I found that careful placement of both subs seemed to create the effect of more even bass across the entire room. Seems to me that the nodes created by each sub filled areas voided by the other. Since going through the experiments I can walk through the room and not notice significant lack of bass anywhere, while I used to have a few spots that felt completely dead. I placed one sub and did not connect the other, then played it and moved around the room to locate the dead zones, placing a mark on the floor or seat where each one was. Then I disconnected the first one and connected the second, and experimented with placement till the marked spots had good bass and the dead spots were elsewhere. Connected both and played it and seem to have much more even bass throughout the room. Of course, YMMV due to room size, shape, etc. but it seems to work for me.
Absolutely and that is the main reason for going dual or multiple sub . You can still improve by using 4 subs which will create a nearly perfect even bass accross the whole room when placed correctly . Above 4 the gains are really marginal and you probably won't hear the difference .
I had one SVS SB2000 and then bought another at a good price, but could never fully integrate them into my room. Got rid of both and got the smaller REL T/7 and immediately it fell into place. I picked a second one which I probably didn’t need for my smallish room, but got both of them dialed in and now I hardly ever think about them at all.
All I've got to say is once I added a second sub my listening pleasure went up a factor of two, I also agree the room is half the problem, but if you don't have deep pockets for room treatment or understanding partner a second sub is the a better way to go.
I recently added a second identical sub, old REL Q200E. All I can say is that from the second it was up and running, everything just sounded right ! All the little niggles just disappeared. Even my completely disinterested significant other noticed a huge improvement in the general "feel" and "presence" of the music. Just wish I had started with two subs before even buying the floorstanders 😁
I suppose the trick is in how the room response is, like Paul explains, and low frequencies are the hardest to direct or tame. So having a speaker with the subwoofers built in, or a transmission line style that can get those low frequencies really down there, can be more problematic. It seems the best thing one can really do is have main speakers that roll off around 40hz and let 2 carefully placed subs do the rest. Each side will have its own issues to work out because of the unevenness inherent in nearly all rooms . But in the end, the response should be easier to tune with the 2 subs separated out.
There’s no SUBstitute for quality. I replaced two Klipsch subs with one Rel T/X7 , and the difference was amazing as soon as I started listening. Much easier to blend in with my main speakers with no bass boom, and it totally disappears.
For a given budget, I rather have a single better, more powerful and cleaner sounding subwoofer costing twice of a mediocre subwoofer. A great subwoofer with very low distortion can not be located in a soundstage. If my budget is unlimited, I agree with Paul 😊
I would rather have two little subs (cheaper) rather than one. We might not be able to locate them, but I can clearly feel (and measure) the uneven sound pressure of the room with one sub. I can also feel that asymmetry if the door is open or closed.
@@johnpoo1662 Not my case, the second sub won't increase sound level and can lower volume of one axial mode. It's room and placement dependent. Two subs in the same spot will effectively increase the volumen, but that's not what we are looking for stereo home audio. It's not intuitive, but it's my experience. It's more about uniformity than sound level.
Have to agree with this one big time Paul. More subs can correct the limits of a small volume room that can't contain the entire low frequency wave in it. I would also add that subs are range extenders below to of most, so called full range speakers...but most of the time the room is a huge part of that issue as well. Dual subs can give you a decent fill correction in the main sweet spot, but for home theaters of medium size to large most will run at least 4 subs to balance off and fill most of the seating area. Paul, that sux big time, because the cost to modify the room compared to just adding 2 subs are insanely different, but who is going to have a room at least double the size of your listening room? What a great question and a great answer too.
Yep, room modes are a bass killer. More subs fill in more of the nulls that occur in every room. Having more subs isn't always about having "more" bass, it's about keeping all the bass you would have had, if it weren't for the nulls caused by room modes. You can't just wish them away with better speakers, or eq. 1/4 wavelength and room dimensions dictate where the nulls are. More subs in different locations active more room modes and even out the bass response across the room.
Yeah, but in the 'near field' experience, you have a sub right behind like the sofa you sit in. That would require just one good one and they tell me the effect is spectacular. Paul even mentioned this in response to a letter he got in another vid.
The best solution is to design the speakers / subs specifically for your room. Ok not if your talking £500 budget but as soon as you get into £5k plus it makes way more sense to make or have made your speakers. I made 4 way speakers comprising of 1 * 10” sub, 2 * 8” woofers, 1 * 6 1/2” mids and large ribbon tweeters. Having measured the room response I could design the speakers (fully active) to achieve a flat (or whatever I liked using active crossover) response from 18 to + 20000. The speakers are across the long wall with side firing subs going backwards slightly against this long wall. The front firing 8” woofers will go down to 35hz. Sealed box and large but they do exactly what I need them to do. It staggers me the amount some spend on “off the shelf” systems when for a fraction you can have bespoke which will always be superior if you or the designer / maker know what they are doing👍
IF you have the knowledge and ability to build cabinets, etc. also it sounds like what you have is going to be too large for some rooms, whereas a pair of good stand mounts with a small sub would fit better. The great thing about this hobby is that you get to do what YOU want. All that being said, DIY is always going to give more bang for the buck if you know what you’re doing.
If you have the time, knowledge and dedication to the art for sure lol. But at my small, level I think Pro ac, ATC, B&O and cie are more talented than me to make good speakers 😂✌️
Yep, you do need time, experience and dedication. But there is a lot of hoodoo voodoo in Hifi resulting in very expensive items justifying the high price tag by all means of marketing bs. Honestly for the average person speaker design is not that complicated. If your struggling with the woodwork and fabrication then there are businesses out there that can help. Regards the size of speakers and room size there is a huge misconception that speakers can be “to big” for the room. Aesthetically that may be true for your tastes or circumstances but not at all technically. Again it comes down to the implementation of the set up and room treatment👍
@@defsonic2884 And there is also knowledge required for speaker selection, enclosure design, port design. I think there are two other options, one is so direct sale speakers, the other is speaker kits , where that is all worked out for you.
Hey Paul! This is not your usual comment, this is a thorough ENDORSEMENT of your efforts! I'll offer a few suggestions here. Two is the correct answer for a STEREO, absolutely. A surround system actually needs four. This breaks down to one each on each side of the L/R mains & two more, one behind the front of the system & one centered in the rear, both of these from the .1 channel or effect channel. This took a bit to figure out but this adds up with precise critical settings to some very impactful cancellation of a lot of the standing waves you dislike so much, the exact opposite of what one would expect. Thanx, 'Ole Audiophile.
