Oooohhh, you want to OWN the stuff you pay YOUR money on? How preposterous, don't you know that these corporations NEED to make money in order to survive? Foolish, greedy consumers.
I mean its a trade off reason printers are so cheap is because they know they will make up on the ink. Hence refillable printers are expensive. They aren't taking a loss in order to recoup later on. I have a an Epson that set me back $450 but its refillable. Those are more sustainable since they are better built and refillable.
@@triadwarfare Can’t do that either with some of them, some don’t actually have any ink empty sensor and so assume empty and force change after some metric has passed(estimated ink used, age, pages print etc).
Not to mention the default cartridge protection bs during pc software package installation, or the fact that in my hp printer, if you take printheads out or worse, even dare to unlock and re-lock them in, not even taking them out, there is nothing you can do, it will not print.
The ink being deactivated feels like the thin end of the wedge. This instance seems genuinely harmless, but it's a model that could (will) become very atrocious very fast.
Yes. The fact that this works means they can just turn off cartridges whenever they want. Or just stop allowing certain printers to work at no cost to themselves.
@@jamesclarkson156 It can be used politically as well. Printing fliers big brother doesn't want you to print? We shut down your printer. It sounds like a bad joke sadly.
This model is copied from industrial printers. I work in industry where packaging is printed with ie. best before date. Such machines have had rfid's in their ink and makeup cartridges for something like 10 years. They have expiry dates coded in them and and there's counters like your cartridge will be rejected if you insert same cartridge more than three times, so you can't fill or change them between printers. Yes, it's big middle finger for owners and yeah, they're priced pretty steeply obviously.
@@flamingkittyumad Actually having those features means that there's rfid or something that makes cartridge detectable, meaning that 3rd party stuff can be very easily blocked if wanted. This does happen on industrial machines.
I have an HP printer that I use as a scanner. It’s one of the old ones, so it still has that weird feature where you can scan without ink. Why would anyone scan without ink?! You have to have ink to absorb the colors from the paper and put them on the USB port!!!
@LabRat Knatz i remember that when i was at college in 2016-2018, one time when i was using one of the computers, the screen suddenly went pink (i think either i adjusted the display when it happened, or someone else did something which caused it to happen) athough this did not result in IT having to come over, as i knew it was a loose VGA cable
@LabRat Knatz My mom was embarrassed when you did that. She came home all distraught and upset because a tech had laughed at her....Unfortunately she has passed and never got a real apology for your behavior....
@@walterwhite2270 Dude he didn't laugh at your fuckn mom and besides if she was that butt hurt about making a small mistake it's probably for the best she's not around anymore
@LabRat Knatz30+ years in IT has only taught me to not automatically dismiss outlandish stories about retail. Clients have often been super weird since I can remember, and that's 1990.
Several years ago HP was busted for sending "updates" to printers that bricked the print head in order for you to buy a new print head. I had one. So, I bought a Kodak printer and they did the same thing. So, now I have a "dumb" Brother all-in-one laser printer with no access to the internet and haven't had one issue.
@@Lostcontroller I still have my Brother Fax machine from the 90's that took a roll of "paper". I don't think I would ever buy another brand and will never buy anything that connects to the internet anymore. lol Just the computer and phone. Because if a company ever bricked my coffee maker I'd be out for blood.
@@TechRIP Buy a French Press for your coffee making needs. You will never have to experience a manufacturer telling you that you can't own your coffee maker ever again.
I concur. For years HP offered excellent printers and I never bought from any other company but this new policy is so offensive that I might never buy from them again. IF they reverse this disgusting practice I MIGHT consider buying from HP again in the future.
@@MhnFive _“Clowns to the Left of You, Jokers to the Right”_ ruclips.net/video/G0wgG_HYov8/видео.html It is, what it is, but I have no clue why this was the first thing I thought about. You are probably correct though. RUclips is not human and is very strange.
surprised no one has. I remember that video that trended a while back about how ink cartridges are a scam (AustinMcConnell made the video) and doesn't really propose a solution at the end of the whole thing. If a 3D printer can be open source, why not a regular printer?
@@TerminalWorld I would pay double myself. Being able to install plug-ins would be amazing, and being able to use third party or refillable ink would recoup the cost.
I just experienced this myself and was very frustrated. What makes it worse is that it seems every company is using, or going to, a subscription model, making it almost impossible to tell them they are wrong by taking my business elsewhere. Keep fighting the good fight Louis!!!
Not surprised by this. I was living in Asia and bought an HP Laser printer. when I relocated to Europe I wanted to take the printer with me and checked if they had the same model in Europe since I would need to buy toner cartridges. Once I was in Europe went to buy tonner cartridges only to realize that HP cartridges can be used only in printers from the same region, meaning the only way for me to use the printer in Europe would be to go to Asia and buy cartridges there. It seems that HP printers are regions restricted. That same day I went to the electronics shop and bought a Brother printer that uses refillable ink. I will never again buy HP printers. We... the consumers do have the power of choice, don’t buy from those companies.
You can change the region of the printer but you'd need to call support for that. At least for inkjet printers. For laserjets I believe it's as simple as an nvram reset or power-cycle. Rest assured all printer manufacturers region lock their printers.
@@TheEuropeanFox All of them absolutely region lock their printers, whether it's physical differences in the cartridge, or in the circuitry. We had a few customers when I worked at a refiller who had brought printers from overseas. It was interesting.
@@TheEuropeanFox why the fuck do you region lock a printer? Its not a game or movie where maybe someone else got a license to some piece of art what was used to create it in that region?
So I actually discovered this a year ago or so after canceling my subscription with ink left over, and the printer utility telling me to restart my subscription. So, I just threw the printer across the room and forgot about it. Then, a few months back I was at a buddy's house who had the same printer and just so happened to be replacing their ink while I was there. So I asked if I could have their empty cartridges which they were going to just throw away and they said yes, because I now had an idea. After getting home with my empty cartridges I simply swapped the little ribbon cable/chip info/ID thing (sorry the actual name of the part is blanking atm) from the empty cartridges onto my full ones from HP Instant Ink and there we go. After reinserting the old carts. with the "new" ID/Info ribbon cable/chip things it worked perfectly. This is also how ink counterfeiters get their fake carts. or drums to be able to function and be recognizable by the printer. Now this was of course a lot of effort and a bit of luck stumbling on empty carts. the same model number as what I needed, but was very satisfying to tell that stupid printer to it could get F*&$^ed after I tricked it into printing. Time well spent from where I stand.
The empty cartridges were just normal, non-subscription ones, right? Just clarifying Also does the swap actually still allow printer to read the amount of ink that's in the cartridge that you "upgraded" that way?
You can't do that with Brother. The little chip tab keeps a record of how much ink is used and permanently reports empty when it's done. Refills are impossible. I love the printer I have, but I'm restricted to using only Brother ink. I haven't yet checked if it will scan when the ink is out. Brother also has a discount subscription plan that I haven't checked out yet.
Don't forget that these printer companies are now boldly proclaiming how eco-friendly they are because they are "introducing" refillable ink cartridges (only after they took them away in the first place)
“Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.” - Frank Herbert
Groups of primates, humans in this conversation, always fall into hierarchies. Always. Technology or no technology. That's one thing old Ted doesn't seem to get. We've always been that way, always will be....
My decision on never getting HP was based on their terrible software engineering. I threw away a HP colour laser printer and scanner combo because it wouldn't start up. Tried all the reset procedures but nothing recovered it. It's a common problem as well. They didn't get any toner sales from me as it never lasted long enough to get past the supplied toner cartridge.
I used Epsons for years, both with official ink and 3rd party cartridges and had a lot of hassle with them. My last 2 printers have been HPs, mostly with Instant Ink and they've been a lot better
I used to be a HP in store sales rep. I didn't like having to always explain the service to people, but it is not a bad deal. Ink cartridges and printheads tend to clog frequently if you don't use them regularly. If you are not printing much and you get a printer with 2 cartridge system you are getting a new printhead with each cartridge and if one clogs you will always have a backup at home with the service. The only way you will pay more than buying cartridges on the service is if you never print on a regular schedule. The downside is HP can change the price of their service and start charging you more in the future, of course they increase cartridge price every year too.
I can see why HP does this tho. It's to prevent someone from signing up for the cheapo $1 subscription, getting the ink cartrdiges, then immediately cancelling, effectively buying the ink for $1 instead of the $60 or whatever they want. I still find the whole ink business practice absolutely revolting, so I buy knock off toner cartridges for this reason, even if they are problematic.
@@failaip12 we've had the service at varying levels for a couple years. The ink cartridges seem to be filled the same amount. Shipping costs are a huge factor in this, so they don't want to be shipping people a new cartridge every month if they can get away with once or twice a year.
HP was once a very fine company which was one of the leading manufacturers of electronic test equipment in the world and essentially invented the pocket scientific calculator. Curse you Carly Fiorina for turning this fine company into a shister purveyor of extremely over priced ink. Epson Ecotank may cost a bit more but to purchase but comes with enough ink to last most people years, and replacement ink is cheap enough that the cost is a non-issue.
@@superninja252 Amen. I still have multiple 1980s HP 12-C calculators which run perfectly. I still recommended them to everyone. We used to use HP laser printers exclusively at.my office since the first HP LaserJet. We stopped last year due to the crap quality HP has become.
Are you talking about agilent and keysight? Or am I outdated and those business have yet new names, because anything successful tries to distance it self as fare away as possible from Hewlett-Packard?
I still got my Epson all-in-one printer from 10 years ago that I bought for $40 and fill with knock-off ink cartridges from Amazon that works perfectly.
I will only buy epson, especially now with the ecotank printers. It's so cheap I still use the epson OEM bottles. F*ck All of these "great reset" type, rent it but you sorta own it type things. It's such a crock of sh*t.
Got Also an Epson but the damn thing need a cartridge of red ink to work ... Right now can't do bip bip with it !!! It's also a Stylus Photo R1900 Printer so probably going to go with refillable tanks to solve this !!!!
I do the same with my crusty old HP. But the print heads are part of the printer and not the cartridges. So it's a matter of time before she's too clogged to work well
I have this subscription service. My thoughts are this: I use my printer a few times a month. Several weeks can go by without using it. The ink dries up from the dry air and lack of use and I end up blowing money on new cartridges. The service is priced based on how many pages you print. So for me it made sense. It also saves me trips to Staples. However, I don't like the whole disabling thing. You can get around it temporarily. You simply disconnect the printer from the internet BEFORE you cancel. It will never get the updated info then. However, my guess is that there is a built in timer (say 14 days or whatever) when the printer will tell you to reconnect to continue printing.
Base on the printing & cartridge options available and my printing requirement HP instank ink made sense for me aswell. I've watch friends spend hundreds of dollars on ink that dry's up. it costs printer companies cents to make something that cost $60. the Subscription I have cost me $0 a month, only have to pay if I go over 15 pages. They send me new ink(for free don't have to pay for it) everytime it runs low. Since i've switch to this plan i've not gone over my 15 pages per month limit. I've been printing for free for close to 2 years now. I'm okay with them disabling printing on the cartridges because after all that's not what your paying for. I do like they give you the option aswell not to participate and purchase standard cartridges' aswell. i.imgur.com/DHWsShp.png
This is a perfect example of why you'd want to participate in this program. I completely ditched inkjet printers about a year and a half ago because I was sick of buying ink, using it two or three times over several months, and then finding it has dried up (often when I'm on a deadline to get something printed). I'm curious how this program handles automatic refills for dried up cartridges, though. Do they automatically send you a new cartridge if you've gone too long without printing because they know the old one will not be usable? The $0/mo plan Whut mentions sounds like an absolute steal! I wouldn't see myself ever going over 15 pages in a month. That honestly feels like it would meet most home users' printing needs. I use a laser printer now, but if I were in the market for a new inkjet printer, signing up for free ink delivered right to my house would be a no brainer. Had I been aware of this program before, I probably wouldn't have even bought the laser printer in the first place.
The problem with the dried up ink cartridges was exactly the reason why I subscribed to that service. However, you don't get any new ink delivery in that case, only when the printer sees your cartridge going empty. So I ended up buying new cartridges myself anyway. Which makes the whole subscription utterly useless. So I canceled it. And had to buy new cartridges AGAIN, because the goddamn system doesn't differenciate between instant ink and self bought cartridges. When you cancel the subscription service, your old cartridges are seen as instant ink ones per default. Even if they were recognized as non-instant ink before! THAT'S the most enfuriating thing about this whole stupid system!!
Had them. When the printer broke, canceled the program, I thought. Realized 6 months later I was still being charge. It took a long frustrating time to not only get it stopped, but a refund. They finally returned 3 months. They said there’s no record of the stop order. I switched to Brother. No more Ink programs.
i discovered this a few years ago when my roomate, who lost her debit card frequently, suddenly couldn't print. we owned a printer, it had ink, had paper yet nothing would print. Since she had received a new card she hadn't updated her info, so HP nerfed the printer. I have vowed to never give HP any money ever again and even did a product study for an HP device where I was very vocal that I felt the policies regarding things like this as well as requiring a subscription to receive firmware updates for legacy devices (such as servers) was abhorrent.
@@comicalhexical to ask for continued updates for outdated hardware is unreasonable. To paywall updates that are being released anyway and at the same time brick/nerf devices that don't receive these updates is criminal. They can paywall the updates without making other versions unusable.
You know, I don't get HP at all. Their business line of laptops (ProBook) are top of the line. Very reliable. Very functional. Lots of support. Anything else from them though just seems to suck ass. It's like they're screwing over consumers in order to funnel it all into their business/enterprise sector.
@@blindaceg the comment above didn't state anything about bricking devices/nerfing hardware(at least not for the servers) so I assumed that wasn't an issue. And you just said to ask for continued updates of outdated hardware was unreasonable. So why can't they charge you if you still want updates for hardware that's 10 years old or more?
imagine being the programmer that gets paid high 4-digit or even 5-digit sum a month for implementing this "feature" I sure wouldn't mind being this guy
XantheFIN lol. No. Can you make subscription permanent? Your printer just automatically reads your credit card numbers and subscribes for ink itself. In order to cancel subscription you need to take printer to HP headquarters in Afghanistan in person where local tribe leader performs exorcism on it.
Honestly feels like the whole ink-printing industry was constructed around a shady business practice. To virtually create a re-occurring demand that doesn't really need to exist. I remember my dad buying a full set of ink during the 90's, only to print a couple of pages, then requiring to "clean" the cartridges (due to them being dried out, due to typical home usage), which ate up a lot of extra ink. In the end a full set allowed for about 40 pages, total. and not the 300 pages + 150 colored pages as advertised. I remember thinking this was evil in my youth... but yeah, this is just next stage of evil. Anyway, later we bought a laser printer in the early 2000s with a cartridge that was supposed to print 1500 pages... he never changed it, has never used all of it. Still uses the same printer to this day.
Worse, some printers will perform (on their own) "cleaning" cycles every so often which uses a bunch of ink even if you don't specifically request a print head cleaning. You could install a brand new cartridge and after enough time, you would find the cartridge is now empty from these "cleaning" cycles.
I had similar issues with low ink usage, so I long ago ditched ink and went over to a laser printer, where a printer can sit idle/off for months and still function with no issues.
same here - my "fix" was to shop "backwards" - (1) I switched to a laser printer, I didn't need color and toner doesn't dry out (2) looked up the cheapest toner cartridge then bought the printer it fit. It turned out to be a cheap Brother printer ($90) and used it for over 12 years with no issues. I could let it set unused for months and it would start right up.
As someone who almost never used my scanner or printer (maybe once a year), these new trends in printers are turning me off the idea of even buying a new one if I ever need to replace my current one.
