Lol. Do you get those too? I wonder if Spike Feeders and Lab Maniacs get it too. "My cedh deck wins on turn 0 as a pregame effect, and can't be countered."
@@CommanderReplay i mean there is quite the difference between compact/easily tutorable win conditions, backed up by interaction and well... vultron, just as an example, you run 16 or so voltron cards, that do very little to nothing outside of pumping your dude(with some exceptions). I don't know why not to call it "just" high power? like it definetely is a *very* powerful deck, but i don't see it doing very well in an established cEDH meta. "not cEDH" does not mean not strong. It just is, that there is a certain amount of power/efficiency expected. Though i don't have a problem with that title, as "near cEDH" does mean "not cEDH, but very powerful deck that can sit with cEDH and win every once in a while", which i can definetely see this deck doing. i mean i'm sure there are quite a bit of people you could find to play cEDH to prove me wrong, i would actually very enjoy to see that. (and what vultron commander the best is)
Commander Replay - I’ve never labelled a video as cEDH because I know it’ll attract all the naysayers. Shouldn’t let that stop me though because you’re going to piss at least one person off no matter what you do. Labelling a really weak deck as cEDH seems like it’d be a good April fools joke.
I've played a bunch of different kinds of voltron commanders and I have to say bant is definitely the best and most efficient color pair for voltron as these specific color help shore up some of the weaknesses of the strategy
@@Station9.75 Actually, you'd be surprised. Not in regards to the breaking in aspect but what he could do is get in contact with them and ask if they'd want him as a guest. It is a longshot no question about it but... As long as he's able to offer some particular charismatic side or achievement in MTG, he'd definitely have a shot at it. Like trying to organize a get together on the command zone where everyone is a MTG RUclips content creator.
He is truly a perfect person to put on the Command Zone. He plays Boros with the skill of nobody else, and is also a voltron fanatic. He could really show those styles of play to the larger community, and maybe help change some people’s opinion’s on them.
Commander Replay I mean he’s also afraid because its me a guy who offer gold in one hand but a knife in the other and I always add loop holes to my deals so I always honor them well also being able to turn without out a worry
I think I nailed down the Rafiq commander deck. And the trick is run jankier draft chaft cards- like darksteel axe and other varients like. Start game aggressive or die trying! Lol one of my fave decks thay works well.
I am fully on board with all the people who want you on Game Knights. You've become the voice of Voltron players, so it's only fair. And while I enjoy CZ's EDH content, their discussions and assumptions lack solid footing. As for cEDH, I'd look into Shu Yun for spellslinger Voltron, but who am I to tell you anything about Voltron =)
I'd say their assertation that voltron is not cEDH is fairly accurate. It's hard to gauge because voltron decks struggle in Focused metas that simply have a lot of Black players in them. Not that they're bad, rather that metas are a factor.
@@rosspenney5158 Not t1-t2 cEDH for sure, but to say they all fall into 5-6 category is just blasphemy. Absolutely agree that only your meta defines what's good and what's not going to work. In our meta we have a lot of black, but even there my troll creatureless Yargle was able to bargle. And Shu Yun/Feather can pull its weight in stronger metas. Sigarda isn't bothered with pacts and edicts at all.
PJ, when Azami countered your fire and ice, you should’ve cyclonic rifted either overloaded or for 2 mana targeting chrome mox because that would’ve taken the azami’s fifth mana to pay for the pact of negation trigger. Sad you didn’t see this:(
Your opponent misplayed pretty hard when you cast timetwister, opting to cast Nature's Claim in response to the Tithe triggers instead of earlier when TT was still on the stack.
