The maddening incompatibility of 3.5mm A/V cables

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  • Опубликовано: 27 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 757

  • @hypercube33
    @hypercube33 10 месяцев назад +316

    The best part about standards is there are so many to choose from

    • @notNajimi
      @notNajimi 10 месяцев назад +6

      @@gorak9000and your device needs to actually adhere to the specifications for all those standards, then you’re right as rain!

    • @LarixusSnydes
      @LarixusSnydes 10 месяцев назад +6

      The TRRS standards that chose to use another contact for ground than the sleeve should have been rejected by all importers/ regulation boards. That way the *cable* will actually work on all analog AV devices by just swapping RCA jacks around.

  • @grantm902
    @grantm902 10 месяцев назад +490

    Not using sleeve for ground in all instances is quite sadistic. I can only imagine it would be done as a means of limiting crosstalk internally on a header, or to enforce proprietariness.

    • @bobweiss8682
      @bobweiss8682 10 месяцев назад +76

      Kind of like the evil center pin negative power connectors....no valid reason to do it other than to break compatibility.

    • @Cyber_Engineer
      @Cyber_Engineer 10 месяцев назад +13

      Thank goodnes no one did it. No one did it... right....?

    • @TheRasteri
      @TheRasteri 10 месяцев назад +36

      It's for cross-compatibility with TRS connectors. Most board-mount TRS sockets have the ground pin where the second ring is on a TRRS plug. (but some chassis-mount TRS connectors have it where the S is so it still goes wrong sometimes...)

    • @marsdeat
      @marsdeat 10 месяцев назад +17

      @@TheRasteri Yeah, and I immediately knew what Apple had done when changing connectors because I knew about this. (I actually know about this for a different reason: the now-mostly-over war between the two TRRS headphone/microphone jack standards: CTIA (LRGM) and OMTP (LRMG)).

    • @ayarnold9523
      @ayarnold9523 10 месяцев назад +4

      Not to mention all the different sizes of external and internal dimensions

  • @brundaged1
    @brundaged1 10 месяцев назад +434

    I had always assumed these cables were standardized. I appreciate this video.

    • @Gunbudder
      @Gunbudder 10 месяцев назад +21

      the only thing standard is the size. except when its not lol

    • @branbroken
      @branbroken 10 месяцев назад

      The cables are all electrically the same though, the thing with the different/non standard output is all the camcorder devices.

    • @Balikon
      @Balikon 10 месяцев назад +5

      Nope, cause manufacturers wanted you to buy their accessories.

    • @nickwallette6201
      @nickwallette6201 10 месяцев назад

      @@Balikon There's not always justification for cynicism. There are a few reasons why there are different variations of the TRRS connector, specifically:
      1) Some devices are meant to support the insertion of TRS or TRRS plugs. E.g., the headphone jack of a device that can also produce video. If you insert headphones or a line-out cable, which are both TRS, you want Left and RIght audio, and you need Ground. And, if there's another ring, it should carry Video. But if there ISN'T a second ring, it should not connect to _anything_ on a TRS plug. For this reason, it's important that a TRRS jack use the "L,R,V,G" arrangement.
      2) On the other hand, there are devices (like camcorders) where stereo audio isn't as important as video + mono audio. For those, if you only have a TRS cable, you would prefer mono audio + video over stereo audio and no video. So for those devices, it's important that a TRRS jack use the "L,V,R,G" arrangement.
      3) Backwards compatibility is a thing. Some manufacturers want to ensure that when you upgrade your device, your accessories are compatible, ideally, forward and backward. But there's a wrench in the works: The 3.5 mm mini plug connector has been around a long time, and there are lots of manufacturers out there making parts. Back when only TS and TRS were common, the placement of the shield connection inside the jack wasn't critical. So, manufacturers chose a contact point with the stem of the plug that best suited the space they had inside the jack. And that was fine -- until you start adding additional rings. Then your leeway for where to contact the plug starts to shrink. If your existing products all used jacks that contact the shield toward the base of the plug -- no problem. But, if they contacted the plug higher up, it could actually land where the 2nd ring terminal goes on TRRS plugs. That might mean that you accidentally swap G and V (or mic, or whatever the third signal line is supposed to be), OR, it might just leave the signals ungrounded. (Particularly with adapters.) So, for those, it's important to have a "L,R,G,V" arrangement.
      But mostly, many manufacturers solved this problem however they needed to, until standards started to emerge. When they did, a manufacturer was faced with retaining backward compatibility with older products, or dropping the arrangement they used before in favor of the more appropriate and/or standardized arrangement. Which is what I suspect happened with Apple when they released the iPod with video output, compared to the iBook.
      Many manufacturers had vibrant third-party ecosystems, and not all of them prioritized selling aftermarket cables for their products. (Usually, they would ship WITH the product, and only sold separately as a replacement item.) So, no, nobody was trying to get rich off of selling proprietary composite video cables. It was just a chaotic ecosystem that has since mostly whittled itself down to a few common versions. But still a few, because the fallback-to-TRS case is different depending on the kind of product it is, which necessitates different pinouts.

    • @ThePlacehole
      @ThePlacehole 10 месяцев назад +2

      Kids that grew up around knock-off electronics from early 90s are extremely aware of the incompatibility.
      Parents asking ten times a day why the colors don't match...
      "I don't know why the tape player has four cables. Just try every combination, MOM!"
      "Isn't it going to break the TV?"
      "I DON'T KNOW!"

  • @blurstreams
    @blurstreams 10 месяцев назад +245

    "Apple couldn't keep it straight even before Tim Cook became CEO" oh my god that came out of nowhere

    • @av_oid
      @av_oid 10 месяцев назад +16

      That one went right over my head. Whoosh.

    • @fluffyty19
      @fluffyty19 10 месяцев назад +9

      Was looking for this comment, I had to rewind after that one I was laughing so much 😂

    • @juanignacioaschura9437
      @juanignacioaschura9437 10 месяцев назад +8

      The shade!

