This vid is worth million words. Would I see it earlier I could avoid an intrusive operation on my shoulder. That's how important this vid is. All coaches I ever bumped into used emphasiasng UP UP UP while I was just sensing the whole idea was ackward. Now this puzzle is cleared. Chest UP hence pelvis forward and up (= natural leg drive a'la Thiem) and with the chest up the throwing motion translates into the upward motion. Very clear, very smart. If the serve is the most important shot in tennis and this vid is the best clue for the effortless hence powerful swing hence this tip is the most important tip for the game. As simple as that )))
After a drought of TPA videos (we were worried that COVID got you) - there’s been an embarrassment of riches lately (with all the new videos)! Awesome new content!!
Excellent video. I do this and have always done this for my serve and my brother tends to open his wrist on his serve. I started teaching him this exact motion last year (telling him to put the elbow forward) because that’s how I always have thought of it and it helped right away.
1:17 you mentioned throwing motion and demonstrated with a shadow swing (elbow facing the front before swinging racket forward), not upwards, but at 1:26 when u demonstrated with the actual ball, it's more of an upwards motion (elbow never goes in front until after contact), not throwing forward. I think the throwing motion is totally wrong, I have seen many youtube videos saying that, and I agree with Nick on Intuitive Tennis on Serve is NOT a throwing motion, and that helped me a lot recently, as my problem with the throwing motion is 1. Elbow facing forward, becomes muscling the ball instead of body power. 2. Because Elbow is forward facing, it is very hard to not hit a pancake serve, even with a continental grip. If you look at all Pros, yes they do have the TILT and upwards motion, but their ELBOW never goes in front of their shoulders like the throwing motion, but stays parallel to the shoulder with the shoulder rotation generating most of the power, not the arm, thereby pronation happens more naturally. My 2 cents.
I saw that video. I don't agree. The serve is definitely a throwing motion. Moving the elbow in the correct sequence develops the correct sequencing. The elbow can then move ahead of the body/shoulder, but upwards instead of forwards. This is a simple progression that I have never seen result in muscling the ball. But I have seen it work about 400 times.
@@TomAllsopp I find it's due to some people's natural reflex, I know people who naturally hit well in the serve even though they do the throwing motion drills, their strokes just changes when the ball is in play, like the example in your video as well the timing I shared above. But for myself, I have been doing those drills and find it really hard to generate power, recorded myself slow motion with elbow going forward, and pronation, it is just hard to not open up early I find, which means that I will end up with a pancake serve when the ball is in play all the time, the most common recreational players problem (opening up too early problem), precisely due to the elbow being forward with the throwing motion. Usually it will lead to 1. Low contact point 2. Timing issue becoz your arm can only fully extend further in front of you instead of above you, affecting the toss. 3. Opening up early (pancake) when the ball is not tossed in front more due to the distance of a fully extended arm. All of which makes it hard to control direction and generate power. Anyways, thanks for responding, am still trying to master the serve myself, so I am no expert, I might be wrong, just trying different things myself as an experiment also, and I think Nick's video helped me a lot and made sense to me.
I think you’re seeing amateurs do things and you don’t have the correct cause of their issues. Most players would benefit from rotating their body more, not less. Appreciate your comments though!
@TPA tennis I got a coach actually, my problem is actually the opposite when I do the throwing motion, forward elbow, he kept saying that I over rotated my body, he is pretty old coach who cannot explain really well but cheap haha.
Thanks for the tips. But a couple key areas have t been addressed. A Shoulder tilt and throwing with a loose bendable elbow is one requirement, but no mention was made of the lower links in the kinetic throwing chain. His footwork is good but very little knee bend. I’d be hesitant to tell him to bend his elbow. I’d say push the legs and thrust the hips/torso and the loose arm will fly around the elbow will drop.
I think what you said was good. I’d just add a little leg push starting the chain. Most people who aren’t good throwers try to put all the pieces in place but without leg extension and torso thrust it won’t be as good a throwing motion. Legs, hips, shoulders thrust and a relaxed arm will lag and snap. Am I right? You’re a good coach. I’m still studying the serve. It’s part throwing motion and part striking motion.
I think what you said was good. I’d just add a little leg push starting the chain. Most people who aren’t good throwers try to put all the pieces in place but without leg extension and torso thrust it won’t be as good a throwing motion. Legs, hips, shoulders thrust and a relaxed arm will lag and snap. Am I right? You’re a good coach. I’m still studying the serve. It’s part throwing motion and part striking motion.
@@swalterstennis your observation is good. As you know, it’s just difficult to make adjustments with most players so you have to pick the lowest hanging fruit and make incremental adjustments and see how they react to each advice/task.
Many coaches will have guys serve from their knees to show you don't need the legs at all if you have a good racket drop. The main issue is tension. The arm and shoulder need to be very relaxed to allow a full racquet drop, and you can't fix tension with more tension, trying to hit the ball harder can increase tension, it is something I struggle with especially during critical match points.
