But they don't know that and plus they have Joseph Prince to deepen the illusion that God is doing something special and people saying they feel it they feel it!!
@@paulc7190 if gift are the gospel then you believe in the blue genine from bethel and grave soaking. And the lgbtq movement cause even andy say they got more faith then he has. They have gifts that been overlooked by traditional Christians. If Christians is all about gift move to islam they will tell you of might gift!!!!
Jesse I’m a 65yr old man who was regenerated in Oct of 1985. We have been through many “church” experiences since then including the Toronto Blessing, laughing, and up to Bethel style learning to operate in the gifts. As I listened to this RUclips tonight I couldn’t stop crying with you. I learned to LOVE Jesus through this movement and am having difficulty finding anywhere close to the same level of love I had in the past. I’m absolutely a believer but it is so different it’s hard to reconcile my emotional belief to the way I see things now. I weep with you brother and thank you for at least trying to articulate your experience for other’s. I most relate to your statement of trying to make it work for so long, I did the same thing and desperately wanted to see God “Move” but finally realized He was moving every day in my life. Thank you for your speaking out about this. If we don’t have the Jesus of the Bible we are going to Hell that’s the bottom line, we need to know the Jesus of the Bible or we are just worshiping an idea of who we think He is. Thanks
Amen!!! Praise the Lord! My story is much like yours except mine was the Word of Faith movement for 11 years. I spend my time helping those who have come to the saving knowledge of the true Jesus Christ. Praying for you brother and am so glad you got out of this as well!
I am 67 years old. And for 35 years was involved in all the movements that you're speaking about above. A couple years ago my pastor at the time wanted us to do a study on Matthew 24. As I began to study I went beyond my religious boundaries so to speak and began to look and listen to other Christian brothers and sisters in the Lord. I came upon Holly Pivecs book, Super Apostles. Actually it turned my world upside down. For a couple years I couldn't even identify who I was. I was so engulfed into the emotionalism and mysticism of these movements. It has shook my world but I am so grateful to God. My prayer is that we may all be found standing on The Rock because the winds are surely blowing. God bless you
I think that “Love” feeling is a projection of who we think God is. I have so much suffering and sadness at things I’ve missed out on trying to follow God, missed out on partner and family trying to follow God. All those emotional experiences that I thought were a relationship with God is just emotional experiences. This life is suffering until I’m with him in heaven. Then he’ll make up for it all. In the meantime, the emotions go up and down, and don’t mean that much.
@@lindaholloman125 Well, then I am glad you found her book! She recently released one over the New Apostolic Reformation called “The Counterfeit Kingdom.” Praise the Lord you found the truth. I will be praying for you 🙏🏻
Your resume as a former Bethel worship leader is a huge street cred. Your insights and telling us the behind the scenes strategies is just something we would've never guessed or known. You're uniquely qualified to speak about this stuff! Don't ever let anyone or any technical hiccups discourage you. You're doing an enormous amount of work in record time, studying theology while responding to current events and developing this channel... while being husband and dad of 4 little ones. Give yourself grace and take breaks. Your heart and your instincts are right. Praying for you!
I so appreciate you, brother. Countless people all over are processing similar things as you when it comes to NAR. I could tell stories for days… Your tears are precious to our Father!
Would love to connect. Moved our family from WA to Redding for Bethel. My husband followed them since about 1995. I started when we married in 2003. Reworking our theology is VALID!! Came out of membership with Bethel during the pandemic. So many red flags popped up before our journey out. We feel God has opened our eyes and literally have been rescued!
My brother. My husband and I can relate to what you are walking through. The NAR, charismatic, signs and wonders, prosperity ideology claims to be "freedom and non-religious." In truth, it is bondage, pressure, uncertainty, anxiety and works. Freedom is in trusting God's Word and submitting to God's authority. To know that we don't have to believe harder, dance faster, sing louder, in order to measure up to the level of success, power, health that is not promised to us in scripture. Letting go of the pressure to "create an experience" and resting in His providence has been a very difficult adjustment. The panic that we aren't enough or aren't doing enough, or we might "miss something God is doing" can be paralyzing. The NAR works against the beauty and holiness of simple faith in our perfect Father. Please pray for us, as will we for you.
Wow. Such a compassionate and articulate video... I know you were a bit self-conscious about your "ugly crying", but I think your heartbreak speaks so much to your character and to your tenderness. Many in the cessationist "discernment" crowd would be wise to learn from your gentle approach. Praying for you... 🙏🏼
I agree on Mr. Westwood’s gentleness although I do appreciate the bluntness in the discernment crowd after the wishy-washy language of the NAR crowd. 😅
@@ab-gail it's not the bluntness for me as much as it is the contentious "bone to pick" mentality that not all, but some *definitely* have (won't name names here). If nearly every "discernment" video is a grievance, rant, or guns-blazing negative discourse - with anger and sarcasm instead of tact and compassion - that's only going to turn off the very people who need to be rescued from the movement IMO.
@@faith_reframed hey westwood got bad news no it will get much worst we would be the minority force to hide. Not the majestic army like all prophet has spoken today. The global church needs to be under the kingdom of darkness cause that is what been said in the bible look at revelation. Do you super army a church conquering land no. You see a persecuted church dripped in blood.
Your attitude is golden: a person of peace trying to uncover God's truth. Truth is usually uncomfortable.Thank you for your thoughtful insights on these important matters.
I was raised in this. Chris Rosebrough explained it well describing it like surfers. Always looking for the next big wave, will travel to catch it. A big high followed by a drop where you’re searching for years for that same experience. I had lots of very self centered emotional experiences. But when I finally understood the whole gospel and went to a reformed, cessationist church, worship was another experience altogether. The depth of the gospel in every word of every hymn. The reminder of God’s mercy and grace in the depth of hymns and exegetical preaching. For months, I sobbed during worship. My voice still breaks mid song often. It’s not a roller coaster trajectory, it’s a growth trajectory. And I am so thankful for the overwhelming peace that comes from God’s beautiful scripture.
I just have to tell you Jesse that I was listening to this in my car today -sitting at a stop light-and as soon as you said the quote about not making a moment a monument, I looked up and I was at Monument Avenue. I didn’t even know that street existed. It put a smile on my face. I used to follow Bethel and even visited there but not anymore. Thank you for your videos!
I totally hear you and get what you’re saying. Thankyou for your courage and your transparency. As a former worship leader in NAR environments, I also get emotional now in a little traditional church just singing some old hymns and Be thou my vision also a long time favourite I recorded way back , and I end up a mess of tears. Even reading scripture publicly in a church service now, and I’m holding back the tears. There is wisdom in your words and God is using your videos to help so many.
Jesse, I can very much relate to my understanding of worship now from years ago in the hyper charismatic movement. Now sitting or standing in services and singing songs like Come Thou Fount and Be Thou My Vision and thinking upon what the Lord has done in saving me and recognizing my utter need for Him has been a beautiful transformation that only God could have done in me. Emotions are not a bad thing, but emotions are not the barometer of gauging God's Presence, which we now understand and continue to understand and to keep at the forefront. I am overwhelmed at times at the grace and mercy of God, and I also know my tears or emotions are not the sign of His Presence. Thanks for sharing this video. We have much to thank God for in saving us and allowing us to minister to others, to the glory of God!!
This is what is tearing me up also. Bill Johnson and Kris Vallotton are on the stage, teaching at Asbury through their songs. We refuse to confess their theology but we'll sing it. One of the greatest heresies in the early church, Arianism, was not spread through sermons but through music.
I was wondering if this supposed move of God had Bethel music. I’m about to listen to this video and thankful for people like Jesse who talks about these sorts of things. I’m a Pentecostal/ Charismatic who’s been delivered of much of what that movement produced. It was once said to me that I am very well grounded in scripture being a Pentecostal Christian as most aren’t. Sadly he’s correct. That wasn’t always the case though as I was once very ignorant of scriptures explained in context but that’s another story!
