Springfield Armory Prodigy vs Girsan 2311 vs Live Free Armory Apollo 11
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- 2011s are all the rage right now - and these guns are some of the more attainable versions of the guns. So we look at the Girsan Witness 2311, the Live Free Armory Apollo 11, and the Springfield Armory Prodigy.
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They really missed an opportunity when they called it the apollo 11 instead of apollo 13. Imagine having your apollo 13 jam in a gunfight and getting to scream "houston we have a problem" as your famous last words.
I got my 4.25 prodigy down to a 3 pound trigger pull with just a sear spring adjustment and a 17 pound mainspring. The stock mainspring is REALLY heavy. Runs great.
true - it's set up for "works with a wide range of shooters and ammo" - if you set it up for light loads and tweak the sear spring - easy enough.
I bought the 5" Prodigy last year, put ~1500 rounds through it, then did a ton of upgrades from EGW & Atlas (sear, disconnector, hammer, main spring, sear spring, trigger, shoe, mag well, guide rod and absolutely love the thing. Glad to see more and more manufacturers are hopping on the platform too.
All the normal stuff people would swap in Loaded 1911s. Its a Springfield thing to pour in another $400 or so to make them run.
@@somebrains5431 Lol, I didn't need to do anything to "make it run" - it ran flawlessly out of the box. I just like modifying things. I am not a Springfield fanatic (the Prodigy and a M1A are the only Springfields I own out of 60+ firearms currently) but over the last two decades or so I have probably had 30-40 firearms by them (a few 1911s even) and never had an issue - they just didn't appeal to me enough to be "keepers." Here is something that will melt your brain - I have had numerous Kimbers over the years - and they all worked too. I always laugh when someone makes over-arching blanket statements about large manufacturers. Even more stereotypical your channel is all video game footage..... When you have shot long enough - you will be pretty neutral on brand and form an opinion per product. One of those with experience comes wisdom kinda things?
It makes sense to get a prodigy if you intend to personalize it and make specific modifications... A lot of people crap on it, however a lot of people who do are not used to shooting and/or maintaining a 1911/2011 style pistol. There are better options, most with a bigger price tag, and some that you can completely have customized for you. I personally think the 2 most innovative designs are Platypus and the Oracle Arms 2311, but both cost more. Just because a few people crap on something, doesn't mean it's a bad gun. At least you love yours!
I did the same. 5" prodigy ran great out of the box for about 5k rounds. But then my friend got an atlas, and I have now gone down the rabbit hole of modifying my prodigy with new egw and atlas internals/parts, etc. Got mine for $900, and about $600 in parts. Ill take it any day at that price point. Customizing it exactly to my liking.
@@chen_shoots that's awesome!
Great job on this buddy extra attention to the more affordable options out there most of these 2011s are very pricey and this video keeps the large percentage of us in mind that can’t afford them.
BTW, to afford Wilsons and Nighthawks and SVI Infinity and TRPs I sold all my Sig Legions, and Smith revolvers and a shotgun because once you shoot a Nighthawk, you’ll never want to shoot the others; it’s just night and day. Thanks David.
But what do you carry edc / ccw since you sold everything for one gun? You using a Nighthawk or Infinity for ccw?
Yep, Nighthawks are some of the very best looking 1911/2011's out there. Sadly, with the one gunsmith mantra, you never know exactly what you are getting Many who collect them say there is a wide difference if fit and performance. If they would only learn how to hard fit them, or at least offer the service, they would match their
price with actual quality. Not just good looks.
KnifeMaker
I hope you arent doing EDC with it, if you end up using it in a self defense shooting, you wont get it back. Expensive pistols have a habit of being "accidentally" destroyed or lost when its taken into custody for the investigation. It will go home with some officer. It happens more than you would think.
@@ManOfChaiTea 😂
@@ManOfChaiTeaBull! How much have you paid in Auto insurance over the years. Unless you really need it it is money down a hole but you have it required or not. You can't tell me that it is not worth loosing money on a high end anything if it saves your live or the life of a loved one or innocent bystander. What is an innocents life worth. Only the cheapest prevention available?
I think a rethink of your priorities may be in order.
KnifeMaker/Retired after over 47+ years in the Craft
Having owned a Prodigy and the LFA, I like the LFA better. There is less parts to replace on the LFA and it's $400 cheaper to start. I have regular size hands and the grip also feels better on the LFA. The main thing I don't like is the cheap safety.
New to the channel but I like your style and delivery, you don't come off as a gun bro, but rather a practical guy who knows his stuff. Getting the 4.25 Prodigy for EDC. Thanks for the informative review.
