@@JettioSemptI would honestly wait for the deckard because If The leaks are ture Then You have The entire Steam Page+A PC Built on Your Head With is Basically The Vision Pro But Better For The Lower Price
@mikaelbjrdal1544 Idk, the Deckard is probably gonna cost more than the quest 3 and might have the same issues with the valve index when trying to sync the resolution and fov. But we'll see
@@VirtualChap2025 Would love to see a review on it by you when it‘s out! I also hope that it‘ll either be announced at Meta Connect 23 in September or early 2024 when AVP will be released - seems possible to me!
I think people severely underestimate how much processing power is needed to run any pc game wirelessly. As decoding is necessary, you need a very fast processor to move so much data through the air. My quest 2 sits at 80% gpu/cpu usage when running games from PC, and burns battery way faster than playing standalone games. This is why most pcvr headsets rely on cables, and deckard having such a fast chipset is really good news for both standalone and pcvr wireless modes.
@@eintyp4389 Absolutely. From my experience using a $60 5ghz WiFi 6 router, I get around 10ms delay, no stuttering, very good bitrate and not much battery loss. Wired PCVR is definitely becoming outdated.
@@eintyp4389 i can stream my gpu to my phone over the same home network with less than 3ms lag added. VR isnt moving fast enough. As long as its wired no one cares.
@@eintyp4389 Are you streaming from the other side of the planet? Steaming VR games is very doable, and depending on the game you would not notice at all.
i personally hope it's going to be a dedicated pc vr headset, i dont need a standalone unit, all i want is a lightweight headset with wide fov, inside out tracking, display port connection and quality display
@@waedi_why? It has a lot of great games coming to it. Also, I can play the whole library I have on my Q2 on it. Also, it's more powerful. And slimmer. And has color pass-through that is looking really good. And has pancake lenses. And a better screen resolution. Better comfort. And better controllers than the Q2. I will definitely be buying a Q3, maybe not directly on launch, but probably before I ever get a Deckard if the Deckard is not announced this year.
Fr one of the biggest things for me is the weight of the headset. I can’t wear my quest 2 for more than a half hour without it hurting my head even with a custom headstrap
If the dekard is running steamOS (a modification of arch linux), then I will be buying it as long as I can afford it. I want to dich windows, but I need it for occulus software
I'm gonna do my best to ride out the quest 2 until this bad boy comes out. I've been resisting buying the index second-hand for months. Vr is a crippling addiction haha
Awww. As an owner of a high-end pc I was kinda hoping for an incredibly high-end HMD that’s reliant on the pc for rendering. Making it stand-alone as well just serves to drive up the price. But from a business standpoint I guess I can’t fault them, stand-alone means more potential customers. :/
@@ge2719 the problem is that the standalone part is not needed for some people and it costs money, a lot of money. So, those people will have to pay for it and won't use it.
@@RanmaruRei its 😁 tepy needed though, if you want teacking, and eye tracking, and foveated rendering then you need a chipset that can do it. Desktop gpus suck at foveated rendering. Whereas an soc like snapdragon is designed to be able to render sections at different resolutions. Plus the argument that sometimes ne with abhigh end desktop cant afford a standalone vr headset... Rather a mute point. The index, a completley none standalone headset cost 3 times as much as the quest 2, a standalone headset. Desktop vr people still bought the index.
if they go the same route the vision pro goes with the way power is distributed then they could put laptop hardware in this headset and have much greater performance whilst being tethered to a power source. sadly batteries and size is what keeps standalone devices from becoming what it should have been all these years. instructions per clock has gone down a lot these past two decades it's simply impossible to have fully wireless devices right now that are capable of high resolution gaming.
That isn't really possible with the way 3D rendering works. I mean, that's basically what we already have with a quest 2/3 where you can play games stand alone then tether to the PC and have your pc run the game. What you are describing isn't possible without using what we already have in terms of tethering because having the headset do 10% of calculations then sending data to PC to do 90% of calculations would be slower than normal tethering due to data transfer rates.
@LM-cc7qz we have things quite similar for gaming laptops with egpus. have the standard performance and get it a big buff when a beefier gpu gets connected. out of the possibility for this generation i think but the technology isn't inconceivable
If Valve actually makes a headset that is VR Standalone that can support eye tracking to improve performance, and offer you the opportunity to do anything you want like the SteamDeck does. Meta is in trouble!.. The only issue I see is the price for some people who want to start VR. Maybe lite and Pro versions of the headset to avoid this?
i think valve learnt their lesson from the steam machines, and realise that they cant be making multiple versions. If anything it will maybe have versions like the steamdeck, with more of less internal storage built in. other than that it just wont work to have a "lite" version, because the only way to make it cheaper is to remove features, and you cant remove eye tracking and expect it to still work at all because it will need foveated rendering to be practical at all.
Meta won't be in trouble, they have a library of hundreds of games, x86 architecture would need either heavy optimization for pcvr titles one by one or developing from scratch. Only titles that could be ported fast are ones that have both PCVR and Quest versions
I’m not so sure the performance scales as easily as 5x with the addition of foveated rendering. Remember the steam deck chip only has to drive a 1280x800 display, whereas with a full on VR display that has many times higher resolution than that.. with the added requirement of high refresh rate for reduced motion sickness. It’s still difficult to render all of that. Foveated rendering certainly helps, but it’s not the only thing that will help solve this problem.
I actually appreciate the fact they aren't rushing out headsets every year like all the other VR companies and instead taking their time to build noticeably improved products. I didn't get an Index because of my wider than average PD but I will almost certainly opt for Valve's next release if they resolve this and have some quality lenses.
I had an insider source slip a few details to me about it. Pancake lenses, they're working with AMD to make a next generation version of the deck SOC with newer graphics, hybridized design for both PC and standalone, and more, but mostly it just confirmed a lot of what we're already speculating. My guy works as a prototyping partner of some kind and says he's already had an engineering/validation sample on his desk. Told me to expect a soft goal for announcement in 2024 but it's valve so they wouldn't hesitate delays if it's not up to their standards yet. Basically their goal seems to be to regain the crown for the best, next generation, no compromises system for VR/PCVR/XR.
I sold my index because i thought it would be announced soon. I wanted to get ahead of the wave of mass selling of used units. 2024? I guess I'll buy a used quest 2 in the mean time.
