They said they're going to release a master plan on how to craft your own CRT from scratch using modern techniques. It's a bit of a process, so the wait will be worth it.
[ Coury ] I'm not sure when it'll happen. I highly recommend the YT channel Retro Tech for tons of CRT and PVM videos that cover the subject pretty thoroughly.
FYI - ruclips.net/channel/UCwOTvOtoAjiqQx1PCrfmTKw For example, ruclips.net/video/xAbqucrWHjU/видео.html I'm personnaly not sure I want to mess THAT much with my CRT TV 😅
This is really great! I used it through my super everdrive to help fix some geometry issues with one of my trinitrons. For those who don't know there is a secret service menu you can access on Sony Trinitrons. Have the TV turned off then QUICKLY press "Display" - "5" - "Volume +" then power on.
IMO, the Drop Shadow test is the most important tool for identifying how well your TV/scaler handles 240p-specific effects, so kudos for demonstrating how it's supposed to look on one setup and how it fails on another.
Another great video guys. Btw Linearity test is also very useful on HDTVs and scalers. You can use it to check that the circles are perfectly round (use a tape measure if necessary). Quite often HDTVs squash the Dreamcasts picture in particular and adding a bit of horizontal zoom is necessary for the perfect picture.
Riverhill [Coury] We'll go deeper into it in the CRT, PVM, etc. episode. Like I said to someone else below: The way to adjust this is using the service menu, which is a hidden menu in the TV. Each make has a different way of accessing it. Its a very, very touchy thing though, since you can mess up your TV with it. Its meant for professional repair people. If you do decide to look into this and figure out how to access it, make sure you take note of the values of every entry before you start to tweak, so you can start over if you want. Its very possible to make it worse then not be able to get back to where you started, since there is no factory resets on consumer TVs. Its worth noting though, as the size of the CRT gets bigger, it gets more and more difficult to get it right. Sometimes impossible. My 27 inch Toshiba flat CRT is what I showed to demonstrate it in this video and thats after tons of tweaking. Its one of those things that once you notice it, you'll always notice it, even if its minor. Hard to believe that this issue has always been there, but its been practically invisible to our eyes until we spent a bunch of time on a HDTV. Going back you're like "wait, has it always been like this?" Answer: yes.
***** Started to note the difference after getting a 27 inch Sony flat, especially on scrolling backgrounds. It is definitely something that's hard not to pay attention to once you notice it. Guess I'm in for a day of meticulous tweaking once I find the service menu option from a service manual. Thanks for the tips!
Riverhill Just a heads up, you can dramatically improve your CRT's geometry through the service menu HOWEVER it is very very annoying to fix. I am in the process of doing it right now and almost ready to give up. You fix one thing, then you mess up another. I guess it just comes with the nature of those types of screens.
It wasn't mentioned in the video, but there is also a PS1 version that can be burned to a CD, but you have to use the "swap trick" to make it work on an unmodified console. Since the PS1 is my only option, I've tested and it does work just fine!
Hi guys. Just wanted to say I appreciate all of your videos, and I use them extensively to get the most authentic, highest quality experience from my retro setup. Can't wait for your video discussing CRT geometry, as that's what I'm currently struggling with. Cheers!
I've heard of this 240p Test Suite before, it seems to really come in handy to help you configure your display... And you've used music from Super Turrican in the background! Amazing! I LOVE Super Turrican's OST!
Ruko Michiharu Isn't it Sparkster? It was bothering me and I had to try to figure it out. Super Turrican? No. Rocket Knight? No. Popful Mail? No. Sparkster? Yup. Genesis version... I think.
This video was perfect timing (for me), picked up a PS1 from thrift (had Assault Retribution in drive and later found it it was already modded!). Works perfect for this and in it for < $20; Thanks guys!
In the sound test, i've noticed that there is a option: center, left and right channels...you guys should do a video about "sound" on consoles, after finished the video settings! (there is surround on retro consoles? best ways to connect audio on each console, console hardware revisions, crts speakers, pvms, best home theaters and receivers, splitters and switchers interfere?[audio lag], etc). Love you guys!
[Coury] that is something we'll look into. Neither of us are huge audiophiles but I think there are a variety of subjects to get into with it. I'd love to do a video on the Master System FM mod sometime.
I have always been so happy there is a Wii version, just because the Wii is my goto console for testing a TV at a store or Craigslist. - Its small and light, making it easy to move around, no discs or moving parts to worry about breaking, and has cables for all types of connections ( S-video cables are uncommon, but easy to find online and useful to have if you wanna test out older screens like a Commodore 1702 with an S-Video to Dual RCA adapter )
My Life in Gaming - are you guys still planning on doing an episode for adjusting the screen geometry for consumer crts? I can't wait if so! Many of us need some guidance as to how to go about doing this correctly. Thanks love the channel :)
Another Great and accurate video. I have used this test software several times. Long ago only the Genesis version was available . I had no idea it was available for TB16 and CD based consoles. Will check those out soon.
Another awesome video, you two. You never cease to enrich me! I tried getting the Wii version of the suite but unfortunately it doesn't work, all I get is a nasty black screen. Maybe it's the recent version of it, who knows? I guess I will have to wait until I get a CD BURNER (Since mine doesn't work) or an everdrive.
Oh wow, didn't expect you to comment :). Well, I downloaded the zip from the website, copies the stuff from it to the apps folder, went to my homebrew channel and then black screen. I wanted to make sure it wasn't the framemeister's resolution change that is doing it but nope, it went to black regardless if I use it or not.
You are following the correct steps, placing the 240psuite folder inside the apps folder. I'm guessing you get the application icon and meta data? It should work alright, thought it was *might* be a write protect issue in the sd card. Do you end up with an xml file in a folder named 240p suite in the root folder of the sd card? I'm sure I worked on a fail safe for it, but I might have failed to predict your situation.
Sorry, I find make myself clear. I wondered if the wii showed the data on screen before loading. The issue might be using an usb drive, I never expected ir to be ran that way. I'm away right now, but can check it out next week. Thanks for letting me know. Please try running it from the sd card for now.
