I’ve had a set of the USA originals in my garage but haven’t got around to installing them on my 93 Harley Heritage. It is noisy and it has a set of Jim’s HydroSolids in it also.
My 103 had a good tick when I bought it, I changed to Amsoil and it went away, I was surprised. (It had H-D Dino in it when I bought it). My Evo however, oil had little to no affect so I installed rocker lockers and it quieted it down significantly, It prompted me to buy rocker lockers for the Twinkie, but I haven’t installed them yet since it’s still quiet.
Great info. I also use Amsoil and don't have any noticeable ticks in my rockers. You could also install drag pipes. They may not eliminate the tick but you won't hear it any more.
I've owned my first harley for about a week and I'm a new rider and have been searching to see if this ticking was normal thanks for video man! The clip helped verify it as well thank you!
I've done rocker-lockers on several of my twin cam bikes to varying degrees of effectiveness. While the 'tick' is clearly reduced in most application I've done, it is seldom completely eliminated but, it is definitely much better than without. I have actually also had success with experimenting with oils and oil flow, basically landed on two additional solution that almost completely eliminate the valve train noises when coupled with rocker-lockers upgrade - I always install the Axtell's Oil By-pass upgrade which doubles oil flow resulting in significant improved oil pressure and volume to the top of the heads In addition, I've landed on using Harley's SAE 60 non-synthetic oil. It's a special order but, it's now the only oil I have used for nearly a decade now.
Yes, when I first bought my Harley way back in 2001 I thought that Harleys just made that clickity clackitiy noise. Everyone said the same thing. Then at about 500 miles when the rings seated I changed out the oil to castrol syntec 20W50 car oil. I cranked up the bike and low and behold no upper engine noise. Could not hear a thing but smooth operation. Ran good multi-viscosity car oil ever since without a problem. Took it to the dealer one time and they even complimented on the sound of the engine and how smooth it sounded. They asked me how and I said "ancient Chinese secret". LOL! Multi-viscosity is the way to go for engines because it provides good thin oil lubrication on cold engines and you have practically instant oil pressure as thin oils pump way better than thick oils. If you like to run motorcycle oil AMSOIL, or extended performance Mobil.
This is a great video with much needed info. I am a new rider, bought a 95 Sportster XLH 883 and soon became worried about the tick. It got louder and louder after taking a leisurely ride. I changed the engine and primary oil using Mobil1 synthetic 20w50 thinking that would help... it did not. Then I learned from the previous owner he always used conventional oil... so, now I'm draining the syn and trying the conventional (Castrol Go 4T 20W50). I really hope this works, for some the ticking may be music to their ears (and I understand that) but it takes away from the joy and peace of mind running down the road for me. If this doesn't work, I guess I will invest in that Rocker Locker... thanks so much for making this video!!!
Yes i installed them on my bike. took about 3 hours taking my time and letting the lifters bleed down before adjusting the push rods. Im happy with the results even 3 years later.
Thanks Gix,I know this video was made two years ago but this was a major help in 2023 with my 03 Heritage Softail Classic flstci top end knock,it may have been there for awhile and I haven’t heard it due to loud Screamin Eagle II’s pipes or having heavy metal playing on pandora,I’m gonna try Amsoil in her and see what it does,thanks for all your videos brother🤘🏻🤘🏻
Had rocker lockers installed on my '91 XLH 883 Deluxe and I must say that ticks are gone. I may subjectively feel that the bike is running better, but most probably because my HD garage also changed all gaskets from bottom to top. Thanks for your videos anyway and always sharing good advice and experience.
Thank you for all of the great information! I just purchased an 02 Ultra Classic with 39k on it. I purchased it because you gave me the confidence and the information I needed to make an informed decision. Thank you very much!!! Duckman
I tried synthetic oils in several different motorcycles I've owed over the years, and everyone of them made more noise with synthetic (Amzoil was the worse) than running conventional oil. I'm currently using Spectro conventional Heavy Duty oil and works great.
When I purchased my 2013 FLHTK new I thought it ran and rode horribly. Fast forward with the proper engine mods for my style of riding, Ohlins suspension front/rear and it's now the best motorcycle I've ever owned. Love it now but hated that it cost $5,000 to get it where it should have been from day one.
Over the years I just quit letting it get to me. Tried the oil change up thing but then I felt line ke I became more critical of ticks. I just enjoy the ride.
I swapped the stock cams for Wood's TW6-H .590's. In my 88tc. I'm kicking myself for not adding rocker lockers when I had the valves done. But Amsoil definitely quieted things down. It also runs 25°-30° cooler now.
Great video! Zippers has PDF on how to check the tolerances in the rockers loose or worn tolerances can make the ticks worse. Rocker Lockers help tighten up the tolerance and certain oils can definitely help. I found that increased oil pressure in my Twin Cam, semi adjustable push rods adjusted correctly with the Woods Offset Rocker Box eliminated all my top end noise.
I own a 2020 FXST with the 107 M8. Bought it new and the engine was, to me, WAY to noisy mechanically. Went through the first oil change with HD Syn 3 20W50 oil as recommended. WAY to much noise for me. Sounded to me like piston slap. The next change I went to Mobil 1, 20W50 full synthetic oil. The improvement was unbelievable. The engine is now mechanically as quiet as any motorcycle I have ever owned. Won't use anything else.
I rode Japanese bikes for 30 years. A lot of them were air/oil cooled bikes like GSX-R’s and FJ’s and XS. I love air-cooled bikes they feel alive. I don’t find Harley Davidson’s to be excessively noisy, they make about as much noise as any air-cooled motor does. Remember the old air-cooled 911’s and Beetles they made a boat load of noise too. Most of it is normal and if it’s not normal well, everyone is an expert and they’ll be sure to let you know.
I installed RLers on my ‘05 Dyna LowRider while I was changing the cam chest. I had noticed a tick/tick sound coming from the top end, but assumed it was usual valve train noise. The air cooled mills are noisy engines, this to be expected since there’s no water jackets and looser tolerances. While I had the top end off, I installed the RLers. When everything was buttoned up, the top end was much quieter. In short, RLers did work as promised and at $25, it was a bargain!
Trying out different oil definitely helped my ticking noise, but from what I've read on the internet the rocker lockers are really beneficial when the rocker shaft groove is excessively worn down.
A little known fact is the regular Dino oil from Harley is the best for quieting down the engine. It is specifically made (not by HD) for air cooled engines that see a lot of heat. Do not add any additives, there is already a unique additive package in the oil as specified by HD. It is only for the engine on your bike, so it is not compromised in anyway to be used for everything in general. Change oil every 5000 miles even for synthetics. Synthetic oil is still subjected to the combustion contaminates as Dino oil. Next best option is Diesel engine oil.
I have installed several sets of rocker lockers & they work ! However if you have to remove the rocker arms be prepared for a hassle they are a pain to remove & you will probably have to buy another set to reinstall !
yup . Just removed valve cover. Then pulled rocker bolts . One at a time. Cylinder on base circle so no pressure on springs. Put sleeves in one at a time. And pressed them in with rockers still on head one bolt at a time. Then backed off all bolts and retorqued. Same gaskets and breather filter. Replace valve cover gasket and adjust pushrods. No more tick. In fact i can hear my fuel pump at idle.
The vibration of the engines on most Harleys including mine is enough to loosen certain bolts over time. For me it's the ones that fasten the split tanks on the top by the neck. Had to put extra washers and spacers in there to stop the tanks from vibrating too much but now even with loctite they eventually come loose. Never ending.
I have used RL's on three twin cams with no complaints. I run the Wood TW-6H cam in several bike and discovered the steep ramps cause the rocker arms to slide on the shaft when unloading. This results in the rocker arm hitting the support plate - making the ticking sound. HD is quite generous with the end play clearance., from about .005 to .020+ (just guessing, the shop manual is in the garage). I've used rocker arm shims for a shovelhead to reduce the end play to .010 or slightly less. This along with RL's has made the ticking tolerable . Measure the rocker arm end play with the valve fully open and under max side load. Place the shim on the non-load end of the rocker arm. I use .010 shims and so far no problems - 65K on the clock.
Wood cams make power but like you mentioned the ramp angle are steep. Lol they can and usually do make the valve train noisy, which is to be expected and about the only complaint I've ever got about them.
Do you have a sample of the noise before you shimmed the rockers? I’m running Woods 999-6A and the motor is very noisy. It supposedly has rocker lockers installed when the work was done.