@@CommanderReplay you gave the creature double strike and kept saying that he shouldn't get the second trigger even though mask of memory says damage dealt and since you did double strike that's twice the damage so double the trigger so you kept denying the trigger not that it mattered in this game. Definitely Op
Haven't seen "game two" yet, but man that deck rocks! Personally I would take out Forgotten Ancient (too slow) and Brave the Elements for more counterspells like Dispel and Negate or even Force of Will + Pact of Negation. I like more interaction in my decks, I hate feeling helpless when stuff is happening. Also, I usually disagree with some of the command zone podcasts but the "powerlevel scale" they did is somewhat accurate.I STILL think 1-10 scale leaves much to the interpretation, but they said that too in the episode, Voltron is a flawed strategy as is Aggro in general CEDH wise, too many variables in a style of play where consistancy is everything and most decks can either generate infinite value or infinite combat steps in turn 3/4 unoposed. Voltron is great in a 6-8 Meta and can hang out with the big leagues, even having good matchups against some CEDH decks, but having to untap with your commander gear him up/ pump him up to lethal damage (in sorcery speed most of the time) enter combat to take out a single opponent? Yeah, I'd rather combo everyone out with my Selvala on turn 3 or my Thrrassios/Tymna instant speed Flash + Hulk = I win the game.
Well, Forgotten Ancient and Brave the Elements certainly didn't work well together this game. Counterspells are usually good, but a one-mana protection spell is sometimes cheaper than the next best counter and doubles as evasion. But there are only 4 white creatures in the 99 and no auras or equipment that give shroud or protection from white, so this is the wrong one. If it had been Emerge Unscathed or Gods Willing, it could have saved the Ancient. And if the Ancient survived one turn cycle, it could have transferred enough counters to Rafiq to make him lethal even with no other power buffs.
Hey man can you make decks with cards that are more reflective of the general, rather than decks with just straight up good cards? I've noticed that those A+++ auto include cards, you put in all your decks, which I understand but it just feels like i'm watching the same gameplay when they all play manacrypt, smothering tithe, cyclonic rift, teferis protection ect.
have you ever seem a mtggoldfish episode when they try to play with cEDH decks? they always fail to play well, this do not prove at all that voltron is that strong, if you play against your patrons that are not used to cEDH this proves that you may play better than them at best.
COMPETITIVE GOAT TRIBAL. Actually i was fooling around with a "competitive" angels build last night. Its not super competitive, but I got a turn 3 chancellor of the annex into play and brought it back a few times until it finally got exiled. Theres some reasonably powerful stuff to do in reanimator.
So since we are using their grading system you also need to use their criteria. Correct me if I am wrong but for this to be a 9 or a 10 you must consistently threaten the win at turn 2-6...I would say that with some luck turn 6 is very possible after looking through the deck list however I will say that I would 100% call this an 8 based on their criteria. Voltron is always going to be less powerful because the win condition is fragile. Against 10's yes, it does "suck" however in this game with 8s and maybe 9s it looked sweet. It has its place and cEDH is not where that place is until wizards does something to assist it. I know you are saying that this is not cEDH, but rather near it and that I would agree with, but command zone defined cEDH as 9 and 10 thus making this an 8
I will happily take my 8, maybe 8.5. I retooled this list a little after the video and instead of armageddon Ive gone for full spell lock with Terferi KNowedlge pool, rule of law, and defeaning silence. I don't necessarily need to win on turn 6, but I need to lock the board out in a meaningful and prevent everyone else from winning by turn 6. Great comment though, I appreciate that you got what I was going for. Most people just freakout when i use the C word in a video. "competitive"
@@CommanderReplay command zone is maybe harder on voltron than they should be but it is definitely putting a handicap on yourself when you are talking about I want to be as powerful as possible. It also takes some amazing threat assessment to figure out which order to take people out in I think people also shy away from voltron because it tends to make people sit there for an hour after dying often (in paper that is).
@@aarong2606 Yeah that is a concern with one player dying at time. But if you play a lockout strategy, and it resolves, then it actually doesn't take too much longer. If people can't cast 10 spells in a turn there turn gets much shorter. Maybe its a cause I play A LOT of commander, but to me the threat assessment portion seems fine...been doing it for years with boros. Try to kill the player thats ahead or gonna win on the next turn whenever possible, and leave the players who are behind for last...its an oversimplification, but it works. I mentioned this on twitter. I think the problem is that their view is based heavily off people they play at GPs and things who are just playing a fun voltron deck. Its probably got a ton of equipment and not enough interaction for the JLK play style so of course he probably crushes them. But when you build one with the mindset of interacting with your opponents to stop them from winning, you are free to bash away for as long as it takes. I find that a lot of decks just crumble to winter orb and helm of possession. Nothing would make me happier than to use those against JLK.