Did they say anything about a potential price point? That seems to me like the biggest unknown as of right now. I’ve seen people predict the $400-$500 range, all the way up to over $1000+
@@mikevanderlinde1895 The index was $1k because it was for enthusiast. This new headset might be able to do stand alone, so it's both a steam deck and VR headset. It might be 1k as it is filling that market as well. The SD was able to be sold for a loss as they make us the cost in game sales. I don't see people buying a ton of more games for the Deckard
@@awsome14619 good point, but I feel like with stand-alone being more mainstream, and the fact that you’d most likely only be able to buy games through steam on the deckard, what you said about the “sold at a loss which would be recouped with game sales” thing might apply to the deckard as well. I’m not sure though, a $1000 price tag really wouldn’t surprise me.
If they somehow manage to literally be ahead of the game AGAIN, and actually make this a reality within the timefram of the Vision Pros release... i honestly might cry tears of joy... as dramatic as that may sound, it feels like my dream is getting closer and closer to reality, and Valve the beasts that they are, i swear i wouldn't know how to show my appreciation anymore without seeming like a total weirdo... hahaha but then again, its if they do it, which, when it comes to Valve... they give me hope... and not anything in this world had given me so much hope as them >.
Literally the only fault that Valve has as a big company, is laziness or being slow. But when they deliver, they DO deliver! Meanwhile dumbass Meta getting sued literal billion of Euros/Dollars by Europe for violating European laws of Data Protection and Privacy.
Really really looking forward to this. I'm tired of Meta's bad firmware updates that have twice made it useless and I had to wait for them to push an update which is basically a lottery system.
i have a Rift S and Im gonna keep it for now theres nothing good out right now worth buying The index is old and still expensive if there isnt a new PCVR headset coming from oculus or valve im not buying anything else
Sounds good, BUT I really hope there is a display port for true PCVR. Mainly for driving and flight sim games. I thought about the pimax crystal because of this feature but I would rather my next headset come from VALVE.
@@fckcoleslaw8533 its not necessarily down to them, the amd chipset just doesnt have that sort of functionality of haveing a pc thats able to communicate with another c that way over a wire, and send tracking data to the pc, while the pc send video/audio etc... Thats why the oculus method uses usb and not a display port, because even if the hardware could communicate between two computers, a display port cant take tracking data. Which is also why the index has a proprietary cable thats connected to display port, usb and power. So they would basically need to have the deckard be a desktop pcvr headset that can take a wire direct to a pc, and then also include all of the standalone headset wiring, and you can somehow flip it between them. Thats just not going to be practical. and so the best option is wireless. And fortunately with eye tracking that means the data being sent first only need to e the part your looking at, and the rest can be highly compressed. So the headset has the potential to make wireless pcvr actually be a clean experience.
@@ge2719 Yet I doubt it. Because of the lag. Tbf, wireless is more comfortable, but it has its downsides, which I doubt can be resolved. I expect a sacrifice for convenience.
Great video! I normally find these types of hardware leak speculation videos a bit dry but you made this so informative and exciting. Very cool insight into what applications we could dream of being implemented
I really only use my VR-setups to play VRChat, so I hope it won't be standalone only, since unless it has more than 24GB of VRAM and 64GB or RAM it will be a downgrade and even those struggle in certain lobbies. And I hope it will keep being compatible with lighthouses as well, since the inside out tracking of the Quest 2 still looses tracking far too often when behind the player or when grabbing irl objects.
I'm sorry, but foveated rendering might get you two times the performance at best, much less 5 times, you should put down whatever you've smoking. Foveated rendering is awesome and is certainly the future of VR, but it's not some magic bullet. It's been already been done and the performance gains are pretty well established.
According to sony the psvr2's foveated rendering is a 4x performance boost. So if you have some serious eye tracking hardware and software then a 5x boost is possible.
@@Dawooded Unfortunately that's complete BS spin. That claim is from a completely cpu limited issue. Gpu frame time went from 14.3ms to 12.5ms,not exactly 4x😂
I've loved the idea of it ever since I heard about it, but it's not going to stop me buying a Quest 3. The Deckard is likely still years away from release.
The Quest’s head tracking is great, but the hand controller tracking is limited to being in sight of the headset. It’s not too bad, but the Index’s controller tracking is superb and it would be hard to go back. I’d be more than happy to have a device tethered to my gaming PC and lighthouses just so long as it’s wireless like the old Vive (with the wireless kit).
Valve helped put with the HP headset, it uses the same audio set up as the Index I think. I wouldn't be too surprised uf they got to learn some things with the tracking, if they got to help with the overall design and not just a couple specific parts.
ye. big question is when? could be still 2 years away, which is to long for me to wait. and since the index isnt worth its asking price anymore i have to look elsewhere
idk how to feel if it really is a standalone device. it might be interesting in the future but as it stands rn PCVR is still king. rn standalone vr headsets are just a cheap way to get people into vr before they graduate to using PCVR. Inside out tracking is also still not as great compared to light house based tracking. i own a rift s, and after trying a mate's index i really cannot be content with inside out tracking anymore, it's got so many downsides.
everybody thinks it's going to be a competitor with the 3, but imo it wont even be released till 2024 or later, just because we know its being worked on doesnt mean it'll be ready for sales by the time the 3 is out. i bet it'll be insane and will definitely top the 3 and would be worth the wait so im just gonna save up and hopefully by the time its on sale ill have enough for a full decked out setup with accessories and such
I'd settle for battery + processing happening outside a lighter, slimmer headset. Could be an armband-mounted processing unit or at the waist with the latter benefiting from some waist tracking.
I need passthrough, which is why i want the 3 but if this is announced and has full color passthrough with possible games, I'd wait but pass that, looks like I'm getting the Quest 3
I really really hope that if it's standalone it can still be plugged into a PC. I'd love inside out tracking as I can't use base stations, but I still want to be able to hook up to a PC for the better picture quality that comes with hooking up to a pc.
Valve has been perfecting game streaming for (at least) the last decade. I wouldn't be surprised if Deckard is capable of streaming in full res off of a full fledged gaming PC. I think the APU will be always used for Sensor/signal processing, interface, ETC. Instead of your Gaming PC being the full brain of the HMD, Deckard will probably use it's own independent interface, even when streaming games. Its easy to see how the eye tracking features will help with performance on the APU; but imagine the boost a full fleged gaming PC will have with those features- or the ability to just turn off the rendering/performance features and just run the eye sensors for games like VRC. I suspect Valve probably wont say anything until the software and hardware are stitched seamlessly together like on the Deck.
