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The Worst Scaler In Retro Gaming
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2019
- This video is meant to educate people on the reasons you'll want to avoid using scalers designed for TV signals for video games. It's also a warning against those awful companies that use those chips on purpose and sell them in cables "designed for video games". Please help spread this information and stop both the (accidental) misuse of TV scalers...and hopefully stop companies from making this junk in the future!
If you like this video, please consider signing up as a supporter, or leaving a "tip": www.retrorgb.com/support.html
More info: www.retrorgb.com/why-you-shoul...
Good Scalers: www.retrorgb.com/upscalers.html
Follow-up lag testing video: • Lag Testing Retro Scalers
Most equipment used to shoot this video can be found here: www.amazon.com/shop/retrorgb
As a note, Phonedork has been warning us about these scalers for YEARS. The info in this video is nothing new, it's just the latest in many videos made to demonstrate how important it is to use good scalers. Check out Phonedork's perfectly articulated example of bad scalers here at 16:40: • NEC XM29 Plus Review f...
A polite reminder: Every measurement taken can be verified by anyone who feels the need, simply by following the same procedures. Using the 240p Test Suite's MANUAL lag test is NOT a measurement though - That's basically a test of your reflexes. Also, listing a bunch of claims without measurements is just spreading misinformation; This video is a culmination of RESEARCH and the opinions I state are based off hard measurements, not guesses.
Bob it's funny that you say that this video ins't going t be some elitist perspective. If anything Adam Koralik is the biggest Elitist in the retro gaming community.
I like how much effort you put in to nailing down the facts and making sure you're not guessing or going with your gut. I've found people who either have one of these, or who don't want to buy something expensive will say it isn't laggy for them or that lag doesn't matter. Now nearly a year later when you've hammered the point home with the lag test roundup do you feel you've won the argument or is there still lots of push back?
I was using that scart to hdmi box with a Trinitron Sony CRT via its hdmi port and it worked great. Maybe it's performance is better with hdmi CRTs. Im aware that most people don't have that option since it's rare to find a CRT with hdmi.
@@ericko777 yeah, wouldn’t mind seeing a video on that.
If there is anything to get mad about in this video, it's learning that eBay sellers are destroying retro consoles and stuffing them with garbage.
Rex Buyeo Oh god what!? I haven’t seen the video yet but I can imagine, and that sounds horrific.
*EDIT:* I was right. Dear god, who would ever do that!?
I know, it's a heinous crime. If you ever go to an anime convention, stay away from the artist alley. Some people like to sell consoles as art pieces. Some are good, most are cancer inducing.
Ebay used to be better than amazon, cheaper and to the point. What the fu *ck happened?
@@Jucelegario what happened ?! people are greedy and basically dont give a fk . i was a power seller at one time this 30 day return bullshit from ebay is a joke im not walmart i hate ebay they are the worst .. cheers man
And Aliexpress as well
I've always been a "why buy crap before getting the good thing? I'm just making my overall purchase more expensive" kind of guy. If I can't afford what I actually need then I wait instead of wasting money on crap.
Agreed, or just try and find a CRT for free to hold you off. I like free. Free is something we all can afford :)
I agree so much! I just stuck with my old childhood CRT using RGB SCART cables until I could afford a Trinitron, and now I’ve added a SCART switcher too, and I’ve got practically the perfect retro setup now.
Same. In general, my experience has been that you get what you pay for.
@@justanotheryoutubechannel Which SCART switcher u're using please?
TheXheretic728 A Bandridge brand switcher, I’ve forgotten exactly which model. My Life in Gaming did a video on switchers as it is the first Bandridge model they mentioned. It’s really good!
It's fascinating that Pound and Hyperkin are using the same generic devices as the no-names. Really tarnishes the brand...
I won't say this is what ruined hyperkin brand. They have been pushing supar products for a good while now. I bought a N64 power supply from them that almost cought fire. Turns out the didn't solder anything inside the power supply, Just super glued it.
What "brand?" It essentially launched the "brand" for #Pound, LevelHike, Xtreme, etc. It's not the association that tarnishes them, it's the performance... just like it was for the old scaler boxes.