@@CommanderReplay yeah I suppose but I think it would still prove hard if Josh pulled out his Teferi deck lol. I really do hope wizards balances voltron like maybe with a shared commander damage or something...as far as those stax pieces go they do indeed work well...I have a guy in my group who plays them but unfortunately seedborn muse is in every green deck I play hahaha
Lol yeah thats a real card right there. Teferi is pretty obnoxious, super difficult to interact with. Theres where customizing the removal is gonna be needed.
I wish they would merge MTGO and Arena. MTGO is hellish on my eyes, (legally blind) but I want to play real commander and not bullshit watered-down brawl.
They legit never said voltron was bad. They just said it wasn’t the best archetype. And it is a fact that there are 0 cEDH voltron decks. Chillax a bit
Sure, I’ll give you that! I think voltron, I’d built well, is certainly stronger than The Command Zone thinks it is (though it is very expensive to make a strong voltron deck), but a voltron deck will never be a cEDH deck or “near” cEDH deck.
Yeah my main goal here was to prove thats its more than an 8. Not that its taking down flash hulk. But I have taken down flash hulk, najeela, narset and friends with Akiri and Bruse. It doesn't work every time, but neither does most things that aren't flash hulk. Ive played in near cedh metas, they are about turn 6 wins very consistently. Again if you fire removal at them or lock them down, doesn't matter what turn you are trying win on. You just smash face while they can't play their combo. Having played a lot of decks similar to this, the big problem I noticed is actually green decks like gitrog and selvala. They put a lot of meat into play so you really need some good evasion and to not die on the backswing which can be difficult.
@@CommanderReplay then it isn't more than an 8. A 9 is the baseline level of cedh decks, stuff that is more fringe or less optimal generals for strategies like 5c food chain. 10 would be your mainstay cedh decks and arguably there should be a secret 11 for Tymna and Thrasios. 8 is the absolute best Windgrace, Muldrotha or Teysa Karlov they could ever be, which I'd still say is above this rafiq. There isn't much stopping repeated Fleshbag effects all 3 of those decks can muster. If the deck presented here is an 8, it's low in 8. If you play in a cedh POD and not a pod with 1 flash Hulk deck, you killing the flash Hulk player just enables another deck to win with less chance of being stopped. There's a reason Blood Pod is a deck filled with hate bears to turn off various wincons whilst smacking face instead of just going for the highest possible damage.
It doesn't matter what you turn you win, as long as no one else wins before you. You see how many counters spell went off this game? Flash hulk doesn't win in 4 turns with that going on either.
the other decks at the table were cEDH decks though Azami was High Tide, Vannifar was Pod Hulk, Najeela was one of the control variants that draws a lot of cards and then goes infinite combat steps. Also most cEDH games never finish early and tend to go on for quite a few turns.
@@CommanderReplay flash hulk has potential to win turn 1 in the first upkeep lol....and actually command zone literally used the turn that you win as the scale to measure hte "grading system" you can't say that you will make a deck "over an 8" in reference to their video and then ignore criteria.
They do a good job of keeping my aggro fires burning. Every time they say Boros and Voltron aren't that good, I set out to build an even stronger Boros or Voltron deck. Ive made even additional upgrades to this deck since the video. This deck is unbelievably nasty. It would be interesting to see him get steam rolled by this deck and have that moment where everything he believes about aggro gets challenged.
