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Why we think it's OK to cheat and steal (sometimes) | Dan Ariely
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- Опубликовано: 17 мар 2009
- www.ted.com Behavioral economist Dan Ariely studies the bugs in our moral code: the hidden reasons we think it's OK to cheat or steal (sometimes). Clever studies help make his point that we're predictably irrational -- and can be influenced in ways we can't grasp.
TEDTalks is a daily video podcast of the best talks and performances from the TED Conference, where the world's leading thinkers and doers give the talk of their lives in 18 minutes. Featured speakers have included Al Gore on climate change, Philippe Starck on design, Jill Bolte Taylor on observing her own stroke, Nicholas Negroponte on One Laptop per Child, Jane Goodall on chimpanzees, Bill Gates on malaria and mosquitoes and "Lost" producer JJ Abrams on the allure of mystery. TED stands for Technology, Entertainment, Design, and TEDTalks cover these topics as well as science, business, development and the arts. Watch the Top 10 TEDTalks on TED.com, at www.ted.com/ind...
I have heard that workers tend to steal from their employer more often if they feel they are being treated unfairly.
Would make sense if true.
Definitely eye for an eye old world style
@@arveyilleszender5809as i drink my free monster eating my free chips stocking yalls shelves at 2am for 8/hr. Very deserved
As a nurse, I promise to never forget the lessons I have learned from this talk, and I thank you.
I work in a burn ICU...I ALWAYS ask the patient if they prefer me ripping the bandages off quickly or working on them slowly. I also ask how they prefer me cleaning their skin: softer/quicker brushes with the washcloth or larger/sweeping movements with the washcloth.
Definitely still watch it because it's a great talk and he puts it better than I can, but..
1. Most people cheat a little bit
2. We cheat less when reminded of our morality
3. We cheat more based on the distance from the cheat, or distance from money (stealing a 10c pencil being easier than stealing 10c from a tip jar)
4. our intuition can make us stubborn and wrong
Love how he was truely the star subject/poster child for his own work.
When I was a nurse, removing stuck bandaging was a major dilemma. I used to ask the patients what they thought would work best, and some patients wanted slow removal, others wanted the bandages ripped off.... so from this I never did learn what was best of those two options, but my third option, of removing bandages with heaps of saline-soaked swabs was good for stopping pain, as the wetness would dissolve the adhering matter, but it made folks cold, so that was a slight drama too!
Someone who dislikes cheating and tells me not to cheat and/or steal is someone who himself found a flaw in cheating. Somebody (NOT SOMEONE) who says never cheat is saying so because his cheating has resulted in the disruption of his family life. This somebody has cheated because he can never trust his family members in entrusting them with his legacy and his inheritance. This is because of the logic that his legacy and his inheritance will fall into the wrong hands and it has resulted in the destruction of his legacy and his inheritance. But how? He has received the result of his experiment as something unwanted. He wanted people not to cheat him, and never lie to him, but people used this as a weakness to be exploited. The people were using their definition of what's a lie and what's cheating in the framework of the system he built.
Let's understand the above statement by an example.
Say, a big businessman built a system where people cannot cheat him and cannot lie to him. But for this system to be successful, he has to manifest his definition of honesty and truth outside of himself. But the variable in all 4 - cheating, lying, honesty, and truthfulness is dependent on one single constant - moha (or attachment). Cheating, lying, honesty, and truthfulness are based on towards or away from the thing they are attached to. And the person who cheats on this businessman will cheat because of his family. And if you understand what I am trying to say, you are stuck in a repetition of iterations made by a mad person like a psychopath to trick you into accepting a framework made to destroy your company.
As an owner, you laid a foundation of your company to never cheat and lie because you want to build a company that is a family. And your employees followed not the rule which said never to cheat and lie - but they followed the rule of building their family. Which angered you. Because what you said was a reversal of the zen paradox.
I can be the guy who will never cheat and lie. But you have to first finish your desire for family first.
