The Kongo class were pretty much the only BC class ever rebuilt so extensively, and their one and only purpose in IJN planning was to be a dedicated screen penetrator unit, leading long lancers to do their dirty work at night. Not to be a fast battleship, despite being called as such, and certainly not to brawl with actual battleships. Given the generally sceptical attitude towards airpower at that time, and without 20/20 hindsight, was spending so much resources rebuilding those vessels to be mere screen penetrators a solid idea?
Can you do a Project 21 battleship breakdown or short commentary (using Nelson as a comparison would make sense). I find the Project 21 values to be highly optimistic, entering into the realm of laughable. Yet, it is treated as a serious design. It has the same empty displacement, but would have carried heavier guns, heavier turrets (Nelson turrets LOL), more extensive armour, thicker belt, deeper belt, supposed to have engines similar to the Iowas in output (and thus been faster). The only area that it really saves on in comparison is the range aspect. All that on a similarly dimensioned hull, that the British had to seriously compromise in order to make work, yet here it is vastly more capable.
Picture of CEYLON was taken 1959 during SEATO exercise.......just make out HMNZS ROYALIST (Dido Class) on our Port side..........I served onboard during that commission 1958-60.
My grandfather served on Ceylon through Korea, I have just managed to sort out all his old photos including some great pictures of all the turrets firing and a leaflet produced on ship showing how many rounds fires and what at (and the accompanying BDA) fascinating stuff.
My father was on the Ceylon prior to the Korean conflict until late 1954. He was a Leading seaman on front upper turret. I would confidently say that your grandfather and my dad knew each other. 😀
@@eugenegilleno9344 His name was Brian Hodgson, I have heard he was a bit of a well know character (for better or worse) so he probably would have known of him. I do have a lot of pictures of the other crew that he has taken so happy to trawl through what I have for you
Served in the Royal Marines Detachment onboard HMS Gambia during 1957-58 as a 3rd Class Gunlayer. "B' Turret and the two starboard side 4" mountings were RM manned. "A" Turret and the port side 4" mountings plus the Bofors were RN manned. My action station was as the Gunlayer for S1 twin 4" mounting - electrically powered with what I would call a joystick control . We fired starshell, variable time "VT" and time mechanical "TM" explosive rounds. During 6" target practice I was tasked with monitoring the accuracy of the Turret Trainer in keeping the turret lined up with directions from the GDP - when a salvo was fired you could feel the pressure buildup in the turret. Great competition between RN and RM gun crews.
Just a note: The Dido class is pronounced diedo, not deedo. I worked on HMS Dido in Portsmouth Royal Naval Dockyard and it was definitely called HMS Diedo.
Too true Fred Farnackle.................irks the hell out of me..........neither that ship, nor the later Leander Frigate of same name, was ever "Deedo", always "Diedo"with the abvious nickname throughout RN of "Dildo".
Interesting presentation,thank you. My late father who passed in 2015 at 93 served all of the first commission in HMS Jamaica and was present in the actions mentioned in the video. The "J" also supported the North African landings.
longhunter1951 Ceolwulf my grandfather joined HMS Jamaica in 1944. Said he was lucky as hell, as he missed the cold stuff and she was down into the tropics.
My grand father served on the HMCS Uganda, he was part of a Bofors crew as munitions loader. Told me about a time when they were engaged in combat, Japanese Zero kamikaze was targeting them, they unloaded on him and the plane just clipped the radio wire and missed the vesse. Scared the crap out of him unsurprisingly.
Going to add an interesting trivia about the INS Mysore, former HMS Nigeria: Commander K.M. Nanavati of the INS Mysore was accused of killing his wife's lover once he found out about the love affair. Nanavati retrieved his service revolver from the ship's arsenal and assassinated the paramour in his own apartment. The case was tried in the local courts in front of a jury. Despite overwhelming proof against the commander, the jury gave a not guilty verdict mostly being swayed by the emotional and moral aspects of the case. This was one of the last cases tried in front of a jury in India. Soon after the jury system was abolished to prevent a repeat of this incident. The High court overturned the non guilty verdict but the President of India ultimately pardoned the commander.
My great grandfather was a wireman on the hms Kenya from 1940 to 1943 interesting story about the shi was while on convoy duties t was hit torpedo that caused quite a bit of damage from an Italian sub and had to be to Gibraltar for a patch job before head back to the UK for full repair in a town called South shields that's where he met my great grandmother he said the captain was mad as a hatter and when they new the bismark wasn't far from them he was fully ready to engage them saying if we had used all of our munitions and the ship still floated they would ram it in to submission!
Also was going to ask was there any thought to building or converting an A A battleship, like a seaborne version of the Berlin flak towers. Having many many 5 inch ish guns but no main armament
HMS Nigeria was overhauled at Cammel Lairds of Birkenhead before it was sold as the INS Mysore. My father worked as a draughtsman there and drew the plans of Mysore which I still have.