Just buy a laser printer. It's slightly more to start but you should end up paying less in the long run. Or just send your stuff to a print shop if you only need a printer a few times per year.
I'm in a similar boat - I print less than 10 pages per month, but it's nice to have a printer. I think for those people, these printers tend to be the best value. You can choose to use regular ink (for regular-ink prices) or get the free ink and only be charged by how many pages you print. They had a "free" plan if you printed less than 10-15 pages per month and then $1.00 total for the next 10 pages after that. If you print 10 pages, you pay nothing - if you print 18 that month, you pay $1. The nice thing is they send you free ink (color and black and white) whenever you want. So rather than using the same ink cartridge for 2 years and having it dry up, you can request new (free) ones as needed, and you're only charged based on what you print. The other benefit is that if you print a lot of photos, you can print 10 full-page color photos with this and it's still only counted as "10 pages". Getting the "free" ink in these cases, where it would normally be used up quickly, is a huge benefit!
Canon printers are still my go to regardless of the stupid scanning debacle. Unlike a lot of the other brands you can find 3rd party cartridges for most if not all of their printers for a fraction of the price of what the name brands will charge you. You can buy 3 full sets of 5 cartridges (15 total) for ten dollars for my printer and the one named in that can't scan without ink lawsuit.
Just get a laser multifunctional device like I dod after my HP PSC 1410 ink one - I hated that one soo much because the printing que was stuck all the time and you could not empty it even after restarting it, took a lot of time to empty its cache. I got a Samsung laser printer and I am happy with it. Too bad Samsung printer division was bought by HP...
HP Instant Ink is like a Juicero (but the company made a speedrun in failing as fast they could), Imagine connecting a Juicer to a wifi and scanning the juice packages to make sure you're legit to use them. This is the same thing for the HP.
ahem. allo? green HP electrons only. flowing thru the certified HP diamond-grade 100% rust-free copper wires. To deliver the very best of customer experience. Because no other party but us cares about the end consumers. америка и европа, вы ебанулись, честное слово. :/
I made the decision AGES ago to move to a color laser printer (which at the time seemed very frivolous and expensive)... but when you factor in the fact that I don't print very much and have only replaced the toner once since original purchase, it's SO much less expensive than ink jets with the ink that is always out on the rare occasions I want to print (dried up, etc.). It's a bit silly that people who print very rarely are better served by a more expensive printer, but that's the way the cookie crumbles (at least for me). Since working those numbers for myself, I have advocated for most of the people I know getting into color laser instead of ink jet, as their use case parallels mine... most won't be sold, because the upfront cost is so different and the toner replacement is scary expensive... but in the end, with laser, you at least get to use what you pay for.
yeah i'd love to see the executives be skinned alive and injected with caustic chemicals while they're conscious and have it fcking broadcast nationally.
that was mandated by the US Gov as well as others yrs ago while it can tie printed material to a printer it cant prove who printed it nor whom owns the printer unless you are a complete idiot
@LunarVVolf no.. thats an unfair assumption and a very foolish one as well. Not everyone in IT is corrupt.. I am not,... Rossman isn't either.. and not all of the companies are either.. but there are a bunch of them that are.. but to say it all is due to the bad ones is very short sighted at the least.
@@kindanyume I, for one, can't think of a company other than Framework that I can look at and say "yeah, those guys really, genuinely care about their customers". All the "we care about our consumers" or "look, we're so eco friendly" rant is the same worn-out corporate script, and I don't buy any of it. Just because their customer service rep is forced to be all nice and bubbly doesn't mean I'm gonna believe all their BS.
I remember once when I had a HP printer to avoid all these HP shit I flashed my printer with a modified firmware and I could even print black and white if the other colors are empty so Im relay grateful to whoever made that firmware
This is why I stopped buying HP printers. Like others have said here, dimished functionality when one or more colors go out. And 'a long time ago' only HP print carts could be used due to the is same tech in the print cartridge, non HP carts could not be used.
I have HP Instant Ink and yes, when you cancel a subscription or forget to pay they suspend your account and even if you haven't used all your ink from the subscription they will prevent it being used
Just wait until car manufacturers decide to go to the subscription model and decide that your car is no longer eligible to drive, even though you purchased it. Tesla can be dodgy when it comes to used cars.
@@quicke5486 Sadly, I don't think the sheeple will bleat loud enough for it to matter, especially the millennials. They seem happy to do whatever someone in a power position tells them to do, blindly.
My Epson office printer requires all colors be available, even if only monochrome black printing is desired. It will allow you to go into a "Permit temporary black printing" mode for a little while, and then it just stops working all together, even if the black cartridge is full! This came with some firmware update as I've never run into that before. I don't think I've been more furious at a company and was close to that one scene from "Office Space"!
I don't think it's any consolation but until last year, my father would get a new HP printer every time the old one broke (we got 3 in a span of 20 years) and all HP printers I have ever seen have always had the issue you are reporting. The only difference would be that HP would just be complaining there's no color ink instead of giving "Permit temporary black printing" option. Before the last printer broke it would be really painful to make it print in black only anyway.
I understand the reason behind of that: BW and color cartridges are on the same head and if 1 color is out the part of the head could become dry and malfunction. But they could mention that in manual and allow me to print because sometimes it is really matters!
What my fear is if they are putting out a ink subscription service and they can detect that type of cartridge vs on other OEM. what's stopping them from using whatever chip to detect a non OEM cartridge or refilled cartridge and either prevent it from working or purposely reducing the life of it to make the subscription service artificially seem better.
Funny thing is that you can also buy new business oriented hp printers for about 200 usd in which, among other things, you can disable non OEM cartridge detection and low ink warnings via their own app. They are just more expensive than typical home printer
@@milospavlovic4599 (some?) office pronters also come with lots of troubles like internet connection requirement (doesn't matter if your company LAN isn't connected to WAN - it's your problem now), licensing, double-triple-price cartridges, etc. etc.
I think in the HP instant ink circumstance, HP should give you the option to buy that ink cartridge at the retail price minus the ink you've already used. I understand that if you pay $1 for some ink and they give you an entire ink cartridge that might be worth 10 or $20 that you shouldn't be able to take 10 or $20 from them after only having given them $1. It does seem kind of weird. They could always put in the fine print that you'll get auto charged for the full ink cartridge if you don't return it. But people will get mad about being automatically charged something unless they signed up for it first so it would have to be an option.
Or how about this, they actually charge what the ink cartridge is worth (real price, not padded price), and it is yours? If you cancel a magazine subscription, you don't lose the ability to read the magazine. If you cancel a "beer of the month" club membership, the alcohol in the beer you've already been shipped doesn't drop to 0%.
@@MonkeyJedi99 then you would just be buying the ink cartridge at full price which you already can do. That’s the point. You can just go out and buy ink cartridges. If you don’t want to buy all the ink at once, you use this program. It’s dumb but that’s what it is. Now if they just charged you for the remaining ink if you cancel the subscription, that would be a different story and make more sense in the long run. Still a dumb program though
@@MonkeyJedi99 ya, it's insanely marked up. Buy a tank printer. I have an Epson ecotank. It's fantastic! I think an outside upstart is going to show up in dramatically dropped the price of printing. They'll have to jump real hard to keep pace with it.
Exactly what i did. Who the fuck prints in colour these days anyway and i doubt many are printing photos like we all used to. I paid £60 for my Brother Laserjet about 4 years ago, however much for generic toners and have not worried about ink since.
My father cancelled his credit card that had the subscription on it and told nobody, as the tech guy of the family coming home from college and hearing that my mom who usually has no issues with the printer being unable to print was worrying. And I don't blame her, you have to do some moderate digging to figure out what happened since the website HP tells you to go for trouble shooting is just the sign up page for instant ink
This service reminds me of a professional copier rental service but on a really small scale. If you temporarily need a high output copier/printer machine you can rent a machine and they charge your for time/pages printed. They deliver the machine with toner and provide replacement toner as necessary and take back the machine once the terms are up. This is probably the only practical way to do this on such a small scale.
I'm curious to see when the first printer manufacturer will come up with the idea of offering inexpensive color cartridges in a monthly subscription and, in return for the low price, place their advertising on every printout. These companies obviously don't seem to lack crazy ideas.
You don't pay for the ink, you pay for a certain amount of prints. Nobody forces you to order new ink. And come one, the amount of e-waste generated by a non depleted ink cartridge like this is negligible. Shitty business model, but at least is transparent
@@pinorino913 So you're saying that if I cancel subscription before using up all my prints, I still will be able to print, then? Or will I not get even the _prints_ I paid for?
@@MrCh0o if you cancel your data subscription before using all of your Gigs, can you still use them? again, it's not something i like, but it's not pure evil like other practices
Was just dealing with this last week when my ink ran out yeah, they automatically sent me a new cartridge, but it doesn’t arrive for 5 days so a lot of good that does me.
Then something's gone wrong somewhere. The whole point is that the new cartridge is meant to arrive *before* you need it. Did you suddenly do a massive print run that used up all your available ink?
It is a business model. I worked for hp when this program started up. It was piloted in the USA, and after that it was piloted in the UK, I supported the UK, after that the rest of Europe. It counts the printed pages. Yes it is cheaper, if you print full size color photos. However, a single dot printed on a page, is a printed page. So you need to be careful with what you print. They do indeed provide an envelope to send back used up ink cartridges. But what really bothers me, when they send you a new set of ink cartridges, and you aren't home during the delivery, it will be send the to nearest post office. If you don't collect it within 2 weeks, it is NOT send back to hp, instead the cartridges will be destroyed. Because sending it back to HP is to expensive. Ink is the liquid gold for HP. I'm sure for printer manufacturers, ink is for all of them liquid gold.
So what happens if you try to print more than the tier allows per month? Did it have rollover pages, a hard limit to the number of pages, or a prompt to purchase a higher tier?
@@beckoningjinx1119 You get rollover pages. When you run out of pages, you get charged per page. You get lots of warnings before and when you go over. You can just upgrade to the next tier to not pay the per page charge, then downgrade instantly so you only pay one month. The system is about as non-abusive as it gets.
when i need to make the decision on which printer i need to buy, im getting a refillable one. end of story. Also thank you for shining light on this subject, Louis, I will never buy any HP products from now on, and I will encourage my friends and family to do the same. This is some of the most anti consumer behavior I have ever been shown.
@@Blackjack701AD you seem to misunderstand what fascism is. One component of fascism is controlling industry/production/business practices etc. So it would actually be considered fascist if the government took over HP and started running the show. Instead what is happening is the government is allowing people to take their grievances to court and ultimately siding with the consumers to protect them and the environment. Ultimately this is giving the consumers the ability to determine whether a company's practices fail or succeed Instead of only allowing a centralized authority to make all the decisions. I just don't see how that's fascist. I'm willing to have a civil discussion about your ideas and thoughts as to why you think this may or may not be fascist however.
I work at a place that sells these printers with the printing subscription service. We don't mention Instant Ink and if anybody ever asks about it, we politely but firmly warn them about this limitation. HP is greedier than most
I use to work for a cable company and we'd get people subscribed to channel packages they never watched. That's the problem with subscription services, you need to know what you need and adjust accordingly. If managed by someone who's smart, it will be cheaper.
I am a HP Ink subscriber, using the 5 $, 100 pages/month plan for home/personal use (no company). Advantages as off October 2021 (HP might change some of the rules later on), are: 1. The price, yes 5 dollars/month for 100 pages is pretty good, considering each original cartridge cost is 10-15 $ for standard (100 pages) and 20-25 $ for XL (200 pages) ones, and you have to double that because it uses two cartridges, one b&w and one color. 2. When the current cartridges are empty enough, they just ship the new cartridges to you. You don't have to go to a store, they just get delivered. 3. If you don't use all the included number of pages per plan, the remaining pages will get transferred to the following month, but no more than three months. All of this is from my perspective as a user of a small, multifunction, ink printer. The disadvantage of course is paying for the ink, and not being able to use it, once the subscription runs out. Not being able to use hardware that you paid for, just because you're not a member of some subscription, it's one of the lowest, most despicable business model, a company could pull on it's users.
1. This reasoning is based on the price of the original cartridge, which is already overpriced. Somehow, it makes the new subscription model attractive only because the usual model (proprietary cartridge) was already a scam. 3. Same, "how nice of them to transfer the unused prints to the following month", let's not forget the captive model in the first place. 2. Probably the only real advantage: peace of mind. Then it's just a matter of seeing if this service is worth the extra money. And I'd argue the concept of automatically getting supplies is not so new, there were third party companies doing this for a long time (including paper). What's new here is that HP is applying this concept for small printers (for individuals), and that it's locking the system to be the only possible supplier.
Yeah, I'm not trying to convince anyone about this business model being the perfect way, because honestly, it isn't. I'm just saying from my point of view. Basically 5 dollars is the transport fee to have something delivered to your home, here in Romania. Also, in my case, the printer is still on it's waranty period and I don't want to lose that by using third party ink/cartridges. There are many pro's and con's about this sure, but for me, until now, it's not that bad of a deal.
I’d install “Little Snitch” and see what other information is being sent to HP. That’ or see if you can come across a software engineer/tech that can see what privacy issues may be being breached.
I'm not a Mac guy, but doesn't little snitch monitor the programs that attempt to communicate on the Mac itself? I'm pretty sure the printer would need to be connected directly to the internet for that ink program to work so it would completely bypass Little snitch.
i personally use an epson ecotank. it has ink tanks and do not use cartridges. the printer came with ink about 4 years ago, now the tanks are half full. i am not sure if the printer will die before it runs out of ink the first time, but if it runs out i can buy refills and fill the tank again. there is no digital ink meter instead the tanks are translucent so you see how much is in them. to be honest this is the most honest printer i have seen.
Fun fact: I think original HP ink is one of the most expensive fluids in the world and even beats Chanel No. 5 if I remember it correctly- although this is a different topic. Regarding the software-limitation: Tesla does the same with the battery capacity: you will get the same hardware capacity regardless of the battery size you choose. The actual usable capacity is controlled by software.
If you measure how many ml of ink are in a cartridge and put the full price of the cartridge towards that and calculate it to a liter, or gallon, it is indeed very very expensive. But of course it's not fair to calculate it that way.
Not really, things like one doze of Zongelsma (a medicine for muscular atrophy developed by Novo Nordisk) is worth more than two million dollars and it's maybe a couple mililiters. But yeah, ml by ml, printer ink is very expensive when compared to most stuff.
I'm so glad I bought a cartridgeless inkjet, the bottles cost the same has a set of cartridges, and last me literal years. This printer ever breaks I'll pay out the nose to get it fixed
I owned a Brother printer for over 12 years that I had modded with external reservoirs, to avoid purchasing expensive ink cartridges. When it finally died, I researched and bought a Canon "Pixma G5050" bulk reservoir printer, to avoid the expense of disposable ink cartridges. This approach is significantly less expensive per page...cheaper than laser and Much less expensive that any cartridge printer. However, as it has no scanner, I made a simple scan box out of cardboard box and use that to quickly scan documents using a scanner app on my phone. It's actually much more efficient than scanning with the home office printer.
It does feel weird at first. I think the reason they do it that way is so people don’t get the $1 I k cartridge the cancel as soon as they get it. Whether you actually save money is dependent on what you print, and how much you print. If you print pictures, they take a ton of ink, and you’ll save a boat load of money. If you print tons of pages with hardly any ink you would spend more money with the program. Look at the page yield on the standard and XL cartridges, divide the price by that many pages a d you get the cost per page. Keep in mind, that is an estimate. It is based on a stand I can’t remember the name of, but it’s equal to printing a solid square on each page roughly like an 1.5 X 1.5 inches. So, if you print flyers, pictures, greeting cards, and other stuff with a lot of ink on them, you can expect to get WAY less than the claimed page yield. In those cases, you’d definitely save money with that program.
