Why Droid Armies are hugely UNDERRATED in Star Wars
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- Droid Armies in Star Wars are often written off as cheap and ineffective - today, we'll discuss how that couldn't be any further from the truth, and how the CIS in the Clone Wars only paints half the picture. All that and more on today's Star Wars Lore video!
Thumbnail image: Grievous by Ricean Vlad
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Развлечения
I love the fact that stupid stuff I used to think of as a kid is now discussion topics. So glad this channel exists, great job Eck.
That is exactly what I thought when I found galactic versus a few years ago. Lots of good content on this channel
Simps
Jk
100%
there's nothing stupid about questioning the possibility of the secret of immortality being found in certain types of mashed giblets harvested from the special of vegans found only on tik tok
@@quantemwensday ???
The cis droid army was actually one of the things that initially got me into star wars.
I thought the droid army was the best its my favourite
the seps droid army is very interesting
the first confederacy i want to rise again
Same
@@kanestalin7246 yeah they are best if you look Map of Galaxy during Clone Wars CIS is very poor compare to Republic but they invaded the fricking Coruscant because of droid Army. If Clone Wars is real war CIS will won war.
What I love about the droid army is that the droids, despite being robots, act polite at times. They are also really funny
THOSE CLANKERS KILLED MY BROTHERS
“We’re not like them we’re independent thinkers!” “Roger roger” “Roger roger”
Padme': STOP! Don't open that hatch!
Battle droid: HAH! Too late!
(Blasts the hatch; blaster bolt ricochets back at him and kills himself)!😆
I prefer the legends droids which weren't just cheap Cannon fodder made for you to laugh at and we're actually badass and intimidating
@Michael Mazurczyk
You're looking at it through the eyes of some normal, everyday people. I'm pretty sure normal people would be scared and intimidated by anything holding a weapon
I honestly want to see an episode in the Bad Batch, maybe as an introduction with Vader, where we see a Seperatist hold out, and instead of B1s being idiotic, they are being really aggressive and smart, and yelling Seperatist loyal phrases as they die, and we see them annhilating Clones, and then Vader shows up, and jsut slaughters every single Droid.
I adore this idea. For too long B1 battledroids have been treated like memes, I want them to be intimidating again!
Or better yet, show what B1's are actually good at - logistics, manning weapon platforms and so on. Try to take on them when they have a warehouse full of missile launchers and aren't afraid to waste all of them
Legends definitely treated the droids better. They weren't just jokes to laugh at and were actually pretty badass
@@ugiustuskeiserus8066 GigaChad IG-88
Use the OOM series instead. That could help.
"Human beings usually have arms, and those arms usually end in hands"
-- Eckharts Ladder, 2021
Lol
Lol
Imagine if each clone trooper had been equipped with, say, four or five battle droids. One with a rocket launcher, one with a laser cannon, one with enhanced sensors and comms gear, etc. Instead of cannon fodder, each trooper becomes a corporal, commanding his own fire team.
$$$$$$$$$$$
I've always imagined that as a kid, like every clone has 3 or 4 droids and boom the most op military ever
@@bobafett9477 if you manipulate the markets like Palpatine and exploit some rich bankers in addition to production tycoons. Suddenly the issue of financing has dissipated. In all honesty seeing as the Republic/ empire controlled the galaxy, they could do whatever they wanted to the value of their currency since there is no other government they have to contend with. Seeing what palpatine did to the empire’s economy it seems like it’s robust and doesn’t really have many limits... don’t forget the empire had no reservation dumping massive amounts of money into the 2 Death Stars and other idiotic projects that were unspeakably expensive!
Sounds like the video game Enlisted, not gonna lie XD
@@bobafett9477 and a cloned human is cheaper than a Droid manufactured in a day?
If you follow real-world military tech news you will see that certain things mentioned in this video are slowly becoming implemented in various countries' arsenals.
At the same time making humanoid droids is very bad idea
I thought the military trials for Boston Dynamics' robots failed because the Spot droid was ridiculously loud _(the military version runs on a diesel generator)_ and still too slow?
@@ImieNazwiskoOK Humanoid droids are a reasonably good idea because much of the equipment you make for them can be repurposed for biological soldier use, they make for a nice general purpose design especially for fighting in environments created with humanoids in mind, and they can be augmented with specialist models where needed instead of a specialist model needing be designed for every possible situation. Not to mention the ability to use the same controls and weapon emplacements biological soldiers use allows for humanoid droid types to be used as replacements for wounded troops or used in place of biological soldiers while still enabling biological soldiers to use the same equipment.
The problem is that in real life we lack the technology yet to be able to produce a humanoid droid type. We can barely get dog type robots working.
@@TankHunter678 Only humanoid hands would solve most of problems.
And lack of stability is general problem.
Adding many limbs would be much better than 2 legs.
And if someone would want to make CIS like droid only military being humanoid isn't big advantage.
Imagine if the CIS wasn't designed by Sheev to be a failure.
It would've been a GG for the Seps after the first year or two of the war. Scorpinek Annihilators, B3 Ultras, BX Commandos and other specialized units would have their ranks grow vastly after their combat effectiveness is seen by Separatist leadership...