@@Dixifrog I don't have noise samples, sorry. This fix I found on an HD forum I believe. The reason I believe it works is the manual calls for a 0.003 - 0.013 end clearance when new, and then goes on to say replace parts when its 0.025. That's a big gap. The TC push rods are angled slightly and push the rocker to one side or the other when opening the valve, thus end gap should be measured with the valve open - the side with gap is the non-load side of the rocker. Typically, I've found the gaps 0.015 or more, so I just add a 0.010 shovelhead shim on the non-load side to reduce the gap. Sometime the rocker support is a little tweeked when not torqued down and you need to fight it a bit to get the shim in. Once reinstalled and tightened down the end play should be rechecked. Atleast now I can hear the Reinhart's, and blame any ticking on the valves closing. Overall the job is not too hard, just a little time consuming - with taking measurements and readjusting the pushrods. Good luck.
2004 SEEG @85k km, had a lifter failure, replaced the 4 OEM’s with S&S units and installed the rocker lockers. Very silent top-end now, most engine noise now originates from lower down the engine. Excellent product @ good price.
I have the kit need to install it, while you have the rocker covers off and installing the lockers, should Iswap the stock rockers with roller rockers I have a 2006 Springer Twin Cam 88 unless it has rollers from the factory?
I'm running rocker lockers on my 91 Evo they took out a lot of the noise but not all of it, being a mechanic, I followed the recommended procedures, then on the rear cylinder I seen how I could speed up the process, I could see where the rocker arms were contacting the bolts as there were wear marks, in a nutshell I would recommend the lockers, they definitely made a difference
I just put the RL's on my twin cam. I pressed them in with a mandrel made on a lathe. Since the rocker box is a cast part the bolt bore is tapered from two directions and has casting flash in there. This flash collapsed the RL's. If you install as per instructions with the bolts and backing nut this will probably be avoided to a degree. I suspect that the bolt will be a PITA to remove if the casting flash collapses the RL. Also make sure that the RL's are about .06" below flush to accommodate the fillet between the shank and head of the bolt. It seems quieter now but i's hard to tell. Like you said these engines make noise everywhere. Mine had a wicked whine which was masking a lot of the tick. Incidentally the whine was from the worn out cam chain tensioners. I replaced those and now I can hear the valvetrain but it's nothing that alarming. I use the 20-50 SYN3 oil. I'm going to try the Amsoil next.
I have to agree with the Amsoil statement.. For myself in northern cali. 100 degree days go for months. I currently run 60w. amsoil.. even in cooler weather,,, I have no complaints
My 2000 FLSTC had 50k on it (yeah a ticking time bomb), so when I did the teardown to put in hydraulic cam chain tensioners, and some other goodies in the old ride It wasn't a big deal to also change the breather assembly elements and put in a set of RL. They were a big improvement.
i put those lockers in my 98 fatboy 80 evo and they were easy to install and work great but they to do wear out and the motor will start to tick again but those rockers pop right out specially if u keep the alingment tool Dk customs send with the locker kit.. I WILL PUT THEM IN EVERY HARLEY I WILL EVER OR WORK ON.. GREAT PRODUCT...
Definitely will do the next time the tops are off, but my odd experience was when I tried Amsoil and Mobile1 on my TC88, the valve train got WORSE. Went back to Valvoline conventional and she's a good bit quieter. I don't mind Dino blood because a) she was designed to run it and b) my motors NEVER see dirty oil. When it's caramel, it comes out, usually by 3k or earlier.
Using the best oil and making sure it's clean will go a long way my bike has 250 thousand miles on it and I've never had to do a motor job on it she still run,s great
Pushrod engines are noisy regardless but I'd think about installing them if I had the engine apart. The truth is while I love my Harley their tolerances are probably more than twice what they should. Have you ever heard a twin-cam engine that was built with proper specs? I have and it makes a huge difference.
New to the channel, so far these videos are great. That being said I have had a Honda Shadow that I fully restored and customized myself. A friend of mine can no longer ride due to cancer (that bastard!) but he sold me his HD. A ‘99 Ultra Classic. You are more right than you realize about all the ticks and what not. I first got it and drove it home and I thought I was in for a bit of work ahead of me. This is my first HD ticks and knocks galore! I took it to a HD shop and the tech took it out for a ride and came back and reassured me this is one heck of a good bike. Runs and sounds perfect for a HD. And it has over 80K on it. It just took me a bit to get accustomed to the new noises. But now the Shadow is in the corner all sad because it never gets looked at let alone ridden. 😁
That's not a tick... that music to my ears. I love that Harley music. It let's me know things are alive and working to haul my butt around. It's the sound or freedom, a sound of a Era that snowflakes are trying to take from us... Long live that Harley music!!
Yea know rite but I’ve wondered about the lockers but if they design it to be loose so it could have room to expand I’ve wondered wouldn’t that be to tight yea it’s just the boxes but that was always my concern it would be to tight we spend time on trying to loosening up primary chains and try to tighten up parts of the motor but yea some r pretty loud of tick
Been under a rock, when showed oil lines coming from tank..I was like huh..no hoses..guess all know what I ride..old shovel and newer evo.. wonder if have for the shovel..but don't think I would hear the change anyway..ie shovel is 108 with 2 inch straight drags..and half deaf.
Toward the end, you highlighted that for only $25, you can take that noisy tick out of the top end. You said that's a great benefit, and it is. However, I would have also highlighted the fact that it relines everything inside a lot better than Factory and eliminates the uneven wear of the pushrods and roller assemblies and such. Otherwise, once again, you put out another awesome video with very helpful information. Thank you.
I became aware of this annoying ticking on the top end of my 05 Night Train, so when I built my 95" on my custom, I installed the Rocker Lockers from the onset...man, what a difference! It sounds like a sewing machine!!!
Go to an inline four for that annoying tick . As for Harley's I hear that mechanical noise . I don't treat my Harley's like crap . I do like AMS oil in my R1 . That's another bike I take care of but when it comes to putting that performance to the test that ams oil does it . Still smooth when changing the oil
Just bought the parts to change the tensioner shoes etc on my twin cam. Thinking of changing the cams too, but have the rocker locks ready to go. Also oil try Royal Purple Synthetic 20/50. Good quality oil which is expensive but great. Another good video and I will come back to you later.
If you're gonna have the cam chest open it makes sense to get some cams in there. Expensive up front doing it all at once but it's already tore down and you're right there. Expensive oil is cheap insurance in my book!
@@GixxerFoo There are good oils and then there are expensive oils that more than double the price but don’t give you any better protection. There are plenty of comparisons of the extremely expensive oils to the lesser expensive ones that prove it. If I was going to pay $12 to $15 a quart I’d just go with Amsoil.
Hey guys thanks for the replies. For sure I am looking at cams but would appreciate a recommendation. Not looking for major league complicated; but got Mikuni HSR45 already so just want the engine to breath better and pull harder without any other work. Recommendations appreciated. Oil wise in the U.K. is Royal Purple full stop. Very few American oils available that are specialty. Peace bros, stay free. It’s getting harder.
ever heard of ROCK OIL? Its from the UK. Expensive but its worth it. I use it in my Honda CB750 FOUR SOHC. Its air cooled and runs just fine in the phx Heat. Havent tried it any of my HDs but I know it will work. Sold in pints of course since it from jolly ol england!
@@chopperchopster Rock Oil is great stuff, my friend wouldn’t use anything else in his race Yamaha,s. Royal Purple is expensive especially over in the U.K. But they reckon it can reduce cylinder head temps by up to 20 degrees on evo and twin cams. I’ve already got the oil so might as well give it a try. Ride free bro.
@@GixxerFoo its a 96ci. Im still doin research, but leanin towards a 116ci stroke n poke and carb conversion. Got a feelin its either got a cam in it or an efi problem, but it idles like a carbed bike now.
Good timing I just changed my oil, since it’s been very hot I put 2 quarts 25w60 spectro conventional & 1.5 qts S&S 20w50 full synthetic that I always run. Motor is quieter than new. I already have rocker lockers but you could still hear it but not as bad. Now very quiet 🤫 Forgot it’s a 2015 103 HO
I have a 2000 FLSTC that I bought with 11k miles on it. It had a little tick on the front cylinder. I wanted to replace the cam chain tensioners, regardless of wear, because 23 year old plastic. Since I was going to have it apart anyway, I checked the rocker shafts and they were not loose and showed no signs of being the culprit. IE they weren't loose, the bolts showed no witness marks from the shafts tapping them and the cutouts were not up against the bolts. I installed the rocker lockers anyway, just in case I missed something, and put the engine back together. I filled it with Amsoil. (I assume it had whatever the dealer uses in it, as it had just had a documented 3 hole change before I bought it.) The tick is now worse! I guess I will try a different brand of oil and see if that makes a difference, but I think I see lifters and adjustable pushrods in the near future. If I could afford it, I would put a gear drive cam kit in it,(pinion shaft is .002) along with the lifter kit and be done with the engineering shortcomings of my year twin cam (at least until the compensator needs replaced) but I'm an old guy on fixed income so all that will have to wait until I go back to work to stack up a little money next winter. Right now, summer is here and the road calls.
