Part 4: あ゙, か゚, ラ゚, ウ゚… Rare Kana with Diacritics [Japanese Kana They Don't Teach You at School]
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- How to pronounce kana like あ゙ ?
This video tells the untold story about the dakuten and the handakuten.
Featuring:
あ゙
か゚, き゚, く゚, け゚, こ゚
ラ゚, リ゚, ル゚, レ゚, ロ゚
ウ゚
Playlist for the entire series • Part 0: A Refresher on...
Example of あ゙
• 【プロ野球パ】細川がシャウト！「あ゛あ゛ぁ゛...
Further on か゚, き゚, く゚, け゚, こ゚ (in Japanese)
www.med.or.jp/...
Screenshot on ラ゚, リ゚, ル゚, レ゚, ロ゚
ttps://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/854017/22
Source on ウ゚ (page 6 to the right)
www.let.osaka-u...
Kanas used for spelling such as セ゚, さ゚, ツ゚/ト゚ were mentioned but not in depth (since there's so many of them)
The noise in this video is from the balcony door. It's only like this because I filmed it during a typhoon-y day and there's not much I could do about it...
![Part 5: Hentaigana [Japanese Kana They Don't Teach You at School]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sOep4zfzJHQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![Part 5: Hentaigana [Japanese Kana They Don't Teach You at School]](/img/tr.png)
![Part 1: Wi (ゐ/ヰ) & We (ゑ/ヱ) [Japanese Kanas They Don't Teach You at School] (汉语字幕)](/img/1.gif)
I've seen あ゛ in manga. From context it's obviously a rough scream sound. Funny, I independently thought up using ラ゜ for la etc. They should use it more.
I think the L-R distinction needs to come back; it seems like a lot of Japanese English students confuse the two letters, and it could serve as a good learning tool to make a distinction between them, especially in "katakana English"
yeah i am not sure why, but perhaps this would open the floodgate for other sounds as well
Come back how? It was never a thing. ら゚ was invented by Japanese linguists.
Otherwise, I don't disagree!
that is a slippery slope. why not have separate characters for tapped vs trilled r, like in spanish, or voiced vs voiceless r, like in welsh, or whatever?
@@feralcatgirl or characters for "th" sound
I feel like the bigger issue here is just the level of expectation when it comes to English.
Personally, I am Polish, and while we _do_ use the same alphabet as the English, nobody cares that "ough" can be read in four different ways. Or that "But", "Boot" and "Bat" are using three very different sounds, with "But" being somewhere in-between the Polish "A" and "O". Or that there are all sorts of weird spellings, some of which are completely unnatural to a Polish native. You are still supposed to just learn proper orthography and pronunciation of English (the fact that English in our schools has already been crap when I was in school, and schools' level has only gone down since is a different issue altogether).
For obvious reasons, I don't know how difficult the Japanese curriculum is, and if English is just being treated as a second-rate subject due to time constraints, but I cannot imagine the spelling being so difficult that students can't just memorize it. To me, it sounds like a problem lies with the teaching method, rather than with the Japanese language itself.
Also, for me, it is unthinkable for someone to propose changing the core of Polish language, just to make it easier for kids to learn English. That sounds simply like a cultural conquest of a country - we're now shaping your schools to make it easier to learn _our_ language.
What next? Introducing Latin alphabet? After all, it will be confusing with all the different Kana, so why not replace them with Romaji altogether?
And grammar is also completely different, so why not change the Japanese grammar to fit the English better as well?
And at the end of the road? Hey, let's just make English the official language, since it's the _Lingua Franca_ of the modern day anyway, so it's more convenient to just use _one_ language, right?
あ゙ [ʕa] - used in onomatopoeia
か゚ [ŋa] - used for dialectal speech, especially Tokyo dialect
ラ゚ [la] - used to distinguish /l/ from /r/ in lyrics to Latin hymns, attested in a book written over 100 years ago
ウ゚ [m̩] - replaced with ン
Dakuten あ doesn’t have a unique IPA sound, nor could it ever have one. The diacritic sound is constrictive on the vowels. It can be any sound you want it to be. It just needs to be guttural or deep. The pitch or how you produce the sound is up to interpretation
る゛and this? I saw it in a chapter of one piece, When he shouts "I have my crew!"
