Wrestling with a judging problem
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Sabrina Cruz, Melissa Fernandes and Taha Kahn from 'Answer in Progress' discussion a question about a difficult situation to really wrestle with.
LATERAL is a weekly podcast about interesting questions and even more interesting answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit www.lateralcas...
GUESTS:
Sabrina Cruz: @answerinprogress, / nerdyandquirky
Melissa Fernandes: @answerinprogress, / mehlizfern
Taha Khan: @answerinprogress, / khanstopme
HOST: Tom Scott.
QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe.
EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin.
GRAPHICS: Chris Hanel at Support Class. Assistant: Dillon Pentz.
MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com).
FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd.
EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
© Pad 26 Limited (www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2023.
The 1912 Olympic games. Held in Stockholm. Also the game for the longest marathon race, in time. Over 54 years. Shiso Kanaguri competed in the marathon and never finished, because of the warm weather. Never reported that he had pulled out of the race and quietly went home, considered missing by the officials. In the 60s he was found and was alowed back to finish the race. Not sure if the time is officially recognised, but it can be found recorded to fractions of seconds.
When you have to account for leap years in your Olympic record
Imagine quitting so hard you are reported missing.
i read up on this/googled this and it's the best and funniest story i've ever read today. thank you. "He commented "It was a long trip. Along the way, I got married, had six children and 10 grandchildren.""
The 1904 marathon was pretty interesting too
@@lemonadeslices and he also did another marathon in another Olympic game 8 years later. So he did an Olympic marathon while doing another still
Ive said it before and ill keep sayin it until this becomes the norm: I fracking love Tom Scott's subtitles and just his overall outlook towards accessibility on all his channels.
It means a lot to me to see the subtitles moved just to the middle of the screen to not block the question; esp as someone who uses 50% background opacity bcuz it makes it best for me in most circumstances
+
He does buy his damned subtitles
Fracking?
I wish other prominent RUclipsrs would hire people to do captions, because it's frankly disgraceful how many huge (bigger than Tom in some cases) RUclipsrs involved in education, science, or similar have auto-captions, which are pretty bad.
By the way, if you need transcripts for the audio version, you can go to our main page, click on an episode page and download it: audioboom.com/channels/5097784-lateral-with-tom-scott
I'd like Sabrina to know that I loudly cackled at her "ran out of oil" joke that was - in the cut of this video at least - so criminally underappreciated!
You can target and use the lower body in freestyle wrestling, whereas Greco-Roman wrestling doesn't allow that (upper body only).
Thank you.
I almost had this happen to me in a local shooting competition.
my opponent and I hit all the targets, did a second round, same score, and we ended up shooting penalties
both hitting/missing the exact same until the organizers said they had to call it, this would be our last shots.
And I missed that last shot, much to the relief of the organizers, who now didn't have to figure out what to do with the first place award.
In some US states, nine hours of grappling would count as common-law marriage.
The funny bit is that at the same olympics the middleweight competition had in the final round a match, which lasted 11h and 40 minutes. Unfortunately its winner had in the threeway final round to do another final match and was unfit to compete due to exhaustion (so got only silver). BTW: Men B event is the light heavyweight one.
In the US we call the style that has evolved here "Folkstyle". "Greco-Roman" and "Freestyle" are the two Olympic styles.
Saw the video on FB and this bugged me enough to come to RUclips to check that someone had mentioned this. 🤼♂️⭐️
4:28 Okay, who's gonna tell Sabrina the good news? :P
But also the bad news that it's literally just this bit for some reason
It feels strange for them both to get silver, while in the last olympics a tie in a high jump event resulted in both athletes getting gold.
Tom said that the rules at the time were written such that gold could only be awarded if the person getting it defeated their opponent
Rules were clear in wrestling, you had to defeat you opponent to win. High jump, they both clear the same literal bar, they are equally champions. Also very possible rules have changed in the last 100 years.
Each sporting federation has different rules is my guess.
Ah, I missed that. Tnx
Honestly, the fact they wrestled for such a long time makes me feel like they both deserve two gold medals.