HMS Bermuda - pennant 52 / C 52 - is pictured on a number of occasions in this video. it is Bermuda that is shown (according to her Wikipedia entry) launching the Walrus seaplane. Before her decommission (1962) she made several visits to Bermuda in the '50s / early '60s, to participate in post-WWII NATO joint exercises. HMS Bermuda was from time to time a rather familiar sight docked alongside Front Street in Hamilton Harbour. According to local news reports her crew would out-complete other ships' crews from Canada, Belgium, US, etc in gunnery competitions, despite their much more modern vessels and guns. I recall her sailors being rather feisty - when on shore leave after the competitions they would go about in small groups looking to pick fights with other crews -
very hard to find anything about HMS Kenya , my grandad served on it as an electrition and sonar , ive seen pictures he took of the poundings and massive holes it got, It was scrapped later after war , Kenya was the lead ship in Operation Claymore and accompanied and escorted the newly formed Royal Marine Commandos on their first major raid , another odd thing is it's impossible to find any records that he was on that ship
Thanks Drach These were tough and well built ships that gave sterling service. Amazing that Britain, France and the US could build ships that complied with Treaty limits yet other countries just couldn't seem to abide by treaties they signed.
The Colonies took part and fought in WW2 and still lasted long after Superb was scrapped. That ship was a disaster and infested with cockroaches. The Swiftsure was very similar to Superb and would have lasted longer had she not been rammed by Diamond. Mysore (ex Nigeria) collided with Hogue and wrote her off. Hogue was the only Battle class destroyer to make it to Tokyo Bay.
For some reason I have a soft spot for the aesthetics of treaty era cruisers, not as much the Royal Navy's (though I do like them) as the US Navy's. I can't quite put my finger on it but there's just something about them.
You can't really argue against the idea that Britain favored numbers over better quality ships. During the war these (very) light cruisers served a useful purpose being sent anywhere a heavier armed and armored cruiser would have been a waste of resources. They were perfect as heavy convoy escorts and most were used as convoy leaders. So you could say they were the right ship at the right time, and once peace broke out, they could be decommissioned with no great economic loss.
A pity that the drawing accompanying the comments about 5.25in guns (3min 35) has eight turrets (in an arrangement never adopted) rather than the seven mentioned. There were several designs with six 5.25in turrets with two abreast forward, but K25F with eight turrets, and K25G with seven (the only 5.25 version actually submitted to the Admiralty Board) had all their turrets on the centreline. K25G had 4 forward, 3 aft, superfiring. There was a similar Vickers design with the layout shown in the video.
@Hammerschlägen M I assume you checked every ship from this list? Or you're just ignorant? Also i dont like when someone say that smaller fleets are not "real". It just mean that you're arrogant.
As a Newfoundlander I can't let your typical Brit pronunciation of the name of my homeland pass without protest. it SHOULD be pronounced with the accent on the last syllable - ideally as "New-fn-LAND', rhyming with 'understand'. I know - a lost cause getting any one to pay attention, but I ought to get some sympathy from a country that regularly hears names like 'Leicester' and Worcester' mangled by all and sundry!
Just of interest I have a photo of H,M,S ,Newfoundland leaving Columbo with paying off pendent flying taken by me from the S,B,N ,O, s launch,believe 1954/5 .
"displacement" - you measure the amount of water the ship displaces (the dry dock has water up the 'x' mark, but after the destroyer is in, the level is at 'y', so
@@cpt.batteryacid8682 I thought the way to go was like the spacebattleship Yamato. Wave motion WMD, shock cannons and pulse lasers. ofcourse all at light speed 😉
2:35 -- *LULZ* You were very careful about "Newfoundland" I noticed. This is one of those names that the Locals fully expect you to mispronounce, but if you ever find yourself in Newfoundland, it goes like this -- "New-Fin-Laand, Un-Der-Staaand?"
Perhaps what I should have said was, there was practically no connection between the Crown Colony of Newfoundland and the cruiser, either. Newfoundland was, at that time of WW2, under a "Commission of Government" conducted by the British Crown, because the Dominion government of Newfoundland had gone bankrupt in the 1930s, due to WW1, from the war loans and the War Dead. In Short -- the various "Classes" of ship sometimes strike me as being influenced by Churchill's sense of duty, honour, and glorious sacrifice. The Crown Colony class would be a good example, I think.
Cruiser stern (as on Town class) lengthened the hull to a tapered finish, to lessen wave making resistance and thereby increase speed. Colony class had a transom (squared off) stern, giving same hydrodynamic effect without the weight of an actual tapered stern piece.
