It's hard to take a critique seriously from someone whose never heard of her. She was nominated for her first Tony in 1996 for an extremely well known show and won one in 2000 for an even better known show.
Thinking down in the body is a good idea, but you should fix your own technique before you comment on others, because your tongue is down in your throat. Furthermore, if you knew anything about vocal performance, you would realize that Idina is CHOOSING to sing nasally because that is the style of music that she is trying to portray.
I understand you reasoning, but you probably picked her worst performance ever. That poor girl was in the middle of "Frozen Frenzy". was singing that song probably 12 times a day. She was also doing "If/When" on Broadway, 8 times a week. She was overworked and I think that she was just trying to push through a crazy schedule. She probably had to push because her voice was so overworked at the time. I'm sure she did not have the choice to NOT sing, so her voice was tired. Considering the situation I'm suprised she didn't end up in node surgery. Watch her sing Defying Gravity, live on Broadway. Amazing!
Idina: Not *Id(eye)na* BUT *Id(eee)na* Idina was really ill, as we can hear, and every singer has missed an important note, even if adhering to your vocal critique. However, I'm certain she has amazing vocal coaches. What you heard was an ill vocalist who was a bit more nasally than usual due to that. Idina has an unique vocal quality, which you deem "way down into her nose". She actually sings far less into her nose than the way you speak, but I digress. Though I think you do have a couple of good vocal suggestions/points, totally changing Idina's signature Tony award winning sound would not be wise. I also think singing with a sore throat is not good either, and vocal rest is a must, but most times, "the show MUST go on.", and sometimes to the singer's detriment, but consummate professionals often adhere to that. I know, my mother performed a 2 hour show, with a 102 fever to a full house (600 hundred people), receiving 2 standing ovations...30 seconds & 1 minute and 12 seconds, respectively.
Thanks for your comment @CreoleLiveDoll. When I critiqued her performance, I didn't know she was sick - I just knew what I heard and commented on her technique. Yes, it's tough to sing when you're sick, and in the cold. Never the less, she was still pushing way to hard (for whatever the reason), too much in the mask, and needed to open up her words more. If she changed her placement; aimed her sound back instead of so forward; used her body voice more; and pushed less, she would still have her identifiable sound - that wouldn't change. What WOULD change is that her voice would be richer, warmer, and she'd have ample power without having to put so much compression on her vocal cords! Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
I agree with a lot of what you say from a technical perspective. But... Let's not forget Idina's created a remarkable career with her vocal talent - in comparison to your..RUclips videos. Anchor that
Thanks for the not so nice comment @s0undstrulycrazy.#Idina Menzel is an incredible talent. As a vocal coach my job is to point out areas that can be improved. My intention is never to criticize, but to show how some potentially damaging, bad vocal habits can be corrected. Bel Canto, which my Lawrence Vocal System is based on, saved my voice early in my own career, when I was singing incorrectly, and I want to save others from damaging their voices.
I just saw her in concert and she nailed let it go, nailed Defying Gravity, and nailed everything else. Too bad when you are as amazing as she is, you can’t have a single slightly off day without someone tearing you down. She was in Wicked 15 years ago and she still slays it. She’s incredible.
Ok, this is Idina’s style. She typically sings POP MUSIC, NOT CLASSICAL. Do you not understand how pop music works?? Her voice is beautiful and fine the way it is. She isn’t flat anywhere and she doesn’t have to push bc she has sang notes that are much more challenging for her voice. Good lord. Go listen to Ariana Grande, I bet you’ll hate her, too. Good day.
To be fair, Idina was singing in 20 degree weather. I've been taking vocal lessons since I was 13, I'm 28 now. I have sung in many different weather conditions and I have to tell you it is very hard to keep your tone strong and steady in a round voice with full support from your diaphragm in the temperatures she was in that night. The air was very dry and very cold over there that night, which contributed to very dry vocal chords causing the diaphragm work harder and her voice to be very scratchy. I've seen her perform live, and she is very on top of things.
TheNancyc1 I agree with you that it's really difficult to sing outdoors in cold, or hot weather, and she had a lot of challenges. Probably couldn't hear herself well either. But my comments were about HOW she was singing -- pushing too hard among other things -- not really taking into consideration why she may have been singing too hard. I was using her technique as an example of the mechanics of why she had trouble hitting her big high note and got really scratchy from too much compression on the cords. Thanks for your comment! Cheers, Beth Lawrence
Ok I know I'm posting this WAY after this video was posted, but I found some serious problems with this video. Number one, you are only looking at Idina's performance from the perspective of your interesting style of coaching. To be fair, Idina trained at the NYU Tisch School of the Arts, one of the most prestigious performing arts schools on the planet, which (correct me if I'm wrong) you did not. Also, Idina's approach through the mask is an approach commonly taught by many voice PROFFESORS. I also know through personal experience that your method is not nearly as good as that of hers. Before I got with an incredible vocal coach who taught me to sing through the mask, I was uncomfortable singing a C4. Since using her approach, I can now sing an A4 without hurting my voice in the slightest. I know this may have come across a tad bit aggressive, but I am open to conversation.
@Jeremy Kohler - I appreciate your comment. However if you'd like to read my story you'd find that early in my career my voice was wrecked by a very popular vocal method that advocates pushing into the mask and too much compression on the vocal cords. Once I found the concepts of Bel Canto I never, ever had another vocal problem. And that is after having NODULES 3 TIMES IN 3 YEARS with the 'other' method. So anything I teach is coming directly from my own success, and that of countless students who have gotten rid of NODES naturally, simply by learning to sing correctly. Here's my story if you're interested: www.allaboutvoice.com/how-bel-canto-saved-my-career.html
.......maybe you should try and "coach" her on a performance that's not outside in the middle of Times Square when it's below freezing outside and it was literally snowing. That's probably causing a lot of these problems, not exactly the fairest performance to judge.
Thanks for the comment Cameron V . You're absolutely right. Kudos to her for singing live, out in the cold. And when you sing outside you always have challenges with hearing yourself correctly. This video/audio was initially a part of my Voicegram Newsletter, and I mentioned all these challenges in the newsletter. I will include them in the video description. All that said, I stick to my coaching comments because she truly would benefit from opening up her pronunciation; use body placement; get the sound less forward; connect with her lyric; and release the voice - not push so hard. #Idina Menzel is a marvelous singer, but even the best singer needs tweaking now and then. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, AllAboutVoice.com
I do agree that there were some SMALL & MINOR constructive criticisms that could've been made. But taking a song that was made for HER and ripping it apart and chewing her apart and stating your opinions about, not just a singer but, an actress that has been nominated for 13 awards and won 4 of them, about someone who has been actively performaning since 1995 is wrong. I'd like to see the awards and/or the degrees you have in "vocal coaching". Also, most of this song she's belting. She's a belter. That's her thing. It's not meant for everyone to sing the same. So millions of people admire her for her singing, and by the looks of the comments on this video, you have upset many people. This video should he taken down, because at sort this is inappropriate of you to do something like this to a grown professional adult.
Jvon Halbert - Thanks for your comment. My intention is never to criticize, but to show by example how someone can sing better. Yes, she's a belter, and when you are pushing your voice too hard, as she was doing in this song, you can see what happens! You can't sustain your upper middle, and like she demonstrated, too much compression on her vocal cords caused her to miss her 'money' note and have a very 'shredded' scratchy tone. I stand by my comments because I used to sing just like #Idina Menzel early in my career, and because of belting incorrectly I got nodules on my vocal cords 3 times in 3 years! I don't want that to happen to anyone else! Once I learned Bel Canto singing, I NEVER had another vocal problem, and continued to sing in all the same styles I always did -- just BETTER, and with a healthy voice. #Idina Menzel is a wonderful talent, but many talented people get into vocal trouble -- like Adele for instance and many more. I want people to protect their voices, while maintaining a healthy, unique voice. I'm not in the business of 'chewing people apart'. I want to build people up and give them solutions for their vocal problems because I know firsthand how awful that can be. If you want to see my credentials please go here: bethlawrencemusic.com. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
Beth Lawrence Now that you explain your past experiences with bad vocal history, it makes sense why you would want to help others. But do it to people who are just starting out, people who don't have a career yet. Not to people who have had one for more than 10 years now. And mentioning Adele did she get, not one but, 2 videos from you correcting her singing? I think if i were in Idina's shoes, i would really wonder why you just singled her out? Because if you say you want to help people so that they don't destroy their voices, you should do it to everyone who needs it not just Ms.Menzel. You just singling her out makes it in a sense bullying, but i completely understand that those weren't your intentions. But, it seems rude in a sense. Also, I'd like to apologize if my tone was a bit inappropriate. This just really upset me that you were only pointing out her.
Jvon Halbert This was the first in my series 'If I Were Your Vocal Coach'. I started with Idina Menzel because she had just had the misfortunate performance on New Year's Eve, THEN, a couple weeks later she sang at the SuperBowl, so it was a perfect follow up. So I was not 'singling' her out, it just happened that she was in the news. I will be commenting on others as I continue with my series. I have gotten so many comments, and it's always good to start a conversation in the community, even if I seem to have ruffled some feathers, which was not intended! Cheers, Beth Lawrence
My word! At least know how to say her name!!! Also, your voice was not extremely pleasing. I think Idina is doing just fine. You may want to seek a vocal coach tho... Couldn't hurt....
The interesting thing that this person keeps commenting on is the fact that Idina is singing from her face, i.e. her nose cause her voice to be kinda high pitch, but she's a broadway performer. That how almost all Broadway performers sing. Even some great singers like DIana DeGarmo who start out singing outside of theatre and then move over to Broadway sing through their nose because they need to project their voice to be heard throughout the theatre. Singing in New York during the Winter in the middle of the night while sick can cause anyone to mess up, but glad you chose to critique and analyze this performance not while she's at her best casue what fun would that be.
+Meffs Sugi Thanks for the comment. I DID also give feedback on her performance of the National Anthem, subsequent to this performance, so check my comments on that. Yes, there's a very forward placement 'Broadway' style currently, but I don't agree that forward placement equals projection. If anything, placement should be in the body for maximum power - just take a look at the huge voices in opera, and they most certainly don't 'sing through their nose' as you say. What about Audra McDonald, Barbara Cook and Brian Michael Stokes? Gorgeous, warm, round, powerful voices, -- not in the nose! Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
Matthew Sugimoto yes I found that interesting because I was watching a tutorial on how to sing let it go and it suggested singing more with the sound in the face so that you could get more of that belty Elsa sound
Grayson Brown - you're right, no one SHOULD sing a song exactly the same each time, because if you're in touch with the emotion of the song, it will change, as will your vocal interpretation dependent on the feeling you're putting into it. Although your comment was rather mean-spirited, I will say that I DO want attention about my Lawrence Vocal System. I want everyone to have a healthy voice FOR LIFE, and my coaching comments for Idina Menzel addressed her singing too hard, and putting too much compression on her vocal cords. That's how I got nodules years ago, until I learned to sing correctly. I simply point out vocal habits that are damaging to the voice, so that others won't make the mistakes that I did. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
You just need to stop ... Idina is a famous Broadway star and has worked on years and years of technique. How has she preformed in a musical every night and not received nodes ... That's right, because u r being ignorant. This song is difficult to sing and I bet you couldnt sing it half as well as her. (Btw sorry for being so rude but Idina is my idol and I feel that she has wonderful technique and I know because I sing opera and want to be on Broadway and I have been working on technique for 2 years so I do know what I am talking about)
You have no idea what you`re talking about !! If you just say open it up" and "keep it in the body" you are not coaching! What are your scientific explanation to this?? In addition, your sound it`s much more flat than her sound!!! Please change job...
