The Other Ships With 18in Guns - with Special Guest Drachinifel
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- Опубликовано: 13 фев 2023
- In this episode we're talking about the largest guns ever put onto ships with our special guest, @Drachinifel
To send Ryan a message on Facebook: / ryanszimanski
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no one loves ships more than these two - outstanding content
Which is pretty funny, since I'm 99% sure neither served 🤣
But I appreciate their enthusiasm.
@@JoshuaTootell - there may be very good reasons they could not serve which are probably not our business - I'm sure they both serve to promote naval careers better than any recruitment office - 🛸✨
@@JoshuaTootell strange comment
@@JoshuaTootell beeing a service man does not always correlate to beeing the best content provider on a certain subject.
I love ships as much, but i do not know as much as the hair on Alex' pinkie finger
I feel that these combined communities would pay good money for a “Drach & Ryan” video series!
A buddy cop comedy where they moonlight as amateur investigators for naval mysteries. I see an iconic car, and catchphrases.
I would love to hear the BB NJ crew pop up as special guests in an episode (or two) of The Bilgepumps.
@@Plaprad Yes. So much yes. And a catchy opening a la Magnum P.I. or the Interceptors from Top Gear.
oh heck yes! sign me up!
Sign me up too. I really like these two guys and together they could do a vwry interresting show 😃
Drach and Ryan
The ultimate Naval team up
Like Nelson and Farragut getting together.
Needs Jingles for 3rd. he is "just" a gaming youtuber but is an old RN sailor and knows drach and is just hillarious.
@@Zonkotronyes
The Ryan/Drachinifel bromance is just adorable.
Drachinifel is a real life walking naval Encyclopedia! His knowledge and expertise is unmatched, at least from what I have seen. Impressive!
One can really tell the depth of his knowledge when he goes off script and just tosses out a string of detailed, arcane, information right off the top of his head.
Ryan and Drac side by side. Excellent video.
the two youtubers i watch for Naval history. so cool to see them both together.
I'll take 2x1 every day and twice on tuesday
They look like they could be brothers too!
Brothers from different countries, I would say
I like the videos when Ryan uses himself as a unit of measurement.
Americans will always use anything but the metric system. Footbal fields, school buses, Ryan's etc 😄
@@davem2369 bacon is also a viable measurement for bullets
@@Grove122 You can't possibly leave that comment hanging like that! Give us some context here please 😂
@@rongardener4142 the Apache chain-gun fires 30mm bullets about the length of an uncooked strip of bacon and it also shoots them around 650/minute.
@@Grove122 Would that be 650 Strips a minute? No wonder Obesitas is such a problem in the US.
Nothing better than Drach and Ryan together ❤ match made for Valentines day. Joke aside. 2 of the best world wide. This from a Big Mamie friend.
I wouldn’t mind shooting my 5 inch gun into Ryan’s belt armor…
2 good looking hunks.
"You must be able to say that in your sleep." 😁
If Ryan gets any smoother or faster He'll sound like one of those speed-spoken disclaimers at the end of car ads 😂😂😂
Love seeing you and Drach work together!
I've also read that the USN considered the 18" gun's muzzle blast a bit excessive - that it would have wrecked exposed fittings on the deck (such as, for example, AAA mounts). The development of the "super-heavy" 16" AP shell, as used by the USN's fast battleships, allowed the Navy to effectively up-gun their battle fleet without actually having to go up to a larger gun caliber.
I agree with the excessive part, especially as the 16"/50 and the super-heavy got really close to the performance of the US designed 18" gun. I don't think gun-blast perse was a major factor. More the fact that if you really don't want to compromise on other aspects of the ship, you really need a huge ship like Yamato, while you could have more ships, with more shells on target, with performance that is not that far behind an 18" gun.
IMHO the USN wanted to be able to fight a BB engagement and win, but it also realized it would be mostly doing other things to actually win the war. The IJN really went into the mindset that they could humiliate a weak-willed Western opponent by crushing them hard in one grand battle involving subs, torpedo-engagements and a final BB clash and that the USN /RN would crawl back in their cosy Victorian era mansions without ever considering a fight again.
I do wonder a bit about the super-heavy shell, as one way they increased the weight was by shrinking the explosive charge. Penetration is important but some boom on arrival seems similarly important.
@Wick9876 Well, yeah. It's engineering, not magic - there's no such thing as "perfect," there are only tradeoffs to be balanced against each other. In this case, the choice was between bursting charge and penetration - with the context being that everyone expected navies to continue building battleships for decades to come, with 16" guns (and thus _protection against_ 16" guns) becoming the new standard. And after all, the Navy still had HC shells for when they just needed a bigger boom and didn't care about penetrating battleship-scale armor.
@@Tuning3434 Oh it is. Nelson's 16" guns would damage the deck and break light bulbs when it fired. Yamato's 18" guns could concuss anyone exposed on deck when they fired. Before anyone asks, AA crews.
