Interesting video, the only thing I can't entirely agree with is regen scrap in ror2. It only gets "broken" when you loop or get very lucky, and even then it doesn't get more broken than other items for the same reasons. The lunar shop is the bigger issue in the Newt's Bazaar. You already addressed how you can cheat coins infinitely, thus removing any real cost for them. So you have access to 5 free items between every stage.
@@Jorg_Jorgenson I think regen scrap is a more of a snowballing issue, the lunar items are good but have drawbacks to them, sonorous whispers, is really good but it got nerfed heavily, sale star is very good but its only usable once per stage, they are good but I’d talk about them in length if I made a dedicated risk of rain video
@@drdudeski so if you get lucky and get 5 regen scrap, you get a free red item. If you get sonorous, even nerfed, you get multiple items every stage, scaling quickly because it's based on enemies. And for most of the lunars, they're still just really good even with the downside, and you can get 5 free every stage. I just don't see how regen scrap is ever more broken than any of that.
@@drdudeskiregen scrap is ok but you have to get value out of it, in a vacuum it's not good, in a normal non-looping run it's cool but it doesn't make you win. if you find multiple good cauldrons/printers you win, regen scap or not. as for the lunar shop, it's there but you can ignore it, there are only a few lunars that are broken, but you don't have to buy them, the game gets too easy with them, it's a player's choice, like using artifacts... the only grudge I have with ror2 atm is the new dlc but that's another topic
Getting 5 regen scrap is pretty broken, but the issue is actually getting 5 because there's currently 37 green items and regen scrap printers can't exist, so you'll most likely have to be on a pretty long run to get that many or get very lucky with the bazaar soup and dump 15 white items on it
When it comes to StS and RoR2 these specific combos aren’t meant to be balanced necessarily, when you get lucky you get lucky. It’s like getting an ignition tank printer with artificer or getting the fabled plimp+ICBM+L+Ratio combo. Items like sale star and regen scrap balance their complete lack of offensive power with the ability to get you more power from more items. Something like 5 ATGs can be life changing but 5 regen scrap will also give you a massive bonus. On the topic of lunar coins I am one of those people who’s hacked a lot in, but I don’t stock up on shaped glass every run, I just have the coins for the convenience of getting something from the shop whenever the opportunity strikes right. When it comes to having to choose between these items, I don’t get “not playing optimally”, there’s still that childlike excitement when you get a bunch of regen scrap and you find an opportunity to use it, or when you get the card and courier combo StS. It’s not a complete necessity to get these combos each time, but it’s exciting when it does happen
regen scrap is only op if you are looping (which it looks like you are). looping pretty much breaks everything and makes the game piss easy (unless you are playing with the new twisted elites (ew)), so i dont think its a problem if a usually mid item becomes op if you stack it more than 5 times. all the items that are basically investing items for more items (regen scrap, shipping req form, sale star, etc) are supposed to be better the longer your run goes, so it makes perfect sense to me that they would be way stronger if you loop. card is only the 2nd best equipment, id argue that recycler is stronger and more annoying to use (but i still like them so i guess its just personal preference).
I slightly disagree with the overpowered strategies being a problem. Part of the appeal of rogue comparables is the chance for god runs to happen. So while yes, it is extremely powerful to get a 60% discount on all items in slay the spire, you can't rely on that every run because there's no guarantee that it'll even be an option. Which makes it so that when it does happen, it's very satisfying. On the other hand, things like the executive card in ROR2 really isn't that rare and really isn't that fun, but is still very powerful.
@@drdudeski the enemies get angry and want to attack you, but they also get scared and want to run away, so they do nothing and have an existential crisis instead. Great synergy 👍
honestly with regen scrap I've always felt it was pretty mediocre (unless you loop, but I don't loop), if you do get 5 then yes it does become very useful but getting 5 naturally in a run is pretty rare (and I play 2 player, so that's with basically double the items) and even then you still need to actually get good red soups or green printers. It definitely has its moments but with you really don't see many green printers in the first loop and the times you do get to use it are often on pretty bad printers and soups just because there's more bad items than good ones. Overall I put it above anything I'd just scrap anyway, but below stuff like bands, ATG, uke, and wisp just because there's no way to ensure you're really gonna get anything good out of a couple extra scrap Now what's REALLY busted when it comes to shops in RoR2 is using your infinite lunar coins to get some of the best items in the game (transcendence, tonic and gesture, shaped glass, all the heresy items) for basically free, now THATS something you really have to hold yourself back from getting
Forever my favorite Shop will be ror2 bizarre. I just love the lunar items and how unique they are as a rarity, BUT big BUT its not balanced at all. Isaac has probably the best to me just with how it works and it being like the most basic and boring shop.
