MCP is a GREAT game but its minis are really only suitable for this one thing, and there are a ton of other really good games calling for my attention as well. Shatterpoint was DOA for me, and I can't be the only one, because of AMG's very strange decision to lead with a series of little-known characters from some ancillary kids' cartoon.
Maybe I've missed it, but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts about Corvus Belli's business model. They seem to have one of the more ideal release setups where things constantly come out, but it isn't overwhelming. I know you sell Infinity, what do you think about them?
Hey! Something that I can comment on with a personal perspective. My main game is MCP. I really enjoy the mechanics and the characters, but I only really buy, paint and play with characters that I personally like and it works out well for me. I don't feel a need to own everything and I'm not a huge shop or tournament player, I just don't have the time, but I do have the time to play with friends at one of our places. I truly believe that it's a great game and people should give it a look even if Marvel isn't the biggest draw. Then there's Shatterpoint. I started in this hobby wanting to play a "Star Wars Kill Team". Thinking that it would come eventually I bought into Legion and still have around 600 points of Empire. Turns out I don't like large scale war games and just stopped playing. When Shatterpoint was announced I was excited, thinking this was surely the "Star Wars Kill Team" I wanted and after watching a few batreps from AMG I decided to buy it. Nothing but regret since then. I find the game so boring, nothing happens. You can't really take out any models, so attrition is not really an option, then it's just hanging out around a token trying to control it. In MCP you have an extraction objective as well, and attrition is always an option. The characters are all variations on the same skills and abilities that were in the core set. You want to play another game mode? That's $15 and it's the same game type, but the layout is different and there's some randomness thrown in. I'm not a fan at all, never bought beyond the core set and an extra set of dice and I'm considering selling. They have announced Legion Spec Ops awhile back which might actually be the "Star Wars Kill Team" I wanted, but it's still just a side project and not a real thing they're pushing. I think you're spot on with the fact that when they focus on one game, all the others suffer. Spec Ops could be just what I'm looking for, but it's bare bones right now and doesn't seem important to them, because of that I don't feel like putting effort into spending my rare gaming time on it. Instead I play more MCP and paint new MCP models. I'm also looking into other games: Kill Team, Deadzone, Warcrow, Relicblade mostly because as primarily a hobby hero I spend more timing building and painting than playing, so I'd like some new painting experiences. AMG makes great games, but I too feel like they're struggling a bit with everything they have on their plate.
Big legion player here. Post transition from FFG to AMG has been… turbulent to say the least. AMG has released multiple products with quality issues (missing components in battle force boxes, misprinted upgrade cards in multiple boxes) and overall seems to want to cut corners. Their latest release, Range Troopers, includes 7 miniatures in total but only 5 of those are unique sculpts. This was also accompanied by a price increase to $50 for 7 minis, which is even more expensive than GW on a per mini basis for a comparable box of battle line troops. They also announced that they’re no longer holding a World Championship, which has irked the competitive community quite a bit. Bit surprising given that Worlds at this years Adepticon was the largest Legion tournament ever. They have a pretty exciting/robust roadmap announced going through 2025 and are re-releasing the original FFG soft plastic releases into hard plastic. I don’t feel like the game is dying, to me it seems like it’s growing. I just get mixed vibes from AMG regarding things like a great release roadmap but then having QC issues, infrequent balance updates and significant downsizing of competitive play. The creation of a *second* minis game (Shatterpoint) is also a head scratcher as to why Lucas Film green lit a direct competitor to an already existing licensed miniature game. At the time of SP’s inception, SP and Legion were run by 2 different studios. Those 2 studios are now merged into 1 studio (AMG). SP was AMG’s from inception whereas they inherited Legion from FFG. Again, confusing to have 2 comparable games under the same roof doing very similar things, and it makes me wonder what the future looks like long term for these 2 games, especially considering how small the AMG dev team is.
Well said. Given the length of development cycles, the small team and then a pandemic it feels like AMG is just starting to get caught up with the workload dumped on them from the consolidation of product to their studio. No doubt they have to be very careful about putting development time and resources into the products that bring in revenue, all we can do is wait and see what that means for each of the games mentioned in the vid.