And lastly, your frame of reference through which you see your company is considering the people and objects as disposable cobwebs that you clean every once in an year on Diwali to give invitation of Goddess of Wealth, Lakshmi.
Great point at the end. I find we often have strong intuitions especially concerning morality that seem so obvious that we've never bothered questioning, leaving us with an opinion based on, not facts, but an intuition that hasn't been proven, which is why it's so important to always question them and test them to make sure that whatever your doing or thinking is based on facts.
Dan Ariely laid out the norms for cheating and stealing. In such situations we tend to convince ourselves that what we do is not entirely wrong.
It's not "intuition" when a nurse is incapable of listening to her patient's wishes. The nurse isn't experiencing physical pain. The nurse doesn't want to endure the emotional pain of ripping bandages for two hours. I wish his doctor had intervened. I was in an American hospital for months. The things some nurses do is unconscionable.
Where my dad stayed, they stole pills and called the patients crazy when they wanted their pain meds.
my mum is a nurse who works in burns unit. She says they give the patients morphine, use a solution to make the bandages easier to peel, and take their time since ripping the bandage will pull off small amounts of skin, which burns patients need pretty badly.
I wonder why this guys experience was so different
Different part of the world, different times. I'm only 29, but remember the first time I went to adults' dentist. They cleaned my canals without anesthesia. I screamed and cried like a little baby. And they probably did it just to save the lidocaine or whatever. That's how people behaved when we were occupied by the soviets. And it still shows in a lot of things around here where I live.
We have a culture that has high tolerance for a small amount of cheating, lying and breaking the law.
If you remind someone doing 56 in a 55 MPH zone, that they are breaking the law, odds are good that they knew their speed and did not consider themselves a law breaker.
Its not just about law breakers ... the main people that love to cheat are the ones that love to hide the evidence so that they dont get into trouble. No proof means no problem apparently.
Id argue those people are worse than law breakers. You consider a law breaker who blatantly breaks the law whether intentionally or not intentionally but at the end they get due punishments and serve their punishment for unethical behaviour. And in some cases some laws dont truly define ethics yet people get imprisoned for frivilous action that doesnt negatively impact others well beings.
You got liars and crooks and manipulative people who constantly hide evidence to not get caught and get away with unethical behaviour to not serve any mode of punishment and constantly disrupt the progressive flow of society.
These same people are selfish and believe in survival at the expense of other peoples well being for their own satisfaction and others well being but get offended if you deem it as such because thats not something they ever verbally said although its definitely based off logic what they imply through their actions. People love to exploit systems and say "you have no proof so i did nothing wrong" yet they know they are crooked and probably did something wrong. Although in some cases this isnt true. Some people do just try to frame people but usually for some form of personal gain.
These exploiters are definitely worse than a lawbreaker yet institutionalized people tend to not think beyond the institutions to realize and understand that truth.
So because its so normalized to cheat in society to survive and its seen as justified to do whatever you can to survive within the confines of the law and how it can be exploited ... people think its okay to cheat when its not.
We allow primal survival instincts to seem justified in decision making which if we allow such a primitive mode of being to constitute our way of living we will go backwards as a society and wont allow ourselves to move forward to a more fair future. Which also means the one thing that seperates us humans generally from other wild animals will no longer exist. Humans are known for being more capable of thinking than most animals yet most of us only rely on memory (not thinking) and on exploits and on doing anything by any means the same way animals behave to survive so what makes you any different if you do the same thing ... you cant rank yourself amongst those who actually use their brains to advance society snd not for self interest. Survival is not important without purpose and reason which any smart person knows or at least understands ... if you dont believe me ask the animals living a constant cycle feeling threatened by anything and everything they come into contact with.
Survival with no self instantiated purpose equates to aimless elongating an inevitable death. And ending life not finding closure in understanding how life works and how things are plotted out for us is problematic. You will reach the end and go out fighting what you failed to understand in life instead of aiming to be familiar with the process
There is no mode of happiness in nature by just surviving and prolonging the inevitable with no sense of purpose except a fear of losing life.
