Charger Parts Cannon DISASTER...Fuel Gauge BROKEN After Pump Replaced? (Part 2)
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- Опубликовано: 23 фев 2024
- Let's see what's hiding inside the fuel tank on this 2013 Dodge Charger to explain the wonky Fuel Gauge.
It was WORSE than I expected...can we make it right with no extra PARTS?
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Enjoy!
Ivan 
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New pump from dealer comes with a new connector also with instructions to swap the pump ground to pin 3, this was done because the connectors would overheat and melt with the pump power and ground next to each other
That's right! I fitted one quite recently with NO problem!
What a mess, Ivan! Wrong pump, incorrectly installed and partly dismembered! After a lot of time collecting information, you got the whole picture and restored functionality. Superb job!!
A wild animal can do less damage.... Wow
Someone had NO business working on that.
@@volvo09 Mice would only chew the wires, not mix them all 🙂
The experts broke the damn thing and kicked it down the road. You are absolutely amazing. "DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME"
Don't forget, they also got paid for it. Prolly drank a few brews off the money as well....
It's crazy they returned the car to the customer in this state 😳
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnosticsNew guy who was in a hurry. No supervision. Boss has no idea and customers aren't smart enough to explain there is a problem. Most shops don't go over the work done, should have an 2nd tech verify the work is correct. But it's all about book time.
It's an update to the wiring harness connector i literally ran into this issue last night when I installed a new pump on a 2015 5.7l. I was initially confused myself then I found a TSB and found the new connector in the fuel pump box.
Wiring is correct. There was a change due to connectyor overheating with power and ground being too close. New pumps have instructions to re-wire with a new connector.
That sounds like a believable explanation.
Wow I'll be on the lookout for that now! Wonder why it's only an issue on these cars...fuel pumps have been around for a loooong time haha
Yep, @brainknight6661 is correct. This even goes back to the oem replacement pumps on the 2010 challengers to. Surprised Alldata doesn't show this update?
@@cm-hw5ww Man, right under the back seat as well.
Chevy truck and van fuel pumps have had an updated fuel pump connector for years. So nothing new but service info should have this listed
always take pictures of wiring/hoses before removal so you know how to put it back. the wiring is a different nightmare. In the old days when I ran a shop I would get out the polaroid for jobs like this because we ran 24/7 so who knows who would likely have to install new parts.
Two words.... Cluster and you know the second word.
It's a Chrysler f#@& 😂
I know it's a fuster cluck.
Ivan, you have amazing patience and perseverance. Thank you!
It takes a knowledgeable diagnostician not a parts swapper, to figure out others mistakes and correct them to make the system work properly.
Good one Ivan!
Just did a fuel pump on an Audi a4 with a very similar pump design. The transfer lines and the spaghetti wiring along with a full tank and not getting the float arm tangled in a hose or wire. Test of patience for sure! Well done man!
That sounds like fun Josiah! Spaghetti for sure lol!
This pump design is a leftover from the Daimler Chrysler days. It makes sense that the A4 looks alike.
Rover in the UK used a similar Valeo made system on the Rover 75 and MG ZT with the additional problem of an in-tank filter that is prone to self-disassenbly. On the MG-Rovers the float sensors are wired in series. Without understanding all that is crammed inside the tank well intentioned owners often try to renew the filter and cause havoc with the fuel guage.
I worked on an old d3 bulldozer and had no choise but to cut and make aftermarket wires, i just used my label printer and labled each wire manually. Also left my phone number there. 14 years later, I had a guy call me. He explained that his dad bought this buldozer and my labeling made his repairs so much better, to the point that they got themselves a labler too ti be able continue labeling things. He thanked me for like an hour of phone call 😂. But it felt good to know that over a decade later people appreciate your work
This awesome Ivan…your video is better than any movie hollyweird puts out! 😂🇺🇸
Agreed. Seeing that he's also an Ally is also top notch.
I haven't been to the theater in years...Not too many good movies made since the 90s haha
Word😊
Ivan, I have to say that you really are great at what you do
All your work is online for the next person to view if necessary. This was quite the challenge. Looks like another mystery solved.
What was wrong with old school. One pump and one float assembly and maybe a couple baffles for sloshing.
We need more diagnostic mechanics like you Ivan. You're great
Nice touch showing and explaining how the auxiliary siphon pump works.
Death by Engineering…..what an overly-complex pump design…!