@@truthgardener9983 Spencer Smith's video I Saw the Asbury University Revival: Transcript: 39:51 the music that was used in this meeting was very problematic let me show you 39:58 this uh almost probably in the two hours that I was there 95 percent or more of 40:05 the music that was used was Bethel Hillsong elevation Maverick City Music
I'm in my mid-60's, got caught up in WOF in the 80's, have been in a mild Vineyard church for 30 yrs...and for the last 4 yrs. have become aware of Bill Johnson, NAR stuff, and the difference between exegesis and eisegesis. Am questioning everything including all my experience in the Vineyard. I just want you to know that your program, out of the many I follow, is one of the few that I truly look forward to viewing and learning from.
Alisa Childers, Mike Winger, and Jack Hibbs are my biblical go-to peops and am now listening to Westwood too. Questioning is great! Alisa is so wise and today she posted a video about Asbury...a continuation of her last one and she speaks about the wheat and the tares. It was very very good. I believe the Lord is everywhere, so there is no need to pack your bags and chase the spirit.
Check out Vineyard USA for general info and values. John Wimber is who helped start it. You can watch a lot of his videos from back in the day. Derek Morphew also explains a lot of their theology in his books. Hope that helps
I so appreciate your authenticity - you are helping to provide a way forward for us and our young people. We've started doing a contemporary portion in our services and I'm really struggling - I play keys - looking forward to your music insights and worship.
Brother, you’re on an awesome journey. Stay humble like you are and I know the Lord will meet you there and catch you up in His truth. Your vulnerability is so inspiring my friend. I am praying with you as a brother who is asking similar questions and kind of sick of the sensationalism and emotionalism. I JUST want to know God rightly. I want His word and His truth alone.
Thank you soooo much for your vulnerability and transparency on this channel. 🙏🏾 I understand what you're wrestling with right now. My church support Bethel heavily. I have stopped going altogether. I LOVE God ❤️ and He has shown me who is truly is through his word. So many ppl want an "experience" and the by-products of Chirst, but not really Him. Keep doing what you're doing to show God's people the Gospel!!
Jesse thank you for being so genuine and heartfelt. I left the Vineyard movement just a few years ago and relate so much to what you’re saying. I’m always on hyper-alert, heart guarded. I pray God is moving in this and this generation comes to know the true Jesus of the Bible.
Thanks for your honesty here Jesse. Watched the Remnant Radio this morning who talked about this. Josh visited Asbury and said this move of God is being really well shepherded, that they're shutting down attempts to hype and 'emotionalise' what's going on there. It seems it's in good hands and not messy!
I also liked the Remnant Radio comments and the very “low hype” that is quite uncharacteristic of other Bethel related moves of the Spirit. As a seminarian, I also have great respect for the university and the professors that are there.
@@anthonywhitney634 that what I been told but there was todd to of coming but now it seem all cancelled as the event is shut down. However when it was on this has been confirmed gay student leading worship for a few days. How can that be a move of God?? And did you hear the preaching just some positive vibe to get excited. These things cannot be ignored.
I’ve recently started listening to you and appreciate your experience and insight. I have been out of the Charismatic church for several months and it’s amazing how my eyes have been opened and my heart has been changed. Please continue to spread the word and using your platform to help bring the lost sheep home. Warm regards to you and your family.
Love ya brother, your a real one and I really appreciate it. As one who also comes out of the NAR, I relate to you so much. Thanks for laying open your heart, keep it up :-)
I so appreciate you. You are honest and humble. I too thought Alisa Childers gave a very good summary of the revival. I too come from a charismatic background. I left it because of all the emotional hype and self focus. I go to a reformed church now and am growing in the Lord and living the word of God He has been so faithful to you as he has been to me. Thank you again for sharing your story. I appreciate it so much.
I was really moved by your heart in this video brother. I came across your videos after watching the Mike Winger video on Physics of Heaven and I have so greatly appreciated your humility and compassion in the videos I have since watched. You have expressed frustration where you ought to, and compassion and grace where you ought to, all the while coming across extremely genuine and that will keep me tuned in to your videos. I, too, have felt so many of the same things, and I find it so difficult in these situations with anything nearing charismatic, that my default is to be a skeptic. I think the point you made about the times we live in (a social media age) and dealing with the hype and the publicity of events like this makes it hard to imagine it is still pure after this many days, and now people are just wanting to be a part of the event taking place to say they were there. I have had my own emotional moments in similar situations and I think it is a beautiful healing thing God is doing in your heart through the tension you are feeling in these moments. I’ve heard it called a “holy tension” and I seem to like that term, myself. I really resonated with so much of this video and the previous ones as well and I am excited to continue following this journey alongside you. Again, I really appreciate your genuineness in these videos. Lastly, I see Christ in you brother. Be encouraged. He is faithful to complete the work He started in you. God bless.
You're killing me Jesse! I'm at the gym this morning, gearing up for my next set on squats and now I'm sitting on a bench holding back tears registering with you as you talk about worshipping almighty God. I appreciate your candor even though it won't help me break any records this morning. 😁
They’ve only taken it down from the bethel store. This is damage control - pure and simple. They haven’t exactly pulled it from every single book store around the world…
This really tugged at my heart strings.... I have been feeling the same way that you have. Spiritual struggles that I have had in the past seem to have resurfacing since hearing about this.
Dear Jesse I so feel for you in this, and your heart is doing well, I feel. I’m also chewing over these things so I’m eager to know how other people are processing these concerns. I just wondered where you are with Asbury now, a year later. What became of it over time? How are those people doing now, do we know? I’m glad you’re sensible about the messy idea, which is true of humans as well as oxon, but shouldn’t be an excuse for things going to excess! I was very encouraged that you felt it was sweet and beautiful and you helped me not to be too negative. Bless you brother.
Jesse,...I so appreciate your honesty and humility. I am going to be 64 yrs old and have picked up my guitar again to help out with our small church with the P&W time. We are very traditional with doing Hymnals. But man can I relate to all the struggles you have dealt with,...with the music and style of P&W. The last church my husband and I attended where I was also part of the P&W,...was based on emotions and ecstatic worship. So glad we are out of that. Continue in your work and revealing truth. Your spot on. God Bless you!
I went to Bethel for 3 months. I had no idea what I was walking into. It was shocking and disorienting. I questioned everything I was taught growing up. I can’t imagine having years of conditioning by this church. My prayers are with you and your family.
I was talking to a buddy of mine over the weekend and he was telling me about the Asbury thing and I am cautious about certain things (which is why I really like your channel Jesse!!) and something I loved was hearing that it started off as something normal and ordinary, just a normal gathering that happened, and then it seemed like the Holy Spirit really came in and moved, and that is helping me think that, at least at first, like you said, it really does seem like a move of God. I love that they didn't go in there saying "we're going to have a revival". I've never heard that quote before about you can't plan a revivial anymore than you can plan a hurricane, and being from Florida I totally get that!! You can PREPARE for a hurricane that you see coming or is predicted to come, but you can't schedule it.
I want to encourage you to keep doing what you’re doing. This is such a blessing Jesse! I stayed in the Word of Faith movement for 11 years because I wanted so desperately to see the Lord heal me of my ailments. Once I came to truly know Jesus, He healed me spiritually and healed my learning disability without anyone laying hands on me or outside influence. (I had a learning disability due to my epileptic seizures that I gained later in life.) God still moves and heals today! I’m cessationist now as well. We have to keep speaking out and helping those who come out and praying for the Lord to open people’s eyes and ears!
