Can you run your house on a battery? Tesla Powerwall 2 (Founders Series) & Tesla Backup Gateway 2
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
- This episode of the Fully Charged Show is a follow-up to our hugely popular episode about the Tesla Powerwall 2 domestic storage battery that Robert Llewellyn had installed in his house:
• Tesla Powerwall 2 dome...
The most common questions in the comment section for that video were: “What happens in a power cut/power outage?” & "Can you run your house off a battery?"
With the help of Mark Kerr, Head Electrician of the installers Joju Solar, and the new ‘Tesla Backup Gateway 2,ʼ Robert gets to test this exact situation on his original (white) Tesla home battery, the Tesla Powerwall 2, and also the shiny new addition that heʼs been given for free through the Tesla referral code scheme, the (Signature Red) Tesla Founders Series Powerwall 2.
Donʼt worry: As Robert makes clear, none of the Patreon donations have gone to paying for any of this new kit!
Robert speaks to Dr Chris Jardine of Joju Solar to learn more about how it works, the benefits of this home battery backup, grid storage technology and how it can really reap benefits especially if you have renewable energy. Even homes without solar PV can save money via off-peak electricity tariffs whilst also helping to reduce the reliance on the “dirtiest, most expensive” electricity that generally has to be generated during peak times in the day. Peak shaving using a battery, basically!
For more information about Joju Solar please visit: www.jojusolar.co.uk/tesla-pow...
Dr. Chris explains the 3-phase supply questions from the comments:
"The grid operators look at the worst possible case for export in their calculations. They look at 5.5kW of solar being produced, with 10kW of power from the batteries, and no loads, and see if the grid can handle this 15.5kW of export (in this case they found it couldn't on 1-phase). In real life, you wouldn’t see the solar producing its maximum and the batteries fully discharging at the same time, so the grid operators are being very cautious here. Indeed the batteries are designed to discharge such that no electricity goes back to the grid! The grid connection regulations were initially set up for back-up generators; if Robert had a 15kW diesel generator in his home these rules would make sense. But they do seem a bit dated to work for modern solar/battery systems."
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Shot by Nick Poole nickpoolecreator.com, Ben Bruton-Cox @brutoncox, and Stuart Lanceley @slanceley
Edited by Stuart Lanceley @slanceley
Music: 'Glitz' by Ray Davies (PRS) on Audio Network.
Many thanks to Andy Mewes for the additional screen recording footage!
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In response to your questions about the requirement for 3-phase electricity supply, Dr. Chris gave his thoughts:
"The grid operators look at the worst possible case for export in their calculations. They look at 5.5kW of solar being produced, with 10kW of power from the batteries, and no loads, and see if the grid can handle this 15.5kW of export (in this case they found it couldn't on 1-phase). In real life, you wouldn’t see the solar producing its maximum and the batteries fully discharging at the same time, so the grid operators are being very cautious here. Indeed the batteries are designed to discharge such that no electricity goes back to the grid! The grid connection regulations were initially set up for back-up generators; if Robert had a 15kW diesel generator in his home these rules would make sense. But they do seem a bit dated to work for modern solar/battery systems."
Looks like you should have had a restrictor on export put in place instead of upgrading to 3 phase
@@winnie-the-poohahaha4428 We tried that one!
i would hav sub if the conversation wasent so boring /but sub- titel wass intresting tho click bait ?
Agree. But it may be that this Powerwall is 3 phase unit. Perhaps Richard will tell us
Single phase can easily handle 40kwh. They make it hard as possible to hook up to the grid. We aren't allowed solar or batteries in East Tennessee at all. If you want solar, you have to unhook from public utilities and run totally off the grid or separate systems that aren't connected at all.
I like this guy. He's so articulate and logical and clear. Sometimes too much technical talk can lose me, but not this time. Brilliant stuff.
Made in England.
You're right. Usually he's a bit of a rubbery plastic kind of smeghead but in this show I think he's doing quite all right.
@@ProFettMoHaMett Llewellyn is a Welsh surname, so his DNA is Welsh. Just because he was born in a stable (England) does not make him a horse.
@@ProFettMoHaMett all the thieves are from there also. Hurray.
Paul Dunne That’s not necessarily true, but I like the sentiment.
Missed opportunity to have the first powerwall signed by the Fully Charged team
There's a certain irony to having to upgrade your property to three phase in order to not use any electricity from the grid!
If you dont understand electrics yes
@@niconesta8566 The irony still exists regardless of the physics. I do actually work with three phase on a regular basis. 400amp via powerlock, though it used to be a busbar when I started... so yeah, you could say I have more of an understanding than most.
My thoughts exactly! Why is it we stray farther away from making solar available to the masses?the ROI on something like this has to be ludicrous and quite amusing to your utility.So whatever efforts were made by your neighbors to level the playing field you manage to tilt it again with labor,permiting,material fees and their respective markups from you utility provider.So much for free energy!
It is only a problem for those who want to be self sufficient in electricity generation while still would like the idea of being connected to the grid.
Take the bloody house completely off grid and nobody cares!
@@TsLeng Yup, exactly!
