0:00 First step is always connect BMS B(-) to the battery (-) before connecting any other wires to the BMS. 0:18 I use an alligator clip to temporarily hold the ANT B- to battery (-). 0:31 Next find the balance lead connector with the black (-) wire and connect it to the ANT. 1:10 Last wire to connect before starting the ANT is the connector with the red wire. Connecting red wire before any ground wire can permanently damage the BMS. 1:40 for ANT with tiny red and black wires (the worst type), you need a 3v-5v power source to jump start it at this stage. You can also boot any BMS by connecting the charger. 1:49 you will hear a beep when the ANT boots up and see a flashing light showing Bluetooth is on. 2:35 now you can connect the ANT app to the ANT BMS 2:48 we can see bricks 1-12 are all still perfectly balanced, meaning there is no abnormal self-discharge while sitting. But #13 is 0.004v lower. 2:54 0.004v drop over 3 months is nothing to be alarmed over, but it is why EVERY bms will try to do some balancing maintenance. 3:03 cheap dumb BMS will try to do balancing maintenance each time you fully charge the pack and leave the charger plugged in for a while after the light turns green. 3:13 The ANT can be set to balance automatically or it can be manually initiated and will balance all bricks to within 0.000v. 3:29 I will not start an Autobalancing session right now, I will wait until I charge it to about 4.15v/cell and then balance it.
@ , unfortunately this 7s-16s model only comes with 2 temperature sensors and it has the worst boot wires (red + black) so you need a battery to boot it if you don’t have your charger nearby and you accidentally turn it off. Lol. The better ANT have 4 temperature sensors and two small black wires for booting that only needs momentarily switch to boot up the ANT and Bluetooth. Not sure about tire length because the ANT by itself has no idea what the tire is doing. It only knows about the battery. Which set of parameters includes tire length?
@ I just found this in Endless Sphere: “TireLength: measure your tire circumference and the BMS will use this value to calculate speed and distances. If you want to use this function you'll need to derivate a wire from one of the hall sensors to the BMS. It's pretty convenient and it works well, so it's a nice thing to have.” I have no idea where you can input the hall sensor signal, but assuming you did connect it, then it would need tire Length (probably circumference) and Pulse value so it knee how many times that hall sensor has to change from high to low to make one revolution. But I never dug into it. To use it with a removable battery like I have you need a special charging plug with some communication ports. Mine is just the standard EIC 320 rice cooker plug. Lol
@@Bitathisandthat yes, I was surprised how well balanced it stayed while in storage for 3 months. Only brick #13 had some discharge but 0.004v over 3 months is probably nothing to worry about. If it was 0.004v per day, thats a different story. Lol I’m preparing to use this pack and duct tape it to my VESC ebike and see if 13s5p 18650 can do significantly better than the original 10s4p. I think the 48v without field weakening is going to give me the speed I want (45 kph) and keep cruise amps within reason. Eventually through various experiments I can see if this stock motor is sufficient, or if I need the 2000w motor which needs a lot more amps. Ultimately I want a battery inside the 60mm diameter frame that can get me 0-45 kph with reasonable acceleration. The original battery doesn’t. Lol
@@imho7250 i need ti start buying bms's with bluetooth in them..im going to put a bigger bms in my 13s 9p battery soon as i would like to add more power as its only got a 60amp bms in it atm. does your bike not do 50ks atm??..your running a decent size controller arent you?? as my 1000watt wheel does 62ks i mat have asked this question b4...im unsure...lol I like watching your videos
@@Bitathisandthat yes. After learning about Bluetooth BMS and using one on the 20s6p 32700 LiFePO4 battery I made, I will never use any BMS without Bluetooth if at all possible to get it. Size and power is the big problem. This one is very compact and available in 40a/100a or 80a/200a. It’s perfect for my old ebike battery box but too big for my 60mm tube frame so I need a different solution. Lucky VESC controllers with CAN BUS will work with tiny “charge only” bms with canbus, and the bms tells the controller to throttle back instead of slamming the discharge port shut. And in the vesc app you can see what each brick voltage is. This battery in this video had a cell with a CID that popped but it wasn’t easily identifiable with the original bms. As soon as I installed the ANT it was very obvious one brick had a problem, and I found the dead cell and replaced it and the battery has been working fine ever since. But it’s only 5a/cell continuous. Ampace just released a JP30 18650 cell which appears to put the Molicel P30B in the 💩 pile. Lol. But I haven’t seen them for sale yet. I have to wait for Mooch or one of the testers to test it and compare with other 18650 cells.