Just make sure to break it in. A lot of cycles
@@BloodySoup74 Like 200 rounds? What is your idea of breaking it in? I usually go through a box of 200 at the range. I know there are alot of mods available for the Prodigy as well, I'll probably do some of those over time.
@@_EightySix Just saying hand racking cycles. Like 1000-1500 times before going to the range. Clean it and cycle. Clean it and cycle it. Keep repeating that. These Prodigy's come heavily coated with cerakote. That's why some Prodigy's have problems. The slide gums up bad. Watch some reviews on it. After that you should have no problems with it.
The Prodigy is going to be your best “budget” 2011 platform. I’ve shot them all. And with a little work I would consider the prodigy to be comparable to my staccato CS. And With a little factory refinement I think the prodigy would be even more popular than it is. But it’s still new, so maybe they will fine tune some things.
it's a pretty solid platform to build off of.
The question is, can it be fine tuned economically enough to be worth the work? I like projects and I'm not intimidated by doing mods, but I hate to drop an equal amount of money to what would have worked out of the box.
@@puddintame6310 you can replace all the mim internals, put a good trigger job on it, and be well below the price of a staccato.
@@leftyo9589 , thank you!
I think it’s smart to save and learn on a budget double stacked 1911. You can also learn about tuning tricks without breaking the bank.
all true.
I got the prodigy 4.25 it's kinda a early model and it's been awesome so far. It's not the best but for me I think it's cool. I want to get others now like the bul armory, the platypus or later the sticatto. Great video really enjoy the content
thanks man! I shot the Bul Armory Tac (21 manufacture) - it's awesome.
The Bul Armory offerings hit way above their weight. Truly a best buy!!! ;
I have a witness 2311. We took it apart and looked at the sear spring. It was a THICC piece of crudish medal. I bought a wilson combat spring and the pull dropped down to 5lbs without tuning (which made me extremely pleased). The trigger still has a little take,but is crisp. I noticed mine jumped a little hard from the aluminum frame, but still shoots fine. I did see someone send theirs off to get v ported, and im probably going to do the same for mine. I heard that rock island and other 1911 type pistoks always came with a very stiff crude sear springs. I agree on what you said about the extractor as well. Hot brass in the face is never fun
Awesome video as expected.... 🔥 now lets see a tisas and Mac 9 comparison
I love my Tisas 1911 DS Carry. Did a EGW Sear and Atlas trigger on it and it shoots like a dream. Had to tune the ejector from the factory, it was misfeeding and failing to eject. After the ejector tune it ran great just did the sear and the trigger for reduced pull 7 LB down to 4.5 LB with $65 in parts
I plan on getting into those.
@@TheHumbleMarksman good deal, the mac 9 is proving to be the best bargain 2011 at this moment for reliability, features... the tisas ds 9 also is proving to be reliable but the optics cut is wonky
Id like to see another video with these same 3, the tisas, Mac and just dor shits and giggles throw in your tanfoglio and sas II
I’d go with the Springfield Prodigy because Hilton Yam at 10-8 Performance has done an exhaustive evaluation of the platform both 5” and 4.25”. In a fan of Springfield; I have a TRP in .45 with a 2.5 lb trigger. I like a heavy gun, my wife likes a heavy gun with a beefy grip which is why she carries either her Nighthawk Shadowhawk or Wilson Combat Professional. We also went with a 6” SVI Infinity that weighs 3 pounds empty, 4 with a loaded magazine. There is simply no point buying a cheap 19 or 2011 with MIM parts, though the TRP has some. Best Regards.
It's great to hear from another viewer who saw Hilton's videos on them!!
Hilton Yam also highlighted the things the Prodigy had to have done to it to make it reliable as it was not out of the box. Somehow you left that part out!
KnifeMaker
Its the normal full springs, ignition parts, slide stop. The Springfield slide stops seem to be .180 ish when a standard .200 would work better. The mag catch doesnt surprise me. At least on a DS swapping out the mainspring housing to ditch the ILS system isnt a thing.
Most Springfield 1911 owners are used to dumping the parts list in the 10-8 video immediately.
The safety tended to be really sharp at the tip.
Extractor was meh, ditch if it lost tension regularly and quickly.
@@michaell397 We got lucky, because my wife's and my Prodigies BOTH ran perfectly right out of the box. And she got an early one. I only changed stuff on mine, as I said, out of personal preference.
