As Charles Barkely said: "The zone defense just makes the game easier for bad players". I can't even imagine how dominant Kobe could be in an era where only one defender can guard him off the ball.
@@heirrose1606they play a man to man zone hybrid especially the 04 pistons and 08 Lakers but the spurs against Lebron in 07 and 13 played more zone and 2011 Mavericks. Then people forget some of the wacky rules in the 90s such as illegal defense, the Charles Barkley rule and a shortened 3pt. Line. The best defensive schemes was from 2004-2014 they would probably shaded Kareem before he got the ball or disrupt the pass to make it difficult for Kareem to get in position for the sky hook. In 2016 the Warriors really made those old defenses look so bad that Pop showed his hands because he lost 0-3 against the Warriors and the Warriors just blew out the grind house Memphis by 50 and the Tom Thibido bulls by 30 so Pop use switching defense that worked and Cavs and every body copied that defensive strategy. Curry destroyed those old 2000s defenses just as Shaq demolished the old illegal defense rule.
Celtics were lucky Ariza was out that series. Just glad Kobe and the Lakers got their revenge in 10. KG, Ray Allen, and Pierce had to team up just to beat Kobe lol
The Lakers were also down two starters. Radmonovich was terrible guarding Pierce. He was slow and had zero defense and he wasn’t hitting no 3s his only strength. Bynum was out. The rim protector, keep perk off the boards, and give gasol help down there.
@KobeConfidence The guys Kobe faces can guard Kobe better than the guy guys MJ faces because Kobe's defenders are faster, stronger, better conditioned and have all the characteristics of athletism which makes it easier for them to stop Kobe from scoring every trip down the court.
I laugh at some peoples lack of basketball history. When Jordan played zones were illegal. There was a thing called "illegal defense" which basically required you guarded a man. You couldn't double anyone unless they had the ball. In 2000-2001 the zone was made legal (I believe to slow down the Lakers). To prevent players from camping in the lane they made the 3 sec defensive rule. Yes hand checking was legal but the new rules it is not yet they hand check Kobe all the time.
If Kobe played so poorly against these "defensive juggernauts" because of their great team defense, then what is the excuse for why Wade was able to play so brilliantly against these same teams? Wade is obviously one of the best, if not the best slasher in the game today. His quickness and ability to finish at the rim is why teams have trouble containing him. Jordan was quicker, a better slasher and a better finisher than Wade and also had a better jumper. You do the math!!
@strandedNbabylon He was dropping 40 50 peices on top rank defenses those 2 seasons. He was averaging 25ppg and leading the wizards towards a playoff berth before his knee injury in the 02 season too. Whatchumean how that work out.
@@UR2Hwhat was MJ efficiency, I’ll wait. MJ a great player but played in a league where post players had the advantages because of the rules, such as illegal defense, the Charles Barkley rule and a shortened 3pt. Line. From 2004-2014 the defense was way more complex until Curry and the Warriors destroyed those defensive teams in 2016 just as Shaq demolished the old illegal defense rule then Pop nearly got swept in the regular season and he used switching defense on the warriors and the Cavs and everybody copied that defense.
Not discounting the defense Jordan played against, but the Lakers were also up against one of the greatest defensive teams in finals history in 08. They weren't prepared for it physically and mentally and it showed of course. Also LAL in this season were not as strong as the teams in 09, and 10. Ariza wasn't 100% in this series, and he was instrumental in the 09 title. Gasol got overwhelmed and Kobe was neutralised at times with the collapsing defense.
OMG Kobe is a beast. They constantly collapsed on him and he still got his. But this guys comparison to Jordan is a bit off. There are many reasons of proof but he did choose a great video. Top defense Celtics in the Finals. But imagine Bulls vs Detroit or New York. Finals or even regular season. You'll see Jordan get hammered. Those teams kicked his ass and he still got off.
This is nuts! Even Kobe said the Jordan era defense is "better basketball." "I'd like for us to go back to the old rules," Bryant said. "Get rid of the 'crutch defense,' known as the zone defense, and have guys guard man-to-man and stuff like that [and allow] hand checking and all that. I think that's better basketball." Search it in google: "Bryant wants 'old-school' rules again"
Jus says he likes it more. He said the zone defense makes scoring way harder too. And even Jordan said that he wouldn’t be able to score like he did with zone.
@MisterHUmster correction i meant there are alot of slow players that are good im not saying wade isnt good i actually think he is the best player on the heat team roster right now they call him flash for a reason but u should watch this video and tell me when was the last time wade was guarded like this or ever was guarded like this by celtics WATCH THIS -2008 NBA FINALS: Kobe Bryant vs. Boston Celtics Zone Defense
The Celtics figured out how to slow down and stop Kobe. There are similarities between the Celtics' defense and the Pistons' defense against Jordan such as collapsing into the paint and using the zone defense to create double or triple teams, forcing them to take hard shots instead of making an additional pass. Jordan in the 90's can't be stopped because the referees protect him. There are existing videos that show that softly touching Jordan gets players into foul trouble immediately.
@@Readyforfemacamp Yep. This is why the defense was limited and players do their isolation basketball and penetrate the defense much more comfortably than today's defense. Players now have to work much harder to go through the hole, but when the zone defense sets up properly, the paint gets clogged up and at times, the offense just dies and then players have to go for forced long-range jumpers and threes. I've watched Division I and II basketball live and I've seen the team's offense often dies when the zone is used properly, so the team needs to make tough shots or outplay the defense by scoring before the zone defense sets up. Jordan doesn't like zones because his bread and butter drives and his signature fadeaway gets bothered by having a lane guarded by satellite defenders and a second guy goes after him without the ball. Jordan is forced to take forced long-range 2-pointers. This is something Kobe succeeded against the zones, but I remember him saying that he hated it with a passion. The 2000's players had to get used to it and the star players despised it and complained about it, and eventually adapted. Those guys wanted Jordan's era since the defense was restricted and they want to stomp the defender one-on-one, pretty much selfish basketball to be honest. Zone defenses encourages more teamwork and ball movement. Today, players are used to it and players now can neutralize the zone by being in better position for the drive (although they have to work harder on that) or launch a three before they set up. My previous point missed some of the important details. Double-teaming is not an illegal defense, but guarding the guy without the ball is illegal defense in the 90's. So, the Pistons' defense ended up collapsing in the paint when Jordan goes to the hole. But a second guy guarding Jordan without the ball already prevents the drive (assuming the referees don't prevent the defenders from playing defense and actually letting the players play). I wish I learned that much sooner, but I've watched TheRiggedBA videos, and that's where I significantly improved my basketball knowledge and how the NBA defenses worked today vs. the 90's (favorite of most NBA fans). And yeah, I've seen Kobe forced shots when a second guy defends him without the ball and he makes them and also missing them badly. At times, Kobe does stupid things by shooting over three players and missing them. That's how zone defenses do on players. The Celtics bothered Kobe with the zone defenses.