Having more onboard hardware is great even if you intend to use it as a PCVR headset. That hardware can be used for all kinds of operartions that can enhance the experience. Things like full body trackers, other spacial compute applications, and other future breakthroughs on the software side all while the PC does most of the heavy lifting. Seems like a big win. I do wish they would have made one with onboard processing and one without though, but complicating your product stack and the costs of producing and developing two kinds of devices probably isn't worth it.
So do I wait for this or get the current index. I don't care about standalone I want the absolute best headset to pair with my RTX4090 PC and take full advantage of the power available
I don't mind them taking time, I'd love to see it arrive. Currently just started toying with a Quest2, but I would like to be able to have the option between stationary use (sims and particular games) and in a play area.
My biggest concern would be storage available in the headset. Also, it would be amazing is you could upgrade the storage with something close to a ssd or a sdd to do so. I know these are high expectations, but if they are waiting this long to release it, I would like it to stand out from the other headsets out there.
What about outside in tracking, I highly doubt that Valve would tell all their full body motion tracking users that they cant use this or rely on a 3rd party tool to sync it all up.
You will probably still be able to use your base stations, just that they will only be used for the trackers and maybe for the controllers when they are behind you.
Yes. This is what I'm worried about. I don't want to mix my base station playspace with inside out playspace. It's doesn't stay synced well according to people I know who use Quest and trackers.
Not on board with the $1000 + possible price tag. I can understand the effort put into this, sadly this will reach only a very specific group of people. I'll probably get it after the next version gets released (if I am lucky)
My only hope is a wireless mode (if possible), but at this point I'm really craving face and eye tracking being built in and am starting to consider those a mandate. So hope for wireless, but require face/eye tracking.
What would you be playing standalone on x86 architecture? None Quest/Pico games would work. It would have PSVR2 size library (like 10 games) but with shitty standalone graphics.
@@adrenalinejunkie3828 I say nothing about high-end PCVR headset. I don't think that standalone on mobile x86 architecture is feasible as no current PCVR titles can ran on steamdeck hardware at 8 times more pixels then SteamDeck has. So you have to port EVERYTHING and heavily optimize for a new chipset. It would take years to have decent standalone x86 library. It's doable in principal but even if Deckard launches next year it would have less games then PSVR2 on start so it is NOT a competitor to ARM headsets in standalone space. High end PCVR as I said is another beast but much-much-much smaller market then standalone, for hardcore VR gamers only/
One interesting point is that the desktop that the Steam Deck uses called KDE Plasma and its GUI toolkit for apps already supports transparency and blurring. It is now only used to show more of your wallpaper through the apps, but I can imagine Valve using that for spacial computing where they could switch out the wallpaper background of a normal desktop with the camera passthrough. Valve already has experience with building their own Wayland compositor through Gamescope so they might extend Gamescope with spacial computing functionality or make a new compositor with Gamescope nested inside, because you can already run Gamescope inside of other compositors like the Plasma desktop.
so then does this mean you could use it for pcvr if you wanted but what im most exited about is that i can finally upgrade my quest 2 to a index cause the price will drop alot
I think what might be overlooked is the fact that as a PCVR company Valve is likely to give the headset hybrid capabilities. I don't see why it would be either or with tracking. Stand alone by default but base station capable also. Second, better than a virtual steam deck experience would be a hybrid unit where a PC does most of the CPU work and the headset processes the graphics making much higher fidelity VR available for even non VR capable devices that is still superior to stand alone gaming as well. Those are my wishkiat items at least. With all that has been accomplished via Virtual Desktop with the Quest as an android device, imagine what Valve can do with t a VR headset running a true custom OS. Meta will never catch up if Valve innovates outside of the box. Better yet, it may have a cheaper PC variant with the stand alone steam deck inspired processing unit being an optional purchas. Unnecessary for many if not most OCVR users but a game enabler for so many others. In any case it should be great. Let's hope they learned how to insure better quality and durability from the Index experience. As an index owner I am used to being content with what I have. The delayed announcement gives me a chance to be in a position to purchase when it is announced rather than having to I wish list it like I would today.
@@Evangeder then yeah I guess I should get it soon. I'm hoping to get my computer, in general. I'm having a friend build me one. It's pretty expensive. More than the headset Itself. So maybe I should be dumb and buy it first. Then get my pc.
I just hope it will do for VR what the Deck did for gaming in general, which is advancing Linux support enormously in one big leap. Linux VR is sorely lacking at the moment, this could change that dramatically.
Spacial computing does not, infact mean playing the entirety of your staam library in vr lol. If the computing part ist running the virtual screens on the same version of steam os they have for something like the steam deck, then vr games will probably have specific ports or graphivs settings for the deckard, and jot every game will be compatible performance-wise, not to mention controller compatibility
Valve could've had a few issues in the past sure, but it's Valve. They figure it out soley because they know their good products will rock the market time and time again.
Yes i understand the route they go, BUT: Why not also offer just a new workhorse ? A headset like the Index, but with more resolution, and wireless of course, and keeping the lighthouse-tracking. That would be not a high development-effort and would make a lot of people very happy. I only assume that it will be too late to do that, and so we'll have to wait for something that spends too much in having high compute-power inside the headset, but will be used only for transferring PC-VR to that device anyway.
one of the biggest limtations to VR use is the comfort factor - I would prefer the weight as mush as possible taken off the face and head, this still looks like it will be heavy.
The biggest issue with the Index, is the weight, and the heat. If they could just keep all the other stuff the same, and reduce these two things by half, they would have a huge boom in sales.
I really do hope they dont ditch the hand tracking. Although an upside to them ditching it would be for it to be maybe a bit more affordable for the average vr player.
My son is wanting the deckard so bad. Its frustrating Valve doesnt at least do a pre-order option so we don't end up buying a quest 3 this week. We could wait a few months knowing the deckard is coming by christmas. But the no pre-order option leaves us totally hanging. Private company or not, give us release dates already. Thanks for the video, another teaser damnit. lol
This sounds like a dream come true. I don't think I'm alone with playing quest2 because it's wireless and therefore easier to find a somewhat roomy area in your apartment without all the fuzz, but using steam link because the games in the meta store are pricey as f**k. Imagine beeing able to use standalone to find a roomy place and still enjoy a big game library! I cross my fingers and hope.