    • @djrenault
      @djrenault 10 месяцев назад +1

      i had to pause the video after that one lol

    • @notNajimi
      @notNajimi 10 месяцев назад +2

      Today I learned, I guess.

  • @kote315
    @kote315 10 месяцев назад +152

    If you find this confusing, know that USSR equipment used DIN5 for essentially everything - headphones, microphones, composite video, RGB video, remote controls, joysticks and even power. And yes, if you connect the power to the wrong socket, there is a risk of damaging the device. But don't worry - all soviet devices came with user manuals with circuit diagrams. So you can fix everything yourself. In the same manual, you could find the pinouts of all the cables so you can solder them yourself.

    • @MosoKaiser
      @MosoKaiser 10 месяцев назад +38

      Not just USSR, DIN connectors were quite widely used across the rest of Europe as well. Same thing with product documentation that included schematics, parts lists and other repair & maintenance info. They don't make 'em like they used to... Nowadays it's the manuals just saying to leave repairs to authorized service locations and the devices saying not to open and there (supposedly) being no user servicable parts inside.

    • @Fifury161
      @Fifury161 10 месяцев назад +10

      Yes I guess back in the day circuits where designed with a lot more passive components. Including the circuit diagram was common as well. These days, due to everything being highly integrated including a circuit diagram won't really help as the ICs are usually proprietry and cannot be purchased individually. Also with having components so small that you could easily fit a dozen or more on a grain of rice makes DIY repair incredibly difficult if not impossible.

    • @retropcs88
      @retropcs88 10 месяцев назад +11

      My friend blew up his old Czechoslovakian amplifier since they used DIN5 jacks for everything and THEY HAD THE SAME PINOUT. So he accidentally connected a line input into the phono connector and blew up the preamp. I was tasked with fixing it 😂

    • @notNajimi
      @notNajimi 10 месяцев назад

      Well score one for user repairability at least. Maybe that’s why devices are black boxes now, they see it as too communist to let us fix our own stuff :P

    • @DejanTesic
      @DejanTesic 10 месяцев назад +9

      Way back when (I'm old) the Soviet gear had completely incompatible connectors (just like their system, lol). DIN is actually German (in what used to be West Germany) it stands for Deutsches Institut für Normung (literally German Institute for Standardisation.) So when DIN arrived in the USSR that was actually progress. :)

  • @ivanpedrero1455
    @ivanpedrero1455 10 месяцев назад +81

    In case anyone is wondering, here is the theoretical total of possible combinations:
    For a TRS connector: 6
    For a TRRS connector: 24
    Thank you very much for your work Mr Kevin.
    Best regards from Chile.

    • @BrianStewart126
      @BrianStewart126 10 месяцев назад +2

      Apparently there's more to it than the simple mapping, as the Iomega ScreenPlay showed.

    • @MrAwawe
      @MrAwawe 10 месяцев назад +6

      If the sleeve is assumed to be ground, which is the standard but doesn't appear to be followed all the time, then the number of possibilities is 2 and 6 for trs and trrs respectively.
      The possibilities for n varying poles is n!, i.e. n factorial. A mathematical operation where you multiply an integer by every integer smaller than it. 1! = 1, 2! = 2 * 1 = 2, 3! = 3 * 2 *1 = 6, etc.

    • @ConsumerDV
      @ConsumerDV 10 месяцев назад +2

      If we assume that on the other side all connectors are of the same RCA type, then there are only two variations: with ground on the second ring, and with ground on the sleeve. Ensure that ground matches, and re-arrange other connectors accordingly.

    • @prk55
      @prk55 10 месяцев назад +2

      There are also at least two different lengths of pin and some equipment can be damaged if you use the long pins in a short socket.

  • @rzeka
    @rzeka 10 месяцев назад +76

    This is exactly the kind of extremely specific content I love

  • @orangejjay
    @orangejjay 10 месяцев назад +45

    RUclips is finally going back to recommending to me the channels I truly love instead of the junk I won't pay any attention to. It makes me happy to see that your subscriber count has nearly doubled and that you're still the same voice and channel you've always been. ❤❤

    • @JPX64Channel
      @JPX64Channel 10 месяцев назад

      yeah i also noticed the same, i was like wtf where are my favorite tech channels in my home page?

    • @HenryLoenwind
      @HenryLoenwind 10 месяцев назад +1

      Maybe for you, but I found this video under "new for you", and I'm even subscribed. At least my unfiltered suggestion page was full of garbage today...

  • @BanjoGate
    @BanjoGate 10 месяцев назад +122

    Oh my goodness. You have unlocked a bunch of bad memories that I had forgotten with trying to get game consoles, camcorders and DVD/VCRs all to work together... Alas trying all the ports on the back of the VCR (as well as setting the time) was something only a very young child was seemingly capable of doing.

    • @vadnegru
      @vadnegru 10 месяцев назад +5

      I remember my friend brought his xbox360. Picture quality was mind blowing, similar to digital ins on that tv.
      UPD: it wasn't Xbox, it was actually DVD itself, where i used component cable from T2 decoder. It was fun seeing all colours messed up until you plug them right.

    • @CraigChrist8239
      @CraigChrist8239 10 месяцев назад +4

      I despised the 3.5mm A/V connection but my young-self never knew why

    • @notNajimi
      @notNajimi 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@vadnegruhow did you do that? to my knowledge all Xbox 360s have a proprietary video out that is adapted to composite or component with a cable. It would be really nice to use any old component cable with the thing so I’m pretty curious

    • @vadnegru
      @vadnegru 10 месяцев назад

      @@notNajimi looking into them, all of them has cables and not sockets.

    • @x35gaming
      @x35gaming 10 месяцев назад

      @notNajimi It was the XBOX 360 E that had the TRRS jack on it.
      The OG / slim models had the weirdo cable.

