Discourse Minis started off as a Knights Miniatures channel. Had well put together battle reports with a lot of love put into them. No one watched. So, they turned into what it is today...Thanks Knight Miniatures
I own the Harry Potter Adventure game. No wands survived shipping. Most of the models looked fantastic... after you spend hours cleaning up the annoying resin blocks under chins and hands, trying really hard not to slip and cut off noses and hands. The game in the tin (I hate tins) had components that were thin paper that blew away if someone walked by the table. They later made an updated box with slightly better components, but the card design for things like the spells was near unreadable. It was an aggressively average mass market level board game with expert level hobby miniatures. That's two very different target audiences.
It is a real shame that independent retailers and independent manufacturers can't seem to link up and form some kind of mutually benefecial alliance. Imagine for a moment a system where stores are encouraged to concentrate on supporting the local gaming scene by running events and providing free space with which to meet up and play. The stores predominately stock good value introductory sets meant to onramp people into playing that particular game. More advanced offerings are then sold directly to customers over the internet, with the retailer taking a referral cut from any products shipped to the geographical area they signed on to service.
AWSOME insight into the depths of hobby nightmares…. I’ve been going to stores for most of my life and often wondering why things are they way they are. You guys have lived it. Thank you again.
Running a game store must be maddening. Almost everyone starts out as a fan, and then you have games that you love and want to support, but supporting them would be a terrible business decision ...
Knight Models... I loved Batman 2nd Edition and just could not wrap my head around 3rd and hated the super large diorama figures. The company lost something when the creator of the Batman game tragically passed away.
Absolutely agree. I remember picking up the new 2nd ed starter set at Salute (in April) and by December there was a whole new edition out everything I had was outdated. Insane.
The clickbait never disappoints with you! 😀 We had a very active BMG group in our club during second edition. The customer support was already a nightmare and the only approach that worked was opening a case with paypal after your mails were unanswered for weeks or months. I know that's a bit scummy, but in the case of KM it was self-defence. The game itself was incredibly fun and mulching entire hordes of mooks with Bane was one of the best tabletop experiences I ever had.They had a lot of goodwill in our community but then 3rd Edition came around the corner and the real bullshit started. The worst example was the 50% discount sale of box sets two weeks before the new edition was announced, which completely invalidated the boxes you just bought. Every month it got worse and within six months our group was dead and nobody is going to buy anything from KM again.
I got the back to Gotham box. I paid someone to build the Joker crew for me, and when I actually managed a game I found that rules were split between the learn to play booklet and actual rule book. Lots of issues with it. I liked the card stock fairground terrain though, I'll be using that in Mutant Year Zero - Zone Wars.
Jay (sorry, Shill 1) dropping absolute fire @ 0:12 ... I wanna say that the probability of getting the entirety (and correct) components of a purchase was about 60%... Also hated the "diorama" characters. Don't forget their short lived 35mm Lord of the Rings range that ... simply disappeared(?). All hat and no cattle
They really dropped any holdovers they had when they stopped shipping the figure stat cards in the game. You could get the PDFs on their site, but only as long as they had the models. Once they sold out, the PDFs also dropped - which didn’t help when you bought the boxes retail. Right now they are selling STLs for the DC Universe game on MyMiniFactory. The reason I didn’t flip to MCP was the scale, plus any games played that I’ve seen online - even on Ash’s channel - just don’t seem fun.
Last year I dropped knight models when I couldn’t get the peacemaker set for Batman. They’re a total disaster. Screwing up that release killed the game in my area
9 дней назад+2
Very interesting video even though I never played any of these games!
23:00 Dramatic gulp of guilt there 😄 Interesting conversation, I've never heard of these games. The Batman minis look cool, but the starter set seems very austere compared to the other crews.
Knight Models used to be amazing and produce quality resin models when they were doing the Marvel and DC mini games back in the day. It's sad what they have become now.
I got badly stung by their Marvel game that they dropped almost overnight, which put me off licensed games for good. Had some good games of Batman 2nd edition though with the old metal models.