Yes!! They need to add either the HMCS Uganda/Quebec or the Ontario. Quebec has a better history but Ontario has a different, slightly better secondary/AA armament.
The best way I've heard on how to pronounce my home's name is: "Understand Newfoundland" - they should not only rhyme, but have the same intonation. "NU - fun -LAND' for syllable emphasis... and that last syllable is not pronounced "lund" like so many other place names ending in '-land' it's literally the word 'land' with an... 'ash' ae vowel - like the 'a' in "ash" (and yes, the second syllable is compressed from 'found' into just 'fun' again, "Newfoundland; understand?" ;)
Video was recommended to me probably because I also watched HMCS Uganda/Quebec video, and his other videos. Good stuff. Also here because of HMCS Uganda, and even Azur Lane game influences with HMS Jamaica & HMS Fiji. Thanks for making me slightly more familiar with HMS Jamaica :)
USA Brooklyn class cruisers longer, wider and deeper draft. More engine power, 5 triple turrets, thicker armour with longer range and more crew and 4 floatplanes and yet the same sub 10,000 ton displacement. Either the UK was super inefficient or the USA was lying it's arse off.
If I remember correctly the Crown Colony Class was built to the second London naval treaty which limited the displacement of light cruisers to 8000 tons appose to the 10000 tons of the Washington Naval treaty, where as the Brooklyn s were designed as a response to the first London treaty which limited the total displacement of cruisers America could have but left the 10000 limit unchanged. Thus its possible the Americans used the extra breathing room to just make a better ship
@@empath69 Although at least in US practice, aircraft and fuel supplies were sometimes jettisoned if surface combat was anticipated and the aircraft could not be flown off, as they were a fire hazard.
Well, that's better than the USN's current naming conventions - which are basically "we'll name our ships anything we damn well please", which basically means currying favor with politicians. We now have the Ford class of aircraft carriers - leaving themselves open to 50 years of bad car jokes....
Common sense would have been to build big hulls... little armour. . 3 triple 6s but a suspicious location for a superfiring aft with some old pom pom on top... rear magazine double usual capacity... ohh.. for pom pom ammo etc..... Then if war... or treaty run out... Slap on a spare triple 6.... lots of armour plating you just happen to have on hand... or under production.... a couple of torp guns... etc etc... Turning your 7999ton cruiser into 10000+ ton cruiser.... Ohhh.. who would have thought.....
I am aware of the issues... but the moment war budget issued.. not a problem.. and can Re outfit as dock up.... They did this with armour belt on some counties and went over 10k so it's perfectly legit... If no war... no issue as ships perfectly good for use... And materials can be used on newer units etc....
Any ship that takes a hit in the magazine will explode. At lest the RN had the nous not to build carriers with wooden decks, a lesson learned at Okinawa.
The Crown Colony class is one I've never understood. Even as the RN was trying to be honest about following through with naval treaty limits, how was a Colony class ever going to be an effective ship when the USN Cleveland class had the same main battery but was 53 feet longer overall and had a beam over four feet wider. The Clevelands were designed with a wink and a nod to treaty limits, and were still plagued with topweight problems their whole service life. It didn't take a first rate naval architect to tell the Colony class wasn't going to be a success in almost any role. Since the UK could build lots of light cruisers and lots of destroyers, but didn't have the resources of the USN to do both simultaneously, the resources put into Colony class seems like it could have been better spent building more destroyers.
Sometimes you don't optimize but reach an acceptable compromise. For all of what you said, the Crown Colonies gave excellent service, and were therefore by definition effective and successful. (I liked how HMS Jamaica -- like HMS Sheffield -- kept popping up at major confrontations with the Kriegsmarine.)
@@glennricafrente58 I never said they weren't modified to become useful ships. My point was that most never really served in the role of a twelve gun main battery cruiser because of the continual battle with topweight, Jamaica being one example. My question was if the RN would have been better served by an equivalent displacement in destroyer rather trying to fit Cleveland type armament into a such a relatively small hull.
1) Better served? Maybe? But we have the benefit of hindsight when judging. 2) Cruisers did more than get into shootouts with main batteries, workhorses of the fleet and all that. (Though I'm sure Jamaica was glad she had 12 guns rather than 9 when she met the Hipper.) 3) Lots of useful ships in WWII never or rarely played their designed roles. They adapted.
@@glennricafrente58 My remarks had nothing to do with if the Crown Colonies were adapted into acceptable ships. not does involve hindsight. The issues with the vessels were known and discussed as the ships were being designed. Trying to duplicate a Town class cruiser in 1,000 tons less displacement was something designers object to 1936, and most of those objections came to pass, with the inferior armour protection compared to the Towns still not being enough to offset the topweight of the overly large main battery, excessively cramped crew space, and weak antiaircraft protection. Most of these objections were only improved by removal of X turret, removal of their aircraft, and adding more, but still insufficient, antiaircaft guns. My question remains - would the RN have been better off devoting the tonnage ot more destroyers rather than building a class of cruisers that had known problems before they were even laid down?