The ror2 shop argument doesn't really make tons of sense to me as your issue with it was not the shop but the items. Regen scrap is one of 37 green items as of this video, a rarity that accounts for maybe 1/4th of your items in a typical run. The likelihood that you get 5 BEFORE you become unkillable is incredibly unlikely. The uses of this item also rely on whether you are lucky enough to see a printer for an item and there's little guarantee that the item will be valuable, though that is the balance of the regen scrap. An item that does nothing initially with promise that it will do something eventually. If your problem with the item is that you can simply cheat in lunar coins, which aren't easy to collect a lot of without going out of your way to cheat them in, and go to the shop every stage after you collect 5 or more for a free red. I would say it would also be just as easy to download an item blacklist, so for the sake of argument let's just say we're not editing the game. Lunar coins are limited and how you spend them is what balances things. The typical player isn't going to be absolutely loaded to the point where they'll want to search out the newt altar every stage and trade a coin for what might not even be a red item they care about or is beneficial to their run in any way. I feel like in the video you've somewhat disregarded that you will have to go out of your way to find the newt altar every stage and if you truly NEED those red items to make the difference in your run then using your time to search is in and of itself a downside. Mom's cash back credit card is another one of those items where the value is dictated by the choices of the player. And this item is also a 1 in 40 chance for an interactable that is not guaranteed to show up multiple times on your first loop. I can assume you've played the game a lot and understand the "optimal" choices for getting a good run. Yes, picking up the executive card is better if you are playing through optimally. But not every player goes through and buys out every stage. Not every player make and use just enough money before leaving a stage. Some players might even go through stages faster than they would be able to purchase everything which is where executive card is in a weird balanced but not state. The value of the item is largely decided on how optimally you do things and whether or not the items you're receiving actually bring you value. If you already have a good run before seeing this item then it's impact isn't necessarily huge. If your run is struggling this item can absolutely help you make a comeback. But equipment's value isn't consistent throughout the entirety of runs and they fall in this specific spot that makes the most sense in my opinion. Whether or not it can help you finish your run and whether or not it can help you start it. Eclipse players and people just trying to get to Mithrix as fast as possible is where I find that equipment tends to matter the most and where EC falls flat. Almost every single other equipment provides infinitely more value in these situations simply by doing something actively. In the case of starting a run, executive card will not provide nearly as much value as other options that can help fill gaps in the lack of items you might need such as aoe, damage, movement speed, survivability. It MIGHT give you an item that gives you exactly what you might be lacking in the moment but once again that comes down to luck and you won't be able to guarantee that every time and may even cause the downfall of your run. I'm not trying to say that regen scrap and executive card aren't strong items but a lot of what was said in the video comes down to player agency, skill, and luck. When and where these items are found is not up to the player and when the player does find them they're not always the best possible outcome. And whether or not these things are a problem is dictated by the choices the player makes which reflects the game as a whole. You control the buttons you press. Ultimately I do enjoy when shops are impactful and I think I agree with what you were trying to say. I think maybe your delivery and focus in this video didn't really help convey it too strongly. I did really enjoy the editing though!
Nah that combo is good and you can get it from the shop but it doesn’t really effect the shop (also side note unlocking gestured of the drowned the worst thing ever)
StS Membership card is not as absolutely busted as you're making it out to be. It's obviously very good, if you can get one early and make use of it. But you have to understand that it doesn't actually DO anything. In StS you have a finite amount of gold and shops in the run. The point of shops is to buy something that's actually going to make you stronger, and in a lot of cases, the 150 gold that you pay for membership card is a bad idea if you could just buy something like a clockwork souvenir, or a staple (maybe rare) card that you need for a specific combo. StS is a game where especially at higher difficulties, it's important to take advantages and strength boosts EARLY while the game is still relatively easy, so that you can roll elites and start snowballing with lots of relics and make the later half of the game much easier. Buying membership card is essentially doing the opposite, where you're going to want to save gold and postpone that power spike to later shops when you can buy them out easily. So I'm not saying it's a bad relic, it's good. But the opportunity cost is always something to consider. Same with the courier, being that it literally does nothing until you even make it to the next shop, when that same chest/elite you just reached could have otherwise just given you a tungsten rod (actual best relic in the game imo lol).