I feel like the old Fantasy Flight inside Asmodee used to do a lot of fun fantasy games, but now they I my mind have put their Fokus on the American market. Marvel and Star Wars are of course known here in Europe, but they’re not a big cultural part, mostly they are consumed by the movies. So these games are tiny over here, but probably huge in America. It’s actually quite clever to zero in on the market that is not filled by GW, and see where they can dominate instead.
I think MCP and Shatterpoint are doing alright, personally, but it definitely feels like it is more a story of regional success, vs. wide spread success. Granted, this is just based on my interactions with the community, but both have their ardent supporters. I do think, though, both kind of suffer from their kits being a one and done purchase (unlike large scale games, where you are buying multiple's of the same kit to flesh out a force), which means they need to keep pumping out new stuff. So any delays really hurts momentum, and makes it tricky to maintain excitement within a community.
Yea for sure. It didn't help that MCP had very little come out last year, and then nothing until March this year. They are very new release driven games.
Definitely. Makes them very susceptible to trends, not to mention any sort of shipping delays, which does seem to his both MCP and Shatterpoint strangely often
I like Shatterpoint but all the online discussions is about teams, like what Ewoks to team up with Darth Maul for best results. Now I don’t go to events so that’s not an issue, but there’s nothing really inspiring in terrain and things to (easily) see. Sure, the packs are thematic but that’s where it ends. Now I play with people I know and such, and we play the way we want. Still, either the marketing is really uninspiring or I’m missing all the neat stuff. Now sure GW is much bigger but it’s easier to ignore the “meta watch”and find things that makes me want to hobby.
I think only having a small number of factions will hurt any Star Wars miniature game. Also, Star Wars is mainly about the named characters and once you've done them already, where do you go from there?
I think the problem with Legion and the ship games is that they were developed by the FFG team and Marvel and Shatterpoint are the ‘new team’ babies… so there is not that much incentive to work on them unless the push is from the sales department…
The other problem is they don’t fully understand the products they inherited and actively work to make them more like the games they do understand. X-Wing devolved from “here’s a cool streamlined dogfighting game” to “lol let’s play MCP in space”
I do love Legion, have at least one of every kit up until this year. Excellent game and great fun to play. I have not enjoyed the last few kits though I am looking forward to Republic Commandos and Bad Batch. Never picked up Shatterpoint, as I have Legion.
Do you guys carry Modiphius stock like Fallout and Elder Scrolls call to arms. Would love to know how those minis have done recently with the Fallout show.
I started playing Shatterpoint back in October. I am starting to lose interest in it, however. Part of it, I think, is that the game has lost, for me, the charming cinematic quality that attracted me in October. Other players are out to win all the time. I mean, c'mon, it's Star Wars, man. This just sucks all the fun out of it for me. People teaming up their minis with characters who, in the movies and shows, are deadly enemies. At age 65, I'm just looking to have some fun. I might give Legion a look, not sure yet. At my local game store, Shatterpoint has lost some traction in recent weeks for some reason. Shelves stocked with expansion boxes are not moving at all.
Yeah I had the same problem. I wanted to play a cool small scale Star Wars game to have fun. The only two people locally I could find to play with play the game to win, they listen to competitive podcasts, look at the latest net lists. Come with lists that make little to no thematic sense but they hit like trucks. Always about the most broken combo and when I spoke to them about toning it down they were not interested. I understand people play for different reasons and I hope those two people playing enjoy playing each other every week because they were not open to toning it down to introduce new people.
I was a long time Star Wars mini games player…. I saw the writing on the wall for Shatterpoint when I saw they weren’t going to lock in factions. Legion was great when it was under FFG. X-wing was amazing under ffg. I am very disappointed in AMG and will probably never buy something they produce
@@JStruggers Exactly. In my case, I even tried checking out another game store 15 miles away only to find they don't even play Shatterpoint. It all seems to be about Warhammer 40K. Maybe I'll pick up a 40k combat patrol box and give that game a try.
