$40,000 Thermal Camera - Watching Engines Warm Up
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- Опубликовано: 7 мар 2017
- Watching Cold Engines Warm Up With A Thermal Camera
Flir One Thermal Camera - amzn.to/2j2gnNh
Full Unedited 15 Minute Warm Up - • Thermal Camera Engine ...
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Products Used:
FLIR T1K Camera - amzn.to/2mgV8XS
Temperature Datalogger - amzn.to/2n3NPDe
Garmin 4K Camera Used - amzn.to/2fZSSQ0
Data Overlay OBD2 Link - amzn.to/2fZMYi3
Watching two different engines warm up using a $40,000 Flir T1K thermal camera. The cold starts we’ll be observing include a 2016 Subaru Crosstrek on the left, which has a 2 liter boxer four-cylinder engine, and a 2002 Honda S2000 on the right, which has a 2 liter inline-four cylinder engine.
All of the temperature data points, one through five, represent the exact same thing for each vehicle, measured in Celsius. Point one is the exterior temperature of the oil filter, point 2 is the heater core coolant line, point three is the top radiator hose, point four is the front of the engine block, and point five is the intake manifold, before the air is distributed to each of the cylinders. Both of the engines start at the exact same time, so you can compare these figures directly based on the time stamp shown on screen.
On the right of each of the thermal images is a sliding scale, which adapts to the image and shows the temperature range on screen. The bottom number, in Celsius, and wherever there are dark spots, represents the coldest area. The top number, and wherever there are white spots, represents the hottest area.
Beneath their respective videos, we also have the air intake temperature, coolant temperature, and engine RPM read directly from the vehicle. For the duration of the video, the temperature of the ambient air around the car remained at about 7 degrees Celsius.
Finally, I’ve added a plot in the bottom right corner showing oil temperature with respect to time. This temperature comes from a thermal probe inserted down each of the vehicles dipstick tubes.
By this point, you can start to see that the intake manifold temperatures, point number 5, differ for each. The Crosstrek has a plastic manifold, elevated away from the engine, which does a better job of keeping intake temperatures down versus the aluminum manifold of the Honda, which is tucked within the engine bay and close to heat sources. By the end of the video, the Subaru has over a 20 degree advantage in intake temperatures versus the Honda, and yes, both of them are still pulling in the exact same 7 degree ambient air.
EMISSIVITY NOTE: For anyone concerned about emissivity and the temperatures you're witnessing, I just did a quick test in my kitchen to verify the temps we're seeing. I took a sheet of paper (emissivity ~0.9+) and a sheet of aluminum foil (emissivity ~0.05), while the camera was set for an emissivity of 0.95. The camera accurately read the temperature of both items (about 20 deg C). Then I switched the camera's emissivity to 0.04. The aluminum foil's temp then varied widely, from 0 deg C to 50 deg C (it was still at 20 deg C, the temperature inside my home), while the sheet of paper now incorrectly read 30 deg C. To me, this shows that with the camera set at 0.95 for emissivity, readings will be accurate, and it has a way of calibrating for various emissivity coefficients of what's in view. This video was recorded with emissivity set at 0.95.
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If anyone is interested in the full warm up - no time lapse, no voiceover, no music; just pure data shoved at your brain for a continuous 15 minutes, I’m here for you! Here’s the link: ruclips.net/video/W6_lv2UNQAg/видео.html
EMISSIVITY NOTE: For anyone concerned about emissivity and the temperatures you're witnessing, I just did a quick test in my kitchen to verify the temps we're seeing. I took a sheet of paper (emissivity ~0.9+) and a sheet of aluminum foil (emissivity ~0.05), while the camera was set for an emissivity of 0.95. The camera accurately read the temperature of both items (about 20 deg C). Then I switched the camera's emissivity to 0.04. The aluminum foil's temp then varied widely, from 0 deg C to 50 deg C (it was still at 20 deg C, the temperature inside my home), while the sheet of paper now incorrectly read 30 deg C. To me, this shows that with the camera set at 0.95 for emissivity, readings will be accurate, and it has a way of calibrating for various emissivity coefficients of what's in view. This video was recorded with emissivity set at 0.95.