I get many arguments with bass supposedly being Omni-directional & all. I ask the same folks how many tweeters one uses in the same setup. Bass is swallowed whole in many decors with thick carpets & huge over-padded furniture in most living/listening rooms at the exact same level as their subs. It's primarily the critical precise settings that give what we require in terms of accuracy.
My room has 2 subs that work fantastic with their own active line level inputs. Right and left come in just fine. Currently frustrated as I finally set up parallel high input connections from the amp speaker outputs, and only the left sub works for some reason. The speakers both left and right sound great so I know the high level input circuits on the subs are working. But the right sub isn't giving me any bit of bass. It works fine with the line level but not the high level input. Not sure why. Hope I can figure it out...cuz the high level input on the left side sounds so perfectly coherent, and the speaker just blends in with the sub beautifully...like it finally has the extension it needs to not sound separate from the sub.
Going to tons of audio shows and demos I never ever heard one where the sub wasn't a separate thing. It always stood out to me as an 'added' oomph. Sometimes even a directional added oomph which is obviously just due to bad placement and setup. I wonder if it's a sensitivity I have that other don't have, or that, after having heard so many high end setups with subs, I never heard anyone who did it 'right'.
The shows might be more interested in showing or selling than in audio quality. In ,u setup which is not exotic, I can't hear or localize the subs from my chair or even very close to my main speakers and sub. It's more about setup, knowledge, patience, and the adequate subs/speakers combination, than money.
4 preffered. I mean 2 couples so you take care of the DB gain and still get sensational separation for the higher end lows and yes that makes sense. 60-120 where it becomes directional.
Ah, I didn't think of that. I thought it was because some subs put out not just very low frequency sound, but many go a bit above 80 hz which is the point above which your ear can hear slight phase differences between the sound in each ear, so can detect position and a stereo effect above 80 Hz. If the sub only put out below 80 Hz, there would be no stereo information so you could get away with just one, but above 80 Hz two would contribute some stereo information.
I have both books and cd and have also bought 2 REL quake subs and even without using the books and set up yet with the subs both on "wow" and without "Oh" totally different sounds. can only get better soon.
I suggest using three subwoofers. Two large ones in antiphase at the ends of the room and the third as a near seat in the listening position. Good bass guaranteed!
@@sandronejm Sorry, I don't know how to attach picture at RUclips service. Setup I proposed is quite simple - sealed subs in corners and mains in the centre of room. Room is rather big and forgiving because it is an attic under the big roof. Furthest walls are in the distance over 8 meters. My system is 5-way and inpired by LX521 - dipole solution from LinkwitzLab. Concept related to lowest frequencies is that we should not energize or "pumping" too much low bass energy into room. Moreover I have DSP in my system, so sometimes settings are so satisfying ... and opinions highly subjective ;-)
Of course two subs allow two different low frequency sounds to be reproduced, such as when two low frequency instruments are recorded on different channels. It is far better for definition than summing the channels into one speaker. Since I have a very large room and a near-field set up. I locate the subs with the primaries.
PAUL-I have to say this. From my begining of Sound Systems, I was told that hat there should be a Sub-Woofer for each channel. Please tell me your thoughts on that? Thank you, Greg Bardakos
Since the implementation of bass management it is better to cross over to subs in optimal locations of the room. Bass EQ is very affordable now so you can achieve much better LFE accuracy this way no matter the speaker location
Paul, I would suggest that you try using PSI Audio AVAA C20 active bass traps in all four of your room corners. Those actively interfere with the room's orthagonal modal resonaces, not just the fundamentals, but also the harmonics up thru the Schroeder frequency.
It's amazing how much home audio has come within the last 20 years. Subwoofers are supposed to inject the low bass missing for standard 2 or 3 way speakers.....NOW everyone is on this two subwoofer kick. I would much rather has one very MUSICAL / FAST subwoofer than two. Furthermore, the majority of people simply doesn't have room for two subwoofers because the majority if people do not have a dedicated movie room or entertainment room....they just use their living room/space. Ontop of that, now you're spending more $$$$.
Well.. The steps are really the same if you have 1 or 2.. And the real reason to use two (other than setting them up in stereo) is to just fill the room better and more evenly. And 2 needs to work a little less than just 1 to achieve the same thing. Absolutely nothing wrong with having just one. That works more than good enough for most people. My single sub sits right next to my right speaker. And trust me.. It adds ALOT! As long as the phase is correct... If that's wrong than everything sucks and sounds bad in the bass.
It depends on your mains I am running mine in a stereo configuration, but I am running bookshelf speakers crossed at about 75hz with the subs sitting under the speaker stand. If my mains went lower I would probably run the sub in a mono configuration but you can always try both ways and see what works best with your setup.
I thought the whole idea of a sub-woofer was that it is operating in MONO, but Paul is now indicating that they run in Stereo and therefore you need two. So my question is, why not run one sub-woofer in MONO? After all, the frequencies a sub-woofer is operating at are not directional.
if you have a giant room, then stereo subs make sense. but in most cases the directional stereo components (higher harmonics) come from the main speakers, and the sub just creates the feeling of the mains going very low.
They can be directional with small monitors because the relatively high low-pass filter (80 Hz) isn't a wall. I have perfectly experienced, even if I couldn't localize the subs, how the image of some instruments shifted slightly (0,3 m) towards the sub. With big speakers and a low crossover (24 dB/octabe) with one sub, or two subs in stereo with small monitors, I can't localize the subs, but I can perfectly feel the asymmetry in the sound pressure with one sub. That is a I feeling I don't like.
My understanding is that the benefit of running two subwoofers as opposed to one is that it helps mitigate the peaks and nulls that occurr when using only one. This has been my observable experience as well. When running one, there were definite hot spots throughout the room where bass was way stronger and even boomy, as well as nulls where there was almost no bass. It’s very strange. When I added the second one, it alleviated this greatly. It seems like I even had LESS bass in the areas of the room where there was too much, and more where there wasn’t any. I’m kind of new to all this so take that with a grain of salt.
@@RdandTrk1 You are right an two subs might help. In my setup, when I switch on the second sub, one of the room modes (axial between short walls mode) goes down a little bit. My experience is that worse rooms, often smaller but not always because geometry is more important, would benefit from two subs.
just buy a lounder sub and eq the lows up. measure the volume of each frequency where youre sitting. simple. two can make a stereo setup if the subs are spaced apart. put the sub in the middle too like what then you only hear bass on your right side
Precisely the reason why I strongly advocate standmount speakers combined with a subwoofer (or two) connected at high level. Tower speakers limit your choices, and, as they rarely produce bass/frequencies low enough, usually need augmenting with a subwoofer, so causing more issues with room placement. Plus towers are just plain ugly. They are. I don't want to stare at the back end of a freight train, don't care how good they sound - standmounts are more elegant and allow you to actually see the room. My preference is ONE REL sub, placed in the corner, connected at high level - it's all you need as it's non-directional. And it's not just Mahler with the bass position - it's the traditional Viennese layout of the orchestra.