Sar Jim, your original post asked how this class was *ever* going to be an effective ship, and you posited that the class wasn't going to be successful in *any* role. All my replies have been been in response to those statements. I argue -- based on their actual record -- Yes, despite all the shortcomings you have described.
Pinned post for Q&A :)
@keith moore yes!
Can you do a video about the SMS Szent István battleship
And the Hungarian ships in the A-H navy?
The Kongo class were pretty much the only BC class ever rebuilt so extensively, and their one and only purpose in IJN planning was to be a dedicated screen penetrator unit, leading long lancers to do their dirty work at night. Not to be a fast battleship, despite being called as such, and certainly not to brawl with actual battleships. Given the generally sceptical attitude towards airpower at that time, and without 20/20 hindsight, was spending so much resources rebuilding those vessels to be mere screen penetrators a solid idea?
How did the HMS Trinidad torpedo herself?
Can you do a Project 21 battleship breakdown or short commentary (using Nelson as a comparison would make sense). I find the Project 21 values to be highly optimistic, entering into the realm of laughable. Yet, it is treated as a serious design.
It has the same empty displacement, but would have carried heavier guns, heavier turrets (Nelson turrets LOL), more extensive armour, thicker belt, deeper belt, supposed to have engines similar to the Iowas in output (and thus been faster). The only area that it really saves on in comparison is the range aspect.
All that on a similarly dimensioned hull, that the British had to seriously compromise in order to make work, yet here it is vastly more capable.
Last time I was this early, Halsey was still guarding the San Bernardino strait
This is the best early comment I've seen.
I'm so early Japanese observers haven't studied Taranto yet
I'm so late yet the German ships at Scapa Flow are still being scuttled.
I'm so early that the Second Pacific Squadron hasn't yet started.being a disaster.
Last time I was this early the Bismarck was still heading towards France
Picture of CEYLON was taken 1959 during SEATO exercise.......just make out HMNZS ROYALIST (Dido Class) on our Port side..........I served onboard during that commission 1958-60.
My grandfather served on Ceylon through Korea, I have just managed to sort out all his old photos including some great pictures of all the turrets firing and a leaflet produced on ship showing how many rounds fires and what at (and the accompanying BDA) fascinating stuff.
My father was on the Ceylon prior to the Korean conflict until late 1954. He was a Leading seaman on front upper turret. I would confidently say that your grandfather and my dad knew each other. 😀
@@eugenegilleno9344 His name was Brian Hodgson, I have heard he was a bit of a well know character (for better or worse) so he probably would have known of him. I do have a lot of pictures of the other crew that he has taken so happy to trawl through what I have for you
@@eugenegilleno9344 I served on CEYLON a bit later.............was Jnr/Ordinary Seaman 1958-60 commissioin
I currently work in a retirement home and one of our great residents was a crew mate on this ship and I had the honor to meet him today ..
Served in the Royal Marines Detachment onboard HMS Gambia during 1957-58 as a 3rd Class Gunlayer. "B' Turret and the two starboard side 4" mountings were RM manned. "A" Turret and the port side 4" mountings plus the Bofors were RN manned. My action station was as the Gunlayer for S1 twin 4" mounting - electrically powered with what I would call a joystick control . We fired starshell, variable time "VT" and time mechanical "TM" explosive rounds. During 6" target practice I was tasked with monitoring the accuracy of the Turret Trainer in keeping the turret lined up with directions from the GDP - when a salvo was fired you could feel the pressure buildup in the turret. Great competition between RN and RM gun crews.
My dad was on the Jamaica 1947-49 ....Kenneth Arthur Follows 1928-2003 RIP Dad
Just a note: The Dido class is pronounced diedo, not deedo. I worked on HMS Dido in Portsmouth Royal Naval Dockyard and it was definitely called HMS Diedo.
The Brits being Brits and classically-minded and all that, I'm surprised they didn't christen another of that class "Aeneas" . . . .
Too true Fred Farnackle.................irks the hell out of me..........neither that ship, nor the later Leander Frigate of same name, was ever "Deedo", always "Diedo"with the abvious nickname throughout RN of "Dildo".
Fiji has always been my favorite British cruiser in terms of design. Love it
Interesting presentation,thank you. My late father who passed in 2015 at 93 served all of the first commission in HMS Jamaica and was present in the actions mentioned in the video. The "J" also supported the North African landings.
longhunter1951 Ceolwulf my grandfather joined HMS Jamaica in 1944. Said he was lucky as hell, as he missed the cold stuff and she was down into the tropics.