Engineering Explained why were you licking your arm....
@engineer explained what about electric engines?
Bruh, just Google it. In the time it took you to write your comment, you could've searched "emissivity" and answered your own question.
Engineering Explained Why do you recommend not letting the car/engine warm up before driving? I was under the impression that it is preferred to warm the engine before driving because the engine fluids are at operating temperatures. Warm/hot oil ect. will provide better protection against engine wear?
blubyu there are various reasons why it is best to drive your vehicle, albeit in a tame fashion, 30-60 seconds after you start it. as far as the fluids go, and in particular engine oil, they are designed to work ok at low temperatures. believe it or not your cylinder walls are not perfectly round. they are oblong because the block is not equally thick in all directions and therefore expands with heat by different amounts in different directions. The engine is designed to work BEST at operating temperature and acceptable on cold starts. The longer your engine runs while its cold and the piston rings and cylinder walls haven't fully expanded, the more exhaust gas blows by the rings and mixes with the engine oil. The fastest way to heat your engine is to drive it because more fuel is burned and thus more heat is made. As EE showed even after 15 minutes the transmissions has not received all that heat from the engine and is still many degrees away from operating temperature. The piston "blow by" when running cold is one reason "short trips" and "stop and go" are considered "severe" operating conditions which require shorter oil drain intervals. Both cause more mixing of exhaust gases with the oil which in turn changes the oil unfavorably.
Legend said that if VTEC kicked in yoo the camera will break
LA of LA no doubt lol
Crush camera or your face?:)
..."No doubt the S2000 is a better looking vehicle"
Kyle Chambers no doubt, no doubt lol 😅
I stopped watching the video just at that moment lol
Kyle Chambers The s2k may be hotter, but the subie is cooler 😎
s2k all the way
Nail on the head.
This is why I love EE, I would have never thought I needed this information till I saw this video!
you don't. It's just cool to know.
If you're the type to hop in and stomp the gas, it's pretty helpful to know that even after warming up, the transmission is still pretty much ice cold.
Well yes if you don't drive the car while it warms up. If you drive it gently the transmission will warm up too.
This^ also if you drive manual you can feel the tranny oil getting thinner and easy to change gears. The transmission seems to warm up quicker than the engine on my car.
The drive belt gets much more hot than I expected!
Cars Simplified ikr hard to believe it lasts so long being rubber and being that hot all the time
I love how he said the S2000 is a better looking vehicle. S2k love!
This was really cool to watch, great job Jason!
Thanks Matt!
This video is an engineer's wet dream. Data occupying nearly 100% of the screen. God bless.
Haha, yeah. While editing I kept think, ugh... this is way too much data. I think it's cool, but it can certainly be overwhelming.
love that subtle touch of humor you insert here and there
love your videos, I'm at my 2nd year at my first engineering job in the automotive world and I absolutely love doing analysis projects like this! keep up the great videos!
That OBD data feed just triggers my inner geek :D
Jake Fuller Though, it would have been more readable if the RPM had been shown as average over 1 second or so.
Do you know how that is displayed is it an app or something ?
I wish we could do Slow Motion in Thermal. I love this camera
I read somewhere that you can with this camera, but it will record at a lower resolution. I think 120/240 fps was possible, but I also believe there is additional hardware needed to make it happen.
Engineering Explained well imagine filming like friction welding or something with our Phantom Flex 4K, or the Phantom v2512 , would be cool if there was some type of thermal filter to put in between the camera and the subject.
You can do slow motion thermal.
The FLIR X6900sc does 640x512 at 1000 frames per second.
It costs about as much as your Flex4K, if not more. Oh, and each lens is around $3-5k.
Nice job. A huge car nut here. I am constantly amazed at how much of a compromise internal combustion engines are. In this video, I see all that fuel being converted to heat!
Amazing content with meaningful analysis of a lot of data that you had there. Great Job Mate! Loved the video.