App, different editions, mistakes and OOP a lot. I have a large collection in the attic. Never bothered to make it. Same with their DC Universe Miniatures game.
fun to get your point of view as another Kind of retailer (Toys ) . But I always find GW has been a great distributors ( compared to some others in Canada and even the US )
When you're done slinging poo on Knight models, can you get around to slinging poo on Shatterpoint and how they pressure you into stocking more when you haven't even sold through the last refill, despite their game only expecting to last a few years?
You forgot or (didn't know) there was a god awful incomplete mobile app as well that went along with third. I bought the yellow box starter. Resin was crap, but I enjoyed the sculpts and painting the figures as a Batman fan. I've got a few of them in my models case, the Joker vignette model especially is one of my favs. Played the game once but meh.
The knight models marvel fiasco was a joke. It was the rulebook they fucked up on which is the reason they lost it. They are/ were a terrible company but 3rd edition seems to be quite good and the sio cast minis aren't actually too bad
Man I came here to yell about Imperial Knights, I will retreat and regroup. I have actually only seen the Batman minis on clearance sale, I don’t think it ever took off even though we are closer to Spain than you are. :)
I really wanted to try out their Batman game but read they are a nightmare to work with if anything goes wrong. And the cost to have anything delivered to where I live was a bit too high.
Yeah, that potter box was junk. Brittle bad resin. Tokens that were ultra crap quality paper. That the game was pseudo grid based was meh too. Was hilarious they reprinted it with slightly better materials less than a year later and called it a second edition. They also did star wars clone wars figures along with marvel before Disney got involved. Some fantastically beautiful figures but pain in the ass company. As for plastic kits, some companies have super fragile or crap plastics, even if they are hips.
So am I reading you correctly between the lines that you are not betting the store on KM and their Game of Thrones, the minature game (based on the TV series, not the book ASOIAF )? It is a skirmish game based on the Batman game (if I understand it correctly) and hurt by a failed and drawn-out launch, the need for an app, and card packs. The minis look great but could be more comfortable to get right, to put it mildly, by the look of things.
Hey guys, this is off topic but, are you getting any new stock of Villainy Inks? I noticed you only have 3 types in stock currently. Also, my order from you guys was great, packaged great, etc.
Knight model's customer support has gotten drastically better in the last few years. Still shitty quality control, but they will replace stuff if it looks like shit
The company that absolutely demolished their own Batman game through absolute incompetence. Fliks Tabletop Gaming made an amazing video on the issue with that game
In store experience? But you guys film in front of a green screen, seems like you could save some money if you just used your store instead of a fancy set.
Fine cast at least had GW excellent customer service behind it. Your model was replaced no issues. I am yet to work with a company that has made resin that doesn't have these issues.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 the GW customer service has been the most consistent thing about them, and it has henerally been great. Although I did give up on getting on issue with my warhammer account sorted as it was unbelievably slow, and showed no sign of progress. Hopefully a one off I think the issue with resin isn't universal, the issue is when large companies adopt it as it doesn't naturally lend itself to high production speed. I have brought amazing stuff from relatively new small companies, but they can give it the time they need to get quality.
Discourse Minis started off as a Knights Miniatures channel. Had well put together battle reports with a lot of love put into them.
No one watched.
So, they turned into what it is today...Thanks Knight Miniatures
A villain origin story if I ever heard one
Baptized in 🔥
I was one of the main viewers at the time as well, I watched less and less as it was covered less, il watch now and then though.
They're an embarrassment to the hobby.
If it's any consolation they're a nightmare to deal with as a consumer too.
I own the Harry Potter Adventure game. No wands survived shipping. Most of the models looked fantastic... after you spend hours cleaning up the annoying resin blocks under chins and hands, trying really hard not to slip and cut off noses and hands.
The game in the tin (I hate tins) had components that were thin paper that blew away if someone walked by the table. They later made an updated box with slightly better components, but the card design for things like the spells was near unreadable. It was an aggressively average mass market level board game with expert level hobby miniatures. That's two very different target audiences.