That guy could be me, if I physically drop my racket down my back my elbow dpoesnt go forward and up, I want it to drop by using bigger muscles and relaxing as I can do great shadow swings but the brain says go to the ball during real serve from serving wrong too long. I have srarted working on just serving forward more until the drop happens and slowly build the tilt but not too soon.
Yeaaaaassssssss!!!! Tom can you do some type of coaching training session? Zoom maybe or online thang? I would sign up. I've been watching your videos for years and have benefited so much. Every think of that????🤔🤗🤗
@@TomAllsopp Incorrect? This is where you "show off" both your physics and throwing ignorance. The front foot should experience minimal downward pressure compared to the back foot - you could even be on tip-toe off the front foot to prove this to yourself. Instead you prefer to be an ignoramus. Sam Groth who had the fastest serve ever was a back foot stomper. Look him up. He wasn't much of a player, but he could serve a bomb as he leaned back to engage the back foot off the ground his front foot was tip-toe.
@@TomAllsopp I thought your were the self-proclaimed no nonsense tennis guy - because now you are talking nonsense. Yes, as Groth steps up (as a step-up stance server) he shifts weight momentarily to the front foot, but then he shifts back onto the back foot before launching off the ground. In his brief shift to the front foot the throw or swing portion of the movement has not been reached. It is only after shifting to the back foot does the throw or swing reach the activation point, which is both swift and explosive. Roddick did something similar. I created the Reverse Step-up Stance so that servers could get full use of the back foot for a powerful serve. Something you and other tennis instructors would never have thought of considering what little knowledge of physics in connection with human biomechanics you have at your disposal. You should give both the Reverse Step-up Stance and my other serve initiative the Step-back Platform Stance a try.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Oh wow I have ALWAYS thought about this as going up! I love the idea of just doing the throwing motion - but then tilt the body.
Me too!
Thanks Tom! I was dimly aware I needed to feel it more like a sling but this brought it all together clearly.
This vid is worth million words. Would I see it earlier I could avoid an intrusive operation on my shoulder. That's how important this vid is. All coaches I ever bumped into used emphasiasng UP UP UP while I was just sensing the whole idea was ackward. Now this puzzle is cleared. Chest UP hence pelvis forward and up (= natural leg drive a'la Thiem) and with the chest up the throwing motion translates into the upward motion. Very clear, very smart. If the serve is the most important shot in tennis and this vid is the best clue for the effortless hence powerful swing hence this tip is the most important tip for the game. As simple as that )))
Thanks! Happy I helped. Wish I could have helped earlier!
After a drought of TPA videos (we were worried that COVID got you) - there’s been an embarrassment of riches lately (with all the new videos)! Awesome new content!!
Haha there’s a time to surf and a time to wax your board!
Covid only made him stronger
Has the board touched salt water?
Excellent video. I do this and have always done this for my serve and my brother tends to open his wrist on his serve. I started teaching him this exact motion last year (telling him to put the elbow forward) because that’s how I always have thought of it and it helped right away.
Great stuff, explained very simple. This is how tennis should be brought to amateurs. Thanks a million 😊
Great coaching! the fastest effective result I have seen so far! Got to say, you are a really awesome coach!
1:17 you mentioned throwing motion and demonstrated with a shadow swing (elbow facing the front before swinging racket forward), not upwards, but at 1:26 when u demonstrated with the actual ball, it's more of an upwards motion (elbow never goes in front until after contact), not throwing forward. I think the throwing motion is totally wrong, I have seen many youtube videos saying that, and I agree with Nick on Intuitive Tennis on Serve is NOT a throwing motion, and that helped me a lot recently, as my problem with the throwing motion is
1. Elbow facing forward, becomes muscling the ball instead of body power.
2. Because Elbow is forward facing, it is very hard to not hit a pancake serve, even with a continental grip.
If you look at all Pros, yes they do have the TILT and upwards motion, but their ELBOW never goes in front of their shoulders like the throwing motion, but stays parallel to the shoulder with the shoulder rotation generating most of the power, not the arm, thereby pronation happens more naturally.
My 2 cents.
I saw that video. I don't agree. The serve is definitely a throwing motion. Moving the elbow in the correct sequence develops the correct sequencing. The elbow can then move ahead of the body/shoulder, but upwards instead of forwards. This is a simple progression that I have never seen result in muscling the ball. But I have seen it work about 400 times.
@@TomAllsopp I find it's due to some people's natural reflex, I know people who naturally hit well in the serve even though they do the throwing motion drills, their strokes just changes when the ball is in play, like the example in your video as well the timing I shared above.
But for myself, I have been doing those drills and find it really hard to generate power, recorded myself slow motion with elbow going forward, and pronation, it is just hard to not open up early I find, which means that I will end up with a pancake serve when the ball is in play all the time, the most common recreational players problem (opening up too early problem), precisely due to the elbow being forward with the throwing motion. Usually it will lead to
1. Low contact point
2. Timing issue becoz your arm can only fully extend further in front of you instead of above you, affecting the toss.
3. Opening up early (pancake) when the ball is not tossed in front more due to the distance of a fully extended arm.
All of which makes it hard to control direction and generate power.