Another big problem with games based on an IP are that they have to front-load the most iconic characters in order to sell the sizzle, but power creep inevitably renders those fan favorites obsolete. By the time I started playing X-Wing, Luke Skywalker in Red 5 was already almost unplayable. You'd see random aliens from the cartoon flying K-Wings or whatever against extended universe Imperial pilots like "Whisper", while a lot of famous characters like Han, Dash, Kyle, Luke, Vader and Wedge would rarely see the table. Honestly, you'd rarely see X-Wings in the game X-Wing. When I was big in ASOIAF, you'd see Tywin and Ned and all of the iconic characters going at each other. It was great! Riffing off lines from the books and show, getting to see all of your favorites. Quoting Jaqen Hagar every time you slapped him onto the tactics board. I took some time playing other stuff and when I go back into the Facebook group now, it's all about some random Greyjoy character who's mentioned in the books as "being at a table once" fighting Stannis Baratheon's jester. Even in video games, this happens. Total Warhammer II and III iterate on the formula, improving graphics, gameplay, mechanics, and all the rest. Yet most of the iconic match ups happen in the 'worse' and earlier versions of the game. Chaos VS Empire? Orcs versus Dwarfs? Empire versus the Von Carsteins? All in the first game. In the 'best' version of the game, you have completely random factions like Cathay fighting Tzeentch daemons. I'm not sure there's even a solution, really. I guess you should just expect that those kinds of games are here for a good time, not a long time.
AMG look like they're gearing up to announce a 2nd edition of Legion for 2025. May not happen but a lot of the things they've said in terms of their R&D process makes it sound like they're gonna go for it.
Would be interesting to see...the real question is would that many people care? That sounds brutal to say out loud but for many hobby stores they are sitting on product they can't really move already.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 it's a fair point. I quite enjoy legion, but I seem to love the hobby side more as I absolutely suck at playing it. So my exposure to how popular it is in the real world is basically non existent. The one thing that I wanna know is if they do release it, how are they gonna handle migrating players? Because 2nd edition of X-Wing in my opinion was excellent, but FFGs strategy of dedicating whole waves to rereleases is what killed the game, not AMG. The player base stopped buying products because they already had everything and new players were just buying old 1st edition stuff on clearance and buying conversion kits. So hopefully AMG learn from this and allow players to use their old product, but don't waste too much time with rereleases, or at least make it worth players time.
I think AMGs other issues is their lack of communication with their communities. Constantly flip flopping on what they will do with their games and the lack of support for organized play has caused a giant rift. You're clearly right that they can't handle all the IPs due to staff shortages. Only a matter of time before the IP moves.
I have a hard time thinking of anyone with the funds to pay to license at least two of the most expensive IPs to license on the planet as a David in a "vs Goliath" metaphor.
I was a long time x-wing player, and I also got into legion somewhat too. I was a huge Star Wars guy. I participated in the last x-wing worlds before covid and AMG. This is a topic I have strong feelings on. Ffg had figured out the survival strategy for xwing with 2.0 - ships could be adjusted so they all had playable options. Some people rioted but it was the future and the game was better. Additionally, when you had the guy with all the models, selling us card packs with new pilots and upgrades was an option they started to do. My community was thriving…. Until AMG released their take on the rules to shoehorn MCP style “take and hold” into what was an obvious game (shoot the other team). It was the AMG rule set that made everything fall apart. That community is dead now, and the LGS has the xwing in the clearance rack to make room for other games. Legion is a little better off in my area but still nothing compared to the GW product line. Now it doesn’t help Disney is shooting Star Wars in the foot either but that’s another matter
Ultimately attendance at an event isn't the best indicator of how well a game is doing. Go into local hobby shops and compare how much wall space is being given to each product line, that will give you a better idea.
A group of 3 of us got the itch to start the hobby again, we started with legion but each of the boxes had a qa issue and the cards unit system is terrible. We moved onto lotr, its cheaper, it rarely see rules updates and we all know and like the IP. I can see all the star wars ip going in the bin in the next 3 - 5 years.
Would love to hear your take on the 3d print revolution. From a store perspective and personal. Especially with a viseo doing the rounds that apparently gw published an entire recast army in an old white dwarf.
MCP is a GREAT game but its minis are really only suitable for this one thing, and there are a ton of other really good games calling for my attention as well. Shatterpoint was DOA for me, and I can't be the only one, because of AMG's very strange decision to lead with a series of little-known characters from some ancillary kids' cartoon.
Maybe I've missed it, but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts about Corvus Belli's business model. They seem to have one of the more ideal release setups where things constantly come out, but it isn't overwhelming. I know you sell Infinity, what do you think about them?