@@doomisforu "caught". Also I highly doubt they didn't solder anything, because that would make it extremely difficult for a power supply to function at all.
@@rars0n it didn't function, the minute I plugged it in and turned on my n64 it started to burn.
@@doomisforu What you're describing is a short to ground. Superglue has nothing to do with that.
What you are also failing to comprehend, which was implied in my previous comment, is how superglue would likely fail to adequately connect the individual components to the circuit board. In your theoretical superglued power supply, it might have arced but barely at all and certainly wouldn't have caused much smoke. But far more likely is that it wouldn't have worked at all, since there's a high chance that one component along the line is making zero electrical connection and is therefore open. Shorts are caused by electrical connections to ground, which superglue is completely incapable of producing.
You're also ignoring the fact that soldering is cheap and the company would gain absolutely nothing by cranking out a bunch of non-working power supplies instead of just doing shoddy solder work that would actually make them work.
All of this to say, and to reiterate thanks to your reply above, that you have no idea how electronic circuit boards work, and are therefore an unreliable narrator.
In some of the Facebook groups about retro gaming I frequent, people are always recommending those crappy "SCART to HDMI"-boxes. I always try and tell them to not waste their money, but they seldom listen.
Well, now you can link them to this video and let them harass me instead of you :)
@@RetroRGB I just linked it in one of those threads ;)
I know you don't get as much viewership as you should, but figured i'd add that i've learned a lot from both your site and this channel in the many years I've collected. Almost all my console mods, equipment and such that now hooks up about 40 devices at once came from learning on your site and it's much appreciated!
Thank you!
Who could be angered by a good faith effort to inform consumers?
I mean, except people who profit from misinformation and people who prefer to believe lies...
There are always people out there who have a problem with someone speaking about a subject in an authoritative manner. It goes hand in hand with the modern anti-science/proud to be stupid culture that's unfortunately continuing to gain traction. Basically, there are people out there who have a serious problem with anything or anyone that comes across as (or is) an authority figure. These people immediately have a "you can't tell me what to do, dad!" reaction when they're told how to properly do something.
This is the best explanation of display lag I have ever seen. I love the high speed camera footage that shows the frames being drawn, excellent job Bob!
This is a great video, dude. Hopefully it helps educate people.
Great work Bob. Scientific process and evidence always beat opinion. Videos like this should be the gold standard for equipment reviews.
As a question, When using an HDTV, how do we know when it's the cable that's causing the lag, rather than the television itself?
You'd have to test each HDMI upscaler individually. Which is what I'm here for :)
EVEN LARRY HAS TO ASK QUESTIONS?!
@@SolidSonicTH He's hunting for facts. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Hey Bob. You are putting out some really good and helpful videos lately. Thank You from the bottom of my heart.
No, thank YOU!
Another fantastic video, packed with great info for both those new to the community but also those that have been around for awhile. Nice work!
Thank you, Bob. We've needed an authoritative video on this for a long time. As it was, people wouldn't even believe me when I tell them that the cables and the boxes were the exact same things with the exact same problems. Way too many people thought the Hyperkin, Pound, LevelHike, Xtreme, etc cables were some kind of solution, even excitedly modding them to support other consoles (obviously thinking they were getting something better than the [analog]2HDMI boxes). The defensive arguments have been truly ridiculous. There's even a local who is supposed to come see me in person expecting to prove me wrong about his modded Hyperkin cables. :)
About the only thing I would change about this video is the part where it says these scalers were made for VCRs and stuff as opposed to videogames. They were actually made to be the support electronics inside a TV which digitize analog sources and connect to the LCD panel. That's why some have a HUD showing the input signal, an aspect ratio switch, etc. It's also why they have all the same problems with 240p as any other generic HDTV with analog inputs (proper 240p processing seems to be reserved for the scalers manufacturers use in their own sets instead of shopping around to other manufacturers... Sony, Samsung, etc won't share). These generic scalers literally just took the digitized output of a TV's internal scaler, intended to go to a panel, and routed it through an HDMI transmitter instead. It's decidedly worse than getting a digital TV with analog inputs because at least there's a chance it will support 240p and even if it doesn't the external scaler will double the latency. Boo!
