So you want solar and a home storage battery
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- This video is an introduction to buying solar and a home storage battery. We’re going to look at the shoulds, the musts and other things to consider and look out for when researching solar and / or a home storage battery. I’ll answer those questions around what size system / battery should I get, how long will it last and so on. The information is primarily UK based however many of the themes and requirements are relevant no matter where in the world you live.
00:00 Intro
02:29 Needs verse wants
04:47 Annual electricity usage
06:58 Mid to long term energy changes
07:35 Is this a forever home?
08:09 Routine / lifestyle
09:20 Budget
09:34 Available space
11:05 Direction of location
12:35 Shading
13:51 Roof elevation
14:40 Size is everything
15:14 Solar calculators
16:50 Electricity infrastructure
19:04 G98 and G99 forms
20:23 Will I make my money back
21:19 Planning permission
22:10 Maintenance
23:05 Home battery benefits
25:22 SEG
26:44 Size of battery
28:03 Battery run time
28:42 Are all batteries equal
31:40 Summary
Links and resources mentioned in the video;
www.planningportal.co.uk/
Interactive planning portal for England.
solcast.com
Global Solar resource assessment and forecasting data for irradiance and PV power
www.google.com/get/sunroof
USA based solar savings estimator, powered by Google Earth imagery
www.transitioncambridge.org/w...
Transition Cambridge aims to help Cambridge make the transition to ways of life that are more resilient in the face of rising energy prices and a changing climate. PV energy FAQs
www.gov.uk/government/statist...
Downloadable data which contains information on the cost per kW of solar PV installed by month.
energysavingtrust.org.uk/gran...
Energy Saving Trust for financial support for renewables
www.pvfitcalculator.energysav...
This tool provides estimates for fuel bill saving and financial payments you may receive by installing a solar PV system
www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/how...
A guide to calculating solar panel size
www.solarguide.co.uk/roof-sui...
Is my roof suitable for solar panels
www.expertsure.com/uk/home/ho...
How many solar panels do you need
www.expertsure.com/uk/home/to...
UK solar panel calculator
🔴 Octopus Energy £100 (shared) referral link: share.octopus.energy/sky-gupp...
🔴 Setup:
4.0kW solar array, installed Sept 2011
- 3.8kW SMA Sunny Boy inverter
2.34kW solar array, installed Oct 2019
- 2.2kW SolareEdge inverter
Tesla Powerwall 2 (Gateway 1), installed Dec 2018
Kona 64kWh EV, delivered 1st July 2019
Tesla Model 3 AWD Performance, delivered 28th Sept 2019
myenergi eddi, installed July 2019
myenergi zappi v1, installed Dec 2018
myenergi harvi x 2
myenergi hub
myenergi iOS app
Kaifa MA120 SMETS2 smart meter
Based in Rushden, East Midlands, UK
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✅ Recommended playlists:
Tesla Powerwall 2, solar and EVs
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Don't forget to check out the description area for the links and resources I used to pull this video together. Ta!
I think you got it quite covered, John,. Thank you for your advice.
Thanks for watching
Very good video John. I am investigating solar and a AC battery and your points and issues raised have moved me much farther forward. I hold a degree in physics and engineering and your video has given me several points and angles I had not yet factored in. Thank you. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for watching David. Glad it added some additional things to consider and evaluate.
You've got fantastic presentation skills. Every time I felt the urge to write a comment about a particular point, you went and then addressed that comment just as I was starting to type. It's a very comprehensive overview on Solar PV + Batteries that you've made.
My own system is coming up to six months of production. I've been making videos about it, and always trying to answer the economic questions with a good dollop of data analysis. But my presentation skills, they've got a long way to go to get up to your standards.
Thanks for watching and I appreciate your compliment. My early videos are very hard to watch, even for me! For me it take practise and time to make a good video and present it well. It's a whole new skill set that needs to be developed and improved upon. Some people are naturals, most of us are not. Hence the practise.
It's worth saying my background is adult training and development. I'm therefore used to researching, collating and developing content for presentations - that certainly helps.
6 months of production does give you a good set of figures to refer to. I always find it interesting to look at past performance and data to see the changes month to month and once you have more data, year to year.
Thanks for the excellent video John, well structured and informative. My sole offering is the location of the inverter. Ours was installed in the loft, I guess it seemed handily close to the panels. The downsides (which we hadn't considered) were that it was difficult to get to and service, and it was operating in very hot conditions in the summer. The outcome was that it failed after about 5 years, had a repair which lasted a year and then died. We decided to relocate it to the cool of our garage next to the meter and related electrical devices. It now purrs happily next to the Powerwall.
Thanks for watching Jeff and glad it was informative.
That's great point on the inverter, as I type I'm thinking both ours are in the loft! At least they are on the coolest wall. But yes, servicing and checking is a drama.
@@johntisbury they cheaped out on the cost of wire..wire is much cheaper than inverters .move them.
Thank you John for a well presented video, as usual plenty of good info 👍
Thanks Paul for watching.
This is one of the best videos I have seen on solar and storage , and I've seen quite a few over the last 6 weeks .
Thank you Robin, that's good of you to watch and comment on the video. Makes doing these types of videos worthwhile, so much appreciated.
love the quality of the production here, Good job John
Thank you, that makes me happy. Thanks for watching.
Detailed and brilliant video. Very helpful, thank you. Plenty of food for thought😀
Thanks for watching, glad it was helpful to you. 😊
Thanks, you made an enormous effort in producing this video, very informative.
Thanks John, yes this one did take a while to research, film, edit and produce. Glad it was helpful.
Best explanation for a beginner that I’ve come across, thank you.
Thanks Andy, glad it was useful for you.
Subbed! Very informative and with these upcoming energy prices hiking up, videos like this are more relevant + I love that you also photography and I may find useful tips from you to help me further photoshop skills along with my amateur photography
Thanks for the sub, much appreciated. Totally, the increase in the energy price cap has focused many people's attention to becoming more self reliant on energy generation. My channel started out just doing photography and videography, however because of what I shoot it was not RUclips friendly content! Over the years the channel has leant more towards renewables and energy efficiency improvements at home. With the odd one or two photograph related videos.
Thanks John an excellent thought provoking video, answering those questions is very informative . We divert excess power from the solar panels into our hot water, probably more cost effective than a battery. Ours cost £300
Thanks for watching Terry, glad the questions were thought provoking.
What a great video for someone like me on the start of my journey into this world of solar etc. Very much appreciated 👍
Thanks Steve, glad it was useful to you. Appreciate you watching
Brillant best independent analysis
Thank you, glad it was objective
Thanks for the information mate!
No problem 👍
Thank you so much this really has been extremely usefull as we are in the process of ordering solar + battery
Great to hear, thank you. Good news on you getting solar and a battery. Good call.
I have both and the battery is by far the most cost effective part of the system. During the winter there will never be enough solar to make much difference to my bills (and during grey or wet summer days) so I charge my battery on 5p a KWh economy 7 type electricity. My battery is not large enough to last me all through a day unless we get a little sunshine. During the winter nights though.
Almost all of our electricity we buy in is at 5p not 15p as it would be without the battery. This is a major saving and makes the Solar panels repayment time effectively increase to close on 20 years! However buying a battery and no Solar adds 20% to the cost due to 20% VAT being added if no Solar purchased at the same time.
