong. Thanks.
@@BingoNamo-gb8pz anybody who believes on the Lord Jesus is saved and therefore elect. You ok king?
@@jacobwoods614 did you listen to his opening statement? He said he does not support “synergists.”
@@BingoNamo-gb8pz I did but it was like a year ago. You never answered my question sir
That's why I like Trent Horn as Catholic Apologist, and a debater ...it must be the Holy spirit that is guiding him why he stays calm and confident and much respected every time he goes for a debate..God bless the Catholics and God bless you Trent...watching from the Philippines . 🙏😊✌️
Are you Saved?
ruclips.net/video/lrAjMMM-R4M/видео.html
Catholics hold many false belief my friend… repent
Christians are true believers who will never lose salvation and were sealed by the promised Holy Spirit till the day of redemption.
That just begs the question. Who is a "true believer" and a true Christian? You can't know, because you don't have infallible knowledge. Even under James White's rubrics, he can't know - because he believes in Calvinistic total predestination. So God could be lying to James White - in order to fool him into believing he's a saved Christian.
Doesn’t make sense. So you’re telling me if you commit a grave sin, you’re still saved?
@@Boston_CremePie
Sin is sin. Any amount of it cuts us off from God. That's why Jesus is necessary.
the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy again the holy spirit. (Rejecting him. Obviously if you reject the Holy Spirit you aren't accepting Christ.)
How powerful is God's grace? For by grace you have been saved, not works.
Christ only had to go to the Cross once. Not multiple times.
@@iSwiffer Greetings. I concur, Christ only had to go to the Cross once. Not multiple times, but the Bible warns Christians that they can fall from grace Gal. 5:1-5, be cut off from salvation Rom. 11:18-22 and have their names removed from the Lamb's Book of Life. God bless you
The devil is a liar..
I really like the fact that the catholic organization is open enough to open space for the formal debate
This is at a reformed conference... nothing catholic about it
Catholic organizations are way more open than reformed ones, maybe even too open.
I'm undecided. All I know is sin is serious, sin is real.
Same
@@stephaniebach__12-24 ya this topic bugs me out. Best to jus focus on him and seek him daily, and trust in him and know that he died for us and redeemed us of all our sins.. avoid Willfull sin and seek strength , joy, love, and no worry . I feel both these sides of debate cause ppl to worry and it’s really sad for me :( brings confusion..
@@thomihs Jesus said once to his disciples "do not let your heart be troubled. You believe in God believe also in me".
@@prayunceasingly2029 ❤️🤝
I think calvinism and Roman Catholicism are wrong. But they both get things right
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference.
Excellent!
Yuck
May God give u wisdom.
Serenity prayer 🙏
Where did you hear that?
I kept committing a specific sin that GOD was convicting me of and telling me to stop doing, I just kept ignoring him and trying to find any reason to say “naw that wasn’t GOD telling me to stop”. Then GOD told me I was going to hell if I kept choosing what I wanted over what he wanted for me and I did stop but ppl always tell me there is no way I heard GOD say that he would send me to hell over a sin but I know what GOD said……it wasn’t about the actual sin but the fact that I didn’t care to please and obey GOD, I was literally choosing what the enemy wanted for me over GOD because it was “fun”. GOD gave us free will for a reason……from the start when Adam & Eve sinned, they were immediately separated from GOD. If you decide to choose against GOD, he will let you but you will also suffer the consequences. It’s not about the sin being more powerful then what Jesus did for us, it’s about the free will that GOD gave us…..it’s your choice if you want the gift of salvation….
Good on you. I gotta ask, what was the sin ? You can be vauge.
@@jdizzle6324 smoking weed.
@@KaitlynFaye Yeah that was a stronghold in my life as well. Glad you saw the light. See you soon! 😇😇
@@jdizzle6324 same! See you on the kingdom!
Very simple for myself!
I almost lost it, but if not for the Grace of the LORD & a vision of Jesus himself I was dammed for sure. I was so far & misled that all hope was gone.
Praise the LORD for his Grace & Mercy!
Beware of false teachers , especially in the end times!
Its not worth loosing your soul.
MENE MENE TEKEL I had a vision but after i asked my mom I was only 10 and she told me Christians aren’t judged for sins and OSAS. now I’m 36 and realize I lost my chance
@@stephaniebarnes2119 it's never too late. You can get back the Holy Spirit. While there is air in your lungs you can return to God just like the prodigal son.
@@stephaniebarnes2119 turn to Christ
Ayy is your name Bantu?
@@stephaniebarnes2119 if you were truly saved Beloved you are sealed with the Holy Spirit Eph 4:30 no need to worry yes fear the Lord but don’t worry abt losing salvation if your among his sheep Jesus does no fail and he gives us ENTERAL LIFE AND WE SHALL NEVER PERISH
Jesus said the one who endures to the END will be saved!
A reference to those who are here on earth during the Tribulation AFTER the Church has gone in the Rapture.
It's all about dispensations and context.
@@michaelbarnes2478 I was too once an idiot and would hear these scriptures and say oh I'm doomed once saved always saved no one can pluck us out of the father's hand these people are on their way to hell and don't even know it
@@justinambrose4444 huh?
@@michaelbarnes2478 that’s right 2nd Timothy 2:15 will get rid of all the confusion. It’s all about rightly dividing the word of truth.
@@michaelbarnes2478 Except the Rapture doctrine came about by a woman in the 1800s. Up to that point is was NEVER taught. It is a lie of the Devil and cannot be demonstrated from the Bible.
Congratulations to Trent Horn.... God bless you!!!
@MyTwoCents
He win because Mr. White cannot read in the Bible "once save always save"
But Trent read the contrary....
Nothing can separate us from the love of God. Nothing and no one is strong enough to undo the saving that He has done. If He saves you, you are truly saved not just “maybe/hopefully saved!” You’re either saved, or you’re not!
Dr. White literally said he wasn’t defending “once saved, always saved” because he didn’t believe that. Did you any watch the video?
Trent Horn beat James White 💪💪💪
What's the point of creating hell lol???
Once saved always saved has a long history. It was “I’m circumcised therefore I’m saved”, then it was “I was Christened into the church therefore I’m saved”, now it’s “I was saved once so I’m saved forever whatever happens”
Eh. The current view on eternal security is that once you have a new heart, you have new desires.
The other things you mentioned were physical/ external.
