I agree with your assessment. Getting rid of the young men's presidency without specifying which duties the Bishopric can now off-load to the Elder's Quorum President and Relief Society President was the first mistake. So current Bishops keep acting like the system is the same but don't have time to help the young men. I've asked the Bishopric in my ward "So when does the Bishopric have the Young Mens Presidency meeting? Is it part of Bishopric meeting?" Crickets. They don't make it a part of their meetings. This also has left the advisors and specialists handicapped because they feel like they aren't in charge and can't make decisions without the Bishopric member being present to approve of the decisions, and they are often absent because they are required to attend other meetings. Second mistake was getting rid of the Duty to God program, which wasn't part of Scouting. At least it had some suggested spiritual requirements that they needed to do. Third mistake was telling the youth to make their own program. As you said, they don't have the breadth to know what's even out there. The Fourth mistake was to cut Quorum meetings to only twice a month. You aren't meeting often enough to have much consistent progress. They also have a combined activity for 14 and up or 2 out of 4 weeks a month, leaving you with only two weeks a month to meet as a Young men's group. Deacons get three weeks, but when you add holidays, cancel weekly activities for other reasons, you end up with only a few things a few times, and it's totally inconsistent. The Fifth mistake is constantly changing out the young men advisors, so no one is around for very long and by the time they get some momentum, they get released and you start over with a new "program" and a new "vision" from the new adults. I agree as a Deacon's Quorum Advisor and Father of three, we have a Crisis on our hands.
I am with you. I have 2 ym in the program and it's been an absolute nightmare. I have asked my bishop for more than a year to call me as a ym advisor. He keeps saying "I will think about it". When he was first call as bishop we were 10 ym strong passing sacrement and other duties and now we are down to one. He has been so difficult with the ym themselves that my boys don't want to go to church. I even told the bishop that and he said that's sad but still will do nothing to remedy the problem.
It’s tragic. Our ward completely dropped ym’s camp last summer. At first I worried something had happened in someone’s family to make such a drastic move, and while I’m relieved that wasn’t the case, I was sad they felt so overwhelmed and failed my son who looked forward to it all year. The girls, though- the girls got their camp. All the men and women planned and prepped with amazing gusto. What did they tell the boys? Just go to fsy.
@@LeenaBallerina-yj5yw so sad. My sons have had 3 day camps for the “week long” and they have devolved into just goofing around camp and fishing with a couple of hikes thrown in. I have attended them and tried to make them better but I am only one person.
My husband was called to plan camps for the boys, but with no structure and not much support, even this fizzled out. He was all in with it until he got little to no support, which I think is a result of the structure and program changes everyone is talking about.
I might be your only viewer who consistently watches your musings from outside the United States. I live in the Dominican Republic. I joined the church back in 2007 when they still used the pre-2010 Duty to God pamphlet. I was given the manual and told to fill it out. Through this, I developed habits like memorizing scriptures, reading, exercising, getting familiar with English, serving others, and teaching lessons in my quorum and other settings. Although I never earned the award because there were too many requirements, looking back, trying to fulfill that program really helped shape my adulthood and develop my inner potential. This is why I feel so frustrated with the new program, as I see the potential of our young men in the Dominican Republic being wasted. The new program is a total failure.
My oldest son did not like the scouting program but stayed in it. When he was older and out of school, he and his friends went on a hike in the woods and found themselves lost when it got dark. My son said the things he learned in scouting saved them that night. Moral of the story: kids have no idea what they need to learn or do. They only know what they want, which is usually the path of least resistance. Adult leaders are necessary!
Pres Nelson and Oaks are driving the church into the ground. The real reason they left scouting is to avoid negative publicity and lawsuits with sexual abuse. Scouting was amazing while growing up!!!!! My dad loved it and was a great scout leader
Keep this in mind , there most likely those that when the scouting program began who said that it would destroy the youth, they were not wrong. Tradition!
Thank you! I’m a60 year old grandma and my calling is activities for boys 8-11. I feel we are teaching boys how to be girls! Very frustrating I raised my boys outside and how to be men. Now we teach the boys how to play games and decorate cupcakes. I feel men should step up and fill these callings and the women should be teaching the girls to be ladies.
@@brightdaysahead382 I am the 2nd one called. So I help the main lady that was called. I offer ideas but I am not educated in guy things. I would love to see them learn how to skin a deer how to cut up meat, how to sharpen a knife and understand how a knife keeps an edge, how to start a fire without matches, how to tie knots and what knots to use for what purpose. How to box, how to shot a gun, how to clean a gun, how to saddle a horse. Guy things that men need to show these boys. I am trying but it would be nice if we had a program to follow like the old Boy Scout program.
Washington state here. Spot on Connor, everything you brought up has been my specific worries about the youth program. My wife and I have been in youth callings for years and it's just getting worse and worse. And this push for the last 10 plus years of the youth needing to lead has been so misguided, youth need to be shown how to lead. I recognize that The scouting program was not always perfect and left some of the boys behind who weren't interested, but we switched an imperfect system for essentially no system.
Totally agree about letting the kids decide and lead and plan the activities. It’s great to mentor them but I feel like the reason we need adults is to guide them in the correct direction.
One of the biggest challenges I’ve noticed is that the boys lack motivation or incentive to step out of their comfort zones. When I was a Scout, we attended a town hall meeting as part of earning the Citizenship in the Community merit badge. We all understood the meeting was likely to be pretty dull, but most of us showed up because we saw at least some value in fulfilling a requirement for that merit badge. Today, I’m not confident the boys would engage in a similar activity. They seem to view the weekly activities primarily as opportunities to have fun and hang out with friends. As a result, the activities that draw the most attendance are those focused purely on entertainment, like playing basketball, video game nights, or grabbing milkshakes. These things are fine occasionally but they don't promote a lot of growth.
Great subject! married 36 years, lived in many places with the Air Force for 28 years, been a member my whole life with lot's of exposure to how things were and are today. And you are right on. This new way is very concerning to me. Also concerning is the seminary program got rid of scripture chase and memorization, the young women became nameless, Youth leadership produces activities that are fluff. The youth are learning how to "do" class, like jumping through hoops at high school. And everyone answering with what they believed others expect them to say. Hence the title "sunday school answer". Very little to no scripture exploration is going on. Mostly quotes from leaders are used. And as an adult in those classes, I feel muzzled, ignored, a second class citizen, because all the focus was on the girls being able to lead and participate. Well that idea just got rid of adult examples. (kind of like how the Nazi youth were weaned from their parents). In class there is very little challenge to apply correction scriptures to ourselves at all. And like you said before, no connecting scriptures to the Gadianton's of today. So you have blind leading the blind. And when the real consequences hit us all in the face, they will be even less able to comprehend it or learn from it. So is this preparing us for the second coming? (Pay attention to what is done not what is said in conference) As for the attack on men and boys. From decades of multi media to the church programs, I am not happy. My son is 19. I saw the before and after. Fluff I tell you. And misinformation. More than once now I have heard a girl and a boy express the need to face hard things. They said that they wanted a "hard mission" They are hungry for real. Real relationship with Christ, real power like in the scriptures, real effect. We want to matter most of all. But to be the salt of the earth you have to do hard things. They want that. The programs are not helping that. So that's my 2 cents on the "popular opinion" directives. I have been watching my husband slowly and painfully dismantle his church culture training. Sometimes there is a rebellion stage you have to go through to get to "what is it I really want?" And only then can you truly choose Christ. If your life is full of "have to's" and you are really good at doing them and staying in the boat, and not rocking the boat, then maybe you might want to think about that.
I tried to explain all this to Greg at cwic but he blew it off repeatedly and was too busy selling trips, cruises, heart powder supplements and scripture notes to care or upset his white knight base. Thank you for explaining this Connor while not lining your pockets. It makes your message more pure and unfiltered.
Bro Greg does seem to be a bit more leaning to the port than even he used to be.... note his recent comments on Muslims worshiping in LDS meeting houses-- and US covering pictures of Jesus so as not to offend... ...now I'll go back to Connor...❤😂
That's why I am no longer following him. He always complained about the woke problems in BYUs, and church, but refused to admit that the leaders actually have prower to change all that!
100% agree. I was very worried when they rolled out the new program. We've now had almost a full cohort go through it, and the kids are not alright. It's rudderless. Our ward tries to have campouts but it's nothing like the rigor it used to be.
Scoutmaster 3 times. Got so tired of trying to involve boys in Scouting when the majority of them were not interested in Scouting. There are still scout troops out there if you want your youth in one. I celebrated when the church separated, definitely inspired. I was sick of the arm twisting activities we did annually to support the Friends of Scouting. Raise you own kids, parents teach 14:38 kids how to set and achieve goals. No one canceled camping trips
The new youth group is totally basically doing nothing for the youth! As mom of 3 teenagers, I feel like the church youth program has failed my children! It has no structure. Most of the time my boys just go play games, some time, the boys even decided playing video games are good mutual activities! Well, here we go and letting our immature boys lead, in addition, the church doesn't want provide any resources to strengthen the youth program! We are living in AZ!
I am with you. I have 2 ym in the program and it's been an absolute nightmare. I have asked my bishop for more than a year to call me as a ym advisor. He keeps saying "I will think about it". When he was first call as bishop we were 10 ym strong passing sacrement and other duties and now we are down to one. He has been so difficult with the ym themselves that my boys don't want to go to church. I even told the bishop that and he said that's sad but still will do nothing to remedy the problem.
I second this. It's literally nothing but games from 8 years old on up through priest quorum. My son gets more from baseball practice than he does from the ym program.
Right there with you. I really dislike the "program" or lack of a program. I have 3 boys, only one currently in YMs. They only play games each week, and there is no real push to help the kids develop outside of handing them a booklet. And it's just created ANOTHER thing that as a busy mom and dad we are totally responsible for.
I realized as a father that the church organization can only support what my wife and I teach our son. We dont depend on the church to raise our family. Some activities do not meet the criteria to be a priority, while most do.
God created us and set up a plan and a human social structure .. We cannot raise our children entirely from home. That is why there are meeting houses temples meaningful programs and activities We must have a functioning organized church based in scripture to have a purposeful life . Without prayer , charity , scripture study and obedience and each other, we are raising hopeless rudderless children - it won’t end well . What will Christ have to come back to ?
And you didn't have a YM leader make a difference in your life? Kids need a community of support, not just parents, to lay hold on every good thing. Our community has told our YM to go pray and figure it out for themselves. It's not working out so well.
@mkm1206 my apologies, I guess I wasn't very clear. I'm saying that as a parent, it's my job to make up the difference in what some church activities fail provide.
Australian viewer here. Our youth have FSY conference in a few weeks. Another activity called Trek has them camping for a week as they pull actual handcarts for miles and miles, dressed like the mostly British immigrants who made up the handcart pioneer companies in the early history of the Church. They learn to make camp, light fires, forage in the bush, play music, sing songs and bear testimonies. Every Tuesday night at Youth the YM are learning to tune car engines, drive cars, cook, do gardening service projects for the elderly, play basketball or volleyball for fitness, or go online to do indexing, family history research and take the names they find to the temple. As the Australian temples are being renovated, the youth catch ward's our stake bus trips to the next closest available temples, 9-11 hours away from a Friday to Saturday. They talk about goals. They write in journals. They have mission preparation weekends. Stake dances are a regular thing. My stake is six hours across by car. The four quadrants of the Youth program are all being satisfied. When I lived in Europe it was the same. So maybe when Connor raises all these indictments about the Church, they don't actually describe the worldwide church. Maybe the problem is local. It seems that way to me. In Australia, we still ask Youth to do difficult things. All the above. Plus early morning seminary. Plus ministering. Plus making bonfires and Polynesian cooking in ground pits.Maybe it's all that Nephite blood in the veins of our Islander leaders here. Thank you, Hagoth. But things get done. It happens. I don't see our leaders letting down the rising generation at all. I've rewatched this video a few times. Connor is articulate on this, as he is in all the things he wishes the Church did differently, and makes videos about. He has a good radio voice and a good face for tv. Who knew that griping about different things in the Saviour's church could keep a whole channel fed with content? Folks posting comments and murmuring about the same things offer compelling corroboration. If accurate, it looks like Church programs and leaders are failing the members compared to the good old days. But it just isn't so everywhere. In Australia, boys are still sprogs. Men can still be blokes. Women can still be sheilas. There are outliers, sure. But failings on the fringe do not describe the main body. So either America has failed big time and the majority of wards have lost the plot, OR all you murmurers learned nothing from this year's study of the Book of Mormon. Stop whining and lamenting what isn't. Start posting tips about what you're doing to move the program forward. Scatter sunshine, not cow pies. Because it's when programs require members to dig a little deeper, make a little more effort and tune in to the Spirit more, that the cream rises. And if the Lord needs to separate the curds from the whey to identify which of His sons and daughters have the grit to build up the kingdom in the next phase of the Restoration, a lot of the content and comments I see here don't look like the type of people who could be trusted to follow Brother Joseph to drain swamps and build bustling cities in times gone by. So how will you bear the kingdom forward now? Maybe it's not that the Church programs are failing, but some of its members have been too pampered for too long, gone soft, and expect too much to be done for them. So maybe do an experiment in this season of Light the World. Post a comment on this video about something you still really love about the Church, about its leaders, about its programs instead of stirring up discontent. Can you do so? WILL you do so? Because the gospel of joy is found in living it, not expecting someone else to spoonfeed it to you or your kids. Take charge. Step up. Smile more. Adjust your attitude. Show more gratitude. The ark doesn't need you to steady it. The Church is in good hands. Offer your hands to help positively. Do your part with your kids. It's centered in the home now. It's only supported by the Church. Get that balance right and the rest will follow. But for heaven's sake, don't snipe from the sidelines and virtue signal. That's as underhanded, undermining and un-Australian as it should be un-American. Be a latter-day saint, not a latter-day ain't.