These same law exploiters ... the people who do whatever to benefit themselves are the cause and continuation of corruption in society and distance humanity from what could and should be. We will never reach true levels of happiness at tht rate and will continue to fake it and take pictures to seem like you attained happiness and if you have its usually at the cost of others happiness. Thats the life we live now generally and its sad to have to live through although in ways its understandable.
The one thing i came to realize to be truthful if you live life too much in thought and consideration and idealism you are likely to not survive in most cases because you are thinking so much you stop yourself from doing things and executing when society is in desperate need of action.
But similar holds true to the opposite. You live life aimlessly and only do without conscious understanding of the affects of what you are doing you can survive but you will live a dangerous lifestyle that could lead to altercation and abrupt death. And definitely will never trurly be hapoy with anything that happens along the journey. So i find it understandable why there may be a reluctance to have too many people think too much and not just abide institutions
But spiteful terrible people tend to be the ones that benefit in life and that is something that needs to change for me to alleviate this fixation that it is okay to lie. But the problematic people dont like the idea of change usually because they fear their incompetence will not fair in the midst of change and that the change will negatively affect them or the flow of things generally. If they build up their understanding and competence they would feel different and more optimistic to change that is aimed to better everyones lives.
Matthew Curiel I agree
He deserved that standing ovation. What an amazing talk.
It is interesting how we feel that our identity relies on these "intuitions", as if morality were static, and apart from ourselves. Also I think it was a really great point to actually show how these intuitions are illusory and must be tested. I found this speech very liberating.
Rolex is expensive because the company created the myth of "explicity". It goes the same with german and french cars. It's not that they are better cared for when they are made, it's the public's idea about you now that you own it and that is something all people in the developed countries unfortunately contribute in. That's how it all intertwines... The economy, politics, wars, it all depends on what we admire and how we think and act.
10 years later, this is still one of my favorite videos.
13:14 is true, at least in my case. I've always been a stickler for rules but I've cheated on an exam w/ friends on my last year at elementary. I don't remember who started but I remember how I had such fun doing it: trying to suppress our giggles while passing pieces of crumpled cheat sheets under the nose of our myopic proctor. We could have easily passed that exam w/o cheating. We were confronted. Now I remember it w/ distaste. Truly "bad associations spoil useful habits." (Paul of Tarsus)
Well, given recent revelations, he IS an expert.
What's getting me about this regarding the bandage analogy is one very. very important detail. If they did it the slower, better-for-that-patient way, they'd take twice as long. That extra hour will not go to another patient, who needs the care. So the question isn't just 'good care for this one patient' it's 'make sure all patients get care'. We're taught 'take the bandage off fast because it's better', and that's just understood as standard. But part of the reason taking the bandage off fast is good is not because of personal 'less trauma', but also because of 'economy of time'. Isn't it better that everyone gets some, but not perfect, care, than for some to get perfect care, and others to get less than perfect or worse no care?
All this happened to him in Israel I believe. I'm sure nurse's time is valuable everywhere, but I don't know if they have as much of a shortage in nurse time in Israel as they do in North America (Canada and US)
Well said, Uturuncu. I've shown this video numerous times over the years to students in Leadership, Negotiation, and Strategy classes, and most of the time the point you bring up is also raised by students. I'm still waiting for Ariely to subject himself to his own "Predictably Irrational" approach to his own story.
I hear what you are saying. However this is my argument daily in my job caring for seniors. It isn't right to rush someones care in the last days of their life, or at any time. Invest more money in to health care, so that each patient gets better care. I would gladly pay higher taxes for this. I live in Canada where health care is free, but it is not meeting the mark as it should be. The better question is what do we value? Lets invest in better care for everyone.
Yep depends on which country you are in
However that is not the argument taht the nurses made. it was an argument of "we are the experts; we know aht is best for you" . If they ahd argued time management they would ahve been right; but they did not.