Super interesting video! Thanks for the comprehensive information shown! Top job mate!
Thank you I really appreciate you sharing this thermal camera footage!
A geek fact about emissivity: if the hot plate of your clothes iron is metallic and shiny smooth, it will not show at all on a thermal camera (the emissivity is 0). Even if you set the iron for 200C, all the camera will see is a 'mirror' reflecting the much cooler thermal sources from around the room.
Also, hot (normal) air doesn't show up (e.g. from a heater element); the atoms/molecules are far too small for absorption or emission of 'thermal' wavelengths.
This is by far one of the best videos you've made. Really enjoyed it! Thank you. :)
Really appreciate it! Took quite a long time to make. :)
wow the best video seen in a while. love the high definition of that 40k thermo camera. thanks for sharing ;)
Awesome video. This is the stuff I love to see, thanks for sharing this.
This is nice. Makes me think about the expansion and the compression of the metal as the engine runs trough its heat cycles troughout its life, and the heat and how it dissipates to all the plastic components around them.
excellent video, the thermal camera was a great asset to this knowledge to this acquisition.
Great editing! Keep up the great videos
I like the very professional look this video has, and I hope to see more thermal video in the future :D
your jokes cracked me up xD Good stuff man..been following you for a while. With the content you make (all your videos) plus some researching, someone could make a decently fast and reliable vehicle.
We use similar equipement at work for our Hi-Power test on jet engines but nothing that come close to it as far as the resolution, its pretty amazing!!!
airflow while driving with closed hood (bonnet) is waay different. and some manufacturers actually take that in account while designing (like bmw). maybe with the hood closed and driving at least 30mph s2000 can have lower temps than subaru. i am not saying that is a fact, just a scenario that would be interesting to test and compare with these results. and small edit... transmission is stationary now. while driving friction could warm it up faster?
Great Vid; love stuff like this EE
It would also be interesting to see the old subaru Metal intake vs the current plastic one
Excellent presentation!
You just presented a master's thesis in a 5 minute video!
For free!! to the public!!!
wow!! well done and thank you!
Haha, I don't know about that, but it is a ton of data packed into 5 minutes!
$40k camera, $10k car
i'm impressed how long it takes to warm up an engine... never flat out before 20-25 min of warming !!
I love your vids man!! So enjoyable :D
Engineering Explained: taking idling around the garage to new levels.
I wanna buy one just so i know when something is too hot to touch. Definitely worth the $40 camera you got
This is why I love Jayson.
It would be fun to see the same data points while the vehicles were moving at preset route... Just to see what the difference would be... No thermal camera would be acceptable ...
Just what I wanted to see after your last video. (Oil temperatures vs Time)
Thanks!
The real star of this video is that camera. That thing is drool worthy.
Coolest Videos ever, so much interesting data :)
Congratulations on 1 million subscribers!
best video ever! hands down
Cool video. Would be super interesting, and probably difficult, to get the same data in an extreme driving scenario like a track day. Great content keep it up.
very interesting. That explains what is going on with our outback. good point on the transmission. I'm a racer and I wonder now if different cars have an advantage in how they cool the internals. well done.
Fantastic video!!!!
Thanks for Celcius
SwisssBolla I actually think it's spelled : sellsious.
cellseaus*
Wow.. shame on me. It didn't looked right, but I was to lazy to google xD
Lost in the Celciauss
Nicco Borgioli
Why sell-serious?
Awesome video!!!
You are the best with no doubt!
Very nice! Thanks
Just amazing!!!
I just ordered their One Pro to be arriving tomorrow 🙏
I think this is an excellent example of bore and stroke on thermodynamic efficiency. The Subaru has a square bore to stroke ratio, whereas the S2000 is slightly oversquare meaning the bore is larger than the stroke. I'm actually surprised the F20C motor isn't more oversquare considering it's high rev limit. Anyway, the increased surface area of the oversquare motor means greater heat transfer in the combustion cylinder to the walls of the cylinder, partially contributing to the S2000's motor warming up too.
