Preflop I would definitely mix in some 4-bets with the 4th best hand in poker, LJ vs. SB. Flop is a 100% bet, turn is a very, very clear raise. River is close, QTs would make sense, maybe some AQ that decided not c-bet for some reason. But we're really just making life extremely difficult for ourselves with the line we have taken here...
Thanks Bart for always having relevant information like position, effective stacks, blinds, etc. Too many videos don't include this information and it is frustrating.
Sometimes I’ll slow play top set on an Uber dry board but this isn’t it. If V has AK or AQ, which seem like very likely holdings when V checks flop, he’ll call a small bet. As played I’m 100% raising turn. If he has KQ (or 87 if he even 3-bets that) that decided to check flop so be it.
I also like slow playing top set because you block top pair so much, whereas middle set and bottom set are much better to fast play because they can get called by top pair. And this board is a rainbow board on the flop, which makes it easier to check back, too. But a J-10 board has so many straight draws or pairs that can call a bet. I just can't see the villain check-folding a straight draw (even a gut shot), or a pair of Jacks or a pair of 10s. It's so hard to find a hand that doesn't have a pair or a straight draw. The hand the villain actually had turns out to be one of those very few hands that doesn't have a straight draw or a pair on the flop. So in this very specific situation, it worked out that he checked back the flop. But in general, I agree with you that hero should bet this flop. I'd be a bit worried about raising the turn because I could see the villain checking K-Q with the goal of check-raising the flop. But I think you're right that it would make sense to raise the turn.
@@gabrielrockman yeah most hands that aren’t pairs are going to be overcards + gutshots often with a backdoor flush draw as well so I don’t see too many check folds from V. Your point about KQ potentially looking to check-raise is fair so it’s not completely out of the question it’s true but even the odd time you run into the nuts you have 20% so I think I’m raising.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj What hands are you looking to get called by if you raise the turn as the hero? Flush draws would call, as they probably also have a straight draw or a pair (or both). But would a pair and a straight draw be enough to call a raise on the turn with no flush draw? Having top set really cuts down on the two pair possibilities for the villain. Would a hand like QJ or Q10 call a raise on the turn? Would a hand like AK or AQ call a raise on the turn with just two overs and a gut shot? That's why I'm not sure if raising the turn makes sense from the hero's perspective. It's not a horrible move, because you're only worried about KQ or 8-7, and those often bet the flop. But when you're heavily blocking top pair, I'm not sure how much you can get called by.
@@losyart Yes, but do people call a raise just because they're open ended? I'm not sure if a hand like AQ, QJ, Q10 etc. calls just because they're open ended. Some fish are incapable of laying down a hand when they've got an open ended straight draw on the turn, but it sounds like the villain wasn't one of those fish.
I feel like villains line is often a combo draw, pair + FD or at least nut flush draw, think checking back flop is fine but you gotta raise turn, however you get the same amount of value in this case as hero would of probably raised to about 500-600
On flop, I was thinking V might have checked planning to x/r, because hero's going to have a lot of Jx in his range that will want to bet for protection against V's unpaired over-card combos.
That’s a good point. Any overcard combo vs Jx will also have a gutshot, so I don’t think hero is checking back any Jx and maybe not even Tx. I could definitely see betting AT as hero since AK has 7 outs and you wouldn’t expect AA/KK/QQ/Jx to check to you.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj You make a good point. I wasn't even thinking about the straight draws. I was just thinking that V could have 3B pre with AA/KK/QQ/KQ/TT, and this is a flop that probably favors the original opener's range more than the 3B'ers. A c-bet is just going to fold out most of hero's 99 and worse holdings, but hero might bet with 88/99/Jx/Tx and some KQ/89 combos, some of which are going to continue to a flop x/r. I wouldn't think hero would check back very much with JT, and would usually bet any Jx, which is why I think it's fine to take the betting lead and bet JJ here on the flop when V checks, hoping V x/r's with AA/KK/QQ/TT/KQ.