I'm a pastor and I lead the Lord's Table every week. I have to restrain myself from weeping most weeks...and on weeks where I haven't, I have had my head buried in my hands. I am also a card carrying cessationist and I feel weird when I lift my hands. Some folks don't feel that...and it's OK. I feel like our circles can go too far in condemning those responses, every bit as much as when folks on the other side makes those a mark of the Spirit's move. Love what you're doing, brother - and your sincerity speaks volumes.
Dude thank you so much for doing this. My friends are in Jesus Culture school doing Sozos and all their stuff. I tried to warn them but your videos are equipping me for solid intel. Really appreciate all the effort your putting into this
Guarding your heart. Absolutely this❤️. I have a very similar background as you, have been out of it for about 14 years. Last year, a family member (BSSM) was bombarding me with revival and prophecy articles and videos and I finally asked her to stop sending them. When she asked why, I told her because I needed to guard my heart. She didn’t understand that of course, but once you have come out of that influence you really do have to guard your heart in a sense. Also, I can totally identify with the caution surrounding the events of Asbury and concern for the music. I would say that I have seen how the Lord has been so faithful to bring His sheep out of that mess eventually. So even if bethel music is being sung from a right heart, the true believer yielded to the Holy Spirit will (in the Lord’s timing) see this error. He promised us the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. We need to be praying for these young folks to grow in discernment with their growing zeal for the Lord. Also, last thing. Two family members in BSSM and bethel tech in the last year and both had to read Physics of Heaven. So yeah, they have still been teaching that hot garbage 😢
Dude! Thank you so much for your honest and raw heart. We as the generation that is cocooning out of the murky past decade in Christianity, we need this. 🤝👍
Thank you for being humble and willing to change you whole belief system. God brought me out of that movement as well I’m a different part of the country. The more I read my bible and listen to sound teaching, the more my eyes are opened to truth. So thank you for sharing your journey. It really helps and encourages me that there’s other people out the like me. I long for a work of God so deep in me, that nothing could ever choke it out. I feel like a failure sometimes because even after my eyes were opened to truth, I still went back to my addictions. Please keep me in prayer brother, that I would walk humbly with the Lord and that I would never go back to my wickedness again!
Jesse, thank you for opening your heart up with us. I cry when reading certain scriptures and when worshipping in songs but I see it as God working through me or disciplining me on. Keep up the good work. "Draw near to God and He will draw near to you" James 4:8
I'm so thankful for this video from you... I've been thinking through the Bethel music stuff for a while... Looking forward to more of your thoughts on this. I react the same way to Be Thou My Vision...we put it in the line up for this Sunday. Me on piano, guy on cajon, girl on synth doing strings...humble, quiet, small, country church. ANYWAY...waiting eagerly for more thoughts from you on music choices.
I'm with you brother. So much of what you're speaking about is exactly what I'm considering and seeking the Lord about. After years of being a charismatic I couldn't shake the feeling some things were way off base.
I heard from my former pastor that a big name worship leader offered to help out and lead worship and they were told by the leadership at Ashbury, “thanks, the students have it covered”. I hope that comforts you as it did me
@The Westwoods ...jesse, you are so on point with this! having come out of stuff similar to what you have i can say my heart is so torn for exactly the reasons you express here. after 5 years i am still sorting things out from years (as in decades...i am 67) of craziness. while be thou my vision does it for you...i found myself at choir rehearsal last night trying to sing turn your eyes upon Jesus with tears streaming down my face...don't know if i will ever be able to sing it without tears...i am so grateful for God's mercy and for saving me out of so much! keep doing what you are doing! it DOES make a difference to those who need to hear to be set free and those, like me, who need to hear from those who can relate to where we are!
New to this channel. Just subscribed. Amazed how God has protected your love for him and his word through all of this. So impressed with your maturity and hard work to preserve what is good and genuine. I grew up in a church that believed the Apostalic gifts have ceased, have watched and learned more about charismatics, and prob will cont with a cess. stand. I am open but not likely to change. I do agree God can and will continue to work among us, but it is Him, not us.
Jesse I am a former charismatic who came out of Rhema Bible College and I hurt and cry with you. 2015-2018 and it really scarred me. I hurt and hope all at the same time. I would love to talk with you some time and swap stories. But none the less, keep doing what you’re doing because your rawness is genuine and love ya brother.
I’m a recent follower, due to your mentioning Mike Winger. I have been a believer for 27+ years, but just read the Bible cover to cover last year. I’m very particular about who I “follow”…Mike Winger came on my radar last year, and God has used him to help me think biblically. I’ve wondered why I was drawn to you…I now know that it is because I have been struggling with the “worship” music that we play in church. My heart has been begging that we turn to music that truly worships him, bringing conviction, repentance, all of it. Thank you for sharing your heart of struggling…I am listening to you and learning how to struggle in the right way!
I can’t imagine for someone coming out of Bethel and the like to separate from the worship music. It is such a big part of that culture. It makes sense to have such a tenderness/rawness and a guard in hearing/singing music after years of negative experience. You were not just singing the music but had a big part in setting the atmosphere for the rest of the church. A huge responsibility that can lead to huge regret and sorrow. Praying for continued healing for you Jesse. I think this is the miraculous healing God does inside of our hearts.
I can see why your heart is torn. Thank you for talking about this. Yes, we do need to stick to Scripture. Your heart for others and our Savior is beautiful.
Hi Jesse, soooo glad ive found your channel. Been watching lots of your videos because i can identify with everything you say. I'm 73 and since being saved at 35 yrs old, have been charismatic and ending with hyper, or whatever all those movement are, our churchwas heavily influenced by Bethel's teachings. Loved it. All of it. Im a worshiper, ive always read my Bible. Then, i moved away from my church, to another state. Slowly God has shown me the errors. My soul was so stunned but my mind said, oh that's true! Cessationist now. Yes. My life is rearranged and like you, im grieved, confused, questioning so many years of deception. We don't want the kids at Asbury to be hijacked by false gospel leaders, and ask God to put a hedge of protection around them. Thankyou Jesse, youre doing a great job.❤
Jesse - Never apologize for a tender heart. We'd all do well to seek the Lord to make our hearts softer and more pliable to Him. I share your joy and concerns in so many ways. Having such conflicting feelings at one time is difficult. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and heart.
Oh man! Thank you. This was an earnest kind word. I have watched others, and honestly, I was ashamed to bear the name Christian. Thank you for being genuine. You have given a great example of having the mind of Christ.
That verse you quoted is actually in 2 Peter 1:21 :) love your videos man, I did a couple years at Bethels secondary school in Eureka California and I am now finally starting to understand the gospel in my 6 years walking with Jesus and also having stronger convictions towards Bethel after thinking over everything I heard being said over many years.
Thank you for clarifying your position on cessationist and believing God can heal, etc. You said that the gifts, especially apostolic and prophetic have ceased. You have obviously been around Bethel and takes years and years to change your position so I would really love to see a video or two that explains why the gifts have ceased through biblical explanation, not just your stating of what you believe without more thorough justification. You have a lot going on and appreciate the topics expressed. If you decide to do that, would love to see more. Thanks.
Thank you for sharing your heart. I feel the same way. I grew up in the charismatic movement, I was a worship leader and completely involved in the NAR for decades. I opted out of everything in the past 4-5 years. I hope this thing at Asbury is real but I'm feeling very cautious about it as well. It's hard to know where to stand on this after all I've seen and been through. Keep up what you're doing. It's much needed for all of us that are walking this same path. So many of us wounded and coming out of false teachings. God bless you 🙏🏻
It will be real if the people involved stay focused on Jesus and loving God and others as He asked us to do... the fruits of the Spirit kind of things. It sounds/looks like that is the foundation. So far this looks more real because it's not associated with any hyper charismatic, yet. But if begins to focus on signs & wonders, the hype or hoopla... then it's over... done... u-turned its way back into darkness. Do any of you know what hyper-charismatics are saying about this? Because it would seem to me this event doesn't fit their 'definition' of what revival is supposed to look like...