My PW2 was installed in December 2018, 9 years after our solar panels were installed. Our panels are great, but we ended up only 40% self-powered. Our aim and hope was that the powerwall would enable us to increase to 80% self-powered, and it has been very successful, and we are now almost 90% self-powered.
Great episode, once again Chris Gardine from Joju is a great explainer.
Personally, as a long time FC viewer, I find these sort of videos much more interesting than the cars. EV's are almost getting old news now. All the major manufacturers are committed to them, infastrue rollout is happening at pace and their mass adoption is a matter of when not if. Home energy and the implementation of the sort of technology in this video is the new frontier now. There's so many possibilities and the impacts will be profound in terms of how we generate, use and pay for electricity not to mention the networks that distribute it. Great work, more videos like this please.
eV s aRe gEtTiNg oLd nEwS, where the hell do you come from?, 2050?
@@debadityasaha1684 They are old news here, no one cares and sees them as toys more than anything else.
About 30% of CO2 is produced by transport systems, and 30% CO2 is produced by buildings (heating system).
Batteries and Energy Storage is the major breakthrough in reducing CO2 in the atmosphere, and to help stop global warming.
That is why both EVs and (regenerative) Electricity Storage is so important. Elon knew why he went into this business, and why taking over SolarCity to build batteries for cars, buildings, and electricy grids was so important. That is what the Giga Factories are for. Thank you Elon for waking up the world, and competing with the rest of the Automobile Industry. He is even building GigaFactory 4 here in Germany! Fantastic.
@@Mordalo it is very difficult for you to survive with that kind of brain damage. My condolences
@@debadityasaha1684 Says the genius that has no clue of what he speaks. Why is that people like you can't deal with simple truths. EVs are not valid alternatives yet. End of story. Neither is solar and wind. Why do you think Germany and other countries in the EU are going back to coal? The entire AGW/CC is a proven hoax. You just don't want to believe it as you are pathological.
I have seen many videos, and this one is the best I have seen simply because it responds to many questions most people interested in those technologies would ask themselves. Good job!
As someone who lives in a 3-phase house, I can tell you this raises lots of questions.
For domestic wiring, each phase is normally a completely separate circuit, so presumably you have one powerwall on phase A, one on phase B, and nothing on phase C, so in a powercut anything connected to phase C will stop working. Each powerwall will only drive loads on the relevant phase, so when one is empty, everything on that powerwall dies, right?. Which means a lot of planning to make sure your freezer stays on in a powercut, etc....
Also, if the Zappi is now wired as a 3-phase device and connected to all 3 phases, then it too will stop working in a powercut because only 2 of the phases are powered, which otherwise sounds pretty scary from a phase balancing point of view.
Is that how the house is wired, or have Tesla got something really clever that somehow magically combines the phases????
No, it's exactly what you said. This is the only way possible.
Thanks for this and all your work on electric stuff. I am working on changing my company to electric in a big way. We do Landscaping and over the year we have stopped using 2-stroke oil and petrol for our lawnmores and strimmers to battery. It's not easy and it's not cheap but it's good and I see improvements that were not expected. Were adding a 6kw pv system and batteries of over 10kw. We plan to add more but need 3phase and more money so it's in time. We will be getting pv of about 30kw and a electric van leaving us with just the ride on lawnmore on diesel. But that looks to be 2 years away.
Just wanted to show you that your helping me change as will as others me thinks.
Thanks again
Garrett Fox in Ireland
Wonderful to hear and inspiring, thank you for posting. The sooner the sound of petrol leaf blowers becomes a thing of the past the better. :)
Sparks: does a nice tidy job-trunking, well clipped cables, SWA etc.
Electrical network operator: Sticks lumps of chipboard & plywood on wall, surface wires meter and main fuses...
typical double standards of utilities, you have to be 'gold-plated', they 'minimal'.
Thanks for the video. One thing, prices are NOT coming down, they are only going 1 way. If you have solar you should aim to eventually have a battery with it.
Dr Chris Jardine is a hell of a guest to have. Such crystal clear explanaton! Bring him back ASAP!
Finally something about the house.
I mean, can you please do more videos about House Solar PV systems ( the new technologies, and the optimization of using PV systems ).
I have done by myself PV System of my house ( project, purchase and the installation), but here in France we're quite behind in technologies innovation ( I do miss my life in London ).
The world of PV System is changing quite rapidly, so it'll be great if you will keep covering PV House/Industrial Systems the innovations and the latest news.
Best regards from France
I agree George I'd like to see more information about alternative electric heating systems as this is the next big challenge to eliminate fossil fuels?
We have a Fronius Solar Battery (for 3 years now) and it not only can charge with direct DC (ie. efficient) from the panels - including all that power that would normally be clipped by the utility company limiting inverter production - but it can power the house over three phases quite happily... even if the grid goes down. The 'backup gateway' in the Fronius system is simply the Fronius inverter... it's much less hardware (and neater) than that Tesla setup! I have a battery, inverter and just my standard switchboard. No other boxes. I can't believe how much hardware is on that garage wall!
E3dc pro Series 😉
Love seeing Kryten all happy about his new toys
instead of getting ripped off by power companies when selling the over spill to the grid. woudnt it be great if you could pass it onto nextdoor.