@@papapalps2415 While I don't disagree that CEOs are inept leeches who can't run an army, Palpatine did still have a part in making the CIS inept early on. Particularly important would be the first battle of Kamino, where the CIS almost destroyed the cloning facilities if it weren't for Palpatine warning the Republic, and they lost a good general at that.
@@papapalps2415 mans wrote a whole book on one little comment
Assuming the war wasn't rigged from the start, I would hypothetically like to integrate more organics as Officers into the CIS and as special forces units. Also just like my R&D team go wild trying to optimize existing droid forces and introduce more effective models throughout the Clone Wars. I'd also focus a lot on committing expendable droid fleets to destroying essential infrastructure (shipyards, enemy factories, communications, etc) rather than capturing more planets.
Yeah exactly, to cripple Republic's ways with sabotage and flash kamikaze droid strikes. Their clones are quite useless without the Venators to transport them into the battlefront planets >:D
After a battle is done you can salvage all your losses and use them as parts for your next army.
Or at minimum raw materials.
The thing you should always remember, is that Dooku kept 90% of the droid forces in reserve. So in any given scene, you can multiply the droid numbers by 10 and then you have a realistic scale of what the separatists would have normally
Man I used to lecture my younger brother about how the droid army was actually extremely efficient and that an individual battle droid was actually quite dangerous. He grew up with the goofy droids in the clone wars. I love the CIS as a faction, too bad it was just a scheme.
Unlead, or thrown into a situation it isnt equipped to think through, I imagine a B1 is not of much use, probably it even has a failsafe to limit its agression if it ends up in such a situation to prevent pptential incidents, but in direct combat droids would be a fearsome opponent, with superior sitational awareness, accuracy, stamina, and absolttely no fear.
1st Republic Officer: "The droid army outnumbers us ten to one. What can we do to beat their numbers?"
2nd Republic Officer: "Why don't we use more electro-bombs like the one used on Malestare?"
1st Republic Officer: "No, no, no, that's not it."
They did
@@CoolMyron in very rare occasions
@@Cthulhuwarlord I'm pretty sure every clone was equipped with a droid popper. Ion rounds are a thing to
Their weapons used higly ionized plasma wich generated stronger EMPs to damage droids more effectively
Oh how many times an AoE EMP bomb would have saved the day. The clones could have detonated one every time they were surrounded with no risk to themselves.
In Star Wars Legends and Disney Canon, the CIS B1 and B2 droids actually did have "specialization" programming, often designated by their colored highlights. Gold highlights always designated a command officer, for example. The problem is that the programming was as shoddy as the construction: cheap, and meant for mass production and storage, in order to justify their sheer numbers
You know of Geetslys? He goes through SO many ways to describe how good the CIS droid army was actually pretty damn good from a logistical standpoint as well as a tactical one. If anything, if the war hadn't been ended early by Order 66, the CIS could've won or the war still might be raging now in a pseudo cold war between the Seperatists and the Republic.
Like, I know theyre used for comic relief, but the idea of a droid army is pretty terrifying. All they do is march and shoot until the person pushing the buttons tells them to stop.
Reason one: self preservation protocol settings are adjustable
Frankly they were set to low in most cases.
If they took cover more regularly they probably would be better.
Also they probably could have put some organic soldiers in their forces as secondary/backup ground command and control systems in case some child in a stolen fighter accidentally deletes your command ship.
Like 1 in 30 troops being a living creature with cyber brain implants to allow them to given the Droids flexibility of thinking. Effectively biological platoon sergeants.
Staying behind the Droids and directing them when someone is trying to trick them.
Certainly if I was to make a "marysue" or original character it would be a mercenary or bounty hunter that uses brain implants to command and control about 30-60 recovered droids on a smallish patrol ship.
@@lordhefman fair
Armies should supplement their armies with Battle Droids just like the Republic and Sith Empire did in SWTOR. Both sides had battle droids serving various roles within their armies.
The droids in legends were fucking killing machines. I want to see them live up to their potential in Bad Batch.
Same for Stormtroopers I hate how incompetent they portray them as and treat them as a joke in Canon and Disney.
Eck: "A mixed droid-organic army would be best."
Gunray: "He can't do that! Shoot him - or something!"
You start to fear them after fighting them in VR
Everything is more intimidating in after seeing it in VR
No matter how many times I see it I still can’t get over that outro
Star Wars and Corgis. This channel has something for everyone
The Droid Army (CIS) Is my favorite part about Star Wars! I always loved the droids designs concepts ect.
My favorite is the rebel alliance for starfighters...and the empire for superweapons and the legends mandalorians for everything else...