I liked this post twice because you're right...and you get it. Still, for my clients I recommend anything but HP unless it's a big professional printing shop. Not worth the headache.
i haven't used an inkjet printer at home or work for years because of the ink-based 'business model'. they practically give the cheap, plastic 'printer' away, then gouge on the ink. laser printers are still made that have generic toners. if you print a lot, it'll be worth the upfront expense and laser toner tends to last a long time compared to an inkjet.
HP’s latest firmware updates to my M477 color laser jet printer don’t allow the use of aftermarket toner Cartridges even if you change out the electronic chip that’s on each cartridge with the proper one. Check out my post here, it’s about 10 or 15 posts up from this one.
Hey Louis, hope you see this comment. I'm in the signage industry, and the printer I use to print most of my signage and other promotional goods for customers is a HP Latex wide format printer. These printers are EXTREMELY robust and reliable. As these are commercial equipment, they seem to get much better treatment from big companies like HP, Epson, Mimaki and the like. Parts are available nearly a decade after the machines are made and through reseller networks, any part that is currently being made can be bought if you're willing to do the work yourself. (Most machines have service contracts that cover their lifetime, typically 60 months which covers parts and labour. Warranty can be voided if you work on it yourself during the warranty period though, but considering the fact that pretty much the whole machine is covered, no one bothers to waste time tinkering with it until the warranty ends.) It's funny to me that the regular consumer gets the arse end of EVERYTHING nowadays. Interested to hear your thoughts on this. Greetings from Down Under. :D
This happened to me and my HP printer and I was THIS close to going Office Space on it. In my case my printer lost its connection to my Instant Ink account and no matter what I tried I couldn’t reconnect it. I cancelled the Instant Ink subscription immediately. I initially thought it would be a great way to save money….
I recently bought a Alaska Airlines plane ticket, it cost as much as a normal ticket and it looked like a normal ticket. When I tried to fly home Alaska told me there might be room for me on the plane that I would get a seat only if some people didn't show up and I might have to wait for the midnight plane or tomorrow afternoon's plane. This is a problem when you have to work the next day, I could have gotten a Delta plane ticket but buying a new ticket would have cost 3 to 4 times what I paid for the original ticket. Its not just printers I'm seeing a lot of things where you pay enough to buy it but the business treats you like a renter. I think the government needs to update consumer protection laws but I don't think they will because when was the last time the government did something for the people? the government listens to the big donors and only the big donors.
This is like the John Deere tractors that don't work unless the manufacturer waves its magic wand. No wonder why older tractors are in such high demand, it will probably be the same with modern printers.
Before Covid I was traveling 6 months out of the year. My HP Printer wasn't used during that time. I was being charged for the ink plan but never used very many cartridges. Finally after 3 years I cancelled and did pay as I go. I never really wanted to use the program but needed tech support. The printer was under warrantee and I got very good support. At the end of the tech session the girl talked me into taking the subscription plan.. The phone room is in the Philippines and Philippine girls can be very persuasive. She even said God bless you, when we said goodbye.
I really hate printing anything at all because of the "can't print because one ink cartridge is empty." Oreo and Mr. Clinton will be back more often. It was definitely a real treat to see both of them relaxing with you.
I had this issue with a printer I bought for my parents. I thought the subscription seemed like a great way to save money so I immediately signed up to it. What I didn't know was it literally LOCKS OUT the carts it comes with in the box, so we had a huge paperweight for days until it finally arrived. What a waste.
Considering that for HP ink, it has always felt like there was a timer in the cartridge that stopped printing after certain threshold was reached, I think it’s an improvement that now they are completely transparent with the users as to how they are fucking them over. Still, $.99 a month or whatever it was is a vast improvement to $70 for some ink cartridges that stop working after three months no matter how few pages you print. I will never use HP printers again, but it’s nice they’re giving people the option
I happened to buy an HP printer right before pandemic. When everyone was stuck at the house. We all need to print stuff for schools and work quite often. So the ink subscription helped us because we use enough to justify the cost. But if HP starts doing that you cannot scan without ink thing. It will become a problem. And I might just start using a scanning app instead of using the printer. I can’t imagine what else they can disable just because we didn’t want to use it the way they want to. They might disable it just for printing pictures or art print that they might deem copyrighted or inappropriate.
Although I support right to repair, and also totally agree to your point of view about Canon scanner/printer thing. I do agree to this business model of HP. The model says you pay $X for 50 pages. It doesn't say how much ink you can use. You can print a completely black 50 pages which will consume the whole cartridge and HP has to replace it for you within the subscription period/page count. On the same basis, if the subscription expires, the ink left there is not yours. Also the printer won't talk to cartridge, it will read its details/serial number and communicate to a web API to validate the subscription. You agreed to that type of communication when you subscribed to the service, you were happy about them automatically sending you new ink, then you are not happy when they deny your access to the ink based on the same business model. You should take the whole package or leave it, can't be picky about it.
This is a tough one. I am against the fact that they can disable you from printing if you have printed your allotment. I actually have an HP and this subscription service. The reason I bought it was because it makes no sense to pay $30+ for ink cartridges if I am only printing a few page a month so the subscription makes sense. On the other hand, if you print heavily then it's a different story but I hate the limit where it will stop printing based on your subscription.
Hey Louis! I hope this comment finds you well. I am a tech supervisor at staples and sell printers almost every day. And I nust admit the hp instant ink is a total scam for some people. Like you said if you barely print at all it may be right for you, however there is another issue I would like to touch base on. So first off I always tell the customer up front what instant ink is and does and what kind of problems they may run into if it's not a right fit for them. When you sign up for instant ink they allow you to select those packages however what they don't quite tell you is that when you don't use the ink for a month they will still charge you and not send more cartridges. That's the problem with the printer talking to the cartridges to determine whether your payment warrants you a product. It's an awful business practice. I've been converting people to brother black and white laser jets for quite some time now.
The whole ink BS is why the few printouts I need get done by emailing them in PDF format to the nearest Office Depot instead of my all-in-one-printer that is currently out of cyan ink. It started when I set the printer to print in greyscale, but the printer still won't work even though the black cartridge is brand new and completely full....
I accidentally discovered that you can disable the shut down thing. I am technically out of all colors (though I've never used them, ever) and can still print in black.
That is hilarious. Thank you for the laugh. This is why i never give a damn about inkjet in general. I got a b/w laser printer and i didn't replace the toner cartridge since 5 years or so. Why people still feed the inkjet industry you ask? Too much money to waste. You cannot stop it and you can only laugh at them from the distance, or not, people use and pay for whatever works for them.
I've got this and it works well enough for me. I don't miss the monthly payment, and I've always got plenty of ink on hand to do a print job. Printer companies have always made most profit from selling ink, not the printer.
While the "Instant ink" service is not something I would use (I hate paying for something every month, especially if I am not using it that month), it kind-of makes sense. HP would not want the customer to get the cheapest plan, get the cartridge and then cancel the plan, but keep the cartridge. Then do this again, once the cartridge runs out of ink. With that service you are renting the ink, not buying it, so whatever. A device refusing to scan if it's out of ink - now that is inexcusable and I am glad Canon got sued over it.
@@superslimanoniem4712 That would still allow abuse (you'd still get "almost free" ink every 6 months) and would prevent legitimate cancellations ("I'm going away on vacation for a month, won't be printing anything").
In my case as a freelancer who has customers that insist on printed copies of reports I build for them, this plan would make sense. I know I'm always going to be using ink every month, so if I bought whatever plan I would need for the amount of ink I use, it probably would be cheaper for me to go the subscription route. For most users not printing regularly though, it wouldn't make sense. I have an Epson Workforce printer, so it's really academic, but you never know if they might start following HP's lead...
I bought an older Epson Workforce WF-7710 inkjet printer. Found hacked firmware online. Bought and installed. Printer never shows less than full cartridges and never complains about the refillable cartridges that are installed. I have to open the top of the printer occasionally to look at ink levels and add ink, but in total this is a wonderful experience, knowing I never have to worry about cartridge replacement ever again.
0:59 newer HP Laser printers will permanently brick if you put someone else's toner into them, unless you have one where the firmware precedes that and prevent from updating.
I'm using the program. But I was grandfathered to keep my free program that cost 0$ for 15 pages a month. I'm fine with a useless printer if I cancel since nowadays ink cartridges cost almost the same price as a new printer sometimes...
here in the UK the subscription is free for under 15 pages per month and £1.99 for up to 50. I am a very light user so I pay nothing for my ink and I use the 15 pages purely to print high quality photographs. Now the cartridge is massive and can do something like 5000 pages (don't quote me on that), it's insanely good value and if I stop use it, I can understand them stopping me using it further. The fact ink costs as much as it does in the first place is the real issue that needs to be discussed.
It’s called “products as a service” and it’s being promoted as the future business model by the World Economic Forum. Luis wants to tango but doesn’t even know who he’s dancing with. It is by design.
It's bullshit, and we can't keep going along with it. Fact of the matter is, patents have expired on a lot of printing technologies - we can build our own damn printers if need be. Same deal with everything else. There're people who have built their own bloody microchips, solo (though admittedly using off-the-shelf raw materials), in their garages/homes (check out Sam Zeloof's channel if you don't believe me) so it's definitely possible. There are plenty of people who have the know-how to design and build things (like me, to some extent - and I'm getting better on the daily), and who are also sick of this shit. There's nothing stopping us from getting together and deciding to build these things for ourselves, our friends, and our families - instead of buying from these disgusting, morally-bereft, corrupt, greedy, planet-trashing, inequality-promoting corporations.
It's a bit surprising that people care to support an inherently untrustworthy partner, who is interested in their money first and foremost, by accepting the premise that not owning something that they pay for, but leasing it instead, is somehow better for them. Sure, it might be better while terms are convenient for both sides, which is either not true from the start or doesn't last long, because one side always wants more by default. Not only that, but the sudo-contract which they enter by _simply buying_ a product is often obscured (looking at Canon and their scanner-printer combo). I guess it can't be helped that capitalism strives through one side abusing the lack of knowledge (I would say "or of options", but it's ultimately the same thing) of the other side, eh
This has been a thing for photocopiers and printers in businesses for forever. Although at the end of the rental or “subscription” the copier/printer rental company will take the copier and printer away. I guess this is specific to just the ink rather than the whole device, but that’s up to the consumer if they think it’s better to “rent” ink rather than buy it outright. Typically in the business side the copier/printer will send the numbers to the rental place for billing purposes. (How many pages and if it was colour or black). Something like 5-10 cents per page.
So we sell this at my job, and the way it's explained to us to explain to customers is that it's a subscription, not a product. If you stop paying for Netflix, you don't get to keep using Netflix (except you do until the month is up, but whatever). It does actually save you money though, because the average person with a dual-cartrige printer prints 100 or so pages a month, buys 2-3 cartridge sets a year, and $60 ($5 a month for 100 pages a month) over the course of a year is way better than $180+ ($60 a set on average). That being said not being able to use the cartridges after the subscription ends is kinda BS, but it's definitely a huge savings provided you don't print only in huge bursts. I don't force it on people, and I normally suggest lasers instead (at least when we have them nowadays), but it's not a bad deal at the end of the day, provided you aren't planning on cancelling it.
I recently subscribed to this HP Instant Ink service after buying a cheap second-hand printer. As a person who prints very rarely, the 0.99/month plan really does save me quite a bit of money, since at the rate I print stuff my ink cartridges would probably dry up before I use them up fully. While I do agree that it feels strange for the ink to stop working if I cancel my subscription, I think it's necessary to prevent people from exploiting the system by just canceling their subscription and keeping the ink. Of all the ways that companies these days are trying to undermine our ownership of products, I think this is one of the least egregious and actually benefits certain consumers like me. Will definitely be concerning if it goes too far though.
@@Skenjin Well no, I didn't pay for all of the ink, I paid for just enough ink to print 15 pages each month - the subscription is priced cheaply because of that. If I were able to keep all of the ink after paying just 99c for a one-month subscription, I would consider that an exploit.
@@Skenjin your basically paying for a rental. 99 cents a month would take many months to actually pay for the cartridge. If you sub for one month then immediately cancel, the manufacturer loses a ton of money
I took this deal, thinking I could end it whenever I wanted. My debit card expired (and forgot to update with new details) and they blocked the printer from working. The printer didn’t say “you can’t use the ink, but more to continue… “ just a message saying the printer was blocked. Updating my details so they can take my £2 a month got it working again. The good news is I told around 25 people this and even heard a few of them repeating this issue to others. That’s a lot of people that won’t buy HP in the future. I bought a secondhand laser printer for £25 and the toner lasts 2,500 pages for £10.
@@Automedon2 sounds a lot more like "i had the subscription cartridge inside the printer and my subscription obviously run out so i cant use these cartridges anymore but i try to make it seem like HP is evil"
@@Automedon2 BECAUSE YOU DIDNT PAY FOR THE INK!!!!!!!!! How is it that hard to grasp.. you pay for a subscription of PRINTABLE PAGES, the ink isnt what you pay for, but the printed pages at the end just like you pay for channels to watch in a Cable TV subscription. The ink is in this analogy nothing more then a cable TV box the Box is just there to ensure you get the service while the sub is active, after it runs out it stops, just that in the case of a table TV box you aer required ot send it back as they can reuse the box almost imidiatly. People who think they can pay 2$ for a ink cartridge then cancel(or legitimatly let it run out by acident etc) and keep not only the cartridge(which they can tbf) but also continue to use it are dilusional
Louis, I applaud you for your "free speech" on how HP printers are crap! I have a 10 year old HP printer ( HP 8620) that has been a workhorse for years. I was a subscriber to Instant Ink for years and really didn't have a problem until recently when I fell into the trap of upgrading to a NEW HP printer with the guise of providing you a NEW warranty and Instant Ink at a "said" price point. In my mind, I had the belief that a NEW HP printer would be the solution for me, I mean after all . . . "newer" is always "better, right! I received the HP 9129e and set it up for the first time. This printer was to be an "upgrade" to my old printer. I quickly observed many flaws with both "hardware and software" with the new printer. The build quality was extremely sub standard in the paper tray and every time that I printed something on a different size of paper, the printer would tell me there is a "mismatch" in paper size . . . ! My old HP printer never asked me that! I would put 4X6 photo paper into it, go into Photoshop and hit PRINT! It just worked. I am not a high anxiety person usually, but I could not box the new printer back up quickly enough to get it out of my house. It was that bad! Here's the final straw with HP! : I canceled my old Instant Ink subscription when I purchased the new HP printer because I wasn't about to pay "double" on the Instant Ink. I had just installed new cartridges FULL of ink, and just last night I get a message on my HP printer, that said something about my subscription being canceled and then my INK LEVELS all went to ZERO! I immediately called HP and they said that I MUST go out to a retail store and purchase NEW ink cartridges in order to keep my 10 year old printer functional! I am going to get onto the CLASS ACTION lawsuit as quickly as I can, and hopefully get some sort of retribution! Again, I applaud you for speaking your mind on this topic, and MORE people need to know. Gas prices are nothing when compared to an "ounce" of printer ink! It unjust and needs to be stopped!
VERY IMPORTANT: PLEASE UPVOTE SO LOUIS SEES IT: Cats that don't jump 3 feet with very high probability have one of: arthritis, leg, paw pad or spinal injuries, sprains, wounds, hip dysplasia, diabetic neuropathy, eyesight problems, heart disease, fungal infection. Conclusion: Oreo needs to be checked by the VET
@@marcfuchs6938 Probably something of the like :/ + U gotta scroll to get to it, even if a lil bit the amount of people that see it drops significantly.