Hey! Something that I can comment on with a personal perspective. My main game is MCP. I really enjoy the mechanics and the characters, but I only really buy, paint and play with characters that I personally like and it works out well for me. I don't feel a need to own everything and I'm not a huge shop or tournament player, I just don't have the time, but I do have the time to play with friends at one of our places. I truly believe that it's a great game and people should give it a look even if Marvel isn't the biggest draw.
Then there's Shatterpoint. I started in this hobby wanting to play a "Star Wars Kill Team". Thinking that it would come eventually I bought into Legion and still have around 600 points of Empire. Turns out I don't like large scale war games and just stopped playing. When Shatterpoint was announced I was excited, thinking this was surely the "Star Wars Kill Team" I wanted and after watching a few batreps from AMG I decided to buy it. Nothing but regret since then. I find the game so boring, nothing happens. You can't really take out any models, so attrition is not really an option, then it's just hanging out around a token trying to control it. In MCP you have an extraction objective as well, and attrition is always an option. The characters are all variations on the same skills and abilities that were in the core set. You want to play another game mode? That's $15 and it's the same game type, but the layout is different and there's some randomness thrown in. I'm not a fan at all, never bought beyond the core set and an extra set of dice and I'm considering selling. They have announced Legion Spec Ops awhile back which might actually be the "Star Wars Kill Team" I wanted, but it's still just a side project and not a real thing they're pushing.
I think you're spot on with the fact that when they focus on one game, all the others suffer. Spec Ops could be just what I'm looking for, but it's bare bones right now and doesn't seem important to them, because of that I don't feel like putting effort into spending my rare gaming time on it. Instead I play more MCP and paint new MCP models. I'm also looking into other games: Kill Team, Deadzone, Warcrow, Relicblade mostly because as primarily a hobby hero I spend more timing building and painting than playing, so I'd like some new painting experiences. AMG makes great games, but I too feel like they're struggling a bit with everything they have on their plate.
To a casual observer... it seems like AMG is releasing their games like they are 'supporting merch". Bold move if you ask me.
Big legion player here. Post transition from FFG to AMG has been… turbulent to say the least. AMG has released multiple products with quality issues (missing components in battle force boxes, misprinted upgrade cards in multiple boxes) and overall seems to want to cut corners.
Their latest release, Range Troopers, includes 7 miniatures in total but only 5 of those are unique sculpts. This was also accompanied by a price increase to $50 for 7 minis, which is even more expensive than GW on a per mini basis for a comparable box of battle line troops. They also announced that they’re no longer holding a World Championship, which has irked the competitive community quite a bit. Bit surprising given that Worlds at this years Adepticon was the largest Legion tournament ever.
They have a pretty exciting/robust roadmap announced going through 2025 and are re-releasing the original FFG soft plastic releases into hard plastic. I don’t feel like the game is dying, to me it seems like it’s growing. I just get mixed vibes from AMG regarding things like a great release roadmap but then having QC issues, infrequent balance updates and significant downsizing of competitive play.
The creation of a *second* minis game (Shatterpoint) is also a head scratcher as to why Lucas Film green lit a direct competitor to an already existing licensed miniature game. At the time of SP’s inception, SP and Legion were run by 2 different studios. Those 2 studios are now merged into 1 studio (AMG). SP was AMG’s from inception whereas they inherited Legion from FFG. Again, confusing to have 2 comparable games under the same roof doing very similar things, and it makes me wonder what the future looks like long term for these 2 games, especially considering how small the AMG dev team is.
Well said. Given the length of development cycles, the small team and then a pandemic it feels like AMG is just starting to get caught up with the workload dumped on them from the consolidation of product to their studio. No doubt they have to be very careful about putting development time and resources into the products that bring in revenue, all we can do is wait and see what that means for each of the games mentioned in the vid.
I feel like the old Fantasy Flight inside Asmodee used to do a lot of fun fantasy games, but now they I my mind have put their Fokus on the American market. Marvel and Star Wars are of course known here in Europe, but they’re not a big cultural part, mostly they are consumed by the movies. So these games are tiny over here, but probably huge in America. It’s actually quite clever to zero in on the market that is not filled by GW, and see where they can dominate instead.