I've seen many people steal and cheat when growing up. I find that those who do it have little to no ethics and they justify their actions with their skewed mindset. You cannot stop them completely. You need to keep reminding them it's bad, but once your guard goes down they start again. The only way not to deal with these people is to only deal with good people and from experience that's about 1 in 5.
More than likely, you are a hypocrite
@@MatthewIsMatthew hypocrite? In what way? I put this comment 5 years ago so a bit out of touch now.
Predictably Irrational is one of the best book I've read last year. It's a super easy read and really mind blowing.
Best TED talk ever!
Oh my god, his overall conclusion from this study is pretty helpful with a particular situation I have experienced recently.
I guess it is up to us whether to do the right thing or not.
I guess 2+2 does = 4.
It's up to us to ask others if they agree with the consequences of our activities.
We are not quite developed enough to reason about these things in an automatic way (without a lot of effort) so we don’t. It’s just how we work; time and an increase awareness of these important ideas may one day change how we think and behave.
My favourite author :), I love when he speaks, it is such a inspiration. It would be pleasure if you could visit Brno, Czech republic :)
now i see!
Thank you!
Like a 'to do" list!
Yes, better to do things before we die.. after is not possible :)
A long time ago you wrote the chat
@Experiment47 It is a psychological perspective thing. I see stealing money as worse than stealing a coke because money represents a degree of choice - I am not only taking someone else's money but I am supplanting their will with my own by limiting their options whereas with taking a coke I am just stealing a single choice they made. The former feels more disrespectful and severe somehow, since the line of casualty for my actions is more uncertain as the money hadn't been spent yet.
wow i only recently found this channel, and i absolutely love it.
@8DX Yes. This is the second video of this guy I have seen, and they have both been very good.
Great talk. I really enjoy this way of thinking about putting our intuitions to tests.
I work doing pizza delivery and I see this every single day. My fellow drivers will immediately point out if a cashier gives them too much money back (when they cash in from a delivery) but then every single day they lie about how much they made in tips so they don't have to pay as much taxes. Every day. I'm the only driver out of 14 drivers that accurately reports my tips (I do so for many reasons). And they see absolutely NOTHING wrong with what they are doing.
Why is it wrong? Taxation is theft
I love this guy's Inquisitor style. "All different levels of pain, and after torturing them...."
But no really, Ariely is genius. TED, you work wonders for my writers block. If I become famous for the cloud of ideas I get from you, I'll be sure to send you another comment like this one to thank you, my kind, multi-being friend, cyber, plutonic friend.
you famous yet?
Great talk. Professor Ariely is a really special person.
This needs more views. Imagine if this message ever made it to Congress. Any chance of a re-upload, TED? You could even start a limited "Classic TED Talks" series.
Perceived value versus what you think you deserve. Mind blown. Wait, do I deserve to have my mind blown and if so by how much?
TED presentations are so informative and beneficial. What a great job you do! This is an important dicussion and I thank you for bringing it to me!
Fantastic! One of the best Ted talks I have seen recently.
Side note: To some posters commenting on whether or not he implies a difference between atheists and theists, he doesn't. In fact, his point is ONLY that making someone AWARE of their moral code decreases their cheating, regardless of their background. The Bible is known by all as A moral code, whether or not they believe its contents. Its presence alone brings what moral codes people DO follow into conscious thought.
Isn't he amazing and so real! Just pure of heart I think which melts away any scars which he thinks we all perceive. :)
what an amazing argument, not a shitflinging contest.
i applaud all involved.
He gave a talk to some students today about cheating. I'm glad I was there! Hopefully I'll see him at Duke some time in the next few years...
Human cheating is a little more complicated than the grooming habits of birds and other similar behaviour but I agree. I think we all have a natural tendency to try to get maximum profit for minimum effort. I think we also have a natural tendency to obey social contracts (like the ten commandments) and these two contradictory impulses are constantly at war with each other. We use environmental cues to tell us which is the most appropriate impulse to follow and how best to do it.
sorry, my English is not good..
what is a "bucket list"?
11 years but it's a list of things to do before you kick the bucket (die).
