You can reduce the Heliod/Ballista combo by 2 if Shanna is in play without summoning sickness, just play Heliod (3) & Ballista for 1 (2) & attack w Shanna, gain life & trigger Heliod to put a +1/+1 counter on Ballista then give it lifelink (2) and win for a total of 7 mana
Personally I think winconless stax might be the best way for the deck. I just really don't like the turns strategy; I also don't really like winconless stax but I whole heartedly think it's better than turns as turns just doesn't have a good average card quality.
Even though I'm not a cEDH player, I love your videos! While certainly not cEDH-level in terms of power, Horizon Chimaera and Drogskol Reaver make you draw your whole deck. This works with ThOracle, of course. I found this out by accident while playing online. Both cards rank highly on Shanna's EDHREC page; I wonder if other folks realize that you might accidentally deck yourself with these to cards!
Cool too see that there is value even for people here that dont play cEDH. Drogskol Reaver and Horizon Chimaera are not great correct. But it is a solid casual 2 card combo.
I wouldn’t normally suggest this combo but Scout’s Warning + Felidar Sovereign works great in this deck. You’ll naturally gain a lot of life with the deck and can catch your opponents by surprise.
Could Aetherflux Reservoir be a good option for this deck? (Maybe instead of the Thassa's Oracle in the list you presented...) It synergizes well with the commander and can be a win condition combined with the Isochron Scepter combo (which grants unlimited casted spells)
@@revelmonger What? I'm talking about the usual Dramatic Reversal combo (with two mana rocks and/or dorks). Since the ability of Isochron Scepter let you cast the copy of the spell, Aetherflux Reservoir triggers its ability and you will gain an unlimited amount of life (and therefore pew pew 50 damage on the face)
Hey Mons, I’ve been thinking about this Commander ever since it got spoiled. The biggest issue is how does this deck win? I came up with a few ideas, which are a little clunky, but utilizes her triggered ability as a win condition: Cards for combo: [[Soul Warden]] + [[Emiel the Blessed]] + [[Derevi, Empyrial Tactician]] + [[Shimmer Myr]] + [[Walking Ballista]] + [[Gaea's Cradle]] (or permanent that taps for 4 or more mana) 1. Life gain effect with ETB creature in play ([[Soul Warden]], [[Soul's Attendant]], etc.). 2. [[Emiel the Blessed]] + [[Derevi, Empyrial Tactician]] + Permanent that taps for 4 or more 3. [[Shanna, Purifying Blade]] trigger at the beginning of the end-step, use Emiel to make infinite mana and draw your deck. 4. Still on end-step, flash [[Shimmer Myr]], then flash in [[Walking Ballista]]. Kill table. --- Card for combo: [[Spike Feeder]] + [[Heliod, Sun-Crowned]] + [[Accomplished Alchemist]] +[[Shimmer Myr]] + [[Walking Ballista]] 1. [[Spike Feeder]] + [[Heliod, Sun-Crowned]] make infinite LIFE. 2. On Shanna end-step trigger, tap [[Accomplished Alchemist]] a lot of mana. 3. Still on end-step, flash [[Shimmer Myr]], then flash in [[Walking Ballista]], and kill all opponents. --- [[Heliod, Sun-Crowned]] + [[Walking Ballista]] = Infinite Damage [[Heliod, Sun-Crowned]] + [[Triskelion]] = Infinite Damage --- 1. Life gain effect with ETB creature (Soul Warden, Soul's Attendant, etc.) 2. Emiel + Peregrine Drake + 5 lands = infinite mana 3. Shanna trigger at the beginning of the end-step, use Emiel to make infinite mana and draw your deck. 4. Still on end-step, flash Shimmer Myr, then flash in Walking Ballista. Kill table. --- Technically, you can also run [[Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage]] as an alternate [[Shimmer Myr]], but may not be good enough in the 99. Unique effects: [[Blind Obedience]]: Extort to gain up to 3 life, and end-step pay 3, draw 3 [[Wilderness Reclamation]]: Stack triggers with Shanna's triggering first. Pay all your mana in your lands, then let [[Wilderness Reclamation]] resolve and untap your lands
Yeah there are options. I don't like a few of these. Some of your examples demand a lot of cards. Or more then I want it to be. I am also not so sold on the infinite mana part. Normally you would win. But there are situations where you don't win. I mean the commander cant win from infinite mana.