  • @ergleburgle8882
    @ergleburgle8882 10 месяцев назад +6

    This channel is about the last place on earth I'd expect to see a BBC 1 continuity announcement and then a clip of Match Of The Day... :D

  • @TechGorilla1987
    @TechGorilla1987 10 месяцев назад +23

    This here video gives not only "tips" but runs "rings" around any A/V content out there. I will give this video a "plug" on my social media.

    • @PartyPhil1
      @PartyPhil1 10 месяцев назад +1

      What is wrong with you? Why are you blue?

    • @JoBot__
      @JoBot__ 10 месяцев назад

      Heh, looks like you really have something up your "sleeve" when it comes to puns.

  • @BillyTheKidsGhost
    @BillyTheKidsGhost 10 месяцев назад +82

    The same problem comes up when using modern TRS MIDI. You can use this very technique to make it work.

    • @tookitogo
      @tookitogo 10 месяцев назад +3

      MIDI on TRS?!? Who the heck came up with that, when it already has its standard DIN jack?

  • @RecordCouncil
    @RecordCouncil 10 месяцев назад +9

    Wow what crazy timing. Funnily enough I was STILL dealing with this issue the very day you uploaded this video trying to use the TRRS port on my Raspberry Pi to output composite video.

    • @markianclark9645
      @markianclark9645 8 месяцев назад

      RecordCouncil well done...i wondered while watching if anyone would have experienced the RaspberryPi pinout...many seem to have forgotten about it these days...i found this out a few years ago...you can find information online specifically telling the user to buy the cable from an authorised RPi seller such as The Pi Hut...which i did

  • @Gansteeth
    @Gansteeth 10 месяцев назад +33

    Amazing how you can take a seemingly mundane subject like this and turn into a brain-melting epic. Great video!

  • @dr_bnc
    @dr_bnc 10 месяцев назад +26

    Those used car commercials are gold! 🤣

    • @BeelzeJon
      @BeelzeJon 10 месяцев назад

      Best believe that the lads are still marketing their used cars to this day on cable 💯💪

  • @Flopster101
    @Flopster101 10 месяцев назад +33

    I tried to use one of those splitters for modern TVs to get composite output from my Raspberry Pi 3B+ and it gave me an inverted composite signal, how lovely. Ended up building my own cable with an old TRRS headphone cable.

    • @duncansnowden6857
      @duncansnowden6857 10 месяцев назад +6

      Yep, I just checked my own RPi cable and it seems to use the camcorder convention of video on the sleeve. Which I guess makes sense since it was the closest thing to an established “standard” by the time the Pi came out, but it still seems weird.

    • @dyter424
      @dyter424 10 месяцев назад +3

      The problem is, if your cable connects the sleeve to ground, you're out of luck.

    • @Flopster101
      @Flopster101 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@duncansnowden6857 They probably also made the 2nd ring ground so it would be compatible with headphones that have mics/buttons (which have the ground on the 2nd ring as well).

  • @Frankfurtdabezzzt
    @Frankfurtdabezzzt 10 месяцев назад +7

    25:20 I love that Sony kept the recording chimes the same after all these years - My RX100 M7 still uses the same chimes!

  • @gregrorabaugh564
    @gregrorabaugh564 10 месяцев назад +10

    Well done video. Yes, I have had all these experiences. Thanks for putting all the discombobulated mess in an orderly way.

  •  10 месяцев назад +1

    Super video!!! I am a very old patagonian engineer and professsor and I love that youth like you adore vintage and teaches so well!!! I thank you.

  • @HattmannenNilsson
    @HattmannenNilsson 10 месяцев назад +39

    I've come across this problem once or twice. The fun continues, however.
    Headsets - stereo audio + microphone - the kind of earbuds you might have used for your mobile phone. When they first started appearing, many devices used a different pinout than the standard you find today. I think it was on a SonyEricsson Walkman phone I discovered that.

    • @DelticEngine
      @DelticEngine 10 месяцев назад +13

      Correct. It was Apple that screwed everything up by swapping the mic and ground connections around. Apple 'decided' that it would be better if the Mic connection went to the Sleeve and the Ground went to the adjacent Ring. This had the highly undesirable effect of breaking backwards compatibility so that mobile phone headsets could not be used as high quality earphones in other devices. Android devices, at least in the early days, kept the Sleeve as Ground and added an extra Ring for the Mic which was great because it maintained backwards compatibility. It doesn't help that 4-pole pcb connectors are difficult to get hold of and four-pole leads are generally lousy quality for anyone wanting to adapt existing devices or make adapters.

    • @josangoj78
      @josangoj78 10 месяцев назад +7

      On cellphones at least there were only two headset pinouts, the tip and the outer ring were always L and R to keep compatibility with consumer audio headphones. One pinout was known as OMDP (inner ring mic, sleeve ground), and the other that became the de facto standard, is known as CTIA (inner ring ground, sleeve mic)

    • @sakitoshi
      @sakitoshi 10 месяцев назад +1

      at least there are adapters to solve that problem (CTIA to OMTP), some headphones manufacturers even include (or used to) the adapter.
      i bought a pair of soundmagic E10C headphones a while ago and they came with the adapter, so i can use them with my old sony ericsson xperia pro or my current phone.

    • @lucasrem
      @lucasrem 10 месяцев назад

      HattmannenNilsson
      WHAT PROBLEM YOU HAVE ?
      You try video on walkman ? Just digitise the old tapes !
      discovered what ? Where you store the Video content ? You Forgot ? upload it ?

    • @bland9876
      @bland9876 10 месяцев назад

      ​​@@josangoj78strangly enough I think I've only ever owned one pair of earbuds that had a microphone built in.
      I did own a weird headphone that had a microphone built in but the microphone was in the cable like an earbud not in the headphones or on a sticking out bit like gamers have. Thats very strange and I don't know what Sony was thinking
      I had an old cell phone that let me use the mic built into it when making a phone call with headphones or earphones so I had no use for my one pair with the built-in microphone and I liked other pairs I had so I got rid of them.
      Headphones I had I didn't really use because I had other pairs and I got them as a Christmas gift. When playing online games I use a dedicated mic I double-sided tape to my headphones.