Good video, thought provoking and informative
Thank you Andrew
Great summary. Thank you
Thanks for watching
Awesome video, very helpful.
The house I am trying to buy at the moment is an end of terrace (3 triangular roof sections - 2 large, 1 small) that face East/West with the smaller one pointing South.
I've been told by work that we will be WFH at least until the "middle of next year" and then will likely be "flexible" after that.
Unfortunately this means my calculations simply aren't possible to work out until I move there, have a years worth of data (I planned on using my current house as a baseline) and then find out if we are WFH long term or if it is only maybe 1 day a week WFH.
This is a bit of a bummer as I planned on having an install done as part of my rewire when I first get the keys.
But this video is definitely my reference to go from when it comes to it!
Thanks Peter, good luck on the purchase, I hope it goes smoothly and quickly for you.
That's was really informative, many thanks 👍
Thank you, glad it was helpful.
Hi John,
I'm still researching and learning and the most annoying aspect for me with batteries is the lack of clarity about responsiveness. They all quote millisecond responses but that's for when it disconnects from the grid in a power cut and takes over and not the same response as you discussed with loads ramping up and down. There seems to be no openly available info on how quickly batteries / inverters respond to on grid demand change of a given size. Givenergy currently checks twice a second but doesn't tell us what it does after that check and how long it takes. It makes us believe its instant when it's not.
Does it matter? is the hardest question to answer for me. A tenth here or a tenth there doesn't cost much but our expectation is near zero consumption. Is near zero 1, 0.1 or 0.01? Every trigger pull or a garden tool or power washer or every thermostat activated device adds both undesired import and export potentially. Maybe we need a device that can keep us off grid for efficiency but switch to on grid when needed for export or extra demand🤔
If an off grid battery storage solution is instant why is the grid Integration so slow?
Then there's how fast you notice. If the device you use to monitor what's happening only updates every n sec like the Octopus Ihd then your view of what's happening is out of sync with reality.
I share your frustration on the lack of clarity and data around what is instant delivery or power and how much can it deliver. Once it's installed it's a little late to find out. Seems the best approach is to find customers who have taken the plunge and question them. It's not how it should be. There's still lots of misinformation and lack of clarity around home storage batteries.
I've recently only found out that the Tesla Powerwall 2 with the gateway 2 does not always go into a seamless backup to power the house in the event of a power outage. The reason; not all power outages are the same. How they manifest on the network can be very different and the gateway will sometimes not recognise the outage and take over seamlessly. It seems like with most things, the marketing blurb and the actual are not always the same.
@@johntisbury Yes, guys, we completely understand, please reasearch the C rate of charge and discharge. If a cell configuration is 0.5c discharge a 5000kwh will discharge 2500kwh consistant, then boost or jump up to say 1c discharge for 5 secords, 10 secods, for exaple a air compressor requires a sudden inrush current. A server battery backup, will flush All its power for 15 minutes in order to shut down correctly. Its all about how the discharge is configured.
Thanks Paul.
Hi John, do you know how a home battery affects your FIT payments.? We've had solar pv for over 8yrs and looking to have a home battery of 13.2kwh installed via a local government/council scheme.
Hi Nick, a home storage battery has no impact on your FiT payments. Fit are paid purely for solar generation rather than what you do with it.
Hi John I’m just starting on my Solar install and battery storage journey. Would it be fair to ask if you would recommend Stratford Energy (I saw they were involved with at least part of your installation)? or any other recommendations) I have a quote from Greenway Solar near MK and need comparisons. I am just down the road from you in Bedford.
Thanks Gary
Hi Gary
Yes Stratford Energy were very good, so too were JOJU Solar. I would recommend either. Great news on your journey, happy to chat if you want to know more.
Hi John, could I trouble you for an opinion please? Our yearly usage is 3,300kw, I've been quoted for 2 installations 1/ Huawei inverter and Huawei 5kw battery, Jinko Tiger N solar panels with optimisers total 4Kw, and 2/ Givenergy inverter and Givenergy 8.2kw battery with Jinko panels and optimisers total 4kw. Any thoughts on which system or would you recommend something different? Thanks!
Hi Mick, to be fair I'm not an expert on components and how one product / brand compares over the other. It's not something I find interesting or relevant to me. I'd suggest searching RUclips for those components and get a round view from end users. There will be pros and cons for every setup. More so the battery and inverter than the panels. Panels are panels, there's not too much between them.
Thanks John. Your comment on battery response time is valuable. Like you we have a glass kiln which is a heavy load, switching maybe every 8-30 seconds. Using an immersion diverter with a 30second data rate on the meter, and slow switching, can lead to very inefficient imports during kiln use. The calculation of resulting cost is complex. As I consider adding battery storage I need to understand battery response times better - they seem to be poorly published in specifications.
Thanks for watching Tony. We've found that our glass kilns will pull from the grid unless there's sufficient solar activity. Even the Powerwall is not quick enough to supply the power required for the rapidly switching kilns. We normally run the kilns overnight off-peak, or during the day if it's going to be sunny.
Tony, a bit more information for you as been doing some tests with the Powerwall. If it's set to Self-Powered mode it is quick enough to power the kiln and not pull from the grid when the kiln is on. My previous reply where I said it was not quick enough was when the Powerwall was set to Cost Saving mode which often means it will pull from the grid and save the battery power for the peak rate times, which makes sense.
@@johntisbury thanks John. That's interesting. Clearly the powerwall responds faster than my immersion diverter. I am looking at battery options now, and the response time seems to be rarely reported in data sheets. I will need to ask questions before a final decision.
My house has two incoming phases, the “normal” permanently connected equipment is on one. Night Storage Heaters on the other the Tarif is Economy 7. Can both phases be connected? If not, then the normal phase is probably the one Inwould connect to P.V. Panels. Am I correct in this choice?
Thanks for watching Mo. You would need to talk to an installer to get confirmation. I'm not an electric engineer it's not my area of expertise so I would be guessing which is probably not very helpful to you.
13:30 Not just microinverters are the solution for this, you can also get DC Load Optimisers. These do the same thing but still allow for the thin (high voltage) cabling of a string inverter, whereas microinverters may require heavier lower voltage cabling.
Thank you, that's good to know.
Are you sure you've got that right? Microinverters such as Enphase convert the DC from 1 or sometimes 2 PV panels to 230v AC there on the roof and therefore there is a Live, Neutral and Earth coming down from the roof illuminating the need for a "System" or "String" inverter. Whereas DC Optimisers such as Solar Edge help prevent the whole string from being affected as much by the shade falling on part of the string, but the panels are still DC connected and still need a "Systeme" or "String" inverter to centrally make the conversion from DC to AC and therefore the separate Positive and Negative cables for the string are provided.
@@barryhaeger4284 thank you Barry for adding this information.
Great video John ... I'm getting a solar PV and battery solution fitted hopefully. But I also use gas on a combi boiler, and wondered what electric heaters could be utilised by my solar arrays instead of using gas for water heating? I'd really like to use it for central heating as well as showers and DHW if possible.
Thank you, glad it was a useful video.