It ain't *that* complicated. It's just dual fuel tanks like you can get as a factory option on a Silverado or F-150. Those even do the same auto transfer thing this does, although they used to make you flip a switch when you ran out of gas in the tank the engine was using.
Its really not that complicated. Two fuel level sensors and a venturi tube design thats been around for hundreds of years. Having it installed incorrectly is really the fault of the design.
Pr@@JackS425 problem is there is a lot of plumbing and wiring crammed inside these saddle tanks that can trip those who are not expecting it.
For the sake of a couple of gallons less fuel capacity manufacturers could do away with the saddle tank design.
I would venture to say that it's an Italian design.
on the new fuel pump has the instructions to change the connector. it's a new design. good diagnostic on the fuel level sensor
I've had many pumps that were clocked wrong. So I had to disassemble them and put them in the orientation I needed. That isn't always possible depending on the design. I've also learned to feather through TSBs and recalls to be aware of repairs that may have been performed prior.
Yep, and in this case there is a TSB for the requirement to replace and rewire the connector.
@@johnaclark1 I know I posted it in part 1.
Again a human error and not a machine failure. Finding such an issue was not too terrible due to the wiring work but despite nice job Ivan like always!
The pen fuel pump and connector have overheating issues
love your wiring note, simple explanation of a ghost !! 👍
What an engineering "cluster f***" !!! Yet another example of engineering design being needlessly complex. Still, nice one Ivan for managing to get your head around this spaghetti nightmare. Another job well done as always. Cheers M8
Always enjoy watching your videos great job.
Another brilliant diagnostic. Hope the customer is pleased with the results.
Great job as always.
Great couple videos, Ivan... Thanks for your patience and your ability to explain your thoughts and what you're seeing. You're a wizard!
Ivan, you just made my weekend! You're the only other person I've seen leave a change log attached to an altered harness. Thank you!!
@@rhkips. I've left a little 'info' card on wirin!
We had to supply 10V ac all around a gaming room in a cub & under the floor for the players card point systems. One bank of pokies started having problems. The fix was to run that particular bank of pokies' card units off the 15V ac connection of the power transformer packs, instead of the 10V.
This bank of pokies was furthest from any power of the power packs, & we were just using thin guage speaker zip cord wire. With such a long run of power cable the voltage drop was too excessive, & the supply voltage to the readers was not high enough for them to work reliably. No more probs after that but I zip-tied a cardboard note on the power pack & everybody lived happily ever after!
That transfer pump system is so genius. No additional moving parts just using fluid dynamics and one part to do something that could require significantly more components.
The whole concept of two halves of the tank is a nightmare all the vehicles I have ever worked on have one single tank (a lot of them were weird shapes)but still only one pump.I hope I never run into one of those things because my answer to the owner will be take it elsewhere.Cheers Ivan.
They relocate the connector pins to avoid having the main pump wires next to each other on the replacements. I remember the first one I did, fun times.
Rockauto diagrams are really helpful, I've used them on a 69 mustang when not sure.
good looking out bro I had a few moments like that note it makes a difference
Nice work, Ivan, but what a complete ball ache. Gona will be bringing you my 1996 Mitsubishi Pajero Mini over the summer. Want you to install a new timing belt and tensioner. I have not driven it that much, but I notice a tendency for it to stall out when it gets hot. I think it may be running a bit rich. Should make for another good video!
Saturday video, *you go Ivan*
Er..1st year Apprentice installed the pump and re wired the pump connections to show the supervisor mechanic it worked fine..oh dear definitely seen this situation before …great diagnostic work and verification Ivan👍
Someone should start a channel where they diagnose the mental state of automotive engineers that design and engineer these 'systems'. LOL
A saddle tank with a venturi pump? Absolutely standard on vehicles with two fuel tanks
Ivan, you got patience brother. I got anxiety when you first pulled the pump out and saw the hackshop carnage.
Ivan the diagnoser
Isn't it the truth when a car comes in with a fuel pump problem it's always got a full tank, which was never in it's lifetime before or will be after the repair.
Before you left the note, I was going to suggest that and when I saw you did it! That was amazing. I thought I was the only one that did that lol great video Ivan we love all your hard work and appreciate you bunches and bunches!❤
Thanks for the video Ivan.
Wow, what a mess! ... Good job Ivan!
Cool video. The butchered ones are always a blast.
Wow, what a botched job that is! If I were a customer, I would approve the OEM pump and have it done right!! At least you made it right with aftermarket one. Nice job Ivan!!