@@jdmrchem5 Like you said, double teaming was not the same as illegal defense. If I'm not mistaken, you double a player without the ball in the 90s, but only if that player was on the weakside. There used to be a lot of hybrid zones in the 80s and early 90s mostly because of the poor spacing. Since players didn't space the floor so much, they could simply sag off their man and protect the paint without being called for a violation. You mentioned the Bad Boys Pistons and that's a great example. The early 90s Knicks did the same. Sagging off, collapsing the paint if Jordan decided to drive to the basket. Jordan, being the athlete he was, still managed to thrive against them, but he certainly had to work hard for his shots. In the mid-late 90s, teams spaced out more. Still, the Heat,Sonics,Knicks,Pacers,Hawks and even the Bulls used to run hybrid zones. With the 3 seconds defensive rule, that pretty much defangles zone, I don't think we saw many teams running efficient zones for long periods of time. Larry Brown's Pistons were an anti zone team that played straight up man-to-man defense with immaculate help defense and that team quickly worsened defensively as Flip Saunders took over and ran a constant zone defense (a zone that was completely exploited by Wade in the 2006 ECF). In today's game, we don't see a lot of zone. Last time I checked, zone is used around 2-4% of possessions. In the 2000s, the absence of illegal defense allowed help defenders to have a lot more freedom and teams could use it more efficiently. However, with the poor spacing of the 90s, even with the illegal defense, defenders could sag off their man and double quickly. The Bulls and Sonics of the mid 90s had amazing help defense.
@@davidschmidt1793disagree the 90s ran soft zones and 80s didn’t hardly any, otherwise they would shaded Kareem before he even got to his position for the sky hook. The 90s also had wacky rules such as illegal defense, the Charles Barkley rules and a shortened 3pt. Line. The 2004-2014 was some of the best defensive schemes In NBA history because the 2014 and 2007 Spurs and 2011 Mavericks use exclusively zone defense against Lebron while the 04 pistons and 08 Celtics use a man to man hybrid zone on Kobe and Shaq this defense was effective until in 2016 when Curry destroyed those defenses just as Shaq demolished the illegal defense rules which why teams copied the spurs use switching on curry because they were 0-3 against them prior to that and they abandoned their zone then the Cavs copied and also everybody else.
@@davidschmidt1793disagree the 90s ran soft zones and 80s didn’t hardly any, otherwise they would shaded Kareem before he even got to his position for the sky hook. The 90s also had wacky rules such as illegal defense, the Charles Barkley rules and a shortened 3pt. Line which why the NBA changed the rules because fans from 98-2001 complained about Shaq dominance, the Illegal defense rule and Charles Barkley backing down style . The 2004-2014 was some of the best defensive schemes In NBA history because the 2014 and 2007 Spurs and 2011 Mavericks use exclusively zone defense against Lebron while the 04 pistons and 08 Celtics use a man to man hybrid zone on Kobe and Shaq this defense was effective until in 2016 when Curry destroyed those defenses just as Shaq demolished the illegal defense rules which why teams copied the spurs use switching on curry because they were 0-3 against them prior to that and they abandoned their zone then the Cavs copied and also everybody else.
@@davelouie131 80s and 90s ran a lot of matchup zones, which are pretty much zone stances where the defender didn't totally leave his man. The paint, post and midrange were heavily defended, meaning defenders sagged off on the perimeter in order to protect the paint. In the 2000s, some teams ran zones, most didn't. The Mavs used it and so did the 2010 Suns. Illegal defense is in the league until the 01-02 season. The first 2 rings won by Shaq and Kobe were happened before illegal defense was banned. Once they banned it, they also introduced the 3 seconds defensive rule. After that, they banned handchecking, loosened traveling and carrying rules and started calling a lot more fouls on the defense. The 04 Pistons ran a sagging off man to man defense. If you see that as a hybrid zone(because of the sagging off part), then I won't blame you. But that's exactly the same defense teams ran in the 90s. The difference is that help defenders had more freedom to float around due to the lack of illegal defense, but it was also harder to protect the paint because of the 3 seconds defensive rule. 08 Pistons mostly ran the same style of defense, but they occasionally zoned up, about 5% of the time I'd say.
you know jordan has dropped 51 pts against a modern defense at age 38. i repeat age 38. imagine if he was in his prime, honestly he would've scored over 100
Poster is kobe's girlfriend. Jordan played when they could hand check. Much more physical game back in the 90s. I do think the zone might be underutilized in the NBA.
Thanks for these videos dude. Ridiculous that people would say MJ faced a tougher D. Hand-Checking is alive and well. I'm not going to agree and say these defenses were better, but they were at least on par.
Kobe never dropped 40 in the 08 Finals his high in the 08 Finals was 36 then he followed that up by going 21-62 from the field the next 3 Games including blowing a 20+ pt lead in Game 4
Even lebron couldnt get to the finals cause all I can remember was how good the celtic defense is kobe got shut down and im a kobe he learned to pass the other 2 finals and hes teammate grew
nono momo Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen joined the Celtics in 2008. In 2011, if you have Lebron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh all in their prime, you can't double team anyone, you just can't.