In honour of this match wrestling competition finals here in Stockholm (we hosted the 1912 Olympic Games) are traditionally scheduled to last 9 hours in the schedules.
;)
we finally know what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. they tie for second.
I have to agree with Sabrina: _extremely_ sad that this is not a video podcast!
"The answer is not THAT morbid" implies the answer is morbid in some way. I feel cheated with the real answer in the end 😅
My favorite trio on Lateral
hahahah Tom getting the teacher look with "it is Not That Morbid" is awesome
I guess it might be based on how the rules are written, in a race you have to set the least time so if two have the same time they both get the same position. But in wrestling, you have to defeat the opponent. so if you tie, neither defeated the other so you both lose. Instead, if the rule for racing would have been that you have set a faster time compared to others, a tie would have resulted in a loss for both
I know they will both be long dead but they should be posthumously be awarded golds
Why?
It's a good thing that you are not on the committee to decide tgat then
4:14 The judges get the gold
how did they keep fighting for 9 hours? even with like boxing type breaks, that's insane!
Greco Roman can be much slower than the other types of wrestling to where the competitors just get stuck in under over grips during the standing and are unable to get a turnover in par terre on the ground
Middleweight B is (was?) an Olympic wrestling classification for men greater than 75 kg but less than or equal to 82.5 kg.
Both would surely have been seen as winners in everyone's hearts though.
1:11 Tom "I apologise to ancient Greece"
Me: "Habea chill..eas? Multiplicanum est"
This is the whole reason they decided to rig pro wrestling in the 1920s. matches were all stalemates, made more money to fake it like people were already doing in fairground wrestling exhibitions. On a long timeline this 9 hour olympic match: That's how you get Hulk Hogan
Surprisingly, the gold medal match between Ahlgren and Bohling was not even the longest of the 1912 wrestling championships. On a scorching summer day, Russian wrestler Martin Klein required 11 hours and 40 minutes to defeat Finland's Alppo Asikainen in the semi-finals of the 'Middle Weights A' class. Klein's victory was bittersweet since he was so weary that he did not fight the gold medal on medical advice.
I love how Melissa pretends she has a clue where this is going at 1:30. 😂
Should have given them electrum medals.
Taha just described the origin of WWE wrestling and tag teams at the end :D
But in 1900, Equestrian High jump shared gold medal, apparently you can share an Olympic gold madal in a tie but not in a draw?!?
I think it's more of how the rules are laid out. Specific to Olympic Greco-Roman Wrestling, Tom pointed out that a gold could only be awarded to someone who had bested their opponent. I don't know if that same contingent stood for the Equestrian High Jump.
the way the rules were written, you have to actually defeat your opponent to win gold, and neither one was able to defeat the other
4:16 This is basically like "I didn't hear no bell"
American high schools do not do Greco-Roman wrestling. We do Folk Style wrestling which technically is US only. So for us Greco Roman and Freestyle is international competition only.
Grecoroman is not the primary wrestling style in American schools. Folkstyle or collegiate wrestling is the most practiced and it’s more like Olympic Freestyle wrestling. Grecoroman is also a modern invention by a Napoleónico officer and does not reflect πάλε or Ancient Greek wrestling.
So... any one of them could have given up in the first minute and... still get a silver medal... 😬
apparently, class B is "light heavyweight"
this reminds me of the prisoner's dilemma somehow
that's interesting. so both were so good that they could only tie.
Interesting, I know fairly recently there were two gold medals awarded to olympians who were tied with one another and agreed to each be awarded one! I guess the rules changed
Im glad that changed bcuz two wrestlers lastin nine hrs **both deserve gold**
i cudnt do a 9hr work shift of any kind, let alone a 9hr wrestling shift xD
I think for sports like swimming, if the final ends in a tie, they just award two gold medals. Easier than messing up the schedule by adding another race just between the two winners.