Jesse, thank you for your wisdom and articulation throughout this video and thank you for your transparency and vulnerability. Your past experience in Bethel and their crazy false teachings resonates with so many of us. I was involved with a church, in fact was on staff at this church and they were very much promoting and teaching the same things as Bethel. I even lead their Sozo ministry of which I have repented of and deeply regret. It is so easy to get caught up in all of the nonsense that they teach and there is no gospel message ever preached. I am so grateful to God for opening my eyes to the truth and that He brought me away from that church. I can totally identify with you Jessie when ever you feel suspicion with regards to these “moves of the spirit”, and various things that are happening even with regards to the Asbury revival. Your take on this was spoken with great wisdom. God is using you mightily to reach out to others. Thank you for all that you are doing, you are like a breath of fresh air!
God is bigger than any thought or emotion we get in a song. Doesnt matter who wrote it! Mercy GOD can use sinners for Hos purposes. It all comes down to our hearts. Theres where the Judge can be the judge
Forty years ago when I was a freshman in high school I went to a charismatic church. They wanted everyone to speak in tongues but I never did. My friend told me she faked it. I realize she wanted to be part of the group. The church had a hard time seeing me as a believer which I was and still am a believer in the saving grace of Jesus Christ.
Hey man, I know we had a conversation about cessationism in another video. I can see where you are coming from and that makes more sense than previous comments I read from you. Also, I totally feel you on being in those kinds of worship circles where it’s no longer about God but on hype and man. I experienced one of the most dead and dry worship meetings in Huntington Beach with the circuit riders. I really wanted to be in worship to God but my spirit felt so uneasy the entire time. It was a rock concert to help summarize it… I learned that day that this kind of discernment is a really powerful gift to call out falsehood in the places we are, it’s just a matter of having the boldness and grace to do so.
Thank you for stating that though you are a cessationist, you fully believe that we can feel the overwhelming peace and comfort of God’s/ The Holy Spirit’s presence around/inside of us. I wholeheartedly agree, and I have often felt alone in my belief of this and even second guessed myself because I attend a cessationist church and those “feelings” aren’t often discussed- I’m guessing because people are worried they’ll be labeled “charismatic”? But it is truly a blessing to hear another cessationist validate this.
So this is my problem too! I despise how wounded I am when it comes to being in the presence of God after the NAR and hyper charismania. Be thou my vision is one of my favorite songs and I'm so thankful to have a church that plays solid worship ❤️ I can't sing it either I choke up.
Jesse, you’re being real and I am so grateful for you allowing your emotional side about saving souls to be viewed. Continue to be real.❤ it is very encouraging to those of us whose hearts break for these kids and desire so badly for them to see truth. Keep praying! God hears us!!
Your heart and your honesty are so beautiful, dear brother. Your heartbreak was palpable and brought me to tears. You cry because you love and your heart has been molded by Jesus through your trials. We will not have to wonder if this is truly revival as an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Christ will judge and Christ will reveal if He is in this or not and it will be crystal clear. All Will Be Well!
I just saw in a livestream post today that they denied entry to Todd Bentley and Copeland Ministries. That’s a win even though I’m sure there are others under their instruction inside.
Your videos have hit personally. Because up till now, I didn't understand how damaging it was to grow up in Churches that adopted the Drunk in Christ ideologies. I only left when I was 22, now I'm 36. And still struggles with a lot of it. I'm Brazilian, and this movement has ravaged the Brazilian Churches. All the churches I know, have different and overlapping aspects of Bethel.
Todd White going down there and holding big conferences does not help. The NAR is even more dangerous in 3rd world countries where people are constantly looking for hope.
By referring in this verse to the value of oxen, Solomon emphasizes two things. First, animals should be treated appropriately. This is common sense; a well-treated animal is more productive (Proverbs 12:10; Deuteronomy 25:4). Second, hard work pays dividends.
Gosh, I am so with you about the Bethel songs! I heard them start to play Bethel songs, and my spirit was like, “oh no!” But then people are there worshiping and on their knees before God…I know that to this day there are Bethel songs that can touch a very deep place in me in a very positive way towards God! I feel your caution & hesitancy, Brother! I can’t judge it either💕
Gift of healing still in operation. The word of God the same yesterday today and forever. Witnessed testimony of someone healed of blood cancer last Sunday. The problem with the false apostolic is that it puts the people of God off believing the God of miracles that He alone does. Whether He does it by a corporate anointing or by a preacher, He does do miracles. I believe one of the sole purposes of this false apostolic move is to deter the people of God in receiving the true because they have been so burnt by the false. But God in His Mercy will not allow this to happen because He loves His Bride.
“Kids shouldn’t be focused on the gifts, they should be focused on the Gospel”. Nailed it. That’s beautiful. 💕
But they don't know that and plus they have Joseph Prince to deepen the illusion that God is doing something special and people saying they feel it they feel it!!
its at 7:44 Use timestamps when quotte. Brings watchers to the point right away ;)
The gifts are part of the gospel journey … get saved, get gifts, use the gifts to get others saved and delivered.
@@paulc7190 if gift are the gospel then you believe in the blue genine from bethel and grave soaking. And the lgbtq movement cause even andy say they got more faith then he has. They have gifts that been overlooked by traditional Christians.
If Christians is all about gift move to islam they will tell you of might gift!!!!
Jesse I’m a 65yr old man who was regenerated in Oct of 1985. We have been through many “church” experiences since then including the Toronto Blessing, laughing, and up to Bethel style learning to operate in the gifts. As I listened to this RUclips tonight I couldn’t stop crying with you. I learned to LOVE Jesus through this movement and am having difficulty finding anywhere close to the same level of love I had in the past. I’m absolutely a believer but it is so different it’s hard to reconcile my emotional belief to the way I see things now. I weep with you brother and thank you for at least trying to articulate your experience for other’s. I most relate to your statement of trying to make it work for so long, I did the same thing and desperately wanted to see God “Move” but finally realized He was moving every day in my life. Thank you for your speaking out about this. If we don’t have the Jesus of the Bible we are going to Hell that’s the bottom line, we need to know the Jesus of the Bible or we are just worshiping an idea of who we think He is. Thanks
Thank you for sharing 🙏🏼
Amen!!! Praise the Lord! My story is much like yours except mine was the Word of Faith movement for 11 years. I spend my time helping those who have come to the saving knowledge of the true Jesus Christ. Praying for you brother and am so glad you got out of this as well!
I am 67 years old. And for 35 years was involved in all the movements that you're speaking about above. A couple years ago my pastor at the time wanted us to do a study on Matthew 24. As I began to study I went beyond my religious boundaries so to speak and began to look and listen to other Christian brothers and sisters in the Lord. I came upon Holly Pivecs book, Super Apostles. Actually it turned my world upside down. For a couple years I couldn't even identify who I was. I was so engulfed into the emotionalism and mysticism of these movements. It has shook my world but I am so grateful to God. My prayer is that we may all be found standing on The Rock because the winds are surely blowing. God bless you
I think that “Love” feeling is a projection of who we think God is. I have so much suffering and sadness at things I’ve missed out on trying to follow God, missed out on partner and family trying to follow God. All those emotional experiences that I thought were a relationship with God is just emotional experiences. This life is suffering until I’m with him in heaven. Then he’ll make up for it all. In the meantime, the emotions go up and down, and don’t mean that much.
@@lindaholloman125 Well, then I am glad you found her book! She recently released one over the New Apostolic Reformation called “The Counterfeit Kingdom.” Praise the Lord you found the truth. I will be praying for you 🙏🏻
Every Christian wants revival. The problem is not every Christian wants biblical revival. Love your videos mate keep them coming.