It is a real shame that independent retailers and independent manufacturers can't seem to link up and form some kind of mutually benefecial alliance. Imagine for a moment a system where stores are encouraged to concentrate on supporting the local gaming scene by running events and providing free space with which to meet up and play. The stores predominately stock good value introductory sets meant to onramp people into playing that particular game. More advanced offerings are then sold directly to customers over the internet, with the retailer taking a referral cut from any products shipped to the geographical area they signed on to service.
AWSOME insight into the depths of hobby nightmares…. I’ve been going to stores for most of my life and often wondering why things are they way they are. You guys have lived it. Thank you again.
Running a game store must be maddening. Almost everyone starts out as a fan, and then you have games that you love and want to support, but supporting them would be a terrible business decision ...
You really do have to separate yourself from your business (as best you can). We don't always succeed at this lol
Knight Models... I loved Batman 2nd Edition and just could not wrap my head around 3rd and hated the super large diorama figures. The company lost something when the creator of the Batman game tragically passed away.
Absolutely agree. I remember picking up the new 2nd ed starter set at Salute (in April) and by December there was a whole new edition out everything I had was outdated. Insane.
I wish I could give a second upvote for the Mr. Dressup reference.
Never heard of Knight models to be honest
The clickbait never disappoints with you! 😀 We had a very active BMG group in our club during second edition. The customer support was already a nightmare and the only approach that worked was opening a case with paypal after your mails were unanswered for weeks or months. I know that's a bit scummy, but in the case of KM it was self-defence.
The game itself was incredibly fun and mulching entire hordes of mooks with Bane was one of the best tabletop experiences I ever had.They had a lot of goodwill in our community but then 3rd Edition came around the corner and the real bullshit started. The worst example was the 50% discount sale of box sets two weeks before the new edition was announced, which completely invalidated the boxes you just bought. Every month it got worse and within six months our group was dead and nobody is going to buy anything from KM again.
I got the back to Gotham box. I paid someone to build the Joker crew for me, and when I actually managed a game I found that rules were split between the learn to play booklet and actual rule book. Lots of issues with it. I liked the card stock fairground terrain though, I'll be using that in Mutant Year Zero - Zone Wars.
I don't think there's a more iconic combination that game companies and gross mismanagement, to be honest.
Truth
Jay (sorry, Shill 1) dropping absolute fire @ 0:12 ... I wanna say that the probability of getting the entirety (and correct) components of a purchase was about 60%... Also hated the "diorama" characters. Don't forget their short lived 35mm Lord of the Rings range that ... simply disappeared(?). All hat and no cattle
Sculpt for the material the model is going to be made in! I've had so many resin models cross my desk that should never have been cast in resin.
They really dropped any holdovers they had when they stopped shipping the figure stat cards in the game. You could get the PDFs on their site, but only as long as they had the models. Once they sold out, the PDFs also dropped - which didn’t help when you bought the boxes retail. Right now they are selling STLs for the DC Universe game on MyMiniFactory. The reason I didn’t flip to MCP was the scale, plus any games played that I’ve seen online - even on Ash’s channel - just don’t seem fun.
One thing that always baffled me was what their sales pitch was to get such high-profile licenses in the first place
Last year I dropped knight models when I couldn’t get the peacemaker set for Batman. They’re a total disaster.
Screwing up that release killed the game in my area
Very interesting video even though I never played any of these games!
Love their minis! Too many games out there and I couldn't find a group...
Moved on to the Monolith Kickstarter Gotham/DC game but the minis and rules are meh...
23:00 Dramatic gulp of guilt there 😄
Interesting conversation, I've never heard of these games. The Batman minis look cool, but the starter set seems very austere compared to the other crews.
Man this whole video triggered some major PTSD as I use to be a big Batman player.
I'm sorry lol
Knight Models used to be amazing and produce quality resin models when they were doing the Marvel and DC mini games back in the day. It's sad what they have become now.
Imagine 10 years from now a 3rd edition ,secondary market, utube box opening😅
I got badly stung by their Marvel game that they dropped almost overnight, which put me off licensed games for good. Had some good games of Batman 2nd edition though with the old metal models.