Anyone know how the menu responds to user-interface specifically? Like running from a DVD player without a remote, would track forward/backward and play/stop be enough?
Mitsubishi CS-40809. It was so well calibrated in the factory, no real adjustments were needed when I used this suite. Perfect geometry corner to corner, grid, etc.. Literally the only adjustment needed was horizontal position, it was at 20, i put it to 17... that's it. The two blue arrows on the Wii menu should touch the edges of the screen, one was cut off ever so slightly, that fixed it. Colors are perfect, linearity is fine, the grid squares all measure up. You can tell they went the extra mile in calibration when they released these monsters. They had to, for a (priced then) $3500 TV. Now if only I could figure out why there's no sound on one of the speakers.. Couldn't say for sure if both speakers worked when I first found this set, I had only played the NES on it for a long time before moving. On arrival, I decided to dust it out (webs, hair, etc), closed up the chassis and went for SNES and other consoles. Found out only 1 speaker worked. Either a wire is the issue (red and white one inside) or something else.. I hate discharging CRTs this big, I'd hate to have to test/replace an actual speaker and hope it's only the wire.
Dang that is pretty sweet. So it is a CRT that cost $3,500 back in the day? I only have a few small CRT's but also a big 32 inch Sony Trinitron that cost about $800 brand new back in 2006, it still looks very good and both speakers work well (though the treble and bass can't do any higher than I want), but with only a little bit of convergence and some slight geometry issues on the far left edge, for a TV I picked up on the curb this past summer (weighing 160 pounds) it is sweet. Someone had it in their garage for a very long time and I almost didn't take it as it sat outside (no rain for a week luckily) for several days before I managed to get help from a co-worker to load it into my car.. where it sat in the trunk for 1-2 months until I could get help hauling it downstairs
4:09 Funny thing is the JVC I'Art AV32 at my grandma's house has over 640 pixels wide in space and displays the whole image, and a lot of CRTs display many of the red squares on the left and right.
I need a little help. I want to see how well my tv treats 240p, so I bought some blank cds for my dreamcast. I downloaded the file that was given on the 240p test suite wiki, and then proceeded to burn the cdi file to my cd. My computer gave me a little error message when it was done, but i checked after and everything seemed to have been burned correctly. I went to my dreamcast and I put my cd in and It went to the music player and was stuck at 00:32 seconds. It wouldn't let me do anything from there, so I went to the main menu and pressed play, but it told me to insert a game disc. I don't want to waste all my cds, so can you guys help me out?
Many peolpe doen't know but in Mexico Artemio Urbina is the most respected person and the maximun VG authority there is podcast or youtube videos were you can fou d more about him.
I have an 80" Sharp LC-80LE642 HDTV, and I'm definitely in the camp where the composite/component inputs have significantly less input lag than my HDMI inputs. Utilizing the manual lag option within the test suite, I was getting around a 30-40ms delay on the analog connections whereas it jumped up to 100+ ms on HDMI. Very strange, as you would think a digital connection would reduce lag as there's no analog-to-digital conversion and/or upscaling. At any rate, my classic consoles are all hooked up via S-Video to a CRT Sony Wega KV-32FS100. There's no input lag there and the picture looks great, except for some moderate horizontal linearity issues. Unfortunately, my model doesn't appear to have an "HLIN" setting (or something similar) in the service menu, so I may not be able to fix this outside of getting another TV.
Great stuff guys - excellent and informative video as always and I'm going to go and burn a copy of this for all my systems and get checking!! I use a CRT for my megadrive,snes,duo and jamma and a Philips HD for everything else so i'll be interested to see the results....
this is great. I'm honestly more concerned about lag than pristine video quality, but only have inexpensive 720p TVs in the house. never noticed lag, so I could use a program like this to double-check before getting a scaler. I'm keeping an eye on HD Retrovision for more YPbPr cables.
I had to look up the game you were referring to, but I think it's just the Genesis version of the composition. The situation of Sparkster on Genesis and the game on SNES being unrelated games that happen to share the same soundtrack is interesting, to say the least.
maybe i'm late, but i get strange results testing my LCD. tested composite video. In shadow test on 240p mode i get normal shadow effect on light BG (face and white BG on picture, river and clouds on green hill BG), but on dark BG shadow is interlaced (hair on pic, sky on green hill BG). I'm a bit confused
Hello, I just bought a 34-inch CRT brand Samsung Tantus CL-34Z7HE is HDTV. I notice immediately that it looks better than a crt SD tv, however the image is not very clean, it is noticeable as noise and the edges of the letters have greenish on one side and red as a chromatic aberration. Do you know if it can be fixed with a service and how much would it cost? I really doubt that's it´s definitive image.
Now do a video on optimizing my Sony Trinitron 32 inch RetroTV with the 240p Test Suite. Also need that episode for the adjusting of geometry for my CRT.
Hi. I need to adjust the geometry of a CRT monitor with VGA adapter that connected to a PC. I don`t have a console like PS1 PS2 etc. Is there a way to run 240p Test Suite without a console?
I've been trying to get the 240p Test Suite working on my Gamecube, but it just won't load. I've got an ntsc Gamecube, I am trying to load the test suite dol using the SD loader software. The gamecube is connected to an LG hdtv with component cables. Nothing happens when I load it using just the SD loader software and when I try it with Swiss it gets stuck loading at 98%. Any advice what I can do or should look for?
I can't get my SNES to display audio or video on my Samsung 1080p HDTV and it is driving me nuts. Tried RF (ch 3 or 4) and AV composite (yellow-red-white). I cleaned pin connectors, games, and replaced my blown fuse with fresh solder. Motherboard is in great shape. When I turn on the SNES, the screen goes from blue to black so I know a signal is being sent, but perhaps the 240 output is too low. Is a Framemeister or CRT TV my only option here?