I never bought a Steam Deck, even though I love steam and people kept asking if I wanted one, but working from home I didn't see a huge need to take steam games off my PC. BUT... let me put those same steam games directly into my VR headset, and yeah, that is something I would definitely buy.
Also to agree with similar sentiments below, looks like I’m getting a quest 3 or a bigscreen hmd. Seeing as valve won’t won’t release even a whisper of a rumor of their products before the Q3 releases
there is one thing and one thing only I hope valve copies from ocu- oh right, "Meta" (oculus was such a better name) is the pro controllers, having the tracking cameras built into the controller itself fixed ALL the issues with inside out tracking and it's something everyone will need if they don't want to be looking at their hands 24/7 to maintain full tracking.
They could knock it out of the park if they made the HMD "just" a dumb HMD with all the latest tech (wifi, eyetracking pancake-lenses, etc.), and then made the Deck 2 as a wearable compute-unit/puck that could quadruple-duty as a handheld, battery, pancake-in-vr-controller and vr-sim-controller. It would basically create 3 products for the price of one: The Deck 2, The HMD that can be used for pcvr, and the combined Deckard standalone. It would also allow them to move a lot of weight away from the head, and focus on performance in a normal square form-factor, without having to cram it into a small curved HMD.
Honestly I would love my quest more if there was a way to bypass the battery when using on pcvr. It just gets really annoying when I forget to plug it in and it’s basically dead and I can barely play a pcvr game
my exp with dynamic resolution on regular displays is its responsible for giving me the worst migraine ive had in my life im highly skeptical of foveated rendering in VR because eye saccades are extremely fast, so much that a saccade affects your perception of time, 120hz would be minimum, its immensely faster than any sort of head movement, that mixed with variable depth could brutalize your eyes with any sort of framerate drop
Watched some leaked patents explained by SadlyItsBradley, and by the looks of it, I think they are also trying to make the tracking be lighthouse independent, don't take my word for granted, but I am doing educated guesses based on the specs, they have some angle sensitive photo diodes, and if I am correct, those could track without any lighthouse and just using a simple light in your room.
They could do it like this it would be standalone like the quest but with a Steam Deck like library but with Steam VR only games and Valve vr games that would be cool also the software is gonna be awesome
What do you think this is? It'll still support wireless VR to a desktop, even if it functions like a PC on its own. Like a steam deck playing a game from your desktop, it doesn't need to be one or the other. Plus being attached to a wire can be a pretty big deal breaker for some, they would already need a pretty solid processor to handle that to begin with
Deckard got my deck hard
I'm pinning this 🤣
@@VirtualChap2025 😁
Lol
The Valve Deckard reminds me of Rick Deckard from “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?”
Has it been hard for 1 year of waiting?
I want them to take as much time as they need to make it a solid experience.
well its either i but a quest 3 or the deckard
@@JettioSemptI would honestly wait for the deckard because If The leaks are ture Then You have The entire Steam Page+A PC Built on Your Head With is Basically The Vision Pro But Better For The Lower Price
That's what Apple seems to have done with Vision Pro and I also want Valve to do the same.
@@eaaeeeea Just imagine The Reaction On Apples Plans WIth Vr They would Be Lose so much Money
@mikaelbjrdal1544 Idk, the Deckard is probably gonna cost more than the quest 3 and might have the same issues with the valve index when trying to sync the resolution and fov. But we'll see
Love to see a RUclipsr that's as obsessed with the Valve Deckard as I am
I am indeed!
@@VirtualChap2025 Would love to see a review on it by you when it‘s out!
I also hope that it‘ll either be announced at Meta Connect 23 in September or early 2024 when AVP will be released - seems possible to me!
@@tituss_ I hope it gets announced when AVP is released.
I think people severely underestimate how much processing power is needed to run any pc game wirelessly. As decoding is necessary, you need a very fast processor to move so much data through the air. My quest 2 sits at 80% gpu/cpu usage when running games from PC, and burns battery way faster than playing standalone games. This is why most pcvr headsets rely on cables, and deckard having such a fast chipset is really good news for both standalone and pcvr wireless modes.
Streaming has entered the chat
@@fraserwhyte9694 is it realy viable already? I want to catch arrows in VR even 150ms Delay will not be cutting it.
@@eintyp4389 Absolutely. From my experience using a $60 5ghz WiFi 6 router, I get around 10ms delay, no stuttering, very good bitrate and not much battery loss. Wired PCVR is definitely becoming outdated.
@@eintyp4389 i can stream my gpu to my phone over the same home network with less than 3ms lag added.
VR isnt moving fast enough. As long as its wired no one cares.
@@eintyp4389 Are you streaming from the other side of the planet? Steaming VR games is very doable, and depending on the game you would not notice at all.
i personally hope it's going to be a dedicated pc vr headset, i dont need a standalone unit, all i want is a lightweight headset with wide fov, inside out tracking, display port connection and quality display
They need to compete with with quest though.
@@BeachbaIICS no, they don't since quest aims to be standalone
@@crashtestdummy87 and that’s where 99 percent of the vr market is now.
@@BeachbaIICS good joke
@@crashtestdummy87 quest 2 sold 18 million units. Valve index sold less than 150k
If they don’t announce it before the quest 3 comes out I’m sad to say I won’t be getting it.
Same I'm invested on the 3
Then I guess you aren't getting it.
the quest 3 is not a wise purchase
@@waedi_why? It has a lot of great games coming to it. Also, I can play the whole library I have on my Q2 on it. Also, it's more powerful. And slimmer. And has color pass-through that is looking really good. And has pancake lenses. And a better screen resolution. Better comfort. And better controllers than the Q2.
I will definitely be buying a Q3, maybe not directly on launch, but probably before I ever get a Deckard if the Deckard is not announced this year.
@@waedi_please explain
For me, my next headset MUST be lightweight and MUST have eye tracking for foveated rendering. Q3 is not enough to sell me.
The full-color pass-through and depth sensor is enough for me
Fr one of the biggest things for me is the weight of the headset. I can’t wear my quest 2 for more than a half hour without it hurting my head even with a custom headstrap
@@Jimbo609surely it cant be worse than the rift s that im still stuck with hahahaha
@@ImNotFine44 bro I used to have the rift s ik exactly what youre talking about 😂
@Jimbo609 me who just wore my quest 2 defeat strap for 7 hours with no pains....