@@cedhtv Yeah, it makes me sad that it's not a post-combat main phase trigger. So it's really hard to work with. I'm happy to hear your thoughts on this card as it has kept me up trying to figure it out. The biggest issue is I always end up asking myself... why not "TnT" or "Derevi", or even Bruse/Thrasios when working on this Commander.
So many headaches trying to build this. It's so strong up front but winning... You've probably got thr right idea going the turns route. I was going to go with Mystic Sancruary turns loops with a RoL shell but that damn "endstep" draw kills that. Need to test comboless stax still, but right now I've found..."Simic Sacred Guide Control" to be the best fit. Drawing 3-5 cards on your endstep, ready to interact with a clean wincon. Obviously losing white is big but I've found it to be her best strategy so far.
@@cedhtv Oh for sure i've just found clunky wincons to be such a massive roadblock in winning. Turns is probably the way to go though! Such a shame Mystic Sanctuary loops don't really work here. Definetly need to give her a shot in that shell and a hard hatebear beatdown shell.
Appreciate the video! Just wanted to mention the sort of raspy flute sound happening in the music in the background sounded more like a microphone issue during the video, it was a little distracting from the content. Otherwise take my like and have a nice day!
Hey mons I've been really trying to make a bant list and running into the same problem. Win cons are hard to come by. Looked into thrasios Ardenn, thrasios yosimaru, and even thrasios ishai. Each win con seems to be finale of devastation or endurance loops which can be rather tricky. Like the video of the different options
When you have access to green, recursion are also "pseudo" extra turns. Specially the cheap ones, Noxious Revival, Reclain a crop rotation to a Mystic Sanctuary....
@@cedhtv right? Your not even on consultation anyway. You’re prob running thrasios and kinnan in the 99. Behind Lavinia or d silence (or emeria) you’ll def be able to hold off these gryxis turbo decks. Similar to like a dawnwaker build but more life gain synergy? I don’t see this ever being better than something like derevi unless you’re doing something derevi cannot.
I really don't like the turns strategy. It's very mana intensive because of the X mana you need for the draw. Edric works because it a run away engine and requires no mana to draw. Also you get the cards immediately, getting the cards in the end step sucks because that delays you a whole turn, even if you have a turn spell on hand you cant use any fast mana from the draw. Imo this means it very prone to whiffing. Ballista/heliod need 9 mana but the turns strategy is going to need 8 each turn minimum with high chance of whiffing. Also in Bant the tutorability of ballalista/heliod is going to be that it is very consistent. All this said the best strategy is to play thrasios/Tymna instead which does everything this commander does but more.
The mana required to cast an extra turn spell and still have mana left over to pay into the commander’s ability in the end step has me worried. That seems like a lot to ask from an already mana-hungry strategy
@@cedhtv Oh wow, I did not expect a response. Thank you. I remember long ago I had the old mono black braids as a commander but found out she was banned. Sad days but now the return.
You can reduce the Heliod/Ballista combo by 2 if Shanna is in play without summoning sickness, just play Heliod (3) & Ballista for 1 (2) & attack w Shanna, gain life & trigger Heliod to put a +1/+1 counter on Ballista then give it lifelink (2) and win for a total of 7 mana
Personally I think winconless stax might be the best way for the deck. I just really don't like the turns strategy; I also don't really like winconless stax but I whole heartedly think it's better than turns as turns just doesn't have a good average card quality.
Feels like this commander makes approach of the second sun almost possible for cedh. Esp if you are going for extra turns and ramp.
You know maybe honestly.
Even though I'm not a cEDH player, I love your videos!