DeliCanto - thanks for the suggestions (except for the one to change jobs!). This was the first in my mock coaching sessions and I will add more description and information on subsequent 'mock' coaching sessions. Of course, when I'm coaching in person we stop and work on each issue until it's cleared up. These are just very general overviews, not in depth coaching sessions because obviously I can't directly work with the client, so I have to simply comment on the vocal performance. If you want a better explanation of what I'm talking about, please feel free to look at my other impromptu videos on my Channel. These are 'Tips', not courses on singing, please remember. Anyone who wants to know more can go to my website. allaboutvoice.com And if you don't agree with my teaching method based in Bel Canto (which saved my voice years ago), then no worries, there are lots of vocal coaches who offer their own singing systems to choose from! Cheers, Beth Lawrence
Antonietta D'Elia Actually she knows exactly what she’s talking about. And she handled her response to your comment very maturely. As a person who has sung and performed professionally for the last 5 years, I understand exactly what she’s talking about when she says "open it up”, and keep it in the body”, and she actually wasn’t flat at all. I guess you just don’t understand what proper singing sounds like yet. The scientific explanation might be that when you sing from your diaphragm rather than your throat and open up your soft pallet when you sing, your voice kind of naturally refrains from straining and sounding splotchy. I hope this has cleared everything up for you
Antonietta D'Elia and actually after just listening to all of your singing videos on your channel I can assure you that you had little to no room to say what you did. To tell her she sounded flat when you yourself sing completely from the throat and with no breath support at all.
Idina Menzel, "If I were your vocal coach." Is this your attempt to apply for a position as her coach? If you are going to criticize her perhaps you at least listen to how she is introduced. Her name is pronounced "Ahdeenah" NOT "EDINAH." And the way you are talking to her... EDINAH MENZEL, you can have a healthy voice for life if you follow the Lawrence Vocal System "MY SYSTEM" because obviously your coach is not working for you. So listen to me because I am better and really want to help you. DON'T SAY THIS IS NOT ABOUT HER. YOU SPECIFICALLY STATED "Some bad habits that she's developed." How about this, if she wants your advice, her people will contact you. It seems that you either really cant stand her and are using your perceived power to humiliate her or that you really think you are trying to help her and are hoping she will call you because you are the answer to making her career even bigger.
+Ida k Okay, think about this one. Are you being any better of a person? This is emotionally charged and I get you "like" Idina but we can all use opportunities to teach each other. Although everything depends on how it is perceived.
Thanks for the comment @Cheyenne Fernald. Yes, she had a lot of challenges to sing in the cold, dry air, and 'Let It Go' is certainly a tough song -- most of it sung in the upper middle range. I still stick by my assessment that despite all the challenges, and perhaps because of those challenges, she was singing too hard - and THAT'S what caused her to crack. I'm not attacking her, simply using her performance as an example. And yes, anytime anyone has the guts to sing live these days, rather than choose the safe route of lipsynching -- I give them great credit! Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
Hi Crystal J. Leotaud . Yes, if she OPENED UP and released her voice through the body she'd get huge power, but without all the effort. She's in danger of hurting her voice if she continues singing the way she is now. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
"Live performance at Radio City Music Hall" Why do you have to pick someone out to "critique" when you are capable of singing the wrong and right keys yourself? Of course she's pushing, of course she is nasal, ITS FREEZING. Why did you not chose any of the hundreds of other live performances she has done? Just curious. I just feel bad for this girl. But enjoyed looking into who she is... Apparently she is coming to my state so I will see about seeing her and I will follow up. But the other live performances I just went through seem amazing. And she always sings live. She's apparently a Broadway star who has won numerous awards including a Tony. So again, just wondered why you would use this one performance were her vocal cords are probably frozen... "She's all one dimensional ---" Have you heard her other vocals? The fact that you picked this performance to focus on her "bad habits" ....well, it just seems unprofessional and mean. Search youtube, there is so much out there and she sounds nothing like this performance. Guaranteed if you or I were in ridged cold we would get a "critique" too. Just seems harsh. Perhaps you will reconsider. Have a beautiful day.
s0undstrulycrazy I know! My mistake. I've had lots of people point that out to me, so thanks for your input. I have heard her name pronounced so many different ways, but I've corrected that on my latest video with feedback on her National Anthem performance.
I've seen this with other stars. After they "make it", they start compromising, and sing it SO TOTALLY different than what got them famous in the first place!!?? I will give her that she is singing it ALL the time, and it must be getting very old and tiring.
I like this critique here , but it's hilarious because we all know she knows how to sing very well. As a singer myself, we all know every performance/song isn't going to be perfect.
News Flash! #Idina Menzel is going to sing the #National Anthem LIVE at the #Superbowl! Broadway stars are used to singing live nightly, but how refreshing it is to have someone actually SING live, rather than take the safe route of lip syncing. She muffed her performance on New Year's Eve, (see my mock coaching session on that performance - ruclips.net/video/nqIyeTAeuic/видео.html) so what a brave move for her to go for it live. Look for my 'If I Were Your Vocal Coach' session after her 'Banner' performance. Go Idina!
Beth, I agree with you on many issues as a working singer myself, but sometimes we just don't know if she is in as much danger as we might think. All we have to go by is the sound. In other words, we aren't that singer. There are singers who can chest belt, scream out, glottal compress and do all those more riskier vocal productions all night long and never lose their voices. It depends on the singer. But I agree that at times it could have been more restrained. Thanks for the analysis. It never hurts to revisit these issues.
+VIDEOHEREBOB Thanks for the comment. While I agree that all voices are different, one thing still remains the same -- continued bad habits over time, especially when extremely straining the vocal cords, will resort in damage or compensatory vocal patterns that will begin to impair vocal health. I experienced it myself, and in seeing it in others for so many years, I know that it will eventually catch up with you in time -- yes, depending on the person, the voice, and how much the voice is being used. Thank you for taking the time to comment @Videoherebob! Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
First of all, Ideena, not Ideyena. Second of all, the way Idina is singing is the way she is SUPPOSED to be singing. Yes, she's using her head voice and not her chest voice; but that is, again, how she's supposed to sing this song and how her voice is unique. She is also SUPPOSED to jump up to the note; it's kinda how the song was written. And, I wouldn't be critiquing a professional singer/actor if you can't sing yourself. As a side note, poor woman is probably sick from it being in New York in the winter! She was also in the middle of Christmas song covers and fame over Frozen.
I think a lot of the way you demonstrate the singing wouldn't work for Elsa. Another aspect of this song was Idina was playing a character, it's not just a radio pop song.
Poor Idina was overworked and tired. This was not a fair performance to critic. She is an amazing performer and had a off night. It happens to be best of them.
+Kim Sampson - I totally understand about having a tired voice, but as a listener, I didn't know that she was tired or sick. All I know is what I hear, and even if she was tired, that is no reason for her to be pushing her voice so hard, which led to her vocal raspiness and not being able to sustain her big 'money' note. I chose this performance because of the above, not because it was a 'bad' performance. Please see my feedback on her 'National Anthem' performance when she was in good voice! Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
Beth, I understand your point about thinking low when singing high so as not to strain, but the whole nasal thing...that's her style. I've seen alot of other singers, especially the new kids, sing through their mask. It's a style. And we, as singers, all have pitch problems when we're sick. When you say she's too hard, did you think that maybe she's emoting? Ok so the last note was a big "ouch". Understood. Every song should not sound like a Broadway tune. This song in particular, yes. And she's singing live and in the cold. What a way to nitpick and critcize. But if you want to nitpick, I heard a couple of crows there from you when you were giving an example. Please do everyone a favor and post some videos of you singing live, night after night, outside, and while you're sick. Unless someone is constantly, seriously pitchy, I keep my comments to myself. Because everyone has a bad day. And every one has their own style. It's a matter of taste. I've been singing for 40+ years, with vocal lessons from the best, Don and Marty Lawrence, Katie Agresta, Gerry Janssen, and several others. I have horrible days when my body is tired. And tell you what, that "raspiness"??? I wish I could have that in certain songs that I sing, esp. when singing rock tunes. Can't sound pretty all the time and I don't want to. But you know what they say, Those who can't do, teach. Which is why I don't teach.
Thanks for your comments +Dee DePalma even though some of them weren't very nice. Style and technique are not the same thing. Whether a person is sick, singing outside, just had sad news -- once you step onstage, your audience doesn't know this. I didn't know that she was sick when I heard this performance. The point is - it doesn't matter what CAUSED her to push too hard - she was pushing too hard and the result of too much compression on the vocal cords caused her issues in that performance. That's all. It's a perfect example of cause and effect - push too hard and you'll have trouble with your voice. I have posted videos of me singing inside and out. Have you seen them??? I had a career that had me singing outside in heat, cold, wind -- yes, those are challenging gigs. Since I learned Bel Canto singing I have never had a problem with my voice no matter how long I sang, or what conditions. And, I am STILL gigging live. It bothers me when someone uses the 'Those who can't do - teach.' I am a working singer/songwriter with my own career. But I started teaching years ago so that others wouldn't experience the wrecked voice and nodules I had early in my career. I consider teaching a PRIVILEGE that I don't take lightly. And, as a service to others it is incredibly fulfilling to me. If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't take the time and effort to post these short, informational videos. I believe that if I have found something that helped me in my life, I would like to share it with others, so that they can be helped too. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, bethlawrencemusic.com
Beth, have you "heard" all your criticism? And you're saying that I'm not being nice? All I hear is critique. That's pretty unfair. I truly appreciate people's voices, if they can sing. I don't use the "American Idol" standard of "pitchy" because every once in awhile, even the best singers are pitchy or have an off day because of illness. And if you've heard Idina Menzel sing in the past, you would have known she was dealing with a cold. And, as you well know, other signed vocalists won't even do their song in the "record key" when singing live. Always a step down.Yet, all I hear is "ouch, that was nasally" or "oooo, that was pitchy"...and I hear this from so-called singers who even "Shatner" their songs or sound like Ethel Merman when singing a Joan Jett tune. And Idina did it in the original key, even though she was ill. I don't appreciate ANYONE critiquing a famous singer, it almost sounds like sour grapes. They have a record deal for a reason. Maybe it's not our cup of tea, but different strokes for different folks. When people put down a singer, I always say, "Well, that's why they're famous, and we're not. I've never considered myself a great singer. Yet I receive many accolades, but I also get alot of critique. If they have a point, I ask them to sing it for me, to see how they would do it. And if it sounds good, then it's duly noted. If not, then I know where it comes from. I always think I can do better. ALWAYS. The day you think you're the best thing since sliced bread is the day you'll stop improving your skills. Let me ask you this, seriously. What is the reason that you are tearing Idina Menzel's singing. What's the point of it? To get people to become your students? Why don't you post a video of you singing the same song...the way that you would do it, and let us all be the judge? And that way, you can show people that you are a teacher worth taking vocal lessons from.
Btw, what part of my post wasn't very nice? The part where I criticized you singing a couple of lines? I'm not the one criticizing a famous singer's voice. Hmmmm....
Jesus nasality has to do with soft palate, not with "putting things down in the body" (idk what that means).... what does ancor the sound even mean? You have a good ear for this, but your terms are SO wrong...
The way I explain it is the way I think people can most conceptually 'get it'. Of course I can't explain all the mechanics in a few minutes. That's why, if people find value in my observations they are free to read more about my method; take my online courses or buy my book which details the Lawrence Vocal System. I've had nodes before I learned the Bel Canto concepts and I hope to spare people from wrecking their voice with incorrect technique.