And in WW1 a ship's pet chicken got all its feathers blown off by its own guns.
The US had an 18 inch gun already in testing too and it had a super heavy shell weighing almost 4k lbs. But the era of battleships were ending so further development of a super battleship ended as Aircraft carriers became the more effective way of striking the enemy.
Wonderful seeing these two together.
It also makes me giggle when drach says an idea was ‘shot down’ while talking about a battleship and stood next to a massive shell.
Scuppered would be a better word.
My two favorite naval content creators in one place!! 👍👏
Congratulations to Drach for receiving the coveted "Curator Unit of Measure" recognition from Ryan.
As a Navy veteran, let me say, OUTSTANDING!
Some ship designs are so crazy, if you would read about them in a science fiction or diesel punk novel you would deem them too unrealistic.
My friend Leo Champion has written an SF series with tanks that had 21” guns. I pointed out the ammo handling issues to him. He laughed, and pointed out this is far enough in the future that they’d have the handling equipment.
Check out Desert Strike, it’s a great romp.
tbf an Iowa or Yamamoto would seem unrealistic to a WWI sailor
*Tillman on KRAK* How about, we arm our ship, with 24 guns in sextuple turrets!
@@waynesworldofsci-tech comity sf ? HAMMERS SLAMMERS much more plausible in tank format long time sf and military reader 1952 just saying
@@pamgettel9056
Leo was writing for fun. He also does some interesting stuff with the background cultures.
Between Ryan's hands-on knowledge and Alex's historical and engineering knowledge, I could watch these guys chat all day. Kind of like watching Bernhard Kast and Nicholas Moran on "Military History not Visualized" recently.
Wow. So much naval knowledge in one frame.
These guys are great together. Drach's depth of knowledge and ability to recall it is unreal.
the US Navy during interwar years of WWI and WWII tested firing of 18 inch naval guns on land along with the 16 inch guns . The US Navy noticed that the shells for the 18 inch naval guns weigh more than the 16 inch naval guns and the loading time was slower as well. The US Navy went on to use the 16 inch naval guns
Same reason we settled for the 50 cal. For our fighters and bonbers, as opposed to more cannons like everyone else, we figured the 50 could carry more ammo on board, fire faster, and generally would be "good enough".
The N3 battleships were also due to use improved versions of these 18 inch guns, wish they were built! 😭
Yeah the N3 Class Hyper -Dreadnoughts would be hard in a post WW1 and Pandemic World
There's also one of the 101,000 theories of what the QE (or modified QE) class HMS Agincourt was going to be
Im so happy to see ryan and drach in a video together, we need drach going through ships and nerding out on details. I think would be great content. I would love to see drach stop by Texas in her dry dock state. I'm going to be scheduling a tour here soon and can't wait.
If people look online for the rail, and wonder where it is, and happen to find a top down drawing of the Monitors modified to hold the 18in guns, it's the round (piano like) shaped lines.
It goes around the gun, with a chevron termination on the far end, and a (i believe) parking line that forks parallel to the "piano end loop".
From a drawing i found, i think storage on deck would've been 61 shells on the upper deck.
That Guy is Cool. Thanks for bringing him in.
16 versus 18 in sounds very much like the five versus six inches in the smaller warship categories... The increase in the caliber just didn't pay off versus the in practice fire rate
Drach, are you still scheduled to aboard the USS Midway on Thursday 1:00pm?
I’ll be driving down from OC to see you and the ship.
Thanx for all that you do!
Thanx to your wife too for supporting you!
Yep :)
@@Drachinifel 'start preparing another Chocomel bomb for miss Drach'
Fantastic. Great technical knowledge. As in Nature a larger opponent can be defeated by the blows is a more agile opponent landing more blows. Size isn’t an indication of fighting ability. 👍🏻🏴
Its like the avengers....they finally team up and its amazing
There was the Duilio class of 450mm (17.7") class 🙂
Nice tow my favorite historians together.
I would love to see you guys to a debate on modern ships.
Another good one to have on a channel with me Aaron from sub brief.
The title card is Lord Clive Class Monitors ain't it?
Great seeing you two together! Love both of your channels!
Awesome video, thank you and thumbs up. You guys work well together.
More Drachinifel collaboration!!!
Wish I could have gotten up to see you both. Very best wishes!
A pleasure to see this 2 fine gentlemen together in one video. Just amazing.
I think it depends on what you envision the ships mission to be. If you expect ship-to-ship combat and you have very accurate fire control then go with the big guns. If you see the main mission as carrier escort and shore bombardment even 14" might be best because it allows you to more completely saturate the target area with hits as the smaller guns will deliver more rounds during the time period.
GREAT COLLAB! I watch both of these channels and I love that they are working together.