@newagepun Well if Kobe's 81 point game was so easy to do then why couldn't Jordan do that vs some easier teams? The same Raptors team that Kobe got 81 vs in 05-06 also held Kobe to his lowest game of the season...11 points. Fact= Most of Kobe's shots in that 81 point game came from jumpshots while in Jordans highest scoring games he got mostly easy layups or really short jumpers that were uncontested. As far as you saying theres only 3 good 3 defensive teams now then I lol at you.
@LakersPlayoffs Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau was the defensive coordinator for BOTH the '08 Celtics and 90s Knicks. When asked to compare both defenses, he said the following: "Right now I'd say the [New York] teams were [better]. They were [much more] aggressive and [physical] because at that time, you were [allowed] to [play] much more [physical]. And we had [greater size]." -- Tom Thibodeau: "Tom Thibodeau Q & A", by Kevin Pelton; basketballpspectus . com, Mar 25, 2008
Nice video, the team with the most financial contributions to the NBA usually wins and that is a fact. David Stern orders the refs to make calls or no-calls on certain plays against certain teams based on money.
The refs don't cause you to blow a giant lead at halftime at home or get your ass handed to you by nearly 40 points in the deciding game. The Celtics deserved that 08 title man.
@LakersPlayoffs hey dude you should check out something called the jordan rules. it was a defense made by the pistons where they would consistently triple team jordan in the paint and clobber him every time he came off a pick or screen. i respect other people's opinions and im not a blind fanboy but if you think jordan had it easier you don't really know basketball.
This stiff said Jordan played against man to man defense and short defenders...man f*ck his opinion! I say that because there is a such thing as a stupid opinion and his was just that
@newagepun Lol no they didn't lol. Kobe made a lot of tough shots in the 81 point game and I'm sorry buddy your buddy MJ can't hit half of the tough shots Kobe can. Most teams are average defense now days which yes the average defense now days is a lot better than the average defense back then. But the best teams at defense are like you said Spurs, Celtics, Thunder and Ones like Houston Rockets with Shane battier, The Chicago Bulls, The Miami Heat, and many more.
Someone finally speaks the truth!!! Jordan faced more "physical" defenses, Kobe faced much better defenses. This Celtic defense was an all time great defense. Jordan never faced a defense as great as the 08 Celtics.
you obviously saw the only 2 jordan vs defense vids on youtube,just like i did,but i got to say,this defense looks just as tough as jordan vs sonics in 96.
I put the the blame on Phil. It was Jackson's duty to change the attack against zone defense. Everybody knows ball hogging and zone defense don't get along together, and it doesn't matter who you are, Jordan, James, Wade, Rose, or Kobe. You might get lucky a few times, most of the times you will flop, unless you pass...
@charliebell01 zone was illegal but a lot of teams got away with it, you do realize that mj lit up both paul pierce and KG while they defended him when he was 38-40 years old and they still couldnt contain him.
Calling 90's basketball a "watered down era" is moronic. It was the golden age where players had become more athletic than the 80's players, on average, yet still had the benefit of good coaching in high school and college. The guys today are great athletes but have poor skills. 90's players had it all, more than any other generation of NBA players.
ok the best way to judge this vid is like this, take jordan out of the equation, kobe was dealing with a tough, physical, sometimes illegal defence, the defence was tough, you saw how many fouls they committed and got away with, and the hard fouls they were committing, just forget about jordan being mentioned and hes got a point
this is not a zone defense. its just GREAT help defense whenever he gets inside, and an occasional double team thrown in to add to the confusion. gotta love that boston d.
My apologies for my immaturity then, maybe this defense was on par as the defense of the Sonic's and I wasn't giving it enough credit. But my opinion is that the defense on Jordan was still more physical
Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever. Compare lebron and kobe if you want, but Michael jordan is in his own league. The Nba can't touch him.
Just because Kobe faced a better defense than Jordan did, that does not make him better, people please understand that! Nowhere in the video did it say Kobe was better. I can imagine Jordan finding a way to beat this defense had he played in this era.
The NBA didn't care about pure basketball enthusiasts. It's not enough of them to sell tickets. So they had to give players more freedom to move. To build excitement for the new generation that only cares about immediate scoring. Regardless of all my points one fact can't be disputed. Players of past and present, legends, coaches, commentators, and pure basketball enthusiasts have spoken. You can be a Kobe fan or MJ fan but the vote is in and there is nothing you can do or say about it. MJ GOAT.
What did they change in 05??? Do you think handchecking has that big of a difference??? Kobe shoots a low % because he takes many times extremly difficult shots and he has always been the shooter at the end of the shotclock
Illegal defense was changed to make the game speedier and less difficult to understand because many fans didn't know why it was called. The three second violation exists, but it rarely gets called, why would it be any different in the NBA Finals?
Second place is not a victory. Celtics beat the lakers, and nothings else matters, no mater what they did, fauls, illegal screens or whatever. They won the championship.
How about this........................ Pass the ball and make the "zone" roate. Elementry stuff for basketball players. You use words like force and must in the video, nobody made Kobe shoot over double and triple teams.....pass!!!
Thank you the annoying Kobetard fans don't even have the passion for playing basketball Utep stack offense made teams not even want to play zone against them
I agree with that to an extent but your forgetting some other defenders in his era. But damn, I am glad you mentioned Dumars. It tells me you know what your saying.
Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing, Mourning, Mutombo, Smits. This Era Shaq, Ming, Howard, Duncan. Other than Howard being a freak of nature the 90's had more centers that had way more skill. Even Shaq and Duncan couldn't win until the end of the Bull's dominance.
The defense in this series was rough but saying that this eras defense as a whole is tougher than jordan's is a joke. Jackson said it himself, jordan would put up 45 per game today.
This reminds me of the bay boys pistons' "Jordan rule". Except the jordan rule was a lot tougher. As you see Kobe still could make it to the post. MJ barely escaped from the perimeter every time they played. Not to mention the game was a lot more physical back then.
Putting your hands on the offensive player isnt cheating bruh. Pierce putting kobe off balance with a sleight touch is just smart play... LA fans are the biggest whiners jesus...