I'd pay 1500. Hoping more like 1200 though. But VR without Facebook would be sooooo amazing!!! 😊
@@soldier7332 valve isn't the type of company to price their products too high, like look at apple and their headset. They are the ones that do that
If the dekard is running steamOS (a modification of arch linux), then I will be buying it as long as I can afford it. I want to dich windows, but I need it for occulus software
I'm gonna do my best to ride out the quest 2 until this bad boy comes out. I've been resisting buying the index second-hand for months. Vr is a crippling addiction haha
Aye love my horror games on the quest.
Defiantly feeling your pain
I'm over here, still with my Quest 1 I bought in early 2019, waiting patiently to finally upgrade to either the Quest 3 or Deckard
@@LinusDropTips At least you're patiently waiting. I am so impatient ahahah GABEN, PLEASE
@@LinusDropTipsjeeeez
Awww. As an owner of a high-end pc I was kinda hoping for an incredibly high-end HMD that’s reliant on the pc for rendering. Making it stand-alone as well just serves to drive up the price. But from a business standpoint I guess I can’t fault them, stand-alone means more potential customers. :/
no reason it couldnt also be wireless to a desktop, or wired.
@@ge2719 the problem is that the standalone part is not needed for some people and it costs money, a lot of money. So, those people will have to pay for it and won't use it.
@@RanmaruRei its 😁 tepy needed though, if you want teacking, and eye tracking, and foveated rendering then you need a chipset that can do it.
Desktop gpus suck at foveated rendering. Whereas an soc like snapdragon is designed to be able to render sections at different resolutions.
Plus the argument that sometimes ne with abhigh end desktop cant afford a standalone vr headset... Rather a mute point. The index, a completley none standalone headset cost 3 times as much as the quest 2, a standalone headset. Desktop vr people still bought the index.
if they go the same route the vision pro goes with the way power is distributed then they could put laptop hardware in this headset and have much greater performance whilst being tethered to a power source.
sadly batteries and size is what keeps standalone devices from becoming what it should have been all these years.
instructions per clock has gone down a lot these past two decades it's simply impossible to have fully wireless devices right now that are capable of high resolution gaming.
I have a reliable PC that I use tethered, but I also want the flexibility to go wireless.
I wish a company would create a PCVR headset that also has hardware to work along side your pc helping in performance
Fr, have the convenience of standalone but have increased power when tethered
That isn't really possible with the way 3D rendering works. I mean, that's basically what we already have with a quest 2/3 where you can play games stand alone then tether to the PC and have your pc run the game. What you are describing isn't possible without using what we already have in terms of tethering because having the headset do 10% of calculations then sending data to PC to do 90% of calculations would be slower than normal tethering due to data transfer rates.
So streaming VR game from your PC aka SteamVR via Virtual Desktop (like Quest)
@LM-cc7qz we have things quite similar for gaming laptops with egpus. have the standard performance and get it a big buff when a beefier gpu gets connected.
out of the possibility for this generation i think but the technology isn't inconceivable
I think it's this one. Just because it's standalone doesn't mean there won't be a way to connect it to a PC and stream games from it.
If Valve actually makes a headset that is VR Standalone that can support eye tracking to improve performance, and offer you the opportunity to do anything you want like the SteamDeck does. Meta is in trouble!..
The only issue I see is the price for some people who want to start VR. Maybe lite and Pro versions of the headset to avoid this?
yeah, like Vision Pro
i think valve learnt their lesson from the steam machines, and realise that they cant be making multiple versions. If anything it will maybe have versions like the steamdeck, with more of less internal storage built in. other than that it just wont work to have a "lite" version, because the only way to make it cheaper is to remove features, and you cant remove eye tracking and expect it to still work at all because it will need foveated rendering to be practical at all.
@@ge2719 Deckard stand-alone vs Deckard headset that requires a PC?
Meta won't be in trouble, they have a library of hundreds of games, x86 architecture would need either heavy optimization for pcvr titles one by one or developing from scratch. Only titles that could be ported fast are ones that have both PCVR and Quest versions
I’m not so sure the performance scales as easily as 5x with the addition of foveated rendering. Remember the steam deck chip only has to drive a 1280x800 display, whereas with a full on VR display that has many times higher resolution than that.. with the added requirement of high refresh rate for reduced motion sickness. It’s still difficult to render all of that. Foveated rendering certainly helps, but it’s not the only thing that will help solve this problem.
it definitely is 80% less pixels in terms of raw fragment shader invocations, but yea theres a lot more happening than just fragment count
It's hard to believe that they'll use the same chip
I actually appreciate the fact they aren't rushing out headsets every year like all the other VR companies and instead taking their time to build noticeably improved products. I didn't get an Index because of my wider than average PD but I will almost certainly opt for Valve's next release if they resolve this and have some quality lenses.
I had an insider source slip a few details to me about it. Pancake lenses, they're working with AMD to make a next generation version of the deck SOC with newer graphics, hybridized design for both PC and standalone, and more, but mostly it just confirmed a lot of what we're already speculating. My guy works as a prototyping partner of some kind and says he's already had an engineering/validation sample on his desk. Told me to expect a soft goal for announcement in 2024 but it's valve so they wouldn't hesitate delays if it's not up to their standards yet. Basically their goal seems to be to regain the crown for the best, next generation, no compromises system for VR/PCVR/XR.
I sold my index because i thought it would be announced soon. I wanted to get ahead of the wave of mass selling of used units. 2024? I guess I'll buy a used quest 2 in the mean time.
Did they say anything about a potential price point? That seems to me like the biggest unknown as of right now. I’ve seen people predict the $400-$500 range, all the way up to over $1000+
@@awsome14619 oof
@@mikevanderlinde1895 The index was $1k because it was for enthusiast. This new headset might be able to do stand alone, so it's both a steam deck and VR headset. It might be 1k as it is filling that market as well. The SD was able to be sold for a loss as they make us the cost in game sales. I don't see people buying a ton of more games for the Deckard
@@awsome14619 good point, but I feel like with stand-alone being more mainstream, and the fact that you’d most likely only be able to buy games through steam on the deckard, what you said about the “sold at a loss which would be recouped with game sales” thing might apply to the deckard as well. I’m not sure though, a $1000 price tag really wouldn’t surprise me.