Got to be honest, I've just recently got into the retro gaming scene and have become a PS2 collector. I fell for all this, started off buying these cheap, crappy scalers before finally realising I would have been better off investing that money elsewhere.
If only I had come across your videos prior to that, would have saved me a few quid :)
Great video, thanks
Wow, not only a fantastic breakdown with side-by-side comparisons but also a great message at the end about treating each other in the retro game communities. You, my man, have received my permanent sub (for whatever that’s worth!)
Thanks very much!
I am really grateful to you, Bob, for making these sorts of videos. They are very informative, and I genuinely look forward to watching each and every one of them. They seriously brighten up my day. It’s amazing to have someone who knows their tech making videos to aid those of us who don’t have a proper grasp of it. Keep up the good work, man!
Thank you!
Informative video, as always. I love that you took the time to point out a few scenarios where the cheapo scaler might be a good fit.
The lag on this HD Video Converter is insane. I bought it 5 years ago. It drives me nuts.
I got 2 frames of lag trying to watch this video.
You're clearly not using the right adapter ;p
As a teddy cameo in this video once said "What a shit load of fuck!".
Just saw this. My dude fired shots from the get go
Came for the scaler video info, immediately got distracted by the Rust in Peace guitar in the background. It's a beauty.
Thank you!
Thank you for posting this! Very informative and needed, especially for folks just starting out.
god bless Bob doing so much legwork on these things. RetroRGB feels like the only place that takes lag as seriously as I do.
Great video. I do use one of these things for testing and image capture occasionally on my channel but I quickly realised they were terrible for PLAYING games. They also can overheat pretty badly, I had to heat sink the chip in mine. Keep fighting the good fight! 👍
Great video mate. Hopefully it’ll help educate people!
Nice info! I learned a lot from your videos, especially the 240p Not Supported problem and input lag.
This is a great video, I personally went through ALLOT of ways to record/process old video game signals. I started playing around with it like...9 years ago and what I regret the most is wasting money on these cheap chinese scaler recommendations. They are all trash, no exception, I always got MUCH better results even from direct input into my TV or deinterlacing filters in video converter software or video editors.
I wasn't ready to spend almost 300 euro on a big boy scaler like what I have now (DVDO VP30 with an upgrade) but looking back at it now I may have spent more cumulatively on these various awful scart/component to HDMI solutions
This is great information. Thank you for presenting it.
Great video Bob. Best channel on youtube for retro stuff !!! Cheers
Just got back into n64 gaming and trying to weed out the junk before taking the plunge on a proper scaler. Thanks for the tips!
Well I like many others learn this the hard way with crappy scalars and poor performance before buying an ossc.
Thank you for taking the reigns and showing us how its done and WHY its done. Much appreciated.
Wonder what is best for upscaling PS2 to HDMI. I use component cables, but aren't compatible with all my games for streaming. Pound HDMI cable for rest. Any tips?
Ouch, I was wondering why I was doing so crappy in the older games. I have that $30 upscaler. So in the end I will still have to buy a OSSC. Thanks for the video, helped clarify the issues I was having with my converter.
Agreed! Thanks for the help!
I'm using one kinda cheap upscaler and while the image can be better (and for recording I have to use OBS or equivalents to have the resolution image I want because is streched), I haven't feel any lag, BUT still even with that, I REALLY want to get a better upscaler once I save enough money, but if you can suggest me a cheap one for recording (and playing) games on a flat screen, what good scalers should I get for my retro consoles (NES, SNES, Genesis model 2, N64, Wii, PS2... also suggest me a good cable for the PS2 with the composite method, or the best quality image with a proper upscaler as well), excluding the expensive ones like the XRGB Mini?
Haven't played it yet but I do want to say the teaser image scaling immediately made me smile
A great video, dude! Thank you! Helped a lot!
Great content man, keep up the good work!
My grandfather taught me "buy once, cry once." Meaning, spend the big money the first time to buy the product that will last.