OMG I need to get back to playing at Mohegan ASAP. But it will suck finding out who has died since I last played there on March 15, 2020. Many of my friends there were older than me, and I'm now on SS and Medicare, lol They shut down on March 16 halfway through the day. I know which two days this year will be best there, Bart. Offer stands of a Mohegan tour, if I'm in town on those days. Might be traveling out west, schedule isn't known yet.
People always try and get fancy or over complicate things. Remember… we bet to 1. Increase the pot in case we win (and that doesn’t mean over bloat the pot. I would have bet about 35% on the flop as I’m in position and since the 3 bettor checked this flop configuration gives me the nut advantage) and 2. To deny equity (meaning we want to put pressure on hands that have potentially good equity and cause them to fold, thereby denying that equity. Those are the two reasons you should be betting. And certain factors like position, number of opponents, and whether you or the opponent has the range or nut advantage will also help dictate your betting strategy. But checking back jacks on the flop is leaving good money on the table. Get your value when you can
The really really large OOP 3bet online is usually from the BB where most 3bet a polar range. SB most are 3betting linear and go somewhere between 4x-5x. BB 3bets huge and if playing correctly your 4bets are supposed to be tiny vs the BB since they either have a premium that isn't folding or a bunch of trash that folds to any size.
x flop behind? Depending on the opponent's profile. If the guy is nit, tight, then (he probably missed the flop), checking behind would: 1) make him believe that Im not that strong (trapping), 2) help him improve (on this dry board), and on later streets I could eventually make up for my checked back flop. If V is LAG, CS, then I'd never miss opportunity to bet here (top set, no draws!).
Personally im sometimes checking AQ on such boards cause i have lil bit of showdown value and doesnt want to get raised but thats only me. QJ, KQ and QQ im always betting and if i somehow 3bets some low suited queen im cbetting it as well
A reasonable result in the end after some questionable play on each street...I too like a raise on the turn, but if it's called and V continues to lead river with his bluff - probably bigger as well - or even worse decides to shove, it makes the sigh call even harder for me. If he raises the turn bet to say 600, V will call and then may check the river, so Hero can check it back or risk a value bet, but if it's checked the pot is pretty similar in size anyway. Glad Hero put the call in but would he have done so for half his stack? Pretty sure he's folding to a shove
Against this caller, maybe 133% gets a fold. But most players are not folding after they flopped top set. Hero's only losing to Qx, which is what V is repping, but hero beats the rest of V's value range and all his bluffs, and there isn't a lot of Qx that 3B's pre from the SB and then checks this flop. The way this was played, if SB has the betting lead pre, and gets this flop, AQ/KQ/QQ is going to c-bet here with a fair frequency, and KQ is going to bet larger on the turn. I'm not sure I'd buy V's story, even for 150% pot. V could have a lot of Ax of diamonds in his range, that could get to the river this way.
i was really surprised that Bart said JJ is never a 4bet preflop given the positions.. does this mostly have to do with the stack depth? I assume if they were 100 bbs deep JJ is a 4bet at least some of the time yeah?
I could be wrong,but I'd think it's better to just call the 3bet since he's in position.. if he was outta position MAYBE a 4bet.. but I just don't think 4betting jacks pre is ever going to be the most profitable Play unless the V is an absolute maniac
@@krisdiaz2277 Maybe against this specific opponent. Villian 3 betting A8s in the SB. I can only imagine he's pretty LAG or he has a read on hero that he can fold the 3-bets. Unless, Villian's 3-bet range is really wide which then makes him a candidate for 4-bets based on fold% to them. Either way, I want to get into this villian's game whenever I can.
7:34 at this point (River) H must be in a big trouble. (that's why he called in). (I did not see hand reveal yet). This is the example of how from a best hand and great position one puts himself in a shitty spot!?