[Try4ce] Most likely your TV simply does not accept 240p. Do you have another console that also outputs 240p to check? Framemeister is now discontinued and has become pretty expensive as a result. The OSSC or RetroTINK-2X Mini might be your best choices for making progress here. However even though those will convert the signal to a higher resolution your TV may understand (and reduce input lag), it's also very possible your TV just is very intolerant of funny signals, in which case it may still not like what the SNES outputs even after being upscaled. But I feel like there RetroTINK-2X Mini, since it comes with an SNES S-video cable, might be the best next step, unless you can get a CRT TV.
@@mylifeingaming Unfortunately not. My Samsung TV has HDMI, Component RGB/Composite YWR, and Coax options, no S-plug but I’m sure I could find an adapter. Hoping either OSSC, Tink, or Rad2X options will work with basic HDMI input to the TV. I may try for a cheap CRT just to rule it out though.
I gave up on scart a while ago, I got a CRT and s video for my n64 and gamecube. The CRT I found was barely used, I just had to adjust the yoke since the image was tilted, and I had to figure out how to get into the service mode since the overscan cut off much of the screen
[Try4ce] We actually shot a ton of material for this just a few weeks ago with Steve from Retro Tech! ruclips.net/channel/UCwOTvOtoAjiqQx1PCrfmTKw I can't say for sure when the episode will materialize, but it's closer than it's ever been!
Check out this video for some great info on cleaning and calibrating PVMs: ruclips.net/video/yoBqm4ThJxw/видео.html Also, if you're looking to pick up a PVM (who isn't?), try checking with any local doctors or hospital staff you know as they may have decommissioned some. The medical versions are great because they will likely have way fewer hours of use than the ones used for surveillance.
[Try4ce] No, but there are calibration DVDs and Blu-rays you can buy online with test patterns and stuff. The 240p Test Suite is useful for calibrating for video games, and determining that the devices and screens are functioning correctly for specific consoles and game resolutions.
I have a sega Dreamcast but it’s not connected. How should I connect it? My tv doesn’t have svideo. I have an ossc. Should I connect to that or find a way to connect it to the tv without the ossc? I don’t use the Dreamcast usually so I never got connections for it
[Try4ce] I've been using this lately. The 31kHz switch lets you use 480p in compatible games, or switch it off for those that don't. Works great with the OSSC. retro-access.com/collections/scart/products/dreamcast-15khz-31khz-480i-480p-scart-cable
I just noticed your reply but I ended up ordering the Toro because I was watching RetroRGB RUclips channel and it seemed like it worked really well have you done any testing on the Toro?
if I plug only the blue plug of my wii component cable, will this give me a "blue only mode" just so i can calibrate my crt tv saturation with this tool?
@@ArtemioUrbina NOOOOO, my 15 minutes of confidence have been crushed by the man!!! LOL Thanks for all your hard work with programs you give us AU! I don't really follow any forums so I'm in the dark, but is there any chance of a Sega Saturn suite ISO down the road?
You should be careful when using CD-Rs in the Dreamcast. The laser assembly in the console is meant to read GD-ROMs (Gigabyte Disc, a format developed specifically for the Dreamcast as an alternative to DVDs). The laser breaks down when trying to read burned CDs, and your console will eventually be unable to read any discs. I am by no means an expert on the Dreamcast laser assembly, but I would believe that there's a difference between using a CD-R as a boot disc (where it reads it for a couple rotations and then you put a GD-R in) and using a CD-R to run a game or program. The application of using 240p Test Suite sounds like it would read the disc a lot, so if you're planning on making the Dreamcast your platform of choice to run the 240p Test Suite on, I would be careful how often you use it.
From what I understand since its a program made for the mil cd format it would probably be fine. Those issues mainly are from gd rom games being compressed to mil cd and stressing the laser more since the games where never intended to be played though a cd let alone being compressed that much to fit on a cd.
[Try4ce] Not yet, we promised this far too long ago. But early this year we actually had the chance to shoot Steve from the channel Retro Tech working on some CRTs, and that will become the geometry episode sometime!
I can't wait for the future episode on CRT geometry settings. My sony trinitron I use for 240p gaming is a little off. I am currently playing through FF3 (aka ff6) on my snes and the character walk speed makes it extremely noticeable lol. I still consider it better than the HDTV's I own since they handle 240p terribly. You pretty much nailed it with the numbered framing test...I'm getting a large amount of dropped frames lol. Maybe I should invest in the framemeister.
[Try4ce] Maybe I should try fixing my HD Trinitron geometry as part of that episode. I don't use it much anymore, but yeah, 2D games, especially platformers I think, make a ribbon wave as the screen scrolls... I sorta retrained my eye to ignore it when it was my main TV.
+My Life in Gaming That would be incredibly helpful! I am currently in the service menu adjusting some settings, but the definitions of what each setting is doing is a little hard to understand. I'm also debating trying to use a voltage regulating power strip. As a musician I know tubes are greatly affected by the input voltage. You'd be surprised at what a difference 118 vs 125 makes in a guitar amp. I'm willing to bet it affects CRT displays too.
I wonder if anyone has used a colorimeter on just any ole consumer CRT in its respective Service Mode with 240p Test Suite as the image. Seems like it would really bring DIY calibration full circle.
Bro, what is that song at 8:20? Its baller you guys list your theme song but not the other awesome music in this video :( Makes me sad when it isn't in the description. I know this was 8 years ago but pleeease
I got out my old crt and was surprised to see it had component video but the horizontal linearity is terrible. Idk how to fix it but it's very distracting and that's sad considering how great component looks on my tv
Has the CRT Geometry Episode happened yet? I just scored a nice Sony Trinitron Wega that could use some touching up with the geometry and would like to know how to do it safely.
My samsung says 240 by 720p when I did the component black and white test and the sprites blink perfectly when hit. Does this mean i won't need a framemeister?
My Life in Gaming . I was hoping an hd retrovision cable would be enough and didn't need a framemeister but it looks like I'm gonna start saving up for one. Thanks guys. Your channel is awesome.