Maybe someday a true power GRID would do exactly that. It would reduce the load on the overall system if it was only transporting power through neighborhoods.
David Bunney technology is advancing and the energy companies have ignored technology for too long. Now it’s running away from them and they must change or be left behind in history.
That's why generating more power then your own usage is not recommended. You just install the amount of panels you need for your own.
You probably could. Run a quality power line between your homes - do it properly just don't tell the council or the power company. F***' em.
@@77gravity after going though the bush fires in Australia many homes did not have power for 2 months. I would have loved to have been able to pass some on the power I produced from my 6.3 kva PV system to my neighbours . Learnt a real lesson on how dependant we are on those grid connections. Do it properly and F%#k em
Dr. Chris Jardine is an exceptionally erudite explainer of things esoteric and complicated. Well done, Doctor Jardine. Robert Llewellyn, your website is always interesting, thank you.
Plot twist, Robert gets sued for forging a signature.
He can sue Tesla for not delivering on what it promised. Court rules Elon must visit the garage to sign the powerwall.
Quick! change it to "Elon MusT sign here"!!
@@davidwebb4904 Appears suing Musk is pointless because no matter how much evidence is against him, he'll still some how win.
further plot twist Elon make stupid comments on twitter. get sued for libel in london and loses..
@@TheStevenWhiting he has more lawyers than you can afford.
It's hard to believe that I've been waiting almost 50 years for this. I saw my first electric car show in...believe it or not...1963. Then during the 70's, watched a lot of residential photovoltaic installations go up. But the cars were lead-acid batteries, and the pv installations were woefully inept. So it only took a few wars and half a century.
Good on you Robert, the work you do is FANTASTIC!
Dr. Jardine did a great job of clearly explaining the features, improvements, and gotchas of the powerwall system.
Also did not properly explain everything. Dr. Chris Jardine was incorrect on his single phase description. Single phase has 2 hots and a neutral. If you are going to install this stuff you need to know about electricity I would think!
@@hellviper944 Nearly right: It's actually live, neutral and earth - and done depend upon the colour of the wires. Traditionally live used to be red, neutral was black and earth was green or bare wire. These days, conventionally, it can be live - brown, neutral - blue, and earth - yellow and green. And all these colours can be different in different countries and according to what your electrician had available at installation time (thinking of Italy for that last one).
Josh Laird No, he described it correctly for the U.K. Which is where Robert lives and his house is. :)
@@andygilbert1877 Sorry, but I think you will find you are all wrong. Now there is a strong claim. Single phase in Australia and England uses a single wire to a neutral that is 240 v potential. That neutral is earthed at the pole and at the home. There is no other source of voltage.
In North America, and I asked a line technician about this one, the supply to the house is called single phase because the transformer uses just one of the three phases out in the street. It then goes to a transformer that has a centre tapped winding creating the neutral. That is earthed at the pole and in the home. So between the neutral point and the two ends of this winding there is a PD of 120vac, and a difference between the two windings of 240vac because they are 180 degrees out of phase. So there are two phases in your home supplied by a single phase out in the street. Helpful much?
I live in rural Norfolk. We get cuts ~1-3 times a quarter. Last one was on Monday morning.
same here in rural Suffolk, but i do enjoy the power cuts. i love watching my kids struggle with no internet ! ha ha, i just pick up a book and put plenty of candles on and sit by the wood burner. lovely ! take care all !
ESCAPING THE MATRIX FOR GOOD
Evil fool! 😉
We live on the east coast too. Power dropouts are quite common. I have several small UPS backups to protect sensitive computer/servers etc from these small power interruptions.
Best show on RUclips. Really informative and fantastic production.
Really impressive set up and very well explained...also very neat installation from the guys 🙂👍
Yes you can. Mine works amazingly well. Not even a flicker of a light bulb and power stays on. It works SOOOOO well.
shame there isn't an instant switchover, to maintain computer equipment.
@@ProfSimonHolland that's what UPS is for.
It comes down to the technicalities of switching 300w Vs 30KW.
@@ProfSimonHolland Why not plug your computer into a separate UPS?
Professor Simon Holland I have a powerwall with backup gateway and my power is completely seemless in backup operation. Computers, clocks, router all continue uninterrupted.
I don’t know why his went off, only thing I can think is that it is something to do with it being 3 phase, but I can’t see why that should make any difference.
Professor Simon Holland I have a powerwall with backup gateway and my power is completely seemless in backup operation. Computers, clocks, router all continue uninterrupted.
I don’t know why his went off, only thing I can think is that it is something to do with it being 3 phase, but I can’t see why that should make any difference.
Great episode! The guests spoke very clearly and concise. Every question that popped into my head while watching this (such as, can you still charge from solar when the mains power is out) was answered which is also great. More of these house intergration videos please!
I’m a student at university and these powerwall videos are so so so helpful for me to relate theory to applications. Thank you!
Great episode. I own from 2 years PW2 in Australia with the gateway and what surprises me in my if the grid goes off then the batter start to support home in milliseconds, so you will be not able to see it. There is no delay at all, so all home equipment run as normal. You do not need to set up 10 clocks on different stuff :-))).
"Switching to auxiliary power, sir".