Gustavo Daniele Wow, thank you so much for the nice comment! I have gotten a lot of strong opinions and comments from people (I'm glad I started a dialog though!) that it's so nice to hear a positive comment! Cheers, Beth Lawrence, bethlawrencemusic.com
+Beth Lawrence most people feel offended because you point out their idol flaws, but you do it on a constructive and polite way! I'd love to see a Christina Aguilera analysis from you.: )
She was great in Wicked my favorite!) and other earlier shows, but too much belting lately. I've seen her 3 times (and going again next Tuesday) and love her, but would like to hear her pull back and save the big belt "money notes" for the end and wow people instead of always belting. I was shocked when I heard her belt Silent Night. Not so "silent." lol She's fantastic and just want her to have longevity in her career and not hurt herself. Sometimes she really does look like she's pushing, just from her facial expressions alone and how it sounds. Should take let it go down 1/2 step. She said she would have if she knew it was going to be a hit, and have to sing it all the time!
Linda Abbott I really appreciate your comment -- so right on. I've gotten a lot of flack for my 'mock coaching session', but I, too, am concerned that she is getting into some bad habits and I wanted others to see and hear the manifestation of too much belting, all the time, especially through the upper middle.. Like I said, I got nodes several times early in my career because I was pushing too hard -- just like she is doing lately and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Yes, she needs to get back to her emotional voice -- where she has dynamics and feeling in her singing, rather than just shear volume. All that said, she has a wonderful instrument but she needs to take care of it and make a few tweaks to make sure that she doesn't lose the great voice she has. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com BTW, she could always lower the key of 'Let It Go' and no one would know the difference!
You do know that Idina Menzel trained at the Tisch School of Arts, probably one of the best performing arts schools in the country. Trust me, she knows what she's doing. Back in 03 to like 06, she performed Wicked at least six to seven times a week for 3 years straight. That would destroy anyone's voice no matter how good their technique is. Her voice is just exhausted, and there's nothing she can do. She didn't necessarily do anything wrong in this song, it's how she always sings it, she just couldn't handle it because of that tiredness she's probably performing 12 times a in concerts, so she really just needs to slow down.
It's nice someone cares to show others what to avoid. I too like Idina very much, however the high pitch/belting is a turn off for me,. also, I hope she will use her voice better, no reason to end up like Julie Andrews...
I don’t understand why people are so sensitive about this video. Insulting this lady just because you don’t agree her opinion is just so immature. It’s just sad that people are being mean when she was just trying to give her two-cents of advice. I’m trying to learn how to improve my singing voice, and sometimes it frustrates me that I swerve back to singing through my nose. I don’t want that but I’m trying to learn and practice different techniques. Anyway, thank you for the pointers in this video Ms Beth. God bless you.
But I totally see where you're coming from! I'd love for to have a listen to my versions of this song (one live and one studio) and maybe give me some pointers? Thanks!
Can you post it here Daniel Bowyer ? That might be fun, to 'coach' your performance on this song. If not, post it on youtube and I'll make a coaching 'comment'. I'd be glad to do that. Cheers, Beth Lawrence allaboutvoice.com
You talk about how she thinks up But this song is a lot higher than a lot of the other songs she sings. She probably felt flat. She was flat on some parts and she put too high if riffs to save it.
I like how your critique of her singing is immediately followed by a worse example of you singing the song that's off pitch. At least your not "in your mask" or as professionals refer to it, your head voice.
You have the right idea, but the terms you use are not clear to people with no vocal training. Saying things like "down in the body" doesn't mean anything to the average person. If you're going to talk about body placement, be clear and scientific about it. For example, don't take shallow breaths into the chest. (Don't suck breath in, invite it in) Raise the soft palate and relax the jaw. Don't force notes by clenching your muscles. Open the mouth and throat and let the breath do the work. You said "anchor" tons of times but you never explained how that relates to breath support.
Thanks Pam Morita , glad you found it valuable. #idinamenzel is really gifted, but she should really address some of the bad vocal habits she's fallen into before she damages her voice. That's why I did this video "If I Were Your Coach….." Cheers, Beth Lawrence, AllAboutVoice.com
Good grief, it's actually kind of embarrassing how rude everyone is being to this lady. You'd think you were dealing with defensive fan girls. She has an opinion, just like you, but at least she's been kind about it and hasn't risen to any ugly bait. I love Idina as well, but as a vocalist myself, I'm always open to listening to different techniques. Beth Lawrence thank you for taking the time for making the video and being a classy lady.
CBelle09 You are incredibly kind, thank you! I, too, have been very surprised at many of the unkind comments I've received, but I'm glad that this video has started a spirited conversation about vocal health. As I've said, my intention is not to criticize, but to point out bad vocal habits that can, and will cause vocal problems down the road. I've been there, and I was lucky enough to find a Mentor who gave me the right technique to save my voice and keep it healthy for my entire career and beyond. I want that same thing for everybody. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
+CBelle09 I agree people should not be rude but to point out why this was wrong. +Beth Lawrence just needs to rethink how she delivered this message. If the tables were turned she would not appreciate it and many people would defend her. That's what people should do... Step up and express why something is not right but NEVER aims it at the person but at the subject. At least the best way in which a person can.
Some are being mean spirited, yes, but try to help those who don't know anything about singing. This is not the way to get people to take vocal lessons from Beth. There should not be any name calling...I'm not a big Idina follower, and I may or may not like her voice, but she's got some pipes, she's done B'way...it's not her first rodeo. I feel bad when anyone calls out singers who may have an off night, especially when they're always on point. I've seen so many artists out there "lose it", but that's one night. Or one song. Who knows if they even had time to warm up. Beth, for your own marketing sake, don't put anyone down. You turn people off that way. You want business, then put your own video with you singing and show what and what not to do.
Awesome coaching Beth.....It was so obvious to hear what she was doing once you explained it as it was happening. I thought this was an invaluable lesson for singers to hear this critique. Thanks, you do a great job.
I'm so glad it was helpful. It really does exemplify the Lawrence Vocal System of 'RELEASE' don't 'PUSH', doesn't it? My best to you @Fred Montana! Cheers, Beth Lawrence allaboutvoice.com
I must say that you have made some very good points. Of course you will get some bad comments from people who are blinded by their loyalty to her to see that she is human and she can make mistakes too. It's common for singers after a while to make more mistakes because they have gotten comfortable with their music they no longer pay attention to the structure of the music and put their own spin on it. I get what you are saying though, she did use her head voice in a song that really required her to use her chest more. But I've also noticed that when someone is very nervous that they tend to switch to their "default voice" which it seems her's is her head voice. I personally love Idina but again she is human and like the rest of us makes mistakes. No matter how famous you are or become it never hurts to continue working to better your voice
I appreciate your support and comments @highgreenbunny! Yes, by commenting on Idina Menzel's performance I really touched a nerve with her fans. As I've noted, she has an amazing voice, but as you noted, all singers need to continually work on recognizing any bad habits that creep into their technique. She had a bad night, but regardless of the situation, I was commenting on how her technique manifested so that others could understand that pushing too hard and pushing the sound too far into the mask can result in a shredded voice and inability to hit sustainable high notes. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
You should do a little bit more research on Bel Canto. It is not effective to teach in the style of bel canto over a youtube video. you keep saying "in the body" and "use the body". Can you actually explain what that means and how to do it, or demonstrate how to do it? bel canto isn't some master formula or technique to singing, it is actually a FORM of TEACHING. It is when the teacher directs the student step by step, what to do with their body and in what areas of their body. and $147 for singing lessons? not even the masters charge that.
+Justin McDaniel Thanks for your comments, I understand your concerns. Obviously, one to one, face to face instruction is always the best way to learn, or in a group where you can learn from others. These short, general videos are meant to give the basic concepts of the Lawrence Vocal System. If someone finds them valuable, then they will seek more information either from me, or from a teacher of Bel Canto. I agree with you --I wouldn't expect to watch a 10 minute video on how to paint and expect to be able to paint a masterpiece! I would seek additional instruction if interested. I am giving an intro to the basic concepts so that people can learn more if they wish to. I have lots of videos that give the basics that people can learn from, free, on youtube. Even asking the question 'what does it mean to 'sing in the body' is a great first step! My intention is to help people have a healthy voice. I learned to sing incorrectly from a well-meaning teacher at the beginning of my career and it wrecked my voice until I found Giuseppe Balestrieri who taught me Bel Canto. I want to share what I learned from him. The more people I can introduce to those concepts, the less vocal frustration and injury there will be. Yes, I have created two online video courses "Reboot Your Singing Voice - Level 1 & 2" specifically to teach the basics to folks who can't invest $147 an hour to learn the basics that they need. I also offer scholarships and workshops on a 'donation basis' - so I try to help wherever I can. You should also investigate what vocal coaches charge -- many charge much more than I do! My best to you, Cheers, Beth Lawrence
''I'm freeee! Let it-'' -- No! don't let it go, anchor it in the body! 5:28 xD Nice video! I'm not a singer but it seems to me that Idina is just a tense performer. She doesn't really let go. Wheras in the studio, she is able to really relax herself. I know she has been doing it for years, but still. Tensing up could've become a bad habit. Again, I'm not a singer.
To everyone who's being incredibly rude to Beth, you really need to chill. She's not being malicious towards Idina or defaming her as a person. She's simply doing what a vocal coach does - giving tips and analyzing her voice. As a singer and performer myself, I actually found some of her notes and tips very insightful and helpful. Some that I may recognize in my own voice and can use to help keep my voice healthy. Anyone with ears can tell this wasn't Idina's best performance.The conditions in which she was singing were terrible. Freezing cold weather is not the best environment for a singer. Idina has not had the best of luck with singing this song live but she puts on a brave face and sings it wonderfully. I love Idina so much, she's one of my favorite singers and idols. However, I know that she could improve a lot more on her technique. So calm down, no one's insulting anyone's idol or being rude. Idina is still going to be singing somewhere so just chill. If you've got an opinion, don't be rude. There's a way you can say something and not be rude about it. Great job, Beth! I enjoyed the video.
+Joey Evans I really appreciate your NICE comments, thank you! My hope is that people will hear and understand what happens when you push your voice too hard -- so that no one will damage their voices. Thanks for understanding that my intention was not to be hurtful to #Idinamenzel, but to use her performance (yes - LIVE in terrible conditions -- good for her!) to demonstrate how even a Pro can get vocally out of alignment. We all need tweaking no matter what level we are as performers. My best to you @Joey Evans! Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
well i know that it's been like 3-4 years ago, but no defense yes she's pushing her voice a lot and stretching the larynx and this is not opera love the way you explain the technique even though i didn't understand that much but, hope that you can approach some new modern genres of music! if you read my cmt i appreciate that
This was really helpful, thank you for posting! I've been listening to Idina for years as a big fan of Rent and it's always bothered me how much she pushes and forces her voice, but I thought it was just me since everyone else seems to love it. I think you did a nice job here explaining some of the issues of technique. It's funny to hear her singing the words let it go in the most stained and unrelaxed way. I guess she was more focused on the performance than the song in this case, which is quite understandable but still a shame as it squashed all the power and beauty, in my opinion. In her defense, I do think that all of the things you mention here were done much better in the original recording of Let it Go for the film. I would be very interested to hear you do a compare/contrast of that performance of hers with this one! Thanks again!