@@Bunionification I believe she went into refit then and they removed X turret. I have photographs from my dad's album, lots and lots of ice.
longhunter1951 Ceolwulf Sorry. My grandad joined in 1945, not 1944. I have photos too, but they’re of Jamaica in South Africa and east Africa.
My grandfather was dental assistant on HMS Jamica during ww2
My grand father served on the HMCS Uganda, he was part of a Bofors crew as munitions loader. Told me about a time when they were engaged in combat, Japanese Zero kamikaze was targeting them, they unloaded on him and the plane just clipped the radio wire and missed the vesse. Scared the crap out of him unsurprisingly.
Going to add an interesting trivia about the INS Mysore, former HMS Nigeria:
Commander K.M. Nanavati of the INS Mysore was accused of killing his wife's lover once he found out about the love affair. Nanavati retrieved his service revolver from the ship's arsenal and assassinated the paramour in his own apartment.
The case was tried in the local courts in front of a jury. Despite overwhelming proof against the commander, the jury gave a not guilty verdict mostly being swayed by the emotional and moral aspects of the case. This was one of the last cases tried in front of a jury in India. Soon after the jury system was abolished to prevent a repeat of this incident.
The High court overturned the non guilty verdict but the President of India ultimately pardoned the commander.
Yeah ... we had a jury let O.J. Simpson off ... can't say much for that ...
.
Indian Justice is a shining example to follow for all the world’s people.
@@BobSmith-dk8nw
Yo, yo player, check this... "If the glove don't fit, you must acquit"! 😁
My great grandfather was a wireman on the hms Kenya from 1940 to 1943 interesting story about the shi was while on convoy duties t was hit torpedo that caused quite a bit of damage from an Italian sub and had to be to Gibraltar for a patch job before head back to the UK for full repair in a town called South shields that's where he met my great grandmother he said the captain was mad as a hatter and when they new the bismark wasn't far from them he was fully ready to engage them saying if we had used all of our munitions and the ship still floated they would ram it in to submission!
That moment you stop what you’re doing at work cause you realise Drachinifel uploaded!
Lovely looking ships. 3:42 You say 7 picture shows 8, but would have been interesting ships in the Pacific theatre either way.
Also was going to ask was there any thought to building or converting an A A battleship, like a seaborne version of the Berlin flak towers. Having many many 5 inch ish guns but no main armament
Last time I was this
Early the Great lakes only had brigs
HMS Nigeria was overhauled at Cammel Lairds of Birkenhead before it was sold as the INS Mysore. My father worked as a draughtsman there and drew the plans of Mysore which I still have.
My father served on HMS Newfoundland in the Pacific fleet. Always said it was a happy ship.
Happy colony.. Thanks to your father..
Interesting bit of trivia....the father of Christopher Hitchens (the brilliant British writer) was the captain of the Jamaica during the war.
And Peter Hitchens…the daily Mail writer
🥃🚬
HMS Bermuda - pennant 52 / C 52 - is pictured on a number of occasions in this video. it is Bermuda that is shown (according to her Wikipedia entry) launching the Walrus seaplane. Before her decommission (1962) she made several visits to Bermuda in the '50s / early '60s, to participate in post-WWII NATO joint exercises. HMS Bermuda was from time to time a rather familiar sight docked alongside Front Street in Hamilton Harbour. According to local news reports her crew would out-complete other ships' crews from Canada, Belgium, US, etc in gunnery competitions, despite their much more modern vessels and guns. I recall her sailors being rather feisty - when on shore leave after the competitions they would go about in small groups looking to pick fights with other crews -
Fantastic video, my grandfather served on HMS Jamaica. He joined in 1945, at the age of 16. He lied about his age.
very hard to find anything about HMS Kenya , my grandad served on it as an electrition and sonar , ive seen pictures he took of the poundings and massive holes it got,
It was scrapped later after war ,
Kenya was the lead ship in Operation Claymore and accompanied and escorted the newly formed Royal Marine Commandos on their first major raid , another odd thing is it's impossible to find any records that he was on that ship
Beautiful ships. Excellent video.
Thanks Drach
These were tough and well built ships that gave sterling service.
Amazing that Britain, France and the US could build ships that complied with Treaty limits yet other countries just couldn't seem to abide by treaties they signed.
The Colonies took part and fought in WW2 and still lasted long after Superb was scrapped. That ship was a disaster and infested with cockroaches. The Swiftsure was very similar to Superb and would have lasted longer had she not been rammed by Diamond.
Mysore (ex Nigeria) collided with Hogue and wrote her off. Hogue was the only Battle class destroyer to make it to Tokyo Bay.