Ive only ever seen あ/ま/い etc. With the rakuten online, and i also got the impression it was like a moan, but i had also learned the dakuten basically changes a kana's sound from unvoiced to voiced (for example, the s from さ is just breathing, while the z from ざ is the same mouth movement but where you use your vocal chords) so i kind of applied that logic to the unusual ones. In a way, it still makes sense in my mind
What is a Rakuten
@@salmonking1118probably a typo
I wish that the kana ヰ/ゐ and ヱ/ゑ would be comeback :)) I mean instead of spelling it as “i,e” we can change it into “wi,we” sound again, it look less confuse than うぃ、うぇ. :)) I’m not a Japanese learner, is also not a hard-study person so I can’t write all of my opinion by my limited English knowledge. So I hope you could understand my comment
They cannot comeback as something else because it would be confusing. They have been pronounced as i and e for hundreds of years. Feature bloating might be fun in imagination but is not for the real world
I've searched quite a bit last week and could not find the explanation, thanks a lot for the video!
Glad I could help man :)
Very cool to see you again!
I hope you continue to take it forward, I already shared with my 日本語クラス
Ayy thanks man, definitely
*日本語クラ゚ス
Fascinating. Glad deep dives like this exist to sate curiosity, these sorts of questions pop up all the time but are brushed past for the sake of learning the language itself but they are interesting artifacts that enrich understanding, I think.
i do think the kana with dakuten is actually pretty commonly used enough for you to actually see and benefit from learning what i said, though others are just for curiousity lol
4:36 some people pronunce the regular がぎぐげご these way.
I noticed that in a lot of Japanese songs!
Currently making a video about strange and unusual Kana, and this series has been super helpful. I will definitely shout you out when they video drops~
glad to be of help! there is more to what i have covered definitely, although i do intend to finish this series sometime... with the last part
@@XiaosChannel just released the video, thanks again for the help. Shouted you out
Thank you, very interesting video about such an obscure topic for non-native speakers!
glad to help :)
I've discovered these video presentations some time ago, and, given i'm studying Japanese with a hint of East Asian linguistic atm, i find them just fascinating! the muddy sound of the now unused diacritic kanas really remind me of something akin to an accent, and even the Korean hangeul pronounciation. Because in Korean there are for example the sounds " K " (though can be interchanged with "G"), " Kh " (where the "h" is at the tail of the expiration) and " K' " (kind of a brief version of "K"). When the teacher demonstrated by pronounciating during the seminar, it sounded same-ish because the difference is that subtle. Which, again, i can easily parallel with あ and あ" in your video. 👀✨
Yeah i think it is just very hard for untrained ears, but luckily you usually don't need to be able to tell to be fluent at a language because there's much more cues than that
the way of teaching korean is kinda esoteric, if u just go by phonological physical measurements of frequencies and anatomical examination, the truth behind their sounds or better said their 3 series of sounds is easy and way different from how they describe it:
- the normal series: b g d j/dz (voiced)
- the aspirated series: p'h k'h t'h ch/ts'h
- the so called "tense" series (those written etc.): p k t (unvoiced but not aspirated, i.e. like in italian/spanish/mexican/japanese/... english before e.g. spin vs pin)
with TWO underlying laws of the language:
1) korean is a type of "tonal" or pitch language (similar to japanese, but unlike chinese), with VOILESS sound syllables having a HIGHER pitch than voiced ones (i.e. the normal series causes a drop in pitch)
2) WORD BEGINNINGS are uniquely marked by being asphirated (which means automatically, also voiceless), as seeing in being pronounced "s'harang.he" as the initial S gets asphirated, and in the case of the normal series fire is pronounces like grass, both as "p'hul", with the difference that is said in a high pitch while in a lower pitch
Nice video. It looks like ラ゚リ゚ル゚レ゚ロ゚ have been used in the past in the way you suggest, by Japanese linguists, although blogs that point that out don't cite many sources. Seems like they have potential for interesting creative writing. リ゚ apparently also has very niche usage in transcribing the Tarama language/dialect.
thanks for the comment! i think one real source would suffice for me. the only thing i'm surprised was japanese has wide use of trills but these aren't use for that purpose
Great video! I will definitely be sharing this with my friends.
aww thanks!