While certainly not cEDH-level in terms of power, Horizon Chimaera and Drogskol Reaver make you draw your whole deck. This works with ThOracle, of course.
I found this out by accident while playing online. Both cards rank highly on Shanna's EDHREC page; I wonder if other folks realize that you might accidentally deck yourself with these to cards!
Cool too see that there is value even for people here that dont play cEDH. Drogskol Reaver and Horizon Chimaera are not great correct. But it is a solid casual 2 card combo.
It's not a accident if I do it on purpose 😏😈. "You're about to win on your turn? No. I see myself out by drawing my whole deck"
This commander is super cool and the colors are nice variety from the grixis stuff.
YES! We need more options that isent grix.
I wouldn’t normally suggest this combo but Scout’s Warning + Felidar Sovereign works great in this deck. You’ll naturally gain a lot of life with the deck and can catch your opponents by surprise.
Could Aetherflux Reservoir be a good option for this deck? (Maybe instead of the Thassa's Oracle in the list you presented...)
It synergizes well with the commander and can be a win condition combined with the Isochron Scepter combo (which grants unlimited casted spells)
If only there was a ritual that worked with isochron scepter and also gained life.
@@revelmonger What? I'm talking about the usual Dramatic Reversal combo (with two mana rocks and/or dorks).
Since the ability of Isochron Scepter let you cast the copy of the spell, Aetherflux Reservoir triggers its ability and you will gain an unlimited amount of life (and therefore pew pew 50 damage on the face)
Hey Mons,
I’ve been thinking about this Commander ever since it got spoiled. The biggest issue is how does this deck win?
I came up with a few ideas, which are a little clunky, but utilizes her triggered ability as a win condition:
Cards for combo:
[[Soul Warden]] + [[Emiel the Blessed]] + [[Derevi, Empyrial Tactician]] + [[Shimmer Myr]] + [[Walking Ballista]] + [[Gaea's Cradle]] (or permanent that taps for 4 or more mana)
1. Life gain effect with ETB creature in play ([[Soul Warden]], [[Soul's Attendant]], etc.).
2. [[Emiel the Blessed]] + [[Derevi, Empyrial Tactician]] + Permanent that taps for 4 or more
3. [[Shanna, Purifying Blade]] trigger at the beginning of the end-step, use Emiel to make infinite mana and draw your deck.
4. Still on end-step, flash [[Shimmer Myr]], then flash in [[Walking Ballista]]. Kill table.
---
Card for combo: [[Spike Feeder]] + [[Heliod, Sun-Crowned]] + [[Accomplished Alchemist]] +[[Shimmer Myr]] + [[Walking Ballista]]
1. [[Spike Feeder]] + [[Heliod, Sun-Crowned]] make infinite LIFE.
2. On Shanna end-step trigger, tap [[Accomplished Alchemist]] a lot of mana.
3. Still on end-step, flash [[Shimmer Myr]], then flash in [[Walking Ballista]], and kill all opponents.
---
[[Heliod, Sun-Crowned]] + [[Walking Ballista]] = Infinite Damage
[[Heliod, Sun-Crowned]] + [[Triskelion]] = Infinite Damage
---
1. Life gain effect with ETB creature (Soul Warden, Soul's Attendant, etc.)
2. Emiel + Peregrine Drake + 5 lands = infinite mana
3. Shanna trigger at the beginning of the end-step, use Emiel to make infinite mana and draw your deck.
4. Still on end-step, flash Shimmer Myr, then flash in Walking Ballista. Kill table.
---
Technically, you can also run [[Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage]] as an alternate [[Shimmer Myr]], but may not be good enough in the 99.
Unique effects:
[[Blind Obedience]]: Extort to gain up to 3 life, and end-step pay 3, draw 3
[[Wilderness Reclamation]]: Stack triggers with Shanna's triggering first. Pay all your mana in your lands, then let [[Wilderness Reclamation]] resolve and untap your lands
Yeah there are options. I don't like a few of these. Some of your examples demand a lot of cards. Or more then I want it to be. I am also not so sold on the infinite mana part. Normally you would win. But there are situations where you don't win. I mean the commander cant win from infinite mana.