Thanks 🙏🏼
Well they would say it is biblical that too been all twisted as long as they're affirmed emotionally then its real for them.😵🤢
Your resume as a former Bethel worship leader is a huge street cred. Your insights and telling us the behind the scenes strategies is just something we would've never guessed or known. You're uniquely qualified to speak about this stuff! Don't ever let anyone or any technical hiccups discourage you. You're doing an enormous amount of work in record time, studying theology while responding to current events and developing this channel... while being husband and dad of 4 little ones. Give yourself grace and take breaks. Your heart and your instincts are right. Praying for you!
Thank you for this 🙏🏼
I so appreciate you, brother. Countless people all over are processing
similar things as you when it comes to NAR. I could tell stories for days…
Your tears are precious to our Father!
Thank you 🙏🏼
Brother. I'm not a cessationist, but I love this and your heart. Thank you for your honesty. Praying for God's continued work in you
Thank you 🙏🏼
Would love to connect. Moved our family from WA to Redding for Bethel. My husband followed them since about 1995. I started when we married in 2003. Reworking our theology is VALID!! Came out of membership with Bethel during the pandemic. So many red flags popped up before our journey out. We feel God has opened our eyes and literally have been rescued!
Email me! Thanks for sharing
My brother. My husband and I can relate to what you are walking through. The NAR, charismatic, signs and wonders, prosperity ideology claims to be "freedom and non-religious." In truth, it is bondage, pressure, uncertainty, anxiety and works. Freedom is in trusting God's Word and submitting to God's authority. To know that we don't have to believe harder, dance faster, sing louder, in order to measure up to the level of success, power, health that is not promised to us in scripture. Letting go of the pressure to "create an experience" and resting in His providence has been a very difficult adjustment. The panic that we aren't enough or aren't doing enough, or we might "miss something God is doing" can be paralyzing. The NAR works against the beauty and holiness of simple faith in our perfect Father. Please pray for us, as will we for you.
Wow. Such a compassionate and articulate video...
I know you were a bit self-conscious about your "ugly crying", but I think your heartbreak speaks so much to your character and to your tenderness. Many in the cessationist "discernment" crowd would be wise to learn from your gentle approach.
Praying for you... 🙏🏼
Thank you so much brother 🙏🏼
I agree on Mr. Westwood’s gentleness although I do appreciate the bluntness in the discernment crowd after the wishy-washy language of the NAR crowd. 😅
@@ab-gail it's not the bluntness for me as much as it is the contentious "bone to pick" mentality that not all, but some *definitely* have (won't name names here).
If nearly every "discernment" video is a grievance, rant, or guns-blazing negative discourse - with anger and sarcasm instead of tact and compassion - that's only going to turn off the very people who need to be rescued from the movement IMO.
I’m a cessationist, but they are often the nastiest, most hard hearted people
@@jonengler1296I say the same thing all the time
Good work! I hope the opposition to the NAR movement keeps growing.
Me too!
@@faith_reframed hey westwood got bad news no it will get much worst we would be the minority force to hide. Not the majestic army like all prophet has spoken today. The global church needs to be under the kingdom of darkness cause that is what been said in the bible look at revelation. Do you super army a church conquering land no. You see a persecuted church dripped in blood.
Your attitude is golden: a person of peace trying to uncover God's truth. Truth is usually uncomfortable.Thank you for your thoughtful insights on these important matters.
❤❤❤
I was raised in this. Chris Rosebrough explained it well describing it like surfers. Always looking for the next big wave, will travel to catch it. A big high followed by a drop where you’re searching for years for that same experience. I had lots of very self centered emotional experiences. But when I finally understood the whole gospel and went to a reformed, cessationist church, worship was another experience altogether. The depth of the gospel in every word of every hymn. The reminder of God’s mercy and grace in the depth of hymns and exegetical preaching. For months, I sobbed during worship. My voice still breaks mid song often. It’s not a roller coaster trajectory, it’s a growth trajectory. And I am so thankful for the overwhelming peace that comes from God’s beautiful scripture.
I just have to tell you Jesse that I was listening to this in my car today -sitting at a stop light-and as soon as you said the quote about not making a moment a monument, I looked up and I was at Monument Avenue. I didn’t even know that street existed. It put a smile on my face. I used to follow Bethel and even visited there but not anymore. Thank you for your videos!
That saying is way older and not a Johnson original
Needed discussion, keep it up!
I totally hear you and get what you’re saying. Thankyou for your courage and your transparency. As a former worship leader in NAR environments, I also get emotional now in a little traditional church just singing some old hymns and Be thou my vision also a long time favourite I recorded way back , and I end up a mess of tears. Even reading scripture publicly in a church service now, and I’m holding back the tears.
There is wisdom in your words and God is using your videos to help so many.
Jesse, I can very much relate to my understanding of worship now from years ago in the hyper charismatic movement. Now sitting or standing in services and singing songs like Come Thou Fount and Be Thou My Vision and thinking upon what the Lord has done in saving me and recognizing my utter need for Him has been a beautiful transformation that only God could have done in me. Emotions are not a bad thing, but emotions are not the barometer of gauging God's Presence, which we now understand and continue to understand and to keep at the forefront. I am overwhelmed at times at the grace and mercy of God, and I also know my tears or emotions are not the sign of His Presence.
Thanks for sharing this video. We have much to thank God for in saving us and allowing us to minister to others, to the glory of God!!
So we’ll put sis. Thank you so much for this❤
This is what is tearing me up also. Bill Johnson and Kris Vallotton are on the stage, teaching at Asbury through their songs. We refuse to confess their theology but we'll sing it. One of the greatest heresies in the early church, Arianism, was not spread through sermons but through music.
So well put
So true! Their music is the trojan horse that gets their "doctrine of demons" through countless unvigilant church doors.
@@SuenoTinguis And it goes with them after they leave.
I was wondering if this supposed move of God had Bethel music. I’m about to listen to this video and thankful for people like Jesse who talks about these sorts of things. I’m a Pentecostal/ Charismatic who’s been delivered of much of what that movement produced. It was once said to me that I am very well grounded in scripture being a Pentecostal Christian as most aren’t. Sadly he’s correct. That wasn’t always the case though as I was once very ignorant of scriptures explained in context but that’s another story!
@@truthgardener9983 Spencer Smith's video I Saw the Asbury University Revival: Transcript:
39:51
the music that was used in this meeting was very problematic let me show you
39:58
this uh almost probably in the two hours that I was there 95 percent or more of
40:05
the music that was used was Bethel Hillsong elevation Maverick City Music
I'm in my mid-60's, got caught up in WOF in the 80's, have been in a mild Vineyard church for 30 yrs...and for the last 4 yrs. have become aware of Bill Johnson, NAR stuff, and the difference between exegesis and eisegesis. Am questioning everything including all my experience in the Vineyard. I just want you to know that your program, out of the many I follow, is one of the few that I truly look forward to viewing and learning from.
Thank you so much for that
Alisa Childers, Mike Winger, and Jack Hibbs are my biblical go-to peops and am now listening to Westwood too. Questioning is great! Alisa is so wise and today she posted a video about Asbury...a continuation of her last one and she speaks about the wheat and the tares. It was very very good. I believe the Lord is everywhere, so there is no need to pack your bags and chase the spirit.
Do you have any good resources to check about Vineyard?
Check out Vineyard USA for general info and values. John Wimber is who helped start it. You can watch a lot of his videos from back in the day. Derek Morphew also explains a lot of their theology in his books. Hope that helps
I so appreciate your authenticity - you are helping to provide a way forward for us and our young people. We've started doing a contemporary portion in our services and I'm really struggling - I play keys - looking forward to your music insights and worship.
