I’ve heard that the Iowas were originally supposed to use the guns made for the 20s era South Dakota class, is this true and what’s the story behind it
Paper as insulation for a boiler? I feel like that should be a winner in some sort of "Naval Darwin Awards"! Would there be any other ship out there that deserves a "Naval Darwin" for the category; "Loss of Ship - Stupidity". I'm assuming someone would probably mention the Vasa or the HMS Captain.
Gotta love how one of the ships the Royal Navy gave MASSIVE anti-torpedo bulges to ended up stumbling into virtually the only situation where it urgently *needed* to be sunk by a torpedo.
Drach, you've just answered a question I asked 60 years ago. That photo of HMS Glutton sunk in the harbour was hanging up in a pub in Dover but none of the locals seemed to know what it was. I think the pub was the "Admiral Nelson"👍
Glatton was an appropriate name for a ship defined by her armament. The HMS Glatton of 1795 was commanded by the "Carronade Mad" Henry Trollope, with legendary results as she destroyed an entire French squadron. "HMS Glatton was a 56-gun fourth rate of the Royal Navy. Wells & Co. of Blackwell launched her on 29 November 1792 for the British East India Company (EIC) as the East Indiaman Glatton. The Royal Navy bought her in 1795 and converted her into a warship. Glatton was unusual in that for a time she was the only ship-of-the-line that the Royal Navy had armed exclusively with carronades. Glatton was originally armed with twenty-eight 68-pounder carronades on the lower deck and twenty-eight 42-pounder carronades on her upper deck. All were non-recoil, which is to say that they were fixed to the deck. Within a month 32-pounder carronades replaced the 42-pounders. Under Trollope, Glatton first served in the English Channel where she engaged a French squadron on 15 July 1796. The French squadron consisted of a 50-gun ship, five frigates (two of 36 guns and three of 28), a brig, and a cutter. Glatton drove the French vessels into Flushing, having lost only two men wounded, one of whom died later, and despite having at times been surrounded by the enemy and exchanging fire at less than 20 yards." Trollope received a knighthood
Blame it on 1) Corruption in the yards 2) Corruption in the Supervisor of Shipbuilding at each yard, a RN officer supposedly ensuring the ships were built to the RN's standards
@@Bialy_1 He could have been risking his life or health, seeing as it was Wartime and if the Admiralty were so inclined, could have treated this as the sabotage of a Royal Navy warship and used that as grounds to have the offenders tried and hanged for treason
@@colbeausabre8842 🤔 What does everyone mean by "corruption in the shipyards"? The term "corruption" in a shipyard would normally describe an intentional act of sabotage or at least an intentional use of cheap, substandard materials, probably motivated by greed. But he described the use of paper as if it was purposefully added for legitimate reasons(ie. insulation?)
This makes me very happy as a Norwegian, and I like your mentioning of the Halifax explosion in regards to Glatton's potentially as destructive imitation, as I've always described Glatton's spontaneous combustion as it wanting to tap into its Norwegian roots by exploding in a similarly biblically awesome fashion.
The previous HMS Glattons - 1795 and 1871 would also be of interest. It seems that the RN reserved the name for "unusual" or non mainstream ships of different varieties.
After a lengthy career in the British Navy my great-grandfather died in the Glatton fire as did quite a few other members of the crew. He was a senior gunnery officer but I’m not sure what his rank was exactly. A sad blow for the family
Drach did a video on some purpose-built WW1 monitors which had even wider torpedo bulges, Google Google... The guide to the Lord Clive monitors, about five minutes in.
4:52 - To translate that into other units of measurement, the guns had a range of 19.26 nautical miles, 22.16 statute miles, 35.7 kilometers, 0.000000238 astronomical units, 0.000000000001156 parsecs, or 802,300 rack units.
Those coast defense ships were all so interesting. And obscure, these days. You have to go back back back into the old Jane's or Brassey's to even know they existed.
Guess no one thought to outfit a compartment insulating a boiler room from a powder mag with fire suppression system. ;) Of course insulation is supposed to be noncombustable or at least highly resistant to burning. Would've been tragically ironic if one of the 21"ers set off a magazine, the very event to be averted.