A Christian CAN NOT BE ,,,,UN,,,, REDEEMED
All I have is my Testimony as proof~ I didn't know God, I didn't know Jesus until I was 49yrs old~
I laid down in the shower one morning, curled up in a fetal position, I cried out to God to help me. I gave up on my life that morning in Sept 2017. I was held in Divine Love and my mind was healed I felt God flowing into me. I believe it was the Holy Ghost that came upon me.
I went from wretched to transformed. I fell in Love, deeply, with a Father I didn't even know I had.
I then spent 3 yrs trying to answer why Christ?
I called out to Our LORD God, why did I need to say the words from Jesus?
I prayed ,I studied and although I understand what Jesus was delivering about forgiveness and Love. I agreed fully, but why couldn't we call to God to be saved? It's taken 3 yrs and in that 3 yrs Father has taught me why Christ. I believe it was God's way for me to know who I was Loving. So I can now say I Love my Heavenly Father with every ounce of my being and that I now know Him, through knowing who Christ Jesus is and why Christ Jesus. This is why over the last three yrs Our Heavenly Father has been cleansing me and no matter man's understanding, I would literally be physically sick if I thought I was hurting Him. I don't get things right but I know God holds me because that day He said He would never let me go. Father led me to overcome many things. Things I could not have done myself. If we hear Our Father He acts through us to become as Christ is. No part of me is here any more. I let this world go and live in Our Father completely as He lives in me. One day when it's His Will I will go home. Until then I will be patient and I have His Love to keep me in peace.
Please know that Our Heavenly Father's Love is truly amazing and Divine. No words to describe. Keep the Faith in Christ Jesus because when the Holy Spirit lives in you truly, He will guide you. I feel when I am not in Christ then Christ isn't in me. I know when that happens and I'm straight Into prayer. I'd rather walk in Christ than not. I don't think I would ever be left at all, Father said he would never let me go. I believe that. But when I'm not walking in the spirit I'm so not happy. Those are the times when I let fear in. That is satan coming in the back door or a crack in the window. Don't let him in. He will drag you down. When you fall be sure to take God's hand back up. He's always there. It's if we choose to hold His hand or not along the way.
Satan brings us down but our Lord God always always brings us up.
It's all for Our Heavenly Father's Glory in His children.
*Hallelujah*
*Emanu~El*
*With us~God Most High*
*El Shaddai*
*Peace unto us all*
🙌🏻🕊️💌🕊️🙌🏻🙏🏻
The road to salvation is a narrow path, but those who find it, and endure until the end, shall be saved.
@@ajlouviere202 Yours is a works based salvation....
@@maryanna682 Matthew 24:4-14: "4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
@@ajlouviere202 I agree....
"Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
@Bruce Bronson Bruce Bronson believing that there is one God does not mean that a demon believes the record that God gave of his son, and trusts in Jesus to save them. Demons don't want salvation, they aren't calling on the name of the Lord to be saved.
The last verse you quoted, when read in context, is saying we shouldn't have to keep revisiting the basic, elementary doctrines of the faith with someone, if they are exposed to the gospel, and come very close to getting saved, but never fully lock it in, and fall away, then that's it for them.
@Bruce Bronson Thanks! You didnt prove that we can lose Salvation,but you prove that there is POSSIBLITY of it,it doesnt prove anything of your point,in fact it makes God more glorified because he can Keep His people from All POSSIBLITY of losing! God is Strong!
Exactly,WORK OF GOD,and not WORK OF MAN'S FREE WILL :)
Always remember that believe is always a "continuous tense".
@@G95G95 now don't get butt hurt because he gave you the truth. You set yourself up by making a comment in this video if somebody tells you the truth and you don't like it bite it and go on.
To add a positive light amongst the heated debates. Both sides understand the importance of drawing near to God. Let us always come to God, ask for His forgiveness, and be brought together with our brothers and sisters in Christ. If we have doubt, then let us cry out to God to give us wisdom, strength, and faith. If we come to God and dwell with Him and earnestly search for Him and think about Him in all that we do, then we can have rest knowing we are in His arms. God knows the heart. Rest assured that if you truly believe and make effort to continue in a loving relationship, which parallels the image of what human families are supposed to be like, then we can be of assurance that God is caring for us just as he cares for all of His sheep.
Amen; true
Dr. White follows the Reformation blunders of Justification as a one time event and Grace as defined as imparting salvation with no expectations on the part of its recipient. And then confusing works of the Law or the flesh with those which proceed from an obedient faith walk. The interested Bible follower may find this series most enlightening. We are former evangelicals, by the way, not Catholics. Here is the link: ruclips.net/p/PLncffI965_jjUgPwFQEx4xMMx2lfLaRza
There is no need for debate, it is clearly prophesied in Jeremiah 30-33 The New Covenant of salvation is ETERNAL once received.
@@ricoparadiso final salvation does not occur on this earth so in context, what we have here can be lost. once we achieve final salvation, it can never be lost. it an important idea because so many verses have future tense salvation. ex. Matthew 10:22, Romans 5:9-10, Romans 8:23, Romans 13:11, 1 Thessalonians 5:8-9, Philippians 2:12, 1 Timothy 4:16, 2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 9:28, James 1:21, 1 Peter 1:5, 9, 1 Peter 2:2 to name a few. Take the warnings of scripture seriously brothers and sisters.
@Jerry Collins Son, you are horribly mistaken but let me just answer the question: Jesus is the Son of God.
I’m honestly undecided on this topic, however I do know that there is a true answer. Christians, let us not let this debate tear us apart and demean each other. Let us all be understanding and polite, and try to see each side of the argument.
This is not a mild question about whether we can eat shell fish or not. This is a question about heaven and hell. Jesus Himself also separates lambs and goats among all those who call upon His name. So Christians should be fighting to understand it. Being polite and trying to avoid offending people is never the way to the truth.
If Sola Scriptura is your final authority, then God has spoken about this. Catholics are not Sola Scriptura. They believe what the church and the traditions tell them.
Thanks, Hannah. I believe Jesus established the Catholic Church as the means for Salvation. With prayers...
God bless you +
@@MPFXT With all respect, that is false. Salvation is through Christ alone not a particular church that came 300 years later.
@@deniseadkins2901 Denise, when do you think the Canon of the Scriptures was determined? Did you know the Catholic Church defined that Canon?