This is a high end voltron build no doubt, but i still raise my eyebrow at the "near cEDH" claim. With all due respect, a cEDH deck should possess the ability to win or threaten a win turns 1-3, 4 at the very latest. Here we did not see here it was threatened thanks to smothering tithe-timetwister around 5 or 6 but even then you needed a chain of extra turn spells in order to win the game outright. The problem with a voltron deck compared to a cEDH deck in my eyes is specifically what the deck is being filled with: Equipment and auras that do little to progress your game plan the turn that they are played and are not nearly as impactful without your commander in play. We got lucky here in that we didnt see much interaction against us but rafiq could have just as easily been countered or removed and we would be stuck, and at risk of azami, najeela, or vannifar comboing out and leaving us in the dust. Now, dont get me wrong because i know that i am being hard on this strategy right now but i do want to commend you as a player and a deckbuilder for a few choices in this game. Adding stax elements to a deck like this is great for trying to compete with decks that may be at a higher level and can really level the playing field in your favor. Swords to plowshares on trophy mage is without a doubt
(Accidentally hit reply early, so continued...) the most impactful play made all game as it happened to shut down vannifar from comboing out and leaving us in the dust. If not for gilded drake on najeela, najeela's board state was looking as though it was in a position where it could win at any moment, either through a derevi, cryptolith rite, etc etc. So that absolutely played in our favor. If the interest in cEDH is there at all, i strongly recommend it as the gameplay can actually be very interactive and tense when all decks are playing at around the same power level. The Laboratory Maniacs, The Spike Feeders, and Playing With Power MTG are great channels if you wanna look into what the format looks like a little bit more.
@@tonystark-sl2qj the rest of the decks at the table were cEDH decks though so it managed to compete with them, admitedly none of them managed to put the pressure on early in this game so the near cEDH was justified, even if MTGO screwed some of us over
I was gonna make the forced "this isn't cEDH" comment because, y'know, we've basically been forced to say it with this description but some people already did that for me, so~
Voltron does suck. It win or lose. Either the voltron player is winning I’m the most boring way possible and needs to be focused down or the voltron player is losing and doesn’t get to do anything. Lose lose
Actually quite the opposite. If no one is playing combo at the table I'm probably grabbing my angels deck or my sisay legendary blades deck and the plan is combat damage all the way. When people wanna play their combo out on turn 7 or sooner decks, thats when I start bringing out the winter orbs and other ways to interact with combo. I actually prefer really chill magic. But in the case of this video, I was trying to prove the point against the command zone's comment that voltron is usually very weak. Voltron can be just as strong as you want to make it.
Uh oh. Queue the “actually I think you’ll find this isn’t cEDH” comments 😓
You’re a braver man than me PJ.
Lol. Do you get those too? I wonder if Spike Feeders and Lab Maniacs get it too. "My cedh deck wins on turn 0 as a pregame effect, and can't be countered."
@@CommanderReplay i mean there is quite the difference between compact/easily tutorable win conditions, backed up by interaction and
well... vultron, just as an example, you run 16 or so voltron cards, that do very little to nothing outside of pumping your dude(with some exceptions).
I don't know why not to call it "just" high power? like it definetely is a *very* powerful deck, but i don't see it doing very well in an established cEDH meta.
"not cEDH" does not mean not strong. It just is, that there is a certain amount of power/efficiency expected. Though i don't have a problem with that title, as "near cEDH" does mean "not cEDH, but very powerful deck that can sit with cEDH and win every once in a while", which i can definetely see this deck doing.
i mean i'm sure there are quite a bit of people you could find to play cEDH to prove me wrong, i would actually very enjoy to see that. (and what vultron commander the best is)
Commander Replay - I’ve never labelled a video as cEDH because I know it’ll attract all the naysayers.
Shouldn’t let that stop me though because you’re going to piss at least one person off no matter what you do. Labelling a really weak deck as cEDH seems like it’d be a good April fools joke.
@@Narabedla4 the rest of the decks at the table were cEDH decks though, Azami was High Tide, Najeela was infinite combats, vannifar was pod
@@luisdunfordgavira selvala? i saw a vannifar
Now these are the kinds of games I enjoy
I've played a bunch of different kinds of voltron commanders and I have to say bant is definitely the best and most efficient color pair for voltron as these specific color help shore up some of the weaknesses of the strategy
You should go on command zone, that would be awesome
lol he can’t just “go on the Command Zone”. What do you want him to do, break in?