I’m serving as Bishop in Arizona. We spend 15-20 minutes of every bishopric meeting focused on the young men. We go camping. We serve. We have sessions on the art of manliness and practical life skills. We go to the temple together. We do sports. I agree that the structure is less than before, but in some ways I’m glad for it. There is balance between youth-led and leader-led. I like some of the concepts presented here, and look forward to hearing more about your book.
The single biggest mistake I think, was making the bishop the young men’s president. And we love our bishop and he practically single handedly makes anything happen for the boys. But it’s sooooo hard. And I never want to bug him because I know how much he is doing and in charge of for the ward. I didn’t love the scouts but now I regret losing that because the young men have been totally shafted. I have 3 teenage sons and it has just been frustrating to watch. And a little heartbreaking. And yes, I’ve homeschooled them and I’m a stay at home mom, and we have stepped up our family camping just to get them the activity and experience they no longer get at church. Blah I can’t even talk about it without getting depressed. And yeah there’s zip going on with the goal setting thing but that’s my smallest complaint. They need regular fun and useful activities and some camping and bonding most of all. Most kids are super busy and stressed these days with school and extra curricular activities. We don’t need to add more to that except the basics. Service, scriptures, temples etc
What I don’t understand is all the people who complain about the lack of Scouting as the youth program for the Church. The Scouting program is alive and well in your communities. There are boys in the schools with your children who are part of Scouting programs. GO FIND a Scout Troop in your community and join. You will find great men and great boys who have high standards, honorable ideals, and a great program to help boys learn Citizenship, Leadership and a Love of the Outdoors (Which by the way are the 3 Aims of Scouting). The problem with Scouting in the Church was it became such a watered down merit badge factory and parents doing all the boys Service Projects - that the rally call was get the kids their Eagle Badge by 13 so they can check a box for a BYU application and we can stop doing Scouting. Which is so anti-anything that Scouts are teaching it was an embarrassment on the large scale. That being said some boys followed the program as prescribed but by and large the Church Sponsored troops were pretty much an embarrassment. If we encourage our boys to join every community and school sports program - we should encourage all young men to join a Scout Troop and Fathers to join as Adult Leaders. Both the Boys and Men will learn something from the Scout Program that wasn’t being offered by LDS Sponsored Troops. The Words of the prophets carry forward and are accurate - Scouting the most wholesome program ever created for Young Men. Join a Troop near you today!
I'm from Orem Utah, and I feel like my 2 boys have no structure. You are speaking my daily truth. I struggle with the lack of effort from the church to fill the void. Why not still do Duty to God or other similar programs? Luckily I can teach my boys the important skills we were taught in our youth because I had good leaders and a father who taught me the path to be a man of God. I do worry for the rest of the youth.
For some reason on instagram a lot of reels show up for me that are of women just bashing men. A lot of times it’s gals who grew up with a dad and I didn’t have a dad so that alone is just heartbreaking to me. But also they make it sound like women can do anything men can do. Obviously if it’s a do or die situation women could figure out how to do most things but why would we want to?! Men do the grossest, hottest, coldest, darkest, hardest jobs. Men build our cars, house, roads, buildings, machines, everything. Hopefully there are girls being raised to appreciate men, and boys being raised to be good men who work hard and also know how to do those hard things because we need them.
lindyree5468. You are right, you may be young, learn about Rosie the riveter, the women went in the factories, and did much to win WW2, it can be said that without them we could not have won, then they went back to the kitchen when the men returned. I recall many of my friends who were raised by single mothers, saying that it was because of her that they truly became good men, please remember there are many different experiences then yours
Hot take: Adults are just large children. Removing the structure from us men in home teaching was a net negative. Any and all perceived benefits (theoretical and practical) found in ministering were found in home teaching. We only hurt ourselves when we switched
Micromanagement of service in the EQ with home teaching and now with ministering interviews is the same. It was supposed to be different. And I would say the point of EQ is not just to serve. If we focused on fun and comradely more the service would follow. But we harp on service in the EQs I have been in. It’s backwards in my point of view.
Hot take: LDS leadership's goal is to restructure the religion to align with mainstream Christianity. Removing home teaching program was a huge step towards that goal.
@@gretamoney8017100%. It’s why they are slowly moving away from the more unusual doctrines (getting your own planet, for instance), replacing the Moroni symbol on Apple Maps for church buildings with the cross, and dropping some of the Mormon-sounding lingo. It’s all part of a wider rebrand effort IMO to cozy up to mainstream and evangelical Christianity.
I've been with the ym since just after this change. The advisors can act like the pseudo ym presidency, but it's not the same. The bishop should also be with the yw, but can't if quorum meetings are only twice a month. I have heard other bishops express this concern. In my current ward the bishopric created their own Men of God plan with assigned goals in each quadrant, with room for two more the boys can pick in each category. The younger boys are doing well, but not the priests. It's too little too late for them. The goals include three hikes, a mountain summit, memorize specific scriptures, teach a sport, etiquette dinner and dance, and so on. The intent is to do things that require the boys to struggle and stretch. The boys won't set goals like this for themselves - for the most part. One last point - can we place take food/treats out from every activity we ever do? Maybe when people bear testimony of the church, they actually just like all the food.
That’s awesome about the Men of God plan. Hopefully it helps the kids! I have to say, though, my husband was asked to be a deacons quorum advisor. He takes treats each time, and the boys want to come to class with the challenge he gave them (in the previous class) completed so they get the treat. I’m pretty anti-sugar and treats myself, but it has helped make class a positive thing for some of the boys that didn’t otherwise want to come. That, mixed with my husband’s personality and expecting a lot from them. ;)
One challenge I have seen is that it only takes 1 'no' to cancel out multiple good ideas. 'It's not in the budget.' 'I'm not sure that's the direction we should go.' 'Is that really the point of this program?' 'We haven't done that before.' 😢
We praised the day when the church got rid of the BSA. It was run so inappropriately. It became a competition and a requirement for parents. So many boys forced to finish their eagle by age 14 when the BSA specifically told me if done correctly no one should be finishing at that age. And, then the parents withheld things like drivers licences until their boy got his eagle. The whole church BSA program was a sham!
That’s on the parent’s ego.. BSA taught boys values, skills, structure and responsibility . Look what we have now nothing but a woke weak agenda ! Try living 130 years ago … you should do a little research to see how society lived to survive …and if we keep going down this road things could get real scary real fast . Weak men and women will destroy societies.
I stand by my incentive of getting their eagle done. Most things people do have an incentive component. It’s real life. Yes the BSA program was tricky to execute properly but it had a path. As did the Yw recognition, that forced exposure to many things that youth won’t do on their own therefore will never discover an aptitude for. You don’t know what you don’t know. 14 is a great age to wrap up the Eagle trail because HS sports and weekend activities majorly intensify after that.
I was a Scoutmaster 5 times for over 20 years. I was a Bishop. I was a Young Men's President. I was a Stake YM President. I was our Stake Scout Camp Director for 23 years (8 stakes/500 scouts). I don't say that to "toot my horn", just to say that I know the young men, scouting and the church programs. I did like the scouting program because I understood it and figured out the best way to get the boys advanced and still have a lot of fun. But scouting was only effective with good leaders and supportive parents. Even though I really liked scouting I could see the writing on the wall. The youth loved the adventure part of scouting, but didn't care for the uniforms and the "1930s elements" of scouting. When the new church YM program came out, I gave it an honest effort to implement it with the YM. We had a 5th Sunday "launch" with the boys and their parents to explain the program and get them coordinating together to develop their personal goals and activities to achieve them. It went absolutely nowhere and was a complete failure. Didn't even get off the ground. Lead balloon. The boys thought it was "lame" and had no interest in it. We scrapped it way back then and have never tried to resurrect it. Our ward program now is: camping, quarterly service projects, quarterly "career nights", 2 to 3 "one-month projects" per year: woodshop or ceramics or metal working etc, sports and monthly combined activities. 100% agree that a YM Presidency should run a program with the YM and not the Bishop with the primary responsibility. But us "older men" need to realize that the YM today are not the same as they were when we were that age or even 10 years ago. You can't just throw a "manly" program at them. You have to develop a program that can compete with and beat out the endorphins they get from the "rectangle of death" (smart phones). A super planned activity can do that, but you've got to come up with a program that will do that every week. If we really are serious about the development of our youth, YOU HAVE GOT TO MAKE THE YW & YM LEADERS THE BEST ADULTS IN THE WARD. The most energetic, fun, faithful, dynamic adults. Stop sending them to the dry-council and Bishoprics. Put the majority of the budget and the best adults in the YM/YW programs. Knowing their youth, I think the individual wards can come up with a better program than Salt Lake. If your ward YM program is lame or non-existent, sit down with the Bishop and tell him that you want a change for the YM. Present a 90-day trial program and take more control of it. He actually would probably like that. I also think it's a shame that the church is sitting on so much money and only giving peanuts to our youth programs.
I feel like this comment is just what I needed after listening to Connor Musing and asking myself, "Okay. Agreed. What now?" Thank you so much for your comment!
much of the problem with the members in fulfilling their callings with the youth is their having taken their covenants of sacrifice and of consecration for the building of the kingdom of God rather casually. because those covenants are not at the forefront of their minds they allow other things to get in the way of magnifying their callings and merely put in the barest amount of time and energy.’ that and parents who coddle their boys. when was the last time you worked with your children for two or three hours straight? physical labor? i get kids showing up at a service project unprepared to work. too many are merely socializing or distracted by scrolling through the internet on their phones.
@@wellendowed-vo2pm I agree with you. FYI, I have four kids (3 men and 1 woman). One of my top priorities while raising my kids is that I would NEVER take any personal time while they were awake. If I wanted to go to the gym, that would have to be at 5am. After work, I never did anything for myself until they went to bed. I also NEVER bought a video game console. We never had video games in my house. I didn't mind if they played at friends houses for a few hours a week, but not at our house for hours on end. I also DID NOT have cable TV. We didn't watch TV. We had a DVD player and occasionally watch videos but never TV channel scrolling. We played a lot of sports and I would get them anything from Big 5, but never video games. My kids were given their first flip phone when they turned 14 and if they showed good responsibility for a year, then we gave them a data phone, but there were strict rules like: never at the dinner table or when in a public meeting or adult friends over for dinner or home teaching, etc. Never in the car unless the trip was over an hour. Never could take their phones to bed at night. Phones were charged in our room. The had daily "house" chores like dishes, tidying, etc. Every Saturday, they woke up to a job list on their room door that would take them at least 2-3 hours to complete. No allowance. They didn't get paid for working for the family. This was really tough for all those years, BUT the results are wonderful. My kids are so well-rounded and great. They know how to work. They are not addicted to their phones. They aren't addicted to social media and they're great at sports.
Connor, you articulated much of how my husband and I feel. We have three boys, and for as long as they’ve been in the youth program-around 2020-the YM program has been weak (while the YW program seems stronger), regardless of what leaders are in there. I would love if the church would come up with a better program! Right now we’re doing our best at home to teach our sons to be leaders and to view their priesthood as a responsibility to serve. I desire to champion true masculinity and true femininity. Both are awesome and are complements to each other. When men ruled the world, we had much tyranny. Now that women are ruling more, we’re an emotional mess. We need balance and partnership and true appreciation for what makes men special and what makes women special!
Greg Madsen (Cwic Media) and Jordan Peterson recently addressed this same topic. Very apropos. And, Apostle Neil Maxwell broached the topic as well, about 40 years ago, "Those who are looking forward to the Next Life are actively engaged in improving this one". Precisely. Earth Life is as much of your existence as the prior life or the next life. Teen Age is as much of this life as is Adult Age or Empty Nest Age. The Gospel is simply an outline of Life (pre Earth, current Earth and post Earth). The Gospel, per se, should emphasis THIS life more than the next ... because we are CURRENTLY on this amazing, extraordinary, wonderful planet. Ok, that said, here is my Two Cents. I loved my age 12 to age 16 Boy Scout years. That experience helped to mitigate my total teenager ineptitude. Every teenager is inept. At age 16, my Church History / World Religions / Doctrine & Covenants professor father took me to Israel (he was the BYU Study Abroad tour guide). We flew to Israel via Zurich Switzerland. Two years later, when applying to be a missionary, I requested to be sent to Switzerland (Geneva Mission - French speaking) ... and, what-da-ya-know, that's were I was assigned ... Geneva and south eastern France. Mild climate, French Riviera, easy Romantic Language, G8 country, civilized, abundance ... and I hated it ... because I was unprepared. THE BEST missionary preparation that a teenager can do is ... get away from home, travel, experience inconvenience, experience stress, go hunting, camp out, go mountain biking, scuba dive, play hockey, be part of a team, run, read literature, eat diverse food, do what Neil Maxwell said "be actively engaged in improving this life". Then, the missionary experience will fit right in to what you are accustomed. Can I get an Amen?