An impressive FOV and a comfortable experience to go along with everything mentioned in the video would more than it for sell me.
I'm literally about to Blow up in Hype I Just Need It!!!! my quest 2 Has too many issues And Bugs
The index has an impressive FOV for its time. It was one of their selling points. They will do the same with the deckard
I really hope so. Q2 feels like you're looking through a periscope.
I pray that this headset wont be standalone, I want something to replace my index and I hope its better that even what the index can do
valve off all company will never left out their base customer, PCMR. deckard will have pcvr for sure.
Man I was just about to buy the Index but now I'm gonna have to wait
If they somehow manage to literally be ahead of the game AGAIN, and actually make this a reality within the timefram of the Vision Pros release... i honestly might cry tears of joy... as dramatic as that may sound, it feels like my dream is getting closer and closer to reality, and Valve the beasts that they are, i swear i wouldn't know how to show my appreciation anymore without seeming like a total weirdo... hahaha but then again, its if they do it, which, when it comes to Valve... they give me hope... and not anything in this world had given me so much hope as them >.
Rip my wallet.
Literally the only fault that Valve has as a big company, is laziness or being slow.
But when they deliver, they DO deliver!
Meanwhile dumbass Meta getting sued literal billion of Euros/Dollars by Europe for violating European laws of Data Protection and Privacy.
Bro is simping on Valve 😂
Really really looking forward to this. I'm tired of Meta's bad firmware updates that have twice made it useless and I had to wait for them to push an update which is basically a lottery system.
Also the charging port melts
im honestly just wondering if i get an index or wait for the dekkard since ive been looking to upgrade from my rift s
I feel your pain.
i have a Rift S and Im gonna keep it for now
theres nothing good out right now worth buying
The index is old and still expensive
if there isnt a new PCVR headset coming from oculus or valve im not buying anything else
wait for the Deckard It's Gonna Be good Because Valve Has been Working On it for A Long Time
Sounds good, BUT I really hope there is a display port for true PCVR. Mainly for driving and flight sim games. I thought about the pimax crystal because of this feature but I would rather my next headset come from VALVE.
Pffftt you think valve would ever skip out on tethered functionality? That would be an insane oversight
@@fckcoleslaw8533 No, but I am not going to assume anything.
@@fckcoleslaw8533 its not necessarily down to them, the amd chipset just doesnt have that sort of functionality of haveing a pc thats able to communicate with another c that way over a wire, and send tracking data to the pc, while the pc send video/audio etc... Thats why the oculus method uses usb and not a display port, because even if the hardware could communicate between two computers, a display port cant take tracking data. Which is also why the index has a proprietary cable thats connected to display port, usb and power.
So they would basically need to have the deckard be a desktop pcvr headset that can take a wire direct to a pc, and then also include all of the standalone headset wiring, and you can somehow flip it between them.
Thats just not going to be practical. and so the best option is wireless. And fortunately with eye tracking that means the data being sent first only need to e the part your looking at, and the rest can be highly compressed.
So the headset has the potential to make wireless pcvr actually be a clean experience.
@@ge2719 yeah that makes sense, thanks for clarifying
@@ge2719 Yet I doubt it. Because of the lag. Tbf, wireless is more comfortable, but it has its downsides, which I doubt can be resolved. I expect a sacrifice for convenience.
Great video! I normally find these types of hardware leak speculation videos a bit dry but you made this so informative and exciting. Very cool insight into what applications we could dream of being implemented
I really only use my VR-setups to play VRChat, so I hope it won't be standalone only, since unless it has more than 24GB of VRAM and 64GB or RAM it will be a downgrade and even those struggle in certain lobbies. And I hope it will keep being compatible with lighthouses as well, since the inside out tracking of the Quest 2 still looses tracking far too often when behind the player or when grabbing irl objects.
I'm sorry, but foveated rendering might get you two times the performance at best, much less 5 times, you should put down whatever you've smoking. Foveated rendering is awesome and is certainly the future of VR, but it's not some magic bullet. It's been already been done and the performance gains are pretty well established.
According to sony the psvr2's foveated rendering is a 4x performance boost. So if you have some serious eye tracking hardware and software then a 5x boost is possible.
@@Dawooded Unfortunately that's complete BS spin. That claim is from a completely cpu limited issue. Gpu frame time went from 14.3ms to 12.5ms,not exactly 4x😂
@@AdamBrackney Ok, we'll see when the darn thing comes out. No use speculating on performance of hardware that doesn't exist.
What do you all think about the Deckard?
Cain,Deckard Cain
HaS me think "stay a while and listen"
gimme
I've loved the idea of it ever since I heard about it, but it's not going to stop me buying a Quest 3. The Deckard is likely still years away from release.
sorry but why the appel vr headset?
The Quest’s head tracking is great, but the hand controller tracking is limited to being in sight of the headset. It’s not too bad, but the Index’s controller tracking is superb and it would be hard to go back. I’d be more than happy to have a device tethered to my gaming PC and lighthouses just so long as it’s wireless like the old Vive (with the wireless kit).
The inside out tracking has me scared. hope it' still as good as the index's tracking with the bay stations.
Valve helped put with the HP headset, it uses the same audio set up as the Index I think. I wouldn't be too surprised uf they got to learn some things with the tracking, if they got to help with the overall design and not just a couple specific parts.
How do you get an online store on youtube?
ye. big question is when? could be still 2 years away, which is to long for me to wait. and since the index isnt worth its asking price anymore i have to look elsewhere
idk how to feel if it really is a standalone device. it might be interesting in the future but as it stands rn PCVR is still king. rn standalone vr headsets are just a cheap way to get people into vr before they graduate to using PCVR. Inside out tracking is also still not as great compared to light house based tracking. i own a rift s, and after trying a mate's index i really cannot be content with inside out tracking anymore, it's got so many downsides.
This ^ If I wanted inside out tracking I would just buy a Quest 2 or 3. I use trackers though and I don't want to mix the two.
everybody thinks it's going to be a competitor with the 3, but imo it wont even be released till 2024 or later, just because we know its being worked on doesnt mean it'll be ready for sales by the time the 3 is out. i bet it'll be insane and will definitely top the 3 and would be worth the wait so im just gonna save up and hopefully by the time its on sale ill have enough for a full decked out setup with accessories and such
more like Vision Pro competitor
i might get this, now. valve is a perfectionist, so i think they're gonna make this the best they possibly can
I'd settle for battery + processing happening outside a lighter, slimmer headset. Could be an armband-mounted processing unit or at the waist with the latter benefiting from some waist tracking.