This guy says Jordan never faced defenses like the the 04 Pistons or the 08 Celtics. Well the 2010 Celtics defense is arguably just as good as they were in 08. And the 05 and 06 Pistons were also very good defensively. The 05 pistons didn't repeat but did make it to the Finals and took the Spurs to game 7. Wade outperformed Kobe against the 2010 Celtics and outplayed Kobe's 04 Finals performance twice against the 05 and 06 Pistons in the ECF. Kobe also had the far better team for both series.
@oliverrainman ....Tom Thibodeau Made That Defense SPECIFICALLY For Phil Jackson's Triangle Offense...That's Why The Celtics Were Playing Kobe So Tough....The Defense Was Made Strictly To Limit His Offense...
A. I never said anything about there not being hand checking. The NBA is a physical game no matter what the rules are. I dont know who you are talking to that is saying the NBA isn't physical, but it's just not as physical as it was in Jordan's era. Also don't complain about Kobe not getting foul calls, because at that point he was the most protected player in the League by a long shot. They played LeBron way more physically last season and he killed them
Not the first time, for any team. Think 2001-02 Sacramento Kings. No point complaining, there's no such thing as "this team should have", because they didn't. Same goes for like 10+ other teams in the past 20-25 years. NBA officiating is generally shit. Live with it.
dude its called the Jordan Rules which was a lot tougher than Celtic Defense in Fact the Celtic defense is very similar to the Sonic he faced in 96 and i think he won that year as well as the Finals MVP that year.
@T82486 CBS Sportsline has kept shot charts of made FGs since the rules changed. It catalogs players FGAs misses from inside & outside 15 ft, as well as the FT line. According to their 2010 shot chart, look where these guys scored the MAJORITY of their seasonal pts from: Tyriq Evans: 714 pts on dunks & layups (82% of his total pts)
This video doesn't show illegal ANYTHING. It just showed (to me) that Celtics had great defense and Kobe would rather take the spotlight and aim for the shot rather than pass it to Odom or Gasol who is "20 feet away" I'm just hatin'. Been drinking too much of that stuff.
All of your so called "basketball fans" obvously know nothing about the game. I have been a proud NBA spectator for over 30 years and im telling you this right now, the game is much more difficult to play in then it was even a decade ago. Michael Jordan did face easier defenses on a nightly basis. Go watch a classic hoops game and you will realize quickly how much faster, stronger, smarter all these players are in todays game. And im niether a Bryant or Jordan fan
@notoriousshrey First Wizard year he shot 41%, 44 eFG% 21ppg. Nothing else matters. There is only one reason to be given, he got old. Tons of players get knee surgeries and had to end their careers and performance stats much sooner. Malone was still hooping strongly at 40.
check sonics denfense on Jordan and you will see how tough the 90s defense was. I like the Celtics defense and they are really solid, but the Sonics defense was really physical, Jordan couldn't even get the ball without shaking off the defender 5 times
The suns had NO Amare and played very little defense. Lakers had Odom, who avg 20-11-5 for that series, Kwame who avg 13 and 7 for that series, and Luke Walton who avg 12 and 6 for the series. Lakers were doing well and all Kobe had to do was close the deal. Instead, he refused to shoot the ball in game 7 to prove how much his team needed him. Clearly, this shows Kobe is one of the worst leaders of all time. Jordan, Magic or Bird would NEVER stop shooting to prove a point.
Jordan would have averaged 40 a game without hand-checking. Can you imagine Jordan not figuring it out against the Celtics??? Jordan would have done something to win, not lose. If the Celtics don't have KG and Perk blow out their knees it's an easy three peat. If Rasheed Wallace got in enough shape to give 5 more quality minutes in game 7, it's over and Kobe has his ring against...the Magic??? Instead, Kobe goes 6-24 in GAME SEVEN!!! and the Lakers get 25 free throws in 15 minutes...fubar
![UCF Professor Richard Quinn accuses class of cheating [Original]](/img/1.gif)
As Charles Barkely said: "The zone defense just makes the game easier for bad players". I can't even imagine how dominant Kobe could be in an era where only one defender can guard him off the ball.
Stats show teams score more vs Zone. Celtics played zone less than 5% osmf possessions. The guy who made this video is lying.
@@heirrose1606no he’s not
@@heirrose1606they play a man to man zone hybrid especially the 04 pistons and 08 Lakers but the spurs against Lebron in 07 and 13 played more zone and 2011 Mavericks. Then people forget some of the wacky rules in the 90s such as illegal defense, the Charles Barkley rule and a shortened 3pt. Line. The best defensive schemes was from 2004-2014 they would probably shaded Kareem before he got the ball or disrupt the pass to make it difficult for Kareem to get in position for the sky hook. In 2016 the Warriors really made those old defenses look so bad that Pop showed his hands because he lost 0-3 against the Warriors and the Warriors just blew out the grind house Memphis by 50 and the Tom Thibido bulls by 30 so Pop use switching defense that worked and Cavs and every body copied that defensive strategy. Curry destroyed those old 2000s defenses just as Shaq demolished the old illegal defense rule.
Actually the Boston team in 08 and the piston team on 05 had two of the best defensive efficiency numbers in The last 30 seasons..
Basically this video proves that KOBE BRYANT IS THE BEST PLAYER EVER!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!!
IMAGINE THIS DEFENSE ON LEBRON LMFAO HE WILL ONLY AVERAGE LIKE 5 POINTS ON SOME LUCKY ASS JUMPSHOTS AT MOST.
Celtics were lucky Ariza was out that series. Just glad Kobe and the Lakers got their revenge in 10. KG, Ray Allen, and Pierce had to team up just to beat Kobe lol
The Lakers were also down two starters. Radmonovich was terrible guarding Pierce. He was slow and had zero defense and he wasn’t hitting no 3s his only strength. Bynum was out. The rim protector, keep perk off the boards, and give gasol help down there.
this guy knows what he's talking about. but yeah jordan did have to deal with some tough defense as well but not as bad as kobe.