Had my powerwall and gateway 2 a few months ago and was surprised to see how long your battery’s took over the grid, mine is instant ( maybe this is due to your 3 phase supply ) noticed a few people asking about cost my standard single phase house cost £8500 fully installed pw2 and gateway 2. I’m doing a 2020 cost analysis to work out how long it will cost to pay back in real life situations on my channel.
I've had my Powerwall2 & solar since Oct 2018. Southern England. We used virtually no grid electricity from 24th March to 24th Sept. House use for year was 9.9 kWh per day with grid use at 4.2 kWh per day so saved 64%. The battery provided 1160 kWh to the house. So at 14.5p/kWh saved me £168. Going to take a while to pay for itself! (Cost was £5600 I think).
Mine too. It switches instantly and the lights dim slightly. I’m not sure it is 3 phase or it is not set up correctly.
Chris Hill : Any chance of a link to your channel?
@@StephenBurch isnt it always cloudy in uk.. 64% thats a lot. Any place sunnier it's probably close to 100% then?
Dave Pinnell here is a link to the first of a few short videos about my circumstances before 2020 year, please ask any questions or if you want anymore information
ruclips.net/video/G2aJYjnlL3A/видео.html
What an amazing setup can see some new builds having solar and battery storage as standard in years to come.
I'm an electrician and this is an impressive setup i would like to work on. Also the quality of installation work seems exceptional. 👍
Not to sound arrogant but the installation as long as normal German standard is concerned is OK at best. Why. The bending of the cables you're able to see is not even close to being acceptable here.
I thought this is how it's done in developed world, India it would looks likes a spiders web
@@abdul9 I worked with Germans when I built my house (it's a German prefab), and you guys take the view that there are 2 ways to do anything 1) The German way 2) The wrong way. And guess what, you're not always correct ;-)
You guys are living in LA LA land the average citizen could not afford to have this put in their house, this is ridiculous quit smelling your own farts and come down and explained to the American people how we could do this at a reasonable cost
@@michaelmcmenzie6928 regardless standard's should always be high
I like this Dr Chris Jardine. Knowledgeable, communicates well, and seems completely free of bullshit or marketing hype.
That is also a really great system, especially when most energy utility feed-tarifs seriously blow hard for any kind of ROI.
Awesome episode, wish that backup gateway switch was faster seems like the velociraptors can get out in that down time.
It was painful to watch! Lights might flicker, he said!
If the UK version of the Tesla Backup Gateway (BUG) is the same as the USA version it will only have that long delay the first time. The gateway is learning.
The second and subsequent times it switches over will occur in milliseconds.
Here is Colorado I've had nine grid power outages in the last year. Most of them are are for only 5 minutes, but two were for two and three hours.
During all of them I didn't see my lights flicker and my TV, stereo receiver, and computers are not disturbed.
Filming the first test doesn't do it justice.
I was going to make the same comment, I have a powerwall with backup gateway and I've only known about any power cuts as the app has told me, no noticeable disruption to anything in the house.
The backup switch I have, I have to personally go and change. 🤣 at least he has an automatic switch... but I live in an area with abundant sunshine, so it is enough from the batteries to run the night. So totally off grid, except on rainy season.
@@RichardOzanne
I have had the exact same system installed at my house, and when the engineer switched off the grid power, my house lights didn't even flicker! Not sure why it took so long to switch over in this clip!
Awesome video Robert, thanks for a terrific explanation, best I’ve seen.
G’day from sunny, hot Brisbane - 33C here today with 5kW coming from my 6.5kW of solar, and of course one (small) A/C running, (mainly for reducing the humidity.)
We will still feed a lot to the grid even after charging our Model 3 back up to about 65%, which is where I keep it if we’re not doing a big trip.
Love your juicy lumpy organic goodness!
funny thing! I've watched so much and didn't realize I wasn't a subscriber like I was on other channels and "yes" I enabled the bell too. As an EV driver and lover I'm pulling purging my debt to get the Tesla solar panels and Battery for 100% home usage. Keep up the great work and energy guys!
SMart Export Guarantee??? SMEG?????? How Appropriate lol.
SMEG, ma?
@@chansonkun7989 Red Dwarf. Watch it.
I'm just binging my way through RD on Netflix atm :) NICE Reference!
Colin Connelly 😂
Other countries are already doing it how far behind is England
brilliant...you took us through all the main points.....well done production / edit team.
What a beauty of an electrical installation, top sparks ⚡️
That a Tesla breaker switch is perfect. Awesome setup you got there now.
Merry Christmas to everyone at Fully Charged, thank you for making such a fantastic show!
Happy Christmas!
What a great show. Can't believe I did not find it sooner!
One day I'll have this in my house ! Looking forward to running my house on our own electricity.
Elon Musk will have to make a service call and put his signature on it.
Elon Musk will have to make a service call and put Robert's signature on it!
get tagging him
Lyndon Rive (CEO SolarCity, and Elons Cousin) signed my system ... sky-solaranlagen.de/solarcity-tesla-aus-usa-zu-besuch-2/
3-Phase, Tesla Powerwall 1 System which I designed and had built 3 years ago - the first in Europe. Here is proof ...