Brother, you’re on an awesome journey. Stay humble like you are and I know the Lord will meet you there and catch you up in His truth.
Your vulnerability is so inspiring my friend. I am praying with you as a brother who is asking similar questions and kind of sick of the sensationalism and emotionalism. I JUST want to know God rightly. I want His word and His truth alone.
Thanks brother
Thank you soooo much for your vulnerability and transparency on this channel. 🙏🏾 I understand what you're wrestling with right now. My church support Bethel heavily. I have stopped going altogether. I LOVE God ❤️ and He has shown me who is truly is through his word. So many ppl want an "experience" and the by-products of Chirst, but not really Him. Keep doing what you're doing to show God's people the Gospel!!
Jesse thank you for being so genuine and heartfelt. I left the Vineyard movement just a few years ago and relate so much to what you’re saying. I’m always on hyper-alert, heart guarded. I pray God is moving in this and this generation comes to know the true Jesus of the Bible.
Thanks for sharing!!
Please post this in the video of asbury so more can know and turn away. Not many know of dear West in those channels
Thanks for your honesty here Jesse. Watched the Remnant Radio this morning who talked about this. Josh visited Asbury and said this move of God is being really well shepherded, that they're shutting down attempts to hype and 'emotionalise' what's going on there. It seems it's in good hands and not messy!
I also liked the Remnant Radio comments and the very “low hype” that is quite uncharacteristic of other Bethel related moves of the Spirit. As a seminarian, I also have great respect for the university and the professors that are there.
Bill johnson is on stage and they sing bethel songs so no they gone wild.
When was Bill Johnson on stage?
@@ChubbyChic he wasn't. I'm not sure what @Sherlock is referring to.
@@anthonywhitney634 that what I been told but there was todd to of coming but now it seem all cancelled as the event is shut down. However when it was on this has been confirmed gay student leading worship for a few days. How can that be a move of God?? And did you hear the preaching just some positive vibe to get excited. These things cannot be ignored.
Glad physics of heaven was pulled! I’d hope that Mike winger’s video for it
Loved you clarifying cessassionism vs continuationism
My pleasure ✌🏼 thanks for watching 👍🏼
I’ve recently started listening to you and appreciate your experience and insight. I have been out of the Charismatic church for several months and it’s amazing how my eyes have been opened and my heart has been changed. Please continue to spread the word and using your platform to help bring the lost sheep home. Warm regards to you and your family.
Your testimony...your perspective speaks to my heart. Thank you! ❣️
Wow, thank you
Love ya brother, your a real one and I really appreciate it. As one who also comes out of the NAR, I relate to you so much. Thanks for laying open your heart, keep it up :-)
I appreciate that
I so appreciate you. You are honest and humble. I too thought Alisa Childers gave a very good summary of the revival. I too come from a charismatic background. I left it because of all the emotional hype and self focus. I go to a reformed church now and am growing in the Lord and living the word of God
He has been so faithful to you as he has been to me. Thank you again for sharing your story. I appreciate it so much.
Thank you 🙏🏼
Well done bro, this was really good, appreciate you being truthful and vulnerable
Thank you brother 🙏🏼
Thank you for sharing this and letting us see behind the curtains. Grace and peace.
✌🏼❤️✌🏼
I was really moved by your heart in this video brother. I came across your videos after watching the Mike Winger video on Physics of Heaven and I have so greatly appreciated your humility and compassion in the videos I have since watched. You have expressed frustration where you ought to, and compassion and grace where you ought to, all the while coming across extremely genuine and that will keep me tuned in to your videos.
I, too, have felt so many of the same things, and I find it so difficult in these situations with anything nearing charismatic, that my default is to be a skeptic. I think the point you made about the times we live in (a social media age) and dealing with the hype and the publicity of events like this makes it hard to imagine it is still pure after this many days, and now people are just wanting to be a part of the event taking place to say they were there.
I have had my own emotional moments in similar situations and I think it is a beautiful healing thing God is doing in your heart through the tension you are feeling in these moments. I’ve heard it called a “holy tension” and I seem to like that term, myself.
I really resonated with so much of this video and the previous ones as well and I am excited to continue following this journey alongside you. Again,
I really appreciate your genuineness in these videos.
Lastly, I see Christ in you brother. Be encouraged. He is faithful to complete the work He started in you. God bless.
Thanks for sharing 🙏🏼
You're killing me Jesse! I'm at the gym this morning, gearing up for my next set on squats and now I'm sitting on a bench holding back tears registering with you as you talk about worshipping almighty God. I appreciate your candor even though it won't help me break any records this morning. 😁
😂😂😂😂last thing I want to is mess up a squat PR
@@faith_reframed 😂 Keep up the good work brother!
You are putting into words how I've felt for over a year now. Praying for you, brother, truly.
Thank you 🙏🏼
Wow. Physics of Heaven is taken DOWN????? Um absolutely admittance of their teaching. Please do the same with “When Heaven Invades Earth” 🙏🏻
Who knows!
I don't know what is meant by they took it down, took it down from where? It can still be purchased on many sites online
They’ve only taken it down from the bethel store. This is damage control - pure and simple. They haven’t exactly pulled it from every single book store around the world…
This really tugged at my heart strings.... I have been feeling the same way that you have. Spiritual struggles that I have had in the past seem to have resurfacing since hearing about this.
Thanks for sharing ✌🏼
Dear Jesse I so feel for you in this, and your heart is doing well, I feel. I’m also chewing over these things so I’m eager to know how other people are processing these concerns. I just wondered where you are with Asbury now, a year later. What became of it over time? How are those people doing now, do we know?
I’m glad you’re sensible about the messy idea, which is true of humans as well as oxon, but shouldn’t be an excuse for things going to excess!
I was very encouraged that you felt it was sweet and beautiful and you helped me not to be too negative. Bless you brother.
Jesse,...I so appreciate your honesty and humility. I am going to be 64 yrs old and have picked up my guitar again to help out with our small church with the P&W time. We are very traditional with doing Hymnals. But man can I relate to all the struggles you have dealt with,...with the music and style of P&W. The last church my husband and I attended where I was also part of the P&W,...was based on emotions and ecstatic worship. So glad we are out of that. Continue in your work and revealing truth. Your spot on. God Bless you!
I went to Bethel for 3 months. I had no idea what I was walking into. It was shocking and disorienting. I questioned everything I was taught growing up. I can’t imagine having years of conditioning by this church. My prayers are with you and your family.
I was talking to a buddy of mine over the weekend and he was telling me about the Asbury thing and I am cautious about certain things (which is why I really like your channel Jesse!!) and something I loved was hearing that it started off as something normal and ordinary, just a normal gathering that happened, and then it seemed like the Holy Spirit really came in and moved, and that is helping me think that, at least at first, like you said, it really does seem like a move of God. I love that they didn't go in there saying "we're going to have a revival". I've never heard that quote before about you can't plan a revivial anymore than you can plan a hurricane, and being from Florida I totally get that!! You can PREPARE for a hurricane that you see coming or is predicted to come, but you can't schedule it.
I want to encourage you to keep doing what you’re doing. This is such a blessing Jesse! I stayed in the Word of Faith movement for 11 years because I wanted so desperately to see the Lord heal me of my ailments. Once I came to truly know Jesus, He healed me spiritually and healed my learning disability without anyone laying hands on me or outside influence. (I had a learning disability due to my epileptic seizures that I gained later in life.) God still moves and heals today! I’m cessationist now as well. We have to keep speaking out and helping those who come out and praying for the Lord to open people’s eyes and ears!