@@Station9.75
Actually, you'd be surprised. Not in regards to the breaking in aspect but what he could do is get in contact with them and ask if they'd want him as a guest.
It is a longshot no question about it but... As long as he's able to offer some particular charismatic side or achievement in MTG, he'd definitely have a shot at it.
Like trying to organize a get together on the command zone where everyone is a MTG RUclips content creator.
He is truly a perfect person to put on the Command Zone. He plays Boros with the skill of nobody else, and is also a voltron fanatic. He could really show those styles of play to the larger community, and maybe help change some people’s opinion’s on them.
One of my favorite voltron commanders is Sliver Overlord. He's just so good at finding solutions and knocking opponents out
I was facing that deck at the shop last week with Syr Gwyn. I cast a winter orb before he untapped and promptly lost :)
Really good Voltron is Skullbriar the walking grave
Command zone needs to bring you on and play I would love that only because they say a lot without fact checking
Also pj because of you my cousin is scared of my new deck God eternal Kefnet U turns
As they should be! Im scared of that deck, even with my best decks. Interacting with things on the stack is just difficult.
Commander Replay I mean he’s also afraid because its me a guy who offer gold in one hand but a knife in the other and I always add loop holes to my deals so I always honor them well also being able to turn without out a worry
I am so damn happy you did this!!!!
I think this is one of my favourite games to date holy
Well done! Mask of Memory is awesome with double strike.
Yes it is. Ive used it with Aurelia for years. I will often out draw the blue and the green players at the table with it. So good.
Good man! I love voltron, and actually just built two different Voltrom decks, thankfully I dont have a cEDH meta bjt still.
I think I nailed down the Rafiq commander deck. And the trick is run jankier draft chaft cards- like darksteel axe and other varients like. Start game aggressive or die trying! Lol one of my fave decks thay works well.
I am fully on board with all the people who want you on Game Knights. You've become the voice of Voltron players, so it's only fair. And while I enjoy CZ's EDH content, their discussions and assumptions lack solid footing.
As for cEDH, I'd look into Shu Yun for spellslinger Voltron, but who am I to tell you anything about Voltron =)
I'd say their assertation that voltron is not cEDH is fairly accurate.
It's hard to gauge because voltron decks struggle in Focused metas that simply have a lot of Black players in them. Not that they're bad, rather that metas are a factor.
@@rosspenney5158 Not t1-t2 cEDH for sure, but to say they all fall into 5-6 category is just blasphemy. Absolutely agree that only your meta defines what's good and what's not going to work. In our meta we have a lot of black, but even there my troll creatureless Yargle was able to bargle. And Shu Yun/Feather can pull its weight in stronger metas. Sigarda isn't bothered with pacts and edicts at all.
PJ, when Azami countered your fire and ice, you should’ve cyclonic rifted either overloaded or for 2 mana targeting chrome mox because that would’ve taken the azami’s fifth mana to pay for the pact of negation trigger. Sad you didn’t see this:(
Azami had 4 islands and Cavern in play, he literally counted the lands after the Pact.
Rafiq is still a great commander. Sweet video.
Najeela, as you pointed out, says 'controller', not owner ;)
English is such a fluid language. :)
Your opponent misplayed pretty hard when you cast timetwister, opting to cast Nature's Claim in response to the Tithe triggers instead of earlier when TT was still on the stack.
I think his opponent drew the Claim from the Timetwister trigger, so they couldn't have done it before.
Ross Penney he drew into it off of the timetwister silly
@@ProaMc my b
I wonder what would have happened had your opponent nature's claimed in response to the cast of timetwister.
Uh, they drew it with the Timetwister, so that was impossible. Sorry.
I know this is a year old but u were supposed to get the double mask trigger
I forget what happened :) Mask of memory OP tho.