Solar Energy Film | m.ruclips.net/video/VXW8MJ1lVH4/видео.html .. filmed by Tesla Energy Europe in 2016.
That was amazing. Dr. Chris is a genius. Thank you for another superb episode.
Tesla are the genius - The Dr is 'just' clever enough to understand them
I never heard of a Tesla Powerwall before watching this video. Thanks for the post..
Solar with battery storage, every home and business here in the desert southwest should have this!
Michael Mara sorry, most of us don’t want it. Why don’t u do it and forget about the rest of us doing your fantasy. We’re not interested
@@mikecastellon4545 Mine is still under construction. It already produces 50% of my power and that number will go up again soon.
cost of the battery is a 12 year payback time for a 10 year life spam, the carbon emissions from building and manufacturing the battery take 8-9 years to offset, if your not a heavy electricity user that could blow out to 10-11 years, so we have established there's no economic reason to have the battery, no environmental reason, if you live off grid then yes this is useful, your paying for the "feel good", if you want to save the world invest in hydrogen power generation.
@@SuperJohn12354 The use to have a hydrogen station in Cape Girardeau.......it blew up.
SuperJohn12354 it’s not an economic or environmental issue. It’s far more important than that. It’s about virtue signaling and showing your neighbors that u are actively saving the planet while they are busy destroying it. The geeks that install these are the usual suspects, sandal wearing ,ponytailed, treehugging, holier than thou, types that are more than willing to lose money in order to appear “green” and clean.
very informative! (far more than those "Look, there is a new e-car!"-videos)
In Perth, Australia, 6kW of panels generates 45kWh on a sunny summer's day. Eat your heart out.
In Phoenix AZ US (33.42 N Latitude) and according to my basic Solar Edge 7.3kW GT inverter, the 9.2kW of panels attached to it generated 62kWh & 41kWh respectively this past year on Summer/Winter Solstice day. Both days were cloudless. Cost to to self-install the system 3 years ago was $18K USD before government rebates/incentives and the system’s upfront cost will be completely recouped next year. Eat YOUR heart out 😉.
@@NoGasWelcomeAboard That is great. However, my 5kWh Solar Edge Inverter and 22 (6kWh) Solar Edge panels cost me only Au$6000 installed after government subsidies. Plus, I receive Au$0.07 for every kWh exported to the grid (which is about 36kWh per summer day and import about 9kWh from the grid at 28 cents per kWh), meaning that the system should ideally pay for itself in 5-6 years. For Au$18000 after government subsidies, I could potentially be generating 135kWh per day in summer and 45kWh on short, cloudy winter days, although I would then receive no feed-in-tariff due to it being an oversized system. Systems are however being developed locally, where I should be able to sell my surplus power to neighbors for potentially more than the current 7 cents per kWh paid by the grid operator.
Mark is very knowledgeable very exciting on the new tech
Thanks for sharing this! It's good to hear others' experiences. We are rural and have quite a few power cuts, which is why we chose the Tesla battery with our PV system. There have been 7 cuts since installation in September and the battery has had to provide an hour, in total, of backup power. We are computer dependent so continuity is important to us! Only once did we notice a cut happening, because an internal circuit tripped out. Usually the most warning is a flicker of the lights.
The other feature that I really like on the battery is 'Stormwatch', which automatically fills the battery ahead of an event like Storm Ciara or Dennis and does not discharge until the danger is over.
Although elements of the system can be installed outside, it is still rather large and will take up a lot of wall space. It is also not silent, so bear in mind when choosing a location. These are early days for storage, but batteries are sophisticated and worth considering if you have the space and the cash. (On the other hand, I've come across someone who uses old milk-float batteries for an off-grid life.)
Fantastic stuff, and very easy to follow. This setup will be the second thing I order after a Taycan turbo s with a lotto win
Spilled my coffee reading this! ahaha thanks mate!
9:16 Now I get why the solar inverters typically shut off in a power outage, and the importance of a physical relay interruptor. Never understood that before.
Even my small plugin solar system does that, no power on the pins when not plugged in or when the power is out. That safety is good. I can off course unplug the mc4 connector myself during poweroutage to connect a small battery to the solar panels to have some juice for my devices.
Your solar inverters also shut down if they detect the line voltage coming into your house being too high (say 252V instead of 240V). What was explained to me is that sometimes the linesmen need to work on a live distribution network but with limited Amps ... so yes they could get a small shock but not get fried. So they cut down the power being pushed into the grid and feed a "low power" 252V test 'signal' - I guess you can test for short circuits and leaks or whatever, but safely. Obviously they don't need a bunch of enthusiastic solar PV generation installations dumping huge amounts of power into what should be a 'test mode' grid when they work on it.
That was interesting and helpful. Thank you for posting this video.
Great Update, thanks Robert! :-)
Since I'm tenant of a souterrain appartment in an originally one family's home in southern Germany (remember: three phase connected :-) ), being lucky to get permission for an own off-grid PV, I'm burning for your PV series (and anything I can get hands on where- and whenever possible).
Building it single-handed I'm deep in all details, both the electrics and the crafts.
Therefore: Chapeau to your solasters!
My to be installed "hybrid inverter" (with the solar charger integrated) will guaranty my appliances running uninterrupted in case of missing solar input and empty batteries by switching back to the grid in 10 ms.