Oh yeah because it’s not like Idina’s recording did better than Demi Lovato’s. Making it the first time that the original out sold the pop version. 👀 Oh wait
Just want to tell you-you said her name wrong you put the stress on the second I when it is supposed to be on the first and second of all her voice changed over the years so of course, she forced the high note but overall I bet she is a better singer than you thank you very much and I bet I am a better singer than you so whatever
It's nice that you're defending your idol @lily Mancini. Yes, Idina Menzel is fantastic and has a great career. But in my opinion, her voice could be warmer; less pushy; more in the body and less in the nose. Even people at the top of their career need to 'tune' their instrument and keep vigilant about letting bad habits creep in. I'm sure Ms. Menzel has a good vocal coach, but I hear in her voice too much compression on the vocal cords; placement in the nose; too forward a presentation; and a brittle tone. That's not to say she doesn't have a wonderful voice, but as a vocal coach, my job is to promote what is good and healthy, and point out what could be improved upon. If you love her voice as it is, great! Everyone has different taste. BTW, I continually had nodules on my vocal cords early in my career until I found Bel Canto - since that day I have NEVER had another problem with my voice, so I know what works and what doesn't from personal experience. Cheers, Beth allaboutvoice.com
+Valerie Ng +Cheyenne Fernald +beth lawrence What is your definition of constructive? These comments were not constructive. I posted some information above which will hopefully explain this better. Ms. Lawrence just didn't realize the extent to the criticism she was placing on this performer. Although she claims that her "intent" was to help... Her words clearly do not align with that message. Example... She could have presented the message differently with better and less hurtful results; "Although this performer has strong skills, here are examples and reasons NOT to sing when (a) you have a cold, (b) your body temperature is dropping or your face is numb from the severity of the cold weather, (c) etc... But instead there are comments such as "But in my opinion, her voice could be warmer; less pushy; more in the body and less in the nose" is what makes this a subjective opinion. Why??? It's obvious... Not to mention that telling someone or describing something without a solution is not constructive. Not to mention it sounds arrogant. The answer is obvious... (COMMENT) But instead there are comments such as "But in my opinion, her voice could be warmer; less pushy; more in the body and less in the nose" (REPLY) Obviously, her voice could be warmer, less pushy, and less in the nose; if only her nose wasn't drippy and stuffed, if only her body temperature was not falling, and if only her face/ears/etc... were not numb from the freezing weather. That's like saying I am giving constructive feedback to the lady who didn't win the race... "your not fast enough, you stumbled a lot, and you didn't keep a steady pace." Oh wait I forgot to mention that she still finished the race, but her prosthetic leg strap came lose so she did the best she could in the circumstances she was in. I hope this makes sense. Ms. Lawrence just needs to present her "lessons" in a different way. Now there are many reasons that another professional could "critique" Ms. Lawrence's voice, but there is NO NEED to. If they truly want to help they can do it in a very different way.
+Kate Ty Thank you for your comments! You write very well and are funny, too. To respond: I did not mean for my tone to be harsh or critical. I still stand by my comments - specifically to address the one you picked out: "But in my opinion, her voice could be warmer; less pushy; more in the body and less in the nose". When someone pushes their sound too much in the mask, it can create a very pinchy, nasal sound that 'in my opinion' is not very pleasant. Idina is in constant belt in this song, especially in her upper middle range. Early in my career, I used to sing like that, and I got nodes 3 times in 3 years because of too much compression on my vocal cords. 'In my opinion', she needs to back off and not push so much. I personally find that when a singer anchors the sound in the body, rather than placing the sound in the mask, the ability to hit high notes and support the tone is much more successful. All that being said, even in horrible outdoor conditions like she faced, there shouldn't have been any effect on her technique caused by the weather. I've done many outdoor gigs in cold weather and basically, yes, your vocal cords can get dried out, your face is frozen, and it's no fun. But your good technique still remains despite the external challenges. I said right at the top that she was amazing to sing live at all, even if the weather had been great. That's commendable in these days when no one dares to sing live. She's a wonderful, successful singer. I don't dispute that. I just know that IN THIS PERFORMANCE - she was not singing well and most all of her glitches were due to pushing too hard and singing with too forward a placement. THAT'S what I wanted to point out -- not to bash her just for bashing sake, of course. Her performance was a good example of some bad habits that can cause vocal damage. I know that firsthand. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, All About Voice
Thank you for your reply. I understand that wanted to point out things that could be harmful to the vocal cords. I am not disputing that. What I hoped you would see is that many people tend to use their "right" to freedom of speech or professional advantage to use others as a means to justify or promote something (perhaps good for many) but hurtful to others. I guess my point is; regardless of the intent, if she saw this it would be hurtful. Why? Because she already knows what she did wrong and having to relive it could be hurtful. I get we could say, "put your big girl panties on and "let it go" but the bottom line is how much are we willing to help others at the expense of another? This is not just about Idina; point me to the link were others were doing this to you and I will communicate the same way to them. I guarantee that you can get a "willing" participant who would like to be used as an educational tool or even come up with another creative way to express your expertise. :o) What do you think? Have a blessed day, Kate
+Kate Ty Thanks for all your comments. I take your feedback about making my 'tone' of coaching a bit less 'hurtful' (in your opinion) to heart. It never was my intention to be hurtful in anyway. This was the first 'coaching' session video I did with a 'celebrity' and I may have been too passionate about my feedback! Please watch the second 'mock coaching' session I did with Idina, and you'll see that whatever I comment on, I also demonstrate,, so that everyone can hear how the change in technique affects the sound. ruclips.net/video/rgSWx4THhls/видео.html I also point out where she is singing beautifully! Cheers, Beth Lawrence
Mary46033 Thanks for taking the time to comment. My intention is never to criticize or insult anyone; but to help people understand that certain mechanics of singing create certain results, and #Idina Menzel's performance demonstrates what happens when you push too hard. That she was singing live was a tribute to her, especially in those difficult conditions. But for whatever the reasons; she was over singing and got into vocal trouble. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
I think she tries to be a soprano instead of a mezzo; she's got a solid and beautiful voice, just a shit performance, dog move to critic on, everyone has shit days.
U intentionally sounded bad cuz its a mocking video right？Ur demonstration does not sound good. What u do is lowering larynx... and not even in a correct(natural) way.... There is nothing wrong with high placement(mask), her problem was that she had tensions going on her neck or maybe high larynx so that she sounded "jammed into nose", it was not even a good masked sound. (This is one of her worst live I guess)Your notes are just more unpleasant then hers cuz they are flat and very "un-projected", sounded like they are produced by children who mimic opera singing. Singing flat is what usually happens when u lower your larynx in a wrong way to sound "big or grounded" U might consider developing your mask. LOL. What you described as "mask" and what you do when u tried to mimic her is not proper mask singing. A correct mask sounds incredibly powerful, not "jammed".
Dear oh dear, where to start... It's rather telling that you mispronounce her name because it reveals a lack of knowledge about this performer - her talent and accomplishments - which means that your comments about her 'styling' at the start and about certain other vocal moments throughout the performance miss the point of who she is as a performer. She may not be your 'cup of tea' but to criticize her choices is very dangerous given how accomplished she is as an originator of iconic Broadway roles, Tony award winner, major recording artist and concert performer etc.). I think we must acknowledge that hers is not a 'legitimate' sound, it is a more contemporary and brighter pop/broadway belt. I do agree with you that in certain scenarios - a difficult singing scenario such as this one - a little more classical technique at certain points in this song would give her a little more insurance. The issue for her though is that this technique would undoubtedly colour her sound in ways that may not necessarily be desired. Broadway styles run the range from highly legitimate to rock and roll, and combinations of both including rasp and twang and nasal and character sounds. It is not a genre that promotes one single 'ideal' sound of beautiful singing, which in fact is what many of us like about it. Leave the perfect technique to the opera house and enjoy Idina, trip-ups and all. You just don't reach her level in a very competitive field by playing it safe.
Blubble68 Thanks, a very well written comment. I will respond to your points. Yes, I regret the mispronunciation of Idina's name; my mistake. I chose to 'coach' her performance specifically because of 'who she is as a performer'. I want everyone one to know that no amount of accomplishments preclude a talent from dangerous vocal habits. Some of the most 'famous' singers have gotten nodes and worse because they weren't singing correctly. I wasn't criticizing her 'choices', I was commenting on her technique, which for this particular performance caused her to push her vocal cords to a point of not being able to sustain her big 'money note'. For my entire career I sang high powered R&B, and pop, and the Bel Canto technique helped me to have a healthy voicefor life while singing really tough, demanding music, that wasn't in any way classical or legitimate. While an opera-based method, Bel Canto allows you to sing any style without the covered, dark sound so often heard in legit voices. I coach my clients to cultivate their natural, unique sounding voice - not a phony, legit sound. Idina's voice is often very brittle and in her nose, so I think that her placement needs adjustment. My philosophy is in alignment with yours when it comes to perfection. No one is perfect and what must transcend technical perfection always -- is connection with your lyric and the emotion that underlies it. But, that said, a person at Idina's level, who must guard and protect her instrument, should have a solid base of technique as a firm foundation that she can rely upon to maintain her career. So really, you must have both - technique to support vocal health, and emotional connection with your music and your audience. I am hoping that Idina will not continue down the path of belting way too hard especially in her upper middle; will back off of the brutal compression she's putting on her vocal cords; and frankly, lighten up and give more depth and dimension to her singing. When you're in constant big belt mode you lose the delicacy and emotional intimacy that you need to connect with your audience when 'telling your story' through song. And again, she's a marvelous singer, but even marvelous singers need tweaking now and then to maintain health and balance in the voice. cheers, Beth Lawrence allaboutvoice.com
Linda Hewitt Thanks for taking the time to make a comment. I wasn't trying to compare myself to Idina Menzel or criticize her, but simply to show how too much compression on the vocal cords (no matter how talented the singer is!) will cause pitch problems; shredding or rough vocals; and ultimately vocal nodules if this habit is continued over time. Have you heard me sing? You might check out some of my other videos, but the great thing about youtube is that everyone can have their own opinion, but preferably without being mean about it. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
When the "student" can outsing the "coach"...😂
Id(eye)na?!?!?!?! Seriously?!?!?!?!?!
IKR!!! Tsk...
Hahahaha i can't hahah
It's hard to take a critique seriously from someone whose never heard of her. She was nominated for her first Tony in 1996 for an extremely well known show and won one in 2000 for an even better known show.
Thinking down in the body is a good idea, but you should fix your own technique before you comment on others, because your tongue is down in your throat. Furthermore, if you knew anything about vocal performance, you would realize that Idina is CHOOSING to sing nasally because that is the style of music that she is trying to portray.
Yes very true
funny how she's been on broadway multiple times and people think they somehow know more about vocal health than her.
okay but don’t come for her? she’s a professional. I don’t think one bad performance deserves critique? she has a beautiful and powerful voice
I will say that Idina does push, but it’s a choice.
Edit: Also it was CRAZY COLD that night
I understand you reasoning, but you probably picked her worst performance ever. That poor girl was in the middle of "Frozen Frenzy". was singing that song probably 12 times a day. She was also doing "If/When" on Broadway, 8 times a week. She was overworked and I think that she was just trying to push through a crazy schedule. She probably had to push because her voice was so overworked at the time. I'm sure she did not have the choice to NOT sing, so her voice was tired. Considering the situation I'm suprised she didn't end up in node surgery. Watch her sing Defying Gravity, live on Broadway. Amazing!
Agreed. Idina doesn’t even sound like Elsa in this particular recording .
Idina: Not *Id(eye)na* BUT *Id(eee)na*
Idina was really ill, as we can hear, and every singer has missed an important note, even if adhering to your vocal critique. However, I'm certain she has amazing vocal coaches. What you heard was an ill vocalist who was a bit more nasally than usual due to that. Idina has an unique vocal quality, which you deem "way down into her nose". She actually sings far less into her nose than the way you speak, but I digress.