Very interesting Ship, both it's history and appearance. Now I have to spend far too long searching for more photos, which I'm sure is pointless but..yeah...
Was Norway ever compensated for the loss of the two ships? I feel like there is a good long form video for you Drach going over how the UK paid off all the foreign countries whose ships they confiscated during the Great War.
Was the issue corrected on the Gorgon? Did the shipyard correct it at their own expense or did the Royal Navy pay for it? Also did anyone get sacked over it?
Those responsible for insulating the magazines with newspaper have been sacked... *magazine fire starts* Those responsible for sacking those responsible for insulating the magazines with newspaper have been sacked.
@@weldonwin Shipyard workers have always been a bolshie lot, managed to make ship building completely uncompetitive in the UK. We could have had ship yards like the south Korean's or the Swedes but the refusal to modernize in the 60's and 70's.
She looks like a missing link. For about 50 years as ships transitioned from sails to steam, inventors through everything at the wall to see what stuck, then finally just past the turn of the century they settled down into what became the modern warship. this ship shows a lot of that wall slinging in her lines but also shows the modern silhouette coming out.
"Daddy, what did you do during the war?" Well, the second it broke out I was sent to the shipyard and began work converting an under construction foo into a bar. We worked on that for four years. Launched her and the war ended during trials. "So you did nothing?" Well, now, we couldn't know how long the war would be or how many ships we'd need. "Doesn't cancel the fact that you did nothing."
Yeah. Shipyard corruption could be pretty bad. There was a Sino Japanese naval fight where people had replaced the powder to launch Chinese projectiles - with Coal Dust ... That wasn't the sole reason the Chinese lost but - it didn't help ... .
Ahh the life of these ships get more and more interesting. Can't easily sink your own ship? Call the crack torpedo Destroyer crews of Cossack and Mings they will get the job done!
As usual great vid one of my goto channels. Now I am going to lower the tone of this. During the intro at about 7 sec, there is a man on the left of the screen. He is turned away but as he turns to face the camera does he give himself a good scratch?
Oh, so that's where the photo you occasionally use of a ship in drydock with ridiculous bulges came from. I'd been wondering about the source for that one for a while.
They also provided stability for the monitor's guns which were over-sized for the hull. There's a lot of recoil to deal with when they fire, usually broadside and rolling would be a serious problem otherwise.
I know it is not a practical response, but it always saddens me to hear of a warship going to the scrappers. It makes me think of a conversation that goes something like this: "Well, the old gal has served us bravely and to the best of her ability, but she's just too old to fight anymore. What shall we do with her?" "Kill her."
You're in luck as I've been trying to design it (along with the other historic Norwegian ships) for the past 3-4 years. That said, I'd kill for it both for waifuness and patriotism.
With hindsight, engineers should have poured their talents into aircraft development. Not new floating bathtubs. It was shown very early on that bombers could easily sink any battleship. The Japanese understood this earlier then most everyone else did. Thus we got Pearl Harbor. Our leaders were happy to fight the last war, not the new one.
The two anti torpedo bulges were giving "very scary" look to those ships. I guess, Germans were running away as soon as they met such a monstrous creature on the sea. However, they actually could save Lusitania.
Gotta love that word, "requisition." If I did it, it'd be theft or piracy. One of which would see me hanged. The USA is doing it right now. But nobody's hanging them.
The British took ownership of the ships under the Right of Angary, which permits a belligerent to seize neutral property if reasonable compensation is offered "Angary (Lat. jus angariae; Fr. droit d'angarie; Ger. Angarie; from the Gr. ἀγγαρεία, angareia, "the office of an ἄγγαρος (courier or messenger)") is the name given to the right of a belligerent (most commonly, a government or other party in conflict) to seize and apply, for the purposes of war or to prevent the enemy from doing so, any kind of property on belligerent territory including what may belong to subjects or citizens of a neutral state. Article 53 of the Regulations respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, annexed to the Hague Convention of 1899 on the same subject, provides that railway plant, land telegraphs, telephones, steamers and other ships (other than such as are governed by maritime law), though belonging to companies or private persons, may be used for military operations but "must be restored at the conclusion of peace and indemnities paid for them." Article 54 adds that "the plant of railways coming from neutral states, whether the property of those states or of companies or private persons, shall be sent back to them as soon as possible." The articles seem to sanction the right of angary against neutral property and to limit it as against both belligerent and neutral property. It may be considered, however, that the right to use implies as wide a range of contingencies as the "necessity of war" can be made to cover "
Pinned post for Q&A :)
Hi Drach hows your day?