I have had my Prodigy for about a month and a half now. It runs like a striped ass ape. Including right out of the box. But because I wanted it to be "mine", I added an EGW slide stop (slightly wider paddle), an EGW metal MSH, EGW heavy duty thumb safety (sleeve over the legs of the safety for rigidity), EGW ignition kit, an Atlas Gun Works flat medium trigger, and a 10-8 Performance mag catch, a Dawson Precision tooless guide rod,and a Holosun HE507K-GR ACSS Vulcan reticle. I am a hardcore 45ACP guy, but I have to admit...I absolutely LOVE this pistol!!
That's more or less everything but a grip and magwell.
@@TheHumbleMarksman Well, the slide and barrel are still original.😉😉But like I said, I just wanted the gun to be "mine".😀
What do you think about the EGW metal mainspring housing. It wasn't on my original parts list, but I'm considering getting rid of the polymer msh
@@chen_shoots I like it...the machining is nicely done, and it fit with no problem. The plastic MSH on mine seemed to drag against the polymer grip frame, making it difficult to install/remove, so I thought that the metal would interface better, which it did. I also wanted to add a tiny bit of weight to the rear of the gun. I'm glad I bought it.
I have Prodigy 4.25. Cheely grip, infinity ignition system, red dirt trigger and a Steiner mds. It’s my first 2011. Well worth it. Still came in cheaper than a staccato and I learned a lot working on it myself.
there are lots out there like that - they seem to be great guns. A guy local to me built up a prodigy while waiting for Infinity to finish his limited optics build and he really likes it - still has it as a backup for his infinity.
@@TheHumbleMarksman this pistol surprised me I recommend them all the time.
It looked to me like you had a good optic on the Springfield and shit for brains on the other 2. Also, in the slow motion return should the 4.25 not be faster than the 5 in? The pew view guy was,shooting the apoll11 and killing it at from 25 yards to 200 hundred with iron sights banging steel at 150 yard with one hand. Him and the honest outlaw loved it for the price I guess I'll go with their reviews even Mrs. Outlaw shot better if you want to watch the video!!
I work in a LGS that carries Stuccato, Wilson Combat, Cabot, NightHawk, Watchtower and SA. We just ordered the LFAs and Tisas 1911 DS/2011s as well. We sold out our 6 Watchtowers in a few days and both Cabot Insurrections. In 2 weeks. Its a 22-24 month waiting list to get the Nighthawks.
Sales on Stuccatos and Prodigys have tapered off since all the new offerings have been showing up lately. Glad to see so many new choices out there. I wish BUL would offer their guns through distribution so we dould pick those up as well.
I just looked up the Watchtower and was rather unimpressed with their claims. Grandiose as the claims were, the descriptions left a lot to be desired.
Hand assembled? All 1911's are hand assembled. Now had they said hand fit, that is an entirely different matter.
PVD Coating? Far less expensive and far less long lived than DLC. Another Clue.
Life Time warranty? How many time have I heard this old saw form fairly new companies just to see them fade away in short order.
And the Biggie, Military experience? Living in a town next to the largest military base in the Free World, I can tell you that soldiers are not anywhere near expert on finely crafted firearm's. Nor do they know how to even so much as take care of the. Most cant shoot for carp! LEO's are eve works. Some of worst shots across the board I've ever seen. Exceptions sure. But exactly that. Exceptions.
KnifeMaker
@@michaell397 I'm not going to deny I'm biased since I know the guys at Watchtower. But understand their finishes aren't the PVD you're conflating it with. They bought the process for it when they acquired F1 Firearms and it's manufacturing facility. It's a few miles down the road from me. Their coatings are on some of the finest bolt carrier groups made today. Slicker than Nickle Boron and just a resistant to carbon and wear. You can clean them with the wipe of a rag, even unlubricated with no solvent.
The grandiose marketing about "military tested" may be over the top and perhaps even misleading but, as with most marketing, there is a grain of truth in it. It's a veteran owned and run small company with guns in the hands of several pipe hitters whose names you'd know. Same with G2 Precision, also local to me. They're partnered with "Team Never Quit", run by severa formerl Navy Seals, two who gained some fame in a movie I'm sure you'd recognize. One who almost nobody knows his name but everyone should.
Does such affiliation make their guns great? Well, they aren't just paid for endorsements, they participated in the process of design, parts selection and one of them bought a Fix-It-Stick and was building guns for our display last time we had a vendor day at the store. He'd just got back from a contracting gig in Ukraine. Our shop attracts a "Who's Who" in the private club area from the SF and political world around TX.