'...there are 8 lights! ' haha, at 3:41
I think that’s why I like the Royal Navy so much, they had the best ship names
Another excellent video post as always.
For some reason I have a soft spot for the aesthetics of treaty era cruisers, not as much the Royal Navy's (though I do like them) as the US Navy's. I can't quite put my finger on it but there's just something about them.
They just had nice lines
One of the better reviews!!
I do believe this is the earliest I've arrived. Thank you YT for that recommended viewing.
You can't really argue against the idea that Britain favored numbers over better quality ships. During the war these (very) light cruisers served a useful purpose being sent anywhere a heavier armed and armored cruiser would have been a waste of resources. They were perfect as heavy convoy escorts and most were used as convoy leaders. So you could say they were the right ship at the right time, and once peace broke out, they could be decommissioned with no great economic loss.
When ships company on HMS Vigo in Farham Creek in 1963 Gambia & Ceylon were moored across the creek behind Bermuder & an unfinished aircraft carrier
A pity that the drawing accompanying the comments about 5.25in guns (3min 35) has eight turrets (in an arrangement never adopted) rather than the seven mentioned. There were several designs with six 5.25in turrets with two abreast forward, but K25F with eight turrets, and K25G with seven (the only 5.25 version actually submitted to the Admiralty Board) had all their turrets on the centreline. K25G had 4 forward, 3 aft, superfiring.
There was a similar Vickers design with the layout shown in the video.
Have there ever been an example of a battleship hitting with its torpedoes? Also thought about covering the altmark incident?
Yeah, Rodney for example torpedoed Bismark
@@DimoB8 for example? It was the only one if I remember correctly
I add here ship to list:
-ORP Nieuchwytny
-ORP Orkan and ORP Huragan
-Polish monitor river classes (Cracov type and typ B)
-KU-30 river class chaser.
@Hammerschlägen M I assume you checked every ship from this list? Or you're just ignorant?
Also i dont like when someone say that smaller fleets are not "real". It just mean that you're arrogant.
Hms Belfast made it into a museum. Might be worth mentioning in a future video.
Lord Porthos HMS Belfast is not a Crown Colony cruiser though.....
True. But it is the same as the Edinburgh and you have mentioned the Edinburgh.😄
As a Newfoundlander I can't let your typical Brit pronunciation of the name of my homeland pass without protest. it SHOULD be pronounced with the accent on the last syllable - ideally as "New-fn-LAND', rhyming with 'understand'. I know - a lost cause getting any one to pay attention, but I ought to get some sympathy from a country that regularly hears names like 'Leicester' and Worcester' mangled by all and sundry!
You should hear a "proper" English speaker try to say Newcastle or Plaistow it just makes me cringe as for Worcs or Glos its is awful.
Ay's da by's da bilds the ships.😊
Correct. No one cares.
I like your videos! Cruisers are the best!
Just got a Fiji in WoWS and here to find out more about her.
Would you consider doing the story of Yangtse Incident, with H.M.S. Amethyst?
Just of interest I have a photo of H,M,S ,Newfoundland leaving Columbo with paying off pendent flying taken by me from the S,B,N ,O, s launch,believe 1954/5 .
Well that 8 turret plan makes the Atlantas look reasonable and well balanced. I think the royal navy should be glad they did not follow that up.
Could you do a 5 minuite guide of the HMS Trinidad?
my dad was on hms Jamaica during the war until 1948, not much on you tube about the jamaica
My dad 1947 to 1949
I'd like to add a suggestion to your ever growing list. The Black Swan class.
Please excuse my ignorance but how do you weigh a ship in reffrence to the naval agreements.
"displacement" - you measure the amount of water the ship displaces (the dry dock has water up the 'x' mark, but after the destroyer is in, the level is at 'y', so
What was it called before Newfoundland?
The rounded bridge looks like Italian or Polish ships.
No mention of Kenya and Uganda being either loaned or sold to the Royal Canadian Navy as HMCS Ontario and Quebec
Or of HMCS Uganda (before the name change) voting itself out of WW2
Kenya did not become Ontario. Ex Minotaur became Ontario.
You should do a video on Uganda specifically. What a story that was.
Designers. We need to to take the quart known as the Town Class and put it in the pint pot known as the Crown Colony Class. Should be easy enough.
The moment I heard the Uganda in my mind: DO U KNOW DA WEA BRUDDA
Ask old Rafeki he know da wea
Ok brudda
Another great review! I'd like to suggest the American Barnegat class seaplane tenders. Very versatile ships that had long serve lives.
HEY should do British Class Leader class , Enterprise
Good looking cruiser!
Mini Superstructure of doom!
oh god
[WoWS Fiji flashbacks]
See yuro shoot fiji to 1 hp
Um... Fiji is one of my favourite ships in the game...