I don't know if the caller played it to perfection. I like the way the villain played the hand on every street, but I think the caller should have bet the flop or raised the turn. Of course in this specific situation, the villain had one of the few hands that doesn't have a pair or a straight draw on the flop, but most of the villain's range should have either a pair or a straight draw on the flop and would call a flop bet. The turn gave the villain the nut flush draw and an open ended straight draw, so I don't mind the villain bluffing the turn and then bluffing a scary card on the river.
Nah he could have gotten way more had he bet the flop. Villain not folding to 1 bet to Bart’s point. Then when he turns such a massive draw I could see him check raising.
If caller raised the turn he could have possibly made more. Some people love to overplay their combo draws. He might’ve seen a 3-bet on the turn by the villain, or a call and a bluff on the river.
Caller was so obsessed with villain checking the flop lol, wasn’t that big of a deal both players hit this flop a lot LJ vs SB he’s supposed to check a lot. Don’t see much of a reason to think he can’t just have KQs or AQs etc.
The issue with betting with JJ after check is villain might be trapping AA, pot controlling weak ace or even strong king . U cannot push him off top set at any point and to do that against pot controlling range u have to bet multiple streets
So he has no 7x in his range, but he ends up here with A-8? I don't see why A-7 and A-8 would play preflop and flop differently. If he can have A-8 here, then he could also have A-7 here.
@@gabrielrockman Good point. In a lot of these discussions, people say V always has or never has Xx based on the action, yet we often find out V was just way out of line. I wouldn't expect V to have much 8x or 7x in his range when he 3B's pre, but I wouldn't necessarily rule it out simply because it's not GTO-approved.
He stated why, he was afraid that since he didn’t continuation bet he might fold. Obviously a small bet would have made sense. But I can see the logic in wanting him to turn a pair and get locked into the hand and make the most $$ possible.
the one time where i feel like bart a little mistake. why would you turn ur set into a BLUFF on the river? your hand has tons of showdown value, so whtat r u trying to bluff him off of? if he had a queen or seven hes obvs calling, and if he has anything BUT a Q or 7, u WANT him to call. youd be betting for value on the river not as a bluff.
This hurt my ears and brain. Doesn’t bet with the stone cold nuts on the flop 🐴 Doesn’t raise when AQ, AK and diamond draws 🐴. And doesn’t want to value bet the river when checked to him 🐴 where does this guy play Im flying over from Australia!
I liked how the caller asked for Bart's feedback on every action/street. This format/feedback is very helpful. Thank you.
Spoiler shield 🛡️
Awesome work 👏
Not all heros wear capes
Oh man, great feature for this channel. Will always upvote
This is funny, have my upvote comment and Respekt
a saint you are
I like this caller. Feels very genuine and he's not bringing any ego into the conversation.
Preflop I would definitely mix in some 4-bets with the 4th best hand in poker, LJ vs. SB. Flop is a 100% bet, turn is a very, very clear raise. River is close, QTs would make sense, maybe some AQ that decided not c-bet for some reason. But we're really just making life extremely difficult for ourselves with the line we have taken here...
Thanks Bart for always having relevant information like position, effective stacks, blinds, etc. Too many videos don't include this information and it is frustrating.
Wow Ironically Hero played so shitty, but got the max.
Sometimes I’ll slow play top set on an Uber dry board but this isn’t it. If V has AK or AQ, which seem like very likely holdings when V checks flop, he’ll call a small bet.
As played I’m 100% raising turn. If he has KQ (or 87 if he even 3-bets that) that decided to check flop so be it.
I also like slow playing top set because you block top pair so much, whereas middle set and bottom set are much better to fast play because they can get called by top pair. And this board is a rainbow board on the flop, which makes it easier to check back, too.