Maybe they're great guns, maybe they're not up to your standards, you get to decide that. I can tell you they're all great guys I love supporting. I hope they succeed beyond their wildest dreams. I will do my part to help them any way I can.
I can vouch for the PVD coating - I handled the PewView Apache prototype and it was well loved and the coating was no worse for the wear. The "magwell abuse" to finish abuse ratio was very high - meaning the grip had the snot beat out of it but the finish didn't show it as a high burn gun.
@@MartyBuggthis is good to hear Marty! I guess part of my caution is having somewhat bought into the Staccato stick which is similarly pushed. I picked up a C-2 and I can tell you it is no where the gun claimed. More hype than substance.
For instance upon through inspection I was shocked to see that the entire trigger group was nothing more than simple drip in parts. No fitting what so ever. Not even the sear face was smoothed much less angle set.
I called to see if it was a mistake an was told it was indeed hand fitted. What I learned in the conversation that they had no idea what the difference between hand assembled and fitted was. All 1911's are hand assembled. All the way down to the lowest quality on the planet. Some how they were under the impression that since a human dropped the parts in and not a robot. (WTF)! That that was hand fitted.
Uh, NO!!! Not even close.
If they spent as much money and time in learning the finer points of their craft as the do in supplying free guns to influencer's on t e tube they could have the superior platform they claim to.
KnifeMaker
@@michaell397 one of our gunsmith left us to go work for Stuccato. They are production guns and not large enough yet to keep up with demand for the past 3 years. There is a QC difference between just pats assembly and checking for tight tolerance between fitted assembled parts. They do an above average job in this regard but they don't lap slides to frames and hand fit every part, very few gunmakers do.
Stuccato is well above most production guns but not custom gun makers like Nighthawk and Cabot. Even Wilson Combat is not to that level. But.. they also don't cost $7K like a Sand Hawk or Insurrection. Expectations need to match cost in most cases and I feel they do.
Stuccato CS, C2, P, XL and XC all give you about what should be expected at $2200 to $4600 price point paid. There are production Sigs at that price like the new X5 lineup. True custom guns are a breed apart and often carry hefty price tags. We have a Cabot Jones Deluxe at around $40K and that's not even close to thier most expensive offering.
You have really become one of my favorite reviewers. Very very practical.
I've been waiting for this video. I just ordered the apollo. Should get it early April
You won't be disappointed, I have one and I love it. the grip is sort of a love/hate thing. especially compared to the prodigy. I own them both and based off the reviews I keep seeing I am glad I held off on the witness.
@arsenal_27 yea u was close to buying the Witness last week since they had in stock locally but compared to the prodigy it felt cheap. The problems I heard about the prodigy kept me away too even though I loved the feel and look. Then that day I got the email I could order the apollo so jumped on it quick
the LFA gun is a couple clicks up from the Witness.
l have all 3. I love the feel and look of the Prodigy but the Apollo (with the same EGW upgrades) is just smoother than the Prodigy. The slide is super slick on the Apollo. The 2311 Girsan Negotiator with its 8 lb trigger comes in dead last. I smoothed out the disconnector, swapped out the leaf spring with the original Prodigy one and adjusted it. Still, it needs all new internals to be a contender.
Worth the price but know that you'll be swapping parts out. Same goes for the other 2 but the quality is just better on the Apollo and Prodigy. Girsan just kind of slapped a gun together. No hate on it but its also the least expensive and a great project gun. You could get it and gradually buy the parts for it.
Tisas and Mac 2011s next?
This please!!!
@@bigjb1820@SEAKPhotog Ditto
I have the Tisas BR9 DS carry model and it's ok not a terrible gun. But the Apollo and Prodigy are way better. I want the Mac next though
@arsenal_27 Yeah, the Mac is on my radar as a good 2011 with which to learn messing around with 2011 internals. Good price, good reviews (except for the botched optics plate that doesn't co-witness), no mim parts, full sized optics footprint, etc. I've got other 2011s but a decent "project" 2011 for under $1000 is very tempting.
@@SEAKPhotog You are right about that. It was the same thought process I had for my Apollo 11. I upgraded the internals, did a trigger job, and even ported it. Next thing I would love to do is change the grip and possibly repaint it.
The girsan is tailored for carry, hence the lightweight and heavier trigger, the ones we’ve had at the shop seem to be about 4-5lbs, with a really great reset.
Would have loved to have seen the mac 9 DS in this, i know you can't include them all though. I have one and it's fantastic. Swapped the grip for an MJD villain grip and tune the trigger down to 3.5lb. The firm wall on the trigger is phenomenal,the gun shoots soft and smooth. I love it.