With respect to your comment it reminded me of Matthew 16:18 when Jesus granted His binding and loosing authority, and the following passage,
John 8:13
13 The Pharisees then said to him, "You are bearing witness to yourself; your testimony is not true." †
The Truth Always Rises To The Top! James just so happened to be on the wrong side of truth in this debate!
Purgatory is a false belief. It's derived out of the Apocrypha that was written during a time of God's silence therefore it cannot be inspired. Purgatory isn't spoken of in the Holy Bible.
@@troyboodie1328No it wasn't. Post it.
I used to be a once saved always saved girl myself. Until the Lord convicted me and washed me from a lifestyle of sin. A once Born Again child of God gloriously filled with the spirit I fell back into sin and for 5 years was blindly living a life of sin all the while thinking that I was a child of God. I even went to church in this condition and once convicted it took me a YEAR for my eyes to fully be open to the height that I had fallen from.
The spirit of God began to minister to me and I began to see just exactly what had happened and why. This once saved always saved Doctrine was nothing more than a license to sin and live in it without conviction because the light had been removed and the spirit was absent! I was blinded once again in sin just as if I had never been saved... but I thought I was saved. as the spirit of God began to minister more and more I went to him in prayer and I said you have shown me the truth now show me what I can do. so here I am.
John 15 1-10Jesus clearly states that if a man remains in him bearing fruit then shall he be my disciples. He States every branch in me that bears no fruit is taken away and burned. He did not say once connected always connected there's a contingency based upon remaining in him. Remaining in the Vine. The problem that occurs is that folks do not remain in the Vine. When they don't remain in the Vine they do not produce fruits unto repentance scripture is clear that father God will cut it down and it is to be burned. This is parallel to what Paul spoke of in Hebrews chapter 6 and verse 8 in that which Bears thorns and Briars is rejected near to cursing whose end is to be burned.
2 Peter 2 amplifies this ..vs 20 for if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled and overcome the latter end is worse for them than the beginning for it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness then after they had known it to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them but this is happened unto them according to the true proverb the dog is turned again to his own vomit and the sow has returned to her wallowing in the mud.
Ezekiel 18:24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die"
Folks have been bamboozled by the once saved always saved lie. It's the same lie that Satan presented to Eve in the Garden of Eden. It's the same old tactic with a different label. Genesis 3:4 and the serpent said to the woman YOU SHALL NOT SURELY DIE for God does know that in the day that you eat thereof then your eyes shall be opened and you shall be as Gods knowing Good and Evil. In the same way this false Doctrine teaches sins are forgiven past present and future...it teaches no need for repentance or self-examination why, you are above sinning...past present and future sin is abolished. You've already received your crown!! Live as you like..when scripture is very clear from Isaiah 59 that sin is the number one thing that SEPARATES us from God. it neglects the fact that we need to have a clean conscience before God. It denies that we have to be ready waiting and watching for the Master's return. Ready waiting and watching requires self-examination and a repentant heart before the throne of grace. if you're once saved always saved you have no need to walk in holiness and without it the Bible says None will see the Lord. Once saved always saved is a cloak for sin when the Bible says to submit ourselves and humble ourselves and to crucify our flesh.
Once once saved always saved is quite possibly one of the largest deceptions and contributors to the great Falling Away spoken of in second Thessalonians 2 and 1st Timothy chapter 4. While it promises comfort and eternal security it is a false security and a very deceptive slippery slope AWAY from Christ and OUTSIDE of the vine to those who wrap themselves in it. You have no need of Him any longer! You've believed the lie! Jude explained this deseptive doctrine to perfection..For certain people have crept in unnoticed [just as if they were sneaking in by a side door]. They are ungodly persons whose condemnation was predicted long ago, for they distort the grace of our God into decadence and immoral freedom [viewing it as an opportunity to do whatever they want], and deny and disown our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
5 Now I want to remind you, although you are fully informed once for all, that [e]the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe [who refused to trust and obey and rely on Him
This Doctrine portrays only the love of God and it neglects the Holiness of God. God has not nor will he ever change for he has said I am the Lord I change not. One is either born again or they are not. They either have the spirit of God or they do not. if they are born again then they will not remain in their sin or continue in a lifestyle of sin and still have the Holy Spirit for the scriptures are very clear that it is sin that separates us from God.
A child of God will not run around and Tout that they are above falling, they fear God, humble themselves understanding that he REQUIRES abiding in him, faithful service and a commited life to overcoming the World the Flesh and the devil just as Christ did but also knowing and Remembering The Words of Christ that any man putting his hand to the plow and then turn back is not fit for the kingdom of God. They begin to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling just as Paul said. They walk in daily communion and obedience to the savior.
it's my prayer that anyone reading this would carefully consider through the lens of scripture where they stand. That they would examine the scriptures for themselves and let the spirit of God teach them and direct them and guide them into all truth. Jesus says straight is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life and few are found therein. once saved always saved is a very welcomed and famously preached Doctrine by many respected pastors but if you could have a bird's eye view into the throne room where they stand and give an account for what they have taught in error I'm sure one would shutter in fear...
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour..
1 Peter 5:8
That was an amazing read, thanks for writing it down.
The regenerated heart turns from sin and will not turn back into living in sin. Though we sin daily, we do not openly run back to it, for the Holy Spirit doing the work in us keeps us. I asked if a person did go back to a sinful lifestyle, was he regenerated?
God forknew us. This topic is one that we may never truly understand until the time that we know all things. All we can do is run to and trust Jesus and enter into His rest and stay in His will and continue to allow the Holy Spirit lead and guide us into all Truth.
You’re saying you “got saved” twice? “Born again, again?” No.
Either you were not saved, are still not saved, or were truly saved and unable to remain in sin by the Holy Spirit. Christians can commit gross sins, but they cannot continue to commit gross sins. They shall bear the fruit of repentance.
If you got saved for a second time, what this MUST mean is that Jesus’ blood, while enough to save you the first time, wasn’t enough to keep you saved. Also, that He needed to apply it again to you, because your sin once more overpowered His blood. This is a greatly evil thing to say.
You’re arguing that Jesus blood, though sufficient, is not effectual. Heresy. Trent and all Catholics cling to works salvation, not working faith. Heresy.
“Jesus is the end of your works.” You either believe that, or you don’t. If you believe that, you cannot believe salvation is lost.