Though I think you do have a couple of good vocal suggestions/points, totally changing Idina's signature Tony award winning sound would not be wise. I also think singing with a sore throat is not good either, and vocal rest is a must, but most times, "the show MUST go on.", and sometimes to the singer's detriment, but consummate professionals often adhere to that. I know, my mother performed a 2 hour show, with a 102 fever to a full house (600 hundred people), receiving 2 standing ovations...30 seconds & 1 minute and 12 seconds, respectively.
THANK YOU!!!!!! I totally agree! :)
Thanks for your comment @CreoleLiveDoll. When I critiqued her performance, I didn't know she was sick - I just knew what I heard and commented on her technique. Yes, it's tough to sing when you're sick, and in the cold. Never the less, she was still pushing way to hard (for whatever the reason), too much in the mask, and needed to open up her words more.
If she changed her placement; aimed her sound back instead of so forward; used her body voice more; and pushed less, she would still have her identifiable sound - that wouldn't change. What WOULD change is that her voice would be richer, warmer, and she'd have ample power without having to put so much compression on her vocal cords! Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
this vocal coach just wants idina to sound like a classical singer
3:49 yikes :\
Did you also come here from after watching Tristan Paredes' video on this video?
@emm cee - singers can sing any style they want with this old Italian method. I sing R&B/Pop, jazz and musical theater.
I agree with a lot of what you say from a technical perspective. But... Let's not forget Idina's created a remarkable career with her vocal talent - in comparison to your..RUclips videos. Anchor that
Thanks for the not so nice comment @s0undstrulycrazy.#Idina Menzel is an incredible talent. As a vocal coach my job is to point out areas that can be improved. My intention is never to criticize, but to show how some potentially damaging, bad vocal habits can be corrected. Bel Canto, which my Lawrence Vocal System is based on, saved my voice early in my own career, when I was singing incorrectly, and I want to save others from damaging their voices.
I just saw her in concert and she nailed let it go, nailed Defying Gravity, and nailed everything else. Too bad when you are as amazing as she is, you can’t have a single slightly off day without someone tearing you down. She was in Wicked 15 years ago and she still slays it. She’s incredible.
If it was a good or bad day, sick or well, her technique still puts a lot of compression on her vocal cords.
Ok, this is Idina’s style. She typically sings POP MUSIC, NOT CLASSICAL. Do you not understand how pop music works?? Her voice is beautiful and fine the way it is. She isn’t flat anywhere and she doesn’t have to push bc she has sang notes that are much more challenging for her voice. Good lord. Go listen to Ariana Grande, I bet you’ll hate her, too. Good day.
To be fair, Idina was singing in 20 degree weather. I've been taking vocal lessons since I was 13, I'm 28 now. I have sung in many different weather conditions and I have to tell you it is very hard to keep your tone strong and steady in a round voice with full support from your diaphragm in the temperatures she was in that night. The air was very dry and very cold over there that night, which contributed to very dry vocal chords causing the diaphragm work harder and her voice to be very scratchy. I've seen her perform live, and she is very on top of things.
TheNancyc1 I agree with you that it's really difficult to sing outdoors in cold, or hot weather, and she had a lot of challenges. Probably couldn't hear herself well either. But my comments were about HOW she was singing -- pushing too hard among other things -- not really taking into consideration why she may have been singing too hard. I was using her technique as an example of the mechanics of why she had trouble hitting her big high note and got really scratchy from too much compression on the cords. Thanks for your comment! Cheers, Beth Lawrence
Ok I know I'm posting this WAY after this video was posted, but I found some serious problems with this video. Number one, you are only looking at Idina's performance from the perspective of your interesting style of coaching. To be fair, Idina trained at the NYU Tisch School of the Arts, one of the most prestigious performing arts schools on the planet, which (correct me if I'm wrong) you did not. Also, Idina's approach through the mask is an approach commonly taught by many voice PROFFESORS. I also know through personal experience that your method is not nearly as good as that of hers. Before I got with an incredible vocal coach who taught me to sing through the mask, I was uncomfortable singing a C4. Since using her approach, I can now sing an A4 without hurting my voice in the slightest. I know this may have come across a tad bit aggressive, but I am open to conversation.
@Jeremy Kohler - I appreciate your comment. However if you'd like to read my story you'd find that early in my career my voice was wrecked by a very popular vocal method that advocates pushing into the mask and too much compression on the vocal cords. Once I found the concepts of Bel Canto I never, ever had another vocal problem. And that is after having NODULES 3 TIMES IN 3 YEARS with the 'other' method. So anything I teach is coming directly from my own success, and that of countless students who have gotten rid of NODES naturally, simply by learning to sing correctly. Here's my story if you're interested: www.allaboutvoice.com/how-bel-canto-saved-my-career.html
What's the problem with her voice she has a very powerful voice
I can see what you were trying to do. But you literally were saying the same thing after every line of the song.
Maybe she was cold... Overworked... Tired... Lol how many broadway shows have you been in?
.......maybe you should try and "coach" her on a performance that's not outside in the middle of Times Square when it's below freezing outside and it was literally snowing. That's probably causing a lot of these problems, not exactly the fairest performance to judge.
Thanks for the comment Cameron V . You're absolutely right. Kudos to her for singing live, out in the cold. And when you sing outside you always have challenges with hearing yourself correctly. This video/audio was initially a part of my Voicegram Newsletter, and I mentioned all these challenges in the newsletter. I will include them in the video description. All that said, I stick to my coaching comments because she truly would benefit from opening up her pronunciation; use body placement; get the sound less forward; connect with her lyric; and release the voice - not push so hard. #Idina Menzel is a marvelous singer, but even the best singer needs tweaking now and then. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, AllAboutVoice.com
I do agree that there were some SMALL & MINOR constructive criticisms that could've been made. But taking a song that was made for HER and ripping it apart and chewing her apart and stating your opinions about, not just a singer but, an actress that has been nominated for 13 awards and won 4 of them, about someone who has been actively performaning since 1995 is wrong. I'd like to see the awards and/or the degrees you have in "vocal coaching". Also, most of this song she's belting. She's a belter. That's her thing. It's not meant for everyone to sing the same. So millions of people admire her for her singing, and by the looks of the comments on this video, you have upset many people. This video should he taken down, because at sort this is inappropriate of you to do something like this to a grown professional adult.
Jvon Halbert - Thanks for your comment. My intention is never to criticize, but to show by example how someone can sing better. Yes, she's a belter, and when you are pushing your voice too hard, as she was doing in this song, you can see what happens! You can't sustain your upper middle, and like she demonstrated, too much compression on her vocal cords caused her to miss her 'money' note and have a very 'shredded' scratchy tone.
I stand by my comments because I used to sing just like #Idina Menzel early in my career, and because of belting incorrectly I got nodules on my vocal cords 3 times in 3 years! I don't want that to happen to anyone else! Once I learned Bel Canto singing, I NEVER had another vocal problem, and continued to sing in all the same styles I always did -- just BETTER, and with a healthy voice. #Idina Menzel is a wonderful talent, but many talented people get into vocal trouble -- like Adele for instance and many more. I want people to protect their voices, while maintaining a healthy, unique voice. I'm not in the business of 'chewing people apart'. I want to build people up and give them solutions for their vocal problems because I know firsthand how awful that can be.
If you want to see my credentials please go here: bethlawrencemusic.com. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
Beth Lawrence Now that you explain your past experiences with bad vocal history, it makes sense why you would want to help others. But do it to people who are just starting out, people who don't have a career yet. Not to people who have had one for more than 10 years now. And mentioning Adele did she get, not one but, 2 videos from you correcting her singing? I think if i were in Idina's shoes, i would really wonder why you just singled her out? Because if you say you want to help people so that they don't destroy their voices, you should do it to everyone who needs it not just Ms.Menzel. You just singling her out makes it in a sense bullying, but i completely understand that those weren't your intentions. But, it seems rude in a sense.
Also, I'd like to apologize if my tone was a bit inappropriate. This just really upset me that you were only pointing out her.
Jvon Halbert This was the first in my series 'If I Were Your Vocal Coach'. I started with Idina Menzel because she had just had the misfortunate performance on New Year's Eve, THEN, a couple weeks later she sang at the SuperBowl, so it was a perfect follow up. So I was not 'singling' her out, it just happened that she was in the news. I will be commenting on others as I continue with my series. I have gotten so many comments, and it's always good to start a conversation in the community, even if I seem to have ruffled some feathers, which was not intended! Cheers, Beth Lawrence
My word! At least know how to say her name!!! Also, your voice was not extremely pleasing. I think Idina is doing just fine. You may want to seek a vocal coach tho... Couldn't hurt....
ik this comment is old but IM DYINGGGG 💀💀 “you may want to seek a vocal coach tho.. couldn’t hurt” omfg 💀.
The interesting thing that this person keeps commenting on is the fact that Idina is singing from her face, i.e. her nose cause her voice to be kinda high pitch, but she's a broadway performer. That how almost all Broadway performers sing. Even some great singers like DIana DeGarmo who start out singing outside of theatre and then move over to Broadway sing through their nose because they need to project their voice to be heard throughout the theatre. Singing in New York during the Winter in the middle of the night while sick can cause anyone to mess up, but glad you chose to critique and analyze this performance not while she's at her best casue what fun would that be.
+Meffs Sugi Thanks for the comment. I DID also give feedback on her performance of the National Anthem, subsequent to this performance, so check my comments on that. Yes, there's a very forward placement 'Broadway' style currently, but I don't agree that forward placement equals projection. If anything, placement should be in the body for maximum power - just take a look at the huge voices in opera, and they most certainly don't 'sing through their nose' as you say. What about Audra McDonald, Barbara Cook and Brian Michael Stokes? Gorgeous, warm, round, powerful voices, -- not in the nose! Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
Matthew Sugimoto yes I found that interesting because I was watching a tutorial on how to sing let it go and it suggested singing more with the sound in the face so that you could get more of that belty Elsa sound
Grayson Brown - you're right, no one SHOULD sing a song exactly the same each time, because if you're in touch with the emotion of the song, it will change, as will your vocal interpretation dependent on the feeling you're putting into it. Although your comment was rather mean-spirited, I will say that I DO want attention about my Lawrence Vocal System. I want everyone to have a healthy voice FOR LIFE, and my coaching comments for Idina Menzel addressed her singing too hard, and putting too much compression on her vocal cords. That's how I got nodules years ago, until I learned to sing correctly. I simply point out vocal habits that are damaging to the voice, so that others won't make the mistakes that I did. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
You just need to stop ... Idina is a famous Broadway star and has worked on years and years of technique. How has she preformed in a musical every night and not received nodes ... That's right, because u r being ignorant. This song is difficult to sing and I bet you couldnt sing it half as well as her. (Btw sorry for being so rude but Idina is my idol and I feel that she has wonderful technique and I know because I sing opera and want to be on Broadway and I have been working on technique for 2 years so I do know what I am talking about)
You have no idea what you`re talking about !! If you just say open it up" and "keep it in the body" you are not coaching! What are your scientific explanation to this?? In addition, your sound it`s much more flat than her sound!!! Please change job...