I got into Star wars as a kid BECAUSE of the Droid Army, i just loved the concept of many types of droids fighting together in massive armies , its also more realistic when you think about it. Why use human soldiers when you can make mass produced machines. Wished they dint go extinct though :(
Twice the content, Double the happiness
Eck, I agree with you on all points but 1: CIS droid fighters kicked the republic pilot's butts. They could go speeds that would pulverize an organic, they could give mind to the other ships in the engagement zone, and their skill level was consistently higher than most organic pilots
Oh also if you're going to have droids crew your ship just make those ships completely automated and closed off, no boarding action, just have a hangar and a computer large enough to deal with commanding ships and starfighters or multiple brains to control the ship just make it so that they can't be hijacked (or as close as you can get) and boom, you can say goodbye to pesky boarding parties
@@papapalps2415 Well of course, I'm just saying that if you are trusting droids enough to crew a full battleship with them, might as well just make it a fully autonomous giant droid (or a bunch of droid brains in a trench coat, whichever works best), so as not to allow for boarding parties
Droids also can have heavy and denser armor vs a squishy storm trooper. Droid star fighters were also brilliant due to the fact they didn't have to worry about inertia dampeners or life support which cut down costs. The standard b1 wasn't a bad design per se, due to how common they were they could easily find a downed droid on the battle field and salvage what parts were still useable.
You make a good point about the star fighter droids. Manned star fighters would almost seem obsolete in comparison as long as the droid's programming is good enough. Without the life support you could put more ammo, guns, missiles or fuel in it. Also to your other point just because a droid is downed you can still get alot of valuable components off it as long as it isn't completely obliterated.
The CIS is one of the most underestimated armies in star wars. Also, kicks the crud out of 7-9 (not canon).
I agree I’d even take the CIS over the imperial army from the original trilogy
@@davidordaz5251 That's what makes 1-6 the main and only story. Each army was specific to its very faction.
Galactic Republic- Loyalty and Brotherhood
The Confederacy- Power and Strategy
Rebel Alliance- Dedication and Unification
Galactic Empire- Unwavering Loyalty and Supression
Yo CIS unironically have such a well designed navy, I think the only faction that MAY have done it better is the Rebel Alliance, just bc their starfighter corp is S tier.
@@spiffygonzales5160 7-9 and high republic must die.
@Michael Mazurczyk not really
The Resistance: An old dog that needed to retire.
The First Order: A rabid dog on a chain that needs to be put out of its misery.
As Mr. Bones from the aftermath trilogy demonstrated, much of the original b1 design was underdeveloped and could’ve been greatly improved upon if the separatists had put in some more research into R&D. The Aqua droids from the Clone Wars were devastatingly effective during the Mon Cala arc, and if the CIS has this kind of modular flexibility for other fronts in the war, the war would’ve been much shorter
Doesn't it feel good to say "For years"?
Man, you've been putting out A grade content for a long while now.
Me explaining to my friends on the playground why Droids could have been amazing.
_"Why Droid Armies are hugely UNDERRATED in Star Wars"_
Roger roger?
Personally, I’m a slooooot for any variant of figure of the battle droid. Such a beautiful design!
Anyone who's ever heard Eck (or hell, anyone with Any knowledge of Strategy whatsoever): "We Know"
Last time I was this early A New Hope was called episode 1
The reason I always thought that they were underrated was cause in almost every depiction I've personally seen the droid armies are getting clowned
Yes my bois in the clanka hood finally got the love they deserve instead of the meatbags
YEESIR 🗣🗣 got to rep it
Not to spoil anything, but we at Champion of the Empire have done some HEAVY thinking on perhaps using an Imperial droid army as the dominant force of the Imperial Reformed Remnant. A central computer system is actually much better that individual brains. Though the computer is a prime target for an enemy attack, the massive benefit is a learning hive mind that can be effectively coordinated and extensively fine tuned during a battle. Another thing we have done is completely overhauled the idea of programming. Program a droid army like 0-0-0 (but actually have it loyal to a cause) and you have an incredibly dangerous army capable of learning and that are actually intelligent instead of the usual stupid (like the old B-1). We have much more to say, but we can't due to spoilers. If you are fine with it Eckhartsladder, we would like to send you our book chapters for a review once they are ready. A fair warning though, it is EXTREMELY lore heavy.
The Sky Troopers from the Eternal Empire were great imo. An updated version of them with HK's as commando units would be highly effective
All of Star Wars armies and fleets are underrated... mostly due to mental capabilities of their commanders:(
& to make room for the mystical force-user main characters
#AskEck Commando Droids vs ODSTs(Star Wars vs Halo)
Commandos easy. They take out clone pretty easily and clones are basicly mandos with out the cool armor and gadgets.
A mixed army of droids and organics is definitely worth having
2:15 The Jedi Knight games: “Well - uh, you see-“
I haven't even watched the vid yet and I know it's gonna be good
I'm fairly sure that IG-88 was originally designed to brew the best damn cup of coffee in the galaxy. Now that I've brought that up, you can't unsee it.
“No non-force sensitive can match the destructive output of IG-88.”
Mando: “Am I a joke to you?”
mando didn't fight IG-88
yes
Really expanded my outlook on droid armies, very informative, time to make my own army
I wasn't of them in the films mostly because they were all CGI and the arti direction didn't portray them as particularly menacing. Except maybe for Droidekas.