That's good advice. I wish I could say that's me...but I'm 100% guilty of trying to cheap out, THEN finding the right solution. LOL, maybe now with the website and RUclips channel I can help others from making that mistake :)
Before I got my Framemeister I had one of those "off brand" upscalers. It had automatic stretched 720P video and the colours, especially the greens were super off. I never even tried to see how much lag it actually produced because the first two were already too off putting for my own standards. Glad you made a video warning people about these pieces of crap.
Thank you for having higher standards. Having originally started on a decent CRT original hardware it's been difficult for me to enjoy old consoles on modern TV's.
Definitely interested in getting my Model 1 Genesis to output the best sound and video possible.
Awesome video. I tend to stay away from those converter/upscalers and just stick to using my consoles native cables. I do use a performance VGA box for my dreamcast though but otherwise it is mostly SVideo where applicable.
Hi Rob, You know in my setup I use Splitters at the output of my Switchers, so I can use old cables directly connected to my CRT tv (as Scart, S-Video or Component) and at the same time connectto my DVD recorder outputting in HDMI FULL HD from there. Then I connect that HDMI output to my capture card, led and proyector (thanks to a splitter again). But I have a problem, My second DVD recorder , the one can convert Component to HDMI,upscale only to a max of 480p , so I was looking for a way to upscale HDMI 480p to 1080p but whitout having to pay excesive prices of 100 dollars for it. SO, do you know any device beside this chinese upscaler? since is the only option I founded until now.
I agree. These cheap scart to HDMI scalers are horrible for gaming. I have two of them and never understood why someone would recommend them for gaming.
Hugged my CRT after watching
:)
KV-21FS150 owner here and I know that this CRT isn't the best out there (well, I have to say that I owned unused) but definitely is the BEST for 240p and 480i content (strange that some PS3 games looks better on it, too). I only wish it could have another Component input and/or S-Video.
Great video and emphasis on a good message. Totally agree on all your points, I also don't try to be elitist about set ups. I personally saw some of the youtube reviews for the pound cables and got swept up in the hype. I received 2 in a row that were terrible with different problems! That's what made me learn about VGA, S-Video and RGB FTW.
Interesting video, is there a good option for SCART to HDMI or component for under 50€ you would recommend?
The RAD2x are the cheapest at $50, but it's one per console. If you're connecting multiple, I suggest the RetroTINK2x or OSSC.
totally agree with you was also behind it, I am sensitive to lag, I have sent back a lot of purchases. I made one for the xbox classic myself. not prefect but none was finally someone on my side who can substantiate it.
U just saved me money for exactly this scaler, many thanks!
Hey thanks for this honest video. I had no idea about those cheaper converters out there affecting gameplay. This is a big heads up for some people who are playing fighting games competitively that want to play on a HDTV screen upscaled or casuals that just simply want the best experience. So in the end, better off getting the higher quality converters that are made for video gaming.
I got one of those Scart to HDMI converters last year. Thought it was okay at first, but I quickly noticed how it blurs moving pixels, and my unit even randomly interlaced some frames every few seconds. Completely unusable and needless to say it got shelved.
Amazing! Thank you! The more we vote with our money the better products will be, even emulation wise. Your work is very important. I always look forward to your videos.
Great video. Basically it makes the games play in 30fps instead of 60. Quick question, have you tried any of the cheap vga to hdmi converters? A scart to vga converter can be made fairly easily.
Every cheap analog to digital converter I've tried only digitizes the image, so there's no added lag. Sometimes it messes with the colors, but that's certainly not "experience ruining", just not as good as it could be. I'd feel comfortable just picking one up and trying.
I actually have the SCART to HDMI adapter. So far the only game I've had lag issues with on the PlayStation and Saturn was Pandemonium - but I didn't realize there was that much lag. My Neo CD is running through it (all of them are, I use the scaler for screen capping and video recording), which makes me wonder if the lag is affecting all the 2D Games. Really nice video.
Yikes...I had one of these. Although this SCART to HDMI gives PSX display going wow, the terrible experience that I had faced with that thing is frequent black screen due to crappy 5V adapter that they give until I managed replace it with better adapter.