@@technologicalsingularity1788 its hard to say because it came inside the battery box of a $300 ebike, but was very weak so I removed it from the battery box and sliced personal the shrink wrap to see whats going on. Inside I found they used a 13s5p battery kit, but only populated 2 of the 5p, so it was a 13s. Then, since the holders and nickel strips were all already there, i simply bought 39x more 18650 and added them. Keeping the original 15a dumb bms. That is shown in this video: ruclips.net/video/XogyEthUxFc/видео.htmlsi=29GqWwowU0X0e1o5 After that of course it did much better of course but somewhere along the way I went to charge it and it would not fully charge to 54.6v, so i opened it again and found a low cell group and manually charged that group with my hobby charger, then it would charge to 54.6 and go into balance maintenance. Later, i bought the smallest ANT bms made (7s-16s 80a/200a) and that just barely fit inside the battery box. This was so I can use larger controller than 15a and see whats going on inside my battery, and also be ready for a battery upgrade later. So I installed that and then was able to see what was really going on. I noticed after letting the ANT balance the cells to 0.000v at the top, when i give full throttle, once cell group sagged noticeably more than the others. And as i drained the pack, that same cell group at rest was showing a lower and lower voltage compared to the others cell groups. With dumb BMS it would have be a headache to figure this out. Basically you could only top charge it, reassemble it, discharge it, disassemble it, and manually read each cell group. But otherwise you have no way. This is why all my ebike batteries use a Bluetooth BMS. So i did find and replace that dead cell, it was actually one of the liito kala cells. Lucky i had a spare. After that its differential under load was more reasonable and also stays within reason as the battery got near empty. So then I installed a 27a controller and the battery worked very well for that, because the cells were real world rated 5a continuous, 10a peak, so with 5p its. 25a continuous 50a peak battery, so i set the ANT bms to allow 25a continuous and 26a-50a for 30 seconds (for acceleration). And it worked fine. But then I bought a 2000w motor, same diameter as the original motor (150mm) but it had wider magnets (30H vs 23H) and fewer turns. Just guessing but maybe original motor was 16 turns with only 6 strands of wire, and the new motor has 3 turns with 40 stands of wire. This net effect was the motor kT dropped in half, so now the 27a of the new controller only gave the similar acceleration to the old motor with 15a. But the kV was much higher so now instead of 33kph top speed, it would go 50 kph on 48v. The next step was to install a Fardriver 72360, and set it to 60a max DC with an rpm limit to pull it down to 25a, then i set the ANT bms to allow 30a continuous and 31a-70a peak for 30 seconds. Now i got double the acceleration of the original ebike, and a decent top speed. Bur at this point i had a motor rated at 40a continuous, 120a peak battery amps, and a controller that can go to 190a DC, but a weak battery, so i made a 16s5p Molicel P42a pack to replace this 13s5p pack, so it can handle 100a continuous and 200a peak. Now everything was well matched. The bike could do 72 kph without field weakening, and cruise at the speed with 40a. So the battery in this video sat for several months without a BMS. The total hours/cycles is pretty low. And sitting without cycling is likely why 12 cell groups had no self discharge, or at least the same as all of that 12. The #13 group with 0.004v drop might have a tiny insignificant self discharge. If I had been charging and discharging this pack, without allowing any balance maintenance, the cells will drift apart more because because now the difference in internal resistance will turn some energy into heat as it charges and discharges. But after owning a smart bms, i will never make a battery without one.
@@imho7250 Dude that is awesome. As an ebike/battery pack bulider myself, I found the balance status of your "old"pack with "dumb" bms was so good ( Within 4mV), I just HAD to ask. 😅😅 Ride safe brother!