Honestly a little ticking in top is pretty normal on these bikes, I am surprised Amsoil didn't quiet it down a little. I did have a Vrod that ticked a little bit on Amsoil, but that was improved from the Screamin Eagle oil in it.
EVO forever. My 883 EVO is pretty darn smooth. No ticks or knocks. You do hear a bit of valve noise on the high RPM, but it doesn't bother me much because the motor exhaust is so loud and sweet.
I just ordered a set of Rocker Lockers. Since I'm finishing the install of an S&S Big Bore kit, I might as well fix the tick before I close up the top end.
Thanks for your vids! The rocker lockers by themselves, did not cure the tick. In addition to the rotational slop on the rocker shaft, I also noticed a fair amount of lateral play. I'm wondering how much lateral play is acceptable on the rockers.
no noise from a Harley eng. you have a problem. there all noisy. what makes em quiet is correct. assembly. start at the flywheels, and work your way up. in my twin cams, I changed the chain drive cams to gears, a fueling kit 525 cam, with oil pump, lifters, pushrods, gaskets, and roller rockers, what a difference, expensive but worth it. as for my shovel truit & osborn flywheels and a complete rebuild..in any case, I 100% agree with you, oil, it's the eng's blood. I had an oil company silogram, Manny the owner blended me motorcycle oil 20-60wt, semi-syn, monster truck grave digger used their oil, Dyna race, Manny called their MC oil Dyna cycle, great oil. they Mfg. heavy lubes for the industry. ships, city buses, trucks, heavy equipment, all machinery. never used a better oil. you can also use STP in whatever oil you use, it's full of zink and moly. big difference, change the oil at 3-4000 mils, and your good to go. you do a great review and subject matter, keep 'em coming. TKS
That's what we used to do back in the day on shovelheads. There was a guy in California who made nice shims you could buy mail-order and I put a lot of them in over the years working on shovels. Harley-Davidson allowed .004 to .020 end play. That's a lot of slop if you ask me.
I have a 1967 XLH Sportster in old days I would ride it and it would make a lot of Lifter noise. I would stop at the bar for a beer and on the way home it would run very well. I called it a 6 pack Tune up
I have an 04 Ultra, I have adjusted the valves a dozen times in the 70K or so on the motor. Inspected rockers, lifters, changed pushrods, and can't make it go away. Why did Suzuki quit making the Cavalcade, or Yamaha quit making the Venture? I could be riding a nice 80something water cooled V-4 with gobs of torque without cooking my package in traffic, while listening to valves tick. My poor decisions never cease to amaze me.
Thanks great video!! But I have roller rockers!! 86 FXSTC Nothing really left on original Harley motor built 3 times just balanced crankcase wheels & piston connecting rods!! Redshift hand ground cam too many things to list, but what a screaming banshee of a motor!! Last build fall of 21, that's it last me till I'm gone!!!😊 9:26
I have a 12 streetglide and it sounds like there’s a playing card in you’re rims like you did when your a kid, just can’t tell if it’s coming from the exhaust or if it’s on the top right side of the engine
You might try the old stethoscope method with an ear on a screw drive on top of that motor. That will tell you real quick if that noise is in your top end or not.
I put my rocker lockers in around 80k. It was a fairly easy process. At 125k now, no issues. Less noise! But, it is a Harley. Noise is part of the deal!!
All of the pushrod bottom end cam engine issues have been fixed for good. The new revolution max engine has changed the way forward for Harley Davidson.
The Revolution Max is going to push Harley into new market segments and I'm excited for it. I'll always keep my air cooled 45 but I am waiting for more of these new liquid cooled models to come out to see if there's anything I can't live without.
Foo, are S&S roller rockers worth the money for a bolt in cam? I know their value in built car engines due to less push-pull on the valve stem resulting in less valve guide wear. The higher the lift the greater the benefit but at $600 plus they’re a bit spendy. Do you know what effect they would have on the Harley tick? Thanks for educating this Harley novice and my wallet thanks you for suggesting a Harley mod that doesn’t leave it exsanguinated at only $25.
I would say the rollers are not necessary with the bolt in cam. You really don't develop a need for those unless your putting in something like a 600 plus lift cam that barely let's the bike idle and you're going from zero wfo and off.
Hey Brother whats your thoughts on running Synthetic oil in a 88 Evo? I used to without any problems like leaking past gaskets or other seepage problem. I was running Mobil1 V-Twin oil with 1/2 to 2/3 quart Lucas oil Stabilizer. Also put 8oz. of Motorkote in crankcase. I switched private mechanics and he recommended to me that I should be running regular mineral oil in an Evo motor. Because thats what they were designed to be lubed on. It made sense so I changed over to HD reg. Oil along with the Lucas and Motorkote added as before. Motor is a little louder butseems to be fine. I was just wondering what your thoughts were on the subject. Since we both know the Synthetic oil flows and lubes better than conventional oil. THANK YOU: C LOOD
I had ticking from the heads on my carbureted 02 heritage Springer and determined that it was leaning out with the throttle cracked at cruising speed. After putting a sportster needle and a couple of washers under the needle it quietened it down and ran cooler.
I don’t know if I waited too long or what but I installed rocker lockers on my sporty and they just fell down the bolt and into the motor because the holes were worn
Yeah, I tried them. I have the woods TW-9-6 I sent my heads out to branch and O’Keefe. They did a really great job won’t fit a stock. They recommended those and I really good for one 110 , what is 10 to one compression I didn’t wanna go crazy with the compression it’s 120 foot pounds and the same torque. I put those rocker lockers in there didn’t help, but that is one noise engine really runs good. I have a big radio in my bike. but as you know, if you try to make too much power out of these, it takes dependability away. And I put a lot of miles on the highway 2 up and heavy it goes. They said it’s the overlap on the exhaust and intake. I don’t know damn good cams if you don’t mind the noise. The rocker lockers did not help this. I think the normal stuff. so any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I know you’re a big wood guy. I didn’t put roller rocker arms so it’s not hitting the rocker cover. But it’s just a front cylinder isn’t hurting anything. I don’t think it just pretty noisy, but it’s a twin cam.
I just did the cheap old trick. I use Marvel Mystery Oil and the ticks are about 75% gone. Lubes and cleans the top end better than Seafoam from my experience. Seafoam works better for compression.
Marvel is one hell of a product, I been using that stuff forever myself too. Lol I was using the old metal cans of it my dad still had when I was a kid in my dirt bikes.
my bike is a O5, just had the motor rebuilt to a 103. harley first said oil changes every 5,000. they have since up dated the t.c's to every 2,500 mile oil changes. I used synthetic since I bought my bike new. after my motor rebuild I now use bel-ray mineral oil.
I'm not a question for you I've got a noise only while slowing down on my 2016 Street glide it goes away when I pull the clutch while still in motion slowing down I would appreciate any feedback thanks
I have a 96 Fatboy with less than 30000 miles I change the oil to Royal Purple and ever since I've done it it's rattle to beat the band what do you think about me changing it back to a straight 50 Dino?
Some motors are just weird like that, you might try going back with some good old conventional oil in that Evo. Even my dads Vrod starting making some rattles with Amsoil, we went back to Screamin Eagle on it.
My TC 96” had a tick. Bugged me. Eventually figured it was normal. Was time for an oil change and accidentally left with an M8 Softail. New bike too quiet.
I recently installed a similar product called “Rock Out”. Same idea. Uses the brass shims like Rocker Locker. It took at least 1/2 of the top end “tick” out. I also switched to Amsoil, hoping that it would eliminate a bit more of the noise. So, bottom line, I still have some of the annoying tick, but now only in the 2,000-2,300 RPM range. So, still annoying, but MUCH better. I might investigate another brand of oil, but I do like the Amsoil product.
You can take care of the noise by shimming the rocker arms end play. I think the spec is .003 to .013" or so... If they have .010-.015 end play they will click. You can verify this with the rocker cover removed and push pull on the rockers in valve closed position. You will hear it click.
@@MegaCusco Yes. After shimming the bolts I noticed there was still some end-play, but only on one rocker arm. I could still hear it click. So, I’m pretty sure you are right about the remaining noise. I’m not sure how to safely shim that end-play out. I don’t want to put something in there that will end up contaminating the whole engine. Have you done it before? I have even considered just buying a new rocker arm but might end up with more noise again and just end up chasing another problem.
No. I have never used the same oil for all three holes. I have used Amsoil primarily. But, now I have BelRay in the trans and Spectro 25-60 (Dino) in the engine. The Spectro seems to quiet it down a bit, but still annoying.