@@cedhtv Yeah, it makes me sad that it's not a post-combat main phase trigger. So it's really hard to work with. I'm happy to hear your thoughts on this card as it has kept me up trying to figure it out. The biggest issue is I always end up asking myself... why not "TnT" or "Derevi", or even Bruse/Thrasios when working on this Commander.
Best way to make this deck win is Heliod ballista, the rest can be tutors ramp and counter spells
I will agree. I think the turns strats is just a bit behind heliod balista tho.
So many headaches trying to build this. It's so strong up front but winning...
You've probably got thr right idea going the turns route. I was going to go with Mystic Sancruary turns loops with a RoL shell but that damn "endstep" draw kills that.
Need to test comboless stax still, but right now I've found..."Simic Sacred Guide Control" to be the best fit.
Drawing 3-5 cards on your endstep, ready to interact with a clean wincon. Obviously losing white is big but I've found it to be her best strategy so far.
I dont like the part where you lose white there. But yes you can go for that.
@@cedhtv Oh for sure i've just found clunky wincons to be such a massive roadblock in winning.
Turns is probably the way to go though! Such a shame Mystic Sanctuary loops don't really work here. Definetly need to give her a shot in that shell and a hard hatebear beatdown shell.
Appreciate the video! Just wanted to mention the sort of raspy flute sound happening in the music in the background sounded more like a microphone issue during the video, it was a little distracting from the content. Otherwise take my like and have a nice day!
Hey mons I've been really trying to make a bant list and running into the same problem. Win cons are hard to come by. Looked into thrasios Ardenn, thrasios yosimaru, and even thrasios ishai. Each win con seems to be finale of devastation or endurance loops which can be rather tricky. Like the video of the different options
The thing there is that you first gain infinite mana and draw your deck. Finally of devastation is just the finisher. I wont work here.
When you have access to green, recursion are also "pseudo" extra turns. Specially the cheap ones, Noxious Revival, Reclain a crop rotation to a Mystic Sanctuary....
Creature combos under deafening silence sounds so nice to me.
It is a great spot to be in honestly.
@@cedhtv right? Your not even on consultation anyway. You’re prob running thrasios and kinnan in the 99. Behind Lavinia or d silence (or emeria) you’ll def be able to hold off these gryxis turbo decks. Similar to like a dawnwaker build but more life gain synergy? I don’t see this ever being better than something like derevi unless you’re doing something derevi cannot.
Well you can build this deck in some different ways for sure. Including what you more or less needs for the meta game your in.
Thank you.
I really don't like the turns strategy. It's very mana intensive because of the X mana you need for the draw. Edric works because it a run away engine and requires no mana to draw. Also you get the cards immediately, getting the cards in the end step sucks because that delays you a whole turn, even if you have a turn spell on hand you cant use any fast mana from the draw. Imo this means it very prone to whiffing. Ballista/heliod need 9 mana but the turns strategy is going to need 8 each turn minimum with high chance of whiffing. Also in Bant the tutorability of ballalista/heliod is going to be that it is very consistent. All this said the best strategy is to play thrasios/Tymna instead which does everything this commander does but more.
You have some wherry good points.
The mana required to cast an extra turn spell and still have mana left over to pay into the commander’s ability in the end step has me worried. That seems like a lot to ask from an already mana-hungry strategy
First and glad to be here! Keep it up!
This looks fun but not really strong
It is not the best deck in the world. Like it works. It is doing cEDH stuff. But yes not to the same power.
But Mons, what about Braaaaaids. I asked many times for Braids but she is banned but now there another...whahahahahaha
Up comming. There are soo many commanders to talk about these days. Hard to catch up. But she is on my mind. Dont worry.
@@cedhtv Oh wow, I did not expect a response. Thank you. I remember long ago I had the old mono black braids as a commander but found out she was banned. Sad days but now the return.
Go back to basics and use the cephalid kor combo