  • @ObiWanBillKenobi
    @ObiWanBillKenobi 10 месяцев назад +11

    Wow! 🤯 Thank you very much for this video! I had no idea that there was no industry standard for mapping the contacts of 3.5 mm. TRS/TRRS AV connectors of this time, even though to the naked eye they seem identical. (This is where extra RCA male-male cords and alligator clips come in very handy! 😊) This video may save me and many other people from mistakenly trashing devices that actually work!

  • @TheMightyOmega-NotTheAlpha
    @TheMightyOmega-NotTheAlpha 10 месяцев назад +5

    I once did a composite video modification to an old Intellivision video game console. Since I didn’t want to drill any holes in early 1980s brittle plastic, I wired the audio and video to a TRRS socket, and routed it out the opening for the RF jack. Because stupid me assumed that all sane TRRS cables make the sleeve ground, that’s how I wired the socket.
    I just bought a TRRS cable on Amazon, and nothing worked.
    I tried the swapping pins, no go. Then I toned out the cable and found that the ring next to the sleeve was wired to the grounds on the jacks, in contradiction of the description.
    I rewired the socket after I finished using all the best kind of words for lovely chinesium manufacturers.

  • @Madness832
    @Madness832 10 месяцев назад +23

    My Sony flatscreen required a cable for the composite inputs (not included). A genuine Sony, from their parts supplier, was nearly $37! But after some online help, I located a compatible cable, on Amazon, for just over $6.

    • @notNajimi
      @notNajimi 10 месяцев назад +3

      Ah, the Apple strategy! Take something away and charge a premium to get it back

    • @memediatek
      @memediatek 10 месяцев назад +1

      TCL do similar, but they include a cable just don’t sell a replacement. I’m looking at a Sony tv so hoping the TVL cable is compatible

    • @rs12official
      @rs12official 4 месяца назад

      $37 is outrageous. It’s just a few wires with molded connectors on the ends, it should only cost a few dollars or be included with the product in the first place!!!

  • @turnerjohnsonii4704
    @turnerjohnsonii4704 7 месяцев назад +1

    Sir this video was so timely, I found a box full of old 8mm tapes from the mid 90's and I couldn't get any video or audio on my new 2024 television, after watching this video and switching the plugs around, my grandchildren are now watching videos of their parents as children, thank you, I am now a Subscriber !!!

  • @SocieteRoyale
    @SocieteRoyale 10 месяцев назад +5

    lol I definitely wasn't expecting to see a recording of Match of the Day from 2008!

  • @NorthcoasterHobby
    @NorthcoasterHobby 10 месяцев назад +1

    What a comprehensive video on AV cable pinouts! Without this information it would be easy for many people to assume (including myself) that the cable is faulty if it doesn’t work with a particular device.

  • @Gunbudder
    @Gunbudder 10 месяцев назад +12

    Don't forget the iPod Shuffle 4th gen which used a TRRS cable for both USB and stereo audio! The iPod can detect which one is plugged in and will switch modes automatically. that TRRS to USB cable is super tiny and easy to lose and annoying to replace lol

    • @AbdAbdAbdAbd
      @AbdAbdAbdAbd 10 месяцев назад +1

      those cables are an absolute bitch to track down, the aftermarket ones don't work at all and the official ones cost too damn much for me to bother.

  • @KRAFTWERK2K6
    @KRAFTWERK2K6 10 месяцев назад +11

    Yup, i also experienced something similar with a few of these chinese low-budget clone consoles with NES games on them or those better emulation handhelds. Even those are sometimes not compatible regarding their 3,5mm Combo Jack. I usually use the Raspberry Pi (Model 2 and up) as a reference for how it should be. As it makes great sense there to have an analog output, for when you need signals to be sent to an older Standard Def television.

  • @ran2wild370
    @ran2wild370 10 месяцев назад +11

    Wow, that Spanish speaking lady is so energetic!

  • @fosterb247
    @fosterb247 10 месяцев назад +4

    Thanks Mr VWestlife. All my pain and buckets of AV cables from this era explained away in 2024. The nonsense of cable incompatibility is a saga and not just a story from the past - The cables today are different but just as annoying 🤓

    • @cardboardsnail
      @cardboardsnail 10 месяцев назад

      Yeah USB-C is quite the can of worms. Different data speeds, different charging capabilities, some weird proprietary standards like OnePlus' VOOC exist...etc.

  • @carltonleboss
    @carltonleboss 10 месяцев назад +7

    Didn't expect to see Match of the Day turn up on this channel.

  • @COASTER1921
    @COASTER1921 10 месяцев назад +1

    This video is bringing back so many memories. These cables were maddening and sometimes you couldn't find the right one so would have to settle for one that's nearly correct being plugged 2/3 of the way in.

  • @Capturing-Memories
    @Capturing-Memories 10 месяцев назад +1

    The buzzing is the sync pulses in the composite cable. Nice video for people who just started in this hobby.

  • @ugzz
    @ugzz 10 месяцев назад +1

    Lol.. your thumbnail is great showing scissors cutting one.. I did EXACTLY that about a month ago.. and I didn't realize it was a TRRS, and when I wired it for Stereo I was only getting mono. The default wiring was using the top for video and the next two rings for audio, but the wiring for my project was using the top as an audio channel. It worked out in the end, but I had hoped to just plugin and be good, and instead I had to cut and rewire..
    Great Vid!

  • @MrMegaManFan
    @MrMegaManFan 10 месяцев назад +1

    One of the most educational channels on RUclips by far.

  • @Mrshoujo
    @Mrshoujo 10 месяцев назад +2

    Another banger of an explanatory video.
    I ran into one of those 4 connector cables when attempting to transfer my digital videotapes from my trip to Didneyworld when I bought it from Amazon where it paired Video and Mono Audio together on a connector instead of with Ground. So I brute forced it - I soldered a wire changing adaptor to make it work correctly instead of buying another damn cable.