@@bendeleon6546 Yes - if you go down the route of 2 subs. As low frequencies are not directional I don't subscribe to the need for "stereo subwoofers", and when I tried two RELs in my system they made the bass overpowering. I'm more interested in an accurate, neutral reproduction of music, with appropriate levels of bass to make a cello reverberate in your chest, or a Taiko drum filling the room, rather than needlessly shaking the house whilst listening to heavy metal.
Sorry Richard T but I’m in the opposite camp as you. I’m for floor standing tower speakers plus one corner sub to the right as Paul mentioned. You will never get the hard mid bass drum kick with standmounts and you won’t get the overall large stage presence. And I also disagree about the high level connection. This would be better for two sub set ups paired with standmount / bookshelf. The reason I like using the LF out to the sub is that it’s easy to control the subwoofer volume via remote control.
@@f430ferrari5 You're entitled to disagree - but as you don't know my set-up or room requirements then you can't possibly know what sound I achieve with my standmounts and my well-placed REL sub. Nor do I know yours, so I won't make generalisations about the wooly bass you're likely to have with connections made only at LF level.
@@richardt3371 I once had the type of set you currently have. Plenty of others do the same as yourself. Pretty sure I have better amps than you also. The mid bass drum kick I’m referring to is “directional”. What size is your Rel subwoofer. It’s most likely 10. A corner loaded 10 in sub is tight but since the mid bass is directional there is emphasis of the drummer to where the sub is. Even if you have a 12 then it simply doesn’t move fast enough to have the mid bass drum kick. It can’t compensate with the small standmounts you have. Look at it this way. Floor standing speakers should already give you awesome tight bass. If it’s not there then one issue may be not enough power. It’s better to have more amp wattage than what the speaker setting states. A corner loaded sub should only be for deeper bass. Below 80hz or so. This is non directional Better to be 12 also vs 10. If you’re going to claim your room is small then that has issues in itself and it’s difficult to place speakers where you can get a deep soundstage. It makes logical sense anyhow for below: A - one larger sub concept. Go with floor standing B - two smaller subs then book shelf / standmounts
Bass allways travels along walls, if you place your sups say 6 inches away from a wall, then put your seat right up against the opposite wall you will hear deeper bass!
I just got back from Boulder and listened to the FR30’s. I couldn’t have been more underwhelmed. I played some reference tracks I was extremely familiar with, including some bass heavy tracks. I took my sister with me and remember looking at her and telling her, “hold on to your hat” just before a dramatic low end bass line hit and……my jaw dropped. NOTHING- absolutely, positively zero low end punch. I also felt the overall tonality of the speakers were, well, odd. I’m thinking, I’m in a treated room with PS Audio’s best gear and came away from my third visit to PS Audio and this particular listening session, extremely disappointed. After just receiving a 2022 Golden Ear for these speakers from TAS, I’m beginning to wonder about the legitimacy of reviewers and reviews from this mag? Sorry Paul, I don’t get it. If your goal is to put these speakers in their “best light”, someone has dropped the ball. Might as well put the IRS V’s back in that room that I saw, now standing by themselves unhooked and unplayed. They ABSOLUTELY blew me away when I listed to them, across the street. In fact, I bought my very first pair of proper loudspeakers from one of your neighbors there in Boulder at Listen Up, in 1988. A pair of Infinity RS 6000. Yup, small world and you really need to “fix” that room? Or at 62 and a long time audiophile, maybe I don’t know what the el I’m talking about…
This actually happens allot, just like at audio shows, the more expensive your set is, the harder it is to match the equipment and room. There is a video about it from I believe Thamabar on the expensive PMC towers that sounded like shit, while a specialized room for THOSE speakers, it will blow you away. And this offcourse differs with every loudspeaker. Might not be you taste either cuz somehow every KEF speaker sounds bad to me, while I really don't think they actually do. (Sorry, English is not my first language )
Or maybe you just simply don’t like those speakers and you like others , doesn’t mean they’re not excellent you’re just not hearing the type of speaker you like. P.S. you also must have missed the part when he starts addressing the lack of bass In the FR30’s at the 2:30 and on , saying that at the current seating position there is a lack of bass and their working on getting that squared away.
No, he's right. Bass is lacking and weirder still is the imaging. I didn't realize someone had gone into Music Room 3 and rearranged what I had setup. Ugh. My sincere apologies to you and your sister. The imaging is fixed and we're working on the bass. The IRS and it's 12 woofers dominated the room. The FR30 makes the bass still but the room dominates it instead.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio No Paul, I did not see you on this visit. The guys were great (as usual) but I miss Kevin “Action” Jackson as I’m sure you do too. Did Innous steal him from you? I know you have a relationship with Innous and that probably led to Kev’s hire? He’s a good kid! I’m sure he’ll do well there.
Often it is problematic with only one subwoofer from the stereo input signal the bass under 60 (or whatever the separation frequency between the main speakers and the subwoofer is) is to deliver as a correct mono signal to the sub. With two SW, this doesn't happen at all, and especially in modern productions, a lot of space is used in the bass, which is often not reproduced correctly with a mono solution.
You cannot have stereo subs !! If you MUST use two of them stack them on top of each other and place them in the spot that gives the best bass sound at your listening spot ... that's all there is to know about dual subs ...
@Douglas Blake I know where you're coming from ... frequencies in the 100-120Hz range are often included in the range for subs ... you CAN hear the location of a musical instrument (s) I agree.... but this is NOT sub domain... sorry.... the sub domain is anywhere from 2-3Hz to about 70-75Hz .. these frequencies are positionally indiscernible as the entire listening environment becomes a pressure domain ... this is where a quarter wave is longer than the longest dimension in the listening room
of course bass / subwoofer material is the most sensitive to the listening space & position. yet, it is least directional. such irony is part of what makes audio systems compelling for enthusiasts of music, performance, sound, technology & physics. funny how a solution-set must entail so much to achieve oneness. "if 1 subwoofer is a good thing, 2 might be better." "nondirectionality" is relative. if a stereo (or multichannel) recording has distinct bass material in each channel, then it is possible to experience that upon playback. bass content can be captured, panned & amplified. it can be created & exaggerated synthetically. if you have the appropriate source, and set-up an appropriate audio system (a far field listening reference system), in a large hall (or better yet, a nice outdoor listening space), then one may experience & locate channel-specific low-freq. material. finding such source material and transferring all that to a near-field interior system/space is tricky, to put it mildly. (for me) given the success in creating quality hi-fi subs + the consensus about placement & smooth integration (thx Paul! & many others over the years), I have become more interested in resolving / delivering timbral accuracy of bass-generating instruments. admittedly, I like jazz combos playing acoustic instruments. it's a challenge yet to be fully addressed - perhaps because it is not so easily perceived or achieved.