Second is you have to switch modes from SCART mode to HDMI mode and turn it back to SCART mode just to fix green washed out display.
sorry for irrelevant question but retroRGB has no forums , when i connect my ntsc sega genesis 1 and 2 to my 20 inch sony pvm it seems it shifts horizontally to right and in the left side of tv i always have a black bar that sometimes sega compensates that void with relevant colors of games like in soccer games it becomes green , first i thought it may be a deflection adjustment problem but my pvm works fine with RGB DVD players , i have pure csync instead of composite sync and that doesnt matter because even in composite video or s-video modes i have same problem ! i have same problem of not getting a real full screen 100% in my ps2 and ps1 too but they are not as annoying as sega genesis , originally my sega genesis was PAL and i removed the 4 pins oscilator and replaced it with an NTSC one alongside with modding the pins for 60hz or 50hz i changed it to get 60 hz and my pvm recognises it when i connect it through composite or svideo it says NTSC! so if you have same experience like me guide me please !
So right now, which is the upscaler I should get if I want to stream NES, SNES and N64 games? Should I get RetroTink 2 Pro? Because I saw RAD2X is not compatible with NES
www.retrorgb.com/upscalers.html
Been using one of the cheap SCART to HDMI box for a while now. Done the job but it's a pain to use. My Elgato HD60S sometimes doesn't recognize it until I restart, or create a new scene from scratch in OBS. I have an OSSC on the way ( fingers crossed some time this week ). Since I capture from both console and retro PC's, I'm hoping the OSSC can do the trick. It cant be any worse then the Scart to HDMI box.
Good video! I went from the exact model of cheap SCART to HDMI adaptor you have in this video to an OSSC and the difference really is night and day. I can thoroughly recommend the OSSC to those who can afford it.
The only thing I would mention though, that you didn't touch on in this video (unless I missed it) is that the OSSC only accepts RGB inputs, so any console that only does composite and doesn't output RGB - like the Amiga CD32, or (PAL?) N64 you can't use with an OSSC at all.
Great and informative video! I almost bought a Pound HDMI cable, glad I didn't do it :D
You sir, are awesome! Since buying my CRT, I've been taking in all your knowledge. Great to watch, very informative, and nothing but facts!
Thank you!
Have I reminded you today of how much I love you? A lot. You sexy, sassy, señor! Seriously though, loved the video. Great job explaining the main point and clarifying what this is all about. Let's hope it reaches a lot of people! Also, Voultar now goes by "Miriam" so please update your contact info accordingly.
Great video! Very informative
Could you recommend the best converter/upscaler to digitize great picture and sound from an old s-video VCR (home movies) to 1080p HDMI/mp4? Thanks!
Honestly, the scalers that I say "never use for gaming" are actually great for VCR's. My suggestion is to start with the absolute cheapest you can find on amazon and go from there. If it's not good enough, there's better options, but cost goes up exponentially; DVDO deinterlacers, domesday duplicator project, etc.
And in your opinion what device you recommend for play old consoles in modern Tv ???thanks🕹
The RetroTINK and RAD2x products are awesome. The OSSC is higher resolution, but requires a lot more setup: www.retrorgb.com/unveiling-the-rad2x-hdmi-cables.html
www.retrorgb.com/retrotink-2x-scart-and-tink2x-pro.html
www.retrorgb.com/ossc.html
I found an old CRT HDTV with an HDMI. It also has build in VCR and DVD. Best of all worlds, except light gun games. The HDMI has overscan, so I use component for gaming. I do have it hooked up to my 55 inch too. I also added a capture card for streaming. CRT is still the way I like to go for retro.
I'm not a snobby retro guy. I don't have the funds. I don't care about up scaling. But, I did have most of my RF consoles modded to composite. That is where the money is well spent!
Great video.
Cool...is it a 4:3 or 16:9 TV?
Are the labels at 3:34 reversed? Direct s-video isnt somehow more laggy and also hooked up to the 16:9 CRT for some reason, is it?