My last inkjet was an hp c310a. Dumped it after getting a cartridge that I got ONE use out of. Never again. Got a Fuji xerox laser. Pretty happy with it.
This makes me wonder how these cartridges differ from each other. Time for some hackiing!? ;-) The subscription model isn't too bad I think. Disabling InstantInk-Cartridges may be the only way they have found to prevent people from cheating.
Or, they could charge a price for their subscription that doesn't put them in the poor house? I can't keep a straight face after that. Of COURSE they're making mad money.
They are like Keurig's approved K-cups. They have a sensor that tells the machine it is one of their approved items. I had my subscription expire because I forgot to update my new debit card. I also tried to use a regular cartridge while it was active and it said that I was using non-instaink cartridges and that they would not be able to supply me with refills when it runs out. So all they did was add a little code that communicates the same way the ink levels do and this pings the HP software on PC to verify that you are using the right cartridges.
@@johncarlaw8633 you can print over the 100 pages but they charge an extra $1 for 10 pages, the pages do roll over for two months tho, so if you don't use the printer for a month you can print 200 pages the following month, You actually get bigger cartridges than the XLs bought from the shop, I presume to cut down on postage costs Honestly it's a pretty good service.
@@thechosenjuan7920 It might seem fine. Until everything you "own" requires a subscription fee... if this continues, your toaster and your oven won't turn on without a subscription, even if they're powered; your laptop won't turn on without a subscription; your microwave won't run without a subscription; your electric toothbrush will refuse to work unless you pay the subscription; your phone will brick itself permanently and you'll have to buy a new one unless you pay the subscription; your furnace won't provide heat unless you pay the subscription; and your thermostat won't tell the furnace it needs to turn on unless you pay the subscription. More and more things will require a subscription until you have nothing left at the end of the month, and you can't save any money for your future or for retirement. And then they'll raise the prices, or something else will suddenly require a subscription, and you'll have to decide between continuing to use whatever it is or continuing to eat. They will ask more and more and more of you until you can't afford to do all of the things you can now, because everything requires an ongoing expenditure. There'll be no more "buy it once and it's yours", the moment you fall on hard times and can't pay the subscriptions, nothing will work. And then one day, it'll be -40 outside and your furnace subscription will expire, so it'll start getting colder and colder inside... then you'll go to open your front door and find that your lock subscription has expired, so you can't leave and go to a neighbor's or a family member's. Unfortunately, you put smart security bars on your windows, because you got broken into once... and the subscription on those expired too, so they won't open. You didn't think it was such a big deal at the time, because why would you need to exit through the window? You don't have any money left in the account until payday - only a couple of days away - so you can't pay the subscription fees even if you want to, either. Two weeks later, they'll find you and your family frozen to death inside your own home, even though the power and gas were still hooked up and working. Murdered by the devices you "owned", inside your own home, because of the greedy corporations' desire for profit. Or it'll be a more pedestrian -30 and you'll be driving on a country road, heading to a family reunion at your brother's rural home for Christmas. Nobody else is driving out here - it's a remote road, and on a holiday no less. You notice there's no cell service out here, but that's fine - you just keep going, because you'll be out of the deadzone soon. You're only 30km away from your destination, and your car suddenly shuts off and powers down - "please pay your vehicle operation subscription fee". There's no one around, and you can't call for help because there's still no cell service. You don't really have a choice, so you start heading off across the nearby field to find somewhere with a phone or some heat. You start noticing that the cold in your limbs has vanished, replaced by searing heat - a critical sign of frostbite, but you don't know that - so you take your gloves off, trying to cool them down. They go completely numb and your fingers are rapidly turning a disturbing shade of charcoal-black, but by that point you're so tired you don't notice. As the cold keeps working its way into your core, you get sleepy to the point where you decide to lie down in the snow for a little nap. "It'll be fine" you tell yourself, in a hypothermia-addled stupor. They never do find your body. It is already getting to the point where not paying subscription fees has the potential to kill people. Look up the motorcycle airbag suit that won't save you unless your subscription is paid - Louis did a video on it. It might sound like something straight out of some fictional dystopian hellscape, but mark my words - if we don't do something about it, that motorcycle airbag suit will be the rule rather than the exception. We are heading for a capitalist dystopian hellscape of our very own - except this time it's not fiction: this is a very real and deadly serious possibility, in the most literal sense. We should be doing whatever it takes to prevent that. Otherwise before we know it, the body count will start adding up.
I’m very familiar with Instant Ink. It’s good if you print fewer than 500 pages a month. The ink is pretty much unlimited because you aren’t charged per cartridge. It’s the pages you pay for. You can switch to regular cartridges off the shelf at any time. The plans start at 99 cents a month so they’re trying to prevent people from buying ink for 99 cents and then cancelling the plan and restarting when they need another set. The printer will scan and do everything but print if you’re out of ink or if you cancel the subscription. The bottom line is that it saves money but you are essentially renting the cartridges. 50 pages a month for $2.99 comes out to $36 a year for ink. Shipping is included, so it’s not too bad.
this is basically the commercial copier model. It makes good sense when you print thousands of pages a day and they service the machine for you. on an inkjet where many uses might print 5 pages every 4 months, i'm not sure its good value, BUT i don't see an issue with the half full cartridge not being usable if you didn't pay for it. there doesn't seem to be any dishonesty behind it, its just weird for the consumer market.
@Louis Rossmann I thought this should have been quite obvious but since I see no one else saying it so far. If you could just use the printer after your subscription has ended then then that means that all someone has to do to get almost free ink is subscribe for one month and then cancel and the rest of the ink is free. That doesn’t make any business sense now does it? In addition, you don’t have to have a subscription to use the printer either as far as I know because I have an HP instant ink printer (I’m not sure if you were trying to say that). You can just use regular ink cartridges, however, I’m not sure whether they have to be HP cartridges or not. I think customers should be able to use aftermarket cartridges if so desired though.
I am very fed up with hp ink subscription. I don't use up an ink cartridge for 6 months and the moment my cc expires I cannot use my printer because they will not send a cartridge despite having paid monthly
My personal experience with Epson Ink Tank is leaps better vs Lexmark, HP and Cannon previously owned. The Epson printer uses ink tank system, no cartridges. Been 3 years since I filled it and so far no problems with ink levels, nozzle clogs or ink leaks. Also don't need to service printhead frequently and printer lasted the longest out of the bunch. Usage is home use and prints semi regularly. L4160 Series First Printing Date : 2018-07-23 Printing Information Total Number of Pages : 1385 Total Number of B&W Pages : 261 Total Number of Color Pages : 1124 Total Number of 2-Sided Printing Pages : 97 Total Number of 1-Sided Printing Pages : 1288
I haven't tried the program (I happily use a laser printer and will never return to inkjets again), but the idea sounds reasonable enough so long as you know what you're getting. Especially if you don't print much each month. Maybe if they had an option to "buy out" the cartridge when you cancel, that would be better, but I don't have a problem with it as-is. If they made printers where subscription ink is the only way you can use it, that would be a big problem. But as is, if you don't like "renting" cartridges, you can just buy them.
I've printed 4 pages in the past 5 years. 99¢ per month would be $59.40 (not including tax). Going to a print shop was 4$ (and 2$ of that was for them printing it for me) for 1 visit. So $8 in 5 years vs almost $60.
@@jetah50 So obviously you are not someone who would benefit from this program. Personally i use instant ink when school is in as its cheaper than buying cartridges each semester and the 5$ plan covers me each month.
Honestly, this is probably one of the *few* areas I'm fine with their process. It would be a different matter entirely if a subscription model were the only way to purchase ink but it isn't. Depending on who you are, this could save you a good deal of money versus "owning" your ink cartridge. It's not exactly a big secret that printer ink is not inherently valuable so throwing away a little remaining ink is not a big deal. To me this isn't any worse than oscilloscopes that have tons of physical hardware features baked into the device itself and locked them behind software licenses. It's like, I'm paying for the hardware. I own the hardware, but aren't allowed to use it. That's more of a crime against humanity to me.
I remember when I moved away from home around 4 years ago, I thought that I probably needed my own printer now. I just bought a cheap HP printer, and thought it looked nice as well. Well, the cartridges that came with the printer still show they have half of the content left, but it prints nothing or just faintly green silhouettes of text that I'm supposed to be printing. Then I looked at new cartridges and realized that a single cartridge costs more than what I paid for the printer. Making things worse, I have barely used that thing and it no longer takes in paper properly for some god forsaken reason. If I never need to print something, I'll just get a new printer, and preferably something that isn't this insane about ink. People talk a lot of good about laser printers, so I might have to look into those.
honestly, if you dont need to print very often try to look into getting a used printer and buy aftermarket cartiges so you can save some cash, or if you have a local library that will liet you print for a small fee you could try that if you dont need to print very often
Depending on your actual printing needs, best to just go to some local printing place and do it there sometimes. If you print like a couple of dozen pages a year, a printer makes no sense.
@@yannrampitsch6678 Yeah, I have a library really close to me, so I could do printing there, or just visit my mom and print there, or at friend's place. Hell, even when I occasionally have a job, my workplace has usually allowed me to print different things. I do use the scanner feature on my printer relatively often, and I'm intending to digitize/scan a ton of old family photos, and I have also been intending to print some photographs for myself and for a friend (even bought proper photograph paper, but then I realized my inks had dried out, so I printed my friend's photos in a photo store, which was still cheaper than new ink and probably better quality as well). I have also been wanting to print some game covers for some games in my collection that have missing covers or ripped covers. I actually did manage to print two front and back covers before my ink dried out, and they are good enough for me even with incorrect type of paper. So yeah, I would like to have a functional printer at home, even though I might not use that function too often. I think it's useful to have one at home for your own use. So I'm pretty sure that if I need or want to start printing more at some point, I'll probably look for something actually good, or a used alternative if cheap aftermarket cartridges are available for that.
You obviously have the best and warmest lap that a cat could ask for.
"You'll own nothing and be happy"...
What happened to owning the stuff that you buy? When you buy something, you should own it. I think that's pretty simple.
You will own nothing, and you will be happy.
-The Great Reset
Oooohhh, you want to OWN the stuff you pay YOUR money on? How preposterous, don't you know that these corporations NEED to make money in order to survive? Foolish, greedy consumers.
@@Incubansoul official printer of The Great Reset.
Fancy bumping into you. 👍 Oddly enough, no YT notifications, so a great reminder to catch up on your content. 💪😉
You still do own the things you buy from software to devices.
how very sustainable and environmentally friendly of them. bound to bring in a lot of good publicity.
I mean its a trade off reason printers are so cheap is because they know they will make up on the ink. Hence refillable printers are expensive. They aren't taking a loss in order to recoup later on. I have a an Epson that set me back $450 but its refillable. Those are more sustainable since they are better built and refillable.
@@craigman7262 unless you fill up the ink tank
@@triadwarfare Can’t do that either with some of them, some don’t actually have any ink empty sensor and so assume empty and force change after some metric has passed(estimated ink used, age, pages print etc).
Not to mention the default cartridge protection bs during pc software package installation, or the fact that in my hp printer, if you take printheads out or worse, even dare to unlock and re-lock them in, not even taking them out, there is nothing you can do, it will not print.
HP is doing this to increase profit, not to be environmentally friendly. They want control over your property. It's flat out wrong.
The ink being deactivated feels like the thin end of the wedge. This instance seems genuinely harmless, but it's a model that could (will) become very atrocious very fast.
Yes. The fact that this works means they can just turn off cartridges whenever they want. Or just stop allowing certain printers to work at no cost to themselves.
@@jamesclarkson156 Technically the cartridges are part of the subscription, it's not like they lock up the printer if you try to use third party ink
@@jamesclarkson156 It can be used politically as well. Printing fliers big brother doesn't want you to print? We shut down your printer. It sounds like a bad joke sadly.
This model is copied from industrial printers. I work in industry where packaging is printed with ie. best before date. Such machines have had rfid's in their ink and makeup cartridges for something like 10 years. They have expiry dates coded in them and and there's counters like your cartridge will be rejected if you insert same cartridge more than three times, so you can't fill or change them between printers. Yes, it's big middle finger for owners and yeah, they're priced pretty steeply obviously.
@@flamingkittyumad Actually having those features means that there's rfid or something that makes cartridge detectable, meaning that 3rd party stuff can be very easily blocked if wanted. This does happen on industrial machines.
I have an HP printer that I use as a scanner. It’s one of the old ones, so it still has that weird feature where you can scan without ink. Why would anyone scan without ink?! You have to have ink to absorb the colors from the paper and put them on the USB port!!!
@LabRat Knatz i remember that when i was at college in 2016-2018, one time when i was using one of the computers, the screen suddenly went pink (i think either i adjusted the display when it happened, or someone else did something which caused it to happen)
athough this did not result in IT having to come over, as i knew it was a loose VGA cable
@LabRat Knatz My mom was embarrassed when you did that. She came home all distraught and upset because a tech had laughed at her....Unfortunately she has passed and never got a real apology for your behavior....
@@walterwhite2270 Dude he didn't laugh at your fuckn mom and besides if she was that butt hurt about making a small mistake it's probably for the best she's not around anymore
You had me in the first half, ngl.
@LabRat Knatz30+ years in IT has only taught me to not automatically dismiss outlandish stories about retail. Clients have often been super weird since I can remember, and that's 1990.
Several years ago HP was busted for sending "updates" to printers that bricked the print head in order for you to buy a new print head. I had one. So, I bought a Kodak printer and they did the same thing. So, now I have a "dumb" Brother all-in-one laser printer with no access to the internet and haven't had one issue.
I have one of those Brother printers as well. Those things are bulletproof. The last thing it was used for was for paperwork for a major retailer.
@@Lostcontroller I still have my Brother Fax machine from the 90's that took a roll of "paper". I don't think I would ever buy another brand and will never buy anything that connects to the internet anymore. lol Just the computer and phone. Because if a company ever bricked my coffee maker I'd be out for blood.
@@TechRIP Buy a French Press for your coffee making needs. You will never have to experience a manufacturer telling you that you can't own your coffee maker ever again.
@@TechRIP FYI: Theoretically, HP could still access them from an internet connected computer via USB.
@@Lostcontroller lmao
❤ Thank you for the video. Just experienced this recently at a critical time I needed to print. 🗣WILL NEVER, EVER BUY ANYTHING FROM HP AGAIN!!!!!
I concur. For years HP offered excellent printers and I never bought from any other company but this new policy is so offensive that I might never buy from them again.
IF they reverse this disgusting practice I MIGHT consider buying from HP again in the future.
This is happening to me right now, It's frustrating.
Ever!!!!
Louis has figured out that doubling the cat content will more than double the views.
Exactly why i clicked - 2 armrest kitties today, 1 on each side
and double the likes
There's gonna be a day Louis discovers he get rid of the middleman altogether and just have a cat cam with commentary.
Double catting. Both feline barrels blazing.
@@MhnFive
_“Clowns to the Left of You, Jokers to the Right”_
ruclips.net/video/G0wgG_HYov8/видео.html
It is, what it is, but I have no clue why this was the first thing I thought about. You are probably correct though. RUclips is not human and is very strange.
Somebody should create an “open-source” printer - something in style of Framework laptop or Fairphone.
surprised no one has. I remember that video that trended a while back about how ink cartridges are a scam (AustinMcConnell made the video) and doesn't really propose a solution at the end of the whole thing. If a 3D printer can be open source, why not a regular printer?
Idk about y'all but my 30 year old hp printer still works fine.