Advantage: The inverter does exactly what Tesla's backup gateway does - physically preventing any energy flowing *into* the grid.
Unfortunatly, the German law doesn't accept this as proof for "off-grid", instructing these facilities to be registered both at the authorities and the local network operator (who would install a no-return electric meter for your mentioned protective reasons). Since there is no way of detecting such facilities, it's used anyway in those occasions, without registration. ;-)
Disadvantages: As semi-off-grid plant I'll loose any power that couldn't be used locally (home electricity, EV, hot water etc.). And I don't have the money for an electric car yet. Will follow next asap.
Secondly, with the official legal status in mind, no solaster or electrician would take the risk of being punished for breaking a law (although no single one has been punished until now).
This is the reason for my diy project.
Another thought to the batteries: In combination with my (2nd hand) 1.5 kWp solar array, my 3 Pylontech US2000+ battery modules (in summary 7.2 kWh, providing 6.6 kWh useful per cycle) cover about 50% of my yearly electricity consumption (with feeding-in they could theoretically cover 100%!). Economically a Powerwall won't pay off for the rest of my life, there are faint chances for that goal with my cheaper Chinese high quality LiFePO4 batteries.
Thanks again for sharing your update, hopefully my own wasn't too boring. :-)
Carry on, as subscriber I'll stay tuned!
100 years from now this will be the norm , everyone will have houses far better than this, a person to do this now starts the change that is inevitable!
Well Done and fairplay
You’ve got that right
The Back Up Gateway has been around since the Tesla Powerwall 2 came out, as I have had one since 2017, but im in Australia, so I presume the Backup Gateway 2 addresses whatever it was that was required for it to work in the UK. Anyway when the grid goes down our Powerwall kicks in instantly, I usually don't even notice.
you can get some that use relays or some that use motor driven hard switches, they said it had to be physically disconnected as that's the rule in the UK so they would have used the motor driven transfer switch, this takes time, but in your case you must be using the new kind that uses relays these put your inverter into island mode
Great work..!!!
3 phase x 30A, 40A or 60A is standard practice in most developed Europe for the last 30 years. Even Cyprus adopted 3 phase as standard practice since the late 90s. Its the best way forward.!!
This is incredibly informative:). Subscribed!
Some missing, important details here. The PowerWalls are AC and single phase each - so I'm guessing they're only connected to two of the three phases (or both on one phase)? If that's the case, the 'whole house' isn't being run by them in backup mode, just those circuits connected to the PowerWalls. There are also power output limits which would limit what you can run on each phase, including peak load.
That's what the gateway is for (besides all the other stuff): so the single phase Powerwall(s) can deliver/absorb power from all three phases.
It's the total capacity that causes UK building code to kick in.
@@MacGuyver85 How sould this work? Do they switch all three phases in parallel on one phase? Or is there a 1 - 3 phase AC converter in the gateway?
MacGyver Is that a fact or are you guessing? If that’s the case, how does the Gateway phase shift the different phases if they’re coming from a single AC source, because the AC can’t all be in the same phase (waveform) to power three phase equipment properly... the AC sine waves must be offset for true three phase supply. I’d be keen to know the details as to how this is achieved.
@@nitramluap It isn't made clear in the video but I would guess that the Backup Gateway is on the same phase as the house always was, and the solar array, with the original Powerwall. The other Powerwall would be on a different phase. This would mean only the contents of the first Powerwall would be available to power the house in the event of a power outage, but that should suffice in reliable old UK! Charging the second Powerwall from solar is, I guess, a process whereby the solar is actually being fed back TO the grid on the first phase, with the Gateway arranging to get exactly the same power FROM the grid on the second phase into the Powerwall. The meter would nett the input and output to record zero. Anyone able to confirm or deny my hypothesis?
Congratulations on getting the powerwall installed. I hope it really works out for you,. It will be interesting to see where this technology is in 10 years time and how much it has advanced by. This is probably not the forum for it.......... but screw it I am really looking forward to the red dwarf movie.
Just signed up for a full solar array and Powerwall 2 purely because of this (and the other Powerwall Video you did). Big investment but hopefully well worth it. Cheers Mr Llewellyn. 👍👍😃
So jealous of this install, very clean
Put everything up so the flood can't damage your power wall
Absolutely right. Result is no worries.
He’s on the top of a range of hills, so should be little chance of flooding and well above the 5m sea level rise
Halcyon Nightz if he spare leaks, leak and potato soup is nice this time of tear
Cool tech! Note to self: don't throw away the actual UPS... ;)
Kind of shocking that tech isn't in the Powerwall, then they've put out the Gateway as a whole intermediary system - still no UPS. You'd think it would be one of the easier problems to solve, regulatory hoops notwithstanding.
@@moarsaur exactly what I don't get!!! Like why the heck did the lights go off?!? That's a computers worth of work lost, everything in the house without a battery resetting, grandma dead from a lack of oxygen because we thought a big battery was a "backup"!!! We need to start viewing batteries as our MAINs power and the grid as our "backup"!! Then we'll actually get somewhere with all of this!!
Brilliant show! Love it :-) You got a new follower!