It really doesn’t help that the youth are also in charge of their down activity planning. I get the desire for it, but you can’t kill the BSA structure at the same time as putting an 11 year old in charge of making plans for what to do.
As a mom of 3 boys in the youth program, and having spent 2 years as a YW leader. This program may as well not exist. It is a 100% failure. Our youth (especially the boys) are floundering. When they made the change, my oldest missed moving up to Deacons by 23 days. They released the 11 yr old scout leader and the Bishop told us to "go find an alternative in the community." Our experience has gone downhill from there. Parents are too overwhelmed (and unsupported) to reinvent the wheel. Leaders are not emotionally invested.
Great video. I’ve felt very disappointed in the current church youth program that feels so devoid of structure that leaders and youth alike are confused as to where to even start.
I would have never stayed in the church without the old youth mutual program and scouts(though i hated scouts, never even got 1st class) and i owe a lot to them. Sad that kids cant have the same experience. The new program could work, but when people are given that much freedom, instead of a regimented routine/scouting, people will definitely take the path of least resistance.
When they made this change it had so much potential, but it floundered because there was no structure, or any meaningful structure. They could have developed a world class program, but did not. The ideas of setting your own goals was good, but not realistic. After working with young men for over 40 years, I can tell you, leave it up to them to come up with ideas of activities and learning new skills, it will either be nothing but play or totally unrealistic ideas like riding 4 wheelers to the moon.
I feel we threw the baby out with the bath water. BSA had a great infrastructure. The church needs a much more robust investment to replace that infrastructure.
Yes! another thing... before they did away with home teaching/visiting teaching they got rid of something where women were raised to be women. We got together and taught them to do laundry, sew, cook, bake, make the home a lovely clean place... yeah... homemaking. Now it's not anything... women are no longer sitting in circles to discuss things they were having problems with and what worked for me and maybe that will help you and hands on... just a BIG FAIL in my observation for women (sorry, we were first). Think about how the women, mom's don't know the basics that schools got rid of, church now got rid of and they're just seeing online how to raise a family and make a home. And trying to go back to quarterly or monthly RS nights is just a struggle for everyone involved. I am not happy about the youth programs... I'm just glad my kids are raised but my grandkids, ugh.
I grew up with the YW program when we had to earn our medallions and I loved it because it held us accountable, and we built the relationship with our leaders and project coordinators. What they are doing now I am not sure. As a parent I struggle with the Children Program. I was hoping YM and YW would be better but it doesn't sound like there is much difference.
All of this episode pertains to the Young Women as well. I have the same concerns about the girls learning to become mothers, wives, and being ok with femininity. I agree with everything you have said. The structure needs to be brought back, the leaders need to be the teachers with the youth being mentored as a teacher. I have been in several YW presidencies over the last 30 years, and currently I feel we are losing the youth. The "program" isn't working. Because it isn't a program. In fact. we are encouraged to not ask the girls about their goals, or what they have set. The YM need presidencies back in place to help with the order and "program". I have 5 children that have gone through the more structured programs and now this "program" and only one child is still active, and it's because she is under 18 and her parents require she go to church. For this program to function it needs the parents to be involved and in the know of what the youth are doing. It's all so disconnected and unstructured. As a counselor in a YW presidency, I am frustrated and lost as to how to encourage the girls to set goals and see goals as progress in becoming like our Savior, Jesus Christ.
Totally agree. My son was unintentionally disinvited to a paddleboarding campout because of the disorganization of the YM as a whole. Only the dads in "the cool" click knew about it, and everyone outside the know was left behind. When my husband confronted the bishop about the matter he took no responsibility and the quorum leadership didn't take responsibility either. When something goes all you have are fingers pointing at each other.
I have recently learned that the churches in the United States that are thriving are appealing to men. I see that the Church is neglecting men and especially young men. If the Church is going to thrive, we need to address the neglect of men.
I view the three things we need are Religious ritual Civic building and duty Social engagement It's so boring now and individualized, we find it hard to cohesively and collectively achieve those things.
I agree with you completely. As an educator with a degree in Psychology and Human Growth and Development, I was shocked and dismayed at the changes to the programs. Boys and men need structure. They are pack animals if you will. Children in cities join gangs in an attempt to belong. That's just how it is. Our boys were raised with the strong Young men's program. I joined the church when my son was 5. It was wonderful. Boys in single parent homes got to learn skills that frankly women can't teach effectively. As grandparents we ended up needing to raise 2 of our grandsons. Again, the YM program gave them structure and opportunities. When Scouting was discontinued, they were devastated. Some of the older brethren, like my husband stepped up and planned Scout like activities for the boys. The middle aged dads weren't helpful at all. When the YW were put in charge the program fell apart completely. You don't know what you don't know. How do kids set goals when they have no idea what's available? Half the boys stopped attending church. When the shutdowns occurred and then church resumed only 1/3 came back. My grandsons refused to go. They are now 18 and 20. Neither attend church. At home, they stopped participating in scripture study. We don't live in Utah. There weren't any other LDS boys in their school. As I said, males are pack animals. They were involved in sports and were influenced by non LDS. Our ward is half the size it was. As the boys disappeared, so did the girls.😢 The leaders of a worldwide church destroyed the roots of the tree.
I’ve been teaching my 17 year old son more about manhood and the gospel by having our own discussions about and experiences with God and then reading Jordan Peterson. The YM program has totally failed him. But I haven’t. We need to bring back a version of scouting. Merit badges, less rank advancement. Outdoor activities without the regiment of scouting. All infused with gospel centered purpose and learning. Some enterprising person could probably create it for the Utah population but many people wouldn’t support it because it’s not “church sanctioned.”
8:35 Structure most generally benefits those who want it but don't have the resources or skills to establish it. A child that has a stable family and a decent level of initiative and ambition is usually going to do alright in most situations. It's the kids who have broken homes and haven't been guided in developing goal making skills and learning to take initiative that really lose opportunity when a structure that could help them is taken away.
10:57 I grew up in northern Utah, and I can think of many of my friends who didn't seem to care much for church, but were more open to/ enthusiastic about the scouting& young men's social stuff. When I look at this letter again I just see that these kids who probably needed the gospel more than those of us who enjoyed church would have been turned off by the "churchifying" of the youth programs. We get opportunities for spiritual growth on Sunday at church each week. It seems that trying to turn what should be more fun and social into yet another "boring" church-like spiritual program that they will lose a lot of interest by those who benefit from the different (not gospel-focused) types of opportunities scouting used to bring. There's a time to every purpose under heaven. (I'm also thinking now how non-member parents where I lived would often be glad to have their kids to be part of the neighborhood scout troop, but would be less inclined to send their kids to a church controlled and spiritually focused gathering of neighbor kids.)
Will thy come up with something better? From the same people who came up with the bland "Come, follow me" program? The Buns-Up Boy's Hour. Might as well name it for what it is now.
The ministering and youth programs in my area are completely defunct. As a youth leader I am overwhelmed as I try to plan and schedule activities that connect with meaningful goals. It is a constant struggle competing with more interesting and prioritized activities that the kids have access to.
My 9 year old doesn't even have a program. I started taking him to Trail Life, a Christian organization that is similar to boy scouts. Unfortunately, it requires you to be a trinitarian to be a leader in the organization. But my son is loving it.
I have a tough time drawing the conclusion that the church made a mistake. If this program was implemented correctly and taken seriously by the leaders, it does have potential. It's new and different and has it's drawbacks. I have an 8 year old son. It would be beyond easy to say, well, by the time he's in young men's we will have a different prophet and a new youth program is sure to follow after dumpster fire that we are currently trying to make work. Is it really about that though, or do I need to check how critical I'm being? As a millennial born in 89, I have talked to dozens of peers that wonder why we were encouraged so strongly to achieve our eagle scout award. We were promised all the benefits and never got anything out of it except bragging rights. I look at my years in mutual and think about those we did service projects for. I can see the benefit looking back, I just don't see that it's necessary to add more to the full plates of our youth. Even in this video, which was very thorough, I think it was a struggle to pin point in what way the youth actually need more direction. Certainly they are doing fine spiritually. Certainly if they are interested in sports they will do that on their own. Certainly they are in school already. Spirituality should be developed at home and church. Talent development will be at their own pace. What are we afraid of them missing out on again?
I am the mom of two Eagle Scouts who came up through the Scout program in the church. It was good for both of them. Now some wards have good programs and some not so much. It's a crap shoot now. My husband was called to be an "activity day leader" for boys who used to be in cub scouts. There were no guidelines or training at all and my husband honestly had no ideas what to do with the boys except have them play a game. The new program is actually a whole lot of nothing.
I like your musings. This came to mind, "Unwillingness of Saints to Learn", " I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God: but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions; they cannot stand the fire at all" (Jan 20 1844) D.H.C. 6:183-185. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith pg 331. Joseph knew the minds of the LDS people, by the comments I have read they have not changed or grown but are flying to pieces. Change is good, yes there will be trial and error and growing pains and more change, it's something called "life", without change the main mode of transportation in SLC would be the handcart! Now everyone sing with me Traditiiiion! Tranditiiiion!! Traditiiion!!! Traditiiiion!!!! Tradition!!!!! Even when they no long work they are still right because of Traditiiiion!!!!!!......... Thank you all. Your beard truly, so manly, in the Tradition of Brigham.
Not unlike students teaching students at BYU-I. What a horrible idea that makes zero sense. It is illogical to think that students should teach students in a university setting.
As a parent of grown children and up and coming children, I have had the priviledge and responsibility if raising children with and without scouts and rhe young womens achievement program. My older kids felt more included and as if YM/YW were a bkessing in giving them experiences home life could not. My younger ones go to socialize, but they aren't being supported in ways that make it feel valuable. I seriously dislike the new program and letting the youth lead is the stupidest thing I could fathom. Now, I could imagine that a 11-13 year old could learn about the planning process, a 13-15 year old could begin to be on charge of assignments that make the plan happen and by the time they are done being able to do it all. They tested the new program on kids trained through the old program and saw success. Main thing we see is the old program was very successful. The new program is lip service to wishful thinking.
I live in Northern Utah. I’ve seen local leadership and families give their son’s competitive sport team a priority over the young men activities. A couple years ago one of the young men described in front of the congregation their Airbnb for young men’s camp as a “mancation.” I think you are a spot on your assessment. I really don’t expect much from our young men’s program. Luckily we have an awesome scoutmaster, and I have my boys enrolled in the troop, which has been a blessing.
I think the idea of the new program is decent but the practicality of it is not. I served in Activity Days for over a year and was constantly frustrated with the lack of direction. I prayed about what to do and the answer I felt I received is that the parents need to be much more involved. The parents could come to the activity for ~30 minutes and discuss goals and help their kids once a month and then that would give them some direction as well as the leaders to know what to do for the other meetings that month. The Church could easily implement a program like BSA if it wanted to. I think it would be much better than the current youth program. a
6 boys one girl. The oldest boys became eagles. Daughter thrashed out her young women's personal progress in 1 year because she didn't want anyone telling her what to do. 3&4th sons were on deck to do their eagle projects when the church ended affiliation with BSA. The youngest two were ready to start 1st class requirements and youngest got 1 month of cubs. From nostalgia point of view I miss it for the two youngest. From a wow notice the differences. My oldest two are much more willing to wait for someone else to lead. Second two have very strong ideas on what they want to make happen. 4th son started his own business, began investing in the stock market. Left for mission with 40K in stocks. Jury still out on youngest two but the direction is good. They ran the business while brother was serving. It has changed my focus as a parent to, how do I help him recognize and act on spiritual promptings. Getting them to the temple younger and them being able to baptize and act as witnesses at the temple, super important for these boys. They can serve. I love it. MADISON, Alabama.
I agree with your assessment and thoughts. I think the biggest failure has been the lack of training to implement the new program. From the day it was announced until now, I feel like none of my leaders in the Nashville TN area have grasped the intent of the changes. Much of this I believe is because it has not been conveyed effectively from the top down because nobody really knows what they’re doing. It has been the blind leading the blind. I see comments that we should bring back young men’s presidencies and I think that would be a great first step to try to salvage some of what we currently are doing.
I agree that the new youth programs are of a different nature than the one we grew up with. On the surface it appears like it’s failing, however, it’s very commonplace for the risen generation to look at the rising generation and see what appear as disparities and failings. I believe the rising generation will welcome the Savior and are being prepared for such an event. I don’t have the ability to explain that in the comments section, but I believe looking back, we will see the wisdom of our current events, as perplexing as they appear now. Connor, I thoroughly enjoy your videos and the intellect you display in your analyses. Keep it up.
Great discussion. Structure coupled with accountability (also viewed as incentives) enables growth and pursuit of excellence… much like the commandments do. Absence leads to the devaluation of a truly unique culture and movement … and people leave. Would love to hear a discussion applying the same thought and evaluation of Elder’s quorum … the always forgotten organization.