  • @alexisguerrero7551
    @alexisguerrero7551 10 месяцев назад +1

    This was an enjoyable video to watch, thank you for your time and dedication.

  • @sfurta
    @sfurta 10 месяцев назад +2

    Some years ago a guy on ebay sold me a half-working mini dvd camera for 50 pound, stating the video out didn’t work. I knew what was going on😄

  • @theretrogeek2281
    @theretrogeek2281 10 месяцев назад +3

    Well that explains it then why I had problems in the past using similar 3 ringed 3.5mm Jack plugs..thanks very informative. 👍🏽

    • @t1m3f0x
      @t1m3f0x 10 месяцев назад

      You could try using an OMTP/CTIA adapter.

  • @Charlesb88
    @Charlesb88 10 месяцев назад +2

    Oh my, this really takes me back. I’ve owned several portable TV and/or DVD players and a Raspberry Pi that all used a TRRS or TRS 3.5mm cable for analog composite A/V out and they all they all seemed to have different wiring configurations. I ended up making a cable for my Raspberry Pi since it seemed to use a particularly non-standard wiring config. It’s great when all your need to do is just swap the V, LA, and RA plugs but It a real pain when one of the sleeves is used for ground.

  • @robotmachine
    @robotmachine 10 месяцев назад +1

    I have a Roku with this type of output and I have long thought it was broken because the output is scrambled like in your video. Now I know I need a different cable. Thanks!!

  • @Rivenworld
    @Rivenworld 10 месяцев назад +1

    Have run into this issue myself a number of times. As a side note (with me being a bit OCD) I am so pleased to see you know your 'jacks' from your 'plugs', so may YT videos I see where people refer to a plug as a jack, thank you for pacifying one of my pet hates lol. Great video as always, love your channel dude 🙂

  • @FranklyPeetoons
    @FranklyPeetoons 10 месяцев назад +1

    Another edge-of-my-seat video. But the Tim & Eric 80s intro/transition music has a new arrangement! It threw me for a while, but I got used to it.

  • @8antipode9
    @8antipode9 10 месяцев назад +8

    Wow, good job...didn't expect to learn so much from this video. I had no idea that there were cables where the "S" wasn't used for ground. I definitely would have thought you could just swap the cables around! I've started collecting 8bit computers, and this reminded me of the AV cables for TI99/4A, Atari and C64. I haven't yet come up with a labeling scheme for my cable, as now I have all 3 computers that work with the same cable.

    • @BilisNegra
      @BilisNegra 10 месяцев назад

      I did expect so, but only because of who this video is coming from, and how much Kevin can squeeze into 15 minutes, so if this needed to be almost twice that much...

  • @seasonstudios
    @seasonstudios 10 месяцев назад +1

    Thanks for the tour through the spaghetti world of A/V cables. I'm sure a lot of mod techs who only want the latest gadgets will wonder why all this matters now but it does. Remember when we used to ask, "why can't the world of cables and jacks be universal?" I have a box of these various cables and they come in handy depending on what project I'm doing. It can be both frustrating and fun trying to work it all out.

  • @rich1051414
    @rich1051414 10 месяцев назад +27

    I know TRRS as a miniature balanced connector. Those are really frustrating because of all the different ways they could be wired and be incompatible.

    • @Damien_N
      @Damien_N 10 месяцев назад +6

      3.5mm TRRS can be a little spicy as a balanced connector given how easy it is to confuse it with a headphone with remote or in this case stereo audio + video. I think 2.5mm or 4.4mm is much better to avoid getting this confused.

    • @beefeeb
      @beefeeb 10 месяцев назад +1

      What uses TRRS for balanced audio? You only need 3 connectors for that and TRS/XLR is the standard

    • @Damien_N
      @Damien_N 10 месяцев назад +2

      @@beefeeb Sony WM1A, Sony MV1, Fostex T60RP, Oppo PM-3 do on the headphone side. Incidentally the Sony’s use a different pin out compared to the Fostex and Oppo.

    • @rich1051414
      @rich1051414 10 месяцев назад +2

      @@beefeeb For stereo balanced, you can do balanced as L+, L-, R+, R-,(Ground is derived after cancelling the two out), and some portable balanced headphone amps uses it.

    • @beefeeb
      @beefeeb 10 месяцев назад

      @@rich1051414 oh right, forgot headphone manufacturers started selling "balanced" units. I'm used to the pro audio standard

  • @LightTheUnicorn
    @LightTheUnicorn 10 месяцев назад +2

    Aha! I got a kick out of the content on your ScreenPlay, didn't expect to see match of the day!
    Anyone who's had even a modest number of AV-adjacent devices from the 2000s must have drawers of these things, I know I do. I don't use them often but it's always a bit of a guess what goes with what anymore!

  • @TheNostalgicFuture
    @TheNostalgicFuture 10 месяцев назад

    Man, i had a handheld video game system i loved that used that cable. Lost it one day, and tried several others i had on hand randomly over the course of years and expirienced this exactly like you did. I just reversed the connections like you showed, and it worked perfectly. Such a simple solution. Always appreciate your videos!

  • @waynesharp1690
    @waynesharp1690 10 месяцев назад +5

    Love seeing these old camcorders and the types of cables used in the past 👍

    • @lucasrem
      @lucasrem 10 месяцев назад

      Please digitise the tape now !
      Don't do what he is doing !

  • @o0julek0o
    @o0julek0o 10 месяцев назад +4

    Oh boy, yes. I remember working in an electronics shop as a teenager. We somehow had like 5 different versions of those AV cables, and we absolutely NEVER got it right on the 1st try.

  • @t1m3f0x
    @t1m3f0x 10 месяцев назад +1

    For cables that split a 3.5mm jack into 3 RCA jacks, if the ground is in the wrong place you can use an OMTP/CTIA adapter to swap the pin out of the sleeve and the ring above it.