Great to hear about your solar and battery. You can use excess solar to heat your hot water which is what we do. However, you need somewhere to store it. A hot water cylinder is the traditional approach, before combi boilers took over. There are new options with products like like thermal stores; sunamp, ecocube and so on. Depending on the size of your array and energy usage you may find you have more than enough surplus solar in the summer to boost your hot water, but lack enough in the Autumn/ Winter. However, still more environmentally friendly than burning gas.
In the trade, keep the VOC voltage open circuit numbers per solar panel. 2 x MPPT 500v x 2
Didn't understand that. Can you explain please?
With regards to the storage battery location, I am concerned that it may get too hot in our loft during the summer and fail (as mentioned by another contributor here), Can the battery be installed on an outside wall instead?
That's a very good point. Plus they are heavy and could be a fire risk. Your installers may not be able to physically lift some batteries into the loft depending on which model you choose.
Yes some batteries are IP67 rated for outside placement. The Tesla Powerwall is one, there are others too. We have ours installed outside against our house wall with no detrimental effects.
What is the best way to heat your house , I have solar panels with an attached diverter to heat the hot water cylinder. In winter I have to rely on the gas boiler to heat the radiators ?
My setup is the same as yours, with the addition of a battery. Since making this I've been looking at heat pumps; air to air and air to water. Both offer much better efficiency and lower running costs than gas. However, as there's so many variables in every property around insulation levels, draughts, size of building, location and so on. The best approach as a starting point is to get a heat loss survey. That way you know exactly how much energy you lose and how bigger heating system you need to keep your house warm. Many installers just chuck in an oversized boiler which costs you in the long run in poor efficiency.
Very informative thank you.
Thanks for watching Ray.
I've had Solar Thermal for my hot water, have also had PV solar with battery installed.
Did ask a simple question if the battery works as a UPS & was told yes, then had a power cut and lost all power when I called they said the sales person never said it was or answered yes to the question.
So if you want to make sure it does get it in writting.
Sound advice Jeffery. The Tesla Powerwall will not guarantee to cut in on every power outage as not all outages are the same in terms of their behaviour. A slow reduction in voltage then nothing, or a short quick cut in power completely. Best to have a UPS for anything sensitive, home storage batteries are not UPS's really they are there to power the house in a power cut.
Hi just watched your video. Really rather well presented so thanks. Im interested to learn about off grid solar/ battery system. Ive watched lots of videos. Ive noticed some systems are old. Some are supperb i think but battery controllers and panels makes it a difficult area for a novice. I think it would have been useful to here your views on your system. But many thanks Colin
Thank you Colin. Off grid systems do seem to be a whole new level of complexity! Might be worth looking at narrowboat setups as they are off grid and the components are the same. Cruising the Cut did a video a short while ago about adding a rooftop solar panel and all the components that go with it.
Hi John, great video with lots of detail to digest. We are looking at a solar system as part of a council led initiative and have been quoted a 6 to 10 panel (subject to roof survey) and a 6.6 kWh battery. My question, as we have an online talk led by the council selected solar provider is, should we opt for an 8.8 kWh (largest battery offered) battery? The cost is not significant and pay back for the system is circa 19 years, so only about 1.5 yrs more with the smaller battery? We are considering a hybrid/electrical vehicle possibly in the future.
Hi, thanks for watching. As I mentioned in the video there are so many things to consider when deciding on solar and battery. The key thing is daily electricity usage, more important to understand winter usage than summer as the battery will be working harder in winter with less solar activity. Plus lifestyle. These are probably the two biggest factors impacting electricity usage. In short, if you are low users and out all day, then you probably don't need the biggest battery. However, if you are medium to high consumers of electricity then get the bigger battery. As I mentioned in the video, no-one ever said 'my PV system is too large, or my battery is too big'. If you can afford it, have the space then you are future proofing. In terms of car in the future, I'd seriously look at full electric over hybrid. Hybrid is a transitional technology and is really coming to the end of it's useful lifecycle. It's only popular at preset due to the mainstream car manufactures using it as a crutch to prop up their gas powered vehicles sales.
@@johntisbury Thanks for the prompt feedback John. Yes. Appreciate what you said. I'll have a look ref winter usage over summer.
Can you use tariff Control with battery? I e charge it when cheap spot price, typically during the night, and discharge it when expensive, typically 7-8 am and 5-7 pm, however it varies, so a simple scheduler wont do, tariff integration is necessary. On top of that, can you charge it when there is surplus solar, but give eventual charge of the EV priority? Perhaps set percentage for both? We have the Myenergi Eco-system and are considering adding A. Battery, B. Eddi. We currently charge the EV using Myenergi tariff Control + surplus solar during the day goes into the EV.
Thanks for watching. Some battery configurations allow that, the Tesla Powerwall does not have that integration. Octopus Intelligent which is a tariff control but currently only for Tesla car charging, not the Tesla Powerwall.
A very good talk I wish I had listen before I bought
Thank you for watching Henry, sorry to hear it was a hindsight moment for you. 😏
Hi John, good video. There is one other cheat which prevents a G99 application. I have a 6 kWr Solar Edge inverter fitted with a Modbus meter that limits the export to 3.68kW.
Thanks for watching Martin.
Yes good point on manually limiting export. Many inverters can be throttled back on export too.
Very good video thanks had solar before was great so went solar and battery at new home and ev it’s one year tomorrow! Got 5950+ kWh in first year and saved about £4000 in not buying so much energy from the grid and not buying fossil fuels to drive 15000 miles and using about 7000 kWh in the home . Well worth the money we think !
Thanks for watching Nickie and for your positive affirmation about solar and a home storage battery. They just make sense don't they. Especially if you have an EV too.
Great video. As you hinted at, batteries are not exactly cost effective just yet. Cheaper options maybe to use excess energy for heating water with an eddi, or only charging an EV from excess solar. If you are planning this for next 5-10 years, EV's will come into play more.
Thanks for watching Barrie, yes good points raised re using the excess solar for HW, EV charging and timescales. Thanks.
Excellent and informative video John - thank you. I am moving to a new build house soon. I have an Electric car and would like to go for solar in the new house. Should I look at getting the panels and battery soon after moving in (costs permitting) or should I leave it a year to see how much usage is before I can spec the size of the system?
Thanks for watching watching Graeme. I’d suggest going for as large as you can as you plan to have a home battery and already have an EV. The more you can be self-sustaining the better. Assuming the new house is a longterm proposition it’s worth getting as much as you can. If you find you export too much then you can move to an export tariff to get paid for it.
Better to get the installation before the house is complete then save on the VAT.
@@jimtianlong how does that save the VAT? Just in the middle of purchasing our forever home, and buying from friends so we have access before completion. Thanks
@@JB-tc8el Sorry, I mean that you don't have to pay VAT if its a new-build.
Thanks for your reply. I was thinking, could you install an electric boiler and if sized correctly using a home battery and Agile tariff would that be a way forward. Expensive certainly, but cheaper than installing air source pump as our house is old and there is a limit to the amount of effective insulation you can install
An electric boiler will only ever be 100% efficient, eg: 1 unit in, 1 unit out so 1:1. A heat pump on average will be 300% efficient. 1 unit in, 3 units out. Yes an electric boiler will be cheaper than gas to run, however a heat pump will be even cheaper to run.
Insulation should be a priory no matter what heat source you are using. The cheapest energy is the energy you don't use.