I especially liked the bit towards the end about the economics of import with fees versus export without recovering the fees.
Point of clarification, I have almost exactly the same configuration installed (same PV output and 2 power walls), but without the Gateway on a single phase supply. I am able to use the advance mode of charging the power wall's overnight on a cheap rate. It is my understanding that the level of charge/time of year intelligence is in the power wall firmware NOT the gateway. Therefore, you don't need a gateway to run this functionality.
Yes, this is correct - it is the firmware that manages the advance charging, so this functionality works on the older non-back-up gateway as well. I do talk about this at 13:12.
@@chrisjardine7406 Hi Chris, can you clarify which phases everything was connected to in Robert's system? Did you move the solar array or the original powerwall off the original phase to which the house was connected? If not, only the new ("free") powerwall would be on a second phase, with the zappi connected to all three. I have a property with all three phases so am interested!
Surely it would be cheaper for the government to install a system like this in every property in the Uk than pay for Hinckley Point C? Crazy 🙄😩🤦🏻♂️
That's politics for you
That wouldn't make profit for your shareholders....
TK-421 Hmmm 🤔 You might have a point there... 🙄😩🤦🏻♂️
The projected cost of Hinckley Point (£50billion) would put this system in almost 3.5 million homes and generate 4x more power
Jock Wood Crazy isn’t it? 🙄🤷🏻♂️
Nice clean install.
Very clever stuff Robert !! well done sir
"...and after alll...You're my powerwall..." someone had to. ... _no they didn't_ ? Fair enough ! :(
"We'll see if it is" said Elon.
Robert.
When's the "Kryten plugged into powerwall" episode?
There has to be some comedic value?
I have seen **so** many links to this video from all over the internet. This is the most referenced video, I have ever seen.
Have been running fully off grid on wind, solar and battery for 28 years. Multiple buildings, two residences all usual appliances including air conditioning etc etc. Running on second generation power station since 2013. Three AC coupled inverters Selectronic networked with two Kacos. Max available power 19.5kw. storage 90kwh.
HUH!? 😯 The amount of time for the batteries to kick in was pretty disappointing. I expected it to be instantaneous like a UPS, with a little flicker of the lights at most. So you still need a UPS for any sensitive electronics in the house. Why can’t it work like one?
Needs to securely disconnect from the grid before it can power up the for again. There is a lot more juice in a power wall than a ups.
Grid companies likely wouldn't allow it if it didn't do it slowly and checked 5 times.
Probably also related to the fact it's 3-phase - so it has to disconnect (in effect) 3 separate supplies, and verify all there are safe, before telling everything else they can power up again...
@@4203105 that doesn't really explain it, considering that this system is supposed to function, effectively, off-grid most of the time.
Even the real industrial applications have a 2 to 5 second delay until the back up power cuts in. This is normal
This isn't typical as you can see from some other comments. It should be almost instantaneous. Robert should have Tesla check on what's wrong here.
Great video, I've been looking forward to this one! Please do a video on Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFeP04) batteries used for stationary storage applications like this. It is the far safer and more environmentally-friendly option, as compared to Lithium Ion Cobalt (such as the Tesla Powerwalls) or sealed lead acid. It is currently more expensive, but as I understand it that is only because it isn't being manufactured at the same scale.
Stephen Shumaker the cobalt use in Tesla Batteries is the lowest in the industry, they lead the world in that aspect... given time I’m sure it will be lower yet.
@@slim1100 I'm aware, and I hope they continue on that path. Still, LiFeP04 makes more sense for stationary storage, and Li-Ion Cobalt makes more sense for passenger vehicles. Tesla wants to have just one battery manufacturing line, so they use the same type for everything.
Congratulations on flattening the curve!
Excellent video, Off grid capabilities, now, big difference... I watched the first video you did, this is an excellent follow up video of your upgrade...
Surprised by how long it took to switch over to battery. My PowerWall switches so fast, the digital clocks don't reset.
Me also... my Victron Energy system balances input from grid, solar and batteries and switches fully to batteries/solar in milliseconds - computers, TV, light etc all stay on and the anti-islanding prevents any power going back out to the grid.
Wow that’s amazing, but wait a minute, 25 years ago I installed a 10kW Victron inverter providing completely bumpless switchover from mains to battery and back again. Back then the batteries were lead acid but at a fraction of the cost of L’ion.
I had lost power for almost 3 full days a few months back, really wish I had something like this during that time.
Groyper?
This is a very smart system you got there. The best ive seen/heard about.
Great stuff! Many thanks, Robert.
Frank Grimes was such an influential engineer.
Hmm, I was told backup systems are instantaneous (new ones). There are various types, but you definitely need a continuous and fast switching PS to keep your electronics safe. Seeing how a brand new tech like Tesla failed to switch power on for several seconds is weird. Or maybe they just use Tesla batteries and not a complete package. He did say he got it for free.
I am one of your Australian viewers who you must envious of for sun in winter! I was curious to see you had to upgrade your power and deal with the grid when getting your powerwall. We had a totally different experience with our two powerwalls- enough sun all year round to completely disconnect the grid entirely and are now stand alone. Even in winter we generate 30+ kWh per day for our two powerwalls. Plenty of power to run a house! (No central heating required!!)