I agree
This is the type of truth the Republic wouldn't let you hear
The droid army and navy is the best
Drinking game: take a sip every time Eckharts ladder says "Yushang vong"
your last point i agree with. a mixed unit of droids and organics would be ideal either at the squad leader or even platoon leadership level. at squad level it would be an organic NCO in charge of say 8-10 droids of varying specialization this would be the more expensive yet effective solution for getting the most out of your droids but requires trained NCOs to lead them, this also means having an organic chain of command assisted by droids who are capable of performing hard calculations to assist their organics leaders. if you didnt want to put organics in harms way you could forget the NCOs and specialized droids for a more CIS approach and begin putting organics officers in the platoon level up so that you still have organic command. both have trade offs but both would be better than an all organic army clones or otherwise.
My dream is Organic NCOs in power armor, leading a squad like you said. Each droid is specialized, carrying anti-armor, more ammo, first aid, batteries, shielding. The NCO is the tip of the spear, almost like a knight and his retinue. And they can call down fire support from capital ships in orbit.
#askEck Why was the Grand Army of the Republic’s capital ship called the venator? I did a biology class recently and the bottom of a creature is the ventral side, but the main hangar bay is on the top... it seems odd.
I dont think the name is connected to that lol.
Venator is latin for Hunter (also was a type of gladiator). Ventral comes from the latin Venter, meaning belly. They are not the same word.
Honestly it made lil sense to get rid of the droid army. I mean Palpatine could have easily said "we taken their leaders and we now have their factories, given the versatility of droids, they will be reprogrammed and added to the clone armies" and no one would be able to tell him "no" since he is Emperor. And having them work side by side would have made them way more effective.
And in truth, they could have just had someone assassinate all the Kamonans that are running the facility, take the tech for themselves back to another planet, then create the clones on a larger scale. Remove Order Codes that are a threat to Palpatine, add new Order Codes, then eventually the 1.0s will slowly phase out.
And he still could have had his human trained soldiers, just have them in command positions on the field. And his army and fleet would have grown to such heights that no one would be able to stand a chance. Hell, could have even made cloned engineers if he wanted so as to make Starships & Battle Stations more frequently. Just imagine if the Rebels arrived at Endor and see 3 Death Stars instead of 1.
Palpatine was controlling all aspects of the Clone Wars along with Dooku. Palpatine would never allow any of the Droid ideas you mentioned. The CIS Droid Army was only meant to keep the Grand Army of the Republic busy. The CIS was never meant to actually win. They were meant to be cheap disposable opponents that could be mass produced. Any attempt to make a better droid (that could kill a Clone or Jedi 1v1) was shut down by Palpatine. Either he would have the inventor assassinated, or the droid factory bombed.
@@papapalps2415 - The B1 was the most produced Battle droid in the CIS army by a massive margin. In a 1v1 scenario, the Clone Trooper will win against a B1 droid.
A B2 Droid might give a Clone a little more trouble (due to their thicker armor), but the Clone still most likely win out against a B2 if he uses his training, cover, and proper tactics. The B2 it's still basically an upgraded B1 droid. Both droid brains are dumb. Both Droids march forward out in the open with no cover or tactics. They only win through sheer numbers or surprise.
If a Clone has any trouble, they he'll team up with his fellow troopers to work together to win. Clones are trained from birth to be extremely efficient soldiers. On the other hand, The CIS droids are simply loaded with whatever the cheapest battle software they had.
Remember there are trillions of battledroids in the CIS army, and only tens of millions of Clone Troopers at most in the Republic army. Yet, the Clone war was a stalemate for the most of the war.
Palpatine intentionally designed it that way. He wanted a quantity vs quality approach. Clones could destroy numerous Droids. But Droids could swarm in huge numbers. Palpatine wanted both sides to exhaust themselves. So when the time was right, he could take over with little resistance.
@@papapalps2415 - The fact is that the majority Clones do not fight like CIS Droids. If they have a choice, they aren't going to stand in the open with no cover fighting a Droid like in your "imaginary scenario". They are trained in a completely different method of fighting. Squad tactics, using cover, and anti-droid weapons. They will do their best to use their environment for their advantage. Fighting out in the open is a last resort.
Yes ... you might have that "one rare idiot rookie Clone" who thinks he's a hero and runs out into the open to punch a B1 droid with his fist. But they are typically killed off fast. And Clone legions are usually not that aggressive unless they have a Jedi leading them on the front lines.
The CIS Droids are not like the IG-88 from the Mandalorian TV show - where a single droid guns down an entire village of mercenaries. Palpatine would never allow that. He purposely wanted dumb droids that rely on numbers to fight. Dumb Droids that prefer walk slowly in the open in Parade formation. Anything smarter than that, and Palapatine's plans wouldn't work.
This sounds like you have personal problem with the show itself. If you have an issue with the lore, books, and TV show/movies - then swearing and cursing out others on a RUclips comment section isn't going to solve that.
The Brotherhood of Steel does not underestimate technology
the enclave is better
@@xX_wiLLiam_Xx The enclave is no morally better than our paladins
@@themanED ok technology hoarder
@@xX_wiLLiam_Xx ok vault experimenters
Omg i love your videos bro keep uploads going my man
Honestly it's a crying shame that we were never able to see some of the droid designs and models from Legends that made the CIS Droid Army so lethal and scary.