Really fascinating. Thank you! Looking forward to future lessons.
thanks! it's so nice to see so many people actually liked it. before i posted on reddit this video got like 70 views for the first week. something must be wrong with youtube's recommendation system. next video will probably be out some time in September.
キング・クリムゾン --> キク゚・クリムゾン
Thanks for the lesson!
(Wait a second, I recognize that magazine cover...)
XD
Makes me wonder if in 100 years they will have also gotten rid of more, if not all, existing diacritics on current kana, just lumping together different sounds under the same kana and reading them the same way. You would think it would make no sense to do that, so they'd never do it, but in the same way they already got rid of other kana that had a purpose, like ゐ, 𛄟, ゑ, and more.
I think it may depend on how fast the Japanese language evolves.
@@XiaosChannel or, rather, devolves.
@@SentientAnomaly languages don't devolve
Thanks for the insight!
thank you! Subscribed~
glad i made something sub-worthy :)
There's a pachinko parlor in Japan called BIGディッル゚. How is it pronounced?
big dill
big dillu
so dakuten A and etc is creaky voice…? Japanese has creaky distinction?!
not really. this is more of a way to use kana to express variations in sound itself like onomatopoeia, not to distinguish them for different meanings
Cool video 😄🙂💪
ま と 「”」できない〜
Great video! I cannot figure out how to type these in windows IME though :(
i made another video just for that 👉👉👉
I will like to use wi and we
Hi! I wanted to ask if リ゜ャ lya リ゜ュ lyu リ゜ェ lye リ゜ョ lyo are used for taking the jlpt.
Nothing in this series will be in JLPT, in case the title wasn't clear enough lol
Is the next video going to be "hentaigana" like kana with strange forms, or capital H Hentaigana? Considering where a lot of the strange forms in this video end up appearing, seems it could go either way.
lol
Where are the part 1 and 2 videos at? all i see is part 0, the part 3 videos, and this one
I probably replied to you on reddit but just in case there's people like you on RUclips, here's the playlist for the entire series: ruclips.net/video/AnevfcyHZSc/видео.html
So the handakuten for those kana can be used for Chinese names, with the ng ending?
no, they are not used in regular speech or writings, sadly, and it's not really "ng" but a "gn" sound like gnocci, which mandarin does not have
@@XiaosChannel That’s sad, I really wish the phonetics and pronunciation of Japanese and Mandarin/Cantonese had more similarities, as nearly all of Japan’s culture was inspired and shed light from China’s immigrants/ambassadors. Let alone its entire writing system.
@@apotheosis1660 I'm happy it sounds nothing like it because Japanese is one of the very few languages sounds like pure music to my ears. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for Chinese. Quite the opposite, really...
@@XiaosChannellike the ny/ ñ sound in the Italian pronunciation?
@@person8546 that would be correct! well no sounds are 100% alike but i think it's close enough
吁
the R with ° sign is pronounced L
That is not differenciated in Japanaese. In fact it's the R (as in "real") part they can't pronunce so everything is L
@@XiaosChannel Japanese R is in between R and L. For an L sound linguists sometimes add the ° sign, but it's very rare. I don't think there's an English R sound (as in "real") in Japanese, I think it doesn't exist (maybe you could add ̏ to R but I don't think people will know what this is)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakuten_and_handakuten#Phonetic_shifts
あ゛ぁ゛
a
This is very interesting, could you please explain more about using ク゚ etc. in teaching?
What lead me here was seeing this in a dictionary:
【手探り】てさぐり
テサ↓ク゚リ [2]
Why is グ not used instead? The hiragana has a regular ぐ
It's only used when talking about that particular phenomenon and for average people they might do it without knowing and they don't use it
Rﾟ