Rocker lockers worked for me. Destroyed a few in the process of installing them. What also works is drilling and tapping, then installing a set screw to lock the rod.
That's a really good idea, I've seen that done a time or two. Rocker Lockers can be a real pain to get straight when you press them in, I've had to use a couple myself in the past.
I'm just wondering, how long rocker lockers will last? I've heard in some engines, that the rocker lockers came apart after a while. (Back in the old days, we would get rid of ticks, by burning their but with a cigarette!!..lol..!!) Back to the real problem; I ordered some rocker shafts from S&S, a couple of years ago, but haven't installed them yet due to my Sportster is my only ride! I'm 64yo and don't have a garage or time lately to tear down my ride. But I've been wanting to install the S&S rocker shafts, and also get some S&S lifters, to see if they would quiet that tick down once and for all! You always post great videos! Thank you!
They do help but at the same time I swapped my rocker plates out for some cnc billet pieces.. bout 250-300 bucks but a huge difference (replaced rocker plates because I broke one coming home from work)
Good breakdown, Gixxer! Also, let’s not forget that Harley also did away with the bronze bushings in 2011 not only on the cam plate but also on the con rods, right? I do not have a PhD in business, but I cannot imagine for even a minute that the reputational damage that all these “cost savings” have done to the company in no way makes up for the pennies or few dollars per unit “saved” when bean counters overrule engineering. In either case, it’s nothing short of a disgrace that they did it, and now continue to do it (M8). Then, they actually Beta Test the product ...in the marketplace, utilizing not their R&D money, but our money.
I don't recall the bronze bushings going away but it wouldn't surprise me at all, I'll ask around about that though. When they started cutting that's really hurt the quality, sure they crank out motors and save money but it's not good for business.
@@GixxerFoo I've read several Forum posts to that effect , where guys were scratching their heads wondering where the bushings were. It supposedly happened with the 2011's and on (Twin Cam).
Cannot comment on the newer engines, but I can attest to the earlier engines had cold rolled steel, bronze coated, rocket arm bushings. Replaced with solid bronze bushings and never heard the tics again.
Good morning 🌅,GixxerFoo, I think I have this issue too, though I not sure, I have been for ride today about 70 miles, the temperature was up in the 30s today, after I had done around 30 to 40 miles I started to hear a noise, So I pulled over could not really hear anything, but when I rev the engine a couple of times, I then started to hear a noise noise again, by the time I got back the oil temperature was around 110 on my dip , don’t know how accurate it is, Definitely got a noise I did think at one point it might be the compensator, can’t quite tell where the noises coming from, obviously riding the bike, Deuce dude France. Look forward to tomorrow night catch up with you then.,
They all make the tick, supposed to be normal. Mine do it sometimes and other times they don't. Today's video is going to be a little different, a lot of overwhelming comments about the goings on at Harley.
Awesome information bro I just bought my Harley this spring it only has 15k miles on it but it it's a 2002 dyna 88ci no ticking at idle but I notice some ticking when riding like when engine isn't laboring just cruzin speed like when I back off the rpms I've went with synthetic oil but maybe I need to go with amsol not sure maybe add some zink to oil what's ur thoughts man
I had rocker lockers installed on my 06 heritage while I hot a 95 bore, 18000 miles later I have a terrible knock in my front cylinder and thats burning hatley oil,,, last winter I put carquest 20 w 50 oil for the winter,, I didn't change it this summer because the noise went away after abt 800 miles,, ,,, can these rocker lockers come loose or what the heck,
Most all synthetic Vtwin motorcycle oils will work for the primary and transmission as well. I would say all but there might be some wild anomoly in synthetic motorcycle oils out there.
I've watched some of your other videos in the past, and respect your opinion. I've had my first harley for 3 years, it's an 06 street glide efi with a built big bore short stroke. I never rode it with the stock engine. My dad just bought an 05 electra glide classic with mild cams and true duals but carburated. The difference in vibration between his and mine is unbelievable... Mine barley has any, and his seems to quite a bit and it does it steadily up threw the RPM. Vibrating into the seat. It certainly doesn't SEEM like a motor mount is broken, i mean it seems good and tight... it almost seems like it's just the harmonics of the way its running?? Or am i missing somthing that could help dramatically? Is it the cams they chose maybe? I mean it's not so bad that it's un-rideable but it sure is annoying enough for me to notice.
I have same 05 EGC as your dad and after {GixxerFoo} shared drop in cams video I had a well-respected H D Indy shop add RED-Shift 511 cams, SE cam plate w/ hydraulic tensioners upgraded w/ oil pump adjustable push rods my 88" has same vibrations, had about 20k on it prior to changes about 23k+ on it now and vib's are still the same so I'm extremely happy with performance and would do that to any 88" again. I've had 4-88" v-twins the B model softails are smoothest at idle to roughly highway speeds of 70ish but vibs are very annoying at much higher speeds these A models touring to me are much smoother past 2800 rpm at all speeds. Just my thoughts. Thanks for sharing your experience as it helped me with mine. Ride on
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Have you tried the Rocker Lockers and got the tick out of the top end?
Rocker lockers paired with spectro 25w60 will silence the tick
Yep😀
Put them in my 87 electraglide , they work well , no more tick .
I’ve had a set of the USA originals in my garage but haven’t got around to installing them on my 93 Harley Heritage. It is noisy and it has a set of Jim’s HydroSolids in it also.
My 103 had a good tick when I bought it, I changed to Amsoil and it went away, I was surprised. (It had H-D Dino in it when I bought it). My Evo however, oil had little to no affect so I installed rocker lockers and it quieted it down significantly, It prompted me to buy rocker lockers for the Twinkie, but I haven’t installed them yet since it’s still quiet.
I’ve ridden Guzzi for over 30 years. I don’t even notice the tick on my HO 103 Road Glide Ultra. Perspective.
I totally understand what you mean on the Italian bikes, it really is all a matter of perspective.
Saves me the need for a stereo. The 'mechanical music' is part of why I love my Sporty.
Great info. I also use Amsoil and don't have any noticeable ticks in my rockers. You could also install drag pipes. They may not eliminate the tick but you won't hear it any more.
😄😄after a few weeks of riding with drag pipes you wouldn't have to worry about a lot of noises anymore.
Lol!!
Or conversation, cat purring, music...
@@GixxerFoo Especially a nagging ol' lady...
Drag pipes work for an annoying mate noises as well 🤣. What's that honey? You want what? (Revs higher and smiles wider) 😁
I've owned my first harley for about a week and I'm a new rider and have been searching to see if this ticking was normal thanks for video man! The clip helped verify it as well thank you!
I've done rocker-lockers on several of my twin cam bikes to varying degrees of effectiveness. While the 'tick' is clearly reduced in most application I've done, it is seldom completely eliminated but, it is definitely much better than without. I have actually also had success with experimenting with oils and oil flow, basically landed on two additional solution that almost completely eliminate the valve train noises when coupled with rocker-lockers upgrade - I always install the Axtell's Oil By-pass upgrade which doubles oil flow resulting in significant improved oil pressure and volume to the top of the heads In addition, I've landed on using Harley's SAE 60 non-synthetic oil. It's a special order but, it's now the only oil I have used for nearly a decade now.
Yes, when I first bought my Harley way back in 2001 I thought that Harleys just made that clickity clackitiy noise. Everyone said the same thing. Then at about 500 miles when the rings seated I changed out the oil to castrol syntec 20W50 car oil. I cranked up the bike and low and behold no upper engine noise. Could not hear a thing but smooth operation. Ran good multi-viscosity car oil ever since without a problem. Took it to the dealer one time and they even complimented on the sound of the engine and how smooth it sounded. They asked me how and I said "ancient Chinese secret". LOL! Multi-viscosity is the way to go for engines because it provides good thin oil lubrication on cold engines and you have practically instant oil pressure as thin oils pump way better than thick oils. If you like to run motorcycle oil AMSOIL, or extended performance Mobil.
This is a great video with much needed info. I am a new rider, bought a 95 Sportster XLH 883 and soon became worried about the tick. It got louder and louder after taking a leisurely ride. I changed the engine and primary oil using Mobil1 synthetic 20w50 thinking that would help... it did not. Then I learned from the previous owner he always used conventional oil... so, now I'm draining the syn and trying the conventional (Castrol Go 4T 20W50). I really hope this works, for some the ticking may be music to their ears (and I understand that) but it takes away from the joy and peace of mind running down the road for me.
If this doesn't work, I guess I will invest in that Rocker Locker... thanks so much for making this video!!!
Yes i installed them on my bike. took about 3 hours taking my time and letting the lifters bleed down before adjusting the push rods. Im happy with the results even 3 years later.
How do you let the lifters bleed? Do you know a video of where it shows it?