Because there were some pretty scary droid models like the scorpionic annihilator droids, b3 ultra battle droids, bl battle legionnaire series, advanced spider droids and more. There were a lot of really cool models/designs we never got to see that were pretty scary and powerful.
Droid armies are loyal, cheap, easy to get a lot of.
On the other hand there’s usually a master kill switch...
They are not cheap. Unless you talking b1s lol
@@CoolMyron cheaper than organically
Eh...it didn't work so well with IG88 LOL!!!
Their not loyal if you have a competent hacker and those droids use a shared network, which the separatists used from their droid ships. They sound highly susceptible to jamming technologies, which would result in them having to resort to basic preprogrammed settings. Even a simple sensor hack would render entire field armies useless.
The yuuzang bong having organic tech, would have no need of machine replication. As they should by default have the capacity to convert organic matter into organic life, and thus replenish troops. Cloning should have been a thing easily done by the yuuzang bong again by default because that's just what organic tech yields (Weren't they doing that to coruscant anyways? Replace all native life to that of their homeworld? So they obviously had a means of recreating lifeforms, environmental conditions, etc ) they had access to gravity warping dovin bassals, so theoretically they could have designed slingshot warp bubbles to space folding down to gravitic repulsion and gravitic shielding/armor plating (platings atomic structure compressed by intense gravity fields, like how a neutron star is so dense.) Heck they could form literally singularities.
The yuuzang bong should have had the capacity to make organic bacterias and fungi that explicitly attacked droids, both externally and internally resulting in higher then average maintenance upkeep to complete breakdowns, as wires corroded, circuit boards corroded, vents gunked up, materials where decomposed, etc.
It's like the similarities and differences between borg and species 8472.
@@moguldamongrel3054 only at the beginning. After that all the driods could work alone. So hacking would be a waste of time. You also have to be right on the driod to hack it. Dont get any long range hacking much in star wars at all.
Your videos are amazing.
The CIS' droid army isn't even so terrible when the cheap cost is to be considered. Like the fact that the Trade Federation was onboard with it should be a sign of how economically savvy it must've seemed.
The CIS is my FAVORITE Star Wars Faction! We need a new RTS where you can play as ANY of the Major Factions!
insert Roger Roger here if you agree with video
Roger roger
A hybrid army between jango clones and battle droids would've been a hell of a fighting force-- Clones to serve as officers to make up for the B1's slow and shoddy programming, and the sheer numbers of the B1s to swallow any opponents. Unmanned vehicles are also highly underrated.
I always felt the same about the unmanned fighters in space combat. I think it's called the Hyena droid. As a kid that one actually scared me abit. Watching it walk around on all four wingtips communicating with it's fellow droids. Then watching it particularly in episode 3 showed me how effective those things could be. Certainly scared the clone fighter pilots.
@@crappycomputer77t1 You're thinking of the hyena bomber, it's normal counterpart, the vulture droid, was probably one of the most dangerous starfighters ever invented-- They were fast, maneuverable, and cheap, because they didn't need cockpits or life support like organic fighters. They're one of my favorite fighters in star wars, and it's a shame there aren't many other droid fighters.
@@adudeontheinternet8246 Yes you're right. I like star wars, just haven't kept up with the lore recently. Also I like your description of the vulture droid. Honestly the fighter pilot idea just seems silly when you have these things flying around.
@@crappycomputer77t1 That's fine. I love the droid army to bits, especially the vulture droid-- I wish we saw more of them.
Do the heavy Stormtroopers in fallen order Portable Shields get radiated?
They most likely had armor for it
I think that a droid army would be most useful if you refitted a droid control ship to store individual personalities of combat droids. Whatever ones killed more effectively can be selected for and copied so every droid performs best, improving the collective software over time. Multiply this over and over you get ace droids that have "experiences" and "skills" that would make them unstoppable. It's very similar to the Cylon resurrection concept with a Darwinian twist.
5:30 We already have customized B1 roles. TCW, Wookieepedia and Hasbro TCW toys have already confirmed this. There are Commander B1s, Pilot Battle Droids, Rocket Battle Droids, Firefighter Battle Droids, AAT Drive Battle Droids, etc, etc. You see the different color schemes all throughout the Prequels and TCW. They symbolize different B1s for different roles and specializations.
You missed or partly-missed several advantages:
1) Public Morale / War Fatigue - If your army is almost entirely droid-based, you're not suffering heavy organic casualties, nor seeing soldiers come back wounded and traumatized. This makes the public much less likely to lose their will to continue the war. Clones have this to a degree, as the public didn't really see them as people, but they still bleed and feel pain, so at least some people will be distressed by their deaths.
1a) Morale - If they're programmed properly, battle droids aren't going to break and rout.
2) Life Support / Logistics - Droids can be packed in tightly when not in use (as seen in the Battle of Naboo). They don't require food, water, air, or much in the way of temperature control - just power. Thus, droid troops are *much* easier to store and transport, not needing much in the way of supplies or life support. Tactics may win a battle, but logistics wins wars.
3) Repairability - If an organic soldier gets an arm blown off, first they'll need immediate and significant medical attention just to survive, and then they'll require a prosthetic and an extensive period of recovery and rehab before they can return to active duty. If a droid gets an arm blown off, it can get a new one and go right back to the front lines. Other casualties of the same model can even be cannibalized for spare parts.