@ , the old pack, back when it had the dumb bms, was manually balanced with my hobby charger because it was too far out to balance automatically. I have some videos showing how to check if a dumb bms is entering balance mode or shutting off due to unit overvoltage protection. At a certain point, with standard charger taper, is one cell group is significantly lower, the pack voltage will not get high enough to start the taper, so then it quickly pushes one cell group to OVP. Then the voltage surge subsides below bleed voltage, so no bleeding is done. I already installed the ANYon this pack before, and laat time before removing the ANT, i balanced to 0.000v at a reasonable storage voltage instead of fully charged. I moved the ANT to my molicel pack, which is why this pack has no BMS. But i got careless in my molicel build and burned holes in the bottom of about 15 cells. I knew when it happened because you can hear it as soon as it gets a hole. But I ignored it and finished it and it worked fine initially. However over time, as the electrolyte leaked out, whos job is to prevent electrons from going through the inside of the battery, well, amazingly enough, electrons starting flowing through the battery. Lol. This meant that even when sitting idle, those cells would self discharge. At first the ANT could keep up, but eventually the worst groups discharged so much overnight that I knew it was going to become unsafe, eventually becoming nearly a direct short circuit. Again, it was the ANT telling me all this. With a dumb BMS you might not know until after the battery catches on fire. So i tore down the battery and tested each P42acell voltage, let them sit a month, then tested again, and any not self-discharged I will keep, any that drop even 0.002v i will not reuse. So thats how the ANT was free to be temporary attached to the old battery about 3 month ago when I did a perfect balance to 0.000v difference, then removed the bms and set the battery in a box. It was at this time i changed the ANT settings from 16s of the molicel pack to 13s of the 18650 pack. In this video I simply temporarily reconnected the ANT, which was still programmed for 13s, Thats why it immediately read correctly. Unfortunately, people who don’t understand batteries would see this behavior, a battery in storage staying in balance, and think they don’t need no stinking BMS. But the BMS is there to catch many problems during charging and discharging. Obviously if the battery is idle and gets an internal short, the BMS cannot do anything about that.
@@imho7250 Yeah man, I personally under any circumstances seal the 10~20Ah pack with dumb bms which has balance current of 50"m"A lol. I at least put balance wires out of the pack or use smart bms with the bluetooth function. Dumb bms has it's place though, prevents house fire and ease of use for majority of normal people who just plug and play and do not care about voltage balance or some thing unlike some nerds (for example, you and me. 😂😂) And speaking of burn through hole while spot weldong, It really hurts. As soon as I catch that sweet smell of electrolyte, I'm DONE lol. I double, triple check the setting of my spot welder every time I use it. Consistant spot welding is definitely not easy. It's like soldering. Requires lot of practicing than I thought.
0:00 First step is always connect BMS B(-) to the battery (-) before connecting any other wires to the BMS.
0:18 I use an alligator clip to temporarily hold the ANT B- to battery (-).
0:31 Next find the balance lead connector with the black (-) wire and connect it to the ANT.
1:10 Last wire to connect before starting the ANT is the connector with the red wire. Connecting red wire before any ground wire can permanently damage the BMS.
1:40 for ANT with tiny red and black wires (the worst type), you need a 3v-5v power source to jump start it at this stage. You can also boot any BMS by connecting the charger.
1:49 you will hear a beep when the ANT boots up and see a flashing light showing Bluetooth is on.
2:35 now you can connect the ANT app to the ANT BMS
2:48 we can see bricks 1-12 are all still perfectly balanced, meaning there is no abnormal self-discharge while sitting. But #13 is 0.004v lower.
2:54 0.004v drop over 3 months is nothing to be alarmed over, but it is why EVERY bms will try to do some balancing maintenance.
3:03 cheap dumb BMS will try to do balancing maintenance each time you fully charge the pack and leave the charger plugged in for a while after the light turns green.
3:13 The ANT can be set to balance automatically or it can be manually initiated and will balance all bricks to within 0.000v.
3:29 I will not start an Autobalancing session right now, I will wait until I charge it to about 4.15v/cell and then balance it.
This BMS has been running for 204 days without all 4 temperature sensors.?
Also, what is the tire length option in the parameters ?
@ , unfortunately this 7s-16s model only comes with 2 temperature sensors and it has the worst boot wires (red + black) so you need a battery to boot it if you don’t have your charger nearby and you accidentally turn it off. Lol.
The better ANT have 4 temperature sensors and two small black wires for booting that only needs momentarily switch to boot up the ANT and Bluetooth.
Not sure about tire length because the ANT by itself has no idea what the tire is doing. It only knows about the battery. Which set of parameters includes tire length?
@ I just found this in Endless Sphere:
“TireLength: measure your tire circumference and the BMS will use this value to calculate speed and distances. If you want to use this function you'll need to derivate a wire from one of the hall sensors to the BMS. It's pretty convenient and it works well, so it's a nice thing to have.”
I have no idea where you can input the hall sensor signal, but assuming you did connect it, then it would need tire Length (probably circumference) and Pulse value so it knee how many times that hall sensor has to change from high to low to make one revolution.