Which works war era monitor do you think was best, either from an economic standpoint or in terms of actual combat capabilities?
I’ve heard that the Iowas were originally supposed to use the guns made for the 20s era South Dakota class, is this true and what’s the story behind it
Are there any other cases besides HMS Glatton where shipyard corruption (or during the design phase) doomed an entire ship ?
Paper as insulation for a boiler? I feel like that should be a winner in some sort of "Naval Darwin Awards"! Would there be any other ship out there that deserves a "Naval Darwin" for the category; "Loss of Ship - Stupidity".
I'm assuming someone would probably mention the Vasa or the HMS Captain.
Gotta love how one of the ships the Royal Navy gave MASSIVE anti-torpedo bulges to ended up stumbling into virtually the only situation where it urgently *needed* to be sunk by a torpedo.
Drach, you've just answered a question I asked 60 years ago. That photo of HMS Glutton sunk in the harbour was hanging up in a pub in Dover but none of the locals seemed to know what it was. I think the pub was the "Admiral Nelson"👍
HMS Glutton -- hilariously appropriate for a photo in a pub. 🤣
@@yes_head An auspicious fat finger problem 😁
Which Admiral Nelson pub?
@@-xirx- I have no idea, it was over 50 years ago. Why? Is there more than one in Dover.
@@jimfrodsham7938 probably over 10 Admiral Nelson pubs (especially as it's a port town) in Dover alone. I was only curious, that's all.
Glatton was an appropriate name for a ship defined by her armament. The HMS Glatton of 1795 was commanded by the "Carronade Mad" Henry Trollope, with legendary results as she destroyed an entire French squadron.
"HMS Glatton was a 56-gun fourth rate of the Royal Navy. Wells & Co. of Blackwell launched her on 29 November 1792 for the British East India Company (EIC) as the East Indiaman Glatton. The Royal Navy bought her in 1795 and converted her into a warship. Glatton was unusual in that for a time she was the only ship-of-the-line that the Royal Navy had armed exclusively with carronades.
Glatton was originally armed with twenty-eight 68-pounder carronades on the lower deck and twenty-eight 42-pounder carronades on her upper deck. All were non-recoil, which is to say that they were fixed to the deck. Within a month 32-pounder carronades replaced the 42-pounders.
Under Trollope, Glatton first served in the English Channel where she engaged a French squadron on 15 July 1796. The French squadron consisted of a 50-gun ship, five frigates (two of 36 guns and three of 28), a brig, and a cutter. Glatton drove the French vessels into Flushing, having lost only two men wounded, one of whom died later, and despite having at times been surrounded by the enemy and exchanging fire at less than 20 yards."
Trollope received a knighthood
Don't think I would want the name Trollope in England. Unless of course I was one.
@@rogersmith7396 Yeah that name had me giggling all the way while reading about through his exploits.
@@rogersmith7396 Bit like being called Karen in America
I would love a video about the 1795 HMS Glatton and details of its exploits.
@@HeliophobicRiverman Ah- the horror of his days at school!
Paper as insulation for a boiler? I feel like that should be a winner in some sort of "Naval Darwin Awards!"
Blame it on 1) Corruption in the yards 2) Corruption in the Supervisor of Shipbuilding at each yard, a RN officer supposedly ensuring the ships were built to the RN's standards
The guy that did it was not risking his own life or health... so no chance for any Darwin Award...
@@Bialy_1 He could have been risking his life or health, seeing as it was Wartime and if the Admiralty were so inclined, could have treated this as the sabotage of a Royal Navy warship and used that as grounds to have the offenders tried and hanged for treason
I seem to remember either Drach or Alex saying that Elswick got a spanking over this. No idea what that entailed.