There is no such thing as toxic masculinity, just masculinity, and anything else that men do or don't do is toxic. Jesus was our perfect example. "What manner of men ought ye to be, even as I am."
I feel that this may be a call from the church for parents and leaders to put in extra work and create structure themselves, one that caters specifically to the quorum. I would also like to say, you dont have to have a calling to host campouts with your sons and their church friends for example. I agree the young men have been suffering because of all of these changes.. so let's make our own boyscouts in our own wards!
I have 3 children in the youth program and its basically non-existent in iur ward. They have activities every week, but theres no goal setting, structure, etc. Campouts are super rare, apart from the yearly girls camp and AP camp
Yeah, drop youth in charge. The activity changes with introvert and extravert children in presidencies. Our ward even puts kids in charge of their fifth Sunday.
💯 the plan needs more structure. The “youth lead” ideal means leaders have to do so much more to help these kids come up with ideas and make the activities happen. It would be awesome if the church came out with their own “merit badge book” plan or something.
I thought for sure that the church would replace the BSA program with their own similar program. I was hoping for a program that still taught preparedness and survival training. But what it was replaced with has obviously failed. I understand that desire for us to live into the aspiration of a more holy order, but my oldest is 12 and all he's done since he joined YM is play games every week, and had 1 meeting about the 4 quadrants and goals. He's not learning anything of substance about God or himself. It's been incredibly frustrating.
Reminds me of something my husband said about his job. He is in the military and works at an office that is rather splintered in terms of their roles. It is a largely individualistic environment compared to what he has done in the past. Even though he enjoys some parts of his work, he is often down about the lack of cohesion and comradery. Working together as a group on projects and goals bonds those that are in it, whether it is for a job, church, club, family, etc.
I’m lucky enough to be serving in the priests quorum and we just had our goal setting course for an activity last month with a planned follow up in January. Each YM has identified someone they are sharing their goals and plans with to have follow up and accountability. The bishop said he asks the ym and yw specifically about their personal goals when he does interviews with them. I assumed that most wards would be doing something similar.
Connor, Agree with your musing... You may want to also mention in this vein, the FSY, Trek, and YM basketball have been providing some of these missing components, albeit maybe they aren't frequent enough to change the trajectory.
@@user-yg8jt7qi6w FSY is one long Sunday School lesson according to youth I have spoken to. EFY … my children all went to that in the 90s. Now it’s only for families with a great deal of money to spend. FSY was a cheap replacement.
We raised kids under the old and new programs. For all its flaws, the old, more prescriptive and structured programs were far superior. It feels like the new program was made by a committee of feminists with PhDs.
I love camping and being outside (from Idaho) so I take my kids camping a lot and my son is oldest and so it just happens that responsibilities fall on him to help me set up the tent, cook, get water. But I agree that they aren’t doing the survival sheets/books with how to set an injury or tie helpful knots, or start a fire with limited resources etc. As it just so happens I also crochet and my son also knows a few knots like slip knot but I’d guess he’s a minority in those small skills. I also homeschool and I’m very involved in his learning, but again I’m a minority at least in my ward.
There’s a problem with YW too and what I foresee. I do respect your focus on men as well as that’s a huge concern of mine. I can’t wait for your book. We need to talk about masculinity and femininity!
@cboyack you hit the nail squarely on the head. I was called as a Bishop in Jan 2018 having been the YM President right before that and then called back as an advisor after being released as a Bishop. You have just said all the same things that I've been saying to anyone who would listen for the past 7 years. The new program is a disaster. The lack of YM presidency is a disaster. There is no accountability or sense of stewardship with most of the advisors. The bishopric, for as hard as they might try, ALWAYS has its attention divided so they can't give full attention to the boys. I have seen a sharp rise in what you call "beta males" in the ranks of the young men. I could go on and on but you are exactly correct in all your assessments.
Spot on musing. I can't say the YM program is worth anything now. There is basically just "game night" of basketball, dodge ball, board games, repeat. And putting this all on the Bishopric to be responsible for is too demanding--and yes, I've heard from our son (Priest), that they are responsible for the activities planned. And your comment about there not being any organization for these kids that don't have any experience in organizing is right, too.
Young men benefit greatly from physical activity and from being introduced to activities and skills that they would not be exposed to if left to their own devices and preferences. Scouting did that, in the current program, physical activity is one of the quadrants, but it is entirely possible for a youth to fully engage with the program, and yet never be required to do anything that doesn't inherently interest them.
I see a lot of comments on here that parents saw the lack of structure and so they started doing camping and activities with their kids. That’s EXACTLY the point. The goal setting is ALSO supposed to family aligned/oriented. We also see members complain that the local units take too much time during the summers that should be family time. I’ve raised 5 boys during the scouting period and the non scouting period. I took it upon myself to give my boys the structure that was needed. I didn’t rely on the church to raise my children. That said, there does need to be more structure and support from the church. Not full scouts like because that was a laborious and expensive checklist manifesto that became gospel law, but more would be encouraged.
@ I think we’ll continue to see a streamlining of callings and such. We better get really good at easing our own families and building our own conversion cycles as opposed to having the church do everything. Less rules. Less programs. Less fluffy callings. Down to the essentials of our covenants.
I think people need to pay attention to what the prophet says more. Our current prophet said we are going to become more of a home based church. Come Follow Me and ministering was implemented to give the members more freedom to apply gospel principles in their lives in ways that better work for them. In other words the church isn’t going to micromanage your life with a bunch of detailed programs. The church will provide a weekly sacrament service, a temple to get temple ordinances performed, missions to serve in and scriptures to read. In other words the church is going to provide the basic tools but it’s up to us to use them in ways that work for our situation.
The prophet’s counsel was perfect. And perfect timing. The issue is with us members. It’s most definitely time for us to step up & own the work- we’re at the hinge point. But many members have become complacent & take what we have for granted- or are in the church for different reasons? You are totally on point- apathy is a huge issue. We need more heart, mind & strength! With spiritual momentum, we can make it happen. (This is easy for me to say- as I don’t technically have youth in any programs at the moment) I was just reading before watching this about how the Lord’s work will continue on- He just may give it to another people if we take it too lightly. Is that what it will take? Not to be separate from us- but do we maybe need some new blood in the church? New bottles for the new wine. It pains my heart to see how lightly we treat the amazing gift we’ve been given. I myself can do better as well.
I was a Scout Master shortly before the separation of church and scouts. In our ward the leaders over the Young Men talked a lot about the church developing their own Young Men program that will be better than scouting. The scouting program was great for involving many young men and getting them out to activities with our scouting troop. Incidentally the new Young Men's program was DOA much like the Ministering program. I remind priesthood holders that the Ministering program was to be more than what the Home Teaching program was. But the low bar seems to be texting your Ministering families once a quarter. What is there currently that allows young men to lead flag ceremonies, to remind them weekly of values to live by, and instill the motto of Do a Good Turn Daily?
My bishop called me to be the Young Men's secretary, to help him separate his time from his bishopric duties and YM duties. I am also his Priest Quorum Advisor. It is really hard to use this program to the boys' benefit because the "rules" as a leader changes all the time. We can't know their goals. Wait! We now can know their goals. We can't plan the activities. The boys plan the activities. It seems like all we ever do is "plan". It's been a big headache. Most of the time, we ditch the book and do something entirely different.
When I analyze this aloud to others, I get the “don’t criticize leadership”. The rub is it’s turned on me and my children’s lack of spirituality to establish their goals. My other observation is everyone changing levels in January. As a primary presidency member we are trying to arrange the supportive hand off of an primary kid entering deacons. The deacons quorum presidency is dissolved in Jan because he’s aging up to Teachers so there no one in charge of fellowshipping the new kid. I also take issue with taking the names/ identity away from the YW. Can’t we have a common communicating method to describe certain groups across stakes or can we allow the girls to at least construct a name like a scout patrol did to create an identity? And tell me when the bishopric has time to meet with the primary children or YW? The times conflict with their quorum duties. I see so many parts of this as logistically setting us up for failure.
Think you hit it right on the head. I was called as Bishop a few months before they got rid YM presidency and the kick off of children and youth. There is lot that can happen with the right vision but most won’t put any effort or focus on it. I was a YM president under the BSA days being Bishop and YM president was so much harder and challenging with the BSA activities for the boys to learn and grow. Feels like a lot of lost and wandering trying to keep youth engaged on Wed nights. A scout master and YM presidency did so much. A lot of Bishoprics are over loaded and just trying to keep their heads and the youths heads above water.
My son was a teacher during the transition. He was part of the last cohort to earn Eagle Scout rank. The new program failed him completely. You don't have to tell anyone what you're goals are, so you don't actually need to have any. He struggled even with our support to learn to set goals, and he found the new program super boring. He left inactivity during his 2nd year as a priest.
I am raising 4 boys. Men need structure and brotherhood, not to set goals in private and have no oversight. They also need men to be their mentors, not another thing that their mommies nag them about. New program is not very effective.
In my experience, people can not afford to even take work off for camp outs anymore. Those who are in homes with good interest rates can give more time but the new generation is rent and house poor. But at the same time I see that that after 2010 more people put their kids in so many sports and extracurricular activities and so now those who can afford it are not going to activities because their families can afford it and are kept busy with this. And the poor kids are in small numbers with ward activities it seemed a lot more people couldn’t afford this before 2010 so more people came to activities for fun. My husband got assigned to do a teen and young adult group for pornography from the stake and the program is actually really good. Talks about man power and has specific goals, they really seem to make progress. It’s very structured and teaches them empowered self talk. He says he think this program could fit for all the young men and be awesome.
I noticed after this change in our area the boys summer camping just stopped. And when my husband and I were in the youth together when we talked about pulling a bit from the scouting program, it was like no we are not doing scouts any mor. You can't copy right age old skills.
I'm a Bishop and I agree with you. Also, it seems that the upper leadership is still calling older men as Bishops, who can't relate with the young men or keep up with them physically. So, there isn't much of a connection between leadership and youth. It seemed before, that the young men's president was usually a younger adult who the boys could admire and look up to. But with the older Bishops they just kind of look at them as old men, and not a role model. I also think therenis a way to do scouting things but not have it be scouting. Duty to God was a good program too. There needs to be a balance between this new program and the old.
I miss when our church was something cool, to brag about… back when I felt our leaders cared about their men and young men. Now I feel like they’re annoyed by their members and their boys and embarrassed by them.
Our stake and my ward do a fantastic job with the youth. The youth are full participants (with the leaders there to put appropriate guardrails in place when necessary). I've been surprised by the number of youth stepping up to the challenge to lead. I've seen stake leaders take advisement from the youth for ideas that were off the beaten path, but that turned out to be successful. The new program definitely can work well.
Hi Connor -- you're echoing a lot of thoughts I've had since the new program was introduced. Beyond the issues you've raised, other big thing is that the young men's program has been effectively defunded -- especially for smaller wards like mine (on the East Coast). There's just hardly any room for planning significant young men's outings such as camping trips, when the entire ward budget is $3,000 / year. And on top of that leaders are told in the manual not to fund activities and not to ask parents to fund activities (except for the annual young men's camp). I think to some degree that the church itself has become infected by the woke mind virus and that's why they've made the program the exact same between young men and young women, so of course the new program isn't going to be optimized towards helping young men become men.
I saw that the church was failing my son and I started taking him to Trail Life. He loves it. You have to be a trinitarian to be a leader. As I'm a deist I can't lead. But I make sure to take him every time. He is even interested in reading the bible now. Where before he had no interest in the bible.
Trail life and American heritage girls are great programs. People won't support them in Utah and probably never will because the church didn't say it's ok.
I agree with your assessment. Getting rid of the young men's presidency without specifying which duties the Bishopric can now off-load to the Elder's Quorum President and Relief Society President was the first mistake. So current Bishops keep acting like the system is the same but don't have time to help the young men. I've asked the Bishopric in my ward "So when does the Bishopric have the Young Mens Presidency meeting? Is it part of Bishopric meeting?" Crickets. They don't make it a part of their meetings. This also has left the advisors and specialists handicapped because they feel like they aren't in charge and can't make decisions without the Bishopric member being present to approve of the decisions, and they are often absent because they are required to attend other meetings.
Second mistake was getting rid of the Duty to God program, which wasn't part of Scouting. At least it had some suggested spiritual requirements that they needed to do.
Third mistake was telling the youth to make their own program. As you said, they don't have the breadth to know what's even out there.
The Fourth mistake was to cut Quorum meetings to only twice a month. You aren't meeting often enough to have much consistent progress. They also have a combined activity for 14 and up or 2 out of 4 weeks a month, leaving you with only two weeks a month to meet as a Young men's group. Deacons get three weeks, but when you add holidays, cancel weekly activities for other reasons, you end up with only a few things a few times, and it's totally inconsistent.
The Fifth mistake is constantly changing out the young men advisors, so no one is around for very long and by the time they get some momentum, they get released and you start over with a new "program" and a new "vision" from the new adults. I agree as a Deacon's Quorum Advisor and Father of three, we have a Crisis on our hands.