@@CommanderReplay you gave the creature double strike and kept saying that he shouldn't get the second trigger even though mask of memory says damage dealt and since you did double strike that's twice the damage so double the trigger so you kept denying the trigger not that it mattered in this game. Definitely Op
@1:51 Remora was countered by Mental Misstep
Haven't seen "game two" yet, but man that deck rocks!
Personally I would take out Forgotten Ancient (too slow) and Brave the Elements for more counterspells like Dispel and Negate or even Force of Will + Pact of Negation. I like more interaction in my decks, I hate feeling helpless when stuff is happening.
Also, I usually disagree with some of the command zone podcasts but the "powerlevel scale" they did is somewhat accurate.I STILL think 1-10 scale leaves much to the interpretation, but they said that too in the episode, Voltron is a flawed strategy as is Aggro in general CEDH wise, too many variables in a style of play where consistancy is everything and most decks can either generate infinite value or infinite combat steps in turn 3/4 unoposed.
Voltron is great in a 6-8 Meta and can hang out with the big leagues, even having good matchups against some CEDH decks, but having to untap with your commander gear him up/ pump him up to lethal damage (in sorcery speed most of the time) enter combat to take out a single opponent? Yeah, I'd rather combo everyone out with my Selvala on turn 3 or my Thrrassios/Tymna instant speed Flash + Hulk = I win the game.
Well, Forgotten Ancient and Brave the Elements certainly didn't work well together this game. Counterspells are usually good, but a one-mana protection spell is sometimes cheaper than the next best counter and doubles as evasion. But there are only 4 white creatures in the 99 and no auras or equipment that give shroud or protection from white, so this is the wrong one. If it had been Emerge Unscathed or Gods Willing, it could have saved the Ancient. And if the Ancient survived one turn cycle, it could have transferred enough counters to Rafiq to make him lethal even with no other power buffs.
Yay Voltron!
Hey man can you make decks with cards that are more reflective of the general, rather than decks with just straight up good cards? I've noticed that those A+++ auto include cards, you put in all your decks, which I understand but it just feels like i'm watching the same gameplay when they all play manacrypt, smothering tithe, cyclonic rift, teferis protection ect.
have you ever seem a mtggoldfish episode when they try to play with cEDH decks? they always fail to play well, this do not prove at all that voltron is that strong, if you play against your patrons that are not used to cEDH this proves that you may play better than them at best.
Man was hoping it was Goat Tribal
COMPETITIVE GOAT TRIBAL. Actually i was fooling around with a "competitive" angels build last night. Its not super competitive, but I got a turn 3 chancellor of the annex into play and brought it back a few times until it finally got exiled. Theres some reasonably powerful stuff to do in reanimator.
I feel like Josh owe you some games bro..
We all know pj is well know for his highly competitive decks
They aren't highly competitive, but I do snipe games from Cedh decks often enough to be a thorn in their side.
GG
Rafiq is soooooooo goooood,
could of started laying the commander damage on turn 4
Lmao niceeeee!!!!!
I'm looking for the day when you will smash Jimmy and Josh IN THEIR FACES with your Aurelia Reanimator deck
we can just have Josh pull out Teferi
So since we are using their grading system you also need to use their criteria. Correct me if I am wrong but for this to be a 9 or a 10 you must consistently threaten the win at turn 2-6...I would say that with some luck turn 6 is very possible after looking through the deck list however I will say that I would 100% call this an 8 based on their criteria. Voltron is always going to be less powerful because the win condition is fragile. Against 10's yes, it does "suck" however in this game with 8s and maybe 9s it looked sweet. It has its place and cEDH is not where that place is until wizards does something to assist it. I know you are saying that this is not cEDH, but rather near it and that I would agree with, but command zone defined cEDH as 9 and 10 thus making this an 8
I will happily take my 8, maybe 8.5. I retooled this list a little after the video and instead of armageddon Ive gone for full spell lock with Terferi KNowedlge pool, rule of law, and defeaning silence. I don't necessarily need to win on turn 6, but I need to lock the board out in a meaningful and prevent everyone else from winning by turn 6. Great comment though, I appreciate that you got what I was going for. Most people just freakout when i use the C word in a video. "competitive"
@@CommanderReplay command zone is maybe harder on voltron than they should be but it is definitely putting a handicap on yourself when you are talking about I want to be as powerful as possible. It also takes some amazing threat assessment to figure out which order to take people out in
I think people also shy away from voltron because it tends to make people sit there for an hour after dying often (in paper that is).