Crap, they ARE reversed :( I checked this video MANY times too and it still got by me. Sorry!
@@RetroRGB That's what I figured. Still a good video, and I understood that part fine from context.
Bob doing the Lord's work.
This was my first upscaler and I decided to try it out again recently only to find that the poor thing had died lol. It still powers up and even sends a signal to my HDMI splitter, but it just can't process any signals, not even the HDMI passthru. Rip crummy baby's first upscaler, you will be used a donor board going forward.
What's exactly used for splitting the video output seen in 3:20 ? I'm looking for a cheap solution to splitt video so I can play in RGB quality on a CRT while recording image with an HDMI capture card (RGB Scart distribution amplifiers seem to be rare and expensive in europe).
That's a custom breakout board from Mobius Strip Tech. They should be available for sale soon.
@@RetroRGB Thank you and great vid.
That's a perfect point, poor scaling is an altered experience! It's not just about image quality here, variable lag makes the game play unpredictable/uneven and you simply cannot adjust to it.
Oh and that poor AES with the "internal HDMI" mod, my God that's one less AES in the world now. Case is all hacked up, good for nothing but the scrap heap. *Shakes head*
hey are line doublers any decent? like those of retrotink or Kaicolabs?
The RetroTINK products are excellent. Here's more info: ruclips.net/video/7VOsOuQ5mhM/видео.html
just curious, have you ever tested this thing with 960p? my capture card has issues with OSSC's 2x480p mode (for gamecube,DC,PS2 etc), I wonder if running it thru one of these would produce a decent enough image upscaling the 960p to 1080.. or maybe at least somehow standardizing the signal for capture
i tried using mClassic for that, but it kinda freaks out from that resolution lol for the time being I'm using mClassic with 480p for streaming/capture, but i dont like the effect nearly as much as the OSSC's much sharper 960p mode
I have that exact upscaler, and it's fine for my personal needs. Your use case of playing on a CRT while streaming / capturing was pretty much the only way I could get House of the Dead footage to my capture card while playing with the light gun. Gotta say, I'm not sensitive to lag. People talk about 1 to 3 frames and it's honestly not perceptible to me. Maybe I'm just weird? I think for under £30, it's worth a punt for a starter as you said.
Great video and very informative
I appreciate your doing the right thing. I purchased that scaler and good rgb to scart cables for my Genesis and in five minutes realized the scaler was blurring the image while scrolling in Phantasy Star 2. I then discontinued use. Then I RGB modded my N64 based on info on your site and the scaler works OK with 3D. I dont mind spending money to learn and appreciate the problems and challenges. I will buy the cheap new scaler you recommended can't remember its name.
I felt I was the only one that hated that shitty ass scart to hdmi adapter. Everywhere they sell them they’re filled with 5 star reviews, they have *BRUTAL* lag.
Awesome video and agree with almost everything except one thing...how is the ossc better than the framemeister?
The OSSC has zero lag, doesn't compress the colors and can linedouble 480p to 960p. The Framemeister has 1.5-2 frames of lag and compresses colors on the input side. BUT, the Framemeister is compatible with everything and some OSSC modes like 5x and 960p aren't compatible with certain displays.
Also...the price.
Can you do a recommendation video?
This video is the best I've got for now...but I'll have more detailed videos on the RetroTINK2x and OSSC soon!: ruclips.net/video/DyE85OFGQpM/видео.html
I think about the only good thing about the Pound/Hyperkin/LevelHike adapter is they would make for an easy way to hook up to a capture card to get decent enough game play footage.
Thanks for this video. Sounds perfectly fair and I found it useful!
I have admittedly used the HD Video Converter with an unattenuated Neo Geo MVS board, as I didn't want to try the unattenuated MVS with my OSSC.
Great use! LOL, test with that first, THEN your OSSC :)
Being objective can be hard for some people.
Also, people who've only experienced the cheaper solutions recommend it because it worked for them.
That being said, it's a lot easier today to get a good setup no matter if you only play with one system or many. I started with the "cheap" upscaler years ago, and didn't realize its inferiority until I invested in better equipment. Like you recommended, I use it now just as a split hdmi output to make it compatible with my elgato for most systems.