4) Production - Droids can be produced *much* faster and in greater quantities than comparable organic soldiers. In a war of attrition, a competently-run and adequately-resourced droid army has a tremendous advantage. This can be amplified with mobile factories as you alluded to, especially if you can recycle scrap and salvage from the battlefield into new droids (or other materiel). Imagine a series of mobile droid foundries and other production facilities following along behind the battle line, constantly bolstering the front lines with fresh troops built in part from their own casualties - as long as they kept moving forward enough to be able to clean up battlefields, it could turn into almost a perpetual martial motion machine.
I love Droids and the CIS so much, I eat up any video on them
So, the first thing that comes to my mind after watching this video is that the Geth from Mass Effect would probably run over most powers in the Star Wars galaxy, since they are an example of what a machine race can actually do.
I get that a lot of the problems with the CIS army and navy were intentional aspects put in place by Palpatine and Dooku, but it's still frustrating to look at a military which could easily become a dominant force with just a few changes to how it operates.
@@papapalps2415 My point was that the Geth are capable of identifying and responding to weaknesses and threats with the speed of an actual machine. Their ships are actually designed so that they don't have a crew in the conventional sense, and in many cases don't even have an atmosphere since they don't need one.
Their lack of stopping power, which is debatable considering how SW defenses are largely geared towards energy weaponry, wouldn't be much of an issue since they'd quickly adapt the common weapons technology and further refine it.
The droids in Star Wars, meanwhile, come off more as organics in metal shells than actual machines with how they act and interact with each other and other lifeforms with only a few notable exceptions.
Again, I get that these things are *intentionally done* in the SW universe, but that doesn't mean it still doesn't bother me. They have an enormous amount of potential that is willingly being left untapped by the majority of people, and it's a little frustrating.
@@papapalps2415 If my memory serves, the few times you get aboard actual Geth ships in the ME trilogy, you stay suited up completely due to lack of atmosphere with a few exceptions where, apparently, the plot demands that the ship be capable of producing a breathable atmosphere (not sure why, other than because the plot demands that your character actually have their face shown). But to clarify; the Geth are a networked intelligence, so unless you're actively jamming communications between platforms or ships, once you've been detected by one then the entire collective is aware of your presence.
Obviously, I'm not suggesting that the droids in SW be the exact same as them, but the communications between them seem painfully slow and geared more towards organics (why would droid ship commanders need to communicate with one another via hologram when they're in the same formation?). For crying out loud, the Commando Droids which raid the Rishi outpost have to talk with one another to communicate, which isn't just a waste of time since talking is slow but also runs the risk of blowing their cover. Even if it was too expensive to actually network the rank-and-file droids to quickly share information, why wasn't it done to the commandos?
"I'm...really, really not sure you want to throw accusations of specialized defenses when trying to debate on behalf of fucking ME, of all possible things."
No, I fully understand that ME technology, both offensive and defensive, is built around kinetic weaponry.
"ME, as a universe, is highly liable to be utterly and completely annihilated in a normal military scenario by most notable pieces/works of science fiction."
"SW, in particular, stands a strong chance of beating almost the entirety of the setting with anything past a corvette-grade ship without even trying"
Debatable, considering that SW shields don't seem nearly as impenetrable as most fans claim (explain to me how they're supposed to block solid projectiles, and yet fighter craft can still fly 'under' them to strike at the ship itself), but that's beside the point. I'm not arguing for all of the ME universe here, only the Geth specifically.
Would they be in a terrible position from a military standpoint at the beginning? While I would argue that the degree would depend on what faction they were up against, it would still be yes. Would it stay that way for long? I doubt it, because again this is a networked machine race. Their chances of learning and adapting to SW technology are far better than any other race from ME. Because the Geth are a collective, they respond to threats as a group the literal moment they are known. The only times you really see them lagging are when they're in small numbers and isolated, and even then they are able to create specialist platforms which are more capable even on their own, like the one known as Legion.
Also, just to clarify, I'm not really drawing on the content in the ME trilogy in terms of when you fight the Geth for this, since the gameplay itself doesn't really do them justice. It's a problem with most game media, since they are limited by both what they can actually do as well as what the story demands that they do.
"What possible motivation could a mostly-peaceful, 99% of the time, setting like SW have from going MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY all the time?"
A truly effective and efficient defensive force, for a start. Network those droids together, and the chances of someone outmaneuvering them or outright beating them becomes more difficult since they would be going up against the entire force in terms of processing power and coordination. More importantly, that coordination would take place at the same speed as the droid's processors, since it would be through a wireless network and not speech. It's not like that would even be terribly hard to do, or even require a major structural change in whatever platform you're dealing with.
Yes, I get that the B1s are supposed to be cheap, disposable combat units, but that's still something of a problem. Literally *one* change to them, and your cheap fighting force would likely become far more effective in combat. Instead of being a joke, the B1s would act as a collective against their enemies and coordinate just as quickly, which would be dangerous enough at the platoon or squad level but would also make them far worse to fight in larger numbers.