Azur Lane Fiji as well, gorgeous ship, but a nightmare droprate in that game XD
No views!
Rule Britannia Britannia rules the waves
(I ran out of witty thing to say forgive me drach)
i hope the ruler of Britannia who uses the ruler is in compliance with the naval ruler treaty 😁
@@obelic71 Nope, next battleship will have rail guns ! Eat this Iowa
@@cpt.batteryacid8682 I thought the way to go was like the spacebattleship Yamato.
Wave motion WMD, shock cannons and pulse lasers. ofcourse all at light speed 😉
@@obelic71 I want everything you just said. But replace yamato with hood retrofit. Take all my money
@@cpt.batteryacid8682 I propose a refit of HMSS Warspite or HMSS Dreadnought instead of HMSS Hood (HMSS stands for: here majesties spaceship)
2:35 -- *LULZ* You were very careful about "Newfoundland" I noticed. This is one of those names that the Locals fully expect you to mispronounce, but if you ever find yourself in Newfoundland, it goes like this -- "New-Fin-Laand, Un-Der-Staaand?"
ie. Found is contracted to Fin.
Perhaps what I should have said was, there was practically no connection between the Crown Colony of Newfoundland and the cruiser, either. Newfoundland was, at that time of WW2, under a "Commission of Government" conducted by the British Crown, because the Dominion government of Newfoundland had gone bankrupt in the 1930s, due to WW1, from the war loans and the War Dead.
In Short -- the various "Classes" of ship sometimes strike me as being influenced by Churchill's sense of duty, honour, and glorious sacrifice. The Crown Colony class would be a good example, I think.
Attractive looking ships. Thanks.
1:26 anyone have a source for that image?
Crown Colony class of the Royal Navy sounds like the practical guide to imperialism. Where do we sign up?
R.I.P HMS Trinidad.😣
What was the purpose of the cruiser stern?
Cruiser stern (as on Town class) lengthened the hull to a tapered finish, to lessen wave making resistance and thereby increase speed. Colony class had a transom (squared off) stern, giving same hydrodynamic effect without the weight of an actual tapered stern piece.
Early enough to be the first Newfoundlander to point out it's pronounced "Newf'un'lan"
Sounds very similar to “Newzee’lun” !
Shadoe It might be in Newfoundland but my father served in her and always pronounced it pretty much as the narration.
Irrelevant it's a RN ship with UK pronunciation.
I'll certainly defer to her crew. Cheers.
Known throughout RN as "Newfie"
For shame WoWS hasn't had the three-turreted Ceylon-subclass yet
Yes!! They need to add either the HMCS Uganda/Quebec or the Ontario. Quebec has a better history but Ontario has a different, slightly better secondary/AA armament.
not to mention the dido's and the proposed 5.25 inch variant for an AA line !
Did someone get lost on their way to hitting the "Like" button?
They were clearly victim- I mean, 'crew members' aboard Kamchatka, disappointed that there were no torpedo boats in this review.
The short lived second London naval treaty. That must be something like the 2015 Climate agreement.😂
Newfoundland is all one word and is pronounced as one word not three
@Hammerschlägen M I prefer he prounces the name of one our provinces correctly
The best way I've heard on how to pronounce my home's name is: "Understand Newfoundland" - they should not only rhyme, but have the same intonation.
"NU - fun -LAND' for syllable emphasis...
and that last syllable is not pronounced "lund" like so many other place names ending in '-land' it's literally the word 'land' with an... 'ash' ae vowel - like the 'a' in "ash"
(and yes, the second syllable is compressed from 'found' into just 'fun'
again, "Newfoundland; understand?" ;)
Hms Kenya please
Video was recommended to me probably because I also watched HMCS Uganda/Quebec video, and his other videos. Good stuff. Also here because of HMCS Uganda, and even Azur Lane game influences with HMS Jamaica & HMS Fiji. Thanks for making me slightly more familiar with HMS Jamaica :)
USA Brooklyn class cruisers longer, wider and deeper draft. More engine power, 5 triple turrets, thicker armour with longer range and more crew and 4 floatplanes and yet the same sub 10,000 ton displacement. Either the UK was super inefficient or the USA was lying it's arse off.
If I remember correctly the Crown Colony Class was built to the second London naval treaty which limited the displacement of light cruisers to 8000 tons appose to the 10000 tons of the Washington Naval treaty, where as the Brooklyn s were designed as a response to the first London treaty which limited the total displacement of cruisers America could have but left the 10000 limit unchanged. Thus its possible the Americans used the extra breathing room to just make a better ship
I choose the latter option.
Maybe I am silly but... why would anyone just jetison perfectly good planes and fuel stores overboard?
metaphorically speaking - not LITERALLY 'jettisoned' but 'removed in dry dock in favour of...'