Please don’t let my swearing problem be the death of you, I do need to work on the audio of my irl bits tho, thanks for letting me know people other than me notice it
I agree with everything you said on gungeon very well said. On ror2 i agree on the card but i don't find myself getting 5 regen scrap ever unless I'm playing command (only time is if i do a triple mountain shrine and get a bunch of regen scraps that way because they do not appear in printers) Only really in extreme late game might have i have 4 or more normally. For example in your footage you are 2 hours into the run and at that point balance is out the window and youve gone more then 3x over the average time for a run and at that point in the gamr you are doing tens of thousands of dmg without even attacking sometimes so is this even really a complaint in good faith i wouldnt say it is. Slay the spire part is sadly a bit over said but nonetheless true.
I think it’s wild to call anything besides the space between time and shop in ror2 and you are just kinda wrong about the executive card and regen scrap is somewhat situational. Over all I think you have an over simplistic view of discounts at shops.
@@thesupercoach they vary from game to game so I didn’t wanna lock down anything too tight at the beginning of the video, you are right tho my writing needs work
what is the point of cutting to a live shot of your entire face being covered. not to mention muffling your voice with the mask, you might as well just voice over the whole thing, the cutaways only take away from the overall quality of the video
I do agree having my face covered is definitely an issue when it comes to the cutaways so I need to lean more into body comedy during those bits, but, voice over of people in masks don’t sound good, source being hunt down the freeman
Interesting video, the only thing I can't entirely agree with is regen scrap in ror2. It only gets "broken" when you loop or get very lucky, and even then it doesn't get more broken than other items for the same reasons. The lunar shop is the bigger issue in the Newt's Bazaar. You already addressed how you can cheat coins infinitely, thus removing any real cost for them. So you have access to 5 free items between every stage.
Also, there's SotS's most broken item giving away free items.
@@Jorg_Jorgenson I think regen scrap is a more of a snowballing issue, the lunar items are good but have drawbacks to them, sonorous whispers, is really good but it got nerfed heavily, sale star is very good but its only usable once per stage, they are good but I’d talk about them in length if I made a dedicated risk of rain video
@@drdudeski so if you get lucky and get 5 regen scrap, you get a free red item. If you get sonorous, even nerfed, you get multiple items every stage, scaling quickly because it's based on enemies. And for most of the lunars, they're still just really good even with the downside, and you can get 5 free every stage. I just don't see how regen scrap is ever more broken than any of that.
@@Jorg_Jorgenson again dedicated video discussion, also I think regen scrap is by far the best green item, not the best item
@@drdudeskiregen scrap is ok but you have to get value out of it, in a vacuum it's not good, in a normal non-looping run it's cool but it doesn't make you win. if you find multiple good cauldrons/printers you win, regen scap or not. as for the lunar shop, it's there but you can ignore it, there are only a few lunars that are broken, but you don't have to buy them, the game gets too easy with them, it's a player's choice, like using artifacts... the only grudge I have with ror2 atm is the new dlc but that's another topic
Getting 5 regen scrap is pretty broken, but the issue is actually getting 5 because there's currently 37 green items and regen scrap printers can't exist, so you'll most likely have to be on a pretty long run to get that many or get very lucky with the bazaar soup and dump 15 white items on it
When it comes to StS and RoR2 these specific combos aren’t meant to be balanced necessarily, when you get lucky you get lucky. It’s like getting an ignition tank printer with artificer or getting the fabled plimp+ICBM+L+Ratio combo. Items like sale star and regen scrap balance their complete lack of offensive power with the ability to get you more power from more items. Something like 5 ATGs can be life changing but 5 regen scrap will also give you a massive bonus. On the topic of lunar coins I am one of those people who’s hacked a lot in, but I don’t stock up on shaped glass every run, I just have the coins for the convenience of getting something from the shop whenever the opportunity strikes right. When it comes to having to choose between these items, I don’t get “not playing optimally”, there’s still that childlike excitement when you get a bunch of regen scrap and you find an opportunity to use it, or when you get the card and courier combo StS. It’s not a complete necessity to get these combos each time, but it’s exciting when it does happen
actually a very interesting topic to discuss
cheers
Thanks man
regen scrap is only op if you are looping (which it looks like you are). looping pretty much breaks everything and makes the game piss easy (unless you are playing with the new twisted elites (ew)), so i dont think its a problem if a usually mid item becomes op if you stack it more than 5 times. all the items that are basically investing items for more items (regen scrap, shipping req form, sale star, etc) are supposed to be better the longer your run goes, so it makes perfect sense to me that they would be way stronger if you loop.
card is only the 2nd best equipment, id argue that recycler is stronger and more annoying to use (but i still like them so i guess its just personal preference).
great video!! keep up the good work!!