Another funny thing is EE has a preference for cars with motors that have codes "F20", with the Subaru having the FA20 and the S2000 having the F20C motor.
nice demostration
awesome video, thaks for using metric units...
Here's the scientific side of engineering. As an R & D engineer, I've performed similar heat transfer studies several times, but with thermocouples and thermistors, not thermal cameras. R & D means researching with tests and data analysis *before* developing a machine, instrument or process. The research is the science, development is the art; engineering ties them together. This is a very interesting video!
Glad you enjoyed the video!
Fun fact: I've built those cameras and now work as a service engineer for Flir. =D
Awesome! It's an incredible product!
See if you can borrow one of the cryo cooled (operational temperature of the detector is about 80 Kelvin - brr) HD units like the X8000SC or something. Those buggers are insane. With a CO2 filter you could watch your car breathe.
Granted - the price will need another 0 or two at the end of it, hehe. Being knee deep in these things all day I get a bit blind to the fact that, at the end of the day, they cost roughly an arm and a couple of legs. =P
Tony McModeNut So, can you tell what makes thermal cameras so expensive? Is it the material used for the lense, which I haven't seen used elsewhere, or is it something else? Like smaller number of units over which the design costs are spread, compared to consumer products?
From what I've learned of the unit, it comes down to the image sensor. Thermal sensor pixels are about 10x as large as traditional digital camera sensors, so the sensors are extraordinarily expensive.
All of the above, really. The lenses (made from germanium) are a big cost. Certainly when you have units with insane lenses like 1000mm continous zoom that can detect a human at up to 20-30 kilometers.
As is the detector (sensor) - especially in the cryo cooled units. The precision work that goes into those coolers is amazing. And, like you said, the market (in terms of volume) is way smaller than normal cameras.
I probably need to be a bit careful about specifics, hehe, but the camera used in this video, for example, is assembled and tested from start to finish by about ten or so people. Very nice people, at that. =)
Very nice!
Hi Jason, great experiment again! However, I find it would be clearer to use a fixed manual temperature scaling to see the evolution of the engine warming up. Granted the contrast is better with automatic scaling but then we cannot directly compare the two engines.
how hot does a timing belt get and how hot do the cam sprockets get? my cam sprockets are too hot to touch after engine has been running for an hour.
Cool vid!
Very cool!
So cool👍🏼👍🏼
Inagine if it was possible to gauge all your 5 points with the hood closed. But it seems you need to have the hood opened to aim and to assign your 5 points. Love your channel. Thanks
Nice controlled side by side experiment. Apples to Apples.
Head warms up fast on the S2k :)
Great video! MORE I TELL YA!
more of this with more different cars!
So how long should I warm up my 6.6 duramax twin turbo diesel engine?
this man is crazy.
EE, do you think most of the intake temperature on the s2k is due to the throttle body cold-weather heating, or from direct conduction from the head? I.e. better to get a phelonic spacer or bypass coolant to the throttle body in warm seasons?
I'm hoping for a complete EGR run down with all the modern CRD engines. I hear the science goes beyond just emission control...
I'm a simple man. I see VTEC, I like the video.
Would be interesting to see this test again in summer, to see how quickly the cars get up to temp. I'm always wondered how close operating temperature the oil would be in my car on a 40C day within a few minutes of normal driving.
Why did you measure the oil temperature with a seperate device instead of the ODB2 scan tool listed in the video description? Is the oil temperature data not available through the ODB2 scan tool?
this is a really interesting video and it sparks a question:do engine temps depend on the piston layout?
Thanks for the video. Is there a chance you do this on a Hybrid that has an EGHR to show how quicker these engines warm up and stay warm? I'd be very curious to see how it works.
Your logo made me a Believer!
May i ask after 5 mins of cold start , is that the difference btw coolant temperature and oil temperature is small or huge?
in regards to intake temp readings isnt the subaru intake temp sensor built into the air flow meter? so it will be in the intake pipe close to the air box away from the hot engine. the honda would most likely be fitted in the manifold closer to the engine giving a higher reading.