Thank you for this video. Beginners, pay attention to this!
Good video Bob!
I agree with everything you said in this and this video will hopefully guide some people what to stay away from. I can't say how many people would actually stay away from these crappy solutions for gaming on it, but it would definitely make a some difference.
All that said there is one tiny nit pick in this video I want to talk about. At 3:31 you got the text that says which input each CRT has the other way around. Very minor complaint, but still worth mentioning.
Keep it up, Bob. ;-)
Hello, I have a RetroTink and wondered if hooking up my PS1 console via S Video to it would give a much better result than the Pound cable? I'm going to get an official Sony cable to try. Thanks for all you do.
Yes, it's an excellent choice! Please check out the RAD2x PlayStation video that describes exactly how much better it is. The RetroTINK2x and RAD2x are both made by the same designer and use the same chips, so while they're different products, everything I say in the RAD2x video applies to your RetroTINK...there will just be a small difference in quality between S-Video and the RGB signal the RAD2x uses ruclips.net/video/a0Ksk9Zru_A/видео.html
I had the black HD box when I first dipped my toes into scart. Then I got a Retrotink scart to component and the results are eye opening.
It's a lot of people's "gateway drug" into retro, which is awesome...as long as people know it's a stepping stone. Like, riding a bike with training wheels vs without - If no one ever told you how much better it is without the training wheels on, you might think riding bikes is awful.
Totally agree and this video needs to be spread. I've seen other youtubers say that the generic scaler is fine, good enough and much cheaper than alternatives. I started with the crap off brand upscaler on my oled TV because it was cheap, people said it was fine and I was hesitant to spend a bunch of money on tech to support older games and figured it will be good enough. Its just plain bad. Put up with it for about a year around 2015-2016. 240p games looked "acceptable" when paused but there was lag and blur during gameplay that just took away from the experience too much. Granted, the off brand upscaler can be used. I beat numerous 240p games like the original sonics, a few megaman x series games, metal slug etc using it. It can be done but if you really enjoy retro and want to play retro games regularly you gotta go with one of the good scalers recommended by Bob. It makes the games more fun and easier to play as intended. You really are just handicapping yourself in gameplay and making the entire experience more frustrating due to the lag and the video blur just makes a mess of sprite work. It made certain instances unplayable. It was near impossible to line up the slots on the slot machine in Super Mario Bros. 3 with the generic scaler. I then got a OSSC and its totally worth it if you play a descent amount of retro and led to me playing more retro since it made games perceivably easier and more fun due to not fighting lag. I did switch to CRT about 6 months ago when I found a PVM locally but the good scalers RetroRGB recommends are more than enough for the average gamer with few drawbacks. With my OSSC vs CRT, its also noticeably easier for example to line up the slot machines in SMB3 on CRT but OSSC is great none the less during 95% of the gameplay I've experienced. I only use the ossc for multiplayer with others for the bigger screen now since I enjoy playing on the CRT more but it is very acceptable as your only solution with only a few drawbacks due to LCD/OLED lag but that isn't the OSSCs fault. If you have the passion for old games, just pick up a good scaler like the OSSC, retrotink or other good scalers recently discussed by rgbretro or a consumer CRT, or if you find a PVM, for your retro games. Don't waste your money on the generic scaler, Mine sits unused in my closet now and was frustrating during the time I used it.
Metal Jesus said this scaler was fine and that the Pound PS2 HDMI cables were......
That RGB scalar was a good idea like lead in paint
Great video!
I was hoping you'd talk about in detail about the incorrect color processing, color bleeding and contrast issues of the cheap scart to hdmi adapter. This was especially a problem with the pound/hyperkin cables.
To be honest, those issues don't bother me on cheap devices. In fact, if those were the ONLY issues, I'd even recommend them! Playing on "less than perfect" solutions should be fine for most people...but lag and progressive processed as interlaced is inexcusable.
Great work, cheers from portugal.