But a J-10 board has so many straight draws or pairs that can call a bet. I just can't see the villain check-folding a straight draw (even a gut shot), or a pair of Jacks or a pair of 10s. It's so hard to find a hand that doesn't have a pair or a straight draw. The hand the villain actually had turns out to be one of those very few hands that doesn't have a straight draw or a pair on the flop. So in this very specific situation, it worked out that he checked back the flop. But in general, I agree with you that hero should bet this flop.
I'd be a bit worried about raising the turn because I could see the villain checking K-Q with the goal of check-raising the flop. But I think you're right that it would make sense to raise the turn.
@@gabrielrockman yeah most hands that aren’t pairs are going to be overcards + gutshots often with a backdoor flush draw as well so I don’t see too many check folds from V.
Your point about KQ potentially looking to check-raise is fair so it’s not completely out of the question it’s true but even the odd time you run into the nuts you have 20% so I think I’m raising.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj What hands are you looking to get called by if you raise the turn as the hero? Flush draws would call, as they probably also have a straight draw or a pair (or both). But would a pair and a straight draw be enough to call a raise on the turn with no flush draw? Having top set really cuts down on the two pair possibilities for the villain. Would a hand like QJ or Q10 call a raise on the turn? Would a hand like AK or AQ call a raise on the turn with just two overs and a gut shot?
That's why I'm not sure if raising the turn makes sense from the hero's perspective. It's not a horrible move, because you're only worried about KQ or 8-7, and those often bet the flop. But when you're heavily blocking top pair, I'm not sure how much you can get called by.
@@gabrielrockman Any queen on the turn at this point is open ended bro
@@losyart Yes, but do people call a raise just because they're open ended? I'm not sure if a hand like AQ, QJ, Q10 etc. calls just because they're open ended. Some fish are incapable of laying down a hand when they've got an open ended straight draw on the turn, but it sounds like the villain wasn't one of those fish.
I feel like villains line is often a combo draw, pair + FD or at least nut flush draw, think checking back flop is fine but you gotta raise turn, however you get the same amount of value in this case as hero would of probably raised to about 500-600
On flop, I was thinking V might have checked planning to x/r, because hero's going to have a lot of Jx in his range that will want to bet for protection against V's unpaired over-card combos.
That’s a good point. Any overcard combo vs Jx will also have a gutshot, so I don’t think hero is checking back any Jx and maybe not even Tx. I could definitely see betting AT as hero since AK has 7 outs and you wouldn’t expect AA/KK/QQ/Jx to check to you.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj You make a good point. I wasn't even thinking about the straight draws. I was just thinking that V could have 3B pre with AA/KK/QQ/KQ/TT, and this is a flop that probably favors the original opener's range more than the 3B'ers. A c-bet is just going to fold out most of hero's 99 and worse holdings, but hero might bet with 88/99/Jx/Tx and some KQ/89 combos, some of which are going to continue to a flop x/r.
I wouldn't think hero would check back very much with JT, and would usually bet any Jx, which is why I think it's fine to take the betting lead and bet JJ here on the flop when V checks, hoping V x/r's with AA/KK/QQ/TT/KQ.
@@1vailchris yeah I’m definitely betting the flop I think. If V has nothing and folds so be it.
„A lot of cards that could come“ - „on the turn?“ 😂
OMG I need to get back to playing at Mohegan ASAP. But it will suck finding out who has died since I last played there on March 15, 2020. Many of my friends there were older than me, and I'm now on SS and Medicare, lol They shut down on March 16 halfway through the day.
I know which two days this year will be best there, Bart. Offer stands of a Mohegan tour, if I'm in town on those days. Might be traveling out west, schedule isn't known yet.
Bart...thank you for the content. I appreciate the entertainment and education. Also, I'm glad you are closer to your parents now.