Instead, you have literally the most basic combat programming you can imagine on isolated platforms who are just supposed to march towards the enemy while firing until either the enemy dies, or the droids do. It was entertaining enough to watch as a kid, but now it's just irritating and comes off as a waste. I understand that the CIS was *designed* to fail, but that doesn't stop the untapped potential in it from being irritating.
I think one of the CIS biggest weakness was not going with full automated war vessels. Apart from maybe flag ships run by organic generals like trench or grievous (organics a loose term) all the living space could be replace by computing power and housing of more droids. Plus on ground you could make giant murder bots like the terror walkers instead of those hover tanks.
I actually think the CIA were planning on reusing their gear for the coming independent militaries of the CIA systems that would house organics.
You would probably need shafts running through the ship for repair droids, but otherwise this would be a better plan.
@@papapalps2415 Yeah, but we would, if we were given the chance.
Video suggestion: All/Obscure CIS droids?
I gladly 2nd that one!!!
“Personal shielding is unreliable and dangerous because of how shielding works”
*Battlefront 2 Specialists have joined the chat*
I love that it says No views and 3 comments
Eckhart you should really investigate on this topic the Eternal fleet and Army of Zakuul, fron The Old Republic MMO (a sequel of KOTOR). An army composed mainly of droid troopers, commanded by super AI droids woho control each ship plus an army of knights (Force users) and some aditional human personel.
Also in the game it's frecuently shown that both the Republic and the Sith Empire use droids as support of armies and operations.
Clanker is our word, but you can call us clanka
If I were to build an army in star wars, it would be primarily organic, but I would supplement it with droid units. Vulture droids for some swarm tactics (offensive or defensive) and for escorting drop ships, not only on their way to the surface, but some cover on the ground as well; Droidikas for ship board security (considering I'd use the Lukerkulk as a super carrier/command ship, that rolling speed helps move across such a large ship relatively quickly); and dwarf spider droids as light artillery, useful for sniping individual infantry and some anti air capabilities
I never thought they were absaulete unpopular opinion but I liked them more than the galactic republic
The CIS had honest and honorable goals but the deception and evil of The Sith twisted and perverted it's intentions over time. And all blame cannot be put on The Sith, other leaders amongst the Confederacy of Independent Systems were already tainted souls that sought power and wealth over the good of their people. We really need an animated series from a Separatist POV. Let's be real and agree that TCW was definitely portrayed from a Republic lense/POV. And instead of it just being droids and their leaders being shown throughout this new series it could be organic Separatist Militia or Mercenaries that have found real purpose in this mechanized army fighting for freedom. There's so many routes to take for such a show's plot.
Droids are people too.
Even though most droids in Star Wars don't harbor true emotions or feel it in the same capacity as organics I still get sad when one begs for it's life or wants to be "free"...
I remember getting my hands on an RPG book for Starwars and just looking through the ships section. I was checking on the prices on the x-wing and the y-wing and then I saw the price tag on the Vulture-class Starfighter. Who in the right mind wouldn't buy 3 of these for the price of one tie fighter? You would even have enough money left over for 4 missiles to load one of them out with.
Other plusses:
-Simplified supply lines - no food, only fuel/energy and possible reinforcements, spare parts
-Morale
-No vacation days
-Casualty management - an organic army tends to want to help their injured, and care for them, being a big drain on resources. If a droid army takes losses, but still wins a battle they can scavenge their fallen for parts, rebuild many of them, combining parts from various downed units, leave them behind, pack them up for later, or melt them down for raw materials.
-You touched on the speed of training. That also allows a lot of creativity. Want to try an all sniper kill box defense, flip a few switches, upload a few templates, and off we go. Want to try a firing line the next day, flip flip flip.
-Want your organic staff to be able to tell your variant units apart? Paint funny hats on them.
This is fun!
I seems like the main problem that droids had at the start of the clone wars was scale, they were more suited to small security forces and just increasing the numbers wasn't enough to make them fully effective. Once the droids were improved to work better as armies, they became one of the most cost effective army options, and i like how lore-wise, people in the star wars universe only don't use droids because nobody likes droid armies after the clone wars. It's a quiet admission of the fact that cost effective beats everything in the long run.
In SWTOR the Eternal Empire used a Droid Army, with a small amount of biological life for navy, and Force Users.
Still yes spend the money even if it is costly but have the front lines with heavy armoured and personal shield droids that can take artilary and lightsaber hits.
#askeck How did the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances work differently from the New Republic?
#shipversus Resurgent-class Star Destroyer vs MC85 Star Cruiser
#shipversus Resurgent-class Star Destroyer vs Starhawk-class Battleship
#battlebreakdown Battle of Astarte
#battlebreakdown Battle of Amritsar
Imagine if the droid animation had been stop motion / go motion instead of CGI? The whole damn thing would've looked so much better.
I really like this
One advantage of having droids with built-in blasters: It reduces the dangers of revolt/uprising by the natives/POWs since they won't have a weapon they can pick up and easily use themselves.