I don't have on yet - once I get through some projects I'll check it out.
I have an Apollo 11 and really like it. I almost bought a Prodigy but opted to order a Stealth Arms Platypus instead. The Girsan looks great on the web page but I think that trigger knocks it out of the running. I shoot iron sights so I don't care about the optic footprint - call me an Olde Pharte 🤪
Same here, iron shooter so I don't care as much as others about optics. I do, however, want all my guns optic ready. LFA Apollo 11, Platypus, Bul Armory, Mac DS, Tisas, Oracle Arms all still in the running for me.
the platypus is a nice gun - you'll like it.
@@TheHumbleMarksman I may order one this year. I built a few on the website already.
I do like it. I like it so much I plan to buy another as soon as they release the .40&W chambering.
@@TheHumbleMarksman
I really appreciate this budget comparisons!! Can’t wait for the Tisas and mac9 reviews! Surprisingly, these budget reviews are pushing more and more to bul armory! It seems that price to quality, bul can’t be beat!
I'm a fan of Bul Armory - I filmed another video yesterday featuring the Tac 425 and the Air - they're awesome.
Great video! Would love to see the MAC added to this comparison test.
me too! Don't have one yet.
I sent my Apollo 11 to LFA after a first range session: failure to return to battery, failure to feed... every other shot. Got it back, supposedly fixed. Problem persisted, ran 230 rounds in my second range session, 100 malfunctions: failure to return to battery every other shot, failure to feed 8 times. Just feeding the magazine and racking the slide,would not return to battery. Funny, I have no problems with my Staccato C2 or my Bul SAS 425. Waiting for LFA to step up to the plate. Worried that "you get what you paid for"
Bummer. Mine has been rock solid with all sorts of rounds.
That's sad to hear. Mine generally ran OK - they wanted it back to smooth out the hiccups I did have around extractor tune.
Great video. You keep bringing me back to the Prodigy but I also keep looking at the Bul Armory.
Bul makes a hell of a gun.
If you can find one
Thank you for disclosing what you buy and what is sponsored
Some one sending in a gun technically is “sponsored” but realistically that’s how most reviews are done across all mediums including big name professional publications.
It looked like the forward-ejection casings on the Girsan were casings bouncing off that forward lip on the optic. I bet if you changed optic or ammo you'd get a different ejection pattern.
nope - it did it throughout it's 1000 round review as well. All ammo has an erratic pattern with it. The optic probably saved me a bunch of brass to the face.
Im waiting and hoping that the 4.25 lfa Apollo will be a good gen2 !
My “Armstrong” arrived today. Has some hang up on the disconnector. It’s not holding it open, but definitely dragging. I’m hoping a good cleaning and a few 100 rounds will take care of it.
Im curious about the Mac!
It really is a great firearm. I received mine about three weeks ago. Out the box the trigger is better than the Prodigy's and has no MIM parts. It really feels great in the hand, but the Prodigy's grip may still feel better to some. It also has a Bull barrel and has been a tackdriver for me so far. No failures at this point, but I'm only about 280-300 rnds in so far.
I did a video at SHOT on it - it's a good gun.
I may have missed it in the video, but why not put identical red dots on the guns you do head to heads for? Thanks for the great content, I am learning a lot from you, including the awesome dad jokes that I get to tell my 2 young children.
Logistics. Most dots are dots that ultimately get reviews done - but sometimes it’s optics cuts - these guns don’t take the same dot cut.
I bought an Apollo and love it. I attached a Holosun 507K to it and will be installing a 9lb spring in it here soon. I keep going back and forth on the grip. I'm tempted to replaced it with a aftermarket Staccato grip that I have stippled or even a used prodigy Grip. But idk, I can't decide.
It's a solid gun - the new ones are barking up the right tree - for sure
Can't Afford a Staccato so I'm going to get the Tisas Nightstalker SF 45ACP. It's a 1911 with the 2011 aesthetics. I already have a Tisas 1911 SS45R Duty and it's superb!
It would have been interesting to see how the Apollo would have faired with a decent optic. Mine has an EPS Carry that is great. I kind of lost interest in the shooting part when you said the optic was washing out.
Another great video. When will you review the Archon Type B? Would be wonderful to see what a competition shooters thinks of such a different gun.
He checked out the Strike One Speed, virtually the same gun with minor tweaks and a different importer
People like to crap on the Prodigy (and Springfield in general) but it’s actually a fantastic piece. Mine has been running 100% and is easily the flattest shooting pistol I’ve ever shot. “But MIM parts!” 😂 use the lifetime warranty if you actually need it.