Never heard of illegal defense? The Celtics defense would have been illegal in the 90's.
@KobeConfidence The guys Kobe faces can guard Kobe better than the guy guys MJ faces because Kobe's defenders are faster, stronger, better conditioned and have all the characteristics of athletism which makes it easier for them to stop Kobe from scoring every trip down the court.
kobe #2 in my book, i dont care what anybody says
I laugh at some peoples lack of basketball history. When Jordan played zones were illegal. There was a thing called "illegal defense" which basically required you guarded a man. You couldn't double anyone unless they had the ball. In 2000-2001 the zone was made legal (I believe to slow down the Lakers). To prevent players from camping in the lane they made the 3 sec defensive rule. Yes hand checking was legal but the new rules it is not yet they hand check Kobe all the time.
Kobe is the goat 🐐
They may be making him work but the way they are doing that is suppose to be illegal in the league
all i can say is that it wont happen on the next championship game.
If Kobe played so poorly against these "defensive juggernauts" because of their great team defense, then what is the excuse for why Wade was able to play so brilliantly against these same teams? Wade is obviously one of the best, if not the best slasher in the game today. His quickness and ability to finish at the rim is why teams have trouble containing him. Jordan was quicker, a better slasher and a better finisher than Wade and also had a better jumper. You do the math!!
@@Readyforfemacamp MJ played against illegal defense as a wizard.
@strandedNbabylon He was dropping 40 50 peices on top rank defenses those 2 seasons. He was averaging 25ppg and leading the wizards towards a playoff berth before his knee injury in the 02 season too. Whatchumean how that work out.
Because at that time wade was in year 3 and nobody considered him a threat
@@UR2Hwhat was MJ efficiency, I’ll wait. MJ a great player but played in a league where post players had the advantages because of the rules, such as illegal defense, the Charles Barkley rule and a shortened 3pt. Line. From 2004-2014 the defense was way more complex until Curry and the Warriors destroyed those defensive teams in 2016 just as Shaq demolished the old illegal defense rule then Pop nearly got swept in the regular season and he used switching defense on the warriors and the Cavs and everybody copied that defense.
Not discounting the defense Jordan played against, but the Lakers were also up against one of the greatest defensive teams in finals history in 08. They weren't prepared for it physically and mentally and it showed of course. Also LAL in this season were not as strong as the teams in 09, and 10. Ariza wasn't 100% in this series, and he was instrumental in the 09 title. Gasol got overwhelmed and Kobe was neutralised at times with the collapsing defense.
OMG Kobe is a beast. They constantly collapsed on him and he still got his. But this guys comparison to Jordan is a bit off. There are many reasons of proof but he did choose a great video. Top defense Celtics in the Finals. But imagine Bulls vs Detroit or New York. Finals or even regular season. You'll see Jordan get hammered. Those teams kicked his ass and he still got off.
If this series was officiated today Kobe would probably shoot 20 fts a game and single handedly foul out 3-4 celtics defenders per game 😂
💯
@@Readyforfemacamptrue
I love michael but face it kobe a better skill player then jordan
Fact
This is nuts! Even Kobe said the Jordan era defense is "better basketball."
"I'd like for us to go back to the old rules," Bryant said. "Get rid of the 'crutch defense,' known as the zone defense, and have guys guard man-to-man and stuff like that [and allow] hand checking and all that. I think that's better basketball."
Search it in google: "Bryant wants 'old-school' rules again"
Jus says he likes it more. He said the zone defense makes scoring way harder too. And even Jordan said that he wouldn’t be able to score like he did with zone.
This video only proves one point, the 2008 boston celtics was a great defensive team.
great video exposing this...Celtics were smart to use these strategies and it's amazing how they got away with a lot of the stuff.
One question for you bro:
"How many titles did MJ win in the 80's?"
How many title did kobe win in the 90s?
@@lawlor2925 and the 2010s
@@lawlor2925 he just got in the league in the 90s smh
And Jordan?@@showtimej2582
although i dont agree totally about jordan not facing hard d, your statements against the celtics are noted and valid, those screens were fucked up
i agree with this
@MisterHUmster correction i meant there are alot of slow players that are good im not saying wade isnt good i actually think he is the best player on the heat team roster right now they call him flash for a reason but u should watch this video and tell me when was the last time wade was guarded like this or ever was guarded like this by celtics
WATCH THIS -2008 NBA FINALS: Kobe Bryant vs. Boston Celtics Zone Defense
imagine if they take away the zone, guys like Kobe and Lebron would just torch defenders like Jordan did back in the day
The Celtics figured out how to slow down and stop Kobe. There are similarities between the Celtics' defense and the Pistons' defense against Jordan such as collapsing into the paint and using the zone defense to create double or triple teams, forcing them to take hard shots instead of making an additional pass. Jordan in the 90's can't be stopped because the referees protect him. There are existing videos that show that softly touching Jordan gets players into foul trouble immediately.
@@Readyforfemacamp Yep. This is why the defense was limited and players do their isolation basketball and penetrate the defense much more comfortably than today's defense. Players now have to work much harder to go through the hole, but when the zone defense sets up properly, the paint gets clogged up and at times, the offense just dies and then players have to go for forced long-range jumpers and threes. I've watched Division I and II basketball live and I've seen the team's offense often dies when the zone is used properly, so the team needs to make tough shots or outplay the defense by scoring before the zone defense sets up. Jordan doesn't like zones because his bread and butter drives and his signature fadeaway gets bothered by having a lane guarded by satellite defenders and a second guy goes after him without the ball. Jordan is forced to take forced long-range 2-pointers. This is something Kobe succeeded against the zones, but I remember him saying that he hated it with a passion. The 2000's players had to get used to it and the star players despised it and complained about it, and eventually adapted. Those guys wanted Jordan's era since the defense was restricted and they want to stomp the defender one-on-one, pretty much selfish basketball to be honest. Zone defenses encourages more teamwork and ball movement. Today, players are used to it and players now can neutralize the zone by being in better position for the drive (although they have to work harder on that) or launch a three before they set up.