@@aarong2606 Yeah that is a concern with one player dying at time. But if you play a lockout strategy, and it resolves, then it actually doesn't take too much longer. If people can't cast 10 spells in a turn there turn gets much shorter. Maybe its a cause I play A LOT of commander, but to me the threat assessment portion seems fine...been doing it for years with boros. Try to kill the player thats ahead or gonna win on the next turn whenever possible, and leave the players who are behind for last...its an oversimplification, but it works.
I mentioned this on twitter. I think the problem is that their view is based heavily off people they play at GPs and things who are just playing a fun voltron deck. Its probably got a ton of equipment and not enough interaction for the JLK play style so of course he probably crushes them. But when you build one with the mindset of interacting with your opponents to stop them from winning, you are free to bash away for as long as it takes. I find that a lot of decks just crumble to winter orb and helm of possession. Nothing would make me happier than to use those against JLK.
@@CommanderReplay yeah I suppose but I think it would still prove hard if Josh pulled out his Teferi deck lol. I really do hope wizards balances voltron like maybe with a shared commander damage or something...as far as those stax pieces go they do indeed work well...I have a guy in my group who plays them but unfortunately seedborn muse is in every green deck I play hahaha
Lol yeah thats a real card right there. Teferi is pretty obnoxious, super difficult to interact with. Theres where customizing the removal is gonna be needed.
I wish they would merge MTGO and Arena. MTGO is hellish on my eyes, (legally blind) but I want to play real commander and not bullshit watered-down brawl.
That would be glorious. What I would not look forward to is the card acquisition. But yes would love the faster game play and visuals.
They legit never said voltron was bad. They just said it wasn’t the best archetype. And it is a fact that there are 0 cEDH voltron decks. Chillax a bit
"near cedh" not evenly remotely close.
They did say that it probably wouldn't really be an 8. This deck is easily an 8 and I built this morning and have made 0 revisions.
Sure, I’ll give you that! I think voltron, I’d built well, is certainly stronger than The Command Zone thinks it is (though it is very expensive to make a strong voltron deck), but a voltron deck will never be a cEDH deck or “near” cEDH deck.
Yeah my main goal here was to prove thats its more than an 8. Not that its taking down flash hulk. But I have taken down flash hulk, najeela, narset and friends with Akiri and Bruse. It doesn't work every time, but neither does most things that aren't flash hulk. Ive played in near cedh metas, they are about turn 6 wins very consistently. Again if you fire removal at them or lock them down, doesn't matter what turn you are trying win on. You just smash face while they can't play their combo. Having played a lot of decks similar to this, the big problem I noticed is actually green decks like gitrog and selvala. They put a lot of meat into play so you really need some good evasion and to not die on the backswing which can be difficult.
@@CommanderReplay then it isn't more than an 8. A 9 is the baseline level of cedh decks, stuff that is more fringe or less optimal generals for strategies like 5c food chain. 10 would be your mainstay cedh decks and arguably there should be a secret 11 for Tymna and Thrasios. 8 is the absolute best Windgrace, Muldrotha or Teysa Karlov they could ever be, which I'd still say is above this rafiq. There isn't much stopping repeated Fleshbag effects all 3 of those decks can muster. If the deck presented here is an 8, it's low in 8. If you play in a cedh POD and not a pod with 1 flash Hulk deck, you killing the flash Hulk player just enables another deck to win with less chance of being stopped. There's a reason Blood Pod is a deck filled with hate bears to turn off various wincons whilst smacking face instead of just going for the highest possible damage.