You resumed the way I have been feeling
I am with you. I have 2 ym in the program and it's been an absolute nightmare. I have asked my bishop for more than a year to call me as a ym advisor. He keeps saying "I will think about it". When he was first call as bishop we were 10 ym strong passing sacrement and other duties and now we are down to one. He has been so difficult with the ym themselves that my boys don't want to go to church. I even told the bishop that and he said that's sad but still will do nothing to remedy the problem.
It’s tragic. Our ward completely dropped ym’s camp last summer. At first I worried something had happened in someone’s family to make such a drastic move, and while I’m relieved that wasn’t the case, I was sad they felt so overwhelmed and failed my son who looked forward to it all year. The girls, though- the girls got their camp. All the men and women planned and prepped with amazing gusto. What did they tell the boys? Just go to fsy.
@@LeenaBallerina-yj5yw so sad. My sons have had 3 day camps for the “week long” and they have devolved into just goofing around camp and fishing with a couple of hikes thrown in. I have attended them and tried to make them better but I am only one person.
My husband was called to plan camps for the boys, but with no structure and not much support, even this fizzled out. He was all in with it until he got little to no support, which I think is a result of the structure and program changes everyone is talking about.
I might be your only viewer who consistently watches your musings from outside the United States. I live in the Dominican Republic. I joined the church back in 2007 when they still used the pre-2010 Duty to God pamphlet. I was given the manual and told to fill it out. Through this, I developed habits like memorizing scriptures, reading, exercising, getting familiar with English, serving others, and teaching lessons in my quorum and other settings. Although I never earned the award because there were too many requirements, looking back, trying to fulfill that program really helped shape my adulthood and develop my inner potential. This is why I feel so frustrated with the new program, as I see the potential of our young men in the Dominican Republic being wasted. The new program is a total failure.
You are not :)
I am consistent too! 😁
@wwsandbe where are you from?
My oldest son did not like the scouting program but stayed in it. When he was older and out of school, he and his friends went on a hike in the woods and found themselves lost when it got dark. My son said the things he learned in scouting saved them that night. Moral of the story: kids have no idea what they need to learn or do. They only know what they want, which is usually the path of least resistance. Adult leaders are necessary!
Pres Nelson and Oaks are driving the church into the ground. The real reason they left scouting is to avoid negative publicity and lawsuits with sexual abuse. Scouting was amazing while growing up!!!!! My dad loved it and was a great scout leader
Keep this in mind , there most likely those that when the scouting program began who said that it would destroy the youth, they were not wrong. Tradition!
Thank you! I’m a60 year old grandma and my calling is activities for boys 8-11. I feel we are teaching boys how to be girls! Very frustrating I raised my boys outside and how to be men. Now we teach the boys how to play games and decorate cupcakes.
I feel men should step up and fill these callings and the women should be teaching the girls to be ladies.
@@tracyyoung9364 exactly!
If you’re the leader, why are you doing those kinds of activities?
@@brightdaysahead382 I am the 2nd one called. So I help the main lady that was called. I offer ideas but I am not educated in guy things. I would love to see them learn how to skin a deer how to cut up meat, how to sharpen a knife and understand how a knife keeps an edge, how to start a fire without matches, how to tie knots and what knots to use for what purpose. How to box, how to shot a gun, how to clean a gun, how to saddle a horse. Guy things that men need to show these boys. I am trying but it would be nice if we had a program to follow like the old Boy Scout program.
Washington state here. Spot on Connor, everything you brought up has been my specific worries about the youth program. My wife and I have been in youth callings for years and it's just getting worse and worse. And this push for the last 10 plus years of the youth needing to lead has been so misguided, youth need to be shown how to lead. I recognize that The scouting program was not always perfect and left some of the boys behind who weren't interested, but we switched an imperfect system for essentially no system.
Totally agree about letting the kids decide and lead and plan the activities. It’s great to mentor them but I feel like the reason we need adults is to guide them in the correct direction.
One of the biggest challenges I’ve noticed is that the boys lack motivation or incentive to step out of their comfort zones. When I was a Scout, we attended a town hall meeting as part of earning the Citizenship in the Community merit badge. We all understood the meeting was likely to be pretty dull, but most of us showed up because we saw at least some value in fulfilling a requirement for that merit badge.
Today, I’m not confident the boys would engage in a similar activity. They seem to view the weekly activities primarily as opportunities to have fun and hang out with friends. As a result, the activities that draw the most attendance are those focused purely on entertainment, like playing basketball, video game nights, or grabbing milkshakes. These things are fine occasionally but they don't promote a lot of growth.
Great subject! married 36 years, lived in many places with the Air Force for 28 years, been a member my whole life with lot's of exposure to how things were and are today. And you are right on. This new way is very concerning to me. Also concerning is the seminary program got rid of scripture chase and memorization, the young women became nameless, Youth leadership produces activities that are fluff. The youth are learning how to "do" class, like jumping through hoops at high school. And everyone answering with what they believed others expect them to say. Hence the title "sunday school answer". Very little to no scripture exploration is going on. Mostly quotes from leaders are used. And as an adult in those classes, I feel muzzled, ignored, a second class citizen, because all the focus was on the girls being able to lead and participate. Well that idea just got rid of adult examples. (kind of like how the Nazi youth were weaned from their parents).
In class there is very little challenge to apply correction scriptures to ourselves at all. And like you said before, no connecting scriptures to the Gadianton's of today. So you have blind leading the blind. And when the real consequences hit us all in the face, they will be even less able to comprehend it or learn from it. So is this preparing us for the second coming? (Pay attention to what is done not what is said in conference)
As for the attack on men and boys. From decades of multi media to the church programs, I am not happy. My son is 19. I saw the before and after. Fluff I tell you. And misinformation. More than once now I have heard a girl and a boy express the need to face hard things. They said that they wanted a "hard mission" They are hungry for real. Real relationship with Christ, real power like in the scriptures, real effect. We want to matter most of all. But to be the salt of the earth you have to do hard things. They want that. The programs are not helping that. So that's my 2 cents on the "popular opinion" directives.
I have been watching my husband slowly and painfully dismantle his church culture training. Sometimes there is a rebellion stage you have to go through to get to "what is it I really want?" And only then can you truly choose Christ. If your life is full of "have to's" and you are really good at doing them and staying in the boat, and not rocking the boat, then maybe you might want to think about that.
I tried to explain all this to Greg at cwic but he blew it off repeatedly and was too busy selling trips, cruises, heart powder supplements and scripture notes to care or upset his white knight base. Thank you for explaining this Connor while not lining your pockets. It makes your message more pure and unfiltered.
Bro Greg does seem to be a bit more leaning to the port than even he used to be.... note his recent comments on Muslims worshiping in LDS meeting houses-- and US covering pictures of Jesus so as not to offend...
...now I'll go back to Connor...❤😂
@@csmusix he is sliding off the tracks, very gradually. ALso, he seems tobe putting on weight.
That's why I am no longer following him. He always complained about the woke problems in BYUs, and church, but refused to admit that the leaders actually have prower to change all that!
No Greg is not treading the line of priestcraft, he’s a RUclipsr and not earning a paycheck as a church leader.
What's CWIC?
100% agree. I was very worried when they rolled out the new program. We've now had almost a full cohort go through it, and the kids are not alright. It's rudderless. Our ward tries to have campouts but it's nothing like the rigor it used to be.
Rudderless. Perfect analogy.
Scoutmaster 3 times. Got so tired of trying to involve boys in Scouting when the majority of them were not interested in Scouting. There are still scout troops out there if you want your youth in one. I celebrated when the church separated, definitely inspired. I was sick of the arm twisting activities we did annually to support the Friends of Scouting.
Raise you own kids, parents teach 14:38 kids how to set and achieve goals. No one canceled camping trips
The new youth group is totally basically doing nothing for the youth! As mom of 3 teenagers, I feel like the church youth program has failed my children! It has no structure. Most of the time my boys just go play games, some time, the boys even decided playing video games are good mutual activities! Well, here we go and letting our immature boys lead, in addition, the church doesn't want provide any resources to strengthen the youth program! We are living in AZ!
I am with you. I have 2 ym in the program and it's been an absolute nightmare. I have asked my bishop for more than a year to call me as a ym advisor. He keeps saying "I will think about it". When he was first call as bishop we were 10 ym strong passing sacrement and other duties and now we are down to one. He has been so difficult with the ym themselves that my boys don't want to go to church. I even told the bishop that and he said that's sad but still will do nothing to remedy the problem.
I second this. It's literally nothing but games from 8 years old on up through priest quorum. My son gets more from baseball practice than he does from the ym program.
Right there with you. I really dislike the "program" or lack of a program. I have 3 boys, only one currently in YMs. They only play games each week, and there is no real push to help the kids develop outside of handing them a booklet. And it's just created ANOTHER thing that as a busy mom and dad we are totally responsible for.
I realized as a father that the church organization can only support what my wife and I teach our son. We dont depend on the church to raise our family. Some activities do not meet the criteria to be a priority, while most do.
God created us and set up a plan and a human social structure .. We cannot raise our children entirely from home. That is why there are meeting houses temples meaningful programs and activities
We must have a functioning organized church based in scripture to have a purposeful life .
Without prayer , charity , scripture study and obedience and each other, we are raising hopeless rudderless children - it won’t end well . What will Christ have to come back to ?
And you didn't have a YM leader make a difference in your life? Kids need a community of support, not just parents, to lay hold on every good thing. Our community has told our YM to go pray and figure it out for themselves. It's not working out so well.
@mkm1206 my apologies, I guess I wasn't very clear. I'm saying that as a parent, it's my job to make up the difference in what some church activities fail provide.
Australian viewer here. Our youth have FSY conference in a few weeks. Another activity called Trek has them camping for a week as they pull actual handcarts for miles and miles, dressed like the mostly British immigrants who made up the handcart pioneer companies in the early history of the Church. They learn to make camp, light fires, forage in the bush, play music, sing songs and bear testimonies. Every Tuesday night at Youth the YM are learning to tune car engines, drive cars, cook, do gardening service projects for the elderly, play basketball or volleyball for fitness, or go online to do indexing, family history research and take the names they find to the temple. As the Australian temples are being renovated, the youth catch ward's our stake bus trips to the next closest available temples, 9-11 hours away from a Friday to Saturday. They talk about goals. They write in journals. They have mission preparation weekends. Stake dances are a regular thing. My stake is six hours across by car. The four quadrants of the Youth program are all being satisfied. When I lived in Europe it was the same.
So maybe when Connor raises all these indictments about the Church, they don't actually describe the worldwide church. Maybe the problem is local. It seems that way to me. In Australia, we still ask Youth to do difficult things. All the above. Plus early morning seminary. Plus ministering. Plus making bonfires and Polynesian cooking in ground pits.Maybe it's all that Nephite blood in the veins of our Islander leaders here. Thank you, Hagoth. But things get done. It happens. I don't see our leaders letting down the rising generation at all.
I've rewatched this video a few times. Connor is articulate on this, as he is in all the things he wishes the Church did differently, and makes videos about. He has a good radio voice and a good face for tv. Who knew that griping about different things in the Saviour's church could keep a whole channel fed with content? Folks posting comments and murmuring about the same things offer compelling corroboration. If accurate, it looks like Church programs and leaders are failing the members compared to the good old days.
But it just isn't so everywhere. In Australia, boys are still sprogs. Men can still be blokes. Women can still be sheilas. There are outliers, sure. But failings on the fringe do not describe the main body. So either America has failed big time and the majority of wards have lost the plot, OR all you murmurers learned nothing from this year's study of the Book of Mormon.
Stop whining and lamenting what isn't. Start posting tips about what you're doing to move the program forward. Scatter sunshine, not cow pies. Because it's when programs require members to dig a little deeper, make a little more effort and tune in to the Spirit more, that the cream rises. And if the Lord needs to separate the curds from the whey to identify which of His sons and daughters have the grit to build up the kingdom in the next phase of the Restoration, a lot of the content and comments I see here don't look like the type of people who could be trusted to follow Brother Joseph to drain swamps and build bustling cities in times gone by. So how will you bear the kingdom forward now?
Maybe it's not that the Church programs are failing, but some of its members have been too pampered for too long, gone soft, and expect too much to be done for them.
So maybe do an experiment in this season of Light the World. Post a comment on this video about something you still really love about the Church, about its leaders, about its programs instead of stirring up discontent. Can you do so? WILL you do so? Because the gospel of joy is found in living it, not expecting someone else to spoonfeed it to you or your kids.
Take charge. Step up. Smile more. Adjust your attitude. Show more gratitude. The ark doesn't need you to steady it. The Church is in good hands. Offer your hands to help positively. Do your part with your kids. It's centered in the home now. It's only supported by the Church. Get that balance right and the rest will follow.
But for heaven's sake, don't snipe from the sidelines and virtue signal. That's as underhanded, undermining and un-Australian as it should be un-American. Be a latter-day saint, not a latter-day ain't.
Amen!
I love this response. We all need to step up or Rise up like we should.
I’m serving as Bishop in Arizona. We spend 15-20 minutes of every bishopric meeting focused on the young men. We go camping. We serve. We have sessions on the art of manliness and practical life skills. We go to the temple together. We do sports. I agree that the structure is less than before, but in some ways I’m glad for it. There is balance between youth-led and leader-led. I like some of the concepts presented here, and look forward to hearing more about your book.