I'm very impressed of your skills!
Great job!
Can they make it any more complicated to pump a little fuel to the engine?
Well i will say it....this got me all pumped up. Great repair. It is sad that some technicians are sub par and then some are way above par...like you.
I can't believe that they returned the car to the customer like this 😂
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Truth
Designing a fuel system with 2 pumps, associated plumbing and wiring effectively doubles the chance of failure. Good move on leaving a note.
Thanks.
Ivan is one of the best techs I've seen.
Amazing job . My hats off 🤠
What a mess it's a miracle that still worked and didn't cause a fire or break into pieces and clogged the fuel lines up
What is really sad is none of that was needed. You basically cyphered through that to get things to work correctly. I had to change the fuel pump on the Marquis recently because it was experiencing extended crank time so, I suspected the fuel pump was getting weak. (It did have almost 400,000 miles on it.) 8 bolts, the fuel line, and the plug and we're back in business. GREAT VIDEO!
Thanks Ivan!
I know that GM changed the fuel pump connector so the first time you change the pump the connector will be wrong, the new pumps come with the upgraded connector, so the next if you have to change the pump it will just plug in, this was the case in my 97 S10 and my 2001 LeSabre, the only reason I had to change the pump in my S10 was because the gauge stopped working. The new connector doesn't come with a wiring diagram, they're color coded but I remember two wires were switched around just like here, the Buick pump is accessible through the trunk but the truck you have to drop the tank or butcher the bed which I wasn't about to do or remove the bed, I chose to remove the tank and payed that I got the wires right which thankfully I did.
Nice.
Glad it has fuel pump access holes under the seat. Those cars do drive nice, maybe still have some MB DNA. I hated the stupid rotary shifter though.
Well done Ivan:-D, i imagine that was so easy in comparison to the bloody nightmares you have had to fight.
I can understand why things got mixed up, colours are never the same.
The resistive element might end up backwards on the fuel gauge lol.
I've been ill Ivan so i missed everything.
Get better soon!
That is an aircraft fuel system. Fuel transfers from tank to tank to maintain/manage weight balance.
😂😂😂👍👍👏👏🇺🇲
Hmmm crimp and seals… you sure Eric O wasn’t here? 😂
Ivan, Appreciate ur time and effort i wished those part changer would not touch a car the way they did to this one i fell for the owner and the money he payed for nothing and to make his life miserable. thanks for sharing.
Thanks!
TSB 08-152-23 or 08-032-17 mandate that due to corrosion/heat/arcing between the adjacent B+ and GND pins the fuel pump should be replaced ...Arcing??!!! ARCING???!!! I never liked in-tank fuel pumps because of the explosion potential. Heating is bad enough; I could be wrong, but if there is an arc between two pins, would not the tank of gas explode?
No. The air/fuel ratio will always be to rich to burn.
"Theoretically speaking", an intact gas tank should be too "Fummie" to just explode internally on its own because the oxygen level and gasoline fume level mixture must be very precise to go off. On the other hand, creating a tiny fire which soon becomes a very large fire seems like a given.
Very good video Ivan, but aren't all of them, lol!!
Great vid Ivan! This is a perfect example as to why I NEVER take my cars to shops for weird things like you found. Butchers and halfwits that dont much care what they do to a car as long as they collect the money for it. It also helps to illustrate why I will never buy a newer car. Too many problems in the wiring are possible. Old school all the way for me!
Most of the problems caused by garages are because non-mechanics tell the real mechanics what the job is and how long it can take. I very much doubt that any time served man would deliberately leave a mess such as this.
adda boy Ivan, quality work as usual, having to fix so called, "MEN'S" work.
Yay part 2 finally
Terrific example of a system predisposed to misdiagnosis with a factory requirement for modification! So the connector pins are too small, and the "fix" is to move the higher-current pins farther from each other? I'd say they are still too likely to overheat if environmental conditions change.... congratulations on negotiating a minefield safely! I'll bet there are thousands of these cars out there with malfunctioning fuel gages, or using only half the original fuel capacity.....
Yeah, moving the pin gave a whopping inch of extra surface for heat dissipation. If it was getting that hot, this fix isn’t enough, while also being confusing to mechanics. Lose lose.
Best in the business!!