You have actually rated a game mechanic AND made it hilarious along the way. Subscribed.
I slightly disagree with the overpowered strategies being a problem. Part of the appeal of rogue comparables is the chance for god runs to happen. So while yes, it is extremely powerful to get a 60% discount on all items in slay the spire, you can't rely on that every run because there's no guarantee that it'll even be an option. Which makes it so that when it does happen, it's very satisfying. On the other hand, things like the executive card in ROR2 really isn't that rare and really isn't that fun, but is still very powerful.
the fear mug is busted
@@KatToTheFourth it combos well with the bowl of anger
@@drdudeski the enemies get angry and want to attack you, but they also get scared and want to run away, so they do nothing and have an existential crisis instead. Great synergy 👍
honestly with regen scrap I've always felt it was pretty mediocre (unless you loop, but I don't loop), if you do get 5 then yes it does become very useful but getting 5 naturally in a run is pretty rare (and I play 2 player, so that's with basically double the items) and even then you still need to actually get good red soups or green printers. It definitely has its moments but with you really don't see many green printers in the first loop and the times you do get to use it are often on pretty bad printers and soups just because there's more bad items than good ones. Overall I put it above anything I'd just scrap anyway, but below stuff like bands, ATG, uke, and wisp just because there's no way to ensure you're really gonna get anything good out of a couple extra scrap
Now what's REALLY busted when it comes to shops in RoR2 is using your infinite lunar coins to get some of the best items in the game (transcendence, tonic and gesture, shaped glass, all the heresy items) for basically free, now THATS something you really have to hold yourself back from getting
Forever my favorite Shop will be ror2 bizarre. I just love the lunar items and how unique they are as a rarity, BUT big BUT its not balanced at all. Isaac has probably the best to me just with how it works and it being like the most basic and boring shop.
The ror2 shop argument doesn't really make tons of sense to me as your issue with it was not the shop but the items.
Regen scrap is one of 37 green items as of this video, a rarity that accounts for maybe 1/4th of your items in a typical run. The likelihood that you get 5 BEFORE you become unkillable is incredibly unlikely. The uses of this item also rely on whether you are lucky enough to see a printer for an item and there's little guarantee that the item will be valuable, though that is the balance of the regen scrap. An item that does nothing initially with promise that it will do something eventually.
If your problem with the item is that you can simply cheat in lunar coins, which aren't easy to collect a lot of without going out of your way to cheat them in, and go to the shop every stage after you collect 5 or more for a free red. I would say it would also be just as easy to download an item blacklist, so for the sake of argument let's just say we're not editing the game. Lunar coins are limited and how you spend them is what balances things. The typical player isn't going to be absolutely loaded to the point where they'll want to search out the newt altar every stage and trade a coin for what might not even be a red item they care about or is beneficial to their run in any way. I feel like in the video you've somewhat disregarded that you will have to go out of your way to find the newt altar every stage and if you truly NEED those red items to make the difference in your run then using your time to search is in and of itself a downside.
Mom's cash back credit card is another one of those items where the value is dictated by the choices of the player. And this item is also a 1 in 40 chance for an interactable that is not guaranteed to show up multiple times on your first loop.
I can assume you've played the game a lot and understand the "optimal" choices for getting a good run. Yes, picking up the executive card is better if you are playing through optimally. But not every player goes through and buys out every stage. Not every player make and use just enough money before leaving a stage. Some players might even go through stages faster than they would be able to purchase everything which is where executive card is in a weird balanced but not state. The value of the item is largely decided on how optimally you do things and whether or not the items you're receiving actually bring you value. If you already have a good run before seeing this item then it's impact isn't necessarily huge. If your run is struggling this item can absolutely help you make a comeback.
But equipment's value isn't consistent throughout the entirety of runs and they fall in this specific spot that makes the most sense in my opinion. Whether or not it can help you finish your run and whether or not it can help you start it. Eclipse players and people just trying to get to Mithrix as fast as possible is where I find that equipment tends to matter the most and where EC falls flat. Almost every single other equipment provides infinitely more value in these situations simply by doing something actively. In the case of starting a run, executive card will not provide nearly as much value as other options that can help fill gaps in the lack of items you might need such as aoe, damage, movement speed, survivability. It MIGHT give you an item that gives you exactly what you might be lacking in the moment but once again that comes down to luck and you won't be able to guarantee that every time and may even cause the downfall of your run.