The single biggest mistake I think, was making the bishop the young men’s president. And we love our bishop and he practically single handedly makes anything happen for the boys. But it’s sooooo hard. And I never want to bug him because I know how much he is doing and in charge of for the ward. I didn’t love the scouts but now I regret losing that because the young men have been totally shafted. I have 3 teenage sons and it has just been frustrating to watch. And a little heartbreaking. And yes, I’ve homeschooled them and I’m a stay at home mom, and we have stepped up our family camping just to get them the activity and experience they no longer get at church. Blah I can’t even talk about it without getting depressed. And yeah there’s zip going on with the goal setting thing but that’s my smallest complaint. They need regular fun and useful activities and some camping and bonding most of all. Most kids are super busy and stressed these days with school and extra curricular activities. We don’t need to add more to that except the basics. Service, scriptures, temples etc
What I don’t understand is all the people who complain about the lack of Scouting as the youth program for the Church. The Scouting program is alive and well in your communities. There are boys in the schools with your children who are part of Scouting programs. GO FIND a Scout Troop in your community and join. You will find great men and great boys who have high standards, honorable ideals, and a great program to help boys learn Citizenship, Leadership and a Love of the Outdoors (Which by the way are the 3 Aims of Scouting). The problem with Scouting in the Church was it became such a watered down merit badge factory and parents doing all the boys Service Projects - that the rally call was get the kids their Eagle Badge by 13 so they can check a box for a BYU application and we can stop doing Scouting. Which is so anti-anything that Scouts are teaching it was an embarrassment on the large scale. That being said some boys followed the program as prescribed but by and large the Church Sponsored troops were pretty much an embarrassment. If we encourage our boys to join every community and school sports program - we should encourage all young men to join a Scout Troop and Fathers to join as Adult Leaders. Both the Boys and Men will learn something from the Scout Program that wasn’t being offered by LDS Sponsored Troops. The Words of the prophets carry forward and are accurate - Scouting the most wholesome program ever created for Young Men. Join a Troop near you today!
I'm from Orem Utah, and I feel like my 2 boys have no structure. You are speaking my daily truth. I struggle with the lack of effort from the church to fill the void. Why not still do Duty to God or other similar programs? Luckily I can teach my boys the important skills we were taught in our youth because I had good leaders and a father who taught me the path to be a man of God. I do worry for the rest of the youth.
For some reason on instagram a lot of reels show up for me that are of women just bashing men. A lot of times it’s gals who grew up with a dad and I didn’t have a dad so that alone is just heartbreaking to me. But also they make it sound like women can do anything men can do. Obviously if it’s a do or die situation women could figure out how to do most things but why would we want to?! Men do the grossest, hottest, coldest, darkest, hardest jobs. Men build our cars, house, roads, buildings, machines, everything. Hopefully there are girls being raised to appreciate men, and boys being raised to be good men who work hard and also know how to do those hard things because we need them.
lindyree5468. You are right, you may be young, learn about Rosie the riveter, the women went in the factories, and did much to win WW2, it can be said that without them we could not have won, then they went back to the kitchen when the men returned. I recall many of my friends who were raised by single mothers, saying that it was because of her that they truly became good men, please remember there are many different experiences then yours
Hot take: Adults are just large children.
Removing the structure from us men in home teaching was a net negative. Any and all perceived benefits (theoretical and practical) found in ministering were found in home teaching.
We only hurt ourselves when we switched
Agreed
Micromanagement of service in the EQ with home teaching and now with ministering interviews is the same. It was supposed to be different. And I would say the point of EQ is not just to serve. If we focused on fun and comradely more the service would follow. But we harp on service in the EQs I have been in. It’s backwards in my point of view.
Hot take: LDS leadership's goal is to restructure the religion to align with mainstream Christianity. Removing home teaching program was a huge step towards that goal.
Funny how "divinely inspired" changes in the Church occur only after survey results are tallied. 😅
@@gretamoney8017100%. It’s why they are slowly moving away from the more unusual doctrines (getting your own planet, for instance), replacing the Moroni symbol on Apple Maps for church buildings with the cross, and dropping some of the Mormon-sounding lingo. It’s all part of a wider rebrand effort IMO to cozy up to mainstream and evangelical Christianity.
I've been with the ym since just after this change. The advisors can act like the pseudo ym presidency, but it's not the same. The bishop should also be with the yw, but can't if quorum meetings are only twice a month. I have heard other bishops express this concern.
In my current ward the bishopric created their own Men of God plan with assigned goals in each quadrant, with room for two more the boys can pick in each category. The younger boys are doing well, but not the priests. It's too little too late for them. The goals include three hikes, a mountain summit, memorize specific scriptures, teach a sport, etiquette dinner and dance, and so on. The intent is to do things that require the boys to struggle and stretch. The boys won't set goals like this for themselves - for the most part.
One last point - can we place take food/treats out from every activity we ever do? Maybe when people bear testimony of the church, they actually just like all the food.
That’s awesome about the Men of God plan. Hopefully it helps the kids! I have to say, though, my husband was asked to be a deacons quorum advisor. He takes treats each time, and the boys want to come to class with the challenge he gave them (in the previous class) completed so they get the treat. I’m pretty anti-sugar and treats myself, but it has helped make class a positive thing for some of the boys that didn’t otherwise want to come. That, mixed with my husband’s personality and expecting a lot from them. ;)
Bring back YM presidents!
And Priesthood opening exercises where the young and old men interacted.
Yep. This is the single biggest problem
Yup, it takes a small army of men to lead boys and the program is only as good as its leaders.
Bring Jesus Christ.... as Lord of lords...
KING OF KINGS
THANK YOU!!!!
One challenge I have seen is that it only takes 1 'no' to cancel out multiple good ideas. 'It's not in the budget.' 'I'm not sure that's the direction we should go.' 'Is that really the point of this program?' 'We haven't done that before.' 😢
Perhaps a better response to something the boys want to be do is ask, “what do we need to do to make this happen?”
We praised the day when the church got rid of the BSA. It was run so inappropriately. It became a competition and a requirement for parents. So many boys forced to finish their eagle by age 14 when the BSA specifically told me if done correctly no one should be finishing at that age. And, then the parents withheld things like drivers licences until their boy got his eagle. The whole church BSA program was a sham!
The Boy Scouts was one of the best things that happened to me. We did so much. Had so many adventures. I loved it.
That’s on the parent’s ego.. BSA taught boys values, skills, structure and responsibility .
Look what we have now nothing but a woke weak agenda ! Try living 130 years ago … you should do a little research to see how society lived to survive …and if we keep going down this road things could get real scary real fast .
Weak men and women will destroy societies.
@@yeboscrebo4451 💯💯💯
I worked in cubs for 13-14 years. Monthly training attended by cub scout leaders, but not by scout leaders, generally.
I stand by my incentive of getting their eagle done. Most things people do have an incentive component. It’s real life. Yes the BSA program was tricky to execute properly but it had a path. As did the Yw recognition, that forced exposure to many things that youth won’t do on their own therefore will never discover an aptitude for. You don’t know what you don’t know. 14 is a great age to wrap up the Eagle trail because HS sports and weekend activities majorly intensify after that.
The poorest executed BSA program was a million times more effective than what we have now.
I was a Scoutmaster 5 times for over 20 years. I was a Bishop. I was a Young Men's President. I was a Stake YM President. I was our Stake Scout Camp Director for 23 years (8 stakes/500 scouts). I don't say that to "toot my horn", just to say that I know the young men, scouting and the church programs. I did like the scouting program because I understood it and figured out the best way to get the boys advanced and still have a lot of fun. But scouting was only effective with good leaders and supportive parents. Even though I really liked scouting I could see the writing on the wall. The youth loved the adventure part of scouting, but didn't care for the uniforms and the "1930s elements" of scouting. When the new church YM program came out, I gave it an honest effort to implement it with the YM. We had a 5th Sunday "launch" with the boys and their parents to explain the program and get them coordinating together to develop their personal goals and activities to achieve them. It went absolutely nowhere and was a complete failure. Didn't even get off the ground. Lead balloon. The boys thought it was "lame" and had no interest in it. We scrapped it way back then and have never tried to resurrect it. Our ward program now is: camping, quarterly service projects, quarterly "career nights", 2 to 3 "one-month projects" per year: woodshop or ceramics or metal working etc, sports and monthly combined activities. 100% agree that a YM Presidency should run a program with the YM and not the Bishop with the primary responsibility. But us "older men" need to realize that the YM today are not the same as they were when we were that age or even 10 years ago. You can't just throw a "manly" program at them. You have to develop a program that can compete with and beat out the endorphins they get from the "rectangle of death" (smart phones). A super planned activity can do that, but you've got to come up with a program that will do that every week. If we really are serious about the development of our youth, YOU HAVE GOT TO MAKE THE YW & YM LEADERS THE BEST ADULTS IN THE WARD. The most energetic, fun, faithful, dynamic adults. Stop sending them to the dry-council and Bishoprics. Put the majority of the budget and the best adults in the YM/YW programs. Knowing their youth, I think the individual wards can come up with a better program than Salt Lake. If your ward YM program is lame or non-existent, sit down with the Bishop and tell him that you want a change for the YM. Present a 90-day trial program and take more control of it. He actually would probably like that. I also think it's a shame that the church is sitting on so much money and only giving peanuts to our youth programs.
Amen and amen
I feel like this comment is just what I needed after listening to Connor Musing and asking myself, "Okay. Agreed. What now?" Thank you so much for your comment!
much of the problem with the members in fulfilling their callings with the youth is their having taken their covenants of sacrifice and of consecration for the building of the kingdom of God rather casually. because those covenants are not at the forefront of their minds they allow other things to get in the way of magnifying their callings and merely put in the barest amount of time and energy.’
that and parents who coddle their boys. when was the last time you worked with your children for two or three hours straight? physical labor? i get kids showing up at a service project unprepared to work. too many are merely socializing or distracted by scrolling through the internet on their phones.
@@wellendowed-vo2pm I agree with you. FYI, I have four kids (3 men and 1 woman). One of my top priorities while raising my kids is that I would NEVER take any personal time while they were awake. If I wanted to go to the gym, that would have to be at 5am. After work, I never did anything for myself until they went to bed. I also NEVER bought a video game console. We never had video games in my house. I didn't mind if they played at friends houses for a few hours a week, but not at our house for hours on end. I also DID NOT have cable TV. We didn't watch TV. We had a DVD player and occasionally watch videos but never TV channel scrolling. We played a lot of sports and I would get them anything from Big 5, but never video games. My kids were given their first flip phone when they turned 14 and if they showed good responsibility for a year, then we gave them a data phone, but there were strict rules like: never at the dinner table or when in a public meeting or adult friends over for dinner or home teaching, etc. Never in the car unless the trip was over an hour. Never could take their phones to bed at night. Phones were charged in our room. The had daily "house" chores like dishes, tidying, etc. Every Saturday, they woke up to a job list on their room door that would take them at least 2-3 hours to complete. No allowance. They didn't get paid for working for the family. This was really tough for all those years, BUT the results are wonderful. My kids are so well-rounded and great. They know how to work. They are not addicted to their phones. They aren't addicted to social media and they're great at sports.
Connor, you articulated much of how my husband and I feel. We have three boys, and for as long as they’ve been in the youth program-around 2020-the YM program has been weak (while the YW program seems stronger), regardless of what leaders are in there. I would love if the church would come up with a better program! Right now we’re doing our best at home to teach our sons to be leaders and to view their priesthood as a responsibility to serve. I desire to champion true masculinity and true femininity. Both are awesome and are complements to each other. When men ruled the world, we had much tyranny. Now that women are ruling more, we’re an emotional mess. We need balance and partnership and true appreciation for what makes men special and what makes women special!
Greg Madsen (Cwic Media) and Jordan Peterson recently addressed this same topic. Very apropos. And, Apostle Neil Maxwell broached the topic as well, about 40 years ago, "Those who are looking forward to the Next Life are actively engaged in improving this one". Precisely. Earth Life is as much of your existence as the prior life or the next life. Teen Age is as much of this life as is Adult Age or Empty Nest Age.
The Gospel is simply an outline of Life (pre Earth, current Earth and post Earth). The Gospel, per se, should emphasis THIS life more than the next ... because we are CURRENTLY on this amazing, extraordinary, wonderful planet.
Ok, that said, here is my Two Cents.
I loved my age 12 to age 16 Boy Scout years. That experience helped to mitigate my total teenager ineptitude. Every teenager is inept. At age 16, my Church History / World Religions / Doctrine & Covenants professor father took me to Israel (he was the BYU Study Abroad tour guide). We flew to Israel via Zurich Switzerland.
Two years later, when applying to be a missionary, I requested to be sent to Switzerland (Geneva Mission - French speaking) ... and, what-da-ya-know, that's were I was assigned ... Geneva and south eastern France. Mild climate, French Riviera, easy Romantic Language, G8 country, civilized, abundance ... and I hated it ... because I was unprepared.