Thanks for the info. :) I bought a retrotink for my old consoles, because it's cost-effective (and I am not a hardcore retro-gamer). :)
Save the pixels, Bob for president. Chi for vice. Bob Chi 2020
I have also seen the videos praising those scart-2-hdmi devices and at one time I was close to fork out the money for one but Luckily never did, I did however buy an OSSC and am very happy about that, it gives an almost unbelievable sharp image with no noise, worth every penny.
I'm glad I skipped the cheap SCART to HDMI box and went directly to the Framemeister. While it does introduce a tiny bit of lag, it is not something I personally notice. Well, I play mostly turn-based RPGs, so even if there was a ton of lag I wouldn't notice lol. But the image looks super sharp and beautiful, especially when paired with HD Retrovision cables.
Thank you for doing this video it kept me from almost waisting $30. I recently purchased a super famicom and while I have a crt I can play it on I don’t really have a lot of room to set my crt up to use it. I have used the regular av cables on my flatscreen and it’s not completely horrible but I was wanting something better. I was considering the level hike cable but after watching this I am glad I didn’t and will instead wait for the rad2x to become available again.
Thank you for this information on these scalers. I have been using the Pound cable for my PS2 and Hyperkin for Dreamcast. What would you recommend for these two systems as a replacement scaler on an HDTV? I am not fussed about 480p+ on the PS2 as the games I play are not supporting it. I will not be buying the Framemeister or OSSC at this time so something other than those. A link on your channel or something would be much appreciated.
For PS2, I'd either use component video and an HDMI to component converter, or get the RAD2x version. It really depends if you're playing more 480p games, or 480i games. Please see the RAD2x video for more info.
...as for inexpensive Dreamcast solutions, I like the Gekko, but ANY solution that just converts analog to digital without scaling it to HD will most likely not add any lag and be fine to use. I'll have a video on that soon.
@@RetroRGB thank you sir, yes for PS2 I play almost always in 480i so I will check out the RAD2X! I will wait for your video on other Dreamcast solutions. I appreciate the reply and recommendations.
@@Objection010 - The RAD2X is designed and works best for 240p inputs ( The PS2 is 480i )
For my current setup i use hd retrovision ps2 component cables through a retrotink2x in 480i passthrough mode. 480p bob deinterlace is also an option but i find the jittery look to be off putting.
The lag on that SCART to HDMI box is horrendous. I use it as a cheap flicker-fixer for my Amiga sometimes, but the lag is so bad it actually makes it hard to target an icon with the mouse pointer. I don't even bother trying to play any games through that thing.
10:27 You gotta feel for Adam Koralik. Whenever this scaler is brought up, he’s always shit upon for praising it back when there were no other decent HDMI solutions (Even though now he doesn’t like it, and has moved to a RetroTink 5x Pro). It’s good to see Bob keeping the video’s context in mind without without blaming him for something he couldn’t have known.
Adam gets blamed because he refused to admit he was wrong for YEARS, all while people were wasting their money on this based on his video. He showed no remorse at all, blamed other people and yelled in my face during an in-person interview when I was trying to squash any beef he had with me.
I will never stop trying to keep people from wasting money and I'll never stop calling people out for recommending bullshit. And I'll never understand why people defend Adam over this...
@@RetroRGB My apologies. I sincerely had no idea that Adam was as aggressive as he was towards criticism. I do not defend this kind of behavior nor the misinformation when he became fully aware that there were better solutions.
As a fan of both of you guys, I sincerely hope that Adam will change his attitude, especially considering that he has been showcasing better solutions in the past few years. I did not comment with the intention of adding fuel to a fire.
@@RetroRGB I'm watching this video for the first time and thought you were arguably too kind to him in this, although that was definitely the right move on your part. The stuff he was putting forward at that time couldn't even be excused on the basis of ignorance back then. I remember doing research of my own for scaling and capture equipment in 2012-2013 and being baffled at things like this being recommended by anyone who purported to be an expert. Like, even if literally the only information you had to go off of was Fudoh's old XRGB/scaler review pages (which were the most widely shared starting points for this subject) you should have already known better.
@@RetroRGB That man hates any kind of criticism. lol. ANY.. LOL