I already that 2 sub's in my sound system.. Using car audio amp 4 channel... Car audio amp is beeter to used if u want have 2 subwoofer played by stereo mode.. For more info how it really works..asked me how
I have one activate sub in my setup, i have it set to sound as the bass is coming from my main speakers, all tracks i play new and old, have different base levels, but some of the electronic music i play has a heavy bass that vibrates the doors in my listening room, some tracks have little bass, i have a £2000 budget system and friends that listen to my system, like me think its a great sound, so i am happy with my kef cube sub as i think for me 2 subs would shake the house, but its cool if people want two subs its there choice! 😁👍
Most good pipe organs go down to 16Hz. Only two pipe organs in the world have pipes that speak at 8Hz - the air needed to set up an sound wave at 8Hz is significant.
Two subwoofers is way better than one Four subwoofers, two stacked on top of eachother on each side ..... is way better than two Once that you have tried four, there is simply no way of having only two subs 🙂
For the excitement of HT, subs are a no brainer. That said, I’ve never used subs for stereo listening. I have a pair of floor standing sealed units with an internal volume probably close to 100 liters that are perfectly functional down to below 25 Hz, so I would never dream of using subs on them. On the other hand, in another room, I have another completely different floorstanding pair that probably have about half that internal volume that are workable down to 37 Hz. I do sometimes miss that extra extension, depending on the program material, but I don’t know if the extra trouble and expensive is worth adding subs. I’m wondering what the general consensus is about what level of extension no longer requires subs to augment stereo, and what a pair of active subs should cost relative to the stereo pair..🤔
Two subwoofers produce an even sound field, eliminating or greatly reducing bass peaks and nulls in the room. With double the power, headroom is also increased, but that’s not the primary reason for having two subs, it’s the smooth bass field throughout the room.
2 subwoofers is ideal, i just use one at the moment, but planning to buy another later, but i rather buy 1 good sub first and buy another later than 2 cheap subs, subs Below €1000 have a lot of comprimises
If you can do it try getting that one good sub and two cheap subs and do a sound test with the different combinations. My guess you're going to find two cheaper subs will sound just as good as one expensive and one cheaper one.
@@CesarGonzalez-kt7vp their is a difference to the cabinet, driver and sq and also distortion, to favor of the more expensive sub, if you can’t afford to go with two of the more expensive subs its better to go with 2 cheaper options, but i think its better to go with the better sub first and getting another later if the budget allows it
@@andreasmoller9798 I failed to mention my first sub is expensive one and after living with it for 20 years I bought the cheaper one. If I had to do it over again I would have tried two cheaper one first. 🖖
@@CesarGonzalez-kt7vp yes you have to do whats right for you, i had a major improvment when i upgraded my €600 sub to €1300 sub, and its 13,8 inch inch versus 10 inch, 13,8 inch despite its size is a lot better for music tighter more controlled, despite being more powerful, its dissapears in the sound and for movies well the 10 inch can’t compete, at 20 hz the 13,8 inch sub play nearly 16 db louder witch is a lot, for music its barely moving, while my old cheaper sub was moving in and out crazy, at same level the more expensive sub is not even making a sweat
You're just not seeing the whole room. The bar, strip poles, kitchen, ultra-expensive fine art and gaming facilities are on the other side. Don't forget to get yourself a pedicure while you're listening to your favorite music! At PS Audio, we aim to please. 😁
What an imbecilic question. You ask this question of someone with a financial incentive to bias the answer? I'll give you the answer and I'm not in the business: One sub is MUCH better than no subs. Two subs is about 20% better than one sub. No matter what you do you'll never get anywhere without a microphone and dsp software such as REW, ARC Gen, Dirac, etc. You'll never blend the sub right even though you will believe you did.
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1 sub correctly set up is fantastic.
I had one sub for decades and it sounded great. I recently added another sub and it sounds even better. The End :)
I found that careful placement of both subs seemed to create the effect of more even bass across the entire room. Seems to me that the nodes created by each sub filled areas voided by the other. Since going through the experiments I can walk through the room and not notice significant lack of bass anywhere, while I used to have a few spots that felt completely dead. I placed one sub and did not connect the other, then played it and moved around the room to locate the dead zones, placing a mark on the floor or seat where each one was. Then I disconnected the first one and connected the second, and experimented with placement till the marked spots had good bass and the dead spots were elsewhere. Connected both and played it and seem to have much more even bass throughout the room. Of course, YMMV due to room size, shape, etc. but it seems to work for me.
This is quite possible ... but I do maintain that the two subs must be in phase at all times .. so it's best if they're run in mono ..
Absolutely and that is the main reason for going dual or multiple sub . You can still improve by using 4 subs which will create a nearly perfect even bass accross the whole room when placed correctly . Above 4 the gains are really marginal and you probably won't hear the difference .
is it ok to use a y connector for 2 subs ?
I had one SVS SB2000 and then bought another at a good price, but could never fully integrate them into my room. Got rid of both and got the smaller REL T/7 and immediately it fell into place. I picked a second one which I probably didn’t need for my smallish room, but got both of them dialed in and now I hardly ever think about them at all.
All I've got to say is once I added a second sub my listening pleasure went up a factor of two, I also agree the room is half the problem, but if you don't have deep pockets for room treatment or understanding partner a second sub is the a better way to go.
3:31 Got a flashback to me in class there for a second.
I recently added a second identical sub, old REL Q200E.
All I can say is that from the second it was up and running, everything just sounded right !
All the little niggles just disappeared. Even my completely disinterested significant other noticed a huge improvement in the general "feel" and "presence" of the music.
Just wish I had started with two subs before even buying the floorstanders 😁
I suppose the trick is in how the room response is, like Paul explains, and low frequencies are the hardest to direct or tame. So having a speaker with the subwoofers built in, or a transmission line style that can get those low frequencies really down there, can be more problematic. It seems the best thing one can really do is have main speakers that roll off around 40hz and let 2 carefully placed subs do the rest. Each side will have its own issues to work out because of the unevenness inherent in nearly all rooms . But in the end, the response should be easier to tune with the 2 subs separated out.
There’s no SUBstitute for quality. I replaced two Klipsch subs with one Rel T/X7 , and the difference was amazing as soon as I started listening. Much easier to blend in with my main speakers with no bass boom, and it totally disappears.