I need passthrough, which is why i want the 3 but if this is announced and has full color passthrough with possible games, I'd wait but pass that, looks like I'm getting the Quest 3
Are they making it that you don't need a pc? Cuz my pc sucks.
The Deckard is getting my deckard
I really really hope that if it's standalone it can still be plugged into a PC. I'd love inside out tracking as I can't use base stations, but I still want to be able to hook up to a PC for the better picture quality that comes with hooking up to a pc.
I would be interested as long as you could still connect to a computer for better graphics and performance
Valve has been perfecting game streaming for (at least) the last decade. I wouldn't be surprised if Deckard is capable of streaming in full res off of a full fledged gaming PC. I think the APU will be always used for Sensor/signal processing, interface, ETC. Instead of your Gaming PC being the full brain of the HMD, Deckard will probably use it's own independent interface, even when streaming games. Its easy to see how the eye tracking features will help with performance on the APU; but imagine the boost a full fleged gaming PC will have with those features- or the ability to just turn off the rendering/performance features and just run the eye sensors for games like VRC. I suspect Valve probably wont say anything until the software and hardware are stitched seamlessly together like on the Deck.
Having more onboard hardware is great even if you intend to use it as a PCVR headset. That hardware can be used for all kinds of operartions that can enhance the experience. Things like full body trackers, other spacial compute applications, and other future breakthroughs on the software side all while the PC does most of the heavy lifting. Seems like a big win. I do wish they would have made one with onboard processing and one without though, but complicating your product stack and the costs of producing and developing two kinds of devices probably isn't worth it.
So do I wait for this or get the current index. I don't care about standalone I want the absolute best headset to pair with my RTX4090 PC and take full advantage of the power available
I don't mind them taking time, I'd love to see it arrive. Currently just started toying with a Quest2, but I would like to be able to have the option between stationary use (sims and particular games) and in a play area.
It better have Wide FOV & all the Goodies.
who needs to buy big TV when you have fucking custom size virtual screen
thats defo going on my wishlist
Inside out tracking is the future? Noooo! Say goodbye to the super fast and accurately tracked movements that base stations offer
My biggest concern would be storage available in the headset. Also, it would be amazing is you could upgrade the storage with something close to a ssd or a sdd to do so. I know these are high expectations, but if they are waiting this long to release it, I would like it to stand out from the other headsets out there.
Really hope we will be able to connect it with pc and deckard for extra performance
What about outside in tracking, I highly doubt that Valve would tell all their full body motion tracking users that they cant use this or rely on a 3rd party tool to sync it all up.
You will probably still be able to use your base stations, just that they will only be used for the trackers and maybe for the controllers when they are behind you.
Yes. This is what I'm worried about. I don't want to mix my base station playspace with inside out playspace. It's doesn't stay synced well according to people I know who use Quest and trackers.
Not on board with the $1000 + possible price tag. I can understand the effort put into this, sadly this will reach only a very specific group of people. I'll probably get it after the next version gets released (if I am lucky)
My only hope is a wireless mode (if possible), but at this point I'm really craving face and eye tracking being built in and am starting to consider those a mandate. So hope for wireless, but require face/eye tracking.
i ask myself, if i want to buy the Valve Index full kit for 600 Euro used, or wait until the second new VR Headset comes out.
i have a quest 2 and without foveated rendering i really see no reason to upgrade to a quest 3. i hope deckard will be more interesting.
Love your content man. Keep it up. You doing a great job!
Thank you 😁
If the deckard is stand alone with PCVR option (like the quest) it will be a day one buy for me.
What would you be playing standalone on x86 architecture? None Quest/Pico games would work. It would have PSVR2 size library (like 10 games) but with shitty standalone graphics.
@@avelkmsteam VR games
@@avelkm standalone half life alyx gonna be fire
@@adrenalinejunkie3828 I say nothing about high-end PCVR headset. I don't think that standalone on mobile x86 architecture is feasible as no current PCVR titles can ran on steamdeck hardware at 8 times more pixels then SteamDeck has. So you have to port EVERYTHING and heavily optimize for a new chipset. It would take years to have decent standalone x86 library. It's doable in principal but even if Deckard launches next year it would have less games then PSVR2 on start so it is NOT a competitor to ARM headsets in standalone space. High end PCVR as I said is another beast but much-much-much smaller market then standalone, for hardcore VR gamers only/
One interesting point is that the desktop that the Steam Deck uses called KDE Plasma and its GUI toolkit for apps already supports transparency and blurring. It is now only used to show more of your wallpaper through the apps, but I can imagine Valve using that for spacial computing where they could switch out the wallpaper background of a normal desktop with the camera passthrough. Valve already has experience with building their own Wayland compositor through Gamescope so they might extend Gamescope with spacial computing functionality or make a new compositor with Gamescope nested inside, because you can already run Gamescope inside of other compositors like the Plasma desktop.
so then does this mean you could use it for pcvr if you wanted but what im most exited about is that i can finally upgrade my quest 2 to a index cause the price will drop alot
I think what might be overlooked is the fact that as a PCVR company Valve is likely to give the headset hybrid capabilities. I don't see why it would be either or with tracking. Stand alone by default but base station capable also. Second, better than a virtual steam deck experience would be a hybrid unit where a PC does most of the CPU work and the headset processes the graphics making much higher fidelity VR available for even non VR capable devices that is still superior to stand alone gaming as well. Those are my wishkiat items at least. With all that has been accomplished via Virtual Desktop with the Quest as an android device, imagine what Valve can do with t a VR headset running a true custom OS. Meta will never catch up if Valve innovates outside of the box.
Better yet, it may have a cheaper PC variant with the stand alone steam deck inspired processing unit being an optional purchas. Unnecessary for many if not most OCVR users but a game enabler for so many others. In any case it should be great. Let's hope they learned how to insure better quality and durability from the Index experience.
As an index owner I am used to being content with what I have. The delayed announcement gives me a chance to be in a position to purchase when it is announced rather than having to I wish list it like I would today.
An important question. Will the index still be available along side this release? Or should I get it first then get the Deckard later?