I think MCP and Shatterpoint are doing alright, personally, but it definitely feels like it is more a story of regional success, vs. wide spread success. Granted, this is just based on my interactions with the community, but both have their ardent supporters. I do think, though, both kind of suffer from their kits being a one and done purchase (unlike large scale games, where you are buying multiple's of the same kit to flesh out a force), which means they need to keep pumping out new stuff. So any delays really hurts momentum, and makes it tricky to maintain excitement within a community.
Yea for sure. It didn't help that MCP had very little come out last year, and then nothing until March this year. They are very new release driven games.
Definitely. Makes them very susceptible to trends, not to mention any sort of shipping delays, which does seem to his both MCP and Shatterpoint strangely often
I like Shatterpoint but all the online discussions is about teams, like what Ewoks to team up with Darth Maul for best results. Now I don’t go to events so that’s not an issue, but there’s nothing really inspiring in terrain and things to (easily) see. Sure, the packs are thematic but that’s where it ends.
Now I play with people I know and such, and we play the way we want. Still, either the marketing is really uninspiring or I’m missing all the neat stuff. Now sure GW is much bigger but it’s easier to ignore the “meta watch”and find things that makes me want to hobby.
Also release Darth Talon already, I love painting red stuff! ;)
I think only having a small number of factions will hurt any Star Wars miniature game. Also, Star Wars is mainly about the named characters and once you've done them already, where do you go from there?
I think the problem with Legion and the ship games is that they were developed by the FFG team and Marvel and Shatterpoint are the ‘new team’ babies… so there is not that much incentive to work on them unless the push is from the sales department…
The other problem is they don’t fully understand the products they inherited and actively work to make them more like the games they do understand. X-Wing devolved from “here’s a cool streamlined dogfighting game” to “lol let’s play MCP in space”
I do love Legion, have at least one of every kit up until this year. Excellent game and great fun to play. I have not enjoyed the last few kits though I am looking forward to Republic Commandos and Bad Batch. Never picked up Shatterpoint, as I have Legion.
Do you guys carry Modiphius stock like Fallout and Elder Scrolls call to arms. Would love to know how those minis have done recently with the Fallout show.
I started playing Shatterpoint back in October. I am starting to lose interest in it, however. Part of it, I think, is that the game has lost, for me, the charming cinematic quality that attracted me in October. Other players are out to win all the time. I mean, c'mon, it's Star Wars, man. This just sucks all the fun out of it for me. People teaming up their minis with characters who, in the movies and shows, are deadly enemies. At age 65, I'm just looking to have some fun. I might give Legion a look, not sure yet. At my local game store, Shatterpoint has lost some traction in recent weeks for some reason. Shelves stocked with expansion boxes are not moving at all.
Yeah I had the same problem. I wanted to play a cool small scale Star Wars game to have fun. The only two people locally I could find to play with play the game to win, they listen to competitive podcasts, look at the latest net lists. Come with lists that make little to no thematic sense but they hit like trucks. Always about the most broken combo and when I spoke to them about toning it down they were not interested. I understand people play for different reasons and I hope those two people playing enjoy playing each other every week because they were not open to toning it down to introduce new people.
I was a long time Star Wars mini games player…. I saw the writing on the wall for Shatterpoint when I saw they weren’t going to lock in factions.
Legion was great when it was under FFG. X-wing was amazing under ffg.
I am very disappointed in AMG and will probably never buy something they produce
@@JStruggers Exactly. In my case, I even tried checking out another game store 15 miles away only to find they don't even play Shatterpoint. It all seems to be about Warhammer 40K. Maybe I'll pick up a 40k combat patrol box and give that game a try.
@@markkuhn1297 Warhammer 40K is the behemoth everyone is up against! Biggest game in the world by FAR.
Another big problem with games based on an IP are that they have to front-load the most iconic characters in order to sell the sizzle, but power creep inevitably renders those fan favorites obsolete. By the time I started playing X-Wing, Luke Skywalker in Red 5 was already almost unplayable. You'd see random aliens from the cartoon flying K-Wings or whatever against extended universe Imperial pilots like "Whisper", while a lot of famous characters like Han, Dash, Kyle, Luke, Vader and Wedge would rarely see the table. Honestly, you'd rarely see X-Wings in the game X-Wing.
When I was big in ASOIAF, you'd see Tywin and Ned and all of the iconic characters going at each other. It was great! Riffing off lines from the books and show, getting to see all of your favorites. Quoting Jaqen Hagar every time you slapped him onto the tactics board. I took some time playing other stuff and when I go back into the Facebook group now, it's all about some random Greyjoy character who's mentioned in the books as "being at a table once" fighting Stannis Baratheon's jester.