David C I think the problem is that it’s not something that can be done safely. You could adjust a couple of things in a secret service menu but to get to the real issues you’d probably have to adjust the yoke of the tv and that can be extremely dangerous because it carries enough voltage to kill you. Not to mention a plethora of other things that could have gone wrong over a long period of time that the tv was just sitting there or moved around or dropped. To put it simply there’s probably no safe fixing the geometry of a crt :( I imagine that’s why they don’t release a video because they don’t wanna be held responsible for someone potentially dying because they told them what they could do to get a better picture for an old tech that only knowledgeable technicians could do. Which there don’t seem to be any. A shame really :(
I have a GBA Everdrive X5 and an Action replay and SD Media Launcher for GameCube and GB player. Which would be better to use the 240 test suite on a Commodore 1702?
so if i find a more modern crt (with flat screen) that actually does have an rgb scart port its still likely that ill have to adjust the screen geometry right?
Wait, 720x240? Isn't that twice the resolution of the retro consoles? What does that mean for digital processing on 240p compatible scalers? Is that a bad thing?
+Max Caulfield [Try4ce] 240 is the vertical resolution. The 720 thing is a bit harder to explain, but basically the horizontal resolution is scaleable. 720 is multiplied by 0.9 to shrink to a 4:3 aspect... or multiplied by 1.2 to fill a 16:9 aspect. Modern video uses square pixels, but back in the day, it was all about horizontal stretching to give the proper proportion. 720 without stretching would never result in a correct aspect ratio by itself. It is always intended to be squished or stretched by the display (which scalers would also do). Even though the internal resolution of the system may be something like 320x240, the output conforms to a standard that's 720 wide (but still only 240 tall). This isn't my strongest subject, but hopefully that explains it well enough!
The framemeister creates a noisy color signal on dark blue patterns. Emulator image is superior and 100% clean. It's got tons of other neat features from filters to quicksave. On my 1ms monitor I barely notice any lag at all. Literally the only thing that's better with the framemeister is 100% smooth scrolling which is neat but not neccessary and the SNES accuracy emulator is pretty damn well optimized now. I own the framemeister and I have a few consoles that I modded myself so I know what I'm talking about. If you own a 1ms monitor and have a fast processor - go with emulation all the way. I just like to own these consoles to have an option. Retroarch rules. It's just funny to read how anal people get about the framemeister when nothing you do can compare to a clean emulator image anyways. This is a fact! BUT...I also enjoy the smooth image scrolling that my original consoles gives me. It's nice to have options.
First, I agree with all of this. Second, I have a 720p native sony lcd tv and there's definately lag. It's not much and I haven't tested it but with all filters and functions off and game mode on there's still a few frames of lag. I play on my 1ms pc monitor though so ...I keep the tv for my wii-u.
I sure could use that upcoming episode for adjusting the geometry of my CRT.
2020 and it's still "upcoming" :-(
It's not out yet? That's why I can't find it :(
I went looking for the same thing. 5 years later...
They said they're going to release a master plan on how to craft your own CRT from scratch using modern techniques.
It's a bit of a process, so the wait will be worth it.
@@jorybeatty1726 Holy cow, that sounds like a painstakingly colossal and brilliant undertaking at the same time.
5:40 It's been four years since this video came out. When do you plan on doing the geometry video?
[ Coury ] I'm not sure when it'll happen. I highly recommend the YT channel Retro Tech for tons of CRT and PVM videos that cover the subject pretty thoroughly.
FYI - ruclips.net/channel/UCwOTvOtoAjiqQx1PCrfmTKw
For example, ruclips.net/video/xAbqucrWHjU/видео.html
I'm personnaly not sure I want to mess THAT much with my CRT TV 😅
@@mylifeingaming it is now 2024 man. Still holding out here
Gosh. Where was My Life in Gaming 16 years ago when I was first teaching myself about this sort of thing?
I want to hug you guys. You are making the world a better place!
In Artemio we trust.
Seriously the best retro focused channel on youtube. So greatly appreciated all your hard work and amazing content.
This is really great! I used it through my super everdrive to help fix some geometry issues with one of my trinitrons. For those who don't know there is a secret service menu you can access on Sony Trinitrons. Have the TV turned off then QUICKLY press "Display" - "5" - "Volume +" then power on.
Do you know how to fix red bleeding using that service menu on the Trinitrons?
IMO, the Drop Shadow test is the most important tool for identifying how well your TV/scaler handles 240p-specific effects, so kudos for demonstrating how it's supposed to look on one setup and how it fails on another.
Sixfortyfive yes, they were very careful to show real use cases while talking about them. Awesome.
I always end up coming back to JunkerHQ. It was one of those sites that let me know when great fan translations would be released
=)
Another great video guys. Btw Linearity test is also very useful on HDTVs and scalers. You can use it to check that the circles are perfectly round (use a tape measure if necessary). Quite often HDTVs squash the Dreamcasts picture in particular and adding a bit of horizontal zoom is necessary for the perfect picture.
You guys make such great content! Looking forward to that geometry episode, as it's something I got issues with currently.
Riverhill [Coury] We'll go deeper into it in the CRT, PVM, etc. episode. Like I said to someone else below:
The way to adjust this is using the service menu, which is a hidden menu in the TV. Each make has a different way of accessing it. Its a very, very touchy thing though, since you can mess up your TV with it. Its meant for professional repair people.
If you do decide to look into this and figure out how to access it, make sure you take note of the values of every entry before you start to tweak, so you can start over if you want. Its very possible to make it worse then not be able to get back to where you started, since there is no factory resets on consumer TVs.
Its worth noting though, as the size of the CRT gets bigger, it gets more and more difficult to get it right. Sometimes impossible. My 27 inch Toshiba flat CRT is what I showed to demonstrate it in this video and thats after tons of tweaking.
Its one of those things that once you notice it, you'll always notice it, even if its minor. Hard to believe that this issue has always been there, but its been practically invisible to our eyes until we spent a bunch of time on a HDTV. Going back you're like "wait, has it always been like this?" Answer: yes.