  • @timf-tinkering
    @timf-tinkering 10 месяцев назад +4

    I'd always assumed the 4-pole A/V plugs were standardised. Had no idea there were variations, including some that didn't use the sleeve as ground! Early Sharp Viewcams used a 2.5mm mono plug for video, and a 3.5mm plug for audio. It's surprisingly difficult to find a 2.5mm mono plug to Phono (RCA) cable. I had to resort to making my own cables. (I know you can get adaptors, but I always feel that these place too much stress on the delicate sockets on the camcorder.)

  • @knightsun2920
    @knightsun2920 10 месяцев назад +1

    This weirdness also extends into the modern world with advanced smart phones that have headphones with microphones and controls for receiving a call. My sisters wedding reception in Cuba late April 2018 had a problem like this.

  • @Ice_Karma
    @Ice_Karma 10 месяцев назад +2

    7:17 I guess they needed to use a 3.5 mm TRRS connectors for composite/component video and stereo audio on that Iomega ScreenPlay because of that SCART connector. You'd almost think they would've been further ahead to just use the SCART connector, and pack in SCART-to-composite-and-stereo and SCART-to-component-and-stereo adapters (maybe only outside Europe), instead of duplicating the ports and still needing to ship custom cables, but my money's on "that would've cost more".

  • @arianshahrokh1439
    @arianshahrokh1439 10 месяцев назад +2

    My jersey boy always with the deep cuts. Love the vids

  • @ArturdeSousaRocha
    @ArturdeSousaRocha 10 месяцев назад +2

    The selection of clips is superb, as usual. 😂

  • @nothingtoseehere.9923
    @nothingtoseehere.9923 10 месяцев назад

    Best video on low-tech ever but sorely needed a refresher has every tech does now and again...
    As an electrical engineering tech PLC programmer 30-year 40-year electrician US Air Force jet engine mechanic,, I am seeing that the shield possibly not being connected to the conductor used as ground as bad as the connectors just not working at all, low volts with no shielding turns into an instant RF antenna as is when the static changes when you change turn directions and your electric guitar noise changes if the noise changes it's RF if the noise doesn't change when you move it's bad grounding but you got to have proper shielding otherwise the game is already over. Like that and subscribed please keep that's a good work.

  • @AMDRADEONRUBY
    @AMDRADEONRUBY 10 месяцев назад +2

    Kevin thanks for making this video I wasn't crazy afterall! Very interesting video

  • @Pillowcase
    @Pillowcase 10 месяцев назад +1

    Apparently I'm happy to listen to you talk about anything.

  • @Alexis_du_60
    @Alexis_du_60 10 месяцев назад +12

    I've seen a camera that had such a cable, except instead of having 3 RCA jacks, it had two (video and L audio), and a USB (power) plug.. Both weird and somewhat dangerous if plugged by mistake into a device that isn't compatible..

  • @TheRasteri
    @TheRasteri 10 месяцев назад +1

    another delightfully specific topic!

  • @a4e69636b
    @a4e69636b 10 месяцев назад +2

    Wish I knew about the iBook having composite output back in the day. Thank you for this video.

  • @WalterKnox
    @WalterKnox 10 месяцев назад +1

    When my mother bought a new TV last year I was amazed at the (lack of an) input selection it had. 3 HDMI ports, and one 3.5mm port for a breakout cable for composite (which was not included.) That is it. No other analog inputs, just the 3.5mm port. I am sure that has been the standard for quite some time, but the newest TV I own is my 2006 Panasonic Plasma TV, which has about every digital and analog input you would ever want.

  • @Bob_C
    @Bob_C 10 месяцев назад +5

    Thank you for the info in this video. I often encounter problems with incompatible cables. Now I know why. I'm totally ignorant of how optical cables and other digital output cables work and which type of digital cables to use with my audio/video players and av receivers. I'm wondering if you made a video on that subject too. Much appreciated.

  • @docnele
    @docnele 10 месяцев назад +4

    That cable that produces rolling image, take the slim uninsulated copper wire and connect all grounds on the TV jacks. Can be done with aluminium foil. Video should work. but it sound will be mono and you will have to choose left or right audio out, but it is bearable if your device can select mono sound.
    For emergencies ;)

  • @myfavoriteviewer306
    @myfavoriteviewer306 10 месяцев назад +1

    About 8 years ago I was teaching a class for phone technical support for a cable company. A kid in the class stuck around one day after we had gone over composite and component cables, worried if someone would call who couldn't tell the difference between the colors. I explained a strategy where someone could fold the flat cable in half to pair up the ends and match the labels between the TV and receiver jacks and everything will be fine. He wasn't so sure that the different colors would work because they're for different data. It completely blew his mind when we went to the racks and mixed up the color code and everything worked 😂 We discovered he was completely overthinking things and didn't pick up on the fact that copper cabling can't be trained to send only specific data while rejecting all others and as long as the ends are connected where they should be, the colored plastic doesn't care either🤦‍♂️

    • @eDoc2020
      @eDoc2020 10 месяцев назад

      Copper cable can't be trained to a single type but that doesn't mean all cables are the same. Sometimes the video connection has a higher quality cable to maintain better high frequency signal integrity over distance.

  • @marcberm
    @marcberm 10 месяцев назад +3

    Most models of TiVo Mini use these 3.5mm jacks to breakout A/V and component cables. I'm sure it's about space saving on the back of an already small set top/back device. Otherwise, the HDMI port works just fine, but not much love for older connector technology from TiVo.

  • @Bellinose
    @Bellinose 10 месяцев назад +1

    "Surely you can't make a 26mn entertaining video about... RCA cables!
    - I am serious, and don't call me Shirley..."
    I've been there for a while but didn't know the apparently simplest cables could be such a mess.
    Now I understand better how they completely lost their mind about USB and HDMI and so on! (which in french could be translated as "ils ont complètement pété un câble" -> they have "broken a cable", how appropriate 😄)
    First ever comment here... Thanks for your great work and your no fuss approach, and for debunking yesterday tech that is still there!