But I never dug into it. To use it with a removable battery like I have you need a special charging plug with some communication ports. Mine is just the standard EIC 320 rice cooker plug. Lol
Nice even looking banks.
@@Bitathisandthat yes, I was surprised how well balanced it stayed while in storage for 3 months. Only brick #13 had some discharge but 0.004v over 3 months is probably nothing to worry about. If it was 0.004v per day, thats a different story. Lol
I’m preparing to use this pack and duct tape it to my VESC ebike and see if 13s5p 18650 can do significantly better than the original 10s4p.
I think the 48v without field weakening is going to give me the speed I want (45 kph) and keep cruise amps within reason.
Eventually through various experiments I can see if this stock motor is sufficient, or if I need the 2000w motor which needs a lot more amps.
Ultimately I want a battery inside the 60mm diameter frame that can get me 0-45 kph with reasonable acceleration. The original battery doesn’t. Lol
@@imho7250 i need ti start buying bms's with bluetooth in them..im going to put a bigger bms in my 13s 9p battery soon as i would like to add more power as its only got a 60amp bms in it atm.
does your bike not do 50ks atm??..your running a decent size controller arent you?? as my 1000watt wheel does 62ks
i mat have asked this question b4...im unsure...lol
I like watching your videos
@@Bitathisandthat yes. After learning about Bluetooth BMS and using one on the 20s6p 32700 LiFePO4 battery I made, I will never use any BMS without Bluetooth if at all possible to get it. Size and power is the big problem.
This one is very compact and available in 40a/100a or 80a/200a. It’s perfect for my old ebike battery box but too big for my 60mm tube frame so I need a different solution. Lucky VESC controllers with CAN BUS will work with tiny “charge only” bms with canbus, and the bms tells the controller to throttle back instead of slamming the discharge port shut. And in the vesc app you can see what each brick voltage is.
This battery in this video had a cell with a CID that popped but it wasn’t easily identifiable with the original bms. As soon as I installed the ANT it was very obvious one brick had a problem, and I found the dead cell and replaced it and the battery has been working fine ever since. But it’s only 5a/cell continuous.
Ampace just released a JP30 18650 cell which appears to put the Molicel P30B in the 💩 pile. Lol. But I haven’t seen them for sale yet. I have to wait for Mooch or one of the testers to test it and compare with other 18650 cells.
How much did you use that pack??
cycle number or something.
Nicely balanced.
@@technologicalsingularity1788 its hard to say because it came inside the battery box of a $300 ebike, but was very weak so I removed it from the battery box and sliced personal the shrink wrap to see whats going on. Inside I found they used a 13s5p battery kit, but only populated 2 of the 5p, so it was a 13s. Then, since the holders and nickel strips were all already there, i simply bought 39x more 18650 and added them. Keeping the original 15a dumb bms.
That is shown in this video: ruclips.net/video/XogyEthUxFc/видео.htmlsi=29GqWwowU0X0e1o5
After that of course it did much better of course but somewhere along the way I went to charge it and it would not fully charge to 54.6v, so i opened it again and found a low cell group and manually charged that group with my hobby charger, then it would charge to 54.6 and go into balance maintenance.
Later, i bought the smallest ANT bms made (7s-16s 80a/200a) and that just barely fit inside the battery box. This was so I can use larger controller than 15a and see whats going on inside my battery, and also be ready for a battery upgrade later. So I installed that and then was able to see what was really going on.
I noticed after letting the ANT balance the cells to 0.000v at the top, when i give full throttle, once cell group sagged noticeably more than the others. And as i drained the pack, that same cell group at rest was showing a lower and lower voltage compared to the others cell groups. With dumb BMS it would have be a headache to figure this out. Basically you could only top charge it, reassemble it, discharge it, disassemble it, and manually read each cell group. But otherwise you have no way. This is why all my ebike batteries use a Bluetooth BMS.
So i did find and replace that dead cell, it was actually one of the liito kala cells. Lucky i had a spare. After that its differential under load was more reasonable and also stays within reason as the battery got near empty.
So then I installed a 27a controller and the battery worked very well for that, because the cells were real world rated 5a continuous, 10a peak, so with 5p its. 25a continuous 50a peak battery, so i set the ANT bms to allow 25a continuous and 26a-50a for 30 seconds (for acceleration). And it worked fine.