Hmmm I'm in the process of turbo charging my s2000, do you think it would be a good idea to send my intake manifold off to be ceramic coated? Would this help intake temps?
Appreciate Your effort , great video , good quantity data ! It would appear that when an engine is not working to hard , in this case idling ,the oil temperature will almost certainly not exceed the coolant temperature. So exessive [idling] will not really raise the oil temperature to 100degC where an oil is able to work probably and importantly water /moisture can evaporate off. 5 minutes looks sufficient for those owners who appreciate warming their engines .Graeme
I do not mean to impose, but here's a suggestion: configure a set scale for the temperature color.
It seems that every video online suffers from this, and no one seems to think about it. It is very weird to the eye when a belt warms up to the exhaust temperatures almost immediately. And as part warm up further, it appears as if they were cooling down instead. A set scale would allow to observe the actual rate and differences in temperature. Particularly in case of comparison videos.
As always, thank you for your work!
I had the same thought, until I tried it, which might be why so many of these videos use a sliding scale. Unfortunately, when you use a set scale, the image quality seems to be pretty poor because the camera doesn't differentiate temperatures well, so all you see is a dark, undefined mess. Only when temperatures start to get close to the high of your scale, does it start to show clearly. Using a sliding scale allows you to observe all of the components without all the colors running together, so you get a much sharper image.
I guess battery leads on the S2000 is one of those things that would be lost in a set scale. The hot spot on the rocker cover would also be lost.
That's a shame. There's nearly a 50% difference in the middle of the video. I guess it would be great if the sale would equal at a given moment.
Perhaps Flir should have the ability to adjust the scale in post (wishful thinking, I know).
Very nice statistics.
You should test intake temperature with and without thermal wrapping and if wrapping plastic and aluminum intakes makes a difference between the two
i did the coolant bypass mod on my MY02...i wonder if it made a noticeable difference..
That is a nice Fleer camera you have there... lol
excellent! :D
very cool !
@4:03 HA! Good one Jason! :)
in my country 4 seasons is summer, i normally takes less than 1 minute to warm up my engine, is that okay?
To calculate the temperatures at various points through the thermal camera you must have kept in mind about the thermal emissivity of materials which is to be set in the thermal camera. So what emissivity you kept?
Can u please explain the differences between, Torsion beam and Coupled torsion beam axle with coil spring Suspensions and the advantages of them on each other.
I will get the new CAT S61 phone on friday when it comes to shelves. Res is less than this one but the range shoul work
Really awesome and interesting video, I actually have been wondering this very thing ever since you talked about how long should you idle before taking off because I've been having some idling issues with my 9-3 Aero. Mine actually doesn't go below 1800 RPM no matter how warm it gets. Is that a function of the Turbo or not normal? Crazy how if you wait long enough on the internet your niche need is met.
Still winter has had to have been hard on you.
You should perform this test on a older carbureted engine. Also would be cool to compare a liquid cooled sport bike motorcycle to an air-cooled V-Twin.
awesome. not sure if I'd use one
I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison of a petrol and diesel engine warming up. The diesel would take forever, but it'd be pretty interesting.
Engineering Explained I removed the thermostat of my car because I live in a very hot area, the car hasn´t have any problems for 4 years running this way, but should I warm it up now that it doesn´t have a coolant thermostat?
How slow are these engines to warm up... My 2015 Volkswagen Polo warms up completely in about 5 minutes (the coolant temperature reaches 90 degrees in this period of time).
I don't understand why it takes so long for both cars to rev down. I had the same feeling on the previous "cold start" video. It is not so cold outside and it take really "ages" for the cars to idle at normal RPM. Is that specific to the US ? In Europe, I never had a "modern" car rev up more than 30 s. at maximum 1500 rpm and then idling to the normal rpm (around 800). I tried again last week with my 2014 petrol Volvo at 0°C (temperature of freezing water) that stayed all night outside at the cold. Same for many other cars. Can it be because of the boot open (the car think it is at the workshop) or because of emission regulations different in the US ?