You’re teaching that salvation is conditional, based on your will and actions. This is a heresy. “IF you do this, and this, and this, you’ll be saved, but only IF.” No.
Romans 10:9-10:
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
Once saved always saved is indeed a lie if what you mean is I can pray a prayer, believe I’m saved then live in sin until I die. No. Once truly saved, ye shall certainly be preserved by the effectual working of grace until Jesus returns.
I can promise you that you haven’t been saved twice, because that would mean Jesus’ blood wasn’t good enough the first time.
This is such a great and interesting debate. I come from a Protestant mother and a calthoic father so I take an unbiased approach when it comes to debate on doctrine, but this salvation one is the most important one in my opinion
@@rohan7224 If that was completely dependent on us, then we are all doomed. This is the problem with synergism. Even if God does 99.99% of the work, apparently our 0.01% affects the whole outcome. So basically this means man is above God, which is absolutely untrue. He is sovereign over His creation. He WILL drag His own across the finish line if He must, but He will NOT be frustrated.
@@douglasmcnay644 If what you say is true, then we have no free will. The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant shows what happens to someone who will not forgive when all has been forgiven him.
I'm thankful for the Catholic Church.
Amen... Be perfect as your Heavenly Father is Perfect.
@@douglasmcnay644 That's why we need Jesus and the Church He founded for the fullness of Truth and Grace.
Salvation is of the LORD!
And faith is not a work. Free will theology does not diminish God’s role in salvation.
For those who obey Him.
"God who created you without you will not save you without you, because it is always possible for any of us, you or me, to have the misfortune of rebelling against God, of rejecting Him through his conduct or even to exclaim: we do not want him as king."
This is what St Augustine says about the possibility of loosing your salvation. So yes you can loose your salvation according to the Bible e.g. the parabol of the prodigal son who goes out of the house of the Father and came back.
Also according to the Church Tradition as it have been shown by this citation of St Augustine
it's beautifully simple, as Jesus put it: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3: 6
@SwordOfTheKingdom You are correct. We will be born again - born of the spirit - when we actually receive immortality at Jesus' return. Only Jesus has been born again or born of the spirit. In a conversation with Nicodemus, Jesus described what it is like to be born of the spirit:
⚫ "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." (John 3:8)
No one today who claims to be "born again" is like that. But Jesus was like that after His resurrection. He was able to move invisibly, like the wind. He could suddenly appear and disappear where the disciples had gathered. He had been resurrected with an immortal, spirit body.
When He returns, those who have died "in Christ" will also be resurrected with an immortal, spirit body. Paul described this in 1 Corinthians 15:42-54. Jesus was the "firstfruits"; those who die in Christ will also receive immortal spirit bodies at their resurrection when He returns:
⚫ "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." (1 Corinthians 15:23).
Jesus told Nicodemus
⚫ "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6). *_You can't be both at the same time._*
After being born of God at Jesus' return, we will not be able to sin. But in this mortal life we are able to sin; we have not yet been born of God. But if we have received God's holy spirit, we have been *_begotten_* of God. Here's John, illustrating the difference:
⚫ "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)
SwordOfYHWH we are already born again in this earth death is just a little disruption
Contextually, your verse only applies to initial salvation. There are many verses in the bible that a Christian needs to grow in Spirit. "You must be perfect as the Father is perfect."
SwordOfTheKingdom so are you suggesting that a person who is saved, has not been born again?
John Chrysostom Do you realize that when you are born again, when you are saved, when you’ve believed in the Gospel, your life is hidden in Christ? Meaning... your righteousness comes from Jesus. Your perfection, comes from your faith in Jesus, not your works.
Once you make up a concept like "prescriptive" vs "descriptive" to make words say something they do not say, you have lost the debate. I'm a reformed protestant Christian, but I found Trent Horn much more convincing...
You’re a reformed protestant and yet you think James white made up the concept of the two wills of God?
People just don’t realize just how NARROW the way truly is, and those who are his in obedience will endure till the end!
Well they want to hold hands with Satan while they're walking with Christ. That's free will while they're out here fornicating getting drunk committing adultery etc etc etc etc etc etc. Wouldn't miss be the stupidest thing in the entire world to think that you could have children be saved and then one day chop them up and throw them in a refrigerator and they're still going to inherit the Kingdom.
I agree with you the way is indeed narrow. Our Messiah taught us to enter through the narrow gate for straight is the path and narrow is the gate that leads to life and there are few who FIND IT. I take that to mean WE have to find the narrow gate because he's not going to tell us where it is.
Amen! Philippians 1:6
That is then a works based salvation and your not trusting in Jesus finished work on the cross but in your own good works. If you trust your own righteous works your going to hell. Turn to Jesus trust him and you will be saved. Good works come from salvation not the Opposite.
@@noulto7744 If you trust Jesus Christ and keep that in Faith in Jesus Christ by doing good works that is never works based salvation nor If you do good works in Love that is not works based salvation either in fact when you do good works it's not you who does it it is Christ Himself in you for you have faith in Him and Obeyed Him! faith without obedience is never faith at all. So you see it's never faith alone at all this is not taught in the sacred scriptures.
I think whether you’re saved or not depends on the persons heart. And only God knows some ones heart.
ruclips.net/video/QIjoCE1QV94/видео.html
Absolutely and that’s what the Catholic Church always teaches... the examination of conscience.
Marie W 777 Lol very convenient for you to say that eh? Are you a Catholic? I don’t think so...
Marie W 777 Do you hate Mother Mary? Would be kinda awkward when you get “Saved” and see her in Heaven or You talk crap about Jesus’s very own mother on the Day of Judgement... think his gonna like that?
Marie W 777 Great wonderful, where does it say Bible Alone? Also as a former “Catholic” what to think of Our Lady of Fatima? Bible Cleary talks about that... in Revelations
Nice.🎉 Well done, Trent Horn. 👏🏻You did present gracefully.
Continue to abide and persevere till the end.😊
I really like how, in James' rebuttal, he addressed several of the scriptures that Trent brought up. Rarely that happens when I watch debates.
This is what debate should be.
@Jerry Collins Where exactly did you get all of this info? Also you seem to be all over the place.
Who do you say the redeemer is?
@Jerry Collins I read what you wrote but you did not specify WHERE you got your theology from. You state "the Bible" but you pervert the text and have come to a conclusion that cannot be derived from the text itself. All I can tell is that maybe you have read into some of the Egyptian texts? This is still unclear.