Cool video
Given the risk of a rogue droid capital ship I would rather a b1 bridge crew its harder to reprogram 30 droid crew than one droid ship
Or have human pilots that act as a manual override in case the ship gets hacked
@@stevesteve88 Or it could be a bunch of droid programs spiked into the terminals like servers
@@wendigodrude5575 you can hack those but you can't hack people
@@stevesteve88 this is about a droid army
@@wendigodrude5575 you could have a Droid army and ai assistanted navy
At one point, I wrote an entire fan sourcebook for the old Star Wars tabletop RPG set during Xim's empire, which featured the droids from back then which easily outmatched most of what could be thrown against them at the time, with the major downside being that they couldn't be produced at nearly the kind of rate at which the Hutts could throw slaves into some of the meatgrinders of those military campaigns...
“Droid Armies suck”
EckhartsLadder: N O P E
It's probably worth mentioning that radiation does effect and eventually destroy electronics. You can harden them against radiation (as military spec chips are to an extent and space-grade chips are to an even greater extent), but that's expensive, and only delays the inevitable. It also requires lots of redundancy and error correction code to prevent the radiation from flipping bits. It does come down to the type of radiation emitted, of course, whether you can shield against it, but if it's gamma radiation, that's just not realistic, even beta radiation is stretching it.
imagine a timeline where droids wield the force.
Then absolute chaos
Hey @EckhartsLadder, have you ever done a video comparing the CIS from Star Wars to the Geth Consensus from Mass Effect? Having watched this video and hearing your comments on droid armies, I think the Geth take advantage of a lot of what you just described. If you haven't, it does sound like a cool video idea.
Droids are Powerful in Star Wars
What I have learned from studying real world wars and the progression of means of war, (and the fact war never changes) Is simply depending on the demand desire and consequence of those who create and factor war into there wallets and personal reason. For example the early era of war involved rocks and slightly sharper rocks and pointy spears, (this is the means) with the goal of defending themselves from wild animals (the demand), as technology progressed so our total demand to exist was to fight other's like oneself again back to desire to expand or concoure which leads to consequence this would then lead to devolopment and Investment into a specificaly demanded/desired means to destroy and or defend. Jumping forward we now have guns and tanks the means drastically alters the desire of your enemy resulting in the consequence of demanding othere specific weapons to counteract yours which you desired to destroy them in the first place, a tank requires drastically different resources to opperate and causes peoples desire to not get stabbed rather not get blown up, ontop of that givin the current state of proto weapons and trainging resulting in needing numbers not skill because skill was to expensive and hard to achive and numbers overwhelm otheres who also don't have skill and numbers, WW2 for example when the germans where focusing on experementation rather than over all production resulting in them being overwhelmed . Now we have the modern day the complete inverse, now we use a combo of specialized units with extremely refined tech to instead infiltrate and destroy from afar and unseen form drones to remote activated nuclear rockets and cumputer viruses and biological virus( notice how as the means to war is refined, the consequence is greater demand for a more desirable type of army). now we have inter-galactic war fare, we have even more refined means to war and then others like space wizards, steven kings mist esk weird creatures like the raincor, hyper drives freaking lasers, sentience in machines, full on clones, this changes everything on scales we have yet to even come close to witnessing. and givin it invloves a lot of differently advanced species resulting in a more mixed type warfare no matter what planet you fight, hence why sometimes we fight differently on our world when comes to enemy territory or harsher terrain or just unfamilare terrain like vietnam, now the final consequence when it comes to the desire to demand a Droid army results in revolt and easy counteraction givin most worlds are advanced enough to fight back however the fact there all different in fighting styles which means the CIS is back to square WW2 germans, and ontop of that the desire to domninate results in the consequence of vanity and oversights in tactical function due to the initial desire being purely economical hence why they are ussally very cheap, not to mention the struggle to not make to easy for them to just take over due there before mentioned sentience resulting in revolt. Tell me this what If the means of either side of the war were flipped where the republic used droids instead with the aim of quality over quantity and the CIS using clones for quantity over quality.
If you build a droid for every task it could become quite expensive. The logistics become more complicated, you have to do design the droids, upgrade them, repair them, build assembly lines for them, storage and more. Depending on how far you go, a conscripted human army might be cheaper.
Having the same base model doing different tasks with slight modifications to their programming and body has its advantage.
With the Droids having near spontaneous silent communications they would have an insane advantage in any close quarters fights (houses and smaller enclosed space where info is essential)
If you think about it, any planetary defense force or resistance would fall extremely quickly if they fought head on with the massive separatist forces. The flaw however is they can’t effectively adapt to irregular tactics and guerrilla warfare, and it really shows in the films and shows. The gungans went head on against separatist forces and the separatists won. It wasn’t until anakin deployed irregular tactics and went inside the ship that the defense show their flaws. Even in the first invasion of geonosis while the separatists did lose the clone forces faced heavy casualties even while assisted by a large number of Jedi. That’s probably why Anakin became one of if the the most infamous generals to the separatists. The combination of his tactical prowess and ability to use unpredictable measures to change the balance of a battle combined with his exceptional skills in a cockpit and with a lightsaber made him know to many separatist forces.
Warhammer 40k: "Why not both?"
@@papapalps2415 they use bodies that have robotics crammed into it.