Well I think another thing that contributes to the less pain over longer periods is the body's natural reactions to pain. The first pain will set off chemicals to prepare us for more pain...and they will dampen further pain a bit.
I had a teacher once who said "If you're not cheating, you're not trying."
I think he hit the nail on the head. It is all about our intuitious, our beliefs so to speak. How we get our beliefs is buy our education, the people around us and our experiences. If we are brought up believing that committing something bad results in a punishment we're always going to avoid that punishment so we're not going to do something morally wrong. If you remove that punishment (remove the risk of getting caught) Would we still avoid doing it?
its kinda like in the online gaming world where if legit game play is not the norm everyone who still plays, cheats enough to stay in competition. once someone sees more and more people cheating they either leave the game or they start to cheat and it becomes a game not of legit game play, but a game of who can cheat the best.
Man, that was the coolest Rolex commercial ever at the end.
Oh, and I am in behavioral economics right now. It's interesting stuff.
that rolex add actually kept my attention all the way through. Wow!
Too bad I don't wear wrist watches. And especially too bad (for them) I can't afford one right now, anyway. Maybe I can steal one.
Ted is hands down the best channel
I always like Dan Ariely's interviews and talks-this one is fascinating. We have heard from the patient's perspective and from the nurses perspective about the bandage dilemma --should it be ripped off fast or slowly? @Uturuncu points out that there may not be enough time to go slowly which I believe would have been brought up by the nurse if that were the underlying issue, but since the nurse says she would have had emotional pain from enduring longer bandage removal I believe that was her main issue, however we haven't heard from a medical perspective. What would a dermatologist's research say? Does the body heal better, faster, or is it safer to expose the burnt skin for as little time as possible? Does the skin heal smoother with less scarring? Would it be best all-around to take bandages off slowly, in sections, and from head to toe (as Dan points out) with breaks. Within those break period allow the skin to remain unexposed or exposed, as necessary, and allow the nurse to move on to other patients under her charge. Whatever the medical research suggests, obviously, to allow the skin it's best chance. Thanks @DanAriely for your insight and research.
It is a bit interesting...
I think he even followed his own endemic formula in his presentation in that he removed the "Bandages" covering the stark aspect of our apparent inherent corruption from the Head down so that the "Duration" was broken with comic relief & commenced down towards the farthest aspects of our selves from our *Head*.
I wonder...this scientific rational theory is in everything?
Ted always leaves much More to be thoughtfully considered....brilliant & genius as always.
@gulllars I think it was also not just the threshold but also the duration. If you had to experience pain for 20 minutes or less for 30, the latter would be better. If its between 3 seconds and 10 seconds, chances are the former would be preferred.
Maggie, I tried to give you a thumbs up... but, sob, it not work... so this is my praise of your caring comment! Thank you for your lack of arrogance and your wonderful ability to listen to others!
There is most likely another factor influencing the nurse’s decision to remove the bandages fast. They may have a lot of patients and removing the bandages fast gives them more time to get their duties done with the other patients. In that sense having more nurses could alleviate the problem.
Our intuition might be wrong or right, it's our choice if we follow it or not.
one of the best TED talks ive seen in a while
Very important point at the end. We need more politicians that think like this guy.
actually thanks to those nurses Dan Ariely made this inspirational speech....
I found this idea very interesting so I chose this speech to do a research paper over, however, I am unable to find where this speech took place or what exact day (besides sometime February 2009). Anyone know where this speech took place?
It says Northern beach, California in the lower right area of the video in the beginning?
I know right? I was like oooo look at the love that goes into it, it's like a living organism. And then I thought to myself, but why would someone ever need such an expensive time-piece?....
Fantastic Tedtalks, as always. The rolex commerical was a bonus.
Sigh... I always have these intuitions I'm right.. Why does investigating my intuitions almost always prove me wrong.. sigh.
Great talk! The best of TED..
Simply amazing .. !!