Hi John could I use a solar panel and battery system to add heating to the house by charging the battery during the day and using the stored energy of the battery to
operate an electric heater in the evening
Thanks for you video very informative thanks Nick
Hi Nick, yes you could however it really depends on the amount of solar you have to be able to charge the battery in the winter when you will need the heat. Plus the size of the battery verse the wattage of the electric heater. It's possible to do, it just needs to be balanced size wise. Work out the wattage of the heater and how long you will run it for. That will give you the electric consumption which will define the size of battery. Then you can work out the size of solar required to charge the battery. You may find that during the winter you will have more consistent results by charging the battery off peak with cheap overnight electricity and using that in the early evening to heat the house.
@@johntisbury Thanks John - 1 can get 10 panels on the roof and the heater would be around 1 to 2 kw with around 4 to 5 hours use in the evening
I feel you will struggle in the winter to provide enough energy just from solar. With 10 panels x 400w = 4kW. Worse case your heater would be 5hrs x 2kW = 10kWh. On some gloomy winter days a 4kW array would produce less than 1kWh over the day. You would need to rely on the battery charging using off-peak electricity to fill it. Your battery will need to be a minimum of 10kW ideally, more is better.
Thanks for your reply. I suppose from your reply insulation is the key. I have insulated the roof well , the problem is the external walls where I have uninsulated old cavities and very loath to use either pump or external wall insulated so really stuck between a rock and a hard place
I am like most at a crossroads even though I have solar panels. We are both retired
Can I ask? How did you find your solar installer? I'm in the East Mids and interested to talk to installers, but I'm amazed to be finding it relatively niche still when Googling for installers? (especially finding more independent ones that don't look like they'd just send a "salesman" round to sell you what they'd most profit from)
Hi Cliff, I've used 3 different installers with our installations. JOJU Solar for our Tesla Powerwall and zappi and Stratford Energy for our second array. The company that did our initial array 11 years ago is no longer trading.
I found JOJU solar at the very first Fully Charged Live show at Silverstone in 2018. Stratford Energy I found on Twitter as they tweet about their recent installs. They looked neat, tidy and professional done.
Did you consider the giveenergy hybrid offer- it seems to offer more for less and I am currently looking at my options
Hi Roy, I've had my Tesla Powerwall since Dec 2018, GiveEnergy were'nt offering that product then.
It's certainly a good looking product and allows you to control charging and discharging, which is a plus point over the Powerwall. I'm not sure on it's round trip efficiency circa 80% or the allowable maximum discharge of the battery, stated 80% will go to 90% but voids the warranty.
When I go up into my loft I see the underside of the roof tiles - no felt etc. The multiple layers of insulation on the floor of the loft are caked in dust that has blown in. Will I need to get a new roof with felt etc under the tiles before mounting solar panels?
Hi Andrew, I’m no solar installer however the lack of roof felt should not impede installation as the panels hang from the rafters or battens. If the roof is in good shape it should be fine. However if not then it’s an ideal time to replace the roof as scaffolding will be up and your panels will last 25+ years. You don’t want to have to replace the roof in 10 years time.
@@johntisbury Thanks John, The roof is over 80 years old and apart from replacing the lead in the valleys has not needed any other maintenance. I was expecting the panels to be fixed to the rafters and expected this might compromise the roof where the tiles are removed to accommodate the fixings. 🤔
@@AndrewLumsden the hangers for the panels are fitted under the tiles so no tiles are removed in the final installation. We have had two installations and there are no missing tiles. Again, best check with your chosen solar installer as they can advise better than me.
Hi John, thanks for this incredibly useful video! I must admit I am struggling with regards to the battery conundrum. I only recently moved into my house and have an air source pump, which chews up electricity for heating. I thought a battery might help in the winter but I would imagine all the solar generation will be used just supporting the pump and none would be able to be stored in the battery. Conversely the battery might not be needed for many hours of the day during summer. Unless I can find an off-peak tariff to charge the battery in the winter, would you think the battery may be redundant? Thanks for your thoughts. It is so difficult to get properly impartial advice!
Thanks for watching. 100% agree with your thoughts.
Battery will be great for winter time providing you get a tariff that allows you to charge it off peak to support your peak rates. As you know depending on the size, installation and efficiency an ASHP can use lots of juice during a day. A battery will certainly help cushion the impact on electricity usage. The days when it's cool and sunny can still be good generators of solar, so it is possible to charge a battery in winter.
The battery in summer will still be useful between sun down and sun up, so don't discount it for those times of the day. We run our house on battery, in April we were 85% self-powered for the month on just under 1 megawatts of house usage. The battery added about 30% to that self-charge percentage.
You don't mention the size of your solar array or the size of the battery you are considering. However, going large will always reap benefits in the long term IMHO.
Thanks so much John. I am still getting quotes. As I am not clear on my actual annual usage I’ll have to guesstimate from March and April. Some of the colder days consumed over 20 kW, so at worst I’d say I’d need 7500kW over the year. I have been given quotes on various bits of kit. Researching just leaves me boggle-eyed as feedback reviews are not consistent! Are there and brands I should avoid? (Or perhaps you can’t say on this forum…..) One company is suggesting an 8.855kW system (Trina vertex) with solis and solax inverters (not sure why two, and why different companies) with 2 x 5.8 solax batteries. Another 6kW REC 405 system with 10kW solar edge storage… Any advice gratefully received.
I’ve not done it before, but is it easy to shop around for suppliers? I understood it might mean a change to the meter which sounds expensive!
Firstly if you change suppliers there's no cost to have a meter swapped. You need a SMETS2 smart meter, which is all they fit now anyway to be able to benefit from smart tariffs from energy companies like Octopus Energy.
The trouble with looking at reviews is you need to also understand the use case for the person using the product. If you don't know their energy usage, lifestyle, number of people in the house, etc etc then you cannot compare.
You will often find different manufacturers for solar invertors and batteries, very few do both. So nothing to worry about there. A 6kW solar array is a good size for most homes, as I said before if you can afford to go larger then do. Generation is the primary goal then storage of the excess secondary. Many people go with the Tesla Powerwall battery or the modular Pylontech batteries. The Pylontech batteries you can add to add a later date if you find you need more without too much cost involved.
The solar and battery market is getting very active with new manufacturers entering the market and new products appearing almost weekly it seems. The main component that needs to careful consideration is the battery. Like in the video I mentioned the key things to compare.1. Storage capacity. 2. How much usable energy can be taken from the battery, eg maximum amount of discharge. Some are 100% others are 75%. 3. What is the ramp up rate, e.g. how quickly can it deliver the power to the home. Turn on a high powered appliance like an oven or electric hob, can it deliver 5kW instantly like the Tesla Powerwall, or does it ramp up slowly over 30 seconds to deliver the power. This costs you as you end up pulling from the grid to make up the shortfall. Same with charging, what is the maximum charge rate it can take? Again the Tesla Powerwall can charge at 5kW from the solar. 4. Can the battery run off grid in a power cut?
Fab. Thank you. Great questions to ask the companies. One thing I am definitely learning is to not rush into this. Thanks again, really appreciated.
How do you measure ramping up speed of the batteries? How is it rated? how do I look for this information in the data sheets?