***** Started to note the difference after getting a 27 inch Sony flat, especially on scrolling backgrounds. It is definitely something that's hard not to pay attention to once you notice it. Guess I'm in for a day of meticulous tweaking once I find the service menu option from a service manual. Thanks for the tips!
Riverhill Just a heads up, you can dramatically improve your CRT's geometry through the service menu HOWEVER it is very very annoying to fix. I am in the process of doing it right now and almost ready to give up. You fix one thing, then you mess up another. I guess it just comes with the nature of those types of screens.
My Life in Gaming Hey Guys ! Any news on the geometry ajustement episode ? I did tried to adjust one on a Sony and no luck couldn't fix it all
It wasn't mentioned in the video, but there is also a PS1 version that can be burned to a CD, but you have to use the "swap trick" to make it work on an unmodified console. Since the PS1 is my only option, I've tested and it does work just fine!
Hi guys. Just wanted to say I appreciate all of your videos, and I use them extensively to get the most authentic, highest quality experience from my retro setup. Can't wait for your video discussing CRT geometry, as that's what I'm currently struggling with. Cheers!
Conratulations to Artemio Urbina...
I've heard of this 240p Test Suite before, it seems to really come in handy to help you configure your display...
And you've used music from Super Turrican in the background! Amazing! I LOVE Super Turrican's OST!
Ruko Michiharu Isn't it Sparkster? It was bothering me and I had to try to figure it out. Super Turrican? No. Rocket Knight? No. Popful Mail? No. Sparkster? Yup. Genesis version... I think.
LaC64 [Coury] I used a Super Turrican track for the grid and scroll test segment and Sparkster for the drop shadow and lag segment.
***** ahhhaaa
Es una maravilla que esto exista, gracias Artemio.
This video was perfect timing (for me), picked up a PS1 from thrift (had Assault Retribution in drive and later found it it was already modded!). Works perfect for this and in it for < $20; Thanks guys!
In the sound test, i've noticed that there is a option: center, left and right channels...you guys should do a video about "sound" on consoles, after finished the video settings! (there is surround on retro consoles? best ways to connect audio on each console, console hardware revisions, crts speakers, pvms, best home theaters and receivers, splitters and switchers interfere?[audio lag], etc). Love you guys!
[Coury] that is something we'll look into. Neither of us are huge audiophiles but I think there are a variety of subjects to get into with it. I'd love to do a video on the Master System FM mod sometime.
Thanks! Looking forward to that geometry episode!
I have always been so happy there is a Wii version, just because the Wii is my goto console for testing a TV at a store or Craigslist.
- Its small and light, making it easy to move around, no discs or moving parts to worry about breaking, and has cables for all types of connections ( S-video cables are uncommon, but easy to find online and useful to have if you wanna test out older screens like a Commodore 1702 with an S-Video to Dual RCA adapter )
Awesome, you guys rock! I had no idea this program even existed!?
These RGB videos are awesome THANK YOU
Un placer colaborar con ustedes chicos.
These guy's theme song never gets old to me.
1:14 What a beautiful man
My Life in Gaming - are you guys still planning on doing an episode for adjusting the screen geometry for consumer crts? I can't wait if so! Many of us need some guidance as to how to go about doing this correctly. Thanks love the channel :)
KEEVS plz answer mlig
Another Great and accurate video. I have used this test software several times. Long ago only the Genesis version was available . I had no idea it was available for TB16 and CD based consoles. Will check those out soon.
Another awesome video, you two. You never cease to enrich me! I tried getting the Wii version of the suite but unfortunately it doesn't work, all I get is a nasty black screen. Maybe it's the recent version of it, who knows? I guess I will have to wait until I get a CD BURNER (Since mine doesn't work) or an everdrive.
The latest Verdon has been on the site for over a year, so it should work alright.
What is the procedure you are following to install it?
Oh wow, didn't expect you to comment :).
Well, I downloaded the zip from the website, copies the stuff from it to the apps folder, went to my homebrew channel and then black screen. I wanted to make sure it wasn't the framemeister's resolution change that is doing it but nope, it went to black regardless if I use it or not.
You are following the correct steps, placing the 240psuite folder inside the apps folder.
I'm guessing you get the application icon and meta data? It should work alright, thought it was *might* be a write protect issue in the sd card.
Do you end up with an xml file in a folder named 240p suite in the root folder of the sd card?
I'm sure I worked on a fail safe for it, but I might have failed to predict your situation.
I am actually using a USB to load it, but I can try it with the SD card. I did copy the meta too, though
Sorry, I find make myself clear. I wondered if the wii showed the data on screen before loading.
The issue might be using an usb drive, I never expected ir to be ran that way. I'm away right now, but can check it out next week. Thanks for letting me know.
Please try running it from the sd card for now.
I went down the rabbit hole with retro gaming, that's how I got here.
Artemio es nuetro pastor. Nada nos faltara
What a well done video. I've seen a few of mlig vids before. but this closed the deal. You are now about to recieve the honor of lubbnetobbs sub.
Anyone know how the menu responds to user-interface specifically? Like running from a DVD player without a remote, would track forward/backward and play/stop be enough?
still waiting for the adjusting geometry video
Mitsubishi CS-40809. It was so well calibrated in the factory, no real adjustments were needed when I used this suite. Perfect geometry corner to corner, grid, etc.. Literally the only adjustment needed was horizontal position, it was at 20, i put it to 17... that's it. The two blue arrows on the Wii menu should touch the edges of the screen, one was cut off ever so slightly, that fixed it. Colors are perfect, linearity is fine, the grid squares all measure up. You can tell they went the extra mile in calibration when they released these monsters. They had to, for a (priced then) $3500 TV. Now if only I could figure out why there's no sound on one of the speakers.. Couldn't say for sure if both speakers worked when I first found this set, I had only played the NES on it for a long time before moving. On arrival, I decided to dust it out (webs, hair, etc), closed up the chassis and went for SNES and other consoles. Found out only 1 speaker worked. Either a wire is the issue (red and white one inside) or something else.. I hate discharging CRTs this big, I'd hate to have to test/replace an actual speaker and hope it's only the wire.