Additionally, do you believe you are one of the saved? One of the chosen seed or are you doomed to hell like everyone else outside of that seed?
@Jerry Collins What I mean is, there's nothing in the OT that speaks of John living in a Ferry house, so where did you get that information?
@Jerry Collins Is there a way I can contact you in person? This is a quite a tedious means of communication.
I’ve come to the conclusion that Arminians see salvation as a very linear process, stuck in the world’s time, while calvinists can see it above time and in the scope of God which who is outside of time, who already knows who will abide and persevere.
Foreknowledge is not election.
I'm saved! I'm saved! I had an emotional tingle at a revival meeting and I'm saved, saved, saved! Not only that, I believe in once saved always saved, so now I can sin all I want and still be saved! All the booze, all the broads, all the dope I want---I'm still saved as I can be! Hallelujah, brethren!
"So long as he maintains faith in Christ a man can commit a thousand murders and a thousand adulteries a day and still go to Heaven."
--Martin Luther
When we get born again we have new desires we don’t want to do all those things anymore. I see you believe you can lose salvation for sinning. Well since your mocking and lying saying your saved looks like you have lost your salvation.
To be saved is to have faith in Christ. To have faith in Christ is to understand that he is your authority and when he says “if you look upon a woman with lust, you have sinned in your heart” and you fight against this sin and not rejoice in it. You are confusing faith with belief since even devils believe God exists but they don’t have faith in Him. Faith is realizing and seeing the wickedness in you for it is our sin that put to death our Lord Jesus. It is seeing this wickedness in contrast to an all loving God that suffered hell on that cross for your sake. And as a result of this God given faith, your heart is utterly changed and you no longer love sin as you once did. Instead you hate it because it put to death our loving God. To be saved is to be completely changed by a faithful God, and as a result of our salvation good works arise. Our problem isn’t the fruit, but the roots and because of God our roots have been changed from ones that bore no fruit to ones that bore much fruit
Christ died on the cross and drank the cup of God’s wrath because He knew we CANNOT stand alone against sin. For if salvation can be lost because of sin then we are all in danger because we stand weak against it as proved by the stories of the Old Testament. If even the great David committed adultery and murder, who is safe from sin. NO ONE. What’s the difference between Peter and Judas, both men rejected Christ and both men felt convicted of their sin. One man had faith and the other didn’t, for both were sinners but only one accepted God as the authority
Anyone who claims the Grace of God makes them want to sin more was never saved at all. Sin is bondage and death to us. The Bible says the law is the strength of sin. Trying to live a Holy life within ourselves makes us sin more. knowing that it is a Free Gift that we can not earn gives us a new outlook on life. Jesus said the one who is forgiven for more will love more.
George penton: it seems that you haven't even watched this debate but commented right after reading this debates address. Pastor James white already refuted such idea which you stated from the very beginning of this debate's opening.
Arrogant people usually view themselves as superior and never admit their mistakes. James White was saying Jesus will not fail and Trent Horn agreed with him. What Trent Horn was saying is that WE can fail (not Jesus) by our own will and loose our salvation which is relevant to the topic and supported many times in the Scripture. Paul himself was not assured of his salvation when he said in 1 Cor 9:27, “I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.” Is that humility or arrogance on the part of Paul? What about you who think you are assure of Heaven at the same time hating other people? You look silly when you try to defend something that is false teaching unknown the first 1500 years of Christianity.
Not if you don't forgive. Unforgiveness voids out our own forgiveness we received from God through Jesus. If we don't forgive we are not forgiven and if we die in that sin we will NOT enter the kingdom of heaven. For to not forgive someone and yet have the gall to expect God to forgive us is lifting ourselves about God. In any case FORGIVE or we will not find forgiveness even IF we were saved and forgiven at one time.
It says in Hebrews that once someone is exposed to the truth, how can they give it up? Therefore if someone has tasted the Truth and rejected it, there is no hope for his soul.
Therefore is there for a reason. Context. What does the first 5 chapters talk about
@@solafide6647
Why don't you make your point instead of leaving it up in the air?
Nothing is impossible with God.
I marvel that you’re searching in “Hebrews” for “Christian” doctrine.
Romans 8:1
King James Version
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are IN Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
@@TheWordofTruth1611
I marvel that you do not do not understand that if Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians it is applicable to Gentile Christians as well. There is only one gospel that has the power to save both Jews and Gentiles. Hebrews speaks much about Jesus and His role in redemption and even His deity.
There is also no DAMNATORY SENTENCE hanging over the heads of those who are abiding IN Christ Jesus and who are "walking not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." This is not true for anyone who has abandoned the faith and is no longer abiding in the Vine.
can someone lose salvation.. is not the proper question... because it sounds like the blame is off of the person themself , and thats the problem
I have messed up in life after becoming a Christian
and I had to look at that sin that I was in and seen that repentance does not mean continuing to sin but rather change My mind and My behavior and My direction to leave the sins alone not practice it and say once saved always saved
I believe GOD wants us to live like Him inside of JESUS CHRIST Name the way that happens is being thankful that Jesus died for all my sins and not taking it lightly take notice My life and pick up My cross and follow JESUS
I believe Jesus is enough
I believe Jesus salvation is 100%
I believe that we can back slide away from the word of GOD
I believe we need to be formed and shaped by GOD through HIS HOLY SPIRIT in JESUS CHRIST NAME
I love White but in this debate,White wants the bible to follow his calvinists teachings.Thats sad.
The same thing I think
Agreed
I received my salvation because of his great LOVE for me! And NOTHING can separate His LOVE for me! NOTHING !!!!!!! Hallelujah!!!! Praise Jesus our Lord and Savior!
God loves the whole world, is the whole word saved? John 3:16
You @@DannyLoyd
Graceful presentation by Trent
The question of losing something is irrelevant, imo. The question should always be are we ready for His coming. Rev.21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. The church is not ready and will lose out unless we return to the old paths, Heb.12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. I could care less how eloquent the men speaking here are, or their range of knowledge, are they Born again? Most of those who have a career in the circuit and pulpits could use the same skills selling cars. And I think they would please God more if they preached the Gospel rather than trying to be famous in the backslidden church world, IMHO.
That should be everyones question, A I ready for Christ return.
Selling cars! How can you tell if a car sales person is lying? If their lips are moving, their lying!