  • @DrCassette
    @DrCassette 10 месяцев назад +1

    The sleeve not being ground is a new one for me...

  • @jusun2009
    @jusun2009 10 месяцев назад +1

    Man, I never thought that such an A/V cable has many differences without looking at and testing them properly.

  • @PatrickCraig-lh5is
    @PatrickCraig-lh5is 10 месяцев назад

    I also have a small collection of these cables and have run into this exact problem myself on numerous occasions. Good to know I'm not alone!

  • @autistvidya2215
    @autistvidya2215 10 месяцев назад +1

    You really snuck the Tim Cook joke on me, good one. Also good info in general.

  • @Scrogan
    @Scrogan 10 месяцев назад +1

    At least those two Apple ones kept left audio as the tip and right audio as the first ring. That’s a hard requirement for being able to just plug in speakers or headphones into them, which is vital for an iPod or laptop, but also could be useful for a camera with a built-in screen. The flip-flopping on the ground and video pins is just like the flip-flopping we have now on microphone plugs. It’s a compromise between being able to have TRRS headphones that work when plugged into different sorts of TRS sockets. Insulated sockets (more common in modern equipment) often don’t have the ground pin all the way at the base of the jack, so having the mic being the sleeve makes more sends here, while non-insulated chassis-mount jacks naturally have the ground connection at the base of the jack (but may also connect higher up and touch the second ring), so I can see why most people these days use the sleeve for microphone.
    Though this reasoning doesn’t apply to the composite video cables. Here you just have a lack of standardisation or foresight.

  • @KRAFTWERK2K6
    @KRAFTWERK2K6 10 месяцев назад +3

    The great thing about the TRRS jack of the Canon HV20 is that it also serves as an analog INPUT. =) I used this camera for a while for digitizing stuff from AV to DV. But it's not really all that good sadly. The analog video to digital converter is just an afterthought and not as good as for example a Canopus ADVC110 for example. But if you have nothing else, it does the job. The HV20 came with such a angled TRRS AV cable, like the one you found elsewhere with that broken white Chinch / RCA connector.

  • @ok-hd4so
    @ok-hd4so 10 месяцев назад +4

    i have no idea about any of this but im still gonna watch it.

    • @azjames8789
      @azjames8789 10 месяцев назад +4

      I understand. I never owned a computer until 2 years ago. I know nothing about computers. Especially the older computers and technology that VWestlife reviews but I still watch all the videos anyway. It's like an addiction. I wake up every Saturday morning eager to see a new video that he has put out regardless of what it is.

  • @bland9876
    @bland9876 10 месяцев назад +1

    Because of the way that TV near the end (he was just showing the component cables) was wired up It meant that you couldn't just use a double-sided 3.5 mm TRRS cable which I was waiting for you to eventually say you could use in some situation lol

  • @Renovatio2
    @Renovatio2 10 месяцев назад +3

    The next time I hear someone complain about HDMI or Displayport I'm sending them to this video.

    • @homuraakemi4559
      @homuraakemi4559 10 месяцев назад +1

      How hard can HDMI/DP be? You literally just plug them in!

    • @nikolay9584
      @nikolay9584 10 месяцев назад

      What can be worse of HDMI feature just to not working for unknown reason when pinout is certain and all wires are good? Or that autodetection madness when you must power on devices in right order to make HDMI output active at all? A lot of STBs keep HDMI off if powered before TV and they can't wake monitor up either.

  • @stereophonicstuff
    @stereophonicstuff 6 месяцев назад

    I wish this video existed back when I was just getting into Handycams and other equipment that used a 3.5mm AV jack; I can't tell you how many times I played the guessing game of which cable would work only to get a new one and have that one be incompatible too! Using a multimeter to figure out the pinout is something so simple and straightforward that it's almost too easy to overlook.

  • @RocketCityTech
    @RocketCityTech 10 месяцев назад +1

    The video content itself is so comical because you realize just how stupid all these different pinouts are. Great video that points out all the differences.

  • @rzpogi
    @rzpogi 10 месяцев назад +2

    In the Philippines, non-Japan/Europe spec devices have the Ground before the video. Oftentimes, devices sold here have L/R/V/G from top to bottom config for 3.5mm to rca cables.

  • @rossthompson1635
    @rossthompson1635 10 месяцев назад +1

    Wasn't expecting a recording of Match of the Day with Gary Lineker 😊 (famous UK TV programme that has been on the air since the mid 60s).

  • @Petertronic
    @Petertronic 10 месяцев назад

    I only occasionally had to use that type of a/v jack - I had no idea about the different standards, very useful video! I have a Chinese 500-in-1 game console with the smaller 2.5mm TRS a/v jack. I checked its cable (which I was careful not to lose) - tip is audio, ring is video, sleeve is ground.

  • @MusicAnthropology
    @MusicAnthropology 10 месяцев назад +1

    About 5 years ago I bought a Sony TV that one of the inputs was 3.5 composite audio/video. The TV did not come with the cable and Sony did not offer a cable that would work with the TV. Luckily I found a 3rd party website that did have the cable for it. And yes it was maddening to find the right cable it.

  • @BilisNegra
    @BilisNegra 10 месяцев назад +1

    Not using ground on sleeve on one of the most common kind of connector we come across in our life feels like outright electrical terrorism and that standards regulations have failed here. Imagine an RCA plug with reversed ground. Crazy, right? This is not much different! Making something standard looking capable of damaging a device should be subject to some kind of liability.

  • @ConsumerDV
    @ConsumerDV 10 месяцев назад +1

    TRRS connectors for mobile phones come in five kinds: LRGM (CTIA), LRMG (OMTP), MLRG, MRLG, GLRM ("M" stands for microphone). The last three are rare. For use in DVD players and camcorders they come in about seven types: RLGV, LRVG, VLRG, LVGR, LRGV, VRLG, RLVG ("V" for video). There are two popular ground locations: either the second ring or sleeve. As long as ground matches, other plugs can be rearranged accordingly and the cable will still work. I use a cable like this with my camcorder sending video over red connector, not yellow.