YOUR QUITE WELCOME 😂
For a given budget, I rather have a single better, more powerful and cleaner sounding subwoofer costing twice of a mediocre subwoofer. A great subwoofer with very low distortion can not be located in a soundstage. If my budget is unlimited, I agree with Paul 😊
if you can locate it in an optimal position, and have an optimal crossover, then why not?
I would rather have two little subs (cheaper) rather than one. We might not be able to locate them, but I can clearly feel (and measure) the uneven sound pressure of the room with one sub. I can also feel that asymmetry if the door is open or closed.
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez also 2 subs dont have to be driven as hard as one for the same SPL
@@johnpoo1662 A sub costing twice as much can likely give you deeper more linear bass and also more SPL. Of course without a budget, go for two.
@@johnpoo1662 Not my case, the second sub won't increase sound level and can lower volume of one axial mode. It's room and placement dependent. Two subs in the same spot will effectively increase the volumen, but that's not what we are looking for stereo home audio. It's not intuitive, but it's my experience. It's more about uniformity than sound level.
Have to agree with this one big time Paul. More subs can correct the limits of a small volume room that can't contain the entire low frequency wave in it.
I would also add that subs are range extenders below to of most, so called full range speakers...but most of the time the room is a huge part of that issue as well.
Dual subs can give you a decent fill correction in the main sweet spot, but for home theaters of medium size to large most will run at least 4 subs to balance off and fill most of the seating area.
Paul, that sux big time, because the cost to modify the room compared to just adding 2 subs are insanely different, but who is going to have a room at least double the size of your listening room?
What a great question and a great answer too.
My setup for stereo music is a pair of focal speakers and two subs , Marantz receiver , rotel end amplifier. Set as full range ,lfe+main.
Yep, room modes are a bass killer. More subs fill in more of the nulls that occur in every room. Having more subs isn't always about having "more" bass, it's about keeping all the bass you would have had, if it weren't for the nulls caused by room modes. You can't just wish them away with better speakers, or eq. 1/4 wavelength and room dimensions dictate where the nulls are. More subs in different locations active more room modes and even out the bass response across the room.
Yeah, but in the 'near field' experience, you have a sub right behind like the sofa you sit in. That would require just one good one and they tell me the effect is spectacular. Paul even mentioned this in response to a letter he got in another vid.
Youı hit the nail on the head! best expleanation.
Paul what about those near Field stereo subs you were talking about? What crossover frequency did you find favorable?
The best solution is to design the speakers / subs specifically for your room. Ok not if your talking £500 budget but as soon as you get into £5k plus it makes way more sense to make or have made your speakers.
I made 4 way speakers comprising of 1 * 10” sub, 2 * 8” woofers, 1 * 6 1/2” mids and large ribbon tweeters. Having measured the room response I could design the speakers (fully active) to achieve a flat (or whatever I liked using active crossover) response from 18 to + 20000. The speakers are across the long wall with side firing subs going backwards slightly against this long wall. The front firing 8” woofers will go down to 35hz. Sealed box and large but they do exactly what I need them to do.
It staggers me the amount some spend on “off the shelf” systems when for a fraction you can have bespoke which will always be superior if you or the designer / maker know what they are doing👍
I agree with this 100%
IF you have the knowledge and ability to build cabinets, etc. also it sounds like what you have is going to be too large for some rooms, whereas a pair of good stand mounts with a small sub would fit better. The great thing about this hobby is that you get to do what YOU want.
All that being said, DIY is always going to give more bang for the buck if you know what you’re doing.
If you have the time, knowledge and dedication to the art for sure lol. But at my small, level I think Pro ac, ATC, B&O and cie are more talented than me to make good speakers 😂✌️
Yep, you do need time, experience and dedication. But there is a lot of hoodoo voodoo in Hifi resulting in very expensive items justifying the high price tag by all means of marketing bs. Honestly for the average person speaker design is not that complicated. If your struggling with the woodwork and fabrication then there are businesses out there that can help. Regards the size of speakers and room size there is a huge misconception that speakers can be “to big” for the room. Aesthetically that may be true for your tastes or circumstances but not at all technically. Again it comes down to the implementation of the set up and room treatment👍
@@defsonic2884 And there is also knowledge required for speaker selection, enclosure design, port design.
I think there are two other options, one is so direct sale speakers, the other is speaker kits , where that is all worked out for you.
Off topic, was the audio on bluray discs dsd or pcm?
Hi Paul Whta's "wrong" with the Powerplant? The meters are not showing constantly
Hey Paul! This is not your usual comment, this is a thorough ENDORSEMENT of your efforts! I'll offer a few suggestions here. Two is the correct answer for a STEREO, absolutely. A surround system actually needs four. This breaks down to one each on each side of the L/R mains & two more, one behind the front of the system & one centered in the rear, both of these from the .1 channel or effect channel. This took a bit to figure out but this adds up with precise critical settings to some very impactful cancellation of a lot of the standing waves you dislike so much, the exact opposite of what one would expect. Thanx, 'Ole Audiophile.
I get many arguments with bass supposedly being Omni-directional & all. I ask the same folks how many tweeters one uses in the same setup. Bass is swallowed whole in many decors with thick carpets & huge over-padded furniture in most living/listening rooms at the exact same level as their subs. It's primarily the critical precise settings that give what we require in terms of accuracy.
Would it be two individuals or 1 double
My room has 2 subs that work fantastic with their own active line level inputs. Right and left come in just fine. Currently frustrated as I finally set up parallel high input connections from the amp speaker outputs, and only the left sub works for some reason. The speakers both left and right sound great so I know the high level input circuits on the subs are working. But the right sub isn't giving me any bit of bass. It works fine with the line level but not the high level input. Not sure why. Hope I can figure it out...cuz the high level input on the left side sounds so perfectly coherent, and the speaker just blends in with the sub beautifully...like it finally has the extension it needs to not sound separate from the sub.
Isn’t the Tympany in an orchestra in the upper rear right side?
Excellent question!
Which doesn't doesn't make sense in Suwanee explain directions this reporting directly
I have the BHK signature preamp, but it does not have any sub-woofer output RCA connections! How do I add subwoofers to the preamp?
Thanks Sir for the info
Is it best to have 2 identical subs, or dissimilar subs that might react differently?
Best to have identical.
Going to tons of audio shows and demos I never ever heard one where the sub wasn't a separate thing. It always stood out to me as an 'added' oomph. Sometimes even a directional added oomph which is obviously just due to bad placement and setup. I wonder if it's a sensitivity I have that other don't have, or that, after having heard so many high end setups with subs, I never heard anyone who did it 'right'.