Good video! I just installed a Holosun EPS MRS Green Dot on my Walther PDP Pro SD Compact and I'm very pleased with it because its window is the same size as my HE508T. I'm looking forward to your review of the MAC 1911 Double Stack. I'm interested in how it compares to the Prodigy.
You need to do the Apollo in the compact version. They took out the mim parts and it shoots like butter super flat flawless
Omg my red dots do that all the time too. Im like crap i missed the paper completely again, damn red dot
❤ Mr marksman. Any advice for people that use lenses 🤓 to read when shooting.? I appreciate your wisdom. Look forward to April”s fool content.
use a red dot and target focus? I'm not sure how to cope with iron sights other than developing the ability to shoot with a target focus and not a front sight focus.
I would include the Platypus in this mix David, cause after you factor in at least $400 on top of the $1,300 for the Prodigy, you are in Platypus price tag.
while it's an awesome SAO gun - it's not a 2011. It's a Glock mag Para - basically.
Surprised you didn’t add the platy in this comparison.
That Girsan looks like it could almost pass as a NYPD duty gun.
It would be funny to see a comparison of a PSA Dagger gucchi'd up vs the cheapest 2011.
Thanks for sharing!
Ok so one of these or a Optic Ready Shadow 2 is about the same price what would you get?
Now that's a tough one there..... 🤔
I'm in the same boat right now..
Shadow 2
For me - that's not a difficult choice - I can more easily make the ergos of a 2011 work for me and have a gun that has a better trigger (based on how it pulls - straight to the rear) and reloads easier (2011 mags come to the same point as a CZ but the opening in the grip is huge - even before a magwell. Plus working on a 2011 is a heck of a lot easier for a high burn rate gun.
@@TheHumbleMarksman well then I sure do appreciate the input of someone with experience in both the platforms. I'm also very familiar with a 1911 platform so I would assume it would be easy to pick up the 2011 style pistols. The cz definitely peaked my interest but I believe the points you hit on makes alot of sense. Thank you very much
I've got the LFA 5" and it shoots great, got the compact version on it's way. Only issue with the 5" LFA is the slide sometimes sticks when cocking it.
I'd be down for Sig to release a 2011 that runs on P365 mags with an external extractor.
1911 ignition parts compatible of course.
that'd be wild.
Thanks!
Well,
Not sure how old this video is ?
My comment is, I would buy a springfield grip module and put it on the LFA, yes it fits right on.
Might put a slightly heavier recoil spring in to reduce dwell time.
Add a shiny new KKM barrel eventually (I’d do this one for any gun I wanted to compete with) I think at the price point even with the upgrades I mentioned that could easily move the LFA to first place since it had the best trigger.
Not for everyone but many of us can make armorer level improvements to a pistol. Things like replacing a heavy mainspring or tuning an extractor are doable for a lot of us. Wonder how the comparison would be if one put an hour into improving each pistol.
I am capable of all of those things as well - but - I would get criticism the other way if I simply made each gun sing because I had modified it.
I bought an Apollo 11. Do you think the recoil spring assembly could be swapped out for say an Atlas?
Yes it can be swapped
Dunno why you would - just put a heavier spring in it
@@TheHumbleMarksman I guess I should have specified "...or replace spring" the standard one just feels too light. Causing the sluggish RTB like you noted in your video.
I would argue that the results could be slightly more accurate if you ran the same optic model on all your pistols (but I also like the LFA cuz it can get its barrel ported at a gun shop without needing to get your slide cut but also the skinner grip is probablybetter if you have smaller hands like me 😅)
Gooble Gooble, Gooble Time..... Tisas DS Nightstalker threaded barrel 1911 vs Prodigy Springer! Who has the stuffing and best gravy?
Of the 3 probably lfa but I think I'm going to get a tisas nightstalker. I have one of their 1911s and it
should be great for just a little more than the girsan.
I don't have any Tisas guns - I plan on checking them out.
The only things Springfield on my 4.25 are the barrel, slide, frame and grip module
Thanks for another great video.
No Platypus? I think they start at $1300(ish)?
It seems like the very consistent problems that SA is having with quality control on the Prodigy would keep it off any list.
Need to work out the cheapest grip improvement for the LFA. That and wonder how much of that slow dwell can be fixed soley by a spring swap.