Useful stuff. Thank you
nice to see both of my fave ship youtubers together!
Thank you for the video! Glad to see Drachinifel over to talk with Ryan.
(:
Thank you Ryan and Drach I try to catch all your videos for straight dope on warships.
Fascinating thank you chaps
Amazing vid, love both Ryan and Drach's work!
It was great seeing you two in person last weekend and was well worth the trip.
I hope you guys do more videos! You two really know your stuff!!
Do you mean more videos together? If not and you're new to this channel and Drachinifel...better strap in.
Lovely to have both of these men doing a vid together. Peak content.
Always nice when both of you work together on a topic.
Another great video from the battleship. Keep it going
Oh cool! Love both your channels, great collab!
Enjoyed the speaking event with you both.
Thanks for the collab guys... Great teamup!
Ryan legit looks like he's about to skipper a U-Boat into the Atlantic. 😉 Great work. Keep it up.
Would be a tough gig for a (seemingly) tall fella.
Drach looks like he about to the death star run
You all should go to naval weapons station Dalgren, they have fire able 18",16",14" gun barrels,plus the armor from the Yamato shipyard that was tested (they shot it), plus other surface warfare guns.
Dammit I need to go to sleep early as I'm working super early tomorrow morning, this vid title looks like it will be awesome!
I have a little model I made from balsa of HMS furious and that was a ship with a single 18-inch gun., my version fires paperclips lol 🙂 😆
Love the channel, the 16” guns were and are the greatest compromise between ability to create damage and high rate of fire!
I love that we have Ryan and "British Ryan." You two look more similar than I would have thought and I love it. Been watching both channels forever now.
I really liked the fact that Drachinifel was on your podcast, Kudos! A good presentation, I always wondered why the bigger is better didn't hold true for battleships. However, that said, aviation and carriers would be the death knell for the battleship and no gun measurement was going to halt the movement to aviation.
I recommend Drach's RUclips channel to any subscribers or other fans of Ryan's channel. Very informative videos. Great to see this conversation between two experts who clearly love the subject of big gun capital ships.
Saw drach in person on Saturday at the BB NJ. Very cool. Enjoyed the vid.
Getting a greater rate of fire for an 18" seems like challenge rather than problem.
Find a couple of Engineers and tell them it can't be done. You will have a solution in no time!
Theres a video out there showing the Japanese loading systems for the 18.1 inch, its pretty advanced.
But only for a spherical ship in a vacuum running the second latest version of libstdc++.
Drach on the New Jersey!!!! Good to see!!!!!!
I like Drach and and Ryan's channels. Combined even better.
2 legends of RUclips Nice vídeo
That was a great collaboration and presentation. Well done, guys.
Good to see you two crossing paths. :)
Rate of fire and number of barrels firing seems to be the real King of Battle. A 12 gun broadside firing every 30 to 45 secs is far more shell weight delivered than a larger gun that means fewer barrels and lower rate of fire. I would love to see a statistical account of how many hits were actually obtained in battle per salvo.
Agreed - Very much like automatic weapons... which can throw more lead at the opponent per unit time. Now, if you could get an three 18" triples with the same rate of fire as a 14" or 16" - I'll take the 18".
@@fredinit Unfortunately, no one could make that happen.
If you ever get the chance to come in shooting distance ... And don't forget the thicker armour of larger ships with larger guns ...
You forgot about range.
@@1roanstephen Never say Never.
Well the Yamatos had them as HMS Furious and Lord Clive Class Monitors, the HMS General Wolfe and HMS Lord Clive got 1 single 18" turret and the 3rd was intended for the HMS Prince Eugene
Oh crap, two of my favorite naval commentators!!! NICE!!!
Ryan wins the beard contest.
You two are having altogether too much fun😎
Great duo!!!
These 2 are the only channels I even watch anymore. Living in Philly and having so much naval history and having the NJ and Ryan just across the river in slightly biased 😂. But Drach is the man. He's got literally every ship in his head.
Great video, guys...👍
Great video as always. Awesome collab!
Great stuff!👍🏻
Excellent video. I recall reading that the Japanese did look at a design with 6 x twenty inch guns.
Cool to see two of my favorites collaborating.
I always enjoy your videos the 16" guns were the ideal size
My two favorite RUclipsrs in one place!!
Great video guys!
One of my favorite tag teams.
So much for my idea of mounting one big gun on a small ship. Been done and now I can see how that does not work. Fun to see that the idea was actually tried.
fascinating stuff with my favourite RUclipsr as a guest
good to see Drachinifel.
The Yamato's 18" AP shell wasn't just heavier, it doubled the weight of the bursting charge over the Mk 8. That would was getting to the point where the explosives can cause major structural damage and you won't need that many hits to kill your opponent.