@@colbeausabre8842
🤔 What does everyone mean by "corruption in the shipyards"? The term "corruption" in a shipyard would normally describe an intentional act of sabotage or at least an intentional use of cheap, substandard materials, probably motivated by greed. But he described the use of paper as if it was purposefully added for legitimate reasons(ie. insulation?)
This makes me very happy as a Norwegian, and I like your mentioning of the Halifax explosion in regards to Glatton's potentially as destructive imitation, as I've always described Glatton's spontaneous combustion as it wanting to tap into its Norwegian roots by exploding in a similarly biblically awesome fashion.
HMS Glatton: Died a little too early.
Pining for the fjords.
To be fair, it was a Glatton for punishment.
Beautiful plumage!"
It's just resting....
She's not dead, you've just stunned her.
I've got a slug
The previous HMS Glattons - 1795 and 1871 would also be of interest. It seems that the RN reserved the name for "unusual" or non mainstream ships of different varieties.
After a lengthy career in the British Navy my great-grandfather died in the Glatton fire as did quite a few other members of the crew. He was a senior gunnery officer but I’m not sure what his rank was exactly. A sad blow for the family
4:05 I too prefer my ships with huge torpedo bulges
If those bulges were any bigger it'll become one of those Russian circular ships
Known a few chicks with big bulges. It can be a plus.
#RealShipsHaveCurves
Drach did a video on some purpose-built WW1 monitors which had even wider torpedo bulges, Google Google... The guide to the Lord Clive monitors, about five minutes in.
4:52 - To translate that into other units of measurement, the guns had a range of 19.26 nautical miles, 22.16 statute miles, 35.7 kilometers, 0.000000238 astronomical units, 0.000000000001156 parsecs, or 802,300 rack units.
Cool.
Saturday Lunch Viewing Sorted!
Thank you, Drachinifel.
Mmmmhhh, a coastal defence ship, a very rare delicacy.
lol
A pair of weirdly nice looking ships. I'd be happy to make one my personal yacht.
The hundreds you would have to employ to maintain her would agree.
Those coast defense ships were all so interesting. And obscure, these days. You have to go back back back into the old Jane's or Brassey's to even know they existed.
Guess no one thought to outfit a compartment insulating a boiler room from a powder mag with fire suppression system. ;) Of course insulation is supposed to be noncombustable or at least highly resistant to burning.
Would've been tragically ironic if one of the 21"ers set off a magazine, the very event to be averted.
Great work Sir thank you
Very interesting Ship, both it's history and appearance. Now I have to spend far too long searching for more photos, which I'm sure is pointless but..yeah...
Was Norway ever compensated for the loss of the two ships? I feel like there is a good long form video for you Drach going over how the UK paid off all the foreign countries whose ships they confiscated during the Great War.
Sounds excruciating, long and tedious. I for one, can't wait
It was in the contracts
See the Admiralty case of "Finders vs. Keepers" And the subsequent "Losers vs. Weepers"..
@@rogersmith7396 I see they used the prestigious Law Firm of Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe.
02:58
Was the issue corrected on the Gorgon? Did the shipyard correct it at their own expense or did the Royal Navy pay for it? Also did anyone get sacked over it?
Those responsible for insulating the magazines with newspaper have been sacked...
*magazine fire starts*
Those responsible for sacking those responsible for insulating the magazines with newspaper have been sacked.
Seeing as it was during War Time, that could have constituted sabotage of a Royal Navy warship and seen people tried and hanged for treason
@@weldonwin Shipyard workers have always been a bolshie lot, managed to make ship building completely uncompetitive in the UK.
We could have had ship yards like the south Korean's or the Swedes but the refusal to modernize in the 60's and 70's.
"Lets make this ships really hard to sink!"
Later: "Fuck this ship is really hard to sink and is on fire!"
She looks like a missing link. For about 50 years as ships transitioned from sails to steam, inventors through everything at the wall to see what stuck, then finally just past the turn of the century they settled down into what became the modern warship. this ship shows a lot of that wall slinging in her lines but also shows the modern silhouette coming out.