Dang that is pretty sweet. So it is a CRT that cost $3,500 back in the day? I only have a few small CRT's but also a big 32 inch Sony Trinitron that cost about $800 brand new back in 2006, it still looks very good and both speakers work well (though the treble and bass can't do any higher than I want), but with only a little bit of convergence and some slight geometry issues on the far left edge, for a TV I picked up on the curb this past summer (weighing 160 pounds) it is sweet. Someone had it in their garage for a very long time and I almost didn't take it as it sat outside (no rain for a week luckily) for several days before I managed to get help from a co-worker to load it into my car.. where it sat in the trunk for 1-2 months until I could get help hauling it downstairs
4:09 Funny thing is the JVC I'Art AV32 at my grandma's house has over 640 pixels wide in space and displays the whole image, and a lot of CRTs display many of the red squares on the left and right.
Where can I find that arrange version of "Turrican III - Second floor" from minute 3:00 ?
the background song @ 4:25 made me think of the chorus to cheap trick's surrender
I need a little help. I want to see how well my tv treats 240p, so I bought some blank cds for my dreamcast. I downloaded the file that was given on the 240p test suite wiki, and then proceeded to burn the cdi file to my cd. My computer gave me a little error message when it was done, but i checked after and everything seemed to have been burned correctly. I went to my dreamcast and I put my cd in and It went to the music player and was stuck at 00:32 seconds. It wouldn't let me do anything from there, so I went to the main menu and pressed play, but it told me to insert a game disc. I don't want to waste all my cds, so can you guys help me out?
Most probably the CVd wasn't burned properly. What software did you use to burn it?
Thats probably the issue- I just dragged and dropped the file onto the cd, I'm guessing thats not right...
0 ͜ʖ0 indeed, that is not right. the readme details the process
Does somebody know how to run this test suite on a ps2?
always a great video!
Many peolpe doen't know but in Mexico Artemio Urbina is the most respected person and the maximun VG authority there is podcast or youtube videos were you can fou d more about him.
I have an 80" Sharp LC-80LE642 HDTV, and I'm definitely in the camp where the composite/component inputs have significantly less input lag than my HDMI inputs. Utilizing the manual lag option within the test suite, I was getting around a 30-40ms delay on the analog connections whereas it jumped up to 100+ ms on HDMI. Very strange, as you would think a digital connection would reduce lag as there's no analog-to-digital conversion and/or upscaling.
At any rate, my classic consoles are all hooked up via S-Video to a CRT Sony Wega KV-32FS100. There's no input lag there and the picture looks great, except for some moderate horizontal linearity issues. Unfortunately, my model doesn't appear to have an "HLIN" setting (or something similar) in the service menu, so I may not be able to fix this outside of getting another TV.
I finally got a CRT I’m happy with and this test suite was one of the first things I ran on it. It did great, except some geometry I need to fix.
Great stuff guys - excellent and informative video as always and I'm going to go and burn a copy of this for all my systems and get checking!! I use a CRT for my megadrive,snes,duo and jamma and a Philips HD for everything else so i'll be interested to see the results....
Is 5:30 an example of how it should look like or how it shouldn't look like? Just want to be sure.
this is great. I'm honestly more concerned about lag than pristine video quality, but only have inexpensive 720p TVs in the house. never noticed lag, so I could use a program like this to double-check before getting a scaler. I'm keeping an eye on HD Retrovision for more YPbPr cables.
Thank you :) I saw another youtuber demonstrate the Framemeister with this and i wondered what program he used. Now i know ^^,
6:00; can I get a link to that incredibly rendition of the Sparkster Lakeside Theme that you are playing in the background? It’s really good!
I had to look up the game you were referring to, but I think it's just the Genesis version of the composition. The situation of Sparkster on Genesis and the game on SNES being unrelated games that happen to share the same soundtrack is interesting, to say the least.
could you please add cc or subtitles? its not available at this moment. thanks when you do
maybe i'm late, but i get strange results testing my LCD. tested composite video. In shadow test on 240p mode i get normal shadow effect on light BG (face and white BG on picture, river and clouds on green hill BG), but on dark BG shadow is interlaced (hair on pic, sky on green hill BG). I'm a bit confused
Hello, I just bought a 34-inch CRT brand Samsung Tantus CL-34Z7HE is HDTV. I notice immediately that it looks better than a crt SD tv, however the image is not very clean, it is noticeable as noise and the edges of the letters have greenish on one side and red as a chromatic aberration. Do you know if it can be fixed with a service and how much would it cost?
I really doubt that's it´s definitive image.
Now do a video on optimizing my Sony Trinitron 32 inch RetroTV with the 240p Test Suite. Also need that episode for the adjusting of geometry for my CRT.
Hi. I need to adjust the geometry of a CRT monitor with VGA adapter that connected to a PC. I don`t have a console like PS1 PS2 etc.
Is there a way to run 240p Test Suite without a console?
I've been trying to get the 240p Test Suite working on my Gamecube, but it just won't load.
I've got an ntsc Gamecube, I am trying to load the test suite dol using the SD loader software.
The gamecube is connected to an LG hdtv with component cables.
Nothing happens when I load it using just the SD loader software and when I try it with Swiss it gets stuck loading at 98%.
Any advice what I can do or should look for?
Okay, I found out that this seems to be an issue with version 1.9 of the test suite. I tried version 1.8, and that one seems to work.
What "upcoming episode" talks about adjusting TV geometry?
Great video! Is the CRT Geometry video still something that will come out in the future or is that no longer planned?
How do I go to the service menu on a sylvanian SRT2420p?
The problem I have is my HDTV having too high brightness levels that can't be controlled with my remote. I need to find out why that's happening.