Installed rocker lockers on my 03 electraglide standard with 79,000 miles. Made a huge difference to the top end tic. Much quieter ride now
is this still holding up or did the tick return?
@@brianseddon4749 still holding up well with 85,000 on the clock now
Thanks Gix,I know this video was made two years ago but this was a major help in 2023 with my 03 Heritage Softail Classic flstci top end knock,it may have been there for awhile and I haven’t heard it due to loud Screamin Eagle II’s pipes or having heavy metal playing on pandora,I’m gonna try Amsoil in her and see what it does,thanks for all your videos brother🤘🏻🤘🏻
Had rocker lockers installed on my '91 XLH 883 Deluxe and I must say that ticks are gone. I may subjectively feel that the bike is running better, but most probably because my HD garage also changed all gaskets from bottom to top. Thanks for your videos anyway and always sharing good advice and experience.
Thank you for all of the great information! I just purchased an 02 Ultra Classic with 39k on it. I purchased it because you gave me the confidence and the information I needed to make an informed decision. Thank you very much!!!
Duckman
Great to hear and congratulations on the new bike! I really appreciate it, that's exactly why I do this!
I tried synthetic oils in several different motorcycles I've owed over the years, and everyone of them made more noise with synthetic (Amzoil was the worse) than running conventional oil. I'm currently using Spectro conventional Heavy Duty oil and works great.
I love and hate Harley. No other brand in the world can manage to occupy both place in a heart of a rider.😍😉
That's exactly how I feel about my Harleys too!
From 1966 till present and 6 Harley's later. Man! Spot on. Couldn't have said it better!
When I purchased my 2013 FLHTK new I thought it ran and rode horribly. Fast forward with the proper engine mods for my style of riding, Ohlins suspension front/rear and it's now the best motorcycle I've ever owned. Love it now but hated that it cost $5,000 to get it where it should have been from day one.
Over the years I just quit letting it get to me. Tried the oil change up thing but then I felt line ke I became more critical of ticks. I just enjoy the ride.
Lol it can make you paranoid if you let it get in your head, that's the number one question from new Harley owners is if that sound is normal.
@@GixxerFoo Hope they don't ask the dealer that. Everything is normal until it gets brought in on a flatbed. Then your wallet will have a tick.
You are spot on and brutally honest, that’s why I watch!!!
Thank you, I appreciate it! I love Harleys and ride them myself but I also want to put out there what's going on in these motors.
I swapped the stock cams for Wood's TW6-H .590's. In my 88tc. I'm kicking myself for not adding rocker lockers when I had the valves done. But Amsoil definitely quieted things down. It also runs 25°-30° cooler now.
Great video! Zippers has PDF on how to check the tolerances in the rockers loose or worn tolerances can make the ticks worse. Rocker Lockers help tighten up the tolerance and certain oils can definitely help. I found that increased oil pressure in my Twin Cam, semi adjustable push rods adjusted correctly with the Woods Offset Rocker Box eliminated all my top end noise.
I own a 2020 FXST with the 107 M8. Bought it new and the engine was, to me, WAY to noisy mechanically. Went through the first oil change with HD Syn 3 20W50 oil as recommended. WAY to much noise for me. Sounded to me like piston slap. The next change I went to Mobil 1, 20W50 full synthetic oil. The improvement was unbelievable. The engine is now mechanically as quiet as any motorcycle I have ever owned. Won't use anything else.
Are you able to use it in all compartments or just the engine??
@@Cherokee2005 The long haired guy on here says yes you can but uses gear oil in his tranny
This is a discussion we've been having here lately, I believe I'm going to put them on my bike this winter.
Thanks for the upload enjoy your channel
Thank you, I appreciate the support! They are worth it to quiet that motor down a bit, some bikes are worse than others with that tick.
I rode Japanese bikes for 30 years. A lot of them were air/oil cooled bikes like GSX-R’s and FJ’s and XS. I love air-cooled bikes they feel alive. I don’t find Harley Davidson’s to be excessively noisy, they make about as much noise as any air-cooled motor does. Remember the old air-cooled 911’s and Beetles they made a boat load of noise too. Most of it is normal and if it’s not normal well, everyone is an expert and they’ll be sure to let you know.
I installed RLers on my ‘05 Dyna LowRider while I was changing the cam chest. I had noticed a tick/tick sound coming from the top end, but assumed it was usual valve train noise. The air cooled mills are noisy engines, this to be expected since there’s no water jackets and looser tolerances. While I had the top end off, I installed the RLers. When everything was buttoned up, the top end was much quieter. In short, RLers did work as promised and at $25, it was a bargain!
Trying out different oil definitely helped my ticking noise, but from what I've read on the internet the rocker lockers are really beneficial when the rocker shaft groove is excessively worn down.
A little known fact is the regular Dino oil from Harley is the best for quieting down the engine. It is specifically made (not by HD) for air cooled engines that see a lot of heat. Do not add any additives, there is already a unique additive package in the oil as specified by HD. It is only for the engine on your bike, so it is not compromised in anyway to be used for everything in general. Change oil every 5000 miles even for synthetics. Synthetic oil is still subjected to the combustion contaminates as Dino oil. Next best option is Diesel engine oil.
My Indy pushes Torco dino oil.
I have installed several sets of rocker lockers & they work ! However if you have to remove the rocker arms be prepared for a hassle they are a pain to remove & you will probably have to buy another set to reinstall !
yup . Just removed valve cover. Then pulled rocker bolts . One at a time. Cylinder on base circle so no pressure on springs. Put sleeves in one at a time. And pressed them in with rockers still on head one bolt at a time. Then backed off all bolts and retorqued. Same gaskets and breather filter. Replace valve cover gasket and adjust pushrods. No more tick. In fact i can hear my fuel pump at idle.
The vibration of the engines on most Harleys including mine is enough to loosen certain bolts over time. For me it's the ones that fasten the split tanks on the top by the neck. Had to put extra washers and spacers in there to stop the tanks from vibrating too much but now even with loctite they eventually come loose. Never ending.
I have used RL's on three twin cams with no complaints. I run the Wood TW-6H cam in several bike and discovered the steep ramps cause the rocker arms to slide on the shaft when unloading. This results in the rocker arm hitting the support plate - making the ticking sound. HD is quite generous with the end play clearance., from about .005 to .020+ (just guessing, the shop manual is in the garage). I've used rocker arm shims for a shovelhead to reduce the end play to .010 or slightly less. This along with RL's has made the ticking tolerable . Measure the rocker arm end play with the valve fully open and under max side load. Place the shim on the non-load end of the rocker arm. I use .010 shims and so far no problems - 65K on the clock.
Wood cams make power but like you mentioned the ramp angle are steep. Lol they can and usually do make the valve train noisy, which is to be expected and about the only complaint I've ever got about them.
Do you have a sample of the noise before you shimmed the rockers? I’m running Woods 999-6A and the motor is very noisy. It supposedly has rocker lockers installed when the work was done.
@@Dixifrog I don't have noise samples, sorry. This fix I found on an HD forum I believe. The reason I believe it works is the manual calls for a 0.003 - 0.013 end clearance when new, and then goes on to say replace parts when its 0.025. That's a big gap. The TC push rods are angled slightly and push the rocker to one side or the other when opening the valve, thus end gap should be measured with the valve open - the side with gap is the non-load side of the rocker. Typically, I've found the gaps 0.015 or more, so I just add a 0.010 shovelhead shim on the non-load side to reduce the gap. Sometime the rocker support is a little tweeked when not torqued down and you need to fight it a bit to get the shim in. Once reinstalled and tightened down the end play should be rechecked. Atleast now I can hear the Reinhart's, and blame any ticking on the valves closing. Overall the job is not too hard, just a little time consuming - with taking measurements and readjusting the pushrods. Good luck.
Thanks for responding. I will take a look at the end play when it comes apart for new rocker box gaskets. Thanks for the heads up.
2004 SEEG @85k km, had a lifter failure, replaced the 4 OEM’s with S&S units and installed the rocker lockers. Very silent top-end now, most engine noise now originates from lower down the engine. Excellent product @ good price.
To be precise: I installed the "ROCKOUT Rocker Shaft Inserts" for $15.95 on eBay
I have the kit need to install it, while you have the rocker covers off and installing the lockers, should Iswap the stock rockers with roller rockers I have a 2006 Springer Twin Cam 88 unless it has rollers from the factory?
It won't have rollers from the factory but you won't need to install roller rockers unless you just really want to.