*Wins on turn 9* “yeah this is near competitive alright.”
Strong deck! Not even close to a cEDH deck though:)
It doesn't matter what you turn you win, as long as no one else wins before you. You see how many counters spell went off this game? Flash hulk doesn't win in 4 turns with that going on either.
someone has never played against high powered stax i see.
The cEDH dick measuring is real...
the other decks at the table were cEDH decks though Azami was High Tide, Vannifar was Pod Hulk, Najeela was one of the control variants that draws a lot of cards and then goes infinite combat steps. Also most cEDH games never finish early and tend to go on for quite a few turns.
@@CommanderReplay flash hulk has potential to win turn 1 in the first upkeep lol....and actually command zone literally used the turn that you win as the scale to measure hte "grading system" you can't say that you will make a deck "over an 8" in reference to their video and then ignore criteria.
I dig Command Zone, but at this point I think they have to be dominated by Boros.
Personal opinion. Cannot stand Command Zone.
They do a good job of keeping my aggro fires burning. Every time they say Boros and Voltron aren't that good, I set out to build an even stronger Boros or Voltron deck. Ive made even additional upgrades to this deck since the video. This deck is unbelievably nasty. It would be interesting to see him get steam rolled by this deck and have that moment where everything he believes about aggro gets challenged.
This is a high end voltron build no doubt, but i still raise my eyebrow at the "near cEDH" claim. With all due respect, a cEDH deck should possess the ability to win or threaten a win turns 1-3, 4 at the very latest. Here we did not see here it was threatened thanks to smothering tithe-timetwister around 5 or 6 but even then you needed a chain of extra turn spells in order to win the game outright. The problem with a voltron deck compared to a cEDH deck in my eyes is specifically what the deck is being filled with: Equipment and auras that do little to progress your game plan the turn that they are played and are not nearly as impactful without your commander in play. We got lucky here in that we didnt see much interaction against us but rafiq could have just as easily been countered or removed and we would be stuck, and at risk of azami, najeela, or vannifar comboing out and leaving us in the dust.
Now, dont get me wrong because i know that i am being hard on this strategy right now but i do want to commend you as a player and a deckbuilder for a few choices in this game. Adding stax elements to a deck like this is great for trying to compete with decks that may be at a higher level and can really level the playing field in your favor. Swords to plowshares on trophy mage is without a doubt
(Accidentally hit reply early, so continued...) the most impactful play made all game as it happened to shut down vannifar from comboing out and leaving us in the dust. If not for gilded drake on najeela, najeela's board state was looking as though it was in a position where it could win at any moment, either through a derevi, cryptolith rite, etc etc. So that absolutely played in our favor.
If the interest in cEDH is there at all, i strongly recommend it as the gameplay can actually be very interactive and tense when all decks are playing at around the same power level. The Laboratory Maniacs, The Spike Feeders, and Playing With Power MTG are great channels if you wanna look into what the format looks like a little bit more.
@@tonystark-sl2qj the rest of the decks at the table were cEDH decks though so it managed to compete with them, admitedly none of them managed to put the pressure on early in this game so the near cEDH was justified, even if MTGO screwed some of us over
I was gonna make the forced "this isn't cEDH" comment because, y'know, we've basically been forced to say it with this description
but some people already did that for me, so~
Voltron does suck. It win or lose. Either the voltron player is winning I’m the most boring way possible and needs to be focused down or the voltron player is losing and doesn’t get to do anything. Lose lose
I’d hate to play a game with you, you seem like you play just really overall obnoxious cards
Actually quite the opposite. If no one is playing combo at the table I'm probably grabbing my angels deck or my sisay legendary blades deck and the plan is combat damage all the way. When people wanna play their combo out on turn 7 or sooner decks, thats when I start bringing out the winter orbs and other ways to interact with combo. I actually prefer really chill magic. But in the case of this video, I was trying to prove the point against the command zone's comment that voltron is usually very weak. Voltron can be just as strong as you want to make it.
Welcome to CEDH. Every card is obnoxious.