THE BEST missionary preparation that a teenager can do is ... get away from home, travel, experience inconvenience, experience stress, go hunting, camp out, go mountain biking, scuba dive, play hockey, be part of a team, run, read literature, eat diverse food, do what Neil Maxwell said "be actively engaged in improving this life". Then, the missionary experience will fit right in to what you are accustomed.
Can I get an Amen?
It really doesn’t help that the youth are also in charge of their down activity planning.
I get the desire for it, but you can’t kill the BSA structure at the same time as putting an 11 year old in charge of making plans for what to do.
As a mom of 3 boys in the youth program, and having spent 2 years as a YW leader. This program may as well not exist. It is a 100% failure. Our youth (especially the boys) are floundering.
When they made the change, my oldest missed moving up to Deacons by 23 days. They released the 11 yr old scout leader and the Bishop told us to "go find an alternative in the community." Our experience has gone downhill from there.
Parents are too overwhelmed (and unsupported) to reinvent the wheel. Leaders are not emotionally invested.
Great video. I’ve felt very disappointed in the current church youth program that feels so devoid of structure that leaders and youth alike are confused as to where to even start.
I would have never stayed in the church without the old youth mutual program and scouts(though i hated scouts, never even got 1st class) and i owe a lot to them. Sad that kids cant have the same experience. The new program could work, but when people are given that much freedom, instead of a regimented routine/scouting, people will definitely take the path of least resistance.
When they made this change it had so much potential, but it floundered because there was no structure, or any meaningful structure. They could have developed a world class program, but did not. The ideas of setting your own goals was good, but not realistic. After working with young men for over 40 years, I can tell you, leave it up to them to come up with ideas of activities and learning new skills, it will either be nothing but play or totally unrealistic ideas like riding 4 wheelers to the moon.
I feel we threw the baby out with the bath water. BSA had a great infrastructure. The church needs a much more robust investment to replace that infrastructure.
Yes! another thing... before they did away with home teaching/visiting teaching they got rid of something where women were raised to be women. We got together and taught them to do laundry, sew, cook, bake, make the home a lovely clean place... yeah... homemaking. Now it's not anything... women are no longer sitting in circles to discuss things they were having problems with and what worked for me and maybe that will help you and hands on... just a BIG FAIL in my observation for women (sorry, we were first). Think about how the women, mom's don't know the basics that schools got rid of, church now got rid of and they're just seeing online how to raise a family and make a home. And trying to go back to quarterly or monthly RS nights is just a struggle for everyone involved. I am not happy about the youth programs... I'm just glad my kids are raised but my grandkids, ugh.
I grew up with the YW program when we had to earn our medallions and I loved it because it held us accountable, and we built the relationship with our leaders and project coordinators. What they are doing now I am not sure. As a parent I struggle with the Children Program. I was hoping YM and YW would be better but it doesn't sound like there is much difference.
All of this episode pertains to the Young Women as well. I have the same concerns about the girls learning to become mothers, wives, and being ok with femininity. I agree with everything you have said. The structure needs to be brought back, the leaders need to be the teachers with the youth being mentored as a teacher. I have been in several YW presidencies over the last 30 years, and currently I feel we are losing the youth. The "program" isn't working. Because it isn't a program. In fact. we are encouraged to not ask the girls about their goals, or what they have set. The YM need presidencies back in place to help with the order and "program". I have 5 children that have gone through the more structured programs and now this "program" and only one child is still active, and it's because she is under 18 and her parents require she go to church. For this program to function it needs the parents to be involved and in the know of what the youth are doing. It's all so disconnected and unstructured. As a counselor in a YW presidency, I am frustrated and lost as to how to encourage the girls to set goals and see goals as progress in becoming like our Savior, Jesus Christ.
Totally agree. My son was unintentionally disinvited to a paddleboarding campout because of the disorganization of the YM as a whole. Only the dads in "the cool" click knew about it, and everyone outside the know was left behind. When my husband confronted the bishop about the matter he took no responsibility and the quorum leadership didn't take responsibility either. When something goes all you have are fingers pointing at each other.
I have recently learned that the churches in the United States that are thriving are appealing to men. I see that the Church is neglecting men and especially young men. If the Church is going to thrive, we need to address the neglect of men.
Part of that stems from men being constantly told where they're falling short and to step it up.
I view the three things we need are
Religious ritual
Civic building and duty
Social engagement
It's so boring now and individualized, we find it hard to cohesively and collectively achieve those things.
I agree with you completely. As an educator with a degree in Psychology and Human Growth and Development, I was shocked and dismayed at the changes to the programs. Boys and men need structure. They are pack animals if you will. Children in cities join gangs in an attempt to belong. That's just how it is. Our boys were raised with the strong Young men's program. I joined the church when my son was 5. It was wonderful. Boys in single parent homes got to learn skills that frankly women can't teach effectively. As grandparents we ended up needing to raise 2 of our grandsons. Again, the YM program gave them structure and opportunities. When Scouting was discontinued, they were devastated. Some of the older brethren, like my husband stepped up and planned Scout like activities for the boys. The middle aged dads weren't helpful at all. When the YW were put in charge the program fell apart completely. You don't know what you don't know. How do kids set goals when they have no idea what's available? Half the boys stopped attending church. When the shutdowns occurred and then church resumed only 1/3 came back. My grandsons refused to go. They are now 18 and 20. Neither attend church. At home, they stopped participating in scripture study. We don't live in Utah. There weren't any other LDS boys in their school. As I said, males are pack animals. They were involved in sports and were influenced by non LDS. Our ward is half the size it was. As the boys disappeared, so did the girls.😢 The leaders of a worldwide church destroyed the roots of the tree.
I’ve been teaching my 17 year old son more about manhood and the gospel by having our own discussions about and experiences with God and then reading Jordan Peterson. The YM program has totally failed him. But I haven’t.
We need to bring back a version of scouting. Merit badges, less rank advancement. Outdoor activities without the regiment of scouting. All infused with gospel centered purpose and learning.
Some enterprising person could probably create it for the Utah population but many people wouldn’t support it because it’s not “church sanctioned.”
8:35 Structure most generally benefits those who want it but don't have the resources or skills to establish it.
A child that has a stable family and a decent level of initiative and ambition is usually going to do alright in most situations.
It's the kids who have broken homes and haven't been guided in developing goal making skills and learning to take initiative that really lose opportunity when a structure that could help them is taken away.
10:57 I grew up in northern Utah, and I can think of many of my friends who didn't seem to care much for church, but were more open to/ enthusiastic about the scouting& young men's social stuff.
When I look at this letter again I just see that these kids who probably needed the gospel more than those of us who enjoyed church would have been turned off by the "churchifying" of the youth programs.
We get opportunities for spiritual growth on Sunday at church each week. It seems that trying to turn what should be more fun and social into yet another "boring" church-like spiritual program that they will lose a lot of interest by those who benefit from the different (not gospel-focused) types of opportunities scouting used to bring.
There's a time to every purpose under heaven.
(I'm also thinking now how non-member parents where I lived would often be glad to have their kids to be part of the neighborhood scout troop, but would be less inclined to send their kids to a church controlled and spiritually focused gathering of neighbor kids.)
Will thy come up with something better? From the same people who came up with the bland "Come, follow me" program?
The Buns-Up Boy's Hour. Might as well name it for what it is now.
I whole heartedly agree with your concerns. My boys are primary and nursery still, but my calling is in the YM, advisor. It just feels aimless
The ministering and youth programs in my area are completely defunct. As a youth leader I am overwhelmed as I try to plan and schedule activities that connect with meaningful goals. It is a constant struggle competing with more interesting and prioritized activities that the kids have access to.
My 9 year old doesn't even have a program. I started taking him to Trail Life, a Christian organization that is similar to boy scouts. Unfortunately, it requires you to be a trinitarian to be a leader in the organization. But my son is loving it.
I have a tough time drawing the conclusion that the church made a mistake. If this program was implemented correctly and taken seriously by the leaders, it does have potential. It's new and different and has it's drawbacks.
I have an 8 year old son. It would be beyond easy to say, well, by the time he's in young men's we will have a different prophet and a new youth program is sure to follow after dumpster fire that we are currently trying to make work. Is it really about that though, or do I need to check how critical I'm being?
As a millennial born in 89, I have talked to dozens of peers that wonder why we were encouraged so strongly to achieve our eagle scout award. We were promised all the benefits and never got anything out of it except bragging rights. I look at my years in mutual and think about those we did service projects for. I can see the benefit looking back, I just don't see that it's necessary to add more to the full plates of our youth. Even in this video, which was very thorough, I think it was a struggle to pin point in what way the youth actually need more direction.
Certainly they are doing fine spiritually. Certainly if they are interested in sports they will do that on their own. Certainly they are in school already. Spirituality should be developed at home and church. Talent development will be at their own pace. What are we afraid of them missing out on again?
I am the mom of two Eagle Scouts who came up
through the Scout program in the church. It was good for both of them. Now some wards have good programs and some not so much. It's a crap shoot now. My husband was called to be an "activity day leader" for boys who
used to be in cub scouts. There were no guidelines or training at all and my husband honestly had no ideas what to do with the boys except have them play a game. The new program is actually a whole lot of nothing.
I am sure you also claim to follow the prophet... All while refusing to get out from under the Law of Moses... "Hear Him!"
"A whole lot of nothing" my feelings too
My husband has the same calling. He does cub scout stuff, and teaches them skills.
I like your musings. This came to mind, "Unwillingness of Saints to Learn", " I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God: but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions; they cannot stand the fire at all" (Jan 20 1844) D.H.C. 6:183-185. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith pg 331. Joseph knew the minds of the LDS people, by the comments I have read they have not changed or grown but are flying to pieces. Change is good, yes there will be trial and error and growing pains and more change, it's something called "life", without change the main mode of transportation in SLC would be the handcart! Now everyone sing with me Traditiiiion! Tranditiiiion!! Traditiiion!!! Traditiiiion!!!! Tradition!!!!! Even when they no long work they are still right because of Traditiiiion!!!!!!......... Thank you all. Your beard truly, so manly, in the Tradition of Brigham.
Not unlike students teaching students at BYU-I. What a horrible idea that makes zero sense. It is illogical to think that students should teach students in a university setting.
As a parent of grown children and up and coming children, I have had the priviledge and responsibility if raising children with and without scouts and rhe young womens achievement program.
My older kids felt more included and as if YM/YW were a bkessing in giving them experiences home life could not. My younger ones go to socialize, but they aren't being supported in ways that make it feel valuable. I seriously dislike the new program and letting the youth lead is the stupidest thing I could fathom. Now, I could imagine that a 11-13 year old could learn about the planning process, a 13-15 year old could begin to be on charge of assignments that make the plan happen and by the time they are done being able to do it all.
They tested the new program on kids trained through the old program and saw success. Main thing we see is the old program was very successful. The new program is lip service to wishful thinking.
I live in Northern Utah. I’ve seen local leadership and families give their son’s competitive sport team a priority over the young men activities. A couple years ago one of the young men described in front of the congregation their Airbnb for young men’s camp as a “mancation.” I think you are a spot on your assessment. I really don’t expect much from our young men’s program. Luckily we have an awesome scoutmaster, and I have my boys enrolled in the troop, which has been a blessing.
It was Elder Ballard Connor :) That is the response the Church would give, not address the problems.
I think the idea of the new program is decent but the practicality of it is not. I served in Activity Days for over a year and was constantly frustrated with the lack of direction. I prayed about what to do and the answer I felt I received is that the parents need to be much more involved. The parents could come to the activity for ~30 minutes and discuss goals and help their kids once a month and then that would give them some direction as well as the leaders to know what to do for the other meetings that month.
The Church could easily implement a program like BSA if it wanted to. I think it would be much better than the current youth program. a
6 boys one girl. The oldest boys became eagles. Daughter thrashed out her young women's personal progress in 1 year because she didn't want anyone telling her what to do. 3&4th sons were on deck to do their eagle projects when the church ended affiliation with BSA. The youngest two were ready to start 1st class requirements and youngest got 1 month of cubs. From nostalgia point of view I miss it for the two youngest. From a wow notice the differences. My oldest two are much more willing to wait for someone else to lead. Second two have very strong ideas on what they want to make happen. 4th son started his own business, began investing in the stock market. Left for mission with 40K in stocks. Jury still out on youngest two but the direction is good. They ran the business while brother was serving. It has changed my focus as a parent to, how do I help him recognize and act on spiritual promptings. Getting them to the temple younger and them being able to baptize and act as witnesses at the temple, super important for these boys. They can serve. I love it. MADISON, Alabama.
I agree with your assessment and thoughts. I think the biggest failure has been the lack of training to implement the new program. From the day it was announced until now, I feel like none of my leaders in the Nashville TN area have grasped the intent of the changes. Much of this I believe is because it has not been conveyed effectively from the top down because nobody really knows what they’re doing. It has been the blind leading the blind. I see comments that we should bring back young men’s presidencies and I think that would be a great first step to try to salvage some of what we currently are doing.
I agree that the new youth programs are of a different nature than the one we grew up with. On the surface it appears like it’s failing, however, it’s very commonplace for the risen generation to look at the rising generation and see what appear as disparities and failings. I believe the rising generation will welcome the Savior and are being prepared for such an event. I don’t have the ability to explain that in the comments section, but I believe looking back, we will see the wisdom of our current events, as perplexing as they appear now. Connor, I thoroughly enjoy your videos and the intellect you display in your analyses. Keep it up.