I'm running rocker lockers on my 91 Evo they took out a lot of the noise but not all of it, being a mechanic, I followed the recommended procedures, then on the rear cylinder I seen how I could speed up the process, I could see where the rocker arms were contacting the bolts as there were wear marks, in a nutshell I would recommend the lockers, they definitely made a difference
I just put the RL's on my twin cam. I pressed them in with a mandrel made on a lathe. Since the rocker box is a cast part the bolt bore is tapered from two directions and has casting flash in there. This flash collapsed the RL's. If you install as per instructions with the bolts and backing nut this will probably be avoided to a degree. I suspect that the bolt will be a PITA to remove if the casting flash collapses the RL. Also make sure that the RL's are about .06" below flush to accommodate the fillet between the shank and head of the bolt. It seems quieter now but i's hard to tell. Like you said these engines make noise everywhere. Mine had a wicked whine which was masking a lot of the tick. Incidentally the whine was from the worn out cam chain tensioners. I replaced those and now I can hear the valvetrain but it's nothing that alarming. I use the 20-50 SYN3 oil. I'm going to try the Amsoil next.
If you can hear your engine you need to turn up the music or turn up the throttle, lol. Freaking love Harleys.
I have to agree with the Amsoil statement..
For myself in northern cali.
100 degree days go for months.
I currently run 60w. amsoil.. even in cooler weather,,, I have no complaints
It worked for me, I was surprised and pretty happy I didn't have to anything more than change the oil.
My 2000 FLSTC had 50k on it (yeah a ticking time bomb), so when I did the teardown to put in hydraulic cam chain tensioners, and some other goodies in the old ride It wasn't a big deal to also change the breather assembly elements and put in a set of RL. They were a big improvement.
Those hydraulic tensioner setups are the way to go on the 88!
@@GixxerFoo gear driven cam's Is the ultimate mod
i put those lockers in my 98 fatboy 80 evo and they were easy to install and work great but they to do wear out and the motor will start to tick again but those rockers pop right out specially if u keep the alingment tool Dk customs send with the locker kit.. I WILL PUT THEM IN EVERY HARLEY I WILL EVER OR WORK ON.. GREAT PRODUCT...
Definitely will do the next time the tops are off, but my odd experience was when I tried Amsoil and Mobile1 on my TC88, the valve train got WORSE. Went back to Valvoline conventional and she's a good bit quieter. I don't mind Dino blood because a) she was designed to run it and b) my motors NEVER see dirty oil. When it's caramel, it comes out, usually by 3k or earlier.
Oil is cheap insurance for sure! You know I've had engines go both ways with dino and synthetic. To me it kinda goes back to no two engines are alike.
I noticed the same thing on my 99 Crown Vic. I use only Valvoline lubricants in all my vehicles.
@@georgewetzel4380 Done your research I see.
I use Valvoline VR1 straight 50 in my 06 Road King 67k miles
I agree real oil works !!
Using the best oil and making sure it's clean will go a long way my bike has 250 thousand miles on it and I've never had to do a motor job on it she still run,s great
That just goes to show what good maintenance will do for you!
Pushrod engines are noisy regardless but I'd think about installing them if I had the engine apart. The truth is while I love my Harley their tolerances are probably more than twice what they should. Have you ever heard a twin-cam engine that was built with proper specs? I have and it makes a huge difference.
No doubt, you get a twin cam that's been rebuilt and toleranced correctly it's night and day.
New to the channel, so far these videos are great. That being said I have had a Honda Shadow that I fully restored and customized myself. A friend of mine can no longer ride due to cancer (that bastard!) but he sold me his HD. A ‘99 Ultra Classic.
You are more right than you realize about all the ticks and what not. I first got it and drove it home and I thought I was in for a bit of work ahead of me. This is my first HD ticks and knocks galore! I took it to a HD shop and the tech took it out for a ride and came back and reassured me this is one heck of a good bike. Runs and sounds perfect for a HD. And it has over 80K on it. It just took me a bit to get accustomed to the new noises. But now the Shadow is in the corner all sad because it never gets looked at let alone ridden. 😁
That's not a tick... that music to my ears. I love that Harley music. It let's me know things are alive and working to haul my butt around. It's the sound or freedom, a sound of a Era that snowflakes are trying to take from us... Long live that Harley music!!
It's a good thing that Shovelheads aren't still around - all of these folks would be going insane!
Right on brother
Yea know rite but I’ve wondered about the lockers but if they design it to be loose so it could have room to expand I’ve wondered wouldn’t that be to tight yea it’s just the boxes but that was always my concern it would be to tight we spend time on trying to loosening up primary chains and try to tighten up parts of the motor but yea some r pretty loud of tick
Been under a rock, when showed oil lines coming from tank..I was like huh..no hoses..guess all know what I ride..old shovel and newer evo.. wonder if have for the shovel..but don't think I would hear the change anyway..ie shovel is 108 with 2 inch straight drags..and half deaf.
Snowflake is when you take care of your Harley lol
Toward the end, you highlighted that for only $25, you can take that noisy tick out of the top end. You said that's a great benefit, and it is. However, I would have also highlighted the fact that it relines everything inside a lot better than Factory and eliminates the uneven wear of the pushrods and roller assemblies and such. Otherwise, once again, you put out another awesome video with very helpful information. Thank you.
He said exactly that, apparently you missed it
Greetings from Nova Scotia, Canada 🇨🇦 Thank you for all you do.
Always great info!
Thanks for watching!
I became aware of this annoying ticking on the top end of my 05 Night Train, so when I built my 95" on my custom, I installed the Rocker Lockers from the onset...man, what a difference! It sounds like a sewing machine!!!
Go to an inline four for that annoying tick . As for Harley's I hear that mechanical noise . I don't treat my Harley's like crap . I do like AMS oil in my R1 . That's another bike I take care of but when it comes to putting that performance to the test that ams oil does it . Still smooth when changing the oil
Why has it taken me 2 years to see this video!? Pretty much gave up on my Evo Dyna. Thank you!
Have rocker lockers easily installed took out some tick but not all. Love them. Be careful taking off rocker assembles they can bend if pressurized.
Just bought the parts to change the tensioner shoes etc on my twin cam. Thinking of changing the cams too, but have the rocker locks ready to go. Also oil try Royal Purple Synthetic 20/50. Good quality oil which is expensive but great. Another good video and I will come back to you later.
If you're gonna have the cam chest open it makes sense to get some cams in there. Expensive up front doing it all at once but it's already tore down and you're right there. Expensive oil is cheap insurance in my book!
@@GixxerFoo There are good oils and then there are expensive oils that more than double the price but don’t give you any better protection. There are plenty of comparisons of the extremely expensive oils to the lesser expensive ones that prove it. If I was going to pay $12 to $15 a quart I’d just go with Amsoil.
Hey guys thanks for the replies. For sure I am looking at cams but would appreciate a recommendation. Not looking for major league complicated; but got Mikuni HSR45 already so just want the engine to breath better and pull harder without any other work. Recommendations appreciated. Oil wise in the U.K. is Royal Purple full stop. Very few American oils available that are specialty. Peace bros, stay free. It’s getting harder.
ever heard of ROCK OIL? Its from the UK. Expensive but its worth it. I use it in my Honda CB750 FOUR SOHC. Its air cooled and runs just fine in the phx Heat. Havent tried it any of my HDs but I know it will work. Sold in pints of course since it from jolly ol england!
@@chopperchopster Rock Oil is great stuff, my friend wouldn’t use anything else in his race Yamaha,s. Royal Purple is expensive especially over in the U.K. But they reckon it can reduce cylinder head temps by up to 20 degrees on evo and twin cams. I’ve already got the oil so might as well give it a try. Ride free bro.
I used the Rockout Rocker Product bushings and they worked well. The gent even sent my kit out before receiving payment.(I had mailed a money order)
Been watchin several of your vids. My heritage is gettin up there in miles. As soon as its paid off, im gunna start buildin the engine.
Thank you for watching! What all do you have in mind on the Heritage?
@@GixxerFoo its a 96ci. Im still doin research, but leanin towards a 116ci stroke n poke and carb conversion. Got a feelin its either got a cam in it or an efi problem, but it idles like a carbed bike now.
Good timing I just changed my oil, since it’s been very hot I put 2 quarts 25w60 spectro conventional & 1.5 qts S&S 20w50 full synthetic that I always run. Motor is quieter than new. I already have rocker lockers but you could still hear it but not as bad. Now very quiet 🤫
Forgot it’s a 2015 103 HO
That's awesome! It's a great feeling to get that noise out of the top end!
I have a 2000 FLSTC that I bought with 11k miles on it. It had a little tick on the front cylinder. I wanted to replace the cam chain tensioners, regardless of wear, because 23 year old plastic.
Since I was going to have it apart anyway, I checked the rocker shafts and they were not loose and showed no signs of being the culprit. IE they weren't loose, the bolts showed no witness marks from the shafts tapping them and the cutouts were not up against the bolts.