DeliCanto - thanks for the suggestions (except for the one to change jobs!). This was the first in my mock coaching sessions and I will add more description and information on subsequent 'mock' coaching sessions. Of course, when I'm coaching in person we stop and work on each issue until it's cleared up. These are just very general overviews, not in depth coaching sessions because obviously I can't directly work with the client, so I have to simply comment on the vocal performance. If you want a better explanation of what I'm talking about, please feel free to look at my other impromptu videos on my Channel. These are 'Tips', not courses on singing, please remember. Anyone who wants to know more can go to my website. allaboutvoice.com And if you don't agree with my teaching method based in Bel Canto (which saved my voice years ago), then no worries, there are lots of vocal coaches who offer their own singing systems to choose from! Cheers, Beth Lawrence
Antonietta D'Elia Actually she knows exactly what she’s talking about. And she handled her response to your comment very maturely. As a person who has sung and performed professionally for the last 5 years, I understand exactly what she’s talking about when she says "open it up”, and keep it in the body”, and she actually wasn’t flat at all. I guess you just don’t understand what proper singing sounds like yet. The scientific explanation might be that when you sing from your diaphragm rather than your throat and open up your soft pallet when you sing, your voice kind of naturally refrains from straining and sounding splotchy. I hope this has cleared everything up for you
Antonietta D'Elia and actually after just listening to all of your singing videos on your channel I can assure you that you had little to no room to say what you did. To tell her she sounded flat when you yourself sing completely from the throat and with no breath support at all.
@@cartermullins5984 Thanks for your support (no pun intended!).
Idina Menzel, "If I were your vocal coach."
Is this your attempt to apply for a position as her coach?
If you are going to criticize her perhaps you at least listen to how she is introduced.
Her name is pronounced "Ahdeenah" NOT "EDINAH."
And the way you are talking to her...
EDINAH MENZEL, you can have a healthy voice for life if you follow the Lawrence Vocal System "MY SYSTEM" because obviously your coach is not working for you. So listen to me because I am better and really want to help you. DON'T SAY THIS IS NOT ABOUT HER. YOU SPECIFICALLY STATED "Some bad habits that she's developed."
How about this, if she wants your advice, her people will contact you.
It seems that you either really cant stand her and are using your perceived power to humiliate her or that you really think you are trying to help her and are hoping she will call you because you are the answer to making her career even bigger.
+Ida k
Okay, think about this one.
Are you being any better of a person?
This is emotionally charged and I get you "like" Idina
but we can all use opportunities to teach each other.
Although everything depends on how it is perceived.
Thanks for the comment @Cheyenne Fernald. Yes, she had a lot of challenges to sing in the cold, dry air, and 'Let It Go' is certainly a tough song -- most of it sung in the upper middle range. I still stick by my assessment that despite all the challenges, and perhaps because of those challenges, she was singing too hard - and THAT'S what caused her to crack. I'm not attacking her, simply using her performance as an example. And yes, anytime anyone has the guts to sing live these days, rather than choose the safe route of lipsynching -- I give them great credit! Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
IM SCREAMING KJHWAFGSIJD, you know she sings musical theatre right? and nOt classical?
You can sing any style with the method I teach, I just advocate that you do it with healthy technique!
This was great feedback. I really like Idina Menzel but definitely at times she gets very nasal and too narrow.
Hi Crystal J. Leotaud . Yes, if she OPENED UP and released her voice through the body she'd get huge power, but without all the effort. She's in danger of hurting her voice if she continues singing the way she is now. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
"Live performance at Radio City Music Hall" Why do you have to pick someone out to "critique" when you are capable of singing the wrong and right keys yourself? Of course she's pushing, of course she is nasal, ITS FREEZING. Why did you not chose any of the hundreds of other live performances she has done? Just curious. I just feel bad for this girl. But enjoyed looking into who she is... Apparently she is coming to my state so I will see about seeing her and I will follow up. But the other live performances I just went through seem amazing. And she always sings live. She's apparently a Broadway star who has won numerous awards including a Tony. So again, just wondered why you would use this one performance were her vocal cords are probably frozen...
"She's all one dimensional ---" Have you heard her other vocals? The fact that you picked this performance to focus on her "bad habits" ....well, it just seems unprofessional and mean.
Search youtube, there is so much out there and she sounds nothing like this performance. Guaranteed if you or I were in ridged cold we would get a "critique" too. Just seems harsh. Perhaps you will reconsider.
Have a beautiful day.
Ugh "I-DYE-NA"? Really?
s0undstrulycrazy I know! My mistake. I've had lots of people point that out to me, so thanks for your input. I have heard her name pronounced so many different ways, but I've corrected that on my latest video with feedback on her National Anthem performance.
I've seen this with other stars. After they "make it", they start compromising, and sing it SO TOTALLY different than what got them famous in the first place!!?? I will give her that she is singing it ALL the time, and it must be getting very old and tiring.
I like this critique here , but it's hilarious because we all know she knows how to sing very well. As a singer myself, we all know every performance/song isn't going to be perfect.
News Flash! #Idina Menzel is going to sing the #National Anthem LIVE at the #Superbowl! Broadway stars are used to singing live nightly, but how refreshing it is to have someone actually SING live, rather than take the safe route of lip syncing. She muffed her performance on New Year's Eve, (see my mock coaching session on that performance - ruclips.net/video/nqIyeTAeuic/видео.html) so what a brave move for her to go for it live. Look for my 'If I Were Your Vocal Coach' session after her 'Banner' performance. Go Idina!
Beth, I agree with you on many issues as a working singer myself, but sometimes we just don't know if she is in as much danger as we might think. All we have to go by is the sound. In other words, we aren't that singer. There are singers who can chest belt, scream out, glottal compress and do all those more riskier vocal productions all night long and never lose their voices. It depends on the singer. But I agree that at times it could have been more restrained. Thanks for the analysis. It never hurts to revisit these issues.
+VIDEOHEREBOB Thanks for the comment. While I agree that all voices are different, one thing still remains the same -- continued bad habits over time, especially when extremely straining the vocal cords, will resort in damage or compensatory vocal patterns that will begin to impair vocal health. I experienced it myself, and in seeing it in others for so many years, I know that it will eventually catch up with you in time -- yes, depending on the person, the voice, and how much the voice is being used. Thank you for taking the time to comment @Videoherebob! Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
+Beth Lawrence My saving is really good control over exhalation and support and lots of water.
First of all, Ideena, not Ideyena. Second of all, the way Idina is singing is the way she is SUPPOSED to be singing. Yes, she's using her head voice and not her chest voice; but that is, again, how she's supposed to sing this song and how her voice is unique. She is also SUPPOSED to jump up to the note; it's kinda how the song was written. And, I wouldn't be critiquing a professional singer/actor if you can't sing yourself. As a side note, poor woman is probably sick from it being in New York in the winter! She was also in the middle of Christmas song covers and fame over Frozen.
I think a lot of the way you demonstrate the singing wouldn't work for Elsa. Another aspect of this song was Idina was playing a character, it's not just a radio pop song.
I get it, there are some errors, but that’s what makes singers unique in their performance
Poor Idina was overworked and tired. This was not a fair performance to critic. She is an amazing performer and had a off night. It happens to be best of them.
+Kim Sampson - I totally understand about having a tired voice, but as a listener, I didn't know that she was tired or sick. All I know is what I hear, and even if she was tired, that is no reason for her to be pushing her voice so hard, which led to her vocal raspiness and not being able to sustain her big 'money' note. I chose this performance because of the above, not because it was a 'bad' performance.
Please see my feedback on her 'National Anthem' performance when she was in good voice! Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
Each person is different with their methods of sound and singing. If her methods are what she needs to sing I suggest you leave her alone.
Beth, I understand your point about thinking low when singing high so as not to strain, but the whole nasal thing...that's her style. I've seen alot of other singers, especially the new kids, sing through their mask. It's a style. And we, as singers, all have pitch problems when we're sick. When you say she's too hard, did you think that maybe she's emoting? Ok so the last note was a big "ouch". Understood.
Every song should not sound like a Broadway tune. This song in particular, yes.
And she's singing live and in the cold.
What a way to nitpick and critcize.
But if you want to nitpick, I heard a couple of crows there from you when you were giving an example.
Please do everyone a favor and post some videos of you singing live, night after night, outside, and while you're sick.
Unless someone is constantly, seriously pitchy, I keep my comments to myself. Because everyone has a bad day. And every one has their own style. It's a matter of taste.
I've been singing for 40+ years, with vocal lessons from the best, Don and Marty Lawrence, Katie Agresta, Gerry Janssen, and several others. I have horrible days when my body is tired. And tell you what, that "raspiness"??? I wish I could have that in certain songs that I sing, esp. when singing rock tunes. Can't sound pretty all the time and I don't want to.
But you know what they say, Those who can't do, teach. Which is why I don't teach.
Thanks for your comments +Dee DePalma even though some of them weren't very nice.
Style and technique are not the same thing. Whether a person is sick, singing outside, just had sad news -- once you step onstage, your audience doesn't know this. I didn't know that she was sick when I heard this performance. The point is - it doesn't matter what CAUSED her to push too hard - she was pushing too hard and the result of too much compression on the vocal cords caused her issues in that performance. That's all. It's a perfect example of cause and effect - push too hard and you'll have trouble with your voice.
I have posted videos of me singing inside and out. Have you seen them??? I had a career that had me singing outside in heat, cold, wind -- yes, those are challenging gigs. Since I learned Bel Canto singing I have never had a problem with my voice no matter how long I sang, or what conditions. And, I am STILL gigging live.
It bothers me when someone uses the 'Those who can't do - teach.' I am a working singer/songwriter with my own career. But I started teaching years ago so that others wouldn't experience the wrecked voice and nodules I had early in my career. I consider teaching a PRIVILEGE that I don't take lightly. And, as a service to others it is incredibly fulfilling to me. If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't take the time and effort to post these short, informational videos. I believe that if I have found something that helped me in my life, I would like to share it with others, so that they can be helped too. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, bethlawrencemusic.com
Beth, have you "heard" all your criticism? And you're saying that I'm not being nice? All I hear is critique. That's pretty unfair. I truly appreciate people's voices, if they can sing. I don't use the "American Idol" standard of "pitchy" because every once in awhile, even the best singers are pitchy or have an off day because of illness. And if you've heard Idina Menzel sing in the past, you would have known she was dealing with a cold.
And, as you well know, other signed vocalists won't even do their song in the "record key" when singing live. Always a step down.Yet, all I hear is "ouch, that was nasally" or "oooo, that was pitchy"...and I hear this from so-called singers who even "Shatner" their songs or sound like Ethel Merman when singing a Joan Jett tune. And Idina did it in the original key, even though she was ill.
I don't appreciate ANYONE critiquing a famous singer, it almost sounds like sour grapes. They have a record deal for a reason. Maybe it's not our cup of tea, but different strokes for different folks. When people put down a singer, I always say, "Well, that's why they're famous, and we're not.
I've never considered myself a great singer. Yet I receive many accolades, but I also get alot of critique. If they have a point, I ask them to sing it for me, to see how they would do it. And if it sounds good, then it's duly noted. If not, then I know where it comes from.
I always think I can do better. ALWAYS. The day you think you're the best thing since sliced bread is the day you'll stop improving your skills.
Let me ask you this, seriously. What is the reason that you are tearing Idina Menzel's singing. What's the point of it? To get people to become your students? Why don't you post a video of you singing the same song...the way that you would do it, and let us all be the judge? And that way, you can show people that you are a teacher worth taking vocal lessons from.
Btw, what part of my post wasn't very nice? The part where I criticized you singing a couple of lines? I'm not the one criticizing a famous singer's voice. Hmmmm....
And no matter how much technique you have, when you're sick, you're going to crack, squeeze or go for the note. Especially if you're a perfectionist.
Jesus nasality has to do with soft palate, not with "putting things down in the body" (idk what that means).... what does ancor the sound even mean? You have a good ear for this, but your terms are SO wrong...
The way I explain it is the way I think people can most conceptually 'get it'. Of course I can't explain all the mechanics in a few minutes. That's why, if people find value in my observations they are free to read more about my method; take my online courses or buy my book which details the Lawrence Vocal System. I've had nodes before I learned the Bel Canto concepts and I hope to spare people from wrecking their voice with incorrect
technique.