@@empath69 Although at least in US practice, aircraft and fuel supplies were sometimes jettisoned if surface combat was anticipated and the aircraft could not be flown off, as they were a fire hazard.
I dont like this naming convention for british classes. A class should be named after the first ship, not the theme. Was there an HMS Crown Colony?
Don't think any non-capital ships have been named for lead ship in the Royal Navy, though it gets confusing with subclasses
Well, that's better than the USN's current naming conventions - which are basically "we'll name our ships anything we damn well please", which basically means currying favor with politicians. We now have the Ford class of aircraft carriers - leaving themselves open to 50 years of bad car jokes....
Pretty common in the RN, though. Admiral-class, County-class, Town-class, etc.
Common sense would have been to build big hulls... little armour. . 3 triple 6s but a suspicious location for a superfiring aft with some old pom pom on top... rear magazine double usual capacity... ohh.. for pom pom ammo etc.....
Then if war... or treaty run out...
Slap on a spare triple 6.... lots of armour plating you just happen to have on hand... or under production.... a couple of torp guns... etc etc...
Turning your 7999ton cruiser into 10000+ ton cruiser....
Ohhh.. who would have thought.....
Spare 6in turrets would still cost money and with the price of re-equiping all 3 services in the late 30's, not something that the UK could afford.
I am aware of the issues... but the moment war budget issued.. not a problem.. and can Re outfit as dock up....
They did this with armour belt on some counties and went over 10k so it's perfectly legit...
If no war... no issue as ships perfectly good for use...
And materials can be used on newer units etc....
Hms Jamaica
whats the name of the song that drach uses for his intro? its not darude sandstorm.
🦅👍
Aww, no drachisms...
Lol air planes obsolete for spotting? Obviously they’ve never played hoi4. Where I load my spotting cruisers to the brim with Spotters
The last time I was this early, the Royal Navy were making ships that didnt have a bad habit of exploding.
So before Hood?
@@kyle857Or before Jutland......
Does anyone honestly find this comment amusing?
Any ship that takes a hit in the magazine will explode. As Okinawa showed we didn't make the mistake of building carriers with wooden decks.
Any ship that takes a hit in the magazine will explode. At lest the RN had the nous not to build carriers with wooden decks, a lesson learned at Okinawa.
The Crown Colony class is one I've never understood. Even as the RN was trying to be honest about following through with naval treaty limits, how was a Colony class ever going to be an effective ship when the USN Cleveland class had the same main battery but was 53 feet longer overall and had a beam over four feet wider. The Clevelands were designed with a wink and a nod to treaty limits, and were still plagued with topweight problems their whole service life. It didn't take a first rate naval architect to tell the Colony class wasn't going to be a success in almost any role. Since the UK could build lots of light cruisers and lots of destroyers, but didn't have the resources of the USN to do both simultaneously, the resources put into Colony class seems like it could have been better spent building more destroyers.
Sometimes you don't optimize but reach an acceptable compromise. For all of what you said, the Crown Colonies gave excellent service, and were therefore by definition effective and successful. (I liked how HMS Jamaica -- like HMS Sheffield -- kept popping up at major confrontations with the Kriegsmarine.)
@@glennricafrente58 I never said they weren't modified to become useful ships. My point was that most never really served in the role of a twelve gun main battery cruiser because of the continual battle with topweight, Jamaica being one example. My question was if the RN would have been better served by an equivalent displacement in destroyer rather trying to fit Cleveland type armament into a such a relatively small hull.
1) Better served? Maybe? But we have the benefit of hindsight when judging. 2) Cruisers did more than get into shootouts with main batteries, workhorses of the fleet and all that. (Though I'm sure Jamaica was glad she had 12 guns rather than 9 when she met the Hipper.) 3) Lots of useful ships in WWII never or rarely played their designed roles. They adapted.
@@glennricafrente58 My remarks had nothing to do with if the Crown Colonies were adapted into acceptable ships. not does involve hindsight. The issues with the vessels were known and discussed as the ships were being designed. Trying to duplicate a Town class cruiser in 1,000 tons less displacement was something designers object to 1936, and most of those objections came to pass, with the inferior armour protection compared to the Towns still not being enough to offset the topweight of the overly large main battery, excessively cramped crew space, and weak antiaircraft protection. Most of these objections were only improved by removal of X turret, removal of their aircraft, and adding more, but still insufficient, antiaircaft guns. My question remains - would the RN have been better off devoting the tonnage ot more destroyers rather than building a class of cruisers that had known problems before they were even laid down?
Sar Jim, your original post asked how this class was *ever* going to be an effective ship, and you posited that the class wasn't going to be successful in *any* role. All my replies have been been in response to those statements. I argue -- based on their actual record -- Yes, despite all the shortcomings you have described.