Anyways, thanks for responding, am still trying to master the serve myself, so I am no expert, I might be wrong, just trying different things myself as an experiment also, and I think Nick's video helped me a lot and made sense to me.
I think you’re seeing amateurs do things and you don’t have the correct cause of their issues. Most players would benefit from rotating their body more, not less.
Appreciate your comments though!
@TPA tennis I got a coach actually, my problem is actually the opposite when I do the throwing motion, forward elbow, he kept saying that I over rotated my body, he is pretty old coach who cannot explain really well but cheap haha.
Send me a video to tpatennis at gmail
Thanks for the tips. But a couple key areas have t been addressed. A Shoulder tilt and throwing with a loose bendable elbow is one requirement, but no mention was made of the lower links in the kinetic throwing chain. His footwork is good but very little knee bend. I’d be hesitant to tell him to bend his elbow. I’d say push the legs and thrust the hips/torso and the loose arm will fly around the elbow will drop.
Sounds easy...
I think what you said was good. I’d just add a little leg push starting the chain. Most people who aren’t good throwers try to put all the pieces in place but without leg extension and torso thrust it won’t be as good a throwing motion. Legs, hips, shoulders thrust and a relaxed arm will lag and snap. Am I right? You’re a good coach. I’m still studying the serve. It’s part throwing motion and part striking motion.
I think what you said was good. I’d just add a little leg push starting the chain. Most people who aren’t good throwers try to put all the pieces in place but without leg extension and torso thrust it won’t be as good a throwing motion. Legs, hips, shoulders thrust and a relaxed arm will lag and snap. Am I right? You’re a good coach. I’m still studying the serve. It’s part throwing motion and part striking motion.
@@swalterstennis your observation is good. As you know, it’s just difficult to make adjustments with most players so you have to pick the lowest hanging fruit and make incremental adjustments and see how they react to each advice/task.
Many coaches will have guys serve from their knees to show you don't need the legs at all if you have a good racket drop. The main issue is tension. The arm and shoulder need to be very relaxed to allow a full racquet drop, and you can't fix tension with more tension, trying to hit the ball harder can increase tension, it is something I struggle with especially during critical match points.
Brilliant instruction.
Nice and simple! Thanks
Great tips 👍🏻
That guy could be me, if I physically drop my racket down my back my elbow dpoesnt go forward and up, I want it to drop by using bigger muscles and relaxing as I can do great shadow swings but the brain says go to the ball during real serve from serving wrong too long. I have srarted working on just serving forward more until the drop happens and slowly build the tilt but not too soon.
Yeaaaaassssssss!!!! Tom can you do some type of coaching training session? Zoom maybe or online thang? I would sign up. I've been watching your videos for years and have benefited so much. Every think of that????🤔🤗🤗
Go to my website. Link in description 👍🏻
Some folks don't have the shoulder mobility to execute a deeper racquet drop
Legs should be driving forward to affect a natural racquet drop
So to practice this instead of skimming rocks into a lake I should slam them into the lake?
Throw it as far as you can into the lake, then get back to me
yap, but you should practice with racquets. preferably new ones.
tried it, throwing motion is sublime but I have no rackets now. Terrible video dislike unsubscribe
I had to giggle at your "pick the lowest hanging fruit" comment Tom. Is this a polite way of saying some students are dim lol!
@@norelleholgate8930 No. Not at all
Tom Mr Content Allsopp
Nomsayin
❤
Yes, but do the throwing off the back foot not the front foot.
Incorrect. It’s initiated off the back leg but you transfer to front before you throw/hit.
@@TomAllsopp Incorrect? This is where you "show off" both your physics and throwing ignorance. The front foot should experience minimal downward pressure compared to the back foot - you could even be on tip-toe off the front foot to prove this to yourself. Instead you prefer to be an ignoramus. Sam Groth who had the fastest serve ever was a back foot stomper. Look him up. He wasn't much of a player, but he could serve a bomb as he leaned back to engage the back foot off the ground his front foot was tip-toe.
@@drbonesshow1 how does he move his back foot up to his front foot with all the weight on his back foot?
@@TomAllsopp I thought your were the self-proclaimed no nonsense tennis guy - because now you are talking nonsense. Yes, as Groth steps up (as a step-up stance server) he shifts weight momentarily to the front foot, but then he shifts back onto the back foot before launching off the ground. In his brief shift to the front foot the throw or swing portion of the movement has not been reached. It is only after shifting to the back foot does the throw or swing reach the activation point, which is both swift and explosive. Roddick did something similar. I created the Reverse Step-up Stance so that servers could get full use of the back foot for a powerful serve. Something you and other tennis instructors would never have thought of considering what little knowledge of physics in connection with human biomechanics you have at your disposal. You should give both the Reverse Step-up Stance and my other serve initiative the Step-back Platform Stance a try.
@@drbonesshow1 post a video of you demonstrating this please. I keep asking for videos but you never send anything.
Nope
Never trust a coach who comes to the practice dressed like this.
Oh stop nitpicking.