My previous point missed some of the important details. Double-teaming is not an illegal defense, but guarding the guy without the ball is illegal defense in the 90's. So, the Pistons' defense ended up collapsing in the paint when Jordan goes to the hole. But a second guy guarding Jordan without the ball already prevents the drive (assuming the referees don't prevent the defenders from playing defense and actually letting the players play). I wish I learned that much sooner, but I've watched TheRiggedBA videos, and that's where I significantly improved my basketball knowledge and how the NBA defenses worked today vs. the 90's (favorite of most NBA fans). And yeah, I've seen Kobe forced shots when a second guy defends him without the ball and he makes them and also missing them badly. At times, Kobe does stupid things by shooting over three players and missing them. That's how zone defenses do on players. The Celtics bothered Kobe with the zone defenses.
@@jdmrchem5 Like you said, double teaming was not the same as illegal defense. If I'm not mistaken, you double a player without the ball in the 90s, but only if that player was on the weakside. There used to be a lot of hybrid zones in the 80s and early 90s mostly because of the poor spacing. Since players didn't space the floor so much, they could simply sag off their man and protect the paint without being called for a violation. You mentioned the Bad Boys Pistons and that's a great example. The early 90s Knicks did the same. Sagging off, collapsing the paint if Jordan decided to drive to the basket. Jordan, being the athlete he was, still managed to thrive against them, but he certainly had to work hard for his shots. In the mid-late 90s, teams spaced out more. Still, the Heat,Sonics,Knicks,Pacers,Hawks and even the Bulls used to run hybrid zones. With the 3 seconds defensive rule, that pretty much defangles zone, I don't think we saw many teams running efficient zones for long periods of time. Larry Brown's Pistons were an anti zone team that played straight up man-to-man defense with immaculate help defense and that team quickly worsened defensively as Flip Saunders took over and ran a constant zone defense (a zone that was completely exploited by Wade in the 2006 ECF). In today's game, we don't see a lot of zone. Last time I checked, zone is used around 2-4% of possessions. In the 2000s, the absence of illegal defense allowed help defenders to have a lot more freedom and teams could use it more efficiently. However, with the poor spacing of the 90s, even with the illegal defense, defenders could sag off their man and double quickly. The Bulls and Sonics of the mid 90s had amazing help defense.
@@davidschmidt1793disagree the 90s ran soft zones and 80s didn’t hardly any, otherwise they would shaded Kareem before he even got to his position for the sky hook. The 90s also had wacky rules such as illegal defense, the Charles Barkley rules and a shortened 3pt. Line. The 2004-2014 was some of the best defensive schemes In NBA history because the 2014 and 2007 Spurs and 2011 Mavericks use exclusively zone defense against Lebron while the 04 pistons and 08 Celtics use a man to man hybrid zone on Kobe and Shaq this defense was effective until in 2016 when Curry destroyed those defenses just as Shaq demolished the illegal defense rules which why teams copied the spurs use switching on curry because they were 0-3 against them prior to that and they abandoned their zone then the Cavs copied and also everybody else.
@@davidschmidt1793disagree the 90s ran soft zones and 80s didn’t hardly any, otherwise they would shaded Kareem before he even got to his position for the sky hook. The 90s also had wacky rules such as illegal defense, the Charles Barkley rules and a shortened 3pt. Line which why the NBA changed the rules because fans from 98-2001 complained about Shaq dominance, the Illegal defense rule and Charles Barkley backing down style . The 2004-2014 was some of the best defensive schemes In NBA history because the 2014 and 2007 Spurs and 2011 Mavericks use exclusively zone defense against Lebron while the 04 pistons and 08 Celtics use a man to man hybrid zone on Kobe and Shaq this defense was effective until in 2016 when Curry destroyed those defenses just as Shaq demolished the illegal defense rules which why teams copied the spurs use switching on curry because they were 0-3 against them prior to that and they abandoned their zone then the Cavs copied and also everybody else.
@@davelouie131 80s and 90s ran a lot of matchup zones, which are pretty much zone stances where the defender didn't totally leave his man. The paint, post and midrange were heavily defended, meaning defenders sagged off on the perimeter in order to protect the paint. In the 2000s, some teams ran zones, most didn't. The Mavs used it and so did the 2010 Suns. Illegal defense is in the league until the 01-02 season. The first 2 rings won by Shaq and Kobe were happened before illegal defense was banned. Once they banned it, they also introduced the 3 seconds defensive rule. After that, they banned handchecking, loosened traveling and carrying rules and started calling a lot more fouls on the defense. The 04 Pistons ran a sagging off man to man defense. If you see that as a hybrid zone(because of the sagging off part), then I won't blame you. But that's exactly the same defense teams ran in the 90s. The difference is that help defenders had more freedom to float around due to the lack of illegal defense, but it was also harder to protect the paint because of the 3 seconds defensive rule. 08 Pistons mostly ran the same style of defense, but they occasionally zoned up, about 5% of the time I'd say.
you know jordan has dropped 51 pts against a modern defense at age 38. i repeat age 38. imagine if he was in his prime, honestly he would've scored over 100
Poster is kobe's girlfriend. Jordan played when they could hand check. Much more physical game back in the 90s. I do think the zone might be underutilized in the NBA.
Tibideou was the defensive coach for the Celtics.
Thanks for these videos dude. Ridiculous that people would say MJ faced a tougher D. Hand-Checking is alive and well.
I'm not going to agree and say these defenses were better, but they were at least on par.
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« Kobe was a willing passer »
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Kobe never dropped 40 in the 08 Finals his high in the 08 Finals was 36 then he followed that up by going 21-62 from the field the next 3 Games including blowing a 20+ pt lead in Game 4
Great video. Really breaks it down. Nice work.
Even lebron couldnt get to the finals cause all I can remember was how good the celtic defense is kobe got shut down and im a kobe he learned to pass the other 2 finals and hes teammate grew
nono momo Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen joined the Celtics in 2008.
In 2011, if you have Lebron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh all in their prime, you can't double team anyone, you just can't.