Even in video games, this happens. Total Warhammer II and III iterate on the formula, improving graphics, gameplay, mechanics, and all the rest. Yet most of the iconic match ups happen in the 'worse' and earlier versions of the game. Chaos VS Empire? Orcs versus Dwarfs? Empire versus the Von Carsteins? All in the first game. In the 'best' version of the game, you have completely random factions like Cathay fighting Tzeentch daemons.
I'm not sure there's even a solution, really. I guess you should just expect that those kinds of games are here for a good time, not a long time.
AMG look like they're gearing up to announce a 2nd edition of Legion for 2025. May not happen but a lot of the things they've said in terms of their R&D process makes it sound like they're gonna go for it.
Would be interesting to see...the real question is would that many people care? That sounds brutal to say out loud but for many hobby stores they are sitting on product they can't really move already.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 it's a fair point. I quite enjoy legion, but I seem to love the hobby side more as I absolutely suck at playing it. So my exposure to how popular it is in the real world is basically non existent.
The one thing that I wanna know is if they do release it, how are they gonna handle migrating players? Because 2nd edition of X-Wing in my opinion was excellent, but FFGs strategy of dedicating whole waves to rereleases is what killed the game, not AMG. The player base stopped buying products because they already had everything and new players were just buying old 1st edition stuff on clearance and buying conversion kits.
So hopefully AMG learn from this and allow players to use their old product, but don't waste too much time with rereleases, or at least make it worth players time.
In my area, both star wars related games and mcp are no longer moving in the shops and have very little play. ASOI&F has also died.
I think AMGs other issues is their lack of communication with their communities. Constantly flip flopping on what they will do with their games and the lack of support for organized play has caused a giant rift. You're clearly right that they can't handle all the IPs due to staff shortages. Only a matter of time before the IP moves.
I have come to realize as a gamer: bank on nothing lasting.
I have a hard time thinking of anyone with the funds to pay to license at least two of the most expensive IPs to license on the planet as a David in a "vs Goliath" metaphor.
I was a long time x-wing player, and I also got into legion somewhat too. I was a huge Star Wars guy. I participated in the last x-wing worlds before covid and AMG. This is a topic I have strong feelings on.
Ffg had figured out the survival strategy for xwing with 2.0 - ships could be adjusted so they all had playable options. Some people rioted but it was the future and the game was better. Additionally, when you had the guy with all the models, selling us card packs with new pilots and upgrades was an option they started to do.
My community was thriving…. Until AMG released their take on the rules to shoehorn MCP style “take and hold” into what was an obvious game (shoot the other team). It was the AMG rule set that made everything fall apart. That community is dead now, and the LGS has the xwing in the clearance rack to make room for other games. Legion is a little better off in my area but still nothing compared to the GW product line.
Now it doesn’t help Disney is shooting Star Wars in the foot either but that’s another matter
Thanks for your input! Once a game hits the clearance bin it's near impossible to make a comeback
Look at X wing and armada attendance at Adepticon…more than most GW games.
Ultimately attendance at an event isn't the best indicator of how well a game is doing. Go into local hobby shops and compare how much wall space is being given to each product line, that will give you a better idea.
AMG killed x wing. The game is gone.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 I mean AMG have not released any new product for armada in what 3 years?
What are the healthier games in your shop at the moment?
A wild guess: warhammer forty thousands (bucks)
A group of 3 of us got the itch to start the hobby again, we started with legion but each of the boxes had a qa issue and the cards unit system is terrible.
We moved onto lotr, its cheaper, it rarely see rules updates and we all know and like the IP.
I can see all the star wars ip going in the bin in the next 3 - 5 years.
Would love to hear your take on the 3d print revolution. From a store perspective and personal. Especially with a viseo doing the rounds that apparently gw published an entire recast army in an old white dwarf.
They've already done a video on it: ruclips.net/video/uST8sFhhNnw/видео.html
Star wars is just not interesting. It makes for a poor wargame in my opinion. 40k and warhammer in general are wargames.
I like starwars but i find painting some stormtroopers/ rebels extremely unappealing and boring as hell
First?