I'm not trying to say that regen scrap and executive card aren't strong items but a lot of what was said in the video comes down to player agency, skill, and luck. When and where these items are found is not up to the player and when the player does find them they're not always the best possible outcome. And whether or not these things are a problem is dictated by the choices the player makes which reflects the game as a whole. You control the buttons you press.
Ultimately I do enjoy when shops are impactful and I think I agree with what you were trying to say. I think maybe your delivery and focus in this video didn't really help convey it too strongly. I did really enjoy the editing though!
Have you played tiny rogues? It's really good.
Nope but it looks fun, I’ll grab it during a sale
I thought he was for sure gonna talk about spinel tonic and gestured of the drowned in risk of rain 2
Nah that combo is good and you can get it from the shop but it doesn’t really effect the shop (also side note unlocking gestured of the drowned the worst thing ever)
nice video, really liked the mug
I don't think that's the effect its supposed to have
good video !! keep it up i’ll sub 👏🏼
StS Membership card is not as absolutely busted as you're making it out to be. It's obviously very good, if you can get one early and make use of it. But you have to understand that it doesn't actually DO anything. In StS you have a finite amount of gold and shops in the run. The point of shops is to buy something that's actually going to make you stronger, and in a lot of cases, the 150 gold that you pay for membership card is a bad idea if you could just buy something like a clockwork souvenir, or a staple (maybe rare) card that you need for a specific combo. StS is a game where especially at higher difficulties, it's important to take advantages and strength boosts EARLY while the game is still relatively easy, so that you can roll elites and start snowballing with lots of relics and make the later half of the game much easier. Buying membership card is essentially doing the opposite, where you're going to want to save gold and postpone that power spike to later shops when you can buy them out easily. So I'm not saying it's a bad relic, it's good. But the opportunity cost is always something to consider. Same with the courier, being that it literally does nothing until you even make it to the next shop, when that same chest/elite you just reached could have otherwise just given you a tungsten rod (actual best relic in the game imo lol).
Great vid man! Keep up the good work
@@Keeby24 I feel like I know you from somewhere
Lol, good intro. Subscribed
Fun topic too dude, keep these coming
That’s the plan as long as I don’t die an unfortunate and sudden death
@@drdudeski boy that would sure throw a wrench into things, but what are the odds such a whacky zany outcome could occur
@@RiseSoup probably very low considering my good health, habits, and area I live in, but you never know what this wacky world has in store for me
You are becoming more and more like Scott the woz every video
@@i_drew_a_ladybug I think I’m more like Kwite personally
@@drdudeski you right
Good vid
take a shot every time he says fuck
also you should have your mic closer in the cutaway shots
did love the video tho
Please don’t let my swearing problem be the death of you, I do need to work on the audio of my irl bits tho, thanks for letting me know people other than me notice it
@@drdudeski my alcoholic tendencies will rage on regardless of your involvement, don’t you worry
I agree with everything you said on gungeon very well said.
On ror2 i agree on the card but i don't find myself getting 5 regen scrap ever unless I'm playing command (only time is if i do a triple mountain shrine and get a bunch of regen scraps that way because they do not appear in printers) Only really in extreme late game might have i have 4 or more normally. For example in your footage you are 2 hours into the run and at that point balance is out the window and youve gone more then 3x over the average time for a run and at that point in the gamr you are doing tens of thousands of dmg without even attacking sometimes so is this even really a complaint in good faith i wouldnt say it is.
Slay the spire part is sadly a bit over said but nonetheless true.
I think it’s wild to call anything besides the space between time and shop in ror2 and you are just kinda wrong about the executive card and regen scrap is somewhat situational. Over all I think you have an over simplistic view of discounts at shops.
hey, i know this guy from somewhere!
hey, i might know this guy form somewhere
I think you need to work on your script a bit more. I was several minutes in and still didn't know your problem with roguelite shops.
@@thesupercoach they vary from game to game so I didn’t wanna lock down anything too tight at the beginning of the video, you are right tho my writing needs work
what is the point of cutting to a live shot of your entire face being covered. not to mention muffling your voice with the mask, you might as well just voice over the whole thing, the cutaways only take away from the overall quality of the video
Cuz it's fun, killjoy
thats his schtick
I do agree having my face covered is definitely an issue when it comes to the cutaways so I need to lean more into body comedy during those bits, but, voice over of people in masks don’t sound good, source being hunt down the freeman
@@s1s1l1skothis guy gets it
It’s about the character design