Thank you, this is really helpful! ^_^
I can't get my SNES to display audio or video on my Samsung 1080p HDTV and it is driving me nuts. Tried RF (ch 3 or 4) and AV composite (yellow-red-white). I cleaned pin connectors, games, and replaced my blown fuse with fresh solder. Motherboard is in great shape. When I turn on the SNES, the screen goes from blue to black so I know a signal is being sent, but perhaps the 240 output is too low. Is a Framemeister or CRT TV my only option here?
[Try4ce] Most likely your TV simply does not accept 240p. Do you have another console that also outputs 240p to check? Framemeister is now discontinued and has become pretty expensive as a result. The OSSC or RetroTINK-2X Mini might be your best choices for making progress here. However even though those will convert the signal to a higher resolution your TV may understand (and reduce input lag), it's also very possible your TV just is very intolerant of funny signals, in which case it may still not like what the SNES outputs even after being upscaled. But I feel like there RetroTINK-2X Mini, since it comes with an SNES S-video cable, might be the best next step, unless you can get a CRT TV.
@@mylifeingaming Unfortunately not. My Samsung TV has HDMI, Component RGB/Composite YWR, and Coax options, no S-plug but I’m sure I could find an adapter. Hoping either OSSC, Tink, or Rad2X options will work with basic HDMI input to the TV. I may try for a cheap CRT just to rule it out though.
The 240p Test Suite hasn't been ported to 3DO yet so I put together a simple version of one... for basic CRT and upscaler calibration
I gave up on scart a while ago, I got a CRT and s video for my n64 and gamecube. The CRT I found was barely used, I just had to adjust the yoke since the image was tilted, and I had to figure out how to get into the service mode since the overscan cut off much of the screen
Desperately looking forward to the geometry adjustment episode! 😢
[Try4ce] We actually shot a ton of material for this just a few weeks ago with Steve from Retro Tech! ruclips.net/channel/UCwOTvOtoAjiqQx1PCrfmTKw I can't say for sure when the episode will materialize, but it's closer than it's ever been!
It’s unknown when that episode will come out.
Check out this video for some great info on cleaning and calibrating PVMs: ruclips.net/video/yoBqm4ThJxw/видео.html
Also, if you're looking to pick up a PVM (who isn't?), try checking with any local doctors or hospital staff you know as they may have decommissioned some. The medical versions are great because they will likely have way fewer hours of use than the ones used for surveillance.
Is there a DVD player version where we can simply burn the image of this in a CD and work in a DVD player?
[Try4ce] No, but there are calibration DVDs and Blu-rays you can buy online with test patterns and stuff. The 240p Test Suite is useful for calibrating for video games, and determining that the devices and screens are functioning correctly for specific consoles and game resolutions.
I have a sega Dreamcast but it’s not connected. How should I connect it? My tv doesn’t have svideo. I have an ossc. Should I connect to that or find a way to connect it to the tv without the ossc? I don’t use the Dreamcast usually so I never got connections for it
[Try4ce] I've been using this lately. The 31kHz switch lets you use 480p in compatible games, or switch it off for those that don't. Works great with the OSSC. retro-access.com/collections/scart/products/dreamcast-15khz-31khz-480i-480p-scart-cable
I just noticed your reply but I ended up ordering the Toro because I was watching RetroRGB RUclips channel and it seemed like it worked really well have you done any testing on the Toro?
if I plug only the blue plug of my wii component cable, will this give me a "blue only mode" just so i can calibrate my crt tv saturation with this tool?
Alright, Urbina told me "I have EXCELLENT reflexes" after I ran my manual lag test on my 1chip RGB Snes! Plus, OSSC is amazing!
keep in mind that is not a reliable lag test =)
@@ArtemioUrbina NOOOOO, my 15 minutes of confidence have been crushed by the man!!! LOL Thanks for all your hard work with programs you give us AU! I don't really follow any forums so I'm in the dark, but is there any chance of a Sega Saturn suite ISO down the road?
it's not available for Sega Saturn
You should be careful when using CD-Rs in the Dreamcast. The laser assembly in the console is meant to read GD-ROMs (Gigabyte Disc, a format developed specifically for the Dreamcast as an alternative to DVDs). The laser breaks down when trying to read burned CDs, and your console will eventually be unable to read any discs. I am by no means an expert on the Dreamcast laser assembly, but I would believe that there's a difference between using a CD-R as a boot disc (where it reads it for a couple rotations and then you put a GD-R in) and using a CD-R to run a game or program. The application of using 240p Test Suite sounds like it would read the disc a lot, so if you're planning on making the Dreamcast your platform of choice to run the 240p Test Suite on, I would be careful how often you use it.
From what I understand since its a program made for the mil cd format it would probably be fine. Those issues mainly are from gd rom games being compressed to mil cd and stressing the laser more since the games where never intended to be played though a cd let alone being compressed that much to fit on a cd.
Was there ever a video about about TV/CRT geometry adjustments? I can't seem to find it, and I don't think it was covered in the CRT/PVM episode...
[Try4ce] Not yet, we promised this far too long ago. But early this year we actually had the chance to shoot Steve from the channel Retro Tech working on some CRTs, and that will become the geometry episode sometime!
Is there a Sega Saturn equivalent of the 240p Test Suite? They have it for every system but the Saturn.
Artemio me trajo aqui, desde el Score #100
Artemio u r the bestt!!! ahuevo!!
I can't wait for the future episode on CRT geometry settings. My sony trinitron I use for 240p gaming is a little off. I am currently playing through FF3 (aka ff6) on my snes and the character walk speed makes it extremely noticeable lol. I still consider it better than the HDTV's I own since they handle 240p terribly. You pretty much nailed it with the numbered framing test...I'm getting a large amount of dropped frames lol. Maybe I should invest in the framemeister.
[Try4ce] Maybe I should try fixing my HD Trinitron geometry as part of that episode. I don't use it much anymore, but yeah, 2D games, especially platformers I think, make a ribbon wave as the screen scrolls... I sorta retrained my eye to ignore it when it was my main TV.