@newagepun Well if Kobe's 81 point game was so easy to do then why couldn't Jordan do that vs some easier teams? The same Raptors team that Kobe got 81 vs in 05-06 also held Kobe to his lowest game of the season...11 points. Fact= Most of Kobe's shots in that 81 point game came from jumpshots while in Jordans highest scoring games he got mostly easy layups or really short jumpers that were uncontested. As far as you saying theres only 3 good 3 defensive teams now then I lol at you.
In today's NBA, Jordan would've scored 50-60 points every single night.
@LakersPlayoffs
Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau was the defensive coordinator for BOTH the '08 Celtics and 90s Knicks.
When asked to compare both defenses, he said the following:
"Right now I'd say the [New York] teams were [better]. They were [much more] aggressive and [physical] because at that time, you were [allowed] to [play] much more [physical]. And we had [greater size]."
-- Tom Thibodeau: "Tom Thibodeau Q & A", by Kevin Pelton; basketballpspectus . com, Mar 25, 2008
So now the Lakers know how the Kings felt in 2002.
Im seeing alot of phantam fouls on Kobe. I think he was lucky if anything. Dont forget the Kings series😂😂😂
Nice video, the team with the most financial contributions to the NBA usually wins and that is a fact. David Stern orders the refs to make calls or no-calls on certain plays against certain teams based on money.
The refs don't cause you to blow a giant lead at halftime at home or get your ass handed to you by nearly 40 points in the deciding game. The Celtics deserved that 08 title man.
That is not a zone
@LakersPlayoffs hey dude you should check out something called the jordan rules. it was a defense made by the pistons where they would consistently triple team jordan in the paint and clobber him every time he came off a pick or screen. i respect other people's opinions and im not a blind fanboy but if you think jordan had it easier you don't really know basketball.
This stiff said Jordan played against man to man defense and short defenders...man f*ck his opinion! I say that because there is a such thing as a stupid opinion and his was just that
@newagepun Lol no they didn't lol. Kobe made a lot of tough shots in the 81 point game and I'm sorry buddy your buddy MJ can't hit half of the tough shots Kobe can. Most teams are average defense now days which yes the average defense now days is a lot better than the average defense back then. But the best teams at defense are like you said Spurs, Celtics, Thunder and Ones like Houston Rockets with Shane battier, The Chicago Bulls, The Miami Heat, and many more.
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Someone finally speaks the truth!!! Jordan faced more "physical" defenses, Kobe faced much better defenses. This Celtic defense was an all time great defense. Jordan never faced a defense as great as the 08 Celtics.
you obviously saw the only 2 jordan vs defense vids on youtube,just like i did,but i got to say,this defense looks just as tough as jordan vs sonics in 96.
this is what MJ had to face his whole career, and still averaged over 30 ppg a season...
I put the the blame on Phil. It was Jackson's duty to change the attack against zone defense. Everybody knows ball hogging and zone defense don't get along together, and it doesn't matter who you are, Jordan, James, Wade, Rose, or Kobe. You might get lucky a few times, most of the times you will flop, unless you pass...
The 3 second rule is routinely called on the Lakers though!
I love how Jordan suposedly played only 1on1 basketball. Its not like the Detroit Pistons and their "Jordan rule" didnt exist :D
this leads to the idea of fixing finals. 2002 wcf, 2008 finals, 2010 finals are the most obvious examples, but i'm sure there's more.
@charliebell01 zone was illegal but a lot of teams got away with it, you do realize that mj lit up both paul pierce and KG while they defended him when he was 38-40 years old and they still couldnt contain him.
Calling 90's basketball a "watered down era" is moronic. It was the golden age where players had become more athletic than the 80's players, on average, yet still had the benefit of good coaching in high school and college. The guys today are great athletes but have poor skills. 90's players had it all, more than any other generation of NBA players.
ok the best way to judge this vid is like this, take jordan out of the equation, kobe was dealing with a tough, physical, sometimes illegal defence, the defence was tough, you saw how many fouls they committed and got away with, and the hard fouls they were committing, just forget about jordan being mentioned and hes got a point
Awesome video!
this is not a zone defense. its just GREAT help defense whenever he gets inside, and an occasional double team thrown in to add to the confusion. gotta love that boston d.
My apologies for my immaturity then, maybe this defense was on par as the defense of the Sonic's and I wasn't giving it enough credit. But my opinion is that the defense on Jordan was still more physical
Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever. Compare lebron and kobe if you want, but Michael jordan is in his own league. The Nba can't touch him.
Just because Kobe faced a better defense than Jordan did, that does not make him better, people please understand that! Nowhere in the video did it say Kobe was better. I can imagine Jordan finding a way to beat this defense had he played in this era.
The Lakers are simply put a MONSTER of a team this year... the scariest part is... they are even better than last year when they got their ring.
Sorry but Jordan was double and triple teamed the majority of his career.
and is still obviously the greatest player EVER!
The NBA didn't care about pure basketball enthusiasts. It's not enough of them to sell tickets. So they had to give players more freedom to move. To build excitement for the new generation that only cares about immediate scoring. Regardless of all my points one fact can't be disputed. Players of past and present, legends, coaches, commentators, and pure basketball enthusiasts have spoken. You can be a Kobe fan or MJ fan but the vote is in and there is nothing you can do or say about it. MJ GOAT.
What did they change in 05??? Do you think handchecking has that big of a difference??? Kobe shoots a low % because he takes many times extremly difficult shots and he has always been the shooter at the end of the shotclock
Big of a difference?
Answer: 81 pts &
Literally, Single handedly taking out the mavs by the 3rd qtr by himself.
For example.
I never saw a defense like that. And I've seen the 89-90 bad boys, riley's knicks, jordan's bulls, 01 lakers, 04 pistons, 05 spurs...
"i touched it last, coach."
Illegal defense was changed to make the game speedier and less difficult to understand because many fans didn't know why it was called. The three second violation exists, but it rarely gets called, why would it be any different in the NBA Finals?