And then nobody would buy it as it would cost 2x as much as a 'normal' printer.
No use. Printing as an activity, and as an industry, is dying. Nobody wants to create an open source solution to a dying problem.
@@TerminalWorld I would pay double myself. Being able to install plug-ins would be amazing, and being able to use third party or refillable ink would recoup the cost.
I just experienced this myself and was very frustrated. What makes it worse is that it seems every company is using, or going to, a subscription model, making it almost impossible to tell them they are wrong by taking my business elsewhere. Keep fighting the good fight Louis!!!
Not surprised by this. I was living in Asia and bought an HP Laser printer. when I relocated to Europe I wanted to take the printer with me and checked if they had the same model in Europe since I would need to buy toner cartridges. Once I was in Europe went to buy tonner cartridges only to realize that HP cartridges can be used only in printers from the same region, meaning the only way for me to use the printer in Europe would be to go to Asia and buy cartridges there. It seems that HP printers are regions restricted. That same day I went to the electronics shop and bought a Brother printer that uses refillable ink. I will never again buy HP printers. We... the consumers do have the power of choice, don’t buy from those companies.
Until all companies start doing the same shit.
You can change the region of the printer but you'd need to call support for that. At least for inkjet printers.
For laserjets I believe it's as simple as an nvram reset or power-cycle.
Rest assured all printer manufacturers region lock their printers.
@@TheEuropeanFox All of them absolutely region lock their printers, whether it's physical differences in the cartridge, or in the circuitry. We had a few customers when I worked at a refiller who had brought printers from overseas. It was interesting.
Xerox's lock is based on country. Not even region
@@TheEuropeanFox why the fuck do you region lock a printer? Its not a game or movie where maybe someone else got a license to some piece of art what was used to create it in that region?
So I actually discovered this a year ago or so after canceling my subscription with ink left over, and the printer utility telling me to restart my subscription. So, I just threw the printer across the room and forgot about it. Then, a few months back I was at a buddy's house who had the same printer and just so happened to be replacing their ink while I was there. So I asked if I could have their empty cartridges which they were going to just throw away and they said yes, because I now had an idea.
After getting home with my empty cartridges I simply swapped the little ribbon cable/chip info/ID thing (sorry the actual name of the part is blanking atm) from the empty cartridges onto my full ones from HP Instant Ink and there we go. After reinserting the old carts. with the "new" ID/Info ribbon cable/chip things it worked perfectly. This is also how ink counterfeiters get their fake carts. or drums to be able to function and be recognizable by the printer.
Now this was of course a lot of effort and a bit of luck stumbling on empty carts. the same model number as what I needed, but was very satisfying to tell that stupid printer to it could get F*&$^ed after I tricked it into printing. Time well spent from where I stand.
The empty cartridges were just normal, non-subscription ones, right? Just clarifying
Also does the swap actually still allow printer to read the amount of ink that's in the cartridge that you "upgraded" that way?
👏🤘✌
You can't do that with Brother. The little chip tab keeps a record of how much ink is used and permanently reports empty when it's done. Refills are impossible. I love the printer I have, but I'm restricted to using only Brother ink. I haven't yet checked if it will scan when the ink is out. Brother also has a discount subscription plan that I haven't checked out yet.
Congrats! You just stole ink
@@MrCh0o Yep. Same cartridge number(s) and they were just locally regular store bought ones my friend was about to throw out when I snagged them.
1987: oil slick in The Raft (by Stephen King) is the more terrifying fluid ever
2021: HP ink beats it
hahahah! Did you prefer the short story or the movie version?
Don't forget that these printer companies are now boldly proclaiming how eco-friendly they are because they are "introducing" refillable ink cartridges (only after they took them away in the first place)
Create a problem and sell a solution!
@@crazydragy4233 that's how everything works unfortunately. See airpods.
@@jonlaw16 Myeah :/
Epson Ecotank. Refillable, cheap original ink, but IT WILL LOCK UP when you reach certain cycle of head cleaning.
@@tokekkk bought one 3 years ago, printed around 3k pages, i only had to refill the blank tank once. what do you mean it will lock up?
If ink manufacturers were honest, the cartridges would be transparent.
Right
But then they'd all print with an alpha of 0, amirite?
If ink manufacturers were honest, ink would cost $2 a cartridge.
@@ScottGrammer you mean 50 cents
I like that pun 👏
“Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.” - Frank Herbert
This is why I keep my Bible and the Unabomber manifesto on my end table
@@johnstamos5948 bible will not help you.
What book is this from?
@@anthonynelson6671 Frank Herbert is the author of the Dune series. Statements like that can be found in most of the books
Groups of primates, humans in this conversation, always fall into hierarchies. Always. Technology or no technology. That's one thing old Ted doesn't seem to get. We've always been that way, always will be....
i heave dealt with this. never buying anything from hp again
My decision on never getting HP was based on their terrible software engineering. I threw away a HP colour laser printer and scanner combo because it wouldn't start up. Tried all the reset procedures but nothing recovered it. It's a common problem as well. They didn't get any toner sales from me as it never lasted long enough to get past the supplied toner cartridge.
It is really stupid to make your customers unhappy, unless you have a Monopoly.
as if other printer companies wont eventually do the same thing?
I used Epsons for years, both with official ink and 3rd party cartridges and had a lot of hassle with them. My last 2 printers have been HPs, mostly with Instant Ink and they've been a lot better
I used to be a HP in store sales rep. I didn't like having to always explain the service to people, but it is not a bad deal. Ink cartridges and printheads tend to clog frequently if you don't use them regularly. If you are not printing much and you get a printer with 2 cartridge system you are getting a new printhead with each cartridge and if one clogs you will always have a backup at home with the service. The only way you will pay more than buying cartridges on the service is if you never print on a regular schedule. The downside is HP can change the price of their service and start charging you more in the future, of course they increase cartridge price every year too.
I can see why HP does this tho. It's to prevent someone from signing up for the cheapo $1 subscription, getting the ink cartrdiges, then immediately cancelling, effectively buying the ink for $1 instead of the $60 or whatever they want. I still find the whole ink business practice absolutely revolting, so I buy knock off toner cartridges for this reason, even if they are problematic.
Thank god someone has a brain and aren't just Rossmann sheep. Nearly everyone in the comments are retards.
My guess would be that you don't get the same amount of ink as the 60$ one that's why there exist bigger more expensive plans.
@@failaip12 *$60 (dollar sign goes to the left)
@@nickspacemonkey "And now a word from HP . . ."
@@failaip12 we've had the service at varying levels for a couple years. The ink cartridges seem to be filled the same amount. Shipping costs are a huge factor in this, so they don't want to be shipping people a new cartridge every month if they can get away with once or twice a year.
HP was once a very fine company which was one of the leading manufacturers of electronic test equipment in the world and essentially invented the pocket scientific calculator. Curse you Carly Fiorina for turning this fine company into a shister purveyor of extremely over priced ink. Epson Ecotank may cost a bit more but to purchase but comes with enough ink to last most people years, and replacement ink is cheap enough that the cost is a non-issue.
This what happens when people don't care about who is in the command on a company and let shifty shareholders take decisions for profit
HP went downhill after 2006
@@superninja252 Amen. I still have multiple 1980s HP 12-C calculators which run perfectly. I still recommended them to everyone.
We used to use HP laser printers exclusively at.my office since the first HP LaserJet. We stopped last year due to the crap quality HP has become.
Also purveyor of shit OEM-label SSDs that perform like USB sticks
Are you talking about agilent and keysight? Or am I outdated and those business have yet new names, because anything successful tries to distance it self as fare away as possible from Hewlett-Packard?
I still got my Epson all-in-one printer from 10 years ago that I bought for $40 and fill with knock-off ink cartridges from Amazon that works perfectly.
I will only buy epson, especially now with the ecotank printers. It's so cheap I still use the epson OEM bottles.
F*ck All of these "great reset" type, rent it but you sorta own it type things. It's such a crock of sh*t.
Got Also an Epson but the damn thing need a cartridge of red ink to work ... Right now can't do bip bip with it !!! It's also a Stylus Photo R1900 Printer so probably going to go with refillable tanks to solve this !!!!
I do the same with my crusty old HP. But the print heads are part of the printer and not the cartridges. So it's a matter of time before she's too clogged to work well
Same here, Epson printer off brand ink. Every now and then one of the carts says it is empty, but I just pull it, shake it, re-install, gtg.
@@volvo09 Epson the older models, kyocera is fine, too. The printers are more expensive than the hp crap, obviously, but you own the printer..
I have this subscription service. My thoughts are this: I use my printer a few times a month. Several weeks can go by without using it. The ink dries up from the dry air and lack of use and I end up blowing money on new cartridges. The service is priced based on how many pages you print. So for me it made sense. It also saves me trips to Staples. However, I don't like the whole disabling thing. You can get around it temporarily. You simply disconnect the printer from the internet BEFORE you cancel. It will never get the updated info then. However, my guess is that there is a built in timer (say 14 days or whatever) when the printer will tell you to reconnect to continue printing.
Base on the printing & cartridge options available and my printing requirement HP instank ink made sense for me aswell. I've watch friends spend hundreds of dollars on ink that dry's up. it costs printer companies cents to make something that cost $60. the Subscription I have cost me $0 a month, only have to pay if I go over 15 pages. They send me new ink(for free don't have to pay for it) everytime it runs low. Since i've switch to this plan i've not gone over my 15 pages per month limit. I've been printing for free for close to 2 years now. I'm okay with them disabling printing on the cartridges because after all that's not what your paying for. I do like they give you the option aswell not to participate and purchase standard cartridges' aswell.
i.imgur.com/DHWsShp.png
This is a perfect example of why you'd want to participate in this program. I completely ditched inkjet printers about a year and a half ago because I was sick of buying ink, using it two or three times over several months, and then finding it has dried up (often when I'm on a deadline to get something printed). I'm curious how this program handles automatic refills for dried up cartridges, though. Do they automatically send you a new cartridge if you've gone too long without printing because they know the old one will not be usable?
The $0/mo plan Whut mentions sounds like an absolute steal! I wouldn't see myself ever going over 15 pages in a month. That honestly feels like it would meet most home users' printing needs. I use a laser printer now, but if I were in the market for a new inkjet printer, signing up for free ink delivered right to my house would be a no brainer. Had I been aware of this program before, I probably wouldn't have even bought the laser printer in the first place.
Perfect example why people should buy laser printers.
Comment in this thread paid for by HP
The problem with the dried up ink cartridges was exactly the reason why I subscribed to that service. However, you don't get any new ink delivery in that case, only when the printer sees your cartridge going empty. So I ended up buying new cartridges myself anyway. Which makes the whole subscription utterly useless. So I canceled it. And had to buy new cartridges AGAIN, because the goddamn system doesn't differenciate between instant ink and self bought cartridges. When you cancel the subscription service, your old cartridges are seen as instant ink ones per default. Even if they were recognized as non-instant ink before! THAT'S the most enfuriating thing about this whole stupid system!!
Had them. When the printer broke, canceled the program, I thought. Realized 6 months later I was still being charge. It took a long frustrating time to not only get it stopped, but a refund. They finally returned 3 months. They said there’s no record of the stop order. I switched to Brother. No more Ink programs.
Brother may offer, but not required the refill program. I do use generic ink. They don’t last as long, but worth the savings.
@@keithbowe784 One can return the empty cartridges. But none of this consumer-as-slave to corporate fascism.
i discovered this a few years ago when my roomate, who lost her debit card frequently, suddenly couldn't print. we owned a printer, it had ink, had paper yet nothing would print. Since she had received a new card she hadn't updated her info, so HP nerfed the printer. I have vowed to never give HP any money ever again and even did a product study for an HP device where I was very vocal that I felt the policies regarding things like this as well as requiring a subscription to receive firmware updates for legacy devices (such as servers) was abhorrent.
To want continual update on hardware for life is a bit insane.
@@comicalhexical to ask for continued updates for outdated hardware is unreasonable. To paywall updates that are being released anyway and at the same time brick/nerf devices that don't receive these updates is criminal. They can paywall the updates without making other versions unusable.
@@comicalhexical not if the updates already exists and you just don't get them because of a stupid subscription. Vital security updates even
You know, I don't get HP at all. Their business line of laptops (ProBook) are top of the line. Very reliable. Very functional. Lots of support. Anything else from them though just seems to suck ass. It's like they're screwing over consumers in order to funnel it all into their business/enterprise sector.
@@blindaceg the comment above didn't state anything about bricking devices/nerfing hardware(at least not for the servers) so I assumed that wasn't an issue. And you just said to ask for continued updates of outdated hardware was unreasonable. So why can't they charge you if you still want updates for hardware that's 10 years old or more?
Imagine being the programmer who's boss tells them to implement this "feature"
"Haha! Funny, people might actually buy that crap if we made it! Oh, you're serious?"
"I was just following orders."
imagine being the programmer that gets paid high 4-digit or even 5-digit sum a month for implementing this "feature"
I sure wouldn't mind being this guy
"Oh sounds nasty. Me like it. Can i make it self destructive printer firmware or leak all rest ink out after subscription ends too?"
XantheFIN lol. No. Can you make subscription permanent? Your printer just automatically reads your credit card numbers and subscribes for ink itself. In order to cancel subscription you need to take printer to HP headquarters in Afghanistan in person where local tribe leader performs exorcism on it.
Honestly feels like the whole ink-printing industry was constructed around a shady business practice. To virtually create a re-occurring demand that doesn't really need to exist. I remember my dad buying a full set of ink during the 90's, only to print a couple of pages, then requiring to "clean" the cartridges (due to them being dried out, due to typical home usage), which ate up a lot of extra ink. In the end a full set allowed for about 40 pages, total. and not the 300 pages + 150 colored pages as advertised. I remember thinking this was evil in my youth... but yeah, this is just next stage of evil. Anyway, later we bought a laser printer in the early 2000s with a cartridge that was supposed to print 1500 pages... he never changed it, has never used all of it. Still uses the same printer to this day.
Razors. Blades.
it wasnt originally
butt became that fast
they even went sfar as paying walmart shitload of $$$$$$ to ust refuse to carry any generic ver
Worse, some printers will perform (on their own) "cleaning" cycles every so often which uses a bunch of ink even if you don't specifically request a print head cleaning. You could install a brand new cartridge and after enough time, you would find the cartridge is now empty from these "cleaning" cycles.
I had similar issues with low ink usage, so I long ago ditched ink and went over to a laser printer, where a printer can sit idle/off for months and still function with no issues.
same here - my "fix" was to shop "backwards" - (1) I switched to a laser printer, I didn't need color and toner doesn't dry out (2) looked up the cheapest toner cartridge then bought the printer it fit. It turned out to be a cheap Brother printer ($90) and used it for over 12 years with no issues. I could let it set unused for months and it would start right up.
As someone who almost never used my scanner or printer (maybe once a year), these new trends in printers are turning me off the idea of even buying a new one if I ever need to replace my current one.
Just buy a laser printer. It's slightly more to start but you should end up paying less in the long run. Or just send your stuff to a print shop if you only need a printer a few times per year.
I'm in a similar boat - I print less than 10 pages per month, but it's nice to have a printer. I think for those people, these printers tend to be the best value.
You can choose to use regular ink (for regular-ink prices) or get the free ink and only be charged by how many pages you print. They had a "free" plan if you printed less than 10-15 pages per month and then $1.00 total for the next 10 pages after that. If you print 10 pages, you pay nothing - if you print 18 that month, you pay $1. The nice thing is they send you free ink (color and black and white) whenever you want. So rather than using the same ink cartridge for 2 years and having it dry up, you can request new (free) ones as needed, and you're only charged based on what you print.