Don't worry, a lot of used index's will be put on sale online when it comes out lol
@@Evangeder then yeah I guess I should get it soon. I'm hoping to get my computer, in general. I'm having a friend build me one. It's pretty expensive. More than the headset Itself. So maybe I should be dumb and buy it first. Then get my pc.
5:12 "much like" Guess which one has more sideloading capabilities :)
Standalone is the future. Say good bye to all the good visually appealing vr games.
Well made very accurate gg 👏
I just hope it will do for VR what the Deck did for gaming in general, which is advancing Linux support enormously in one big leap. Linux VR is sorely lacking at the moment, this could change that dramatically.
i would not mind that if and only if it doesnt make playing vr worse
One of my Index's lighthouses died after a year... :(
Spacial computing does not, infact mean playing the entirety of your staam library in vr lol. If the computing part ist running the virtual screens on the same version of steam os they have for something like the steam deck, then vr games will probably have specific ports or graphivs settings for the deckard, and jot every game will be compatible performance-wise, not to mention controller compatibility
Valve could've had a few issues in the past sure, but it's Valve. They figure it out soley because they know their good products will rock the market time and time again.
Yes i understand the route they go, BUT:
Why not also offer just a new workhorse ? A headset like the Index, but with more resolution, and wireless of course, and keeping the lighthouse-tracking. That would be not a high development-effort and would make a lot of people very happy. I only assume that it will be too late to do that, and so we'll have to wait for something that spends too much in having high compute-power inside the headset, but will be used only for transferring PC-VR to that device anyway.
I'm getting this even if it's 2k
Well... this aged well
I’m hyped af now I just hope they keep in low cost though and they take time to get it right
Would be cool if they had something like VorpX built into it for flat steam games
one of the biggest limtations to VR use is the comfort factor - I would prefer the weight as mush as possible taken off the face and head, this still looks like it will be heavy.
will steam make it so it ships out to countries outside of Eu and America like Australia and Norway
The biggest issue with the Index, is the weight, and the heat.
If they could just keep all the other stuff the same, and reduce these two things by half, they would have a huge boom in sales.
I really do hope they dont ditch the hand tracking. Although an upside to them ditching it would be for it to be maybe a bit more affordable for the average vr player.
My son is wanting the deckard so bad. Its frustrating Valve doesnt at least do a pre-order option so we don't end up buying a quest 3 this week. We could wait a few months knowing the deckard is coming by christmas. But the no pre-order option leaves us totally hanging. Private company or not, give us release dates already. Thanks for the video, another teaser damnit. lol
This sounds like a dream come true.
I don't think I'm alone with playing quest2 because it's wireless and therefore
easier to find a somewhat roomy area in your apartment without all the fuzz,
but using steam link because the games in the meta store are pricey as f**k.
Imagine beeing able to use standalone to find a roomy place and still enjoy a big game library!
I cross my fingers and hope.
Ok, but will it have eye and/or face tracking?
Eye tracking yes, face tracking nothyis known
If it is standalone I hope it can still work with my desktop pc
Yes and hopefully it uses a display port and not USB c like the quest
I never bought a Steam Deck, even though I love steam and people kept asking if I wanted one, but working from home I didn't see a huge need to take steam games off my PC. BUT... let me put those same steam games directly into my VR headset, and yeah, that is something I would definitely buy.
was the steamdeck just the start of portable tech?
Yes
Also to agree with similar sentiments below, looks like I’m getting a quest 3 or a bigscreen hmd. Seeing as valve won’t won’t release even a whisper of a rumor of their products before the Q3 releases
I can't wait. This will be the single best tech of the last 10 years.
Looking forward to jump in the VR for the first time, waiting for deckard to release xD Can't wait to explore rp_downtown with it.
there is one thing and one thing only I hope valve copies from ocu- oh right, "Meta" (oculus was such a better name) is the pro controllers, having the tracking cameras built into the controller itself fixed ALL the issues with inside out tracking and it's something everyone will need if they don't want to be looking at their hands 24/7 to maintain full tracking.
That would be nice, but the controller patents have a tracking ring.
It will take years for Valve Deckard to come out 😢
They could knock it out of the park if they made the HMD "just" a dumb HMD with all the latest tech (wifi, eyetracking pancake-lenses, etc.), and then made the Deck 2 as a wearable compute-unit/puck that could quadruple-duty as a handheld, battery, pancake-in-vr-controller and vr-sim-controller. It would basically create 3 products for the price of one: The Deck 2, The HMD that can be used for pcvr, and the combined Deckard standalone. It would also allow them to move a lot of weight away from the head, and focus on performance in a normal square form-factor, without having to cram it into a small curved HMD.
Honestly I would love my quest more if there was a way to bypass the battery when using on pcvr. It just gets really annoying when I forget to plug it in and it’s basically dead and I can barely play a pcvr game
my exp with dynamic resolution on regular displays is its responsible for giving me the worst migraine ive had in my life
im highly skeptical of foveated rendering in VR because eye saccades are extremely fast, so much that a saccade affects your perception of time, 120hz would be minimum, its immensely faster than any sort of head movement, that mixed with variable depth could brutalize your eyes with any sort of framerate drop
Bro playing 2D steam games trough the Deckard would be game changing. I never even considered that.
Watched some leaked patents explained by SadlyItsBradley, and by the looks of it, I think they are also trying to make the tracking be lighthouse independent, don't take my word for granted, but I am doing educated guesses based on the specs, they have some angle sensitive photo diodes, and if I am correct, those could track without any lighthouse and just using a simple light in your room.
Should I wait or get the Quest 3?
The Quest 3 its already being made by now in factories ... this Valve Deckard its still at the speculation stage if it even exists
Congrats on 10k! 🎉
Thank you!!
They could do it like this it would be standalone like the quest but with a Steam Deck like library but with Steam VR only games and Valve vr games that would be cool also the software is gonna be awesome
i kinda wish valve would stay in the pcvr space and make a super high end high rez pcvr headset
What do you think this is? It'll still support wireless VR to a desktop, even if it functions like a PC on its own. Like a steam deck playing a game from your desktop, it doesn't need to be one or the other. Plus being attached to a wire can be a pretty big deal breaker for some, they would already need a pretty solid processor to handle that to begin with
Yeah Dynamic Foveated rendering doesn't give you 5 times the performance.50% is even pushing it. Realistically you can expect to get 20%
Mixed feelings on the Deckard
If the index becomes 650$ & Deckard takes the 1000$ spot, Vr will become the next Tv