Break break. I watched a video on the Battle of the Denmark Straits on Oceanliner Designs. It was quite well done It seemed to draw heavily on Drach's loss of the Hood video.
I saw that as well. I was surprised that no credit was given to Drach.
There is one thing the Iowa's have over both Yamato and Musashi don't. The increase gun caliber length. Yamato's and Musashi's guns were 46cal length. That's only 1cal length longer than the 16'/45cal Marks 5 and 6 guns that the Colorado, North Carolina, and South Dakota classes had. I won't lie, the 18.1' shell was heavier, however it was being fired out of a shorter barrel length than what the Iowa-class has. That 50cal length, coupled together with the mark 8 superheavy armor-piercing shell, is on par with, if not slightly superior to the punching power of the Yamato's bigger guns. Shell/muzzle velocity from longer gun barrel is basically key in overall performance of battleship guns. Also, I too watched Oceanliner Designs' video about the battle of the Denmark Strait several hours ago. The more you research, the more you'll learn something that was ultimately not mentioned or accidentally missed out.
Sure, there are many things to say about design and doctrines. For Bismarck in the situation it was, even relative limited damage was crippling enough to abandon the mission and try to recover the ship. And with German naval capabilies in '41, not an unreasonable decision.
Yamato was build to really slug it out in the last BB clash with the remainder of a USN or RN fleet in the South China sea or East Pacific, or in ideal situations a confined space like the streets of Malakka under air superiority. And if you all chips in like the Yamato design did, it works on a unit level. I feel Yamato would kill everything or die trying. But for the IJN there was no recovery whatsoever after the 'die trying'. I understand why an 18.1" feels appropriate for them, but not claiming it was the wisest investment though.
But in the end, WW2 showed time and time again that complex plans only work out if the enemy allows you to execute them, and there is a lot of merit to go for several 16" armed ships to have the extra operational flexibility. The USN had nothing gain from a 'die trying' doctrine. A fight hard, fight well doctrine feels more suitable because there is always a massive economic powerhouse an ocean away behind the fleet. In the End the USN was able to leverage there economic power and had the flexibility to not even have to engage Musashi or Yamato in surface combat.
This is true, however, bigger bursting charges give an advantage on a roughly equal number of hits. If your opponent can land 3 hits for every 1 you get, then the difference in damage per shot has to be very large to justify it.
@@Drachinifel Hi Drach! If you can achieve a 3-1 rate it doesn't really what the caliber of the main battery is.
Enjoyed that thorouhgly. Thanks!
The Iowa project under 18 "was worked out. But at 45000 tons, the maximum contractual displacement, i.e. 35000 + 10000 escalators, only 7 guns were obtained and there was no certainty that 33knt would be obtained in normal displacement. And the speed for the Iowa project was the main characteristic. In fact Iowa is a battlecruiser. So the fact that the Iowas did not get 18 "was not because of the mythical low rate of fire, but because of contractual restrictions and speed requirements.
2 legends together on a legend
Educational, excellent & oil for the dream. Love the engineering; respect the wet.
Please send Drachinifel to Wilmington, NC next... I would like to walk around the USS North Carolina with him and listen.
Basically a drach full body reveal on a different channel, what a meme, 10/10 content
Well, USS Washington was the only American battleship to sink an enemy battleship in WWII, so at least by that metric the NC class's nine 16" 45 cals can be accurately called the most successful American naval rifles.
Well... maybe. It's debatable whether the Yamashiro was sunk by US battleship fire or by torpedo hits; it may have already been unrecoverably damaged even disregarding the torpedo hits: it was observed to be badly afire and suffering internal explosions from the gunfire. And if the fatal damage was from the US battleship gunfire, it's impossible to tell which one delivered the fatal hit.
Also worth noting that if you go by Drach's reasoning, Washington didn't kill a battleship, it killed a battlecruiser. But at least (unlike Yamashiro) it's easy to conclude that Washington fired the fatal shots at Kirishima.
@@bronco5334 thats true, listening to a podcast on the pacific war, and re-reading Neptune's Inferno, she is always listed as a BB, Drach seems to be the only one who refers to them as battlecruisers, which they were.
More of this would be Great 👍
A most enjoyable collab.
Drach is literally the best historian I follow on RUclips! He’s a wealth of knowledge
Good stuff!
What a high caliber video!
In addition to the shell handling problems, I would surmise that the 18" shell would either reduce the number of rounds that a ship could carry or require more space to accommodate the same number. The 2" diameter difference would have been a 12.5% difference for not only the shells but also the powder bags. The 500 lb. weight difference would have increased the burden on the buoyancy reserve by 19%.
Stop bringing practicality into it, everyone knows that bIgGER is mORE bETteReST.
You’re lowballing it by a lot. An 18 inch shell is about 42.4% heavier than a comparable 16 inch shell
I remember reading in a book on battle ships that German was looking to build a battleship with 20in guns