The other benefit is that if you print a lot of photos, you can print 10 full-page color photos with this and it's still only counted as "10 pages". Getting the "free" ink in these cases, where it would normally be used up quickly, is a huge benefit!
Canon printers are still my go to regardless of the stupid scanning debacle. Unlike a lot of the other brands you can find 3rd party cartridges for most if not all of their printers for a fraction of the price of what the name brands will charge you. You can buy 3 full sets of 5 cartridges (15 total) for ten dollars for my printer and the one named in that can't scan without ink lawsuit.
Just get a laser multifunctional device like I dod after my HP PSC 1410 ink one - I hated that one soo much because the printing que was stuck all the time and you could not empty it even after restarting it, took a lot of time to empty its cache. I got a Samsung laser printer and I am happy with it. Too bad Samsung printer division was bought by HP...
@@traewatkins931 I've heard, no idea if it's true, that some cartridges have an expiration date and they're programmed to stop working.
HP Instant Ink is like a Juicero (but the company made a speedrun in failing as fast they could), Imagine connecting a Juicer to a wifi and scanning the juice packages to make sure you're legit to use them. This is the same thing for the HP.
ERROR: YOU CAN USE THIS HP® FRYING PAN™ ONLY WITH REGISTERD HP® FRY OLIVE DELUXXE™ OIL
Use HP stove. And HP spices only.
You are using generic gas to cook. If you don't use HP gas you will lose warranty
ahem. allo? green HP electrons only. flowing thru the certified HP diamond-grade 100% rust-free copper wires. To deliver the very best of customer experience. Because no other party but us cares about the end consumers.
америка и европа, вы ебанулись, честное слово. :/
I guess I'll have to use my other trusty frying pan, as an angry pan
ERROR: PLEASE DRINK VERIFICATION CAN OF MOUNTAIN DEW™
More cats = more views. Simple formula
Best business model ever
oh wow there are 2 videos posted at the same time, and the one with Oreo has 4x the views.
Kitties and titties boys. Also, fuck printers.
So right!
@@skeetorkiftwon double entendre
I made the decision AGES ago to move to a color laser printer (which at the time seemed very frivolous and expensive)... but when you factor in the fact that I don't print very much and have only replaced the toner once since original purchase, it's SO much less expensive than ink jets with the ink that is always out on the rare occasions I want to print (dried up, etc.). It's a bit silly that people who print very rarely are better served by a more expensive printer, but that's the way the cookie crumbles (at least for me). Since working those numbers for myself, I have advocated for most of the people I know getting into color laser instead of ink jet, as their use case parallels mine... most won't be sold, because the upfront cost is so different and the toner replacement is scary expensive... but in the end, with laser, you at least get to use what you pay for.
I’d like to see a printer sold that doesn’t print the unique identifier in yellow ink. The entire printer sector is beyond corrupt.
Which is why you get printers from E waste recyclers or off the side of the road.
yeah i'd love to see the executives be skinned alive and injected with caustic chemicals while they're conscious and have it fcking broadcast nationally.
that was mandated by the US Gov as well as others yrs ago
while it can tie printed material to a printer it cant prove who printed it nor whom owns the printer unless you are a complete idiot
@LunarVVolf no.. thats an unfair assumption and a very foolish one as well. Not everyone in IT is corrupt..
I am not,... Rossman isn't either.. and not all of the companies are either..
but there are a bunch of them that are.. but to say it all is due to the bad ones is very short sighted at the least.
@@kindanyume I, for one, can't think of a company other than Framework that I can look at and say "yeah, those guys really, genuinely care about their customers". All the "we care about our consumers" or "look, we're so eco friendly" rant is the same worn-out corporate script, and I don't buy any of it. Just because their customer service rep is forced to be all nice and bubbly doesn't mean I'm gonna believe all their BS.
I remember once when I had a HP printer to avoid all these HP shit I flashed my printer with a modified firmware and I could even print black and white if the other colors are empty so Im relay grateful to whoever made that firmware
Kinda sad that something like that has to exist but kudos to them from me as well.
I aspire to be the provider of such hacked firmwares in the future to help everyone get around this kind of BS
This is why I stopped buying HP printers. Like others have said here, dimished functionality when one or more colors go out. And 'a long time ago' only HP print carts could be used due to the is same tech in the print cartridge, non HP carts could not be used.
you can remove the color cartridge to continue to print black and white. Its called single cartridge mode, look it up
Yeh. But you shouldn't have to do that
I have HP Instant Ink and yes, when you cancel a subscription or forget to pay they suspend your account and even if you haven't used all your ink from the subscription they will prevent it being used
Just wait until car manufacturers decide to go to the subscription model and decide that your car is no longer eligible to drive, even though you purchased it. Tesla can be dodgy when it comes to used cars.
BMW have already done it. You have to subscribe to use the optional luxury extras like the heating in the seats. Digusting!!!
Trust me there will be an uproar against it not to mention shops being paid just to make the feature available without paying.
@@quicke5486 Sadly, I don't think the sheeple will bleat loud enough for it to matter, especially the millennials. They seem happy to do whatever someone in a power position tells them to do, blindly.
no need to wait, they're already doing it. and i'm NEVER buying a car that does this.
@@grayrabbit2211 GEN Z, not millenials, but that's right.
My Epson office printer requires all colors be available, even if only monochrome black printing is desired. It will allow you to go into a "Permit temporary black printing" mode for a little while, and then it just stops working all together, even if the black cartridge is full! This came with some firmware update as I've never run into that before. I don't think I've been more furious at a company and was close to that one scene from "Office Space"!
I don't think it's any consolation but until last year, my father would get a new HP printer every time the old one broke (we got 3 in a span of 20 years) and all HP printers I have ever seen have always had the issue you are reporting. The only difference would be that HP would just be complaining there's no color ink instead of giving "Permit temporary black printing" option. Before the last printer broke it would be really painful to make it print in black only anyway.
I understand the reason behind of that: BW and color cartridges are on the same head and if 1 color is out the part of the head could become dry and malfunction. But they could mention that in manual and allow me to print because sometimes it is really matters!
The reason is when you print in black it uses all colors with black to make you use more ink.
What sent Stallman over the edge was proprietary printer drivers!
Every HP I ever had worked like that even before they were online.
What my fear is if they are putting out a ink subscription service and they can detect that type of cartridge vs on other OEM. what's stopping them from using whatever chip to detect a non OEM cartridge or refilled cartridge and either prevent it from working or purposely reducing the life of it to make the subscription service artificially seem better.
Funny thing is that you can also buy new business oriented hp printers for about 200 usd in which, among other things, you can disable non OEM cartridge detection and low ink warnings via their own app. They are just more expensive than typical home printer
@@milospavlovic4599 (some?) office pronters also come with lots of troubles like internet connection requirement (doesn't matter if your company LAN isn't connected to WAN - it's your problem now), licensing, double-triple-price cartridges, etc. etc.
I think in the HP instant ink circumstance, HP should give you the option to buy that ink cartridge at the retail price minus the ink you've already used. I understand that if you pay $1 for some ink and they give you an entire ink cartridge that might be worth 10 or $20 that you shouldn't be able to take 10 or $20 from them after only having given them $1. It does seem kind of weird. They could always put in the fine print that you'll get auto charged for the full ink cartridge if you don't return it. But people will get mad about being automatically charged something unless they signed up for it first so it would have to be an option.
That totally makes sense! Brilliant thinking
Or how about this, they actually charge what the ink cartridge is worth (real price, not padded price), and it is yours?
If you cancel a magazine subscription, you don't lose the ability to read the magazine.
If you cancel a "beer of the month" club membership, the alcohol in the beer you've already been shipped doesn't drop to 0%.
@@MonkeyJedi99 then you would just be buying the ink cartridge at full price which you already can do. That’s the point. You can just go out and buy ink cartridges. If you don’t want to buy all the ink at once, you use this program. It’s dumb but that’s what it is. Now if they just charged you for the remaining ink if you cancel the subscription, that would be a different story and make more sense in the long run. Still a dumb program though
@@davidvirgilio902 Agreed. It's one of the many perfect idiot traps out there.
@@MonkeyJedi99 ya, it's insanely marked up. Buy a tank printer. I have an Epson ecotank. It's fantastic! I think an outside upstart is going to show up in dramatically dropped the price of printing. They'll have to jump real hard to keep pace with it.
The business model is to buy a Brother laserjet, get double sized generic cartridges, and not worry about it for 10 years.
Laser is life
Exactly what i did. Who the fuck prints in colour these days anyway and i doubt many are printing photos like we all used to.
I paid £60 for my Brother Laserjet about 4 years ago, however much for generic toners and have not worried about ink since.
My father cancelled his credit card that had the subscription on it and told nobody, as the tech guy of the family coming home from college and hearing that my mom who usually has no issues with the printer being unable to print was worrying. And I don't blame her, you have to do some moderate digging to figure out what happened since the website HP tells you to go for trouble shooting is just the sign up page for instant ink
just proves the ink is worthless as everyone already knew
The markup is several thousand percent (from a ama on Reddit)
This service reminds me of a professional copier rental service but on a really small scale. If you temporarily need a high output copier/printer machine you can rent a machine and they charge your for time/pages printed. They deliver the machine with toner and provide replacement toner as necessary and take back the machine once the terms are up. This is probably the only practical way to do this on such a small scale.
I'm curious to see when the first printer manufacturer will come up with the idea of offering inexpensive color cartridges in a monthly subscription and, in return for the low price, place their advertising on every printout. These companies obviously don't seem to lack crazy ideas.
HP: We need to save the planet
Also HP: Yeah bro no, go order more ink. You're not using ink you already have
You don't pay for the ink, you pay for a certain amount of prints. Nobody forces you to order new ink. And come one, the amount of e-waste generated by a non depleted ink cartridge like this is negligible. Shitty business model, but at least is transparent
@@pinorino913 OK bootlicker
@@pinorino913 So you're saying that if I cancel subscription before using up all my prints, I still will be able to print, then? Or will I not get even the _prints_ I paid for?
@@MrCh0o if you cancel your data subscription before using all of your Gigs, can you still use them?
again, it's not something i like, but it's not pure evil like other practices
Saving the planet can wait, there's money on the line
First.
that’s why I love my Epson with refillable tanks, the upfront cost for the printer was higher but ink lasts wayyyyy more.
Me too. 👍
@LabRat Knatz They have a cleaning box thing which needs replacing now and then. Epson's have always had a slow power on cleaning cycle thing.
You are indeed first here have an internet cookie 🍪
That's what I did too.
@LabRat Knatz You just don't put ink into any inkjet printer that is just going to sit around. WTF do you expect will happen to it?
Was just dealing with this last week when my ink ran out yeah, they automatically sent me a new cartridge, but it doesn’t arrive for 5 days so a lot of good that does me.
Then something's gone wrong somewhere. The whole point is that the new cartridge is meant to arrive *before* you need it. Did you suddenly do a massive print run that used up all your available ink?
It is a business model. I worked for hp when this program started up. It was piloted in the USA, and after that it was piloted in the UK, I supported the UK, after that the rest of Europe. It counts the printed pages. Yes it is cheaper, if you print full size color photos. However, a single dot printed on a page, is a printed page. So you need to be careful with what you print. They do indeed provide an envelope to send back used up ink cartridges. But what really bothers me, when they send you a new set of ink cartridges, and you aren't home during the delivery, it will be send the to nearest post office. If you don't collect it within 2 weeks, it is NOT send back to hp, instead the cartridges will be destroyed. Because sending it back to HP is to expensive. Ink is the liquid gold for HP. I'm sure for printer manufacturers, ink is for all of them liquid gold.
My Instant Ink goes in the mail box with the rest of my mail.
The UK must just have some weird laws about this.
Yea I have instant ink, idk if I would rebuy my printer now, but they leave my ink at the door
So what happens if you try to print more than the tier allows per month? Did it have rollover pages, a hard limit to the number of pages, or a prompt to purchase a higher tier?
@@beckoningjinx1119 You get rollover pages. When you run out of pages, you get charged per page. You get lots of warnings before and when you go over. You can just upgrade to the next tier to not pay the per page charge, then downgrade instantly so you only pay one month.
The system is about as non-abusive as it gets.
yep i had to teach my family to check for trailing blank pages before they print something
when i need to make the decision on which printer i need to buy, im getting a refillable one. end of story. Also thank you for shining light on this subject, Louis, I will never buy any HP products from now on, and I will encourage my friends and family to do the same.
This is some of the most anti consumer behavior I have ever been shown.
Agree, no more HP for me…and I mean ever.
Ya fascism is great!
@@Blackjack701AD thats not what fascism is.
@@colinmckay5228 well the government allowing this kind of corporate crap sure isn’t not fascism
@@Blackjack701AD you seem to misunderstand what fascism is. One component of fascism is controlling industry/production/business practices etc. So it would actually be considered fascist if the government took over HP and started running the show. Instead what is happening is the government is allowing people to take their grievances to court and ultimately siding with the consumers to protect them and the environment. Ultimately this is giving the consumers the ability to determine whether a company's practices fail or succeed Instead of only allowing a centralized authority to make all the decisions. I just don't see how that's fascist. I'm willing to have a civil discussion about your ideas and thoughts as to why you think this may or may not be fascist however.
I work at a place that sells these printers with the printing subscription service. We don't mention Instant Ink and if anybody ever asks about it, we politely but firmly warn them about this limitation. HP is greedier than most
I use to work for a cable company and we'd get people subscribed to channel packages they never watched. That's the problem with subscription services, you need to know what you need and adjust accordingly. If managed by someone who's smart, it will be cheaper.
I am a HP Ink subscriber, using the 5 $, 100 pages/month plan for home/personal use (no company). Advantages as off October 2021 (HP might change some of the rules later on), are: 1. The price, yes 5 dollars/month for 100 pages is pretty good, considering each original cartridge cost is 10-15 $ for standard (100 pages) and 20-25 $ for XL (200 pages) ones, and you have to double that because it uses two cartridges, one b&w and one color. 2. When the current cartridges are empty enough, they just ship the new cartridges to you. You don't have to go to a store, they just get delivered. 3. If you don't use all the included number of pages per plan, the remaining pages will get transferred to the following month, but no more than three months. All of this is from my perspective as a user of a small, multifunction, ink printer. The disadvantage of course is paying for the ink, and not being able to use it, once the subscription runs out. Not being able to use hardware that you paid for, just because you're not a member of some subscription, it's one of the lowest, most despicable business model, a company could pull on it's users.
1. This reasoning is based on the price of the original cartridge, which is already overpriced. Somehow, it makes the new subscription model attractive only because the usual model (proprietary cartridge) was already a scam.
3. Same, "how nice of them to transfer the unused prints to the following month", let's not forget the captive model in the first place.
2. Probably the only real advantage: peace of mind. Then it's just a matter of seeing if this service is worth the extra money. And I'd argue the concept of automatically getting supplies is not so new, there were third party companies doing this for a long time (including paper).
What's new here is that HP is applying this concept for small printers (for individuals), and that it's locking the system to be the only possible supplier.
Yeah, I'm not trying to convince anyone about this business model being the perfect way, because honestly, it isn't. I'm just saying from my point of view. Basically 5 dollars is the transport fee to have something delivered to your home, here in Romania. Also, in my case, the printer is still on it's waranty period and I don't want to lose that by using third party ink/cartridges. There are many pro's and con's about this sure, but for me, until now, it's not that bad of a deal.
I’d install “Little Snitch” and see what other information is being sent to HP. That’ or see if you can come across a software engineer/tech that can see what privacy issues may be being breached.