@@myladycasagrande863 I guess it might be based on how the rules are written, in a race you have to set the least time so if two have the same time they both get the same position. But in wrestling, you have to defeat the opponent. so if you tie, neither defeated the other so you both lose. Instead, if the rule for racing would have been that you have set a faster time compared to others, a tie would have resulted in a loss for both
American high schools dont do Greco-Roman wrestling. They do folkstyle
*freestyle
@Lady Casagrande *Folkstyle. Olympic wrestling does freestyle but American High School & NCAA wrestling is folkstyle
@@27pattywhack2 what's the difference? (Besides the name, obviously)
@@myladycasagrande863
Folkstyle ruclips.net/video/OwUEPby3Bko/видео.html
Freestyle
ruclips.net/video/gp-hWr-opUc/видео.html
Why didn’t they just give them both Gold? Cause I know nowadays that’s not unheard of, but I’m curious to know if that had been in practice back then
I presume it's to stop "sandbagging" where neither competitor truly tries to win, in the hope that the both bag golds.
@@lateralcast I think it is also the way martial sports are scored, they are generally scored based on victory/defeat. Athletic events and such don't have this problem as they are scored on some other metric of performance like time, distance, height, etc thus if two competitors have the same score after all attempts are used, then that is that they are tied for the same position.
as an ancient greek I accept your apology
i feel if both wrestlers last over 9 hrs they shud both get gold and give third the silver instd heh
Third place is always going to get bronze no matter what.
@@jobigoud That makes me sad heh. I love that such isnt rly the standard for casual competitions and for video games and card games and the like.
Im used to it bein that if two ppl take first place, then what wudve been third place is now second place and fourth place is third place. I dont pay attention to any sportsball stuff tho, so not that surprised to hear its diff there heh
Reminds me of the 2021 Olympic high jump finals where they were going to a jump-off as the only remaining competitors. The favorite says to the official "Can we just have two golds", official says "Well, there is a way....." the lower ranked jumper just starts crying and celebrating... Great scene, and one that everyone should see. Search '2021 olympic high jump gold share'
Might need a VPN because screw you NBC & IOC.
Blind guess: the gold medal winner died of its injuries before receiving the award.
In retrospective: I like that ending better.
Did the high jumpers not recently get two gold medals? They drew
So many questions, did the judges stayed there for 9 hours? The same referee had to be there for 9 hours? None of the wrestlers had to go pee in 9 hours? Did they get to drink anything in 9 hours?
I'm thinking that might have been part of the deciding factor to cut the competition. 9 hours of not having eaten anything (probably more since digesting and competing at the same time is a horrible idea,) drank anything (as well as 1912 hydration was understood seeing how well the 1904 Olympic Marathon went,) or really rested for much of any period of time, they basically were doing something equivalent to a death march. So I'd imagine by hour 3 they were already slowing down, hour 6 they might have been dry heaving and overheating, and hour 9 was just them going on sheer willpower. Was it worth the silver? Dunno.
No one can do nine hours of anything except watch RUclips.
*laughs in underpaid amazon warehouse workers*
"No no no I clean now or I no clean"
That guy was robbed! That other guy was also robbed!
It almost feels like a kind of casino. The International Olympic Committee that year was the house and they obviously kept the gold for themselves. 😅
The image sharpening that I'm assuming was applied to Taha Khan in the thumbnail makes it look like someone AI'd them in that pose after the fact. A bit of weirdness going on in their camera.
Greco Roman Wrestling is like when a british person says American Football
The wrestling filibuster
American high schools??? Unless a lot has changed since my own high school years, what is played in American secondary schools is freestyle wrestling. Greco_Roman wrestling is all above the waist.
Now, I don't know much about greco-roman wrestling, but I'm gonna assume that they can't have toilet breaks in the middle of a match...
They were enjoying it too much?
Sorry Tom, it's pro wrestling all the way down. Greco-Roman wrestling as it was then called and the style present in US high schools today is a modern (19thC) style evolved by the same folks who were developing what is pro wrestling today. It has no connection to the original style.
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Both pronunciations of "Greco-" are acceptable. (OED only supports /ˈɡriːkəʊ/ but every other source I can find allows either.)