The shows might be more interested in showing or selling than in audio quality. In ,u setup which is not exotic, I can't hear or localize the subs from my chair or even very close to my main speakers and sub. It's more about setup, knowledge, patience, and the adequate subs/speakers combination, than money.
Could be but more likely it's poor setup. The shows are hard. Hotel room and do the best you can.
4 preffered. I mean 2 couples so you take care of the DB gain and still get sensational separation for the higher end lows and yes that makes sense. 60-120 where it becomes directional.
Ah, I didn't think of that. I thought it was because some subs put out not just very low frequency sound, but many go a bit above 80 hz which is the point above which your ear can hear slight phase differences between the sound in each ear, so can detect position and a stereo effect above 80 Hz. If the sub only put out below 80 Hz, there would be no stereo information so you could get away with just one, but above 80 Hz two would contribute some stereo information.
I have both books and cd and have also bought 2 REL quake subs and even without using the books and set up yet with the subs both on "wow" and without "Oh" totally different sounds. can only get better soon.
I’m seeing rel carbon subwoofer in an array 6 total in some really high end systems … would love to know the rational pro/cons
Is a regular stereo sound track 2.1 or does it have 2 tracks for low frequency channel .....i.e. 2.2 one being left lfc and one being right lfc
A regular Stereo sound track is 2.0 There is no LFE channel in a stereo recording (except perhaps for some esoteric audiophile label recordings).
I tried 2 subs, left & right and I was not getting that sweet output.
I stacked them on the right corner and now I have strong tight bass.
Thats your story and your stickin to it mine too i agree
For that expensive of a speaker that can go to 23 hz the lower cabinet should be separate so it can be located for best effect. Call it the FR30-2!
I suggest using three subwoofers. Two large ones in antiphase at the ends of the room and the third as a near seat in the listening position. Good bass guaranteed!
Can you send a picture of the room illustration just to me check where exactly did you put the sub?
@@sandronejm Sorry, I don't know how to attach picture at RUclips service. Setup I proposed is quite simple - sealed subs in corners and mains in the centre of room. Room is rather big and forgiving because it is an attic under the big roof. Furthest walls are in the distance over 8 meters.
My system is 5-way and inpired by LX521 - dipole solution from LinkwitzLab.
Concept related to lowest frequencies is that we should not energize or "pumping" too much low bass energy into room. Moreover I have DSP in my system, so sometimes settings are so satisfying ... and opinions highly subjective ;-)
Of course two subs allow two different low frequency sounds to be reproduced, such as when two low frequency instruments are recorded on different channels. It is far better for definition than summing the channels into one speaker. Since I have a very large room and a near-field set up. I locate the subs with the primaries.
PAUL-I have to say this. From my begining of Sound Systems, I was told that hat there should be a Sub-Woofer for each channel. Please tell me your thoughts on that? Thank you, Greg Bardakos
Since the implementation of bass management it is better to cross over to subs in optimal locations of the room.
Bass EQ is very affordable now so you can achieve much better LFE accuracy this way no matter the speaker location
I’m a “ this is gonna take forever to place correctly , but I’m putting four subs in here “ kinda guy
What kind of setup should I have if I listen to Mongolian throat singing, pipe organs and sound effects records with a lot of train horns?
at least a stereo pair of martinis.
Low level input or high?!
So, are we going to see some PS Audio subwoofers? 😊😉
Paul, I would suggest that you try using PSI Audio AVAA C20 active bass traps in all four of your room corners. Those actively interfere with the room's orthagonal modal resonaces, not just the fundamentals, but also the harmonics up thru the Schroeder frequency.
Active bass traps! I haven't seen these for years. Not since Nelson Pass did his Shadow or Phantom. Thanks!
It's amazing how much home audio has come within the last 20 years. Subwoofers are supposed to inject the low bass missing for standard 2 or 3 way speakers.....NOW everyone is on this two subwoofer kick. I would much rather has one very MUSICAL / FAST subwoofer than two. Furthermore, the majority of people simply doesn't have room for two subwoofers because the majority if people do not have a dedicated movie room or entertainment room....they just use their living room/space. Ontop of that, now you're spending more $$$$.
Well.. The steps are really the same if you have 1 or 2.. And the real reason to use two (other than setting them up in stereo) is to just fill the room better and more evenly. And 2 needs to work a little less than just 1 to achieve the same thing. Absolutely nothing wrong with having just one. That works more than good enough for most people.
My single sub sits right next to my right speaker. And trust me.. It adds ALOT! As long as the phase is correct... If that's wrong than everything sucks and sounds bad in the bass.
We don't need subwoofers when we use our big old 15" Cerwin Vegas ;)
@@clickbeetle2720 Very epic ;)
Easy fix. Just grab yourself an EQ and make that baby smile! It will make your bass boom and make your highs sizzle
I really live the FR30s and almost want to blind buy, I only have 1.6watts though haha
If you have two should you send the L&R signals to both, or just send the L or R to each, respectively?
It depends on your mains I am running mine in a stereo configuration, but I am running bookshelf speakers crossed at about 75hz with the subs sitting under the speaker stand. If my mains went lower I would probably run the sub in a mono configuration but you can always try both ways and see what works best with your setup.
Two is always better than one; that's the principle of life.
I thought the whole idea of a sub-woofer was that it is operating in MONO, but Paul is now indicating that they run in Stereo and therefore you need two. So my question is, why not run one sub-woofer in MONO? After all, the frequencies a sub-woofer is operating at are not directional.
if you have a giant room, then stereo subs make sense. but in most cases the directional stereo components (higher harmonics) come from the main speakers, and the sub just creates the feeling of the mains going very low.
They can be directional with small monitors because the relatively high low-pass filter (80 Hz) isn't a wall. I have perfectly experienced, even if I couldn't localize the subs, how the image of some instruments shifted slightly (0,3 m) towards the sub. With big speakers and a low crossover (24 dB/octabe) with one sub, or two subs in stereo with small monitors, I can't localize the subs, but I can perfectly feel the asymmetry in the sound pressure with one sub. That is a I feeling I don't like.
Not quite true a placement of sub can change the sound so yes it can be directional
My understanding is that the benefit of running two subwoofers as opposed to one is that it helps mitigate the peaks and nulls that occurr when using only one. This has been my observable experience as well. When running one, there were definite hot spots throughout the room where bass was way stronger and even boomy, as well as nulls where there was almost no bass. It’s very strange. When I added the second one, it alleviated this greatly. It seems like I even had LESS bass in the areas of the room where there was too much, and more where there wasn’t any. I’m kind of new to all this so take that with a grain of salt.