But then I bought a 2000w motor, same diameter as the original motor (150mm) but it had wider magnets (30H vs 23H) and fewer turns. Just guessing but maybe original motor was 16 turns with only 6 strands of wire, and the new motor has 3 turns with 40 stands of wire. This net effect was the motor kT dropped in half, so now the 27a of the new controller only gave the similar acceleration to the old motor with 15a.
But the kV was much higher so now instead of 33kph top speed, it would go 50 kph on 48v.
The next step was to install a Fardriver 72360, and set it to 60a max DC with an rpm limit to pull it down to 25a, then i set the ANT bms to allow 30a continuous and 31a-70a peak for 30 seconds. Now i got double the acceleration of the original ebike, and a decent top speed.
Bur at this point i had a motor rated at 40a continuous, 120a peak battery amps, and a controller that can go to 190a DC, but a weak battery, so i made a 16s5p Molicel P42a pack to replace this 13s5p pack, so it can handle 100a continuous and 200a peak. Now everything was well matched. The bike could do 72 kph without field weakening, and cruise at the speed with 40a.
So the battery in this video sat for several months without a BMS.
The total hours/cycles is pretty low. And sitting without cycling is likely why 12 cell groups had no self discharge, or at least the same as all of that 12. The #13 group with 0.004v drop might have a tiny insignificant self discharge.
If I had been charging and discharging this pack, without allowing any balance maintenance, the cells will drift apart more because because now the difference in internal resistance will turn some energy into heat as it charges and discharges.
But after owning a smart bms, i will never make a battery without one.
@@imho7250 Dude that is awesome. As an ebike/battery pack bulider myself, I found the balance status of your "old"pack with "dumb" bms was so good ( Within 4mV), I just HAD to ask. 😅😅
Ride safe brother!
@ , the old pack, back when it had the dumb bms, was manually balanced with my hobby charger because it was too far out to balance automatically. I have some videos showing how to check if a dumb bms is entering balance mode or shutting off due to unit overvoltage protection. At a certain point, with standard charger taper, is one cell group is significantly lower, the pack voltage will not get high enough to start the taper, so then it quickly pushes one cell group to OVP. Then the voltage surge subsides below bleed voltage, so no bleeding is done.
I already installed the ANYon this pack before, and laat time before removing the ANT, i balanced to 0.000v at a reasonable storage voltage instead of fully charged.
I moved the ANT to my molicel pack, which is why this pack has no BMS. But i got careless in my molicel build and burned holes in the bottom of about 15 cells. I knew when it happened because you can hear it as soon as it gets a hole. But I ignored it and finished it and it worked fine initially.
However over time, as the electrolyte leaked out, whos job is to prevent electrons from going through the inside of the battery, well, amazingly enough, electrons starting flowing through the battery. Lol. This meant that even when sitting idle, those cells would self discharge.
At first the ANT could keep up, but eventually the worst groups discharged so much overnight that I knew it was going to become unsafe, eventually becoming nearly a direct short circuit. Again, it was the ANT telling me all this. With a dumb BMS you might not know until after the battery catches on fire.
So i tore down the battery and tested each P42acell voltage, let them sit a month, then tested again, and any not self-discharged I will keep, any that drop even 0.002v i will not reuse.
So thats how the ANT was free to be temporary attached to the old battery about 3 month ago when I did a perfect balance to 0.000v difference, then removed the bms and set the battery in a box. It was at this time i changed the ANT settings from 16s of the molicel pack to 13s of the 18650 pack.
In this video I simply temporarily reconnected the ANT, which was still programmed for 13s, Thats why it immediately read correctly.
Unfortunately, people who don’t understand batteries would see this behavior, a battery in storage staying in balance, and think they don’t need no stinking BMS. But the BMS is there to catch many problems during charging and discharging. Obviously if the battery is idle and gets an internal short, the BMS cannot do anything about that.
@@imho7250 Yeah man, I personally under any circumstances seal the 10~20Ah pack with dumb bms which has balance current of 50"m"A lol. I at least put balance wires out of the pack or use smart bms with the bluetooth function. Dumb bms has it's place though, prevents house fire and ease of use for majority of normal people who just plug and play and do not care about voltage balance or some thing unlike some nerds (for example, you and me. 😂😂) And speaking of burn through hole while spot weldong, It really hurts. As soon as I catch that sweet smell of electrolyte, I'm DONE lol. I double, triple check the setting of my spot welder every time I use it. Consistant spot welding is definitely not easy. It's like soldering. Requires lot of practicing than I thought.