Nice bit of research, thank you
Do next about SMS Friedrich Carl
"Daddy, what did you do during the war?"
Well, the second it broke out I was sent to the shipyard and began work converting an under construction foo into a bar. We worked on that for four years. Launched her and the war ended during trials.
"So you did nothing?"
Well, now, we couldn't know how long the war would be or how many ships we'd need.
"Doesn't cancel the fact that you did nothing."
Not to be confused with the HMS Gluton.
Far less impressive than the USS Glutton.
5:57 - Nice shot, _Myngs!_
An interesting video indeed 👌👍
I want to know if someone got charged with a crime for switching the insulation with newspaper?
Mae West was involved in the design of those bulges...
When I'm bad, I'm very good.
How does the song go? ... "I like big bulges and I cannot lie."
HMS Glatton is T H I C C!!!
Reckon this ship had simps or what?
Thank you, Drach. A nice piece of Norwegian trivia.
Yeah. Shipyard corruption could be pretty bad. There was a Sino Japanese naval fight where people had replaced the powder to launch Chinese projectiles - with Coal Dust ...
That wasn't the sole reason the Chinese lost but - it didn't help ...
.
Ahh the life of these ships get more and more interesting. Can't easily sink your own ship? Call the crack torpedo Destroyer crews of Cossack and Mings they will get the job done!
One wonders if Mings didn't paint her silhouette on the bridge wings
@@colbeausabre8842 Myngs, actually, but yeah.
Very interesting! Especially since these two ships had somehow completely eluded by interest in naval technology all these years.
Always wondered what became of the Glutton and the Gorged. 😁
famous last words : lets put newspaper on the walls of the magazine next to the boiler room for insulation
newspaper as magazine insulation... ah, now, there's a new one.
@niels lund well, it will react with a jet of flame...
As usual great vid one of my goto channels. Now I am going to lower the tone of this. During the intro at about 7 sec, there is a man on the left of the screen. He is turned away but as he turns to face the camera does he give himself a good scratch?
could you talk about the 1887 gunboat/minelayer Hnoms Tyr?
Oh, so that's where the photo you occasionally use of a ship in drydock with ridiculous bulges came from. I'd been wondering about the source for that one for a while.
That's a pretty THICC thumbnail.......
Basically Pixar moms but as ships
Great example of the sowing/reaping meme except about torpedo bulges
I hope that they found out the corrupt individuals, who replaced the insulation with paper, and hung them up from the nearest yardarm!
Interesting :)
Would love to see a video on the construction of a warship in Sunderland shipyards if that is possible
Love the channel
5:57 This could not end well in any circumstances...
Wow, never I knew it how very big were thosed torpedos blisters!
They also provided stability for the monitor's guns which were over-sized for the hull. There's a lot of recoil to deal with when they fire, usually broadside and rolling would be a serious problem otherwise.
They should have spent the money on trawlers and minelayers. . Then just kept a very accurate chart of the fields
This is kinda passive weapon and the country using it is automaticaly cut off->like for example Ukraine nowdays...
Holy smokes! That's the mother of all torpedo bulges!
A battleship with a badonkadonk?
Looks like something out of a comic strip.
I wonder what condition HMS Glatton is in today ? and if she is largely intact ?
I wonder the same of one of the German heavy cruisers/panzershif that's hulk was used in the foundations of a warf
Drach said she is under part of the Dover ferry terminal
Wet.
Admiral Scheer... Its under a parking lot .
Not exactly an illustrious career as naval ships go... seems a pity the Brits didn't just let Norway have her ships.
Any chance of a HMS Holderness or Scorpion guide? (Yes, I've been reading Ditcham's Life on the Rolling Main)
Such a wonderful class. Too bad Gorgon didn’t survive to WW2, she would have been a damned useful bit of kit.
I know it is not a practical response, but it always saddens me to hear of a warship going to the scrappers. It makes me think of a conversation that goes something like this:
"Well, the old gal has served us bravely and to the best of her ability, but she's just too old to fight anymore. What shall we do with her?"
"Kill her."
With those torpedo bulges, HMS Glutton would be a more appropriate name.