Most of the dwell will go away with a stronger spring
I would like to see a springfield prodigy vs stealth arms platypus vs oracle arms 2011
Seeing the LFA have that much hang time in recoil makes me realize this is why I was never really fond of light recoil springs. I know they're best matched with lower power loads, but I'm kind of over loading powderpuff and have been shooting a lot of factory lately.
yeah I'm for sure getting a stouter recoil spring for it next time I make an order.
@@TheHumbleMarksman what weight would you go with? You mentioned it felt like a 9 lb?
I’m probably going to try a 10# in it when I go to order some new parts.
How would the LFA rank IF YOU SPENT the cost difference for the prodigy and 2311 HF ON IT
A staccato has become my goal this year cause the guy at the gun shop said I couldn’t afford it
they're solid guns. I'd recommend a steel framed P over an AL C2.
Where’d you get your hat?
I think you're talking about my whataburger hat - from their website.
I would like to see you do the review for Tisas 1911 double stack. It a very solid gun and cost lesser than those three guns.
I plan on it - but it's a ways out - I have too many projects to get through before I take on more
I really appreciate your methodical approach. I want to live the LFA. The rail seems so long. What would you mount that you need that many picatinny rail slots?
Yeah a shorter dust cover would be cool.
I'm curious with the LFA. I'd consider them the underdog being the smaller company. When you said "it dwells", I'm betting it's like my old Ruger p90 or a HK USP. Just clunky. Not a bad thing, as long as it's predictable IMHO.
it's a great shooting gun. Don't get me wrong.
Springfield Armory is a Leader in the Industry
They certainly have the 19/2011 market figured out
Have you got your hands on the Apollo 11 compact yet? I’d like to know your opinion on the compact vs the full size
I can’t be the only one that thinks the prodigy is not a 1200+ gun. The hype over 2011s are why they priced these guns so high. For 600 more you can get a decked out platypus with a load more value. For 1k more you can get into a staccato which is less valued but still better quality and reliability. My opinion of course. I’d pay no more than 1k for a prodigy
It’s a great gun.Yea a $1k more expensive Staccato is better…. It’s $1k more it should be 🤡
@@Logjammer69 totally missed my point. But you’re right
I would buy the Walther PDP Match Steel Frame. Love my PDP’s. Prodigy grip felt too fat.
the PDPSF is a pretty sweet gun for sure.
Simple
I do not want any plastic frame firearms the BDA is certain to be my choice.
The Beretta 84 magazine is compatible with the Browning BDA, I'd be shocked if Girsan didn't clone the magwell for compatability
Springfield prodigy. It’s on my list. Great video. How would you compare these 2011s to a beretta 92xi SAO?
They compare pretty favorably I'd say.
GREAT review although not entirely fair to the Apollo due to the bad optic. The fact that the Apollo stayed close with a washed out dot speaks volumes to me. I would most likely choose the Apollo in the Commander size. I love your videos!
yeah I was disappointed with that optic - it was fantastic on the overcast days I shot it.
What is your opinion on the Apollo full size vs compact (commander)?@@TheHumbleMarksman
No experience with their commander yet - I may be getting one soon.
@@TheHumbleMarksman If you had to choose between the Apollo 11 and the Prodigy what would you pick? I'm really only interested in the commander size 2011. This will be my first 2011 pistol and I really value your opinion.
Where is the RIA tac ultra? That was one of the ones I way eying for a minute but don't see a lot of vids on it.
You need a tisas DS carry in this line up .
I find it interesting that when you compared the C2, you couldn't shoot it well. When you tested out the Holoson 507C, you shot it with the Prodigy and liked it, and now in this comparison, you love the prodigy. You are one of the few people that choose the Prodigy over the C2. Just saying...+
What mods would you recommend to improve the performance of the prodigy and where to get the parts?
Egw sells the prodigy internals to replace the “MIM” parts with high end parts.
EGW ignition kit is a good start - trigger bow and shoe of your choosing - biggest must have is the guide rod and spring - thumb safeties if you feel the need
@@TheHumbleMarksman thanks!
Video - COMPED Prodigy ?
Are these reinvented Para p14"s ? The Canada built stainless P14 Limited is one of my favorite pistols.
no.
I can honestly say I wouldn’t roll the dice on any of these. I’ve seen too many people give up on their prodigy’s for sport shooting due to all the reliability issues.
I've seen several at matches working so dunno - I've seen plenty of "smiffed" CZs and Glocks not work too.
You’re absolutely right. Anyone can take a reliable gun and make it unreliable. The prodigy’s I’ve seen were all stock. One of which, was a first run model so that’s not completely surprising. Thanks for the content. I’ve been watching for years and value your input as I look at firearms from the same perspective of competition shooting.