App, different editions, mistakes and OOP a lot. I have a large collection in the attic. Never bothered to make it. Same with their DC Universe Miniatures game.
fun to get your point of view as another Kind of retailer (Toys ) . But I always find GW has been a great distributors ( compared to some others in Canada and even the US )
When you're done slinging poo on Knight models, can you get around to slinging poo on Shatterpoint and how they pressure you into stocking more when you haven't even sold through the last refill, despite their game only expecting to last a few years?
You forgot or (didn't know) there was a god awful incomplete mobile app as well that went along with third. I bought the yellow box starter. Resin was crap, but I enjoyed the sculpts and painting the figures as a Batman fan. I've got a few of them in my models case, the Joker vignette model especially is one of my favs. Played the game once but meh.
Mage Knight kicked arse
my first wargame! Still have my Dungeon set
Never picked stuff up the sculpts are stunning but soooooo many bad stories about QA and customer service
The knight models marvel fiasco was a joke. It was the rulebook they fucked up on which is the reason they lost it. They are/ were a terrible company but 3rd edition seems to be quite good and the sio cast minis aren't actually too bad
To be fair I would have liked to have taken, oops all penguins. Just to make batman kill a flock of penguins.😂
Man I came here to yell about Imperial Knights, I will retreat and regroup.
I have actually only seen the Batman minis on clearance sale, I don’t think it ever took off even though we are closer to Spain than you are. :)
I really wanted to try out their Batman game but read they are a nightmare to work with if anything goes wrong. And the cost to have anything delivered to where I live was a bit too high.
You are spot on about KM… I tried to like them….gave up
Yeah, that potter box was junk. Brittle bad resin. Tokens that were ultra crap quality paper. That the game was pseudo grid based was meh too. Was hilarious they reprinted it with slightly better materials less than a year later and called it a second edition. They also did star wars clone wars figures along with marvel before Disney got involved. Some fantastically beautiful figures but pain in the ass company.
As for plastic kits, some companies have super fragile or crap plastics, even if they are hips.
So am I reading you correctly between the lines that you are not betting the store on KM and their Game of Thrones, the minature game (based on the TV series, not the book ASOIAF )? It is a skirmish game based on the Batman game (if I understand it correctly) and hurt by a failed and drawn-out launch, the need for an app, and card packs. The minis look great but could be more comfortable to get right, to put it mildly, by the look of things.
That's a yikes from me lol
When was this? I have no memory of these games.
Hey guys, this is off topic but, are you getting any new stock of Villainy Inks? I noticed you only have 3 types in stock currently. Also, my order from you guys was great, packaged great, etc.
We looked into Villainy, the up front cost was very high so we paused on it for now. Maybe later in the next 6-12 months.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Okay, thanks for letting me know, appreciate ya.
Can you guys make a video explaining from your perspective? What happened with privateer press and war machine?
they've talked about quite a bit in previous videos
Look back in the list of videos there is probably 2-3
Wait until you get a load of Catalyst Game labs 😂🎉
Knight model's customer support has gotten drastically better in the last few years. Still shitty quality control, but they will replace stuff if it looks like shit
The company that absolutely demolished their own Batman game through absolute incompetence.
Fliks Tabletop Gaming made an amazing video on the issue with that game
GW and resin finecast... that was their attempt, and it was not good.
In store experience? But you guys film in front of a green screen, seems like you could save some money if you just used your store instead of a fancy set.
Someone seems to be forgetting Finecast. Also I stopped buying large forgeworld kits, too much release agent, too much warping, way too much clean up.
Fine cast at least had GW excellent customer service behind it. Your model was replaced no issues.
I am yet to work with a company that has made resin that doesn't have these issues.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 the GW customer service has been the most consistent thing about them, and it has henerally been great. Although I did give up on getting on issue with my warhammer account sorted as it was unbelievably slow, and showed no sign of progress. Hopefully a one off
I think the issue with resin isn't universal, the issue is when large companies adopt it as it doesn't naturally lend itself to high production speed. I have brought amazing stuff from relatively new small companies, but they can give it the time they need to get quality.
I'm all about running down Knight Models customer service, but maybe less "blow your brains out" talk. That's not cool.
It was funny. Get over it.
@@chuckocenasek5651 yeah, hilarious.
@@mikefitzpatrick1375 It's a figure of speech.