It's a great question. Ramp up speed is measured in response time in seconds and the amount of kW it can supply. For example the Tesla Powerwall 2 can deliver 5kW instantly with no delays. Other batteries take up to 20 seconds to respond and max out at 3.6kW. This information is often not on the data sheets. You need to specifically ask on forums, suppliers, installers etc.
@@johntisbury Thanks for your quick reply! It's a shame they don't have this information on data sheets but I suppose there are alot of nuances that might effect it
Might be worth mentioning the most cost effective way of storing energy is to use a solar diverter in a hot water tank.
Good call Chris, overlooked that little gem of a product.
Or into a BEV.
We store our excess power as hot water and its very effective
That's a good point, we use a solar iboost. £200 off eBay two years ago and a simple installation. It has sent over 2000 kW to the hot water tank over that time. We're completely self sufficient for h/w in summer. Even sunny days in January we've had 1.5 kW in the tank (same as having immersion on for half an hour). Ideally I'd like a battery to compliment our PV but finding it hard to justify costs. Maybe when 30p plus unit costs come in it might concentrate the mind somewhat!
Cheapest rates i have find are 35p per unit now - this is why im looking into battery storage
A very comprehensive video, John, outlining all the things that need to be considered. Yes, it's not simple ... and every installation should be unique as households will differ in many of those aspects. Finding a good installer, who will take time to work out with you what you really need for your unique situation, is important.
Your units used around the 27:50 mark and the words "Watts per hour" weren't right! You obviously meant to convey the idea of "consuming 1000 watts *for* an hour". The legend "10hrs x 1000W/h = 10kW" should have been "10hrs x 1000W = 10kWh" accompanied by the conclusion "you'll need a 10 kilowatt hour battery pack". Why did someone choose to make the rate unit [(kilo)watt] the basis and the energy quantity unit (Kilowatt hour) the more complicated compound??? We're so much more used to the rate units looking more complicated, as in m/s, miles per hour, kg/min. The "knot" was an ancient measure of a vessel's speed (rate) but no-one decided to measure distance (quantity) in "knot hours" !!
Thanks Nic for watching good point on finding a good installer - so important.
Ah yes, thank you! I always seem to stumble on these things, appreciated you clarifying and correcting.
@@johntisbury you're a talented artist ... leave it to us scientists to be pedantic about units!
An informative video. Have had 3.9 Solar edge solar for 4 years only now able to see how much we exporting summer. Just about to get an EV so assume that this would be the best intial battery to store excessive daytime energy in and not add a battery until I serif that reduces export to the grid ( still getting fit payments.
Will also consider an EDDI for hot water as some dash most and about and it would be a shame to waste our solar
Thanks for watching Colin, glad it was useful.
The EV will certainly suck up any surplus solar providing you have a compatible EV charger that detects surplus solar.
The eddi is a great choice for hot water and acts very fast. If you go down the route of the zappi car charger then you will have an app that can control both and you can set priorities between the two and decide on the amount of surplus you divert to each.
Thanks John, a very informative and thought provoking video for everyone thinking about solar
My only question is if you don’t yet have an EV but are considering one in the future, how much extra do you need to add onto your normal annual home power usage to help with covering home changing....?
Thank you glad you found it so.
That's a million dollar question! How many miles per year do you anticipate doing? Do you stay overnight with work, so less need to charge at home? Is home charging your only option, e.g are there chargers at work?
The link here is a great resource which will help you to calculate the worst case scenario. e.g. all your annual mileage being charged at home ev-database.uk/cheatsheet/energy-consumption-electric-car
example: A Tesla Model 3 covering 10,000 miles per year at 235Wh/mile = 2,350kWh of juice.
Do you think that looking at your previous year electric usage is a good idea, I know for certain that our usage has risen dramatically, especially with extra people in the home, luckily I’ve been measuring usage for the past 4 years and can see the extra use. So remember your last years use may be slightly different to your usage going forward, although indeed your use maybe going up with more home working moving forward!
Also people with restriction on space have to think about location of all the equipment especially with a battery pack. You can probably tell il looking to possibly jump in with both feet :)
That's a good question. I feel there's still value looking at the last 12 months usage and taking into consideration and future changes. Totally agree that for many last year's usage maybe way off kilter with current usage due to change in circumstances.
Good point about considering location for a battery beforehand if you have space restrictions.
Thanks John. Perfect video for anyone looking at all the considerations in planning a solar installation. Agree with one of the other comments about the use of diverters for hot water and EV charging, although I think you did mention about future proofing when sizing up the number & power rating of panels. Certainly electric vehicles are going to be a consideration for a lot of people as they evolve further and become more affordable.
Thank you. Agree about future proofing, there may be many people adding to their existing arrays as EVs become more popular and affordable.
@@johntisbury we are a few weeks into our new solar installation and so far it’s been a bit of a mixed bag. Certainly the weather conditions have played a part both positive and negative. We’ve have a couple of exceptional days of solar production and others that have had very little. On top of that, I’m still in discussions with our installer about the way the batteries are performing. Charging seems quite slow and channeling energy into them appears to be throttled back. But they discharge quickly at a much higher rate. For example on a sunny day, they seem to charge at a steady 1.1kw, but can discharge at over 3.5kw. This isn’t ideal as the sun might not last all day and I want them to charge up as quickly as possible. We also seem to be exporting an awful lot of what we generate on a sunny day - I’ll post some figures on your end of month video. We do need a hot water diverter, and hopefully should be here soon, which will soak up some, but it’s frustrating to see the energy I’m producing disappearing into the grid. Still early days though.
I'm considering using a 5kW hybrid off-grid inverter which will handle up to 4kW of solar panel power and a 48 volt battery up to 24kWh. Although it can be connected to the grid, the inverter does not export power to the grid and if connected to the grid it consumes grid power when needed either by the battery or the house. Therefore as far as the grid is concerned, the system behaves purely as a consumer and generally as a lower power consumer than prior to installing the system.
Under these circumstances:
1. Can I avoid the need to use an MCS certified installer by using any competent and approved electrician for the grid and consumer unit connection supplemented by DIY for the other items? The inverter, which will be the only item connected directly to the grid, is itself fully certified.
2. Because I won’t be exporting to the grid, can I avoid the need to submit a G98 or apply for G99 approval?
3. Am I still bound by the 3.68 kW inverter limit?
If you touch the grid in whatever form that takes, you need to approval from the DNO.
