Smallant tears up on stream after explaining the PointCrow situation
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- Опубликовано: 26 май 2022
- Please do not harass anyone involved.
-PointCrow's side VOD: • Video
-SmallAnt's side VOD: • Video
Credit to crowant on YT for uploading the vods.
UPDATE: For why the links aren’t working read my reply on the pinned comment.
Many people are asking for a summary so I made one. it's probably not super accurate but i tried to cover as much as i could. SmallAnt and PointCrow started a friendly rivalry and collaborated in several videos. But when SmallAnt made a Pokémon video with him, they had a miscommunication. There was one rule in this Pokémon challenge which was “No Resetting unless you are completely soft locked or hunting for a legendary”. PointCrow and SmallAnt seemed to have different definitions of Soft Lock. PointCrow resetted in a few “soft locks” and SmallAnt edited in a part of his video saying “PointCrow resetted in a few sections that were not indeed softlocks” or something like that. This led to viewers constantly harassing PointCrow over that miscommunication. PointCrow was constantly being compared badly to SmallAnt. People were saying things to crow like “He’s a lesser version of SmallAnt” or “He’s just SmallAnt but he loses every time” because of that one video. PointCrow then asked SmallAnt if they could end the rivalry completely. SmallAnt then said he would do that. Then In a speedrun tournament stream a couple months later, it was a crowd control race meaning you could donate money to control the game. It was between a NRG member and a CLG member. The NRG member was PointCrow and the CLG member was Cheese. SmallAnt then donated to Cheese and controlled his game so that he would win. SmallAnt did his best to explain saying “He wasn’t donating to cheese so that crow would lose, he was donating to cheese so that Cheese/CLG would win. This made crow mad thinking ant donated to cheese so that crow would lose. He then continued to get hateful comments, and crow asked ant very seriously again to end the rivalry. Smant accepted that. But then they both released a video of the same game at basically the same timeline. This lead to more hateful comments towards both creators saying one of them is a copycat. It just kept getting worse from there. I can’t recap all of it, it was so much information but if you want the full story please watch both VODs.
The original vods were taken down (see my reply to this comment for why) and unfortunately as of right now there are no vods on YT of them. I will edit this comment once someone uploads the vods.
CrowAnt’s original vods (broken links, removed from YT)
-PointCrow’s side VOD: ruclips.net/video/yAAswuARV5A/видео.html
-SmallAnt's side VOD: ruclips.net/video/9qnC5wIC6jQ/видео.html
Credit to crowant on YT for uploading the vods.
Good on you mate, thanks for not putting anything out of context 👍 finnaly someone who isnt doing it for the drama
can you link the vod itself? can't find it with just the channel
I would Never do that! There my fav RUclipsrs and streamer
I've wanted the full context for this ever since someone on one of their community posts told me they weren't friends anymore.
Saying It was a "friendly rivalry" is a stretch. A very huge one.
They're both talking about how being a copycat is bad, but when I see one content creator doing the same challenge as another one I am usually very happy about it.
Srsly, smh 🤦
The whole copycat thing started as a joke between the two. But overtime, new viewers didn't understand that and took it too literally, which eventually led to the toxicity toward PC where everyone thinks he is copying Ant just because. Which is dumb. They should be happy that friends who are content creators are making similar content. The toxicity is 200% the viewers' fault
If anything, doing the same thing should be considered a result of inspiration from someone else. I didn’t know about this whole copycat thing going on until now.
@@revine9243 I guess being THE original thinker has its place in pioneering. And maybe some fans takes it to an ego place of "If the content creator that i'm watching is the first to do this idea, he's a better creator"
I always interpreted it as a friendly rivalry, not genuine malice
When the entire fan base on both sides are mostly a younger audience, and