People always try and get fancy or over complicate things. Remember… we bet to 1. Increase the pot in case we win (and that doesn’t mean over bloat the pot. I would have bet about 35% on the flop as I’m in position and since the 3 bettor checked this flop configuration gives me the nut advantage) and 2. To deny equity (meaning we want to put pressure on hands that have potentially good equity and cause them to fold, thereby denying that equity. Those are the two reasons you should be betting. And certain factors like position, number of opponents, and whether you or the opponent has the range or nut advantage will also help dictate your betting strategy. But checking back jacks on the flop is leaving good money on the table. Get your value when you can
I'm 4-betting pre here sometimes. Small bet size on flop, trying to induce a raise.
The really really large OOP 3bet online is usually from the BB where most 3bet a polar range. SB most are 3betting linear and go somewhere between 4x-5x. BB 3bets huge and if playing correctly your 4bets are supposed to be tiny vs the BB since they either have a premium that isn't folding or a bunch of trash that folds to any size.
who woulda guessed it, live players play like shit
x flop behind? Depending on the opponent's profile. If the guy is nit, tight, then (he probably missed the flop), checking behind would: 1) make him believe that Im not that strong (trapping), 2) help him improve (on this dry board), and on later streets I could eventually make up for my checked back flop.
If V is LAG, CS, then I'd never miss opportunity to bet here (top set, no draws!).
Him checking flop kills ALL his quuen 3bet combos
Personally im sometimes checking AQ on such boards cause i have lil bit of showdown value and doesnt want to get raised but thats only me. QJ, KQ and QQ im always betting and if i somehow 3bets some low suited queen im cbetting it as well
A reasonable result in the end after some questionable play on each street...I too like a raise on the turn, but if it's called and V continues to lead river with his bluff - probably bigger as well - or even worse decides to shove, it makes the sigh call even harder for me. If he raises the turn bet to say 600, V will call and then may check the river, so Hero can check it back or risk a value bet, but if it's checked the pot is pretty similar in size anyway. Glad Hero put the call in but would he have done so for half his stack? Pretty sure he's folding to a shove
Poker is alive and well
I thought the story was going to be a set over set that the hero got the least amount of value from.
If hero raised the turn like he’s supposed to, then he could have potentially won more.
@@supersmoo7377this somehow plays out where the hero still gets ALOT of value for flopping top set and the villain having trash
Ironically the hand Villian had was one that Bart said would get folded out to a flop bet and never turned into a bluff.
Villain's river-bet was too small. Basically had the right instinct to bluff it, but his money was "scared". 133% of Pot gets a Fold.
Idk, if he gets sticky at 80% pot, he'll justify a call at 133% because it looks bluffier. Did I just make up a new word? 😁
Against this caller, maybe 133% gets a fold. But most players are not folding after they flopped top set. Hero's only losing to Qx, which is what V is repping, but hero beats the rest of V's value range and all his bluffs, and there isn't a lot of Qx that 3B's pre from the SB and then checks this flop. The way this was played, if SB has the betting lead pre, and gets this flop, AQ/KQ/QQ is going to c-bet here with a fair frequency, and KQ is going to bet larger on the turn. I'm not sure I'd buy V's story, even for 150% pot. V could have a lot of Ax of diamonds in his range, that could get to the river this way.
i was really surprised that Bart said JJ is never a 4bet preflop given the positions.. does this mostly have to do with the stack depth? I assume if they were 100 bbs deep JJ is a 4bet at least some of the time yeah?
I could be wrong,but I'd think it's better to just call the 3bet since he's in position.. if he was outta position MAYBE a 4bet.. but I just don't think 4betting jacks pre is ever going to be the most profitable Play unless the V is an absolute maniac
@@krisdiaz2277 Maybe against this specific opponent. Villian 3 betting A8s in the SB. I can only imagine he's pretty LAG or he has a read on hero that he can fold the 3-bets. Unless, Villian's 3-bet range is really wide which then makes him a candidate for 4-bets based on fold% to them.
Either way, I want to get into this villian's game whenever I can.
Caller made max tho even chack raise turn at getting as much mobey in the middle
7:34 at this point (River) H must be in a big trouble. (that's why he called in). (I did not see hand reveal yet). This is the example of how from a best hand and great position one puts himself in a shitty spot!?