Thank you 🙏🏼
I'm a pastor and I lead the Lord's Table every week. I have to restrain myself from weeping most weeks...and on weeks where I haven't, I have had my head buried in my hands. I am also a card carrying cessationist and I feel weird when I lift my hands. Some folks don't feel that...and it's OK. I feel like our circles can go too far in condemning those responses, every bit as much as when folks on the other side makes those a mark of the Spirit's move. Love what you're doing, brother - and your sincerity speaks volumes.
Thank you 🙏🏼
You saying that you're a cessationist if only to guard your heart is so gold. Valid! Wise!
Don’t apologize for being vulnerable! Love seeing and hearing your heart and love for God. I greatly appreciate what you’re doing!
Thank you so much!!
Dude thank you so much for doing this. My friends are in Jesus Culture school doing Sozos and all their stuff. I tried to warn them but your videos are equipping me for solid intel. Really appreciate all the effort your putting into this
Thank you so much for sharing this 🙏🏼
Guarding your heart. Absolutely this❤️. I have a very similar background as you, have been out of it for about 14 years. Last year, a family member (BSSM) was bombarding me with revival and prophecy articles and videos and I finally asked her to stop sending them. When she asked why, I told her because I needed to guard my heart. She didn’t understand that of course, but once you have come out of that influence you really do have to guard your heart in a sense.
Also, I can totally identify with the caution surrounding the events of Asbury and concern for the music. I would say that I have seen how the Lord has been so faithful to bring His sheep out of that mess eventually. So even if bethel music is being sung from a right heart, the true believer yielded to the Holy Spirit will (in the Lord’s timing) see this error. He promised us the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. We need to be praying for these young folks to grow in discernment with their growing zeal for the Lord.
Also, last thing. Two family members in BSSM and bethel tech in the last year and both had to read Physics of Heaven. So yeah, they have still been teaching that hot garbage 😢
Dude! Thank you so much for your honest and raw heart. We as the generation that is cocooning out of the murky past decade in Christianity, we need this. 🤝👍
❤️❤️❤️❤️
Have you done a review on the book, Experiencing the Heavenly Realm?
Not yet!
Thank you for being humble and willing to change you whole belief system. God brought me out of that movement as well I’m a different part of the country. The more I read my bible and listen to sound teaching, the more my eyes are opened to truth. So thank you for sharing your journey. It really helps and encourages me that there’s other people out the like me. I long for a work of God so deep in me, that nothing could ever choke it out. I feel like a failure sometimes because even after my eyes were opened to truth, I still went back to my addictions. Please keep me in prayer brother, that I would walk humbly with the Lord and that I would never go back to my wickedness again!
Jesse, thank you for opening your heart up with us. I cry when reading certain scriptures and when worshipping in songs but I see it as God working through me or disciplining me on. Keep up the good work. "Draw near to God and He will draw near to you" James 4:8
Thanks for sharing!!
Thank you for sharing your heart! Your videos are truly a blessing. Thank you for having the courage.
Thank you so much!
Appreciate your perspective. I agree with your cessationist position with the caveat that God is Sovereign.
I'm so thankful for this video from you... I've been thinking through the Bethel music stuff for a while... Looking forward to more of your thoughts on this.
I react the same way to Be Thou My Vision...we put it in the line up for this Sunday. Me on piano, guy on cajon, girl on synth doing strings...humble, quiet, small, country church. ANYWAY...waiting eagerly for more thoughts from you on music choices.
Thank you 🙏🏼
I'm with you brother. So much of what you're speaking about is exactly what I'm considering and seeking the Lord about. After years of being a charismatic I couldn't shake the feeling some things were way off base.
At 7:55 - yay right on!!!! Equip your kids with the gospel rather than making everyone into a little prophet. That was the best take ever.
Thank you 🙏🏼
I am completely with you on cessation…. 💯. You explain it on point 👌🏻. Keep doing your thing!
Thank you 🙌
I heard from my former pastor that a big name worship leader offered to help out and lead worship and they were told by the leadership at Ashbury, “thanks, the students have it covered”. I hope that comforts you as it did me
Yea I heard Sean Feucht tried to but I can’t confirm that. From the time I spent with him it sounds like something he would do
Great job Jesse, very balanced and fair. You're doing a great job with these videos. God bless.
I appreciate that!
@The Westwoods ...jesse, you are so on point with this! having come out of stuff similar to what you have i can say my heart is so torn for exactly the reasons you express here. after 5 years i am still sorting things out from years (as in decades...i am 67) of craziness. while be thou my vision does it for you...i found myself at choir rehearsal last night trying to sing turn your eyes upon Jesus with tears streaming down my face...don't know if i will ever be able to sing it without tears...i am so grateful for God's mercy and for saving me out of so much! keep doing what you are doing! it DOES make a difference to those who need to hear to be set free and those, like me, who need to hear from those who can relate to where we are!
Thank you so much ❤️
New to this channel. Just subscribed. Amazed how God has protected your love for him and his word through all of this. So impressed with your maturity and hard work to preserve what is good and genuine. I grew up in a church that believed the Apostalic gifts have ceased, have watched and learned more about charismatics, and prob will cont with a cess. stand. I am open but not likely to change. I do agree God can and will continue to work among us, but it is Him, not us.
Thanks for sharing!
Jesse I am a former charismatic who came out of Rhema Bible College and I hurt and cry with you. 2015-2018 and it really scarred me. I hurt and hope all at the same time. I would love to talk with you some time and swap stories. But none the less, keep doing what you’re doing because your rawness is genuine and love ya brother.
Another very interesting video! I really appreciate your channel and your tenderness toward God! ❤️
Thank you so much!
I’m a recent follower, due to your mentioning Mike Winger. I have been a believer for 27+ years, but just read the Bible cover to cover last year. I’m very particular about who I “follow”…Mike Winger came on my radar last year, and God has used him to help me think biblically. I’ve wondered why I was drawn to you…I now know that it is because I have been struggling with the “worship” music that we play in church. My heart has been begging that we turn to music that truly worships him, bringing conviction, repentance, all of it. Thank you for sharing your heart of struggling…I am listening to you and learning how to struggle in the right way!
I can’t imagine for someone coming out of Bethel and the like to separate from the worship music. It is such a big part of that culture. It makes sense to have such a tenderness/rawness and a guard in hearing/singing music after years of negative experience. You were not just singing the music but had a big part in setting the atmosphere for the rest of the church. A huge responsibility that can lead to huge regret and sorrow. Praying for continued healing for you Jesse. I think this is the miraculous healing God does inside of our hearts.
Thanks 🙏🏼
I can see why your heart is torn. Thank you for talking about this. Yes, we do need to stick to Scripture. Your heart for others and our Savior is beautiful.
Thank you 🙏🏼
One of the best episodes yet. Appreciate you brother ❤️
Wow thank you 🙏🏼
Hi Jesse, soooo glad ive found your channel. Been watching lots of your videos because i can identify with everything you say.
I'm 73 and since being saved at 35 yrs old, have been charismatic and ending with hyper, or whatever all those movement are, our churchwas heavily influenced by Bethel's teachings. Loved it. All of it. Im a worshiper, ive always read my Bible. Then, i moved away from my church, to another state. Slowly God has shown me the errors. My soul was so stunned but my mind said, oh that's true! Cessationist now. Yes.
My life is rearranged and like you, im grieved, confused, questioning so many years of deception.
We don't want the kids at Asbury to be hijacked by false gospel leaders, and ask God to put a hedge of protection around them.
Thankyou Jesse, youre doing a great job.❤
Thank you, still struggling after waking up to Hillsong formula
Totally understand
Thank you for your tender heart.
TY for speaking out. Appreciate it. On Point Preparedness also did a good vid on Asbury.
Jesse - Never apologize for a tender heart. We'd all do well to seek the Lord to make our hearts softer and more pliable to Him. I share your joy and concerns in so many ways. Having such conflicting feelings at one time is difficult.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and heart.