You said Jordan didn't face defensive teams like the 08 celtics, and the 04 pistons. What are you implying?
Second place is not a victory. Celtics beat the lakers, and nothings else matters, no mater what they did, fauls, illegal screens or whatever. They won the championship.
How about this........................ Pass the ball and make the "zone" roate. Elementry stuff for basketball players. You use words like force and must in the video, nobody made Kobe shoot over double and triple teams.....pass!!!
Thank you the annoying Kobetard fans don't even have the passion for playing basketball Utep stack offense made teams not even want to play zone against them
I agree with that to an extent but your forgetting some other defenders
in his era. But damn, I am glad you mentioned Dumars. It tells me you
know what your saying.
Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing, Mourning, Mutombo, Smits. This Era Shaq, Ming, Howard, Duncan. Other than Howard being a freak of nature the 90's had more centers that had way more skill. Even Shaq and Duncan couldn't win until the end of the Bull's dominance.
The defense in this series was rough but saying that this eras defense as a whole is tougher than jordan's is a joke. Jackson said it himself, jordan would put up 45 per game today.
"Wait thats funny, i thought he didn't have to deal with hand checking???" LOL stupid kobe haters just love to hate bro.
This reminds me of the bay boys pistons' "Jordan rule". Except the jordan rule was a lot tougher. As you see Kobe still could make it to the post. MJ barely escaped from the perimeter every time they played. Not to mention the game was a lot more physical back then.
How different would this be if this was 06 Kobe, or even Afro Kobe?
they arent holding, just keeping their hand there long enough so that kobe is forced to go through it
@rocksclo David Stern said (today) that Kobe is very comparable to MJ.
Putting your hands on the offensive player isnt cheating bruh. Pierce putting kobe off balance with a sleight touch is just smart play... LA fans are the biggest whiners jesus...
thanks dude for sharing this video. now i understand that kobe could not handle on this type of defense.
This guy says Jordan never faced defenses like the the 04 Pistons or the 08 Celtics. Well the 2010 Celtics defense is arguably just as good as they were in 08. And the 05 and 06 Pistons were also very good defensively. The 05 pistons didn't repeat but did make it to the Finals and took the Spurs to game 7. Wade outperformed Kobe against the 2010 Celtics and outplayed Kobe's 04 Finals performance twice against the 05 and 06 Pistons in the ECF. Kobe also had the far better team for both series.
@oliverrainman ....Tom Thibodeau Made That Defense SPECIFICALLY For Phil Jackson's Triangle Offense...That's Why The Celtics Were Playing Kobe So Tough....The Defense Was Made Strictly To Limit His Offense...
A. I never said anything about there not being hand checking. The NBA is a physical game no matter what the rules are. I dont know who you are talking to that is saying the NBA isn't physical, but it's just not as physical as it was in Jordan's era. Also don't complain about Kobe not getting foul calls, because at that point he was the most protected player in the League by a long shot. They played LeBron way more physically last season and he killed them
Not the first time, for any team. Think 2001-02 Sacramento Kings. No point complaining, there's no such thing as "this team should have", because they didn't. Same goes for like 10+ other teams in the past 20-25 years. NBA officiating is generally shit. Live with it.
dude its called the Jordan Rules which was a lot tougher than Celtic Defense in Fact the Celtic defense is very similar to the Sonic he faced in 96 and i think he won that year as well as the Finals MVP that year.
@T82486
CBS Sportsline has kept shot charts of made FGs since the rules changed. It catalogs players FGAs misses from inside & outside 15 ft, as well as the FT line.
According to their 2010 shot chart, look where these guys scored the MAJORITY of their seasonal pts from:
Tyriq Evans: 714 pts on dunks & layups (82% of his total pts)
yep it definately was...also jordan went up against that kind of D more frequently.
I miss when Kobe was this good
Be realistic now... they are both good. It's impossible to say which is better.
This video doesn't show illegal ANYTHING. It just showed (to me) that Celtics had great defense and Kobe would rather take the spotlight and aim for the shot rather than pass it to Odom or Gasol who is "20 feet away"
I'm just hatin'. Been drinking too much of that stuff.
Wait, is the guy in the video trying to say Kobe was better than Jordan?
Magic vs Kobe is a whole other debate. Message me if you want to go down that road, lol.
All of your so called "basketball fans" obvously know nothing about the game. I have been a proud NBA spectator for over 30 years and im telling you this right now, the game is much more difficult to play in then it was even a decade ago. Michael Jordan did face easier defenses on a nightly basis. Go watch a classic hoops game and you will realize quickly how much faster, stronger, smarter all these players are in todays game.
And im niether a Bryant or Jordan fan
@notoriousshrey First Wizard year he shot 41%, 44 eFG% 21ppg. Nothing else matters.
There is only one reason to be given, he got old. Tons of players get knee surgeries and had to end their careers and performance stats much sooner. Malone was still hooping strongly at 40.
2008 nba playoffs all full games where have???please please please
check sonics denfense on Jordan and you will see how tough the 90s defense was. I like the Celtics defense and they are really solid, but the Sonics defense was really physical, Jordan couldn't even get the ball without shaking off the defender 5 times
The suns had NO Amare and played very little defense. Lakers had Odom, who avg 20-11-5 for that series, Kwame who avg 13 and 7 for that series, and Luke Walton who avg 12 and 6 for the series. Lakers were doing well and all Kobe had to do was close the deal. Instead, he refused to shoot the ball in game 7 to prove how much his team needed him. Clearly, this shows Kobe is one of the worst leaders of all time. Jordan, Magic or Bird would NEVER stop shooting to prove a point.
Jordan would have averaged 40 a game without hand-checking. Can you imagine Jordan not figuring it out against the Celtics??? Jordan would have done something to win, not lose. If the Celtics don't have KG and Perk blow out their knees it's an easy three peat. If Rasheed Wallace got in enough shape to give 5 more quality minutes in game 7, it's over and Kobe has his ring against...the Magic??? Instead, Kobe goes 6-24 in GAME SEVEN!!! and the Lakers get 25 free throws in 15 minutes...fubar