I know why you didn't include the platypus in this video, but for $1400 it should be the default option among "affordable" 2011s
because it's not a "2011"
@@TheHumbleMarksman exactly. That's why I knew you didn't include it.
The Apollo 11is excellent. Virtually no recoil.
Thanks bro love your videos
I appreciate it
Unfortunately I can't do a review on my channel of the apollo because they don't ship to Puerto Rico. Only USA, but thanks to your video, I think I'll skip the Girsan. Excellent content like always. 🎉
Don't think you missed much based on what I've seen with the Girsan 2311. Personally, I'm leaning more toward the LFA Compact, Tisas 1911 DS or an Oracle Arms 2311 Compact. Bul Armory is still an option also.
@kevinallies1014 Pretty much what I've seen as the consensus on it. Def skipping Girsan on the 2311.
The Girsan trigger pull weight came down from nearly 8 pounds to 6.75 lbs.
@TheHumbleMarksman Thats still pretty heavy. I don't want a 2011 / 2311 platform over 4 lbs. 2.0-3.5 is ideal weights in my opinion.
Do you think the LFA pistol recoil spring is undersprung?
Yes
Can’t beat the Stealth Platypus. You can have it your way!
the platypus is awesome what they are doing
I have prodigy sorry no issues amazing gun people buy sigs,Glock,hk,and have issues overrated about issues 90% of cerokote
that's what I've observed as well.
Have you seen the new lineup of 2011s from tisas they seem to be way better than girsan and cheaper
I did a video on them from SHOT show - I don't have one yet.
@@TheHumbleMarksman my local shop had the 5 inch and its seems super smooth and tight
Tisas 1911s are known to be excellent, and I picked up the duty ds after selling my Stingray to a friend. It was a great pistol just wanted the doublestack! Now I have a carry ds waiting for me to pick up and I haven't even shot the duty yet! My duty is smooth, not exceptionally tight slide to frame (a little wiggle, but my Platypus is about the same), and the trigger is great right out of the box. I wouldn't hesitate on picking up a Tisas especially over the girsan. Also, qpq slide coating. Don't even get that on the platypus or prodigy.
Hello man, first things first, how much are the pistols I know the prodigy is $1300 what about the other two? I'm looking to make a project gun with one but keeping the cost well below the Staccato P. I like the LFA's looks but depending on price of the pistols will determine which one I will pick up. 😎
The prodigy is the most expensive on the table
@@TheHumbleMarksman I looked the other two up and found them to be under $1000... Which in your opinion do you find to be the better of the three?
Do the fusion xp pro next.
I'm working on it! Hope to have one in October.
I wish that the shield rmsx would either be adjustable or use a better darn auto adjust system for the money my original Swampfox sentinel A had a better auto adjust than the RMSX
Mine don't give me that trouble but you've put yours through more than I have mine!
Not sure if they made some changes but the dwell on my LFA is nothing like yours. I am considering milling off the rear sight so it takes a Deltapoint.
there have been some rolling changes - mine is set up with some absurdly light spring - I'm probably going to bump up my spring rate a pound or two.
mine is also one of the first 200 made (serial numbers start at 500) - they asked for it back and replaced the top end with a newer manufacture top end.
Platypus is a winner!!!
@thehumblemarksman what do you mean by saying the 5” prodigy is “even more comical”?
my 5" works and it's the softest shooting polymer grip gun I have if I exclude my XC. Stupid accurate - pretty cheap.
I have 15 thousand rounds threw my prodigy. Got it when they first dropped in a 4.25. I demim it all an use staccato mags. She runs flawless
Sooo, I got a 4.25 Prodigy, and I messed with it to the point where it's not reliably functioning...so just a heads up to people thinking about getting a cheap 2011, go ahead if you know what you're doing or if you're ok with potentially paying to get it running right. I might have been able to avoid the problem I'm having, but I'm not 100% sure, and now I'm just hoping that the local gunsmith can get things working right (I think it's something to do with the sear spring or the sear itself).
that's not good.
@TheHumbleMarksman It is what it is. I paid 1258 shipped for the gun, I decided to suck it up and pay the 350 for a gunsmith to install non mim components and set the trigger pull at 3lbs, and 50 bucks to fit a set of Atlas IDPA high rides. Definitely not the route I was hoping to take, but it's a learning experience all the same.
Just wanted to drop my experience as a little bit of a warning. If I could do it all over again, I'd have purchased a Girsan or RIA and learned on that, but I was eager to pick up something that I could compete with.