Thank you for your great videos sharing this amazing technology.
I love your humor! I did subscribe!
Electric driving is just great...
Great for the consumer but still very bad for the environment.
@@4TheRecord BETTER for the environment than ICE vehicles
@@briandowling8372, you speak the truth. Because BEVs are so insanely efficient, even with a 100% coal-fired grid there's less CO2 than with an ICE vehicle. Besides, the grid gets cleaner and cleaner, and could in theory hit zero CO2, while ICE vehicles have pretty much gotten as good as they'll ever be.
4TheRecord not really. Battery production is about 1 long flight..
@@4TheRecord Electric vehicles are always better than ICE.
ok, if you just count the production, without driving, the ICE is slightly better.
But to be truth, why you buying a car, if you don't drive with it?
All studies showing, that electric cars are way more environment friendly, even if you power it with 100% carbon produced electricity.
The only who say it's better to use fossil fuel cars are the dealer, because they are not earning that big in selling a new car and they earning almost nothing in maintenance.
And the gas stations and mineral oil companies also prefer internal combustion cars, because they are not earning anymore.
Just don't be stupid and let you brainwash by these companies...
Tesla is one of my favorite companies to watch out for, especially with the supercaps aquisition of Maxwell and the rumors around the Solid state battery. However, for a house battery going on Lithium Ions isn't what "clean energy" is about. Because we dont need to safe weight or room specificall for that application it would be nice if you covered an episode on a sodium Ion battery built for a house, such as greenrock. My parents actually just installed one in their new house. I haven't seen it personally but I would love to see what those are capable of.
Most importantly, can you cross over systems with the Tesla grid lock with systems like that...
The real switch will come when home-based batteries become 'stupid not to' level tech. We don't need it to be small or light, we need it to work and last. Na-ion might be the answer to that.
This is a neat setup, I plan something myself like this in the future so it is neato to see it in action.
wonderful unboxing experience here. congratulations
This is cool, I can’t wait to have these in my house. Hopefully the energy density increases when I’m able to afford a house.
Exactly it's about a 100 grand for what you're looking at if not more it turns your house into a miniature power plant ridiculous warning don't let your kids get near it it could kill them
@@michaelmcmenzie6928 the incoming supply looked quite low down the wall but the rest of the installation was immaculate. What aspect are you worried about?
Elon is installing a system in Australia where ultimately 50,000 houses will have such systems installed - with all linked sideways to each other to produce a town-wide grid that can be independent of the country main grid. Already the pilot scheme of 100 houses has prevented a blackout. The next phase of 1000 houses due soon and if successful funding for the full 50,000 will be released. In the future linking whole towns sideways would be possible. Making a few dirty power stations redundant.
Hi where abouts in Australia?
@@harrypalmer7578 - The report doesn't specify the town - just South Australia. More info available from google. www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/elon-musk-tesla-batteries-australia-homes-virtual-power-plants-free-solar-panels-a8196656.html
The batteries will need to be replaced in under 10yrs
@@glendooer6211 Ouch is that how bad the battery tech is in these? 10 year replacement cycle will kill the ROI for many people.
@@glendooer6211 - A bold claim. Can you back it up with credible evidence? Bear in mind that EV cars have typically an 8 year warranty.
Looking to build a house in El Paso, Texas, so this was very informative. Obviously the sun will produce quite a lot of power, but conversely, we will be cranking air conditioning constantly. In the UK, your AC needs are miniscule by comparison. That's a win in your favor.
The Electrical Installation is a Beautiful job.
Oh dear, just spotted Proteus fuseboards in Roberts house. In the trade (I’m a spark btw) they’re known as the cheapest of the cheap. I wouldn’t have that kit in my house. I wonder if Robert knows his installers are using cheap Chinese rubbish?
Also Dr. Chris Jardine was incorrect on his single phase description. Single phase has 2 hots and a neutral. If you are going to install this stuff you need to know about electricity I would think!
I was just going to say the same, decent install let down by proteus DB’s. They try to glam them up here by making them sound posh, pronouncing it Pro TeyUs ! 😀
I would love to have a system like this but devil is in the detail....how much?
A lot.
www.tesla.com/en_GB/powerwall
2 powerwalls with the equipment needed would cost £14,100, then you have to pay for the installation and 3 phase upgrade... ouch!
@@con1989 lol well like they said most people don't have to upgrade to 3 phase, and definitely not £14,100 for 2 power walls in australia :D I think you pay more outside-of-usa-tax than we do. (it seems to be about 2/3rds of that price before subsidies)
We have one Powerwall and it cost 9000€ including installation. I guess the numbers will be similar in the UK.
If someone payed for a car with, for example, 40 kWh battery, it makes some sense to buy something like Powerwall only until such cars will feature Vehicle To Grid (V2G). Unfortunately cars with CCS plug cannot have this wonderful feature yet (and they probably won't until 2025).
My dream comes true!
Congratulations from 🇵🇹.
Perfect video.
Here in Melbourne Australia, we are running 2X power wall 2's fed by 10 kw of solar (26)panels. Since the second power wall 2 has been installed we have not used any grid supply for 2 months during Spring. The entire system is running on a single phase.