I installed the rocker lockers anyway, just in case I missed something, and put the engine back together.
I filled it with Amsoil. (I assume it had whatever the dealer uses in it, as it had just had a documented 3 hole change before I bought it.)
The tick is now worse!
I guess I will try a different brand of oil and see if that makes a difference, but I think I see lifters and adjustable pushrods in the near future.
If I could afford it, I would put a gear drive cam kit in it,(pinion shaft is .002) along with the lifter kit and be done with the engineering shortcomings of my year twin cam (at least until the compensator needs replaced)
but I'm an old guy on fixed income so all that will have to wait until I go back to work to stack up a little money next winter.
Right now, summer is here and the road calls.
Honestly a little ticking in top is pretty normal on these bikes, I am surprised Amsoil didn't quiet it down a little. I did have a Vrod that ticked a little bit on Amsoil, but that was improved from the Screamin Eagle oil in it.
EVO forever. My 883 EVO is pretty darn smooth. No ticks or knocks. You do hear a bit of valve noise on the high RPM, but it doesn't bother me much because the motor exhaust is so loud and sweet.
I just ordered a set of Rocker Lockers. Since I'm finishing the install of an S&S Big Bore kit, I might as well fix the tick before I close up the top end.
Thanks for your vids! The rocker lockers by themselves, did not cure the tick. In addition to the rotational slop on the rocker shaft, I also noticed a fair amount of lateral play. I'm wondering how much lateral play is acceptable on the rockers.
no noise from a Harley eng. you have a problem. there all noisy. what makes em quiet is correct. assembly. start at the flywheels, and work your way up. in my twin cams, I changed the chain drive cams to gears, a fueling kit 525 cam, with oil pump, lifters, pushrods, gaskets, and roller rockers, what a difference, expensive but worth it. as for my shovel truit & osborn flywheels and a complete rebuild..in any case, I 100% agree with you, oil, it's the eng's blood. I had an oil company silogram, Manny the owner blended me motorcycle oil 20-60wt, semi-syn, monster truck grave digger used their oil, Dyna race, Manny called their MC oil Dyna cycle, great oil. they Mfg. heavy lubes for the industry. ships, city buses, trucks, heavy equipment, all machinery. never used a better oil. you can also use STP in whatever oil you use, it's full of zink and moly. big difference, change the oil at 3-4000 mils, and your good to go. you do a great review and subject matter, keep 'em coming. TKS
You can shim the rocker arms also. Toward the push rods of course.
That's what we used to do back in the day on shovelheads. There was a guy in California who made nice shims you could buy mail-order and I put a lot of them in over the years working on shovels. Harley-Davidson allowed .004 to .020 end play. That's a lot of slop if you ask me.
Ive enjoyed alot of your content for awhile. You got a sub
Welcome aboard and thank you for the sub! We really appreciate your support on the channel!
@@GixxerFoo no problem. I have a 2006 flhxi 88 twin so your content appeals to me greatly 👊
I have a 1967 XLH Sportster in old days I would ride it and it would make a lot of Lifter noise. I would stop at the bar for a beer and on the way home it would run very well. I called it a 6 pack Tune up
Best advice so far, it makes sense. Thank you.
Thank's for the enlightenment, your videos are much appreciated!!!
I have an 04 Ultra, I have adjusted the valves a dozen times in the 70K or so on the motor. Inspected rockers, lifters, changed pushrods, and can't make it go away. Why did Suzuki quit making the Cavalcade, or Yamaha quit making the Venture? I could be riding a nice 80something water cooled V-4 with gobs of torque without cooking my package in traffic, while listening to valves tick. My poor decisions never cease to amaze me.
You just explain in a clear way and give us lots alternative to solve. Thanks
Thanks great video!! But I have roller rockers!! 86 FXSTC Nothing really left on original Harley motor built 3 times just balanced crankcase wheels & piston connecting rods!! Redshift hand ground cam too many things to list, but what a screaming banshee of a motor!! Last build fall of 21, that's it last me till I'm gone!!!😊 9:26
I have a 12 streetglide and it sounds like there’s a playing card in you’re rims like you did when your a kid, just can’t tell if it’s coming from the exhaust or if it’s on the top right side of the engine
You might try the old stethoscope method with an ear on a screw drive on top of that motor. That will tell you real quick if that noise is in your top end or not.
Thanks Gix! Made my day! My 1990 883 sounds like an old Ford 😬 up close.
Perfectly normal but none the less annoying!
Hey thanks I got my first Harley iron 1200 I got almost 17,000 miles on it now it's still pretty quiet thanks for the update have a good day
Right on! I love that Iron 1200! They should of build that bike a long time ago, dang you have put some miles on it already!
Modern day chopper
I put my rocker lockers in around 80k. It was a fairly easy process. At 125k now, no issues. Less noise! But, it is a Harley. Noise is part of the deal!!
All of the pushrod bottom end cam engine issues have been fixed for good. The new revolution max engine has changed the way forward for Harley Davidson.
The Revolution Max is going to push Harley into new market segments and I'm excited for it. I'll always keep my air cooled 45 but I am waiting for more of these new liquid cooled models to come out to see if there's anything I can't live without.
Foo, are S&S roller rockers worth the money for a bolt in cam? I know their value in built car engines due to less push-pull on the valve stem resulting in less valve guide wear. The higher the lift the greater the benefit but at $600 plus they’re a bit spendy. Do you know what effect they would have on the Harley tick? Thanks for educating this Harley novice and my wallet thanks you for suggesting a Harley mod that doesn’t leave it exsanguinated at only $25.
I would say the rollers are not necessary with the bolt in cam. You really don't develop a need for those unless your putting in something like a 600 plus lift cam that barely let's the bike idle and you're going from zero wfo and off.
Hey Brother whats your thoughts on running Synthetic oil in a 88 Evo? I used to without any problems like leaking past gaskets or other seepage problem. I was running Mobil1 V-Twin oil with 1/2 to 2/3 quart Lucas oil Stabilizer. Also put 8oz. of Motorkote in crankcase. I switched private mechanics and he recommended to me that I should be running regular mineral oil in an Evo motor. Because thats what they were designed to be lubed on. It made sense so I changed over to HD reg. Oil along with the Lucas and Motorkote added as before. Motor is a little louder butseems to be fine. I was just wondering what your thoughts were on the subject. Since we both know the Synthetic oil flows and lubes better than conventional oil. THANK YOU: C LOOD
I had ticking from the heads on my carbureted 02 heritage Springer and determined that it was leaning out with the throttle cracked at cruising speed. After putting a sportster needle and a couple of washers under the needle it quietened it down and ran cooler.
I don’t know if I waited too long or what but I installed rocker lockers on my sporty and they just fell down the bolt and into the motor because the holes were worn
Yeah, I tried them. I have the woods TW-9-6 I sent my heads out to branch and O’Keefe. They did a really great job won’t fit a stock. They recommended those and I really good for one 110 , what is 10 to one compression I didn’t wanna go crazy with the compression it’s 120 foot pounds and the same torque. I put those rocker lockers in there didn’t help, but that is one noise engine really runs good. I have a big radio in my bike. but as you know, if you try to make too much power out of these, it takes dependability away. And I put a lot of miles on the highway 2 up and heavy it goes. They said it’s the overlap on the exhaust and intake. I don’t know damn good cams if you don’t mind the noise. The rocker lockers did not help this. I think the normal stuff. so any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I know you’re a big wood guy. I didn’t put roller rocker arms so it’s not hitting the rocker cover. But it’s just a front cylinder isn’t hurting anything. I don’t think it just pretty noisy, but it’s a twin cam.
I just did the cheap old trick. I use Marvel Mystery Oil and the ticks are about 75% gone. Lubes and cleans the top end better than Seafoam from my experience. Seafoam works better for compression.
Marvel is one hell of a product, I been using that stuff forever myself too. Lol I was using the old metal cans of it my dad still had when I was a kid in my dirt bikes.
I run the MMO in the gas for my Model A, you two adding some to the oil.
my bike is a O5, just had the motor rebuilt to a 103. harley first said oil changes every 5,000. they have since up dated the t.c's to every 2,500 mile oil changes. I used synthetic since I bought my bike new. after my motor rebuild I now use bel-ray mineral oil.
I just put a couple of drops of red loc-tite on the rocker shaft. Bolted it all down. Let it dry. can remove with heat if needed. $4.97
Hey that works too!
I use Johnson lifters in my last 6 Evos and 2 TCs and all ticking gone. I also use Castrol GTX 20w 50 car oil in all!
I'm not a question for you I've got a noise only while slowing down on my 2016 Street glide it goes away when I pull the clutch while still in motion slowing down I would appreciate any feedback thanks
I have a 96 Fatboy with less than 30000 miles I change the oil to Royal Purple and ever since I've done it it's rattle to beat the band what do you think about me changing it back to a straight 50 Dino?