    • @t1m3f0x
      @t1m3f0x 10 месяцев назад

      Obviously MLRG, MRLG, GLRM would be near nonexistent, anyone who bought a phone with one of thous would warn everyone they knew not to buy it. MLRG, MRLG, GLRM would never have been accepted by consumers because they were not compatible with the existing standard for stereo audio. LRGM (CTIA) and LRMG (OMTP) were compatible with standard stereo headphones, which is why they were the only options that could ever be viable.

  • @sheik124
    @sheik124 10 месяцев назад +1

    As soon as you said _matching_ connectors with that first mono TRS cable, 20+ years of _never_ having tried switching the plugs flashed before my eyes and I suddenly felt ashamed to have ever called myself crafty. And I should've known too! Stereo video games that didn't have a mono mode + a mono TV (if you didn't have an adapter to combine L+R) would give interesting results and I loved messing around with it, so it's not like "plugging red into white" was a foreign concept to me...
    I've probably got a VIVO graphics card somewhere "with no cable" I can now get working...

  • @VandelayIndustries1982
    @VandelayIndustries1982 10 месяцев назад

    Great video. I came across this 19 years ago when I got the ipod video. They switched the ground and video to other cables so people couldn't copy it or use other cables. Pretty quickly we figured out to use a camcorder cable and swap red and yellow, saving us $50 on a rip off Apple cable

  • @Pwn3dbyth3n00b
    @Pwn3dbyth3n00b 10 месяцев назад +1

    This seems so frustrating. Thank god for modern standardization with HDMI and USB C

  • @jmp8678
    @jmp8678 10 месяцев назад +1

    Surprised and pleased to see Match of the Day and some dude celebrating a Vauxhall Corsa on that Iomega drive! Early 2000s UK at its best

  • @sternkrieger1950
    @sternkrieger1950 10 месяцев назад +4

    This issue would be solved if we had a database of all the 3.5mm A/V RCA output pinout layout of available devices, then every seller of 3.5mm A/V RCA cables additionally posts the pinout of the cables.
    Usually, sellers don't even post the pinout layout. They just state it's for a camcorder, you buy it out of a whim and it end up being the wrong pinout, even though you are using a camcorder. It's also impossible to find the pin out of every camcorder or other device too, so it's a bunch of trial and error with wasted money. Very frustrating!

  • @Lachlant1984
    @Lachlant1984 10 месяцев назад +1

    I have an Atari Retro Handheld game console thing, whose AV output is a 3.5 mm socket, the console did not come with a cable, and its user's guide did not say what type of cable you need to use, it just said order a cable from the manufacturer, who don't make that product anymore, what's more, they stopped making it soon after I received mine. Last year I borrowed some cables from my sister's boyfriend, and I eventually was able to get the console to work with my TV, so I took the bull by the horns and bought a TRRS cable on eBay. I believe I have to plug the red cable into the video input on my TV, and the yellow and while cables carry audio. I suspect a TRS cable would also work. This whole situation is just nuts, I wish Blaze Entertainment had included the appropriate cable with my console.

  • @bibasik7
    @bibasik7 10 месяцев назад +1

    The iBook did it right in my opinion.
    A standard TRS headphone jack is L/R/G, so if we keep the existing audio channels the same and keep the ground on the sleeve, we get L/R/V/G.
    The iPod's L/R/G/V pinout also keeps the standard headphone jack audio channels, so it wouldn't've been a bad idea if the iBook cable didn't already exist.

  • @noakeswalker
    @noakeswalker 10 месяцев назад

    What a mess ! I didn't realise there were TRRS connectors where ground wasn't the base sleeve, that's just going to be trouble somewhere along the line. I can believe that audio and video got all mixed up by some manufacturers though.... thanks for showing.

  • @max.brant4
    @max.brant4 3 месяца назад +1

    Hello VWestlife! I have a Canon FS200 Camcorder from 2009. It has a AV Out. It came with 2 AV Cables. One was Video with Stereo and the other is a Stereo cable for audio. The Video with Stereo cable did not work with the camera but the Stereo Audio Cable worked for Video on my 1999 CRT TV. The only thing is that the audio is mono, not Stereo. But my TV is Mono, so it's fine. Thanks for this video! I watched this before I tried my AV Cables.

  • @daytonagreg8765
    @daytonagreg8765 10 месяцев назад +1

    DUDE! You are a WIZARD my friend! Thank you! 🙏🙏🙏

  • @grimreboot
    @grimreboot 10 месяцев назад +1

    Thank you for the upload! 😊

  • @ultimatedarkkiller7215
    @ultimatedarkkiller7215 10 месяцев назад +3

    I bought a TRRS cable off aliexpress a year ago to plug a old CRT to a Android TV Box (which had a 3.5mm TRRS output), lucky me it worked at first, didn't know they never had a proper standard and I was just lucky it worked 🤣

  • @welovemrp00
    @welovemrp00 10 месяцев назад +1

    This explains so many headaches in the past. I thought was crazy

  • @blahfm
    @blahfm 10 месяцев назад +4

    These cables (if you can sort out the correct layout) are a very cheap way of connecting a mixer to your laptop for streaming! Usually you need to get an external soundcard for such things, but if you have a not so powerful laptop using yet another usb uses more of your laptops capability. However with this lead (and a few other leads like say a stereo female RCA to 3.5 headphone jack) you can connect your headphones and then have the other cable free to connect to a separate microphone if you do not want to use crappy inline microphones that are on most gaming headphones! Of course this only works if your laptop headphone jack is set up for the four pin layout, but it is an easy hack if you do not want to fork out a lot of money!

  • @nukfauxsho
    @nukfauxsho 10 месяцев назад +1

    I love your content. If tubi, pluto or freevee would add your content as a channel, i would be in heaven.