Plot twist caller played it to perfection
I don't know if the caller played it to perfection. I like the way the villain played the hand on every street, but I think the caller should have bet the flop or raised the turn.
Of course in this specific situation, the villain had one of the few hands that doesn't have a pair or a straight draw on the flop, but most of the villain's range should have either a pair or a straight draw on the flop and would call a flop bet.
The turn gave the villain the nut flush draw and an open ended straight draw, so I don't mind the villain bluffing the turn and then bluffing a scary card on the river.
Nah he could have gotten way more had he bet the flop. Villain not folding to 1 bet to Bart’s point. Then when he turns such a massive draw I could see him check raising.
If caller raised the turn he could have possibly made more. Some people love to overplay their combo draws. He might’ve seen a 3-bet on the turn by the villain, or a call and a bluff on the river.
Caller was so obsessed with villain checking the flop lol, wasn’t that big of a deal both players hit this flop a lot LJ vs SB he’s supposed to check a lot. Don’t see much of a reason to think he can’t just have KQs or AQs etc.
Being under-repped IS relevant, because it increased Villains bluffing frequency, as in, he is more skewed towards bluffs with his polar range
Yea I was thinking this exactly. It’s super relevant, we look capped af
A wise man once said when you flop a good hand you should bet it.
if the flop with AK4 rainbow, would u still advocate the caller bets, if villain chks to him?
The issue with betting with JJ after check is villain might be trapping AA, pot controlling weak ace or even strong king . U cannot push him off top set at any point and to do that against pot controlling range u have to bet multiple streets
Hero hates money, but still makes money, lo the irony.
Has zero Qx or 7x in range after he 3b! And checks flop as a reg imo.
Why can’t V have AQ?
Never mind, I missed the “and checks flop” bit.
So he has no 7x in his range, but he ends up here with A-8? I don't see why A-7 and A-8 would play preflop and flop differently. If he can have A-8 here, then he could also have A-7 here.
@@gabrielrockman Good point. In a lot of these discussions, people say V always has or never has Xx based on the action, yet we often find out V was just way out of line. I wouldn't expect V to have much 8x or 7x in his range when he 3B's pre, but I wouldn't necessarily rule it out simply because it's not GTO-approved.
1/80 result
Why wouldn't you bet the flop? You have the nuts and need to build the pot. This hand shouldn't have been a hard hand to play.
He stated why, he was afraid that since he didn’t continuation bet he might fold. Obviously a small bet would have made sense. But I can see the logic in wanting him to turn a pair and get locked into the hand and make the most $$ possible.
Interestingly hero won maximum with this approach
How does caller play these stakes and not realize a 5x 3-bet from OOP, this deep, is completely normal and standard?
the one time where i feel like bart a little mistake. why would you turn ur set into a BLUFF on the river? your hand has tons of showdown value, so whtat r u trying to bluff him off of? if he had a queen or seven hes obvs calling, and if he has anything BUT a Q or 7, u WANT him to call. youd be betting for value on the river not as a bluff.
It looks like the hero has jacks or 10s so I can see the villain checking his range
Kind of looks like AQ.
Jeez, it's hard to have played this hand any worse.
OMFG.
Lesson of this call is that there is no wrong way to play a good starting hand against someone 3 betting A8 in the SB.
Villain played the hand well imo
Villain played the hand horribly
This hurt my ears and brain. Doesn’t bet with the stone cold nuts on the flop 🐴 Doesn’t raise when AQ, AK and diamond draws 🐴. And doesn’t want to value bet the river when checked to him 🐴 where does this guy play Im flying over from Australia!
Sounds like this dude is just scared all around.
Somehow he max values this tho lol
Aint no way this guy calls himself a “rec” player and plays his hand like this brother your a “fish”
Recreationals can be fish. Not mutually exclusive