Your voice sounds so Barbra Streisand-like at some points. .You're a wonderful singer and you have such an amazing legato!
Gustavo Daniele Wow, thank you so much for the nice comment! I have gotten a lot of strong opinions and comments from people (I'm glad I started a dialog though!) that it's so nice to hear a positive comment! Cheers, Beth Lawrence, bethlawrencemusic.com
+Beth Lawrence most people feel offended because you point out their idol flaws, but you do it on a constructive and polite way! I'd love to see a Christina Aguilera analysis from you.: )
It's idina or ( eye the na)
She was great in Wicked my favorite!) and other earlier shows, but too much belting lately. I've seen her 3 times (and going again next Tuesday) and love her, but would like to hear her pull back and save the big belt "money notes" for the end and wow people instead of always belting. I was shocked when I heard her belt Silent Night. Not so "silent." lol She's fantastic and just want her to have longevity in her career and not hurt herself. Sometimes she really does look like she's pushing, just from her facial expressions alone and how it sounds. Should take let it go down 1/2 step. She said she would have if she knew it was going to be a hit, and have to sing it all the time!
Linda Abbott I really appreciate your comment -- so right on. I've gotten a lot of flack for my 'mock coaching session', but I, too, am concerned that she is getting into some bad habits and I wanted others to see and hear the manifestation of too much belting, all the time, especially through the upper middle.. Like I said, I got nodes several times early in my career because I was pushing too hard -- just like she is doing lately and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Yes, she needs to get back to her emotional voice -- where she has dynamics and feeling in her singing, rather than just shear volume. All that said, she has a wonderful instrument but she needs to take care of it and make a few tweaks to make sure that she doesn't lose the great voice she has. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
BTW, she could always lower the key of 'Let It Go' and no one would know the difference!
She couldn't hit that last note because it was too cold out.
You definitely have a good point. I love her and her singing but I do feel like she could be better.
Thanks for your comment @Al'ykc Pryor! Happy Singing! Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
You do know that Idina Menzel trained at the Tisch School of Arts, probably one of the best performing arts schools in the country. Trust me, she knows what she's doing. Back in 03 to like 06, she performed Wicked at least six to seven times a week for 3 years straight. That would destroy anyone's voice no matter how good their technique is. Her voice is just exhausted, and there's nothing she can do. She didn't necessarily do anything wrong in this song, it's how she always sings it, she just couldn't handle it because of that tiredness she's probably performing 12 times a in concerts, so she really just needs to slow down.
Yes, I know @Ameilia N -- my big mistake. Thank you for the correction and reminder. Cheers, Beth Lawrence
It's nice someone cares to show others what to avoid.
I too like Idina very much, however the high pitch/belting is a turn off for me,.
also, I hope she will use her voice better, no reason to end up like Julie Andrews...
Thank you for your support!
I don’t understand why people are so sensitive about this video. Insulting this lady just because you don’t agree her opinion is just so immature. It’s just sad that people are being mean when she was just trying to give her two-cents of advice. I’m trying to learn how to improve my singing voice, and sometimes it frustrates me that I swerve back to singing through my nose. I don’t want that but I’m trying to learn and practice different techniques. Anyway, thank you for the pointers in this video Ms Beth. God bless you.
Thank you so much for your support!
I'd love you as a vocal coach!!
But I totally see where you're coming from! I'd love for to have a listen to my versions of this song (one live and one studio) and maybe give me some pointers? Thanks!
Can you post it here Daniel Bowyer ? That might be fun, to 'coach' your performance on this song. If not, post it on youtube and I'll make a coaching 'comment'. I'd be glad to do that. Cheers, Beth Lawrence allaboutvoice.com
You talk about how she thinks up
But this song is a lot higher than a lot of the other songs she sings. She probably felt flat. She was flat on some parts and she put too high if riffs to save it.
I like how your critique of her singing is immediately followed by a worse example of you singing the song that's off pitch. At least your not "in your mask" or as professionals refer to it, your head voice.
Id-i-na it’s Idi-na
I know @Horses And Me - my mistake! Thanks for the correction.
Beth Lawrence Your welcome 🙏
You have the right idea, but the terms you use are not clear to people with no vocal training. Saying things like "down in the body" doesn't mean anything to the average person. If you're going to talk about body placement, be clear and scientific about it. For example, don't take shallow breaths into the chest. (Don't suck breath in, invite it in) Raise the soft palate and relax the jaw. Don't force notes by clenching your muscles. Open the mouth and throat and let the breath do the work. You said "anchor" tons of times but you never explained how that relates to breath support.
Good coaching, Beth!
Thanks Pam Morita , glad you found it valuable. #idinamenzel is really gifted, but she should really address some of the bad vocal habits she's fallen into before she damages her voice. That's why I did this video "If I Were Your Coach….." Cheers, Beth Lawrence, AllAboutVoice.com
Good grief, it's actually kind of embarrassing how rude everyone is being to this lady. You'd think you were dealing with defensive fan girls. She has an opinion, just like you, but at least she's been kind about it and hasn't risen to any ugly bait. I love Idina as well, but as a vocalist myself, I'm always open to listening to different techniques. Beth Lawrence thank you for taking the time for making the video and being a classy lady.
CBelle09 You are incredibly kind, thank you! I, too, have been very surprised at many of the unkind comments I've received, but I'm glad that this video has started a spirited conversation about vocal health. As I've said, my intention is not to criticize, but to point out bad vocal habits that can, and will cause vocal problems down the road. I've been there, and I was lucky enough to find a Mentor who gave me the right technique to save my voice and keep it healthy for my entire career and beyond. I want that same thing for everybody. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
+CBelle09 I agree people should not be rude but to point out why this was wrong. +Beth Lawrence just needs to rethink how she delivered this message. If the tables were turned she would not appreciate it and many people would defend her. That's what people should do... Step up and express why something is not right but NEVER aims it at the person but at the subject. At least the best way in which a person can.
Some are being mean spirited, yes, but try to help those who don't know anything about singing.
This is not the way to get people to take vocal lessons from Beth. There should not be any name calling...I'm not a big Idina follower, and I may or may not like her voice, but she's got some pipes, she's done B'way...it's not her first rodeo. I feel bad when anyone calls out singers who may have an off night, especially when they're always on point.
I've seen so many artists out there "lose it", but that's one night. Or one song.
Who knows if they even had time to warm up.
Beth, for your own marketing sake, don't put anyone down. You turn people off that way. You want business, then put your own video with you singing and show what and what not to do.
Good coaching.
Thanks so much for the nice comment Endy Ramos ! Cheers, Beth Lawrence
Awesome coaching Beth.....It was so obvious to hear what she was doing once you explained it as it was happening. I thought this was an invaluable lesson for singers to hear this critique. Thanks, you do a great job.
I'm so glad it was helpful. It really does exemplify the Lawrence Vocal System of 'RELEASE' don't 'PUSH', doesn't it? My best to you @Fred Montana! Cheers, Beth Lawrence allaboutvoice.com
I must say that you have made some very good points. Of course you will get some bad comments from people who are blinded by their loyalty to her to see that she is human and she can make mistakes too. It's common for singers after a while to make more mistakes because they have gotten comfortable with their music they no longer pay attention to the structure of the music and put their own spin on it. I get what you are saying though, she did use her head voice in a song that really required her to use her chest more. But I've also noticed that when someone is very nervous that they tend to switch to their "default voice" which it seems her's is her head voice. I personally love Idina but again she is human and like the rest of us makes mistakes. No matter how famous you are or become it never hurts to continue working to better your voice
I appreciate your support and comments @highgreenbunny! Yes, by commenting on Idina Menzel's performance I really touched a nerve with her fans. As I've noted, she has an amazing voice, but as you noted, all singers need to continually work on recognizing any bad habits that creep into their technique. She had a bad night, but regardless of the situation, I was commenting on how her technique manifested so that others could understand that pushing too hard and pushing the sound too far into the mask can result in a shredded voice and inability to hit sustainable high notes. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
You should do a little bit more research on Bel Canto. It is not effective to teach in the style of bel canto over a youtube video. you keep saying "in the body" and "use the body". Can you actually explain what that means and how to do it, or demonstrate how to do it? bel canto isn't some master formula or technique to singing, it is actually a FORM of TEACHING. It is when the teacher directs the student step by step, what to do with their body and in what areas of their body. and $147 for singing lessons? not even the masters charge that.
+Justin McDaniel Thanks for your comments, I understand your concerns. Obviously, one to one, face to face instruction is always the best way to learn, or in a group where you can learn from others. These short, general videos are meant to give the basic concepts of the Lawrence Vocal System. If someone finds them valuable, then they will seek more information either from me, or from a teacher of Bel Canto.
I agree with you --I wouldn't expect to watch a 10 minute video on how to paint and expect to be able to paint a masterpiece! I would seek additional instruction if interested. I am giving an intro to the basic concepts so that people can learn more if they wish to. I have lots of videos that give the basics that people can learn from, free, on youtube. Even asking the question 'what does it mean to 'sing in the body' is a great first step!
My intention is to help people have a healthy voice. I learned to sing incorrectly from a well-meaning teacher at the beginning of my career and it wrecked my voice until I found Giuseppe Balestrieri who taught me Bel Canto. I want to share what I learned from him. The more people I can introduce to those concepts, the less vocal frustration and injury there will be.
Yes, I have created two online video courses "Reboot Your Singing Voice - Level 1 & 2" specifically to teach the basics to folks who can't invest $147 an hour to learn the basics that they need. I also offer scholarships and workshops on a 'donation basis' - so I try to help wherever I can.
You should also investigate what vocal coaches charge -- many charge much more than I do! My best to you, Cheers, Beth Lawrence
''I'm freeee! Let it-'' -- No! don't let it go, anchor it in the body! 5:28 xD
Nice video! I'm not a singer but it seems to me that Idina is just a tense performer. She doesn't really let go. Wheras in the studio, she is able to really relax herself. I know she has been doing it for years, but still. Tensing up could've become a bad habit. Again, I'm not a singer.
To everyone who's being incredibly rude to Beth, you really need to chill. She's not being malicious towards Idina or defaming her as a person. She's simply doing what a vocal coach does - giving tips and analyzing her voice. As a singer and performer myself, I actually found some of her notes and tips very insightful and helpful. Some that I may recognize in my own voice and can use to help keep my voice healthy. Anyone with ears can tell this wasn't Idina's best performance.The conditions in which she was singing were terrible. Freezing cold weather is not the best environment for a singer. Idina has not had the best of luck with singing this song live but she puts on a brave face and sings it wonderfully. I love Idina so much, she's one of my favorite singers and idols. However, I know that she could improve a lot more on her technique. So calm down, no one's insulting anyone's idol or being rude. Idina is still going to be singing somewhere so just chill. If you've got an opinion, don't be rude. There's a way you can say something and not be rude about it. Great job, Beth! I enjoyed the video.
+Joey Evans I really appreciate your NICE comments, thank you! My hope is that people will hear and understand what happens when you push your voice too hard -- so that no one will damage their voices. Thanks for understanding that my intention was not to be hurtful to #Idinamenzel, but to use her performance (yes - LIVE in terrible conditions -- good for her!) to demonstrate how even a Pro can get vocally out of alignment. We all need tweaking no matter what level we are as performers. My best to you @Joey Evans! Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
i agree with every thing you are saying it's really helping me you are my first vocal coach literary
How wonderful @Jevin Watson - thanks for the nice comment. Bel Canto singing saved my voice, so I trust in those concepts completely!