@@RdandTrk1 You are right an two subs might help. In my setup, when I switch on the second sub, one of the room modes (axial between short walls mode) goes down a little bit. My experience is that worse rooms, often smaller but not always because geometry is more important, would benefit from two subs.
just buy a lounder sub and eq the lows up. measure the volume of each frequency where youre sitting. simple. two can make a stereo setup if the subs are spaced apart. put the sub in the middle too like what then you only hear bass on your right side
Why didn't you design the room around the equipment>
It is entirely dependent on the room!
REL is the best for 2 channel .... right?
Precisely the reason why I strongly advocate standmount speakers combined with a subwoofer (or two) connected at high level. Tower speakers limit your choices, and, as they rarely produce bass/frequencies low enough, usually need augmenting with a subwoofer, so causing more issues with room placement. Plus towers are just plain ugly. They are. I don't want to stare at the back end of a freight train, don't care how good they sound - standmounts are more elegant and allow you to actually see the room.
My preference is ONE REL sub, placed in the corner, connected at high level - it's all you need as it's non-directional.
And it's not just Mahler with the bass position - it's the traditional Viennese layout of the orchestra.
Shoul the two (2) subs be of the same model and specifications?
@@bendeleon6546 Yes - if you go down the route of 2 subs. As low frequencies are not directional I don't subscribe to the need for "stereo subwoofers", and when I tried two RELs in my system they made the bass overpowering. I'm more interested in an accurate, neutral reproduction of music, with appropriate levels of bass to make a cello reverberate in your chest, or a Taiko drum filling the room, rather than needlessly shaking the house whilst listening to heavy metal.
Sorry Richard T but I’m in the opposite camp as you.
I’m for floor standing tower speakers plus one corner sub to the right as Paul mentioned.
You will never get the hard mid bass drum kick with standmounts and you won’t get the overall large stage presence.
And I also disagree about the high level connection. This would be better for two sub set ups paired with standmount / bookshelf.
The reason I like using the LF out to the sub is that it’s easy to control the subwoofer volume via remote control.
@@f430ferrari5 You're entitled to disagree - but as you don't know my set-up or room requirements then you can't possibly know what sound I achieve with my standmounts and my well-placed REL sub. Nor do I know yours, so I won't make generalisations about the wooly bass you're likely to have with connections made only at LF level.
@@richardt3371 I once had the type of set you currently have. Plenty of others do the same as yourself.
Pretty sure I have better amps than you also.
The mid bass drum kick I’m referring to is “directional”.
What size is your Rel subwoofer. It’s most likely 10. A corner loaded 10 in sub is tight but since the mid bass is directional there is emphasis of the drummer to where the sub is.
Even if you have a 12 then it simply doesn’t move fast enough to have the mid bass drum kick. It can’t compensate with the small standmounts you have.
Look at it this way. Floor standing speakers should already give you awesome tight bass. If it’s not there then one issue may be not enough power. It’s better to have more amp wattage than what the speaker setting states.
A corner loaded sub should only be for deeper bass. Below 80hz or so. This is non directional Better to be 12 also vs 10.
If you’re going to claim your room is small then that has issues in itself and it’s difficult to place speakers where you can get a deep soundstage.
It makes logical sense anyhow for below:
A - one larger sub concept. Go with floor standing
B - two smaller subs then book shelf / standmounts
Bass allways travels along walls, if you place your sups say 6 inches away from a wall, then put your seat right up against the opposite wall you will hear deeper bass!
I just got back from Boulder and listened to the FR30’s. I couldn’t have been more underwhelmed. I played some reference tracks I was extremely familiar with, including some bass heavy tracks. I took my sister with me and remember looking at her and telling her, “hold on to your hat” just before a dramatic low end bass line hit and……my jaw dropped. NOTHING- absolutely, positively zero low end punch. I also felt the overall tonality of the speakers were, well, odd. I’m thinking, I’m in a treated room with PS Audio’s best gear and came away from my third visit to PS Audio and this particular listening session, extremely disappointed. After just receiving a 2022 Golden Ear for these speakers from TAS, I’m beginning to wonder about the legitimacy of reviewers and reviews from this mag? Sorry Paul, I don’t get it. If your goal is to put these speakers in their “best light”, someone has dropped the ball. Might as well put the IRS V’s back in that room that I saw, now standing by themselves unhooked and unplayed. They ABSOLUTELY blew me away when I listed to them, across the street. In fact, I bought my very first pair of proper loudspeakers from one of your neighbors there in Boulder at Listen Up, in 1988. A pair of Infinity RS 6000. Yup, small world and you really need to “fix” that room? Or at 62 and a long time audiophile, maybe I don’t know what the el I’m talking about…
This actually happens allot, just like at audio shows, the more expensive your set is, the harder it is to match the equipment and room. There is a video about it from I believe Thamabar on the expensive PMC towers that sounded like shit, while a specialized room for THOSE speakers, it will blow you away. And this offcourse differs with every loudspeaker. Might not be you taste either cuz somehow every KEF speaker sounds bad to me, while I really don't think they actually do. (Sorry, English is not my first language )
Or maybe you just simply don’t like those speakers and you like others , doesn’t mean they’re not excellent you’re just not hearing the type of speaker you like.
P.S. you also must have missed the part when he starts addressing the lack of bass In the FR30’s at the 2:30 and on , saying that at the current seating position there is a lack of bass and their working on getting that squared away.
No, he's right. Bass is lacking and weirder still is the imaging. I didn't realize someone had gone into Music Room 3 and rearranged what I had setup. Ugh. My sincere apologies to you and your sister. The imaging is fixed and we're working on the bass. The IRS and it's 12 woofers dominated the room. The FR30 makes the bass still but the room dominates it instead.
BTW, when were you there? Did I meet you and say hi?
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio No Paul, I did not see you on this visit. The guys were great (as usual) but I miss Kevin “Action” Jackson as I’m sure you do too. Did Innous steal him from you? I know you have a relationship with Innous and that probably led to Kev’s hire? He’s a good kid! I’m sure he’ll do well there.
It's Gothenburg, as in 'Goth-n-burg' 😀
Often it is problematic with only one subwoofer from the stereo input signal the bass under 60 (or whatever the separation frequency between the main speakers and the subwoofer is) is to deliver as a correct mono signal to the sub. With two SW, this doesn't happen at all, and especially in modern productions, a lot of space is used in the bass, which is often not reproduced correctly with a mono solution.
You cannot have stereo subs !!
If you MUST use two of them stack them on top of each other and place them in the spot that gives the best bass sound at your listening spot ... that's all there is to know about dual subs ...