@Redeemed this question is always going to be out there and it's always going to be a sin question. There are always going to be people out here that want to hold on to their sin. And they're always going to say they're free and clear to sin, but really are they. I know salvation isn't granted to the wicked and I know who the wicked are.
There have been several comments made about eternal life being Eternal which we all agree on. What is being confused is that eternal life and eternal damnation are the two choices that we face because all of us will have eternal existence. We will exist eternally in the second death or exist eternally in life.
The real issue is is that if you can come to Faith in this life in Jesus then because of your free will choose against him and lose Jesus and your faith. The answer in Scripture overwhelming yes.
In Scripture it says that those disciples that could not understand the teaching that Jesus was the bread of Heaven and rejected this teaching went back to the old way of life.
Remember they were Disciples of Jesus followers of Jesus they rejected this teaching therefore rejected Jesus and the faith that Jesus had taught them.
They were with Jesus they had come to Faith in Jesus then rejected the teachings the faith in Jesus and Jesus himself and walked away. So the teaching is clear you can come to Faith In Jesus and of your own free will walk away from Jesus. Jesus never moved.
It's not your salvation to lose.
filoIII. God will always be faithful but we will not.
What Exactly does "Salvation" mean to You, filolll?
Hell is a Catholic book by Dante.
Yeah Trent Horn definitely one this debate. He was able to refute all of James White's arguments. James White likes to use a lot of red herrings in his debates. He kept on trying to change the debate to be about sola fide, however Martin Luther affirmed sola fide and still believed that you could lose your salvation. He also likes to misrepresent the Catholic Church's theology, by saying that they don't believe that grace is sufficient, when in fact the Catholic Church does teach that grace is sufficient. James White is such a bad apologist, that he actually helped me leave Calvinism and become Catholic. He made me research his misrepresentations of Catholicism, only to realize what he was saying about the Catholic Church were lies. He made me realize that the Catholic Church was the early church, and the church that Jesus founded.
I would say that White is a very articulate speaker and master of red herrings !!
To believe that we could lose our salvation is absolutely terrifying to me. What if I don’t do enough? What if I sin too much? How much is too much? How far away from God is TOO far away from God? Is God mighty to save or is He not? So many questions!!
So many questions, but the Catholic church holds so many answers!
Here's a video that might answer a few of them for you, I hope it is helpful :)
ruclips.net/video/G6KDiOh_Pn8/видео.html
We need to trust in Jesus. Only he is faithful and just and can save to the uttermost. "God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind". Rest in his promises. Just keep pressing on in your walk w/ God. All that is required is that we trust him to continue to produce good works through us.
The more I look at Catholicism though, there is no end to what we have to do, and even then, we are still on a treadmill of getting behind for punishment for temporal sin. It lasts into the next life w/ purgatory too, which is not a biblical teaching. It is not that Catholics cannot be saved, but they are robbed of being able to trust that they are.
It’s a terrifying thing I agree. If I could lose my salvation, I’ve already lost it a million times. Heartbreaking 💔
James Whites' own sister converted to the Catholic faith. Watch her first post conversion interview ruclips.net/video/fJQe-lTnErU/видео.html
Probably the Vatican II cult and not the genuine Catholic Church, which is almost extinguished today
Pray for that lost lady
No she didn’t lol she had always been a Catholic.
@@tyc4587 she WAS lost and now she’s Home.
@@littleone1656 Catholicism isnt home
We are saved by grace and kept by grace. Add anything to grace anytime disgraces grace.
That's a colorful opinion but not at all biblically accurate 🤦♂️. Titus 2:11-14 defines grace
@@philarevolutionarywarriorp8295
Titus 2:14 who gave Himself for us TO redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own POSSESSION, zealous for good deeds.
Thank you so much for the Verses! it proves that Jesus died to redeem,not to offer,there is no just 1 verses in bible say that God OFFER Salvation!
@@philarevolutionarywarriorp8295 Paul call Believer and God's elect As "All"
Romans 8:32-33 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us ALL, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
Who will bring a charge against God's ELECT? God is the one who justifies;
Thank you so much buddy 🤦🏻♂️ 😚
@@ManlyServant Are you a Jehovah's witness?? Bc according to your posts EVERYONE is saved, regardless of how they act or live!
So I guess by that logic.. if a mobster (mafia member) who orders hits(has people killed), engages in loansharking, steals, intimidates, etc; goes to church one day, says a "sinners prayer" and accepts Jesus - can just go on being a mobster (remain in the mafia). Because nothing he does now can exclude him from salvation, bc if it DID grace would be conditional! So forget all the warnings of
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Galatians 5:19-21
Galatians 5:4
Ephesians 5:5-7
Revelation 21:8,
Etc, bc they don't apply! They're just silly, inconvenient verses meant to ignore!! 🤗
Wow 🤦♂️. How foolish the hyper-grace garbage REALLY is.
@@philarevolutionarywarriorp8295 But the Calvinist position is that true believers will not sin with the purpose to never repent. Your works are measured by the faith you have in Jesus. Are you really sure you want to call God's grace garbage? I mean do you seriously think God's grace has no impact on the individual at all once they feel it? Is God's grace infinite or finite? If God's grace is finite than are you worshipping the one and true God? If God's grace is infinite can't we assume that God's grace will overwhelm our rebellion and resistance to his Holy Spirit and make us by our choice to repent and have a relationship with him?
Saved by grace through faith, not of works, lest any man boast. Works are a product of our faith. Faith without works is dead. God's word doesn't contradict itself, people do.
I grew up with the teaching that you can lose your salvation.
25 years later God opened my eyes.
So do you now believe you can never lose it?
Praise God
If anything you closed your eyes. John 3;18 makes it clear.
Believe = saved
Do not believe = unsaved
So if someone who at first believes, now does not believe, they are no longer saved.
If someone does a reverse Paul, and leaves the faith then starts killing believers, do you TRULY believe that person is saved? Do not deceive yourself. As long as you abide in Christ you have salvation.
@@christsavesreadromans1096paul says that means they were never a believer to begin with
@@yourwifesboyfriend5785 Then why did he warn believers of not inheriting the kingdom of God?
It is impossible to live without Sin.
Romans 3 : 10
As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one."
There is a big difference between sinning occasionally and sinning habitually(e.i. living in sin). Paul wrote to the church in Galatia that those who live according to the flesh shall not inherit the kingdom of God(Gal. 5: 19-21).