I am. Pleased you are chatting about this exciting subject. I have a 8kw system split into 2 tranergy 4 kw inverters and a Growatt 5kw storage battery with sp2000 controller. My system is 6 years old now so I have got a lot of knowledge with my system which was supplied and fitted by a very reptable company for £12000.my pay back or return will be another 5 years. When I chat about my system I really advise people to stay clear of battery's and put that money into extra pannels to take into account poor light in winter months. I actually turn off my battery 1st November til end of march. My reason is that the 4 kw inverter which charges the battery will does not get the battery to 100% charge infact from my exsperiance many days it will reach 38% charge, so for me I would rather use what little production for my home hence why I say get more pannels. I relise there are many new gadgets and battery's but its the cost which makes it not economical. I say this as I am on my third battery and now its out of warranty so when this fails if I decide to replace it at a cost of £2000, then my pay back will increase another 4 years. Then one of the tranergy inverters failed in May. I am still waiting for a replacement under warranty. I actually purchased a used unit in atisipation that it would take months so I wod not loose production as now I use an ev. So when we chat about this subject I always say let the buyer beware. Make sure your investment is with a long standing company who will deal with failures. I infact do repairs on solar inverters and I can tell you they do fail, everything on a solar system has to be 100% and failures are frequent and some manufacturers are will only deal with your installer only which is great but if they have gone broke your stuck. Inverters are not cheap. Then you have to pay labour for the remidial work, soon your system starts to take much longer to pay back, specially if your system fits was a low payback. I find it intresting because its normally the people who have more expendable income who opt for systems say like tesla and back up battery's, this circle of people would not dent there wallets if a repair was required, so really for Mr Mrs work ing class think hard about your investment. Electric Vehicles are grate in summer if you have a good solar system for sure. My take at the moment for Mr and Mrs working class who want to go to the LCT is to watch a channel 4 programme. Guy Martin's ev story. He really sums it up well. The other thing is if like me green is top Priority make sure you take into acvount that most families with 2 or more cars will struggle to charge cars with there current electricity supply, bear in mind boilers being replaced with heat pumps so your property max demand will we to much for 100amp cut outs. Homes will require upgrading to 3 phase to run everything on electric. So solar pannels are fantastic and the more surface area you have the better.
Thank you, you raise and highlight great points.
John I will say to date for UK your video presentation is the best I have seen to date. I would like to add something. I have been in contact with my DNO for my ev charger installs and heatpump. The public need to know that its important to, as this gives a good look at how your suppy deals with your new loads so it's very important to do this. I know of people who have added heavey loads without notification. I would like to add that I had to pay £390 for the previlage of having an 8 kw Solar system, my views on this was it's another tax, as being told that the DNO needed to upgrade out net work to take the extra electricity back into there system. What a load of crock. If anyone needs to add systems my advise is use a hybrid inverter and run lead acit battery's idealy 48vdc fork lift battery's then you can take this extra energy and use it without the need to inform the DNO. I am lucky I suppose as I do this using used hardware to keep costs down. Solar and wind are the future regardless of what they look like.
Interesting stuff especially the 3 phase part , i don't think many Green heretics and those in high places have thought about this ! I have Solar panels and was thinking about a storage battery but now have second thoughts. What about linking up an array of Lithium batteries ?
@@alansmith4267 each person's situation is different. It's worth investigating via a installer whether you need to upgrade to 3-phase. Many don't, some do, really does depend on the loads in your area which only the DNO will advise. You can still get battery storage and have the inverter limit the export to the grid to 3.6kW. That's what many people do rather than pay to upgrade to 3-phase.
sorry to bother, about battery capacity: 10 hrs*1000W=10kWh --> energy (kWh) storage capacity for this period (hrs) and power (1000W).
(Instead of the shown 10hrs*1000W/hr=10kW).
This differs from your systems off grid power inverter capacity (kW), you may need e.g. 3 kW for certain appliances.
I like the structured approach with which you highlight all aspects.
Good point Anton, I didn't make that clear enough. Thank you.
Hi, sorry to bother you I find your videos super interesting and have encouraged me to go electric. I’m in the process of purchasing a couple of Evs I currently have solar but am looking at batteries and an ev charger and am finding the whole situation rather overwhelming and struggling to get set up with octopus for a decent tariff that suits. Is rheee any suppliers or info help you could provide for a newbie. Many thanks
Thank you for watching and I'm pleased to hear my videos have helped you. It can certainly be a minefield, it's always the way with early adoption. Too many choices and a bewildering array of options with everyone pushing their own setup as being the best. I would 100% recommend Octopus Energy over any other supplier. They have a great range of intuitive tariffs, they listen to their customers and they are always innovating. They are not profit above all else unlike the other main players.
If you want a static fixed tariff then the Go tariff gives you 4 hours of off-peak charging to charge your EVs. This is the one I'm on. octopus.energy/smart/go/
I would also look at the Octopus Intelligent tariff which is ideal for EV owners, it's probably the cheaper in the long run. Intelligent works on time slots throughout the day, mostly overnight. It's automated, but takes a little more setting up and making sure everything works. It's not onerous or complicated, and Octopus will help you through the initial setup steps to setup a test charge to make sure you are working. After that you just plug in the car and forget it. You do need a compatible EV or car charger to work with Intelligent. The list can be found here, it's regularly updated with new EVs and chargers being added. octopus.energy/smart/intelligent-octopus/
The important thing is to make sure you have a smart meter (SMETS2 ideally) to get the best from these tariffs. If you haven't got one, then contact Octopus and they can arrange to install one.
One of the best car chargers is the myenergi zappi as it picks up surplus solar to charge your EVs. Currently it will also work with most of the Octopus tariffs apart from Intelligent, however that is in the pipeline and should be released very very soon we hear, end of May / June time. That would be my recommendation.
@@johntisbury can’t thank you enough for this. I was aiming for the intelligent tariff but it says Hyundai isn’t supported at the minute. And you can only use one car and I plan on having two like yourself. Great advice I will go with the 4 hour window for cheap charging and can hopefully get solar batteries also Tom make the most of these 4 hours. Thanks again and great content. Currently working my way through your other videos 👍
You can get a OHME charger which is compatible with all cars as it houses the software. However, it does not export excess solar into the cars, so for me it's a non starter. Today for example I've added 14kWh of solar excess into the EV. As ever it's a bit of a compromise. The Go tariff will work with your setup out of the box. Home storage batteries are a sensible option as it gives you more flexibility.
@@johntisbury I have opted for the hypervolt and plan on purchasing that tomorrow as I seen there various eco options for adding excess solar to the cars. They also seemed to get decent reviews. Then the search for the battery system will start. Looking forward to it all coming together and hoping to find some more key info in your videos over the next few days 🤞
I have have had 4.0kw of solar and a 13.5kwh Tesla Power Wall for a year and a half. In the first year I had less than 20 days where I used more power than my system produced and never more than three days in a row. My Power Wall doesn’t quite have energy capacity to leave the grid. I purchased a NG backup generator so if I lose the grid even without the sun I never lose power.
Thanks for watching, just 20 days is impressive.
Are you from the uk ? Matthew
@@dannyf5157 No California.
Great video as normal john I don't think there's anything I can add you seem to have covered everything looking forward to your monthly stats
Thanks Glyn for watching.
Me too, today was a brilliant day over 30kWh same tomorrow apparently!
We have our G99 Application in up in Scotland. Single Phase 10KW. We consumed 21,000Kwh last year. Air Source Heat pumps are a killer...
Blimey Darren, that's a lot of watts. As you say ASHP when it's cold suck the juice from the grid. Chris H (comment below) is finding his electric boiler consuming lots of power during January. Electric heating has a long way to go to equal the affordability of gas. Going to be difficult to wean people off it without more subsidies on electricity.
@@johntisbury Yeah, we have a split meter so we can see a different reading for the heat pump, the 21000 Kw Heat Pump accounted for 90% of the usage. It's very cheap in the Summer >18 degrees, but most homes don't have the heating on much anyway in the summer. They are certainly not cheap to run. 100% we will be investing in Eddie...
Is it possible to install just a battery without panels, and buy electricity only during the night and draw it off during the day?
Hi, yes it is. Many people do that. They sign up to a cheap overnight tariff, charge the battery overnight and use it to run the house during the day. Works well. Just need the battery sized to match your house usage.