@Douglas Blake I know where you're coming from ... frequencies in the 100-120Hz range are often included in the range for subs ... you CAN hear the location of a musical instrument (s) I agree.... but this is NOT sub domain... sorry.... the sub domain is anywhere from 2-3Hz to about 70-75Hz .. these frequencies are positionally indiscernible as the entire listening environment becomes a pressure domain ... this is where a quarter wave is longer than the longest dimension in the listening room
of course bass / subwoofer material is the most sensitive to the listening space & position. yet, it is least directional. such irony is part of what makes audio systems compelling for enthusiasts of music, performance, sound, technology & physics. funny how a solution-set must entail so much to achieve oneness. "if 1 subwoofer is a good thing, 2 might be better." "nondirectionality" is relative. if a stereo (or multichannel) recording has distinct bass material in each channel, then it is possible to experience that upon playback. bass content can be captured, panned & amplified. it can be created & exaggerated synthetically. if you have the appropriate source, and set-up an appropriate audio system (a far field listening reference system), in a large hall (or better yet, a nice outdoor listening space), then one may experience & locate channel-specific low-freq. material. finding such source material and transferring all that to a near-field interior system/space is tricky, to put it mildly. (for me) given the success in creating quality hi-fi subs + the consensus about placement & smooth integration (thx Paul! & many others over the years), I have become more interested in resolving / delivering timbral accuracy of bass-generating instruments. admittedly, I like jazz combos playing acoustic instruments. it's a challenge yet to be fully addressed - perhaps because it is not so easily perceived or achieved.
The goal with the subwoofer is to not hear it? I say if you're not hearing it then the subwoofer it's not plugged in
You can make your two subwoofers disappear. But can your neighbors make your two subwoofer’s disappear.
🤔
I already that 2 sub's in my sound system..
Using car audio amp 4 channel...
Car audio amp is beeter to used if u want have 2 subwoofer played by stereo mode..
For more info how it really works..asked me how
I have one activate sub in my setup, i have it set to sound as the bass is coming from my main speakers, all tracks i play new and old, have different base levels, but some of the electronic music i play has a heavy bass that vibrates the doors in my listening room, some tracks have little bass, i have a £2000 budget system and friends that listen to my system, like me think its a great sound, so i am happy with my kef cube sub as i think for me 2 subs would shake the house, but its cool if people want two subs its there choice! 😁👍
The correct number is 7 in a 7.7.4 setup.
Stereo subs is always better, end of discussion.
Most good pipe organs go down to 16Hz. Only two pipe organs in the world have pipes that speak at 8Hz - the air needed to set up an sound wave at 8Hz is significant.
Or spend money on proper treatment, if you can, which is likely more effective
Paul. i have £500 budget for subs. 2 at £250 or 1 for £500. Just in case you needed help with the Maths😅
Please do 8 subs versus 46
Paul, you’ve been hacked.
I thought two subs would cansel eachother out... ? If not why ?
crazy how they built the room from ground up with basicaly no budget limit and they still have room modes in bass area
Two subwoofers is way better than one
Four subwoofers, two stacked on top of eachother on each side ..... is way better than two
Once that you have tried four, there is simply no way of having only two subs 🙂
For the excitement of HT, subs are a no brainer. That said, I’ve never used subs for stereo listening. I have a pair of floor standing sealed units with an internal volume probably close to 100 liters that are perfectly functional down to below 25 Hz, so I would never dream of using subs on them. On the other hand, in another room, I have another completely different floorstanding pair that probably have about half that internal volume that are workable down to 37 Hz. I do sometimes miss that extra extension, depending on the program material, but I don’t know if the extra trouble and expensive is worth adding subs. I’m wondering what the general consensus is about what level of extension no longer requires subs to augment stereo, and what a pair of active subs should cost relative to the stereo pair..🤔
I would think that having two subs - one for each channel - would be preferred so that you'll get all of the low frequency signals.
Why buy one when for twice the price you can have two?
That follows the first audiophile law: If it cost more, it must be better.
@@hugobloemers4425 Maybe a little bit. You still choose based on your needs. Then buy two.
Two subwoofers produce an even sound field, eliminating or greatly reducing bass peaks and nulls in the room. With double the power, headroom is also increased, but that’s not the primary reason for having two subs, it’s the smooth bass field throughout the room.
It all depends on the room size. In my medium size room 1 sub is enough. 2 would be overkill.
If the point is to account for bad room modes then a smaller room would likely be in MORE need for more subs
Paper...
There's a big difference between an audiophile and an audio engineer ...
❤❤❤❤ and you are an Electrical Engineer also.
2 subwoofers is ideal, i just use one at the moment, but planning to buy another later, but i rather buy 1 good sub first and buy another later than 2 cheap subs, subs Below €1000 have a lot of comprimises
If you can do it try getting that one good sub and two cheap subs and do a sound test with the different combinations. My guess you're going to find two cheaper subs will sound just as good as one expensive and one cheaper one.
@@CesarGonzalez-kt7vp their is a difference to the cabinet, driver and sq and also distortion, to favor of the more expensive sub, if you can’t afford to go with two of the more expensive subs its better to go with 2 cheaper options, but i think its better to go with the better sub first and getting another later if the budget allows it
@@andreasmoller9798 I failed to mention my first sub is expensive one and after living with it for 20 years I bought the cheaper one. If I had to do it over again I would have tried two cheaper one first. 🖖
@@CesarGonzalez-kt7vp yes you have to do whats right for you, i had a major improvment when i upgraded my €600 sub to €1300 sub, and its 13,8 inch inch versus 10 inch, 13,8 inch despite its size is a lot better for music tighter more controlled, despite being more powerful, its dissapears in the sound and for movies well the 10 inch can’t compete, at 20 hz the 13,8 inch sub play nearly 16 db louder witch is a lot, for music its barely moving, while my old cheaper sub was moving in and out crazy, at same level the more expensive sub is not even making a sweat
Why does your listening room look so boring?
You're just not seeing the whole room. The bar, strip poles, kitchen, ultra-expensive fine art and gaming facilities are on the other side. Don't forget to get yourself a pedicure while you're listening to your favorite music! At PS Audio, we aim to please. 😁
If you feel the need of adding more subwoofers it means that your only Sub is not good enough
What an imbecilic question. You ask this question of someone with a financial incentive to bias the answer? I'll give you the answer and I'm not in the business: One sub is MUCH better than no subs. Two subs is about 20% better than one sub. No matter what you do you'll never get anywhere without a microphone and dsp software such as REW, ARC Gen, Dirac, etc. You'll never blend the sub right even though you will believe you did.