Indeed John said, "If we say, 'we have not sinned,' we make God a liar and his word is not in us." But if we make sinning our "profession," then I don't think that we will inherit the kingdom of God. Let me explain what I mean with making sinning a profession or habitually sinning and occasionally sinning.
When my niece was in high school, I used to teach or tutor her some math like algebra and trigonometry. But occasionally teaching my niece math didnt make me a math teacher. To become a math teacher I would have to take education major in math and then teach math regularly. It's a deliberate effort on my part.
Hebrew 10: 26-29 says, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of truth, no sacrifice for sin is left but only a fearful expectation of Judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who trampled the Son under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that has sanctified him and who insulted the Spirit of grace. Take note, the writer of Hebrew includes himself of the possibility of keep on sinning. Hebrew 6: 4-6 speaks also of falling away after some has reached a certain level of spirituality.
I would think there are exceptions
Theres a lot of sin. A sin that u didnt intended. Like self defense and u accidentally kill a man.
Cyrus the yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. - Galatians 2:16
@Shameless Papist what is the love of God? He so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son...what is Gods love...scripturlly...hmm?
paul said to fight the good fight! So why fight if we can't loose it?
Good fight is continue believing never abandon your faith in the Lord because it gives salvation
Exactly! fighting for what you can’t lose is not fighting at all.
joe moya “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2:4 KJV
“(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)”
2 Corinthians 6:2 KJV
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But does that mean that God can lose?
I think there’s a logical fallacy there. You can lose if you don’t fight. You can’t lose if you do. Make sense?
We can suffer loss of our rewards and a fellowship with God. But not our relationship with God due to the shed Blood of Christ Jesus as our atonement.
"Loose our reward" is no where written in the Bible. That nonsense has been debunked long time ago.
@@mikky4712 but I know this no one's debunked whether a person can't lose salvation or not. Because I know they can. I know if a person is in sin there are other father the devil. That would make them lawless like the lawless one. Hallelujah.
Trent thank you for providing all the verses.
Which verse? Did you exegete the verse he uses?
@@sanjoeamaranto1044 does it need to be when it was clear as the sky is?
@@Rob-mr1vk laid it down..
@@Rob-mr1vk Yes, it does actually. Lol
@@Rob-mr1vk I am wondering if you are watching b4 asking.
People are so interested in the sacrifice Jesus made for us but not as many people are willing to sacrifice back for him and pick up our cross daily as he commands us to do.
Trevor Bostwick but now you're suggesting that salvation is something one earns. That's in direct contradiction to Romans 4 and the book of Galatians.
SamOwenI so I guess it is a contradiction in which actually we are not to pick up our cross because it is working.
Besides in order to say it is earning, there must first be a level you must reach to finally say, “I have earned it”. It isn’t the same as if : I worked five weeks to earn 1,000 dollars to buy a motor scooter of some sort.
In the scripture’s case, it is that you already have the scooter as a gift, and if you don’t want it, you can give it away, and you do not have to take care of it if you decide not to. Therefore you keep the scooter if you please, but the giver (as of biblical scenario )is not going to force you to keep it and care of it.
"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."- Romans chapter 4 verses 4 to 8.
"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."- John chapter 6 verses 28 to 29.
Believe in Jesus Christ and you shall have everlasting life! Jesus loves you! Get a king james bible and believe.
Read Matthew.
Read Acts chapter 4.
Read Ephesians chapter 2,5.
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SamOwenI All Paul’s teaching comes down to this: Our own works can never justify us, but works that grow out of faith in Christ are part of our justification. That’s why Paul says in Philippians 2:12 you must "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
I will offer my Rosary for your conversion, Dr White.Ave Maria.Jesus I love you.
Maria Teresa idolatry
This isn't a fair debate, Trent has a much more defensible position
Because Dr. White has theology that is only a couple hundred years old while Trent Horn has one that is thousands years old. Dr. White needs to disprove the older and more widely believed belief.
I CAN END IT FOR YOU CAN A TRUE CHRISTIAN EVER BE ,,,,UN ,,,REDEEMED ?THE ANSWER IS NO
“If you could lose your salvation, you would.” - John MacArthur
Amen to that I completely agree. If it were up to me I would’ve lost it ages ago
Jerry Collins haha cool
It's truth.
David Homans
Sounds like you wanna lose it
Nice quote. But it's not biblical.
Jesus does say His sheep stray, however He will leave the 99 for the one who strayed
Jesus' teaching on the lost sheep was intended to show the Shepherd's love for each individual sheep. This love motivates His efforts to bring them back into the fold. It shows that sheep CAN go astray, "each one following after their own way," and get lost. Although it is a popular to say Shepherds "broke the legs of wandering sheep and carried them on their back" this is a myth invented by imaginative teachers in relatively modern times. In reality, breaking a sheep's leg would terrify an animal already prone to fear. It certainly would not build a BOND OF TRUST between the sheep and their Shepherd.
Besides that it would be utterly impractical if not impossible to carry a heavy sheep. LAMBS can be carried if necessary but, generally speaking, lambs stay close to their mothers…11 He tends His flock like a shepherd; He gathers the LAMBS in His arms and carries them close to His heart. He gently LEADS the nursing ewes.
(Isaiah 40:12)
free.messianicbible.com/feature/yeshua-came-good-shepherd/
He "gathers the LAMBS" in his ARMS while He LEADS the nursing ewes.
Jesus said he went to the "Lost sheep of Israel" Not all of these who had been the elect came back to God. If they did return they did so by listening to Jesus, believing His gospel and FOLLOWING Him home. In fact, a person is a sheep precisely because they listen to His voice and follow after Him.
@Jerry Collins Huh?That's a lot of words you say but confusing
Missy Woo “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2:4 KJV
“(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)”
2 Corinthians 6:2 KJV
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I was one of those, astray.
He got me back. I'm staying put.
He will leave and fetch the stray sheep - not abandon the prior 99 sheep if they are on the right path.
"Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus replied, “What is impossible with man is possible with God" (Luke 18:26-27).
Man, because of his flesh that he still resides within, even though he is saved, does not have the ability or power within himself to keep himself saved. God, through the power of the Holy Spirit, keeps a man saved, man cannot keep himself saved. "To Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy" (Jude 1:24). Salvation is of the Lord from beginning to end. "For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified" (Romans 8:29-30).