@@johntisbury Thanks! I suppose the only two downsides of that are a) if they hike the night price up too much, and b) the grid goes off and I’d have no panels.
Electric prices will only ever go up, that's a given. Solar won't work in a power outage unless you are a) totally off grid in the first place (then you won't be affected by the power outage) or b). you purchase a Tesla Powerwall 2 which is designed to run the house when the grid goes off. Plus it can still be charged from solar during the power outage. However, if you don't have that battery backup solution then a powercut will also render your panels unless.
In the longterm, home generation of your own power is the best safeguard. If you have frequent power outages then a battery back up solution is a sensible option.
Great video. I wish Government would make it compulsory for all new builds to have solar and batteries. Also they would be better offering incentives for batteries rather than heat pumps as so much surplus energy overnight
Thank Gareth, I believe the building regs now require solar, I could be wrong. However, when they install it's the bare minimum and the cheapest.
The government are slow to react, Rishi is announcing low cost loans for heat pumps in the next few days I understand. But yes, they could do more.
@@johntisbury load of new builds near me going up, sadly on GreenBelt and no solar on those but they will have EV access points. Ps bug bear of mine they’re not chargers they’re in the car. 🤣
HP’s again should be fitted to New Builds as they can get the everything right, too much disruption to existing properties and infrastructure
The construction industry and building regs do need a shake up to bring them up to speed with the route we are taking in the energy market. High thermal efficiency, insulation and HP ready should be standard.
Developers have to have a certain percentage of their new developments tested for air tightness with a blower door test. Guess what, they get to choose which ones to test. Those get special treatment, the rest in the development not so much. At least EV charging points have to be installed, small steps.
Has anyone managed to clarify the situation if you want, for example a 4.7kw panel array with an 8.2kw battery? I've been told that you have to apply for special permission from the Grid - a G99 and extra hassle, told that you don't, told that you can go up to 4.5kw without extra permissions - just the usual G98, told that if you have a 3.6kw inverter you don't need any special permission? Help anyone?
Hi Mick, anything over 3.68kW needs DNO approval and a system design as per my video = G99.
=
@@johntisbury I see that thanks, I watched the appropriate bits in the video but you mention that having a battery makes a difference but I can't find what difference it makes? If I have a 4.7kw solar array with an 8kw battery and the inverter capped at 3.6kw, will thi qualify for pre-approval?
The battery can export too, so it’s added to the solar array total.
@@johntisbury A bit baffled John, isn't the battery also controlled by the inverter and therefore subject to the 3.6kw cap? If not, then a 2.5kw panel array with a 3Kw would be over the limit? I'm just learning about this to decide on a set-up so you help is very appreciated!
Exactly. Don’t get hung up on trying to get under the 3.68kW. You need a system that meets your needs now and in the future. A good installer will deal with the paperwork and the DNO and recommend a system to suit your needs. Suggest getting 2/3 quotes.
any calculators that consider inclusion of batteries?
There are, not tried any so can’t vouch for them. great-home.co.uk/solar-export-guarantee-seg-calculator/
What's your best guess? Do you see V2G (vehicle to grid) becoming mainstream soon, making home storage batteries redundant?
I don't see that happening anytime soon Thomas. At present the only charging adapter capable of two way charging is the Chademo, which is almost defunct in Europe/UK/USA. Only Japan is it still prevalent. Which means in the UK older Nissan Leaf's have the ability to V2G.
It will happen, but not for a long while 5 - 10 years and even then I doubt V2G will replace home storage batteries. It will end up as a product choice; a battery or a car.
DNO
= Distribution Network Operator.
Excellent introduction for folk though
Thumbs Up John
Thanks on both counts.
Interesting video, but its not what i'm looking for as this is for a house (which i understand) but i'm trying to get power to my shed on a allotment
Thanks Mart, have a search for off-grid solutions. There's plenty of options that will suit that need.
@@johntisbury thanks i will thank you
Do you have to notify the National grid if you fit 8 panels? If I was to fit them DIY.
It would be your local DNO you notify, not National Grid. If you are installing off grid then no need to inform. If you are connecting to your house’s electric supply then yes you do.
@@johntisbury I have 4 panels. Max 700w haven’t told them about it. I’d be surprised if they don’t know as I have smart meters that are telling me I’m feeding to the grid.
@@mickbmx two different organisations at play here.
Smart meters are owned by the energy suppliers, e.g. who you pay your bills to. Consumption/export dealt with by your supplier. Connection to the grid is property of your DNO, they own upstream of meter.
@@johntisbury I’ll try contacting them.
@@johntisbury seems like on the form they emailed they have to be signed off by someone qualified which im not. So solar isnt for the DIYer.
John I have watched many presentation while I am considering my next venture. Yours was the beast. I have 20 solar panels installed 10 years ago. They have produced an average of 3.6KWh. I am considering adding a storage battery ,8.2 Kwh give energy is top of my selection list, I am on economy 7 with outfox the market. My wife and I are over 75 and according to my supplier they estimate my next year electric energy needs are 7000 KWh. Any advice on the size of storage system that I am planning on installing will be very appreciated. Thank You
Thank you for watching and I'm glad you found it useful.
Every household is different, I therefore can't recommend or advise I'm afraid. There are no shortcuts to finding out the size of battery system you need. You should have access to all the data you need, if not then you need to collect it. The crux of the video was help you identify the information you need to be able to make an informed decision on the size of battery storage system you need.
My only suggestion is go for the biggest you can afford, in the long term it will pay off as people's usage is only likely to increase rather than decrease.
@@johntisbury Thank You for your reply. I like a copy of your schematic please that shows 2 sets of solar panels and battery connection. I could not and not for lack of trying. Thank you n advance.
@@labiedr you can download it from my Dropbox here: www.dropbox.com/s/aqypp8y1tu196ug/scematic%20of%20solar%20and%20powerwall%20installation.jpg?dl=0
@@johntisbury Thank you for the schematic. I have 3.8 Kwh panels installed 10 years ago in November. An installer proposed to add 1.78KWh (6 panels). Also to include 10.4 KW Fox ESS battery. My concern is will adding the solar panels effect my FIT arrangement. Installer sales man states it will not. Both old and new panels will feed the battery with any excess energy. I looked at your schematic carefully. Did you have a FIT from your first system? When you added the new panels did they impact your FIT?
Thank You Very much John for all the information that you made public. I live in south Northampton, so that makes us neighbours :-)
Make sure they fit a second separate generation meter so your first array remains separate. I have FiT on my original array and it has not been affected.
Im expecting a rejection on my G99 application for a 17kw install plus two solar batteries on a single phase. either that or a silly amount to upgrade to three phase...
Thank you for watching.
Yes that would seem a likely outcome. If a 3-phase upgrade is the outcome, don't just take the DNO's price, there are certified independent contractors who may do the work at a cheaper price.
Which Battery is the best value Weco or Huawei.
The best battery is the one that meets your needs. Sorry if this is a glib reply, if you've watched this video and considered the criteria talked about then you'd not be asking this question.
@@johntisbury
Let me explain. I have two quotes for my needs. Same spec except for the battery. One is 3500 pounds( Huawei) the other is. 1800 pounds (Waco) . The question , is the Huawei battery worth the money
@@LiamReynolds55 whilst price can be a deciding factor it needs to be taken into consideration with other factors (all of which I've covered in this video).