Great discussion. Structure coupled with accountability (also viewed as incentives) enables growth and pursuit of excellence… much like the commandments do. Absence leads to the devaluation of a truly unique culture and movement … and people leave.
Would love to hear a discussion applying the same thought and evaluation of Elder’s quorum … the always forgotten organization.
There is no such thing as toxic masculinity, just masculinity, and anything else that men do or don't do is toxic. Jesus was our perfect example. "What manner of men ought ye to be, even as I am."
I havent watched the musing yet, I am going to do it now. But I have strong feelings about the New program. To Say is a failure is an understatement.
I feel that this may be a call from the church for parents and leaders to put in extra work and create structure themselves, one that caters specifically to the quorum. I would also like to say, you dont have to have a calling to host campouts with your sons and their church friends for example. I agree the young men have been suffering because of all of these changes.. so let's make our own boyscouts in our own wards!
I have 3 children in the youth program and its basically non-existent in iur ward. They have activities every week, but theres no goal setting, structure, etc. Campouts are super rare, apart from the yearly girls camp and AP camp
There’s value in “return and report “ in the subject of ministering.
I totally agree I have 3 Grandsons and am worried for their future. We wanted to grow up and be amazing men.
Yeah, drop youth in charge. The activity changes with introvert and extravert children in presidencies. Our ward even puts kids in charge of their fifth Sunday.
💯 the plan needs more structure. The “youth lead” ideal means leaders have to do so much more to help these kids come up with ideas and make the activities happen. It would be awesome if the church came out with their own “merit badge book” plan or something.
I thought for sure that the church would replace the BSA program with their own similar program. I was hoping for a program that still taught preparedness and survival training. But what it was replaced with has obviously failed. I understand that desire for us to live into the aspiration of a more holy order, but my oldest is 12 and all he's done since he joined YM is play games every week, and had 1 meeting about the 4 quadrants and goals. He's not learning anything of substance about God or himself. It's been incredibly frustrating.
@ sounds identical to my ward…
Great video. I agree about how we need structure, etc.
why is this program is strugling? Because its not a program.
Great discussion!!
Reminds me of something my husband said about his job. He is in the military and works at an office that is rather splintered in terms of their roles. It is a largely individualistic environment compared to what he has done in the past. Even though he enjoys some parts of his work, he is often down about the lack of cohesion and comradery. Working together as a group on projects and goals bonds those that are in it, whether it is for a job, church, club, family, etc.
I’m lucky enough to be serving in the priests quorum and we just had our goal setting course for an activity last month with a planned follow up in January. Each YM has identified someone they are sharing their goals and plans with to have follow up and accountability. The bishop said he asks the ym and yw specifically about their personal goals when he does interviews with them. I assumed that most wards would be doing something similar.
Once again, we are on the same wavelength. This is excellent.
Connor,
Agree with your musing... You may want to also mention in this vein, the FSY, Trek, and YM basketball have been providing some of these missing components, albeit maybe they aren't frequent enough to change the trajectory.
@@user-yg8jt7qi6w FSY is one long Sunday School lesson according to youth I have spoken to. EFY … my children all went to that in the 90s. Now it’s only for families with a great deal of money to spend. FSY was a cheap replacement.
We raised kids under the old and new programs. For all its flaws, the old, more prescriptive and structured programs were far superior. It feels like the new program was made by a committee of feminists with PhDs.
I love camping and being outside (from Idaho) so I take my kids camping a lot and my son is oldest and so it just happens that responsibilities fall on him to help me set up the tent, cook, get water. But I agree that they aren’t doing the survival sheets/books with how to set an injury or tie helpful knots, or start a fire with limited resources etc. As it just so happens I also crochet and my son also knows a few knots like slip knot but I’d guess he’s a minority in those small skills. I also homeschool and I’m very involved in his learning, but again I’m a minority at least in my ward.
There’s a problem with YW too and what I foresee. I do respect your focus on men as well as that’s a huge concern of mine.
I can’t wait for your book. We need to talk about masculinity and femininity!
@cboyack you hit the nail squarely on the head. I was called as a Bishop in Jan 2018 having been the YM President right before that and then called back as an advisor after being released as a Bishop. You have just said all the same things that I've been saying to anyone who would listen for the past 7 years. The new program is a disaster. The lack of YM presidency is a disaster. There is no accountability or sense of stewardship with most of the advisors. The bishopric, for as hard as they might try, ALWAYS has its attention divided so they can't give full attention to the boys. I have seen a sharp rise in what you call "beta males" in the ranks of the young men. I could go on and on but you are exactly correct in all your assessments.
As a former young women leader, the youth program is not working. It needs structure. It is almost forgotten because of the lack of structure.
Spot on musing. I can't say the YM program is worth anything now. There is basically just "game night" of basketball, dodge ball, board games, repeat. And putting this all on the Bishopric to be responsible for is too demanding--and yes, I've heard from our son (Priest), that they are responsible for the activities planned. And your comment about there not being any organization for these kids that don't have any experience in organizing is right, too.
Young men benefit greatly from physical activity and from being introduced to activities and skills that they would not be exposed to if left to their own devices and preferences. Scouting did that, in the current program, physical activity is one of the quadrants, but it is entirely possible for a youth to fully engage with the program, and yet never be required to do anything that doesn't inherently interest them.
I see a lot of comments on here that parents saw the lack of structure and so they started doing camping and activities with their kids. That’s EXACTLY the point. The goal setting is ALSO supposed to family aligned/oriented. We also see members complain that the local units take too much time during the summers that should be family time. I’ve raised 5 boys during the scouting period and the non scouting period. I took it upon myself to give my boys the structure that was needed. I didn’t rely on the church to raise my children. That said, there does need to be more structure and support from the church. Not full scouts like because that was a laborious and expensive checklist manifesto that became gospel law, but more would be encouraged.
@ I think we’ll continue to see a streamlining of callings and such. We better get really good at easing our own families and building our own conversion cycles as opposed to having the church do everything. Less rules. Less programs. Less fluffy callings. Down to the essentials of our covenants.
I think people need to pay attention to what the prophet says more. Our current prophet said we are going to become more of a home based church. Come Follow Me and ministering was implemented to give the members more freedom to apply gospel principles in their lives in ways that better work for them. In other words the church isn’t going to micromanage your life with a bunch of detailed programs. The church will provide a weekly sacrament service, a temple to get temple ordinances performed, missions to serve in and scriptures to read. In other words the church is going to provide the basic tools but it’s up to us to use them in ways that work for our situation.
From my experience, the new program is an epic disaster!
The prophet’s counsel was perfect. And perfect timing. The issue is with us members. It’s most definitely time for us to step up & own the work- we’re at the hinge point. But many members have become complacent & take what we have for granted- or are in the church for different reasons? You are totally on point- apathy is a huge issue. We need more heart, mind & strength! With spiritual momentum, we can make it happen. (This is easy for me to say- as I don’t technically have youth in any programs at the moment)
I was just reading before watching this about how the Lord’s work will continue on- He just may give it to another people if we take it too lightly. Is that what it will take? Not to be separate from us- but do we maybe need some new blood in the church? New bottles for the new wine. It pains my heart to see how lightly we treat the amazing gift we’ve been given. I myself can do better as well.
I was a Scout Master shortly before the separation of church and scouts. In our ward the leaders over the Young Men talked a lot about the church developing their own Young Men program that will be better than scouting. The scouting program was great for involving many young men and getting them out to activities with our scouting troop.
Incidentally the new Young Men's program was DOA much like the Ministering program. I remind priesthood holders that the Ministering program was to be more than what the Home Teaching program was. But the low bar seems to be texting your Ministering families once a quarter.
What is there currently that allows young men to lead flag ceremonies, to remind them weekly of values to live by, and instill the motto of Do a Good Turn Daily?
My bishop called me to be the Young Men's secretary, to help him separate his time from his bishopric duties and YM duties. I am also his Priest Quorum Advisor. It is really hard to use this program to the boys' benefit because the "rules" as a leader changes all the time. We can't know their goals. Wait! We now can know their goals. We can't plan the activities. The boys plan the activities. It seems like all we ever do is "plan". It's been a big headache. Most of the time, we ditch the book and do something entirely different.
When I analyze this aloud to others, I get the “don’t criticize leadership”. The rub is it’s turned on me and my children’s lack of spirituality to establish their goals.
My other observation is everyone changing levels in January. As a primary presidency member we are trying to arrange the supportive hand off of an primary kid entering deacons. The deacons quorum presidency is dissolved in Jan because he’s aging up to Teachers so there no one in charge of fellowshipping the new kid.
I also take issue with taking the names/ identity away from the YW. Can’t we have a common communicating method to describe certain groups across stakes or can we allow the girls to at least construct a name like a scout patrol did to create an identity? And tell me when the bishopric has time to meet with the primary children or YW? The times conflict with their quorum duties. I see so many parts of this as logistically setting us up for failure.
NUMBER 1 THE KIDS NEED TO BE TAUGHT BY ADULTS AND NOT TEACH THEMSELVES! There is no merit or reward system to work towards. Very sad!
Think you hit it right on the head. I was called as Bishop a few months before they got rid YM presidency and the kick off of children and youth. There is lot that can happen with the right vision but most won’t put any effort or focus on it. I was a YM president under the BSA days being Bishop and YM president was so much harder and challenging with the BSA activities for the boys to learn and grow. Feels like a lot of lost and wandering trying to keep youth engaged on Wed nights. A scout master and YM presidency did so much. A lot of Bishoprics are over loaded and just trying to keep their heads and the youths heads above water.
Check out Outdoor Boys...he's like the new and improved Mr. Rogers for showing kids how to get away from screens and learn and do awesome stuff.
My son was a teacher during the transition. He was part of the last cohort to earn Eagle Scout rank. The new program failed him completely. You don't have to tell anyone what you're goals are, so you don't actually need to have any. He struggled even with our support to learn to set goals, and he found the new program super boring. He left inactivity during his 2nd year as a priest.
I am raising 4 boys. Men need structure and brotherhood, not to set goals in private and have no oversight. They also need men to be their mentors, not another thing that their mommies nag them about. New program is not very effective.
In my experience, people can not afford to even take work off for camp outs anymore. Those who are in homes with good interest rates can give more time but the new generation is rent and house poor.
But at the same time I see that that after 2010 more people put their kids in so many sports and extracurricular activities and so now those who can afford it are not going to activities because their families can afford it and are kept busy with this. And the poor kids are in small numbers with ward activities it seemed a lot more people couldn’t afford this before 2010 so more people came to activities for fun.
My husband got assigned to do a teen and young adult group for pornography from the stake and the program is actually really good. Talks about man power and has specific goals, they really seem to make progress. It’s very structured and teaches them empowered self talk. He says he think this program could fit for all the young men and be awesome.
I noticed after this change in our area the boys summer camping just stopped. And when my husband and I were in the youth together when we talked about pulling a bit from the scouting program, it was like no we are not doing scouts any mor. You can't copy right age old skills.
I'm a Bishop and I agree with you. Also, it seems that the upper leadership is still calling older men as Bishops, who can't relate with the young men or keep up with them physically. So, there isn't much of a connection between leadership and youth. It seemed before, that the young men's president was usually a younger adult who the boys could admire and look up to. But with the older Bishops they just kind of look at them as old men, and not a role model. I also think therenis a way to do scouting things but not have it be scouting. Duty to God was a good program too. There needs to be a balance between this new program and the old.
I miss when our church was something cool, to brag about… back when I felt our leaders cared about their men and young men. Now I feel like they’re annoyed by their members and their boys and embarrassed by them.
Our stake and my ward do a fantastic job with the youth. The youth are full participants (with the leaders there to put appropriate guardrails in place when necessary). I've been surprised by the number of youth stepping up to the challenge to lead. I've seen stake leaders take advisement from the youth for ideas that were off the beaten path, but that turned out to be successful. The new program definitely can work well.
Hi Connor -- you're echoing a lot of thoughts I've had since the new program was introduced.
Beyond the issues you've raised, other big thing is that the young men's program has been effectively defunded -- especially for smaller wards like mine (on the East Coast). There's just hardly any room for planning significant young men's outings such as camping trips, when the entire ward budget is $3,000 / year. And on top of that leaders are told in the manual not to fund activities and not to ask parents to fund activities (except for the annual young men's camp).
I think to some degree that the church itself has become infected by the woke mind virus and that's why they've made the program the exact same between young men and young women, so of course the new program isn't going to be optimized towards helping young men become men.
I think my youngest son needs more guidance in developing his masculinity. When does your book come out?
I saw that the church was failing my son and I started taking him to Trail Life. He loves it. You have to be a trinitarian to be a leader. As I'm a deist I can't lead. But I make sure to take him every time. He is even interested in reading the bible now. Where before he had no interest in the bible.
Trail life and American heritage girls are great programs. People won't support them in Utah and probably never will because the church didn't say it's ok.
West Jordan UT. The last 3 wards I've lived in and been involved with the young men to some degree, yes, we have a big problem to contend with here.