Deacon John so if we kept sinning willfully our whole life after believing at age 10 we believed in vain and are not elect? I’m just realizing the truth but it’s too late
@@stephaniebarnes2119 You are still an elect of God.
Amir Rama that’s y I don’t think I was a true Christian I lived in sin too much not fighting it or feeling grieved just guilty but thinking I was a Christian. I know I have no chance now
@@stephaniebarnes2119 Do you have faith inJesus Christ,if you have then you are saved.Do not look at yourself but have faith in God, through Jesus Christ.These Scriptures will help Hebrews 11:1,6
Romans 10:8-11
John 15:3
John 8; 34-36
2Corinthians5:16-21
Romans 4:5-8
Romans 9:30-32
Romans 10:4
Romans 11,1,5-6
Galatians 2:16,20
Galatians, 3:8-10
Ephesians 1:4
Colossians 1:21-23
Jude 3,5
Psalms 16:3
Stephanie Barnes - you have a minute to fix that? believe on Christ and Christ crucified. that’s it! 🙏🏼
Ladies and gentlemen, thank God for this learning platform
What did you learn Mathew?
If that dude really knew Jesus, he wouldn’t be wearing that bow tie
If OSAS is true and one can never lose their salvation once they are saved/born again, then the apostles and the millions of people over the centuries did not know it. They all died terrible deaths for Christ for no reason.
They could have just renounced Jesus when they were threatened, saved their lives in the moment of distress, gone away to safety, and then continued their beliefs and their ministries later. Jesus could have prevented a lot of needless deaths by just telling people to deny Him when threatened and then go back to worshipping Him when it was safe again to do so.
If one could never lose their salvation once saved, then one could deny being a Christian when their life, job, or anything else was threatened. So if OSAS is true then millions of Christians suffered and died terrible deaths for their faith and they did not need to.
This is ridiculous, plenty of Calvinists were martyrs. You’re describing the Arminian concept of OSAS, not the Reformed doctrine of perseverance of the saints.
@@chancewilson6256 The doctrine of original sin invented by Augustine is not biblical.
Hebrews 10:26
King James Version
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Exactly. If you go back to the law then you don't have faith in Christ and there is no atonement for your sin. That verse you quoted is speaking to the Jews who wanted to go back to the law.
Bro, this was talking about the Jews that were still holding onto the sacrifice of bulls and goats for the remissions of sins. After they were preached Jesus, if they sinned, their sacrifice was no longer valid to God because Christ was the sacrifice that did away with bulls and goats.
Just look at the name of the book your reading: Hebrews. That whole book is written to Jews that have not accepted Christ.
@@crewsmitty4495 Go back to the Law of God.... You are saying that like it's a bad thing. You don't want to obey God? No obedience doesn't save, because perfect obedience is required and that, Only the Son was able to do. So our faith is in Him. But our obedience, our fruit our good works, according to obeying the Torah, is the proof of our Faith.
@@SG-jv5zi was the law here to save man?
Of course. His death was the only sacrifice. We can't look for another sacrifice.
I just hope people who think you can "lose" your salvation do not try and bring people to Christ before deathbed, because in that case they will have the least possibility to "lose" it. :-)
You must prove the assumption that losing salvation is an ‘anytime forfeit of grace as you sin’.. That is just a presupposition, that it has to happen that way when you can lose your salvation.
There is a very simple problem with the dogma of “once saved, always saved.” That problem is that it is just not biblical! The truth is, the dogma of “once saved, always saved” is part of the doctrines and commandments of men. Consider Matthew 15:1-20; Mark 7:1-23 → Galatians 1:6-20 and II John 1:7-11!
AMEN!!!
"The fruits of your labor
you will reap in The End."
What you may believe
is so very into nothingness really
for you don't determine what GOD WILLS.
"Stay" in mortal lane Mr. White.
James White believes in his WORKS, NOT the COMPLETED WORK OF JESUS CHRIST!!! SAD...
@@BobbyORiley Amen!
The book of revelation says your name could be erased from the book of life.
Calvinists say, you cant.
Who do we believe?
Your name can only be blotted out if you abandon your faith in the Lord and nothing else.
David Ochieng
Okay, so it can be blotted our right???
@@RGTomoenage11 If I will hold on to my faith until I die,then I have my salvation.Why should I abandon my faith in Jesus Christ?Nothing.
David Ochieng
I agree with you but you and I know that there is people that does.
@Bob Smith Do you know what that tells me? Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. That God is in control. You need to feared the Lord and be respectful of Him. As the scripture declares in Matthew 12:36 "...That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." Hebrews 10:31 " It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God".
The Lord saved Israel and delivered them from Egypt, their wicked ways can crawling back worshiping idols and dishonoring God lead to their destruction in the wilderness. None of them entered the promised land. The once saved always saved doctrine is a false teaching inspired by the devil himself to lead God's people astray. God said He is holy and you shall also be holy. If a murderer repented and believed in Christ Jesus and accepted Him into his heart and got saved, 5 years later he goes back murdering people, do you think he is still saved?
If someone COULD LOSE their Salvation, then EVERYONE IS DAMNED!
@@BobbyORiley I agree, brother! God bless you!
Everyone is damned, that is why the Gospel is good news
we cannot lose it?..now i can tell my friend its okey to suicide.
vergil dante please don’t do that, tell him to seek help. Believe in the Lord and don’t lose hope my friend. God bless you in Jesus Name Amen!
Thenks
What can separate us from the love of Christ. A husband doesn’t abandon his wife if he truly loves her. Christ is the head of the church and the church is HIS BRIDE. He will sanctify all of those who make up His bride for His glory and pleasure!
❤
The love of Christ/God and salvation are 2 completely different things. God loves all humans he created. Does that mean they're all saved and going to heaven?? 🤔
Well, sin technically seperates us from Christ' love, and rather It's us abandoning christ rather than christ abandoning us. See where Christ talks about cutting the branches off that don't produce fruit
I think that it's a matter of semantics. Someone who starts out in the faith then makes spiritual shipwreck can either be described as someone who had salvation and lost it or as someone who never had salvation to begin with.
Define spiritual shipwreck
The issue is (and basically every issue) is that something that looks at face value to be semantics, becomes a cornerstone of an entire denominational worldview because they need that semantic to justify something else (the real point they want to make).