Some motors are just weird like that, you might try going back with some good old conventional oil in that Evo. Even my dads Vrod starting making some rattles with Amsoil, we went back to Screamin Eagle on it.
@@GixxerFoo hey I got another question for you on my EVO do you ever run ATF in your primary?
My TC 96” had a tick. Bugged me. Eventually figured it was normal. Was time for an oil change and accidentally left with an M8 Softail. New bike too quiet.
Lol those new M8's are pretty quiet!
I recently installed a similar product called “Rock Out”. Same idea. Uses the brass shims like Rocker Locker. It took at least 1/2 of the top end “tick” out. I also switched to Amsoil, hoping that it would eliminate a bit more of the noise. So, bottom line, I still have some of the annoying tick, but now only in the 2,000-2,300 RPM range. So, still annoying, but MUCH better. I might investigate another brand of oil, but I do like the Amsoil product.
You can take care of the noise by shimming the rocker arms end play. I think the spec is .003 to .013" or so... If they have .010-.015 end play they will click. You can verify this with the rocker cover removed and push pull on the rockers in valve closed position. You will hear it click.
@@MegaCusco Yes. After shimming the bolts I noticed there was still some end-play, but only on one rocker arm. I could still hear it click. So, I’m pretty sure you are right about the remaining noise. I’m not sure how to safely shim that end-play out. I don’t want to put something in there that will end up contaminating the whole engine. Have you done it before? I have even considered just buying a new rocker arm but might end up with more noise again and just end up chasing another problem.
Do you use the same oil for Tran motor and primary
No. I have never used the same oil for all three holes. I have used Amsoil primarily. But, now I have BelRay in the trans and Spectro 25-60 (Dino) in the engine. The Spectro seems to quiet it down a bit, but still annoying.
I had a tick coming out of my rocker box that started mid trip. Tried to limp her home and died on the freeway. Is this a lifter issue?
I’m looking into the rocker lockers. Can I do it with the top covers off, tank on bike but lifted up for clearance?
Ummmm possibly but it's tight, taking the tank off gives you clearance and helps prevent damage.
Rocker lockers worked for me. Destroyed a few in the process of installing them. What also works is drilling and tapping, then installing a set screw to lock the rod.
That's a really good idea, I've seen that done a time or two. Rocker Lockers can be a real pain to get straight when you press them in, I've had to use a couple myself in the past.
Can these be installed on my stock 80" Evo FXDL with only the removal of the gas tank or do I need to pull the motor from the frame?
I'm just wondering, how long rocker lockers will last? I've heard in some engines, that the rocker lockers came apart after a while.
(Back in the old days, we would get rid of ticks, by burning their but with a cigarette!!..lol..!!)
Back to the real problem;
I ordered some rocker shafts from S&S, a couple of years ago, but haven't installed them yet due to my Sportster is my only ride! I'm 64yo and don't have a garage or time lately to tear down my ride. But I've been wanting to install the S&S rocker shafts, and also get some S&S lifters, to see if they would quiet that tick down once and for all!
You always post great videos! Thank you!
I've see them quiet it down a bit but Harley's are just pure mechanical. I believe with the S&S parts they did work out that factory defect.
They do help but at the same time I swapped my rocker plates out for some cnc billet pieces.. bout 250-300 bucks but a huge difference (replaced rocker plates because I broke one coming home from work)
Good breakdown, Gixxer! Also, let’s not forget that Harley also did away with the bronze bushings in 2011 not only on the cam plate but also on the con rods, right? I do not have a PhD in business, but I cannot imagine for even a minute that the reputational damage that all these “cost savings” have done to the company in no way makes up for the pennies or few dollars per unit “saved” when bean counters overrule engineering. In either case, it’s nothing short of a disgrace that they did it, and now continue to do it (M8). Then, they actually Beta Test the product ...in the marketplace, utilizing not their R&D money, but our money.
I don't recall the bronze bushings going away but it wouldn't surprise me at all, I'll ask around about that though. When they started cutting that's really hurt the quality, sure they crank out motors and save money but it's not good for business.
@@GixxerFoo I've read several Forum posts to that effect , where guys were scratching their heads wondering where the bushings were. It supposedly happened with the 2011's and on (Twin Cam).
I started using Red Line products about a year ago. Synthetic. Excellent performance. Especially the pink tranny fluid.
Red Line is top of the lines hands down, better than Amsoil if you ask me. Expensive, but it's the highest quality synthetic available.
@GixxerFoo no ticks either with RL. Smooth and quiet. Other TC riders ask me how my 88 runs so smooth.
Cannot comment on the newer engines, but I can attest to the earlier engines had cold rolled steel, bronze coated, rocket arm bushings. Replaced with solid bronze bushings and never heard the tics again.
Good morning 🌅,GixxerFoo, I think I have this issue too, though I not sure, I have been for ride today about 70 miles, the temperature was up in the 30s today, after I had done around 30 to 40 miles I started to hear a noise, So I pulled over could not really hear anything, but when I rev the engine a couple of times, I then started to hear a noise noise again, by the time I got back the oil temperature was around 110 on my dip , don’t know how accurate it is, Definitely got a noise I did think at one point it might be the compensator, can’t quite tell where the noises coming from, obviously riding the bike, Deuce dude France. Look forward to tomorrow night catch up with you then.,
They all make the tick, supposed to be normal. Mine do it sometimes and other times they don't. Today's video is going to be a little different, a lot of overwhelming comments about the goings on at Harley.
@@GixxerFoo okay, looking 👀 forward to seeing you later, France.
Awesome information bro I just bought my Harley this spring it only has 15k miles on it but it it's a 2002 dyna 88ci no ticking at idle but I notice some ticking when riding like when engine isn't laboring just cruzin speed like when I back off the rpms I've went with synthetic oil but maybe I need to go with amsol not sure maybe add some zink to oil what's ur thoughts man
I would check inspect those cam chain tensioners for sure, the ticking noise should only be noticable at idle.
I had rocker lockers installed on my 06 heritage while I hot a 95 bore, 18000 miles later I have a terrible knock in my front cylinder and thats burning hatley oil,,, last winter I put carquest 20 w 50 oil for the winter,, I didn't change it this summer because the noise went away after abt 800 miles,, ,,, can these rocker lockers come loose or what the heck,
Tried the rocker locker kit on my 05. No luck. Engine runs great but still has top end tick. Just nature of the beast I guess.
Mine squeaks from the top end. Hasn’t hurt the reliability but it’s been driving me nuts! I’m hoping doing the stage 2 will fix that!
Check out those rocker lockers, most top end noise is just that.
@@GixxerFoo
Thank you sir! I will look into it! Gotta save my pennies for cams, bearings, cam plate, rocker lockers, and get it all done at once!
Amsoil is definitely preferred, but hard to pass up Syn3 when an H-D dealer offers 15% off on oil change kits.
Yeah it's hard to beat a good discount like that!
Where do you get rocker lockers from
Check out DK Customs www.dkcustomproducts.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=rocker+locker
So, Harley Davidson's Screaming eagle oil is made to go in all compartments. Can you do the same with other synthetic oils???
Most all synthetic Vtwin motorcycle oils will work for the primary and transmission as well. I would say all but there might be some wild anomoly in synthetic motorcycle oils out there.
I've watched some of your other videos in the past, and respect your opinion. I've had my first harley for 3 years, it's an 06 street glide efi with a built big bore short stroke. I never rode it with the stock engine. My dad just bought an 05 electra glide classic with mild cams and true duals but carburated. The difference in vibration between his and mine is unbelievable... Mine barley has any, and his seems to quite a bit and it does it steadily up threw the RPM. Vibrating into the seat. It certainly doesn't SEEM like a motor mount is broken, i mean it seems good and tight... it almost seems like it's just the harmonics of the way its running?? Or am i missing somthing that could help dramatically? Is it the cams they chose maybe? I mean it's not so bad that it's un-rideable but it sure is annoying enough for me to notice.
I have same 05 EGC as your dad and after {GixxerFoo} shared drop in cams video I had a well-respected H D Indy shop add RED-Shift 511 cams, SE cam plate w/ hydraulic tensioners upgraded w/ oil pump adjustable push rods my 88" has same vibrations, had about 20k on it prior to changes about 23k+ on it now and vib's are still the same so I'm extremely happy with performance and would do that to any 88" again. I've had 4-88" v-twins the B model softails are smoothest at idle to roughly highway speeds of 70ish but vibs are very annoying at much higher speeds these A models touring to me are much smoother past 2800 rpm at all speeds. Just my thoughts. Thanks for sharing your experience as it helped me with mine. Ride on