I'm not a Mac guy, but doesn't little snitch monitor the programs that attempt to communicate on the Mac itself? I'm pretty sure the printer would need to be connected directly to the internet for that ink program to work so it would completely bypass Little snitch.
@@TheQuickSilver101
I’m not sure if the printer goes direct or through the computer but it can’t hurt to see what’s happening.
@@TheQuickSilver101 Glasswire is another good one
@@Nighterlev I know there are programs that will do that, I'm just saying that Little Snitch isn't going to work like he thinks it is
i personally use an epson ecotank. it has ink tanks and do not use cartridges. the printer came with ink about 4 years ago, now the tanks are half full. i am not sure if the printer will die before it runs out of ink the first time, but if it runs out i can buy refills and fill the tank again.
there is no digital ink meter instead the tanks are translucent so you see how much is in them.
to be honest this is the most honest printer i have seen.
Fun fact: I think original HP ink is one of the most expensive fluids in the world and even beats Chanel No. 5 if I remember it correctly- although this is a different topic. Regarding the software-limitation: Tesla does the same with the battery capacity: you will get the same hardware capacity regardless of the battery size you choose. The actual usable capacity is controlled by software.
Im not sure about most expensive, But i can definitely believe it ot be the one with higest markup rate.
@@RefrigeraThor yeah, and if it isn't most expensive, it must be close.
That is also to keep them from exploding. You will get more miles from it.
If you measure how many ml of ink are in a cartridge and put the full price of the cartridge towards that and calculate it to a liter, or gallon, it is indeed very very expensive. But of course it's not fair to calculate it that way.
Not really, things like one doze of Zongelsma (a medicine for muscular atrophy developed by Novo Nordisk) is worth more than two million dollars and it's maybe a couple mililiters. But yeah, ml by ml, printer ink is very expensive when compared to most stuff.
I'm so glad I bought a cartridgeless inkjet, the bottles cost the same has a set of cartridges, and last me literal years. This printer ever breaks I'll pay out the nose to get it fixed
I owned a Brother printer for over 12 years that I had modded with external reservoirs, to avoid purchasing expensive ink cartridges. When it finally died, I researched and bought a Canon "Pixma G5050" bulk reservoir printer, to avoid the expense of disposable ink cartridges. This approach is significantly less expensive per page...cheaper than laser and Much less expensive that any cartridge printer. However, as it has no scanner, I made a simple scan box out of cardboard box and use that to quickly scan documents using a scanner app on my phone. It's actually much more efficient than scanning with the home office printer.
It does feel weird at first. I think the reason they do it that way is so people don’t get the $1 I k cartridge the cancel as soon as they get it. Whether you actually save money is dependent on what you print, and how much you print. If you print pictures, they take a ton of ink, and you’ll save a boat load of money. If you print tons of pages with hardly any ink you would spend more money with the program. Look at the page yield on the standard and XL cartridges, divide the price by that many pages a d you get the cost per page. Keep in mind, that is an estimate. It is based on a stand I can’t remember the name of, but it’s equal to printing a solid square on each page roughly like an 1.5 X 1.5 inches. So, if you print flyers, pictures, greeting cards, and other stuff with a lot of ink on them, you can expect to get WAY less than the claimed page yield. In those cases, you’d definitely save money with that program.
I liked this post twice because you're right...and you get it. Still, for my clients I recommend anything but HP unless it's a big professional printing shop. Not worth the headache.
@@tsgsjeremy yes, HP has consumer products but they concentrate on large scale solutions more.
i haven't used an inkjet printer at home or work for years because of the ink-based 'business model'. they practically give the cheap, plastic 'printer' away, then gouge on the ink.
laser printers are still made that have generic toners. if you print a lot, it'll be worth the upfront expense and laser toner tends to last a long time compared to an inkjet.
HP’s latest firmware updates to my M477 color laser jet printer don’t allow the use of aftermarket toner Cartridges even if you change out the electronic chip that’s on each cartridge with the proper one. Check out my post here, it’s about 10 or 15 posts up from this one.
also worth it for rather infrequent printing, no more dealing with clogged print-heads, dried out ink and the like, unlike with inkjet
Hey Louis, hope you see this comment.
I'm in the signage industry, and the printer I use to print most of my signage and other promotional goods for customers is a HP Latex wide format printer. These printers are EXTREMELY robust and reliable. As these are commercial equipment, they seem to get much better treatment from big companies like HP, Epson, Mimaki and the like. Parts are available nearly a decade after the machines are made and through reseller networks, any part that is currently being made can be bought if you're willing to do the work yourself. (Most machines have service contracts that cover their lifetime, typically 60 months which covers parts and labour. Warranty can be voided if you work on it yourself during the warranty period though, but considering the fact that pretty much the whole machine is covered, no one bothers to waste time tinkering with it until the warranty ends.) It's funny to me that the regular consumer gets the arse end of EVERYTHING nowadays. Interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Greetings from Down Under. :D
Oreo 😍
Praise upon Oreo the wise
Louis Rossmann: Akimbo Cat Edition
This happened to me and my HP printer and I was THIS close to going Office Space on it. In my case my printer lost its connection to my Instant Ink account and no matter what I tried I couldn’t reconnect it. I cancelled the Instant Ink subscription immediately. I initially thought it would be a great way to save money….
I recently bought a Alaska Airlines plane ticket, it cost as much as a normal ticket and it looked like a normal ticket. When I tried to fly home Alaska told me there might be room for me on the plane that I would get a seat only if some people didn't show up and I might have to wait for the midnight plane or tomorrow afternoon's plane. This is a problem when you have to work the next day, I could have gotten a Delta plane ticket but buying a new ticket would have cost 3 to 4 times what I paid for the original ticket. Its not just printers I'm seeing a lot of things where you pay enough to buy it but the business treats you like a renter. I think the government needs to update consumer protection laws but I don't think they will because when was the last time the government did something for the people? the government listens to the big donors and only the big donors.
This is why I use Brother printer with refillable cartridges which I got from Ebay
What model?
Buy one with ink tanks. Replacing cartridge could still lead to problems.
This is like the John Deere tractors that don't work unless the manufacturer waves its magic wand. No wonder why older tractors are in such high demand, it will probably be the same with modern printers.
Before Covid I was traveling 6 months out of the year. My HP Printer wasn't used during that time. I was being charged for the ink plan but never used very many cartridges. Finally after 3 years I cancelled and did pay as I go. I never really wanted to use the program but needed tech support. The printer was under warrantee and I got very good support. At the end of the tech session the girl talked me into taking the subscription plan.. The phone room is in the Philippines and Philippine girls can be very persuasive. She even said God bless you, when we said goodbye.
I really hate printing anything at all because of the "can't print because one ink cartridge is empty."
Oreo and Mr. Clinton will be back more often. It was definitely a real treat to see both of them relaxing with you.
I don't do a lot of printing, thankfully. But when I do, I almost never need color. A cheap laser printer is good enough for me.
I was adopted by a ginger cat that my neighbors left when they moved out. 2 years later he's still here and he's awesome.
Sad people do that
I had this issue with a printer I bought for my parents. I thought the subscription seemed like a great way to save money so I immediately signed up to it. What I didn't know was it literally LOCKS OUT the carts it comes with in the box, so we had a huge paperweight for days until it finally arrived. What a waste.
Considering that for HP ink, it has always felt like there was a timer in the cartridge that stopped printing after certain threshold was reached, I think it’s an improvement that now they are completely transparent with the users as to how they are fucking them over.
Still, $.99 a month or whatever it was is a vast improvement to $70 for some ink cartridges that stop working after three months no matter how few pages you print.
I will never use HP printers again, but it’s nice they’re giving people the option
I print a test page every two months so my cartridge nozzles dont dry out.
I happened to buy an HP printer right before pandemic. When everyone was stuck at the house. We all need to print stuff for schools and work quite often. So the ink subscription helped us because we use enough to justify the cost. But if HP starts doing that you cannot scan without ink thing. It will become a problem. And I might just start using a scanning app instead of using the printer. I can’t imagine what else they can disable just because we didn’t want to use it the way they want to. They might disable it just for printing pictures or art print that they might deem copyrighted or inappropriate.
Although I support right to repair, and also totally agree to your point of view about Canon scanner/printer thing. I do agree to this business model of HP.
The model says you pay $X for 50 pages. It doesn't say how much ink you can use. You can print a completely black 50 pages which will consume the whole cartridge and HP has to replace it for you within the subscription period/page count. On the same basis, if the subscription expires, the ink left there is not yours.
Also the printer won't talk to cartridge, it will read its details/serial number and communicate to a web API to validate the subscription. You agreed to that type of communication when you subscribed to the service, you were happy about them automatically sending you new ink, then you are not happy when they deny your access to the ink based on the same business model. You should take the whole package or leave it, can't be picky about it.
My insides feel more and more uneasy with the future of technology approaching us.
This is a tough one. I am against the fact that they can disable you from printing if you have printed your allotment. I actually have an HP and this subscription service. The reason I bought it was because it makes no sense to pay $30+ for ink cartridges if I am only printing a few page a month so the subscription makes sense. On the other hand, if you print heavily then it's a different story but I hate the limit where it will stop printing based on your subscription.
The subscription service would be fine if they didn't pull this BS. It's the principal of it. And it's just wrong. It's too invasive. Boycott HP
Hey Louis! I hope this comment finds you well. I am a tech supervisor at staples and sell printers almost every day. And I nust admit the hp instant ink is a total scam for some people. Like you said if you barely print at all it may be right for you, however there is another issue I would like to touch base on. So first off I always tell the customer up front what instant ink is and does and what kind of problems they may run into if it's not a right fit for them. When you sign up for instant ink they allow you to select those packages however what they don't quite tell you is that when you don't use the ink for a month they will still charge you and not send more cartridges. That's the problem with the printer talking to the cartridges to determine whether your payment warrants you a product. It's an awful business practice. I've been converting people to brother black and white laser jets for quite some time now.
The whole ink BS is why the few printouts I need get done by emailing them in PDF format to the nearest Office Depot instead of my all-in-one-printer that is currently out of cyan ink. It started when I set the printer to print in greyscale, but the printer still won't work even though the black cartridge is brand new and completely full....
I accidentally discovered that you can disable the shut down thing. I am technically out of all colors (though I've never used them, ever) and can still print in black.
Cheap B&W lasers are the way to go if you only print occasionally.
That is hilarious. Thank you for the laugh. This is why i never give a damn about inkjet in general. I got a b/w laser printer and i didn't replace the toner cartridge since 5 years or so. Why people still feed the inkjet industry you ask? Too much money to waste. You cannot stop it and you can only laugh at them from the distance, or not, people use and pay for whatever works for them.
I've got this and it works well enough for me. I don't miss the monthly payment, and I've always got plenty of ink on hand to do a print job. Printer companies have always made most profit from selling ink, not the printer.
While the "Instant ink" service is not something I would use (I hate paying for something every month, especially if I am not using it that month), it kind-of makes sense. HP would not want the customer to get the cheapest plan, get the cartridge and then cancel the plan, but keep the cartridge. Then do this again, once the cartridge runs out of ink. With that service you are renting the ink, not buying it, so whatever.
A device refusing to scan if it's out of ink - now that is inexcusable and I am glad Canon got sued over it.
Just make it so that you need the serial to sign up and if you cancel, you can't use that same serial to sign up for 6 months or something.
@@superslimanoniem4712 That would still allow abuse (you'd still get "almost free" ink every 6 months) and would prevent legitimate cancellations ("I'm going away on vacation for a month, won't be printing anything").
In my case as a freelancer who has customers that insist on printed copies of reports I build for them, this plan would make sense. I know I'm always going to be using ink every month, so if I bought whatever plan I would need for the amount of ink I use, it probably would be cheaper for me to go the subscription route. For most users not printing regularly though, it wouldn't make sense. I have an Epson Workforce printer, so it's really academic, but you never know if they might start following HP's lead...
Wow, someone with common sense!
I love how those two cats brought Louis's chill level to 100 lol
Never seen him so happy lol
I thought he had turned it up to 11.
I bought an older Epson Workforce WF-7710 inkjet printer. Found hacked firmware online. Bought and installed. Printer never shows less than full cartridges and never complains about the refillable cartridges that are installed.
I have to open the top of the printer occasionally to look at ink levels and add ink, but in total this is a wonderful experience, knowing I never have to worry about cartridge replacement ever again.
0:59 newer HP Laser printers will permanently brick if you put someone else's toner into them,
unless you have one where the firmware precedes that and prevent from updating.
I'm using the program. But I was grandfathered to keep my free program that cost 0$ for 15 pages a month.
I'm fine with a useless printer if I cancel since nowadays ink cartridges cost almost the same price as a new printer sometimes...
here in the UK the subscription is free for under 15 pages per month and £1.99 for up to 50. I am a very light user so I pay nothing for my ink and I use the 15 pages purely to print high quality photographs. Now the cartridge is massive and can do something like 5000 pages (don't quote me on that), it's insanely good value and if I stop use it, I can understand them stopping me using it further. The fact ink costs as much as it does in the first place is the real issue that needs to be discussed.
It’s called “products as a service” and it’s being promoted as the future business model by the World Economic Forum. Luis wants to tango but doesn’t even know who he’s dancing with. It is by design.
Luis? My tió?
Klaus needs the Inejiro Asanuma treatment
It's bullshit, and we can't keep going along with it. Fact of the matter is, patents have expired on a lot of printing technologies - we can build our own damn printers if need be. Same deal with everything else. There're people who have built their own bloody microchips, solo (though admittedly using off-the-shelf raw materials), in their garages/homes (check out Sam Zeloof's channel if you don't believe me) so it's definitely possible.
There are plenty of people who have the know-how to design and build things (like me, to some extent - and I'm getting better on the daily), and who are also sick of this shit. There's nothing stopping us from getting together and deciding to build these things for ourselves, our friends, and our families - instead of buying from these disgusting, morally-bereft, corrupt, greedy, planet-trashing, inequality-promoting corporations.
It's a bit surprising that people care to support an inherently untrustworthy partner, who is interested in their money first and foremost, by accepting the premise that not owning something that they pay for, but leasing it instead, is somehow better for them. Sure, it might be better while terms are convenient for both sides, which is either not true from the start or doesn't last long, because one side always wants more by default.
Not only that, but the sudo-contract which they enter by _simply buying_ a product is often obscured (looking at Canon and their scanner-printer combo). I guess it can't be helped that capitalism strives through one side abusing the lack of knowledge (I would say "or of options", but it's ultimately the same thing) of the other side, eh
This has been a thing for photocopiers and printers in businesses for forever. Although at the end of the rental or “subscription” the copier/printer rental company will take the copier and printer away. I guess this is specific to just the ink rather than the whole device, but that’s up to the consumer if they think it’s better to “rent” ink rather than buy it outright. Typically in the business side the copier/printer will send the numbers to the rental place for billing purposes. (How many pages and if it was colour or black). Something like 5-10 cents per page.
I once factory reset a copier because I did not have the code to copy. The rental company had forgotten to change the factory reset code. 😀
Well in this case you have to buy the printer first, and then you have options how to get ink.
So we sell this at my job, and the way it's explained to us to explain to customers is that it's a subscription, not a product. If you stop paying for Netflix, you don't get to keep using Netflix (except you do until the month is up, but whatever).
It does actually save you money though, because the average person with a dual-cartrige printer prints 100 or so pages a month, buys 2-3 cartridge sets a year, and $60 ($5 a month for 100 pages a month) over the course of a year is way better than $180+ ($60 a set on average).