Beth Lawrence Thanks again
well i know that it's been like 3-4 years ago, but no defense
yes she's pushing her voice a lot and stretching the larynx and this is not opera
love the way you explain the technique even though i didn't understand that much but, hope that you can approach some new modern genres of music!
if you read my cmt i appreciate that
thanks for your comment @MC!
This was really helpful, thank you for posting! I've been listening to Idina for years as a big fan of Rent and it's always bothered me how much she pushes and forces her voice, but I thought it was just me since everyone else seems to love it. I think you did a nice job here explaining some of the issues of technique. It's funny to hear her singing the words let it go in the most stained and unrelaxed way. I guess she was more focused on the performance than the song in this case, which is quite understandable but still a shame as it squashed all the power and beauty, in my opinion. In her defense, I do think that all of the things you mention here were done much better in the original recording of Let it Go for the film. I would be very interested to hear you do a compare/contrast of that performance of hers with this one! Thanks again!
Oh yeah because it’s not like Idina’s recording did better than Demi Lovato’s. Making it the first time that the original out sold the pop version. 👀
Oh wait
Id(ee)na
If anyone asks for an example of the word “pretentious” I’ll just show them this video
Just want to tell you-you said her name wrong you put the stress on the second I when it is supposed to be on the first and second of all her voice changed over the years so of course, she forced the high note but overall I bet she is a better singer than you thank you very much and I bet I am a better singer than you so whatever
It's nice that you're defending your idol @lily Mancini. Yes, Idina Menzel is fantastic and has a great career. But in my opinion, her voice could be warmer; less pushy; more in the body and less in the nose. Even people at the top of their career need to 'tune' their instrument and keep vigilant about letting bad habits creep in. I'm sure Ms. Menzel has a good vocal coach, but I hear in her voice too much compression on the vocal cords; placement in the nose; too forward a presentation; and a brittle tone. That's not to say she doesn't have a wonderful voice, but as a vocal coach, my job is to promote what is good and healthy, and point out what could be improved upon. If you love her voice as it is, great! Everyone has different taste. BTW, I continually had nodules on my vocal cords early in my career until I found Bel Canto - since that day I have NEVER had another problem with my voice, so I know what works and what doesn't from personal experience. Cheers, Beth allaboutvoice.com
+Valerie Ng Thank you! I'm glad you understand what my intention was.
+Valerie Ng +Cheyenne Fernald +beth lawrence
What is your definition of constructive? These comments were not constructive. I posted some information above which will hopefully explain this better. Ms. Lawrence just didn't realize the extent to the criticism she was placing on this performer. Although she claims that her "intent" was to help... Her words clearly do not align with that message.
Example... She could have presented the message differently with better and less hurtful results; "Although this performer has strong skills, here are examples and reasons NOT to sing when (a) you have a cold, (b) your body temperature is dropping or your face is numb from the severity of the cold weather, (c) etc... But instead there are comments such as "But in my opinion, her voice could be warmer; less pushy; more in the body and less in the nose" is what makes this a subjective opinion. Why??? It's obvious... Not to mention that telling someone or describing something without a solution is not constructive. Not to mention it sounds arrogant. The answer is obvious...
(COMMENT) But instead there are comments such as "But in my opinion, her voice could be warmer; less pushy; more in the body and less in the nose"
(REPLY) Obviously, her voice could be warmer, less pushy, and less in the nose; if only her nose wasn't drippy and stuffed, if only her body temperature was not falling, and if only her face/ears/etc... were not numb from the freezing weather.
That's like saying I am giving constructive feedback to the lady who didn't win the race... "your not fast enough, you stumbled a lot, and you didn't keep a steady pace." Oh wait I forgot to mention that she still finished the race, but her prosthetic leg strap came lose so she did the best she could in the circumstances she was in. I hope this makes sense. Ms. Lawrence just needs to present her "lessons" in a different way.
Now there are many reasons that another professional could "critique" Ms. Lawrence's voice, but there is NO NEED to. If they truly want to help they can do it in a very different way.
+Kate Ty Thank you for your comments! You write very well and are funny, too. To respond:
I did not mean for my tone to be harsh or critical. I still stand by my comments - specifically to address the one you picked out: "But in my opinion, her voice could be warmer; less pushy; more in the body and less in the nose".
When someone pushes their sound too much in the mask, it can create a very pinchy, nasal sound that 'in my opinion' is not very pleasant. Idina is in constant belt in this song, especially in her upper middle range. Early in my career, I used to sing like that, and I got nodes 3 times in 3 years because of too much compression on my vocal cords. 'In my opinion', she needs to back off and not push so much. I personally find that when a singer anchors the sound in the body, rather than placing the sound in the mask, the ability to hit high notes and support the tone is much more successful.
All that being said, even in horrible outdoor conditions like she faced, there shouldn't have been any effect on her technique caused by the weather. I've done many outdoor gigs in cold weather and basically, yes, your vocal cords can get dried out, your face is frozen, and it's no fun. But your good technique still remains despite the external challenges.
I said right at the top that she was amazing to sing live at all, even if the weather had been great. That's commendable in these days when no one dares to sing live.
She's a wonderful, successful singer. I don't dispute that. I just know that IN THIS PERFORMANCE - she was not singing well and most all of her glitches were due to pushing too hard and singing with too forward a placement. THAT'S what I wanted to point out -- not to bash her just for bashing sake, of course. Her performance was a good example of some bad habits that can cause vocal damage. I know that firsthand.
Cheers, Beth Lawrence, All About Voice
Thank you for your reply. I understand that wanted to point out things that could be harmful to the vocal cords. I am not disputing that. What I hoped you would see is that many people tend to use their "right" to freedom of speech or professional advantage to use others as a means to justify or promote something (perhaps good for many) but hurtful to others. I guess my point is; regardless of the intent, if she saw this it would be hurtful. Why? Because she already knows what she did wrong and having to relive it could be hurtful. I get we could say, "put your big girl panties on and "let it go" but the bottom line is how much are we willing to help others at the expense of another? This is not just about Idina; point me to the link were others were doing this to you and I will communicate the same way to them. I guarantee that you can get a "willing" participant who would like to be used as an educational tool or even come up with another creative way to express your expertise. :o) What do you think?
Have a blessed day,
Kate
+Kate Ty Thanks for all your comments. I take your feedback about making my 'tone' of coaching a bit less 'hurtful' (in your opinion) to heart. It never was my intention to be hurtful in anyway. This was the first 'coaching' session video I did with a 'celebrity' and I may have been too passionate about my feedback!
Please watch the second 'mock coaching' session I did with Idina, and you'll see that whatever I comment on, I also demonstrate,, so that everyone can hear how the change in technique affects the sound.
ruclips.net/video/rgSWx4THhls/видео.html
I also point out where she is singing beautifully!
Cheers, Beth Lawrence
If you think this is a good way to get business... Bad idea insulting an Oscar winning performer... Whoo! Ok.. Done..
Mary46033 Thanks for taking the time to comment. My intention is never to criticize or insult anyone; but to help people understand that certain mechanics of singing create certain results, and #Idina Menzel's performance demonstrates what happens when you push too hard. That she was singing live was a tribute to her, especially in those difficult conditions. But for whatever the reasons; she was over singing and got into vocal trouble. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
I think she tries to be a soprano instead of a mezzo; she's got a solid and beautiful voice, just a shit performance, dog move to critic on, everyone has shit days.
U intentionally sounded bad cuz its a mocking video right？Ur demonstration does not sound good. What u do is lowering larynx... and not even in a correct(natural) way.... There is nothing wrong with high placement(mask), her problem was that she had tensions going on her neck or maybe high larynx so that she sounded "jammed into nose", it was not even a good masked sound. (This is one of her worst live I guess)Your notes are just more unpleasant then hers cuz they are flat and very "un-projected", sounded like they are produced by children who mimic opera singing. Singing flat is what usually happens when u lower your larynx in a wrong way to sound "big or grounded" U might consider developing your mask. LOL. What you described as "mask" and what you do when u tried to mimic her is not proper mask singing. A correct mask sounds incredibly powerful, not "jammed".
"Keep it in the body!", so fukkin annoying!
Dear oh dear, where to start... It's rather telling that you mispronounce her name because it reveals a lack of knowledge about this performer - her talent and accomplishments - which means that your comments about her 'styling' at the start and about certain other vocal moments throughout the performance miss the point of who she is as a performer. She may not be your 'cup of tea' but to criticize her choices is very dangerous given how accomplished she is as an originator of iconic Broadway roles, Tony award winner, major recording artist and concert performer etc.).
I think we must acknowledge that hers is not a 'legitimate' sound, it is a more contemporary and brighter pop/broadway belt. I do agree with you that in certain scenarios - a difficult singing scenario such as this one - a little more classical technique at certain points in this song would give her a little more insurance. The issue for her though is that this technique would undoubtedly colour her sound in ways that may not necessarily be desired. Broadway styles run the range from highly legitimate to rock and roll, and combinations of both including rasp and twang and nasal and character sounds. It is not a genre that promotes one single 'ideal' sound of beautiful singing, which in fact is what many of us like about it. Leave the perfect technique to the opera house and enjoy Idina, trip-ups and all. You just don't reach her level in a very competitive field by playing it safe.
Blubble68 Thanks, a very well written comment. I will respond to your points.
Yes, I regret the mispronunciation of Idina's name; my mistake.
I chose to 'coach' her performance specifically because of 'who she is as a performer'. I want everyone one to know that no amount of accomplishments preclude a talent from dangerous vocal habits. Some of the most 'famous' singers have gotten nodes and worse because they weren't singing correctly.
I wasn't criticizing her 'choices', I was commenting on her technique, which for this particular performance caused her to push her vocal cords to a point of not being able to sustain her big 'money note'.
For my entire career I sang high powered R&B, and pop, and the Bel Canto technique helped me to have a healthy voicefor life while singing really tough, demanding music, that wasn't in any way classical or legitimate. While an opera-based method, Bel Canto allows you to sing any style without the covered, dark sound so often heard in legit voices. I coach my clients to cultivate their natural, unique sounding voice - not a phony, legit sound. Idina's voice is often very brittle and in her nose, so I think that her placement needs adjustment.
My philosophy is in alignment with yours when it comes to perfection. No one is perfect and what must transcend technical perfection always -- is connection with your lyric and the emotion that underlies it. But, that said, a person at Idina's level, who must guard and protect her instrument, should have a solid base of technique as a firm foundation that she can rely upon to maintain her career. So really, you must have both - technique to support vocal health, and emotional connection with your music and your audience.
I am hoping that Idina will not continue down the path of belting way too hard especially in her upper middle; will back off of the brutal compression she's putting on her vocal cords; and frankly, lighten up and give more depth and dimension to her singing. When you're in constant big belt mode you lose the delicacy and emotional intimacy that you need to connect with your audience when 'telling your story' through song.
And again, she's a marvelous singer, but even marvelous singers need tweaking now and then to maintain health and balance in the voice.
cheers, Beth Lawrence allaboutvoice.com
You can not be saying anything you cant sing shes better than you and thats how they made the song for her
Linda Hewitt Thanks for taking the time to make a comment. I wasn't trying to compare myself to Idina Menzel or criticize her, but simply to show how too much compression on the vocal cords (no matter how talented the singer is!) will cause pitch problems; shredding or rough vocals; and ultimately vocal nodules if this habit is continued over time.
Have you heard me sing? You might check out some of my other videos, but the great thing about youtube is that everyone can have their own opinion, but preferably without being mean about it. Cheers, Beth Lawrence, allaboutvoice.com
Open up your vowels!!!!!!!!
Exactly @Amy Collins!
Why?