I did'nt know there was an HMS Glutton. Is it similar to USS Overweaning Ambition?
If not a joke, you need glasses. It's the name of a town
@@colbeausabre8842 Ah yes, another one of Draches pinheads. Very traditional.
I like big torpedo bulges and I cannot lie, them itty bitty torpedo bulges aren't for me.
HMS Minge? Surprising name.
Nice
See 5 Minutes guide, click on 5 minute guide, click like, watch 5 minute guide...
Any Modern Warships anytime?
No
Drac only covers ships from Antiquity, Age of Sails to 1950s.
Go to TheShipyard channel for modern ships.
You mean like the Chinese carrier launched yesterday? Nope.
interesting history for their humble origins
That ship really is thicc so she would definitely have excellent hips in shipgirl form if she were to appear in AL.
You're in luck as I've been trying to design it (along with the other historic Norwegian ships) for the past 3-4 years. That said, I'd kill for it both for waifuness and patriotism.
She’s all about that bass.
paper..... insulation....... WTF WHERE THEY THINKING even being corrupt! sm
They were thinking that they were going to be on land if it ever became a problem.
Was anyone at the shipyard held accountable for the insulation fraud?
HMS Glutton
5:35
explicit content
Ended up under where?!!?
What chou talkn bout Willis?
👍
Obligatory comment for the algorithm
Tubby Chubby Floaty Boaty
With hindsight, engineers should have poured their talents into aircraft development. Not new floating bathtubs. It was shown very early on that bombers could easily sink any battleship. The Japanese understood this earlier then most everyone else did. Thus we got Pearl Harbor. Our leaders were happy to fight the last war, not the new one.
Shades of Kongo and Fuso in these ships.
I bet both Britain and Norway missed those ships in 1940...
The two anti torpedo bulges were giving "very scary" look to those ships. I guess, Germans were running away as soon as they met such a monstrous creature on the sea. However, they actually could save Lusitania.
what a waste they should have just delivered them to the Norges, as for the newspaper someone should have swung
How much did England pay in reparations?
Gotta love that word, "requisition."
If I did it, it'd be theft or piracy. One of which would see me hanged. The USA is doing it right now. But nobody's hanging them.
Newspaper...
The British will never learn how to build a ship without facepalm-inducing blunders, will they?
The newspaper obviously wasn't in the design. I'm curious as to what other blunders occurred though in the construction of British ships.
91st, 18 June 2022
Next do indonesian ships
At first I did read HMS Glutton. *facepalm*
:)
Do these torpedo bulges make me look fat?
Too bad they never reached the Norwegian navy. They would have been much tougher opponents when the Kriegsmarine showed up in 1940.
Drach - isn't it time to rerecord your 'sign off' announcement with your own voice?
I've put it to the vote a few times and people keep voting to keep it 😀
Thicc gal
The British took ownership of the ships under the Right of Angary, which permits a belligerent to seize neutral property if reasonable compensation is offered
"Angary (Lat. jus angariae; Fr. droit d'angarie; Ger. Angarie; from the Gr. ἀγγαρεία, angareia, "the office of an ἄγγαρος (courier or messenger)") is the name given to the right of a belligerent (most commonly, a government or other party in conflict) to seize and apply, for the purposes of war or to prevent the enemy from doing so, any kind of property on belligerent territory including what may belong to subjects or citizens of a neutral state.
Article 53 of the Regulations respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, annexed to the Hague Convention of 1899 on the same subject, provides that railway plant, land telegraphs, telephones, steamers and other ships (other than such as are governed by maritime law), though belonging to companies or private persons, may be used for military operations but "must be restored at the conclusion of peace and indemnities paid for them." Article 54 adds that "the plant of railways coming from neutral states, whether the property of those states or of companies or private persons, shall be sent back to them as soon as possible."
The articles seem to sanction the right of angary against neutral property and to limit it as against both belligerent and neutral property. It may be considered, however, that the right to use implies as wide a range of contingencies as the "necessity of war" can be made to cover "
Angary also describes the Ottomans when they did it to Agincourt
Wish we had Angry in the US. I would be seizing all sorts of stuff.