That being said not being able to use the cartridges after the subscription ends is kinda BS, but it's definitely a huge savings provided you don't print only in huge bursts. I don't force it on people, and I normally suggest lasers instead (at least when we have them nowadays), but it's not a bad deal at the end of the day, provided you aren't planning on cancelling it.
If you cancel then you just buy your own ink. I don't see that as a big issue. Perhaps they could charge you to make them non instant ink.
I recently subscribed to this HP Instant Ink service after buying a cheap second-hand printer. As a person who prints very rarely, the 0.99/month plan really does save me quite a bit of money, since at the rate I print stuff my ink cartridges would probably dry up before I use them up fully.
While I do agree that it feels strange for the ink to stop working if I cancel my subscription, I think it's necessary to prevent people from exploiting the system by just canceling their subscription and keeping the ink. Of all the ways that companies these days are trying to undermine our ownership of products, I think this is one of the least egregious and actually benefits certain consumers like me. Will definitely be concerning if it goes too far though.
Maybe if they set up an option to pay for your ink on cancellation (based on ink level?) it would seem more reasonable
What exploit? You paid for the ink through the subscription, so why does it have to stop working?
@@Skenjin because subscription is basically paying for a service. Normally, you can’t store or keep a service.
@@Skenjin Well no, I didn't pay for all of the ink, I paid for just enough ink to print 15 pages each month - the subscription is priced cheaply because of that. If I were able to keep all of the ink after paying just 99c for a one-month subscription, I would consider that an exploit.
@@Skenjin your basically paying for a rental. 99 cents a month would take many months to actually pay for the cartridge. If you sub for one month then immediately cancel, the manufacturer loses a ton of money
I took this deal, thinking I could end it whenever I wanted. My debit card expired (and forgot to update with new details) and they blocked the printer from working. The printer didn’t say “you can’t use the ink, but more to continue… “ just a message saying the printer was blocked. Updating my details so they can take my £2 a month got it working again. The good news is I told around 25 people this and even heard a few of them repeating this issue to others. That’s a lot of people that won’t buy HP in the future. I bought a secondhand laser printer for £25 and the toner lasts 2,500 pages for £10.
Sounds a lot like one of the Indian telephone scams.
@@Automedon2 sounds a lot more like "i had the subscription cartridge inside the printer and my subscription obviously run out so i cant use these cartridges anymore but i try to make it seem like HP is evil"
@@weberman173 If you already paid for the ink you have it's yours and you should be able to use it. Why is that so hard to imagine?
@@Automedon2 BECAUSE YOU DIDNT PAY FOR THE INK!!!!!!!!! How is it that hard to grasp.. you pay for a subscription of PRINTABLE PAGES, the ink isnt what you pay for, but the printed pages at the end just like you pay for channels to watch in a Cable TV subscription.
The ink is in this analogy nothing more then a cable TV box the Box is just there to ensure you get the service while the sub is active, after it runs out it stops, just that in the case of a table TV box you aer required ot send it back as they can reuse the box almost imidiatly.
People who think they can pay 2$ for a ink cartridge then cancel(or legitimatly let it run out by acident etc) and keep not only the cartridge(which they can tbf) but also continue to use it are dilusional
Louis, I applaud you for your "free speech" on how HP printers are crap! I have a 10 year old HP printer ( HP 8620) that has been a workhorse for years. I was a subscriber to Instant Ink for years and really didn't have a problem until recently when I fell into the trap of upgrading to a NEW HP printer with the guise of providing you a NEW warranty and Instant Ink at a "said" price point.
In my mind, I had the belief that a NEW HP printer would be the solution for me, I mean after all . . . "newer" is always "better, right!
I received the HP 9129e and set it up for the first time. This printer was to be an "upgrade" to my old printer. I quickly observed many flaws with both "hardware and software" with the new printer.
The build quality was extremely sub standard in the paper tray and every time that I printed something on a different size of paper, the printer would tell me there is a "mismatch" in paper size . . . !
My old HP printer never asked me that! I would put 4X6 photo paper into it, go into Photoshop and hit PRINT! It just worked.
I am not a high anxiety person usually, but I could not box the new printer back up quickly enough to get it out of my house. It was that bad!
Here's the final straw with HP! : I canceled my old Instant Ink subscription when I purchased the new HP printer because I wasn't about to pay "double" on the Instant Ink. I had just installed new cartridges FULL of ink, and just last night I get a message on my HP printer, that said something about my subscription being canceled and then my INK LEVELS all went to ZERO!
I immediately called HP and they said that I MUST go out to a retail store and purchase NEW ink cartridges in order to keep my 10 year old printer functional!
I am going to get onto the CLASS ACTION lawsuit as quickly as I can, and hopefully get some sort of retribution! Again, I applaud you for speaking your mind on this topic, and MORE people need to know. Gas prices are nothing when compared to an "ounce" of printer ink! It unjust and needs to be stopped!
Of course, the juicero was simply a warning of the future smh
VERY IMPORTANT: PLEASE UPVOTE SO LOUIS SEES IT: Cats that don't jump 3 feet with very high probability have one of: arthritis, leg, paw pad or spinal injuries, sprains, wounds, hip dysplasia, diabetic neuropathy, eyesight problems, heart disease, fungal infection. Conclusion: Oreo needs to be checked by the VET
This definitely needs to be seen by Louis
Not gaining many likes...... I assume people read no further than "please upvote" and leave.......
@@marcfuchs6938 Probably something of the like :/ + U gotta scroll to get to it, even if a lil bit the amount of people that see it drops significantly.
My last inkjet was an hp c310a.
Dumped it after getting a cartridge that I got ONE use out of.
Never again.
Got a Fuji xerox laser.
Pretty happy with it.
This makes me wonder how these cartridges differ from each other. Time for some hackiing!? ;-)
The subscription model isn't too bad I think. Disabling InstantInk-Cartridges may be the only way they have found to prevent people from cheating.
Or, they could charge a price for their subscription that doesn't put them in the poor house?
I can't keep a straight face after that. Of COURSE they're making mad money.
@@MonkeyJedi99 Jesus I cant pay my rent this month because i have to pay a dollar a month for ink cartridges that normally cost 60 bucks in the store.
They are like Keurig's approved K-cups. They have a sensor that tells the machine it is one of their approved items. I had my subscription expire because I forgot to update my new debit card. I also tried to use a regular cartridge while it was active and it said that I was using non-instaink cartridges and that they would not be able to supply me with refills when it runs out. So all they did was add a little code that communicates the same way the ink levels do and this pings the HP software on PC to verify that you are using the right cartridges.
@@johncarlaw8633 you can print over the 100 pages but they charge an extra $1 for 10 pages, the pages do roll over for two months tho, so if you don't use the printer for a month you can print 200 pages the following month,
You actually get bigger cartridges than the XLs bought from the shop, I presume to cut down on postage costs
Honestly it's a pretty good service.
@@thechosenjuan7920 It might seem fine. Until everything you "own" requires a subscription fee... if this continues, your toaster and your oven won't turn on without a subscription, even if they're powered; your laptop won't turn on without a subscription; your microwave won't run without a subscription; your electric toothbrush will refuse to work unless you pay the subscription; your phone will brick itself permanently and you'll have to buy a new one unless you pay the subscription; your furnace won't provide heat unless you pay the subscription; and your thermostat won't tell the furnace it needs to turn on unless you pay the subscription.
More and more things will require a subscription until you have nothing left at the end of the month, and you can't save any money for your future or for retirement. And then they'll raise the prices, or something else will suddenly require a subscription, and you'll have to decide between continuing to use whatever it is or continuing to eat. They will ask more and more and more of you until you can't afford to do all of the things you can now, because everything requires an ongoing expenditure. There'll be no more "buy it once and it's yours", the moment you fall on hard times and can't pay the subscriptions, nothing will work.
And then one day, it'll be -40 outside and your furnace subscription will expire, so it'll start getting colder and colder inside... then you'll go to open your front door and find that your lock subscription has expired, so you can't leave and go to a neighbor's or a family member's. Unfortunately, you put smart security bars on your windows, because you got broken into once... and the subscription on those expired too, so they won't open. You didn't think it was such a big deal at the time, because why would you need to exit through the window? You don't have any money left in the account until payday - only a couple of days away - so you can't pay the subscription fees even if you want to, either. Two weeks later, they'll find you and your family frozen to death inside your own home, even though the power and gas were still hooked up and working. Murdered by the devices you "owned", inside your own home, because of the greedy corporations' desire for profit.
Or it'll be a more pedestrian -30 and you'll be driving on a country road, heading to a family reunion at your brother's rural home for Christmas. Nobody else is driving out here - it's a remote road, and on a holiday no less. You notice there's no cell service out here, but that's fine - you just keep going, because you'll be out of the deadzone soon. You're only 30km away from your destination, and your car suddenly shuts off and powers down - "please pay your vehicle operation subscription fee". There's no one around, and you can't call for help because there's still no cell service. You don't really have a choice, so you start heading off across the nearby field to find somewhere with a phone or some heat. You start noticing that the cold in your limbs has vanished, replaced by searing heat - a critical sign of frostbite, but you don't know that - so you take your gloves off, trying to cool them down. They go completely numb and your fingers are rapidly turning a disturbing shade of charcoal-black, but by that point you're so tired you don't notice. As the cold keeps working its way into your core, you get sleepy to the point where you decide to lie down in the snow for a little nap. "It'll be fine" you tell yourself, in a hypothermia-addled stupor. They never do find your body.
It is already getting to the point where not paying subscription fees has the potential to kill people. Look up the motorcycle airbag suit that won't save you unless your subscription is paid - Louis did a video on it.
It might sound like something straight out of some fictional dystopian hellscape, but mark my words - if we don't do something about it, that motorcycle airbag suit will be the rule rather than the exception. We are heading for a capitalist dystopian hellscape of our very own - except this time it's not fiction: this is a very real and deadly serious possibility, in the most literal sense. We should be doing whatever it takes to prevent that. Otherwise before we know it, the body count will start adding up.
I’m very familiar with Instant Ink. It’s good if you print fewer than 500 pages a month. The ink is pretty much unlimited because you aren’t charged per cartridge. It’s the pages you pay for.
You can switch to regular cartridges off the shelf at any time. The plans start at 99 cents a month so they’re trying to prevent people from buying ink for 99 cents and then cancelling the plan and restarting when they need another set. The printer will scan and do everything but print if you’re out of ink or if you cancel the subscription.
The bottom line is that it saves money but you are essentially renting the cartridges. 50 pages a month for $2.99 comes out to $36 a year for ink. Shipping is included, so it’s not too bad.
this is basically the commercial copier model. It makes good sense when you print thousands of pages a day and they service the machine for you. on an inkjet where many uses might print 5 pages every 4 months, i'm not sure its good value, BUT i don't see an issue with the half full cartridge not being usable if you didn't pay for it. there doesn't seem to be any dishonesty behind it, its just weird for the consumer market.
@Louis Rossmann I thought this should have been quite obvious but since I see no one else saying it so far. If you could just use the printer after your subscription has ended then then that means that all someone has to do to get almost free ink is subscribe for one month and then cancel and the rest of the ink is free. That doesn’t make any business sense now does it? In addition, you don’t have to have a subscription to use the printer either as far as I know because I have an HP instant ink printer (I’m not sure if you were trying to say that). You can just use regular ink cartridges, however, I’m not sure whether they have to be HP cartridges or not. I think customers should be able to use aftermarket cartridges if so desired though.
I am very fed up with hp ink subscription. I don't use up an ink cartridge for 6 months and the moment my cc expires I cannot use my printer because they will not send a cartridge despite having paid monthly
If you don’t use ink that much don’t subscribe to a monthly service, I don’t I just buy when I need it, you Only save money if you’re using it a lot
Not skipping ads just to support the Rossman
Not skipping the ads to support Oreo!
My personal experience with Epson Ink Tank is leaps better vs Lexmark, HP and Cannon previously owned.
The Epson printer uses ink tank system, no cartridges.
Been 3 years since I filled it and so far no problems with ink levels, nozzle clogs or ink leaks.
Also don't need to service printhead frequently and printer lasted the longest out of the bunch.
Usage is home use and prints semi regularly.
L4160 Series
First Printing Date :
2018-07-23
Printing Information
Total Number of Pages :
1385
Total Number of B&W Pages :
261
Total Number of Color Pages :
1124
Total Number of 2-Sided Printing Pages :
97
Total Number of 1-Sided Printing Pages :
1288
I haven't tried the program (I happily use a laser printer and will never return to inkjets again), but the idea sounds reasonable enough so long as you know what you're getting. Especially if you don't print much each month. Maybe if they had an option to "buy out" the cartridge when you cancel, that would be better, but I don't have a problem with it as-is.
If they made printers where subscription ink is the only way you can use it, that would be a big problem. But as is, if you don't like "renting" cartridges, you can just buy them.
You nailed it. It is an excellent rpogram.
I've printed 4 pages in the past 5 years. 99¢ per month would be $59.40 (not including tax). Going to a print shop was 4$ (and 2$ of that was for them printing it for me) for 1 visit. So $8 in 5 years vs almost $60.
@@jetah50 So obviously you are not someone who would benefit from this program. Personally i use instant ink when school is in as its cheaper than buying cartridges each semester and the 5$ plan covers me each month.
Ah, theres the real Halloween horror I needed this year.
Honestly, this is probably one of the *few* areas I'm fine with their process. It would be a different matter entirely if a subscription model were the only way to purchase ink but it isn't. Depending on who you are, this could save you a good deal of money versus "owning" your ink cartridge. It's not exactly a big secret that printer ink is not inherently valuable so throwing away a little remaining ink is not a big deal. To me this isn't any worse than oscilloscopes that have tons of physical hardware features baked into the device itself and locked them behind software licenses. It's like, I'm paying for the hardware. I own the hardware, but aren't allowed to use it. That's more of a crime against humanity to me.
I remember when I moved away from home around 4 years ago, I thought that I probably needed my own printer now. I just bought a cheap HP printer, and thought it looked nice as well.
Well, the cartridges that came with the printer still show they have half of the content left, but it prints nothing or just faintly green silhouettes of text that I'm supposed to be printing. Then I looked at new cartridges and realized that a single cartridge costs more than what I paid for the printer.
Making things worse, I have barely used that thing and it no longer takes in paper properly for some god forsaken reason.
If I never need to print something, I'll just get a new printer, and preferably something that isn't this insane about ink. People talk a lot of good about laser printers, so I might have to look into those.
honestly, if you dont need to print very often try to look into getting a used printer and buy aftermarket cartiges so you can save some cash, or if you have a local library that will liet you print for a small fee you could try that if you dont need to print very often
Depending on your actual printing needs, best to just go to some local printing place and do it there sometimes. If you print like a couple of dozen pages a year, a printer makes no sense.
@@yannrampitsch6678 Yeah, I have a library really close to me, so I could do printing there, or just visit my mom and print there, or at friend's place. Hell, even when I occasionally have a job, my workplace has usually allowed me to print different things.
I do use the scanner feature on my printer relatively often, and I'm intending to digitize/scan a ton of old family photos, and I have also been intending to print some photographs for myself and for a friend (even bought proper photograph paper, but then I realized my inks had dried out, so I printed my friend's photos in a photo store, which was still cheaper than new ink and probably better quality as well). I have also been wanting to print some game covers for some games in my collection that have missing covers or ripped covers. I actually did manage to print two front and back covers before my ink dried out, and they are good enough for me even with incorrect type of paper.
So yeah, I would like to have a functional printer at home, even though I might not use that function too often. I think it's useful to have one at home for your own use.
So I'm pretty sure that if I need or want to start printing more at some point, I'll probably look for something actually good, or a used alternative if cheap aftermarket cartridges are available for that.