Thank you 🙏🏼
Well said young man! Prayers for wisdom and understanding!
Thank you 🙏🏼
FACT: if the " gift of healing" was to be dished out in this timeline, people would be healed, and it would be apparent and testable
👌🏼
Oh man! Thank you. This was an earnest kind word. I have watched others, and honestly, I was ashamed to bear the name Christian. Thank you for being genuine. You have given a great example of having the mind of Christ.
That verse you quoted is actually in 2 Peter 1:21 :) love your videos man, I did a couple years at Bethels secondary school in Eureka California and I am now finally starting to understand the gospel in my 6 years walking with Jesus and also having stronger convictions towards Bethel after thinking over everything I heard being said over many years.
Thank you for clarifying your position on cessationist and believing God can heal, etc. You said that the gifts, especially apostolic and prophetic have ceased. You have obviously been around Bethel and takes years and years to change your position so I would really love to see a video or two that explains why the gifts have ceased through biblical explanation, not just your stating of what you believe without more thorough justification. You have a lot going on and appreciate the topics expressed. If you decide to do that, would love to see more. Thanks.
Absolutely 👍🏼 a lot to cover 😂
Thank you for sharing your heart. I feel the same way. I grew up in the charismatic movement, I was a worship leader and completely involved in the NAR for decades. I opted out of everything in the past 4-5 years. I hope this thing at Asbury is real but I'm feeling very cautious about it as well. It's hard to know where to stand on this after all I've seen and been through.
Keep up what you're doing. It's much needed for all of us that are walking this same path. So many of us wounded and coming out of false teachings.
God bless you 🙏🏻
It will be real if the people involved stay focused on Jesus and loving God and others as He asked us to do... the fruits of the Spirit kind of things. It sounds/looks like that is the foundation. So far this looks more real because it's not associated with any hyper charismatic, yet. But if begins to focus on signs & wonders, the hype or hoopla... then it's over... done... u-turned its way back into darkness.
Do any of you know what hyper-charismatics are saying about this? Because it would seem to me this event doesn't fit their 'definition' of what revival is supposed to look like...
God Bless you! I think it is very wise to guard your heart!
Thanks ✌🏼
The cessanionst position is sadly one of the most misunderstood positions.
Exactly. It's so frustrating.
Thank you for sharing your heart! You summed it up well
Thanks for watching!
Jesse, thank you for your wisdom and articulation throughout this video and thank you for your transparency and vulnerability. Your past experience in Bethel and their crazy false teachings resonates with so many of us. I was involved with a church, in fact was on staff at this church and they were very much promoting and teaching the same things as Bethel. I even lead their Sozo ministry of which I have repented of and deeply regret. It is so easy to get caught up in all of the nonsense that they teach and there is no gospel message ever preached. I am so grateful to God for opening my eyes to the truth and that He brought me away from that church. I can totally identify with you Jessie when ever you feel suspicion with regards to these “moves of the spirit”, and various things that are happening even with regards to the Asbury revival. Your take on this was spoken with great wisdom. God is using you mightily to reach out to others. Thank you for all that you are doing, you are like a breath of fresh air!
Thank you Jesse- excellent job of speaking the truth in love.
Thank you so much for your honesty and tears. 🥺✝️
Keeping it real 😂
God is bigger than any thought or emotion we get in a song.
Doesnt matter who wrote it!
Mercy
GOD can use sinners for Hos purposes.
It all comes down to our hearts.
Theres where the Judge can be the judge
Forty years ago when I was a freshman in high school I went to a charismatic church. They wanted everyone to speak in tongues but I never did. My friend told me she faked it. I realize she wanted to be part of the group. The church had a hard time seeing me as a believer which I was and still am a believer in the saving grace of Jesus Christ.
Hey man, I know we had a conversation about cessationism in another video. I can see where you are coming from and that makes more sense than previous comments I read from you.
Also, I totally feel you on being in those kinds of worship circles where it’s no longer about God but on hype and man. I experienced one of the most dead and dry worship meetings in Huntington Beach with the circuit riders. I really wanted to be in worship to God but my spirit felt so uneasy the entire time. It was a rock concert to help summarize it…
I learned that day that this kind of discernment is a really powerful gift to call out falsehood in the places we are, it’s just a matter of having the boldness and grace to do so.
Thanks man 🙏🏼
@@faith_reframed
Keep up the raw content brother.
Thank you for stating that though you are a cessationist, you fully believe that we can feel the overwhelming peace and comfort of God’s/ The Holy Spirit’s presence around/inside of us. I wholeheartedly agree, and I have often felt alone in my belief of this and even second guessed myself because I attend a cessationist church and those “feelings” aren’t often discussed- I’m guessing because people are worried they’ll be labeled “charismatic”? But it is truly a blessing to hear another cessationist validate this.
So this is my problem too! I despise how wounded I am when it comes to being in the presence of God after the NAR and hyper charismania. Be thou my vision is one of my favorite songs and I'm so thankful to have a church that plays solid worship ❤️ I can't sing it either I choke up.
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Jesse, you’re being real and I am so grateful for you allowing your emotional side about saving souls to be viewed. Continue to be real.❤ it is very encouraging to those of us whose hearts break for these kids and desire so badly for them to see truth. Keep praying! God hears us!!
Thank you 🙏🏼
Your heart and your honesty are so beautiful, dear brother. Your heartbreak was palpable and brought me to tears. You cry because you love and your heart has been molded by Jesus through your trials. We will not have to wonder if this is truly revival as an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Christ will judge and Christ will reveal if He is in this or not and it will be crystal clear. All Will Be Well!
Thank you 🙏🏼
I just saw in a livestream post today that they denied entry to Todd Bentley and Copeland Ministries. That’s a win even though I’m sure there are others under their instruction inside.
We will see 🙏🏼
Key word, repentance with actual actions...
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Thank you for your honesty - bless you.
Same to you!
Your videos have hit personally. Because up till now, I didn't understand how damaging it was to grow up in Churches that adopted the Drunk in Christ ideologies. I only left when I was 22, now I'm 36. And still struggles with a lot of it. I'm Brazilian, and this movement has ravaged the Brazilian Churches. All the churches I know, have different and overlapping aspects of Bethel.
Praying for you and thanks for sharing 🙏🏼
Todd White going down there and holding big conferences does not help. The NAR is even more dangerous in 3rd world countries where people are constantly looking for hope.
God bless you brother, appreciate the tender heart.!
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By referring in this verse to the value of oxen, Solomon emphasizes two things. First, animals should be treated appropriately. This is common sense; a well-treated animal is more productive (Proverbs 12:10; Deuteronomy 25:4). Second, hard work pays dividends.
Gosh, I am so with you about the Bethel songs!
I heard them start to play Bethel songs, and my spirit was like, “oh no!”
But then people are there worshiping and on their knees before God…I know that to this day there are Bethel songs that can touch a very deep place in me in a very positive way towards God! I feel your caution & hesitancy, Brother! I can’t judge it either💕
Thank you!
Gift of healing still in operation. The word of God the same yesterday today and forever. Witnessed testimony of someone healed of blood cancer last Sunday. The problem with the false apostolic is that it puts the people of God off believing the God of miracles that He alone does. Whether He does it by a corporate anointing or by a preacher, He does do miracles. I believe one of the sole purposes of this false apostolic move is to deter the people of God in receiving the true because they have been so burnt by the false. But God in His Mercy will not allow this to happen because He loves His Bride.
Thank you Jesse and family.
Thank you 🙏🏼
I've also been really challenged by the asbury revival. I just hope and pray that God can use this for his glory
Praying 🙏🏼
I think this is your best video you have done
Thanks brother ✌🏼