What is the storage capacity of each battery?
What is the maximum usable capacity?
What is the maximum kWh it will deliver at a time.
What is the ramp up rate to deliver that power.
All these things specifications will allow you understand the difference between the two products. Then you can decide which one is right for your circumstances.
I can't advise on which battery is better for you. I don't know how much energy you use, how many people are in your home, your lifestyle / routine, do you have solar, how much excess you have and so on. Do you current export power, how much and what time of day. and so on.
Hi John, very informative thanks! My question is this: our consumption last year was 3,298kw (£606.23 bill), we can see that a 4kw installation would provide around 3,400kw - yet the Solar Energy Calculator only shows a saving of £297, where am I getting confused? Thanks, Mick.
Thanks for watching Mick. Have a look at the assumptions (top right) on the final page of the calculator. It is an estimator rather than a bang on the nail price point as there's too many variables even with the data. Your annual bill will also include VAT and the Standing Charge. The estimator is using the standard unit rate of 20.06p/kWh so that may also be different to what you are currently paying.
@@johntisbury Thanks for the quick reply, I'll have a look.
I have a Tesla 4kw solar with a Power Wall. I used ~3000kwh last year and produced ~7500kwh. I am on the central coast of California so we get more sunshine than most. These are real world numbers from last year.
I started totally green on this, ie no idea, just a bit of research, I built my home battery out of deep cell 12 volt batteries, li ked up into a 24vlot set up, then built up the renogy 100 watt panels 2 at a time, see how long it lasts, I run my home office off this set up, 8 battery's links with 6 sola panels, my business has 3 computers, printers etc a fan and led lights, the office is open 7 hours a day, this set up works for less than a grand..... My next step is to run a small electrical motor off two of the panels, this will turn a disc with 20 neoridium magnetics on, this will heat our water free of charge, giving us showers and central heating saving us 2k a Yr in oil
This is brilliant Phill, thanks for sharing. Just goes to show what you can do without spending a fortune. Glad to hear it's worked out well for you and your office.
The first premise starts off in my estimation completely wrong. It has you investigating your energy usage in one year based on prior usage. I would like solar to enhance my quality of life so the issue is "how much energy do I need to operate, what I would like to have for a more comfortable existence". It means I already do not use the air conditioner as it results in higher expense and negative contribution to the environment. What I would LIKE to is to run for example the air conditioners/HVAC regularly even 24/7 knowing the energy from the sun makes that relatively inexpensive. Thus I would run the air conditioners much more and my living environment would be much more comfortable and not so hot thus raising my quality of life. (Where I live people hang out at the Malls to cool off) While it may seem crazy but I want solar to be able to INCREASE my energy usage without added cost or adding to pollution. So assessing my energy "needs" having been frugal in its usage for the sake of my energy bill and the environment is the wrong metrics. Assess my energy usage from an extravagant prodigious use of the suns free power. Aside from equipment wear ostensibly the energy from the sun is pretty much free. So why be frugal with it? I know it sounds ridiculous but every ounce of energy we consume generally revolves around quality of life. Otherwise we'd all live in tents by candle power. So,,,,build me a system where the power from the sun brings me comforts without sacrifice.
Thanks Doug, I think your point is valid and I believe covered by my question;
Q. Do you see any medium or long term changes to your electricity usage?
@@johntisbury Yes, but it's not increasing my energy usage in the medium to long term it would be from day one. Ironically although I live in a hot climate my pool is covered and generally too cold. If energy were "free" I might put in a pool heater. Huge energy user. I might run HVAC in my guest house even though it's only used a few hours a day. Again if energy were "free" my usage would possibly quadruple over my current usage. The assumption "normally" is to reduce cost on current usage. But I'd rather be flagrant with usage as long as it was free and non polluting. Therefor last years consumption data is irrelevant. Calculations on max usage for crazy use is what I would want determined. I'm looking mow at a complete system. My advisor keeps asking me which air conditioners I run and for how long. My goal? All 24/7. Lights, appliances, pumps, etc no concern for limited usage. He looks at me and says, you don't get it". I look back and say, "YOU don't get it! 😁 Thus we have a disconnect and go round and round. But, your presentation was none the less pretty thorough other than starting from min instead of max. 😉 Cheers,
DNO: Distribution Network Operator, I thought
Well spotted, yes indeed.
I think they need another option detached 1905 Victorian house 9100 kWh a year no ev or battery but has solar. 5 open fireplaces, house is like a colander.
We are still very good a building leaky boxes here in the UK.
good hi level intro
Thanks Andy
Boy I wish I only used 5000 kw/h a year. For our house that's missing a zero.
That's quite a difference in power usage. We are use differing amounts of power, confirming that there's no one solution that fits all people's needs. it's a case by case basis.
👍👍
Thanks Keith
Surely the DNO don't have a say in what you can put on your land/roof or what size battery you have if your not feeding excess back into the grid. All this does is increase the cost to the punter. A couple of grand system turns out to be a 5 grand one fitted. 10 years guarentee mean nothing. I think most of us have had a rough deal with these 10 year affairs. . Im lucky that I would do my own so I wouldn't be paying to get one installed
I'd be adding wind as well if I can. It's always windy up in the north so it would make sense to have a small generator as well. If allowed that is. I think come April it's 54% rise then more and more folk will be looking into this and companies will be springing up all over the place making a killing. self certification is a joke and leads to sud standard workmanship in a lot of cases. It will only get worse the energy crisis so this kind of thing will be a must. Good information through. 👍
Thanks for watching Paul. If your premise is connected to the grid then the DNO have a say, hence the forms that the installer has to complete to state the output of the devices being installed in order to get your system certified.
Good point on wind power. It needs a large installation to make any noticeable dent on house generation. This comes with high installation costs, planning permission etc etc. I had not included wind generation as the video was just about solar and home storage battery. If I'd have covered wind too it would have been over an hour long and as most people only watch 50% of any RUclips video it would not make sense to make it as one episode.
The home generation market has already seen a massive rise in enquiries and orders. Like with any home improvement, multiple quotes, recommendations, reviews help to make the buying process more robust. If you just choose on price then yes, you may fall foul of having corners cut.
Cheers John. Well if that's the case then the DNO will limit a lot of installations that are big enough to lose them money. That's disappointing that they can control you own efforts to be more responsible for your electric . That's a shame
it's double edge sword. The DNOs will want to protect their infrastructure. New residential builds mainly have 3-phase now, so there's less risk and more tolerance. Older properties on single phase run the risk of melting cables if they all have solar and are exporting. A lack of investment in the infrastructure means the caps are put in place.
Jeezzus... I have 3 Ev's and use 12 mega watts year!!!
Thanks for watching. You certainly make the dial spin on your meter!
The figures I quoted are for UK and an average home with no EV or air conditioning.
I'm 3 minutes in, and the video hasn't even started yet...
The video has chapters so you can skip about if you want to Erik. Intro ends at 2:29.
I desperately wanted to get some info on this topic but part way through the third minute of waffling self indulgent introduction I had to slit my own wrists from utter boredom. Do you know the meaning of TLDR? Get to the point. Maybe limit yourself to ten minutes?
Not desperate enough it would seem.