+My Life in Gaming That would be incredibly helpful! I am currently in the service menu adjusting some settings, but the definitions of what each setting is doing is a little hard to understand. I'm also debating trying to use a voltage regulating power strip. As a musician I know tubes are greatly affected by the input voltage. You'd be surprised at what a difference 118 vs 125 makes in a guitar amp. I'm willing to bet it affects CRT displays too.
I wonder if anyone has used a colorimeter on just any ole consumer CRT in its respective Service Mode with 240p Test Suite as the image. Seems like it would really bring DIY calibration full circle.
Indeed, with the HCFR software and patterns within the suite
Bro, what is that song at 8:20? Its baller
you guys list your theme song but not the other awesome music in this video :( Makes me sad when it isn't in the description. I know this was 8 years ago but pleeease
[Try4ce] Watch a few seconds longer and the game music gets credited too! It's from Sparkster (a.k.a Rocket Knight Adventures 2, Genesis version).
I got out my old crt and was surprised to see it had component video but the horizontal linearity is terrible. Idk how to fix it but it's very distracting and that's sad considering how great component looks on my tv
Has the CRT Geometry Episode happened yet? I just scored a nice Sony Trinitron Wega that could use some touching up with the geometry and would like to know how to do it safely.
can't I or isn't there an option to plug the program into my USB plugged in and then run my game system?
My samsung says 240 by 720p when I did the component black and white test and the sprites blink perfectly when hit. Does this mean i won't need a framemeister?
+Kevinb1821 [Try4ce] A scaler should still give you a better picture, but it sounds like your TV doesn't do as bad of a job as many others do.
My Life in Gaming . I was hoping an hd retrovision cable would be enough and didn't need a framemeister but it looks like I'm gonna start saving up for one. Thanks guys. Your channel is awesome.
great videos. how do you capture the crt output? a camera aimed at the screen? if so, any special lens?
Is there a way to test it with Sega Saturn at all? I’m using component wires to my console ... North American model 2
¡Venga Artemio!, muchas felicidades, viva México.
Does it cost £2.40?
Can I perform these test on a DVD player also?
song at 8:20? sounds so familiar
since there's no ps1 or ps2 version, would this still be accurate to setup my crt if i use it with a genesis emulator running on my ps2?
[Try4ce] I'm not sure how the levels compare between Genesis and PS1/PS2, but it's probably a good starting point at least.
i tried both the genesis and snes versions using this method. snes was indeed quite helpful, genesis lacked precision.
Thanks I'm gonna test it on my psone
You guys still planning to do that episode on safely adjusting CRT geometry?
David C I think the problem is that it’s not something that can be done safely. You could adjust a couple of things in a secret service menu but to get to the real issues you’d probably have to adjust the yoke of the tv and that can be extremely dangerous because it carries enough voltage to kill you. Not to mention a plethora of other things that could have gone wrong over a long period of time that the tv was just sitting there or moved around or dropped. To put it simply there’s probably no safe fixing the geometry of a crt :( I imagine that’s why they don’t release a video because they don’t wanna be held responsible for someone potentially dying because they told them what they could do to get a better picture for an old tech that only knowledgeable technicians could do. Which there don’t seem to be any. A shame really :(
I have a GBA Everdrive X5 and an Action replay and SD Media Launcher for GameCube and GB player. Which would be better to use the 240 test suite on a Commodore 1702?
The Gamecube
Super. Thanks
Please talk about SONY PVMs when you do the geometry video. I have a pvm-20L5 and I started messing with the geometry/color, but I still need help!
so if i find a more modern crt (with flat screen) that actually does have an rgb scart port its still likely that ill have to adjust the screen geometry right?
Wait, 720x240? Isn't that twice the resolution of the retro consoles? What does that mean for digital processing on 240p compatible scalers? Is that a bad thing?
+Max Caulfield [Try4ce] 240 is the vertical resolution. The 720 thing is a bit harder to explain, but basically the horizontal resolution is scaleable. 720 is multiplied by 0.9 to shrink to a 4:3 aspect... or multiplied by 1.2 to fill a 16:9 aspect. Modern video uses square pixels, but back in the day, it was all about horizontal stretching to give the proper proportion. 720 without stretching would never result in a correct aspect ratio by itself. It is always intended to be squished or stretched by the display (which scalers would also do). Even though the internal resolution of the system may be something like 320x240, the output conforms to a standard that's 720 wide (but still only 240 tall). This isn't my strongest subject, but hopefully that explains it well enough!
The framemeister creates a noisy color signal on dark blue patterns. Emulator image is superior and 100% clean. It's got tons of other neat features from filters to quicksave. On my 1ms monitor I barely notice any lag at all. Literally the only thing that's better with the framemeister is 100% smooth scrolling which is neat but not neccessary and the SNES accuracy emulator is pretty damn well optimized now. I own the framemeister and I have a few consoles that I modded myself so I know what I'm talking about. If you own a 1ms monitor and have a fast processor - go with emulation all the way. I just like to own these consoles to have an option. Retroarch rules. It's just funny to read how anal people get about the framemeister when nothing you do can compare to a clean emulator image anyways. This is a fact! BUT...I also enjoy the smooth image scrolling that my original consoles gives me. It's nice to have options.
First, I agree with all of this. Second, I have a 720p native sony lcd tv and there's definately lag. It's not much and I haven't tested it but with all filters and functions off and game mode on there's still a few frames of lag. I play on my 1ms pc monitor though so ...I keep the tv for my wii-u.
www.sony.co.uk/support/en/product/kdl-32d3000 this is mine
Es Artemio el de score?
+Jonathan Treviño Yep
Dios Artemio, no seas igualado!
Great work guys, as always. Any update on the geometry vid? Can you include how to adjust it on some popular Sony PVM CRTs/
Does that Gamecube have a replacement top shell? Is it one of those shells designed to allow the use of full size DVD-Rs?
[Try4ce] Nah Coury just has a custom paint job on it.
+My Life in Gaming oh, nice!