Take away: do more systematic experimentation on our intuition rather than trying to draw conclusions to complex stuff where nobody really has an sufficient answer
I want this man to be part of writing our economic law. it should be rewritten, or abolish the ignorance in the system all together.
Love this Rolex commercial at the end, makes you feel smart and rich
Fascinating talk, this is why I love TED.
A sterile re-statement of two simple principles: 1. The argument from authority is a logical fallacy.
2. Check your assumptions against observations.
That's it. I've just saved you 20 minutes.
This has given me more closure than therapy
This guy's lecture should be shown to all countries fighting with endemic corruption (Romania, Russia, Asia).
wow.... wow... with tears... this is fantastic
I listened to this as a nurse. thank you
Yes, Check your intuitions
I always take the band-aid off slowly.
@aarondrake33 - not preciecly. the experiments with pain was checking if its better for the paitent, not the nurses. therefor, it had to ignore this factor anyway. after proving its better dividing the pain (for the paitent), he went back to the nurses.
i am sure that the nurses that now know (and i will check, because i work in that exact hospital) that taking bandages off slowly is better, do so. thay dont take into consideration the time factor, but treat the patient as good as thay know.
dude stands up and says he finished everything I'd have been right after him
wow, awesome lecture, definitely one of the top 10 TED presentations i've seen. what i find interesting though is that dan ariely primarily focuses here (and his other lectures/books) on social psychological theory and experiments, when he in fact majored in cognitive psychology. anyone have a possible explanation for this?
very interesting perspective on behavioral patterns Thanks for posting :)
this guy is Amazing.... also, if anyone from Rolex is reading this..... I had to get up a pee in the middle of your commercial and I actually paused the video.... and then I thought, "you've never done that before." Normally I try to ignore commercials.... I wonder how much of this has to do with the fact that you put the ad at the end of vid and actually gave me the option of not watching it... perhaps Mr. Areily could answer that question for me.
wow what a genuine person, awesome lecture.
Absolutely brilliant speaker.
@ORCA4312 Also the issue of infection. Burned skin is notoriously susceptible to infection and in cases where third degree burn victims die it is almost always from infections due to lack of protective skin. I have seen someone who became septic and, trust me, the pain of bandage removal is a lot less painful than that.
That said his point on everything related to the ways we act and the cheating still stand - I will sometimes cheat to fool around and troll but not when money is on the line.
This is very insightful, and interesting.
Wonderful, great question, great conclusion.
This video started me thinking. I would have denied being a cheat, ever, now I'm sure I am as easily manipulated by externals such as a T-shirt logo or the group dynamic to cheat a little, as anyone...
I use the quote often in a facetious way as I am a teacher. What I really mean is "think outside your box,' so I'd better start being clearer, LOL.
I suspect one reason why nurses remove bandages quickly instead of slowly is because taking twice as long to do so would leave them with less time to do other things, which in turn would cause the hospital to have to hire more nurses, thus driving up costs for all patients. His experiment with the vice & other pain-causing devices completely ignored this factor.
A bucket list is a list of things to do before you die.
Brilliant! Wish him all the best
Thievery is one of the most lowlife things a person can do. It’s not okay no matter what excuses you make up to convince yourself it is
Whoa... that was eye opening...
The pain was so bad he turned into a behavioral economics professor
"THOU SHALL NOT STEAL" It is written for a reason , Your long term life will be one of peace
Very interesting topic, TED at it's best.
Actually, I think you have his argument backwards. The fact that atheists reacted the same way to the 10 Commandments question indicates that religion was irrelevant.
The key observation is that everyone - religious or not - wants to think of themselves as a being a "good person" and the 10 Commandments question - or signing a secular code of honor - reminds people to think in these terms.
This guy is like Count Rugen in Princess Bride, lol
Excellent experiments!
Thought it was called an escapement, not an oscillator?
I love listening to him!
This guy's great - I'm buying his book today.
Wow, these types of studies can change the world if used... In fact I'm going to find some way to apply it in my country. Graffiti’s of role models near of public offices could work.
Thank you.