Amazing how bad that last shop screwed this job up so badly. I bet they don't get much repeat customers. Outside of comebacks, I'm sure. But anyway Ivan. That is the updated FDM for these cars. Both aftermarket and factory. I believe there was a recall on it for melting fuel pump wire harness connector. That is the fix. I know how much you dislike crimp butt connectors. Did you leave it like that? Because my OCD was kicking in wanting to repair those wires properly.
People who work on their own vehicle and install parts wrong. Seen that many times. They don't want to admit it. So they blame someone else or a shop. They wouldn't mention the name. 😅😅😅
It's always some shop that messed it up.
@@2nickles647 Good point as I've seen that happen before too. I have one regular customer that's always blaming his GF for damages done to his pride and joy Charger R/T.
I read in another post below that there may have been a wiring change which would explain the hack. It would be cool to know if that is true.
What's the bet 'prior shop' in the customers description = next door neighbor and a carton of beer.
…Ivan to the rescue of another hack install..👍
amazing video
Dude you are a genius.
Great work. Hopefully he doesn’t have a check engine light now lol
Perhaps Trabant cars were not that bad after all Comrade..
Never driven one...are those 2-strokes?
Ya, as long as there is gravity, the fuel will feed properly.
i know this doesnt relate to this video but i had a question. 2007 jeep compass ac compressor variable clutch has no power . good ground good connection to pcm tested the wire to pin 6 c2 light blue/ white. i think the pcm cant drive it. no volts. even if i drive it with the think tool pro. can the thinktool pro program vin on those? thanks Love your vids I have learned tons
It’s always “fun” cleaning up someone else’s botched work.
Maybe someone else is right in that the wiring changed, but that hacking is just bad.
I recently rescued a Grand Caravan from a hack who damaged more than repaired. It’s finally back but I can only shake my head and the poor work. Or the shop who cut wires to make a fuel pump work on my nephews Crown Victoria. 😮
Some people need to never pick up a tool again. 😊
Hi ivon. Really enjoy your videos. How did you go about getting your trade. Just out of curiosity.
See website 😊
The way the pumps work is the drivers side supplies pass side by dumping straight to tank them straight to motor
*IVAN* Stellantis TSB 08-152-23 or 08-032-17 mandate that due to corrosion/heat/arcing between the adjacent B+ and GND pins the fuel pump should be replaced with the revised part, which features the swapped wires, and the harness side connector repinned accordingly to fit! As you always preach: CHECK FOR TSBs *FIRST* ! The other shop did this correctly, you are wrong to bash them on this at least!
Affected models:
**2010**-2016(LX)Chrysler300
2011-2016(LD)Dodge Charger
2015-2016(LA)Dodge Challenger
**2010**-2014(LC)Dodge Challenger
Very interesting! Does the TSB also instruct the shop to shove the pump in backwards and lay it on the side? xD
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnosticsThat's optional!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics that guarantees a return customer. 😂
ALL DATA FOR THE WIN . except for not showing the rewire recommendation for overheating connectors...
I hate when I get a car that has been man handled....Great job Ivan...p.s. I hate working around gas tanks stuff is so flammable...
Always disconnect the ground before trying to fire a parts cannon. Ivan with those sunglasses you look perfect in a 10 year old charger with a jury rigged fuel pump.
This is a completly stupid construction, over engineered and a waste of resources.
Why so complicated, keep it simple. Automotiv manufacturers are a pain in the axx.
Luckily the owner found you to fix his car properly.
Thx for all the good videos and explainetions. 👍
Too complicated. Owned a 1987 jaguar xj6 with dual tanks. Just a button on the dash to switch between tanks. Always worked with no issues. Some people would fill one tank with regular for city driving and super in the other for highway.
no bonus footage showing the fuel gauge move? It was always at quarter tank. LOL
2 shops and they couldn't get it right??? Like you said, it wasn't supposed to be hard!
There are some people that take joy in knowing someone will have problems down the road and think it's funny.
Aftermarket pumps use a different connector bue to overheating
I know if my float it is not installed properly in my toilet that it will not flush. It seems like you can not wait to flush that toilet.
You are a total stud, but IMHO here, your labor rate trying to sort this out probably costs the customer money as opposed to just getting the correct OEM pump and switching the two wires back.
Both pumps would run a grand so my diag was wayyy cheaper lol!
Glad you don't smoke. Normally have to lite a cigarette to think on 😅
What a simple
Great design !🤣
Thanks !
This was one of those where you spent more time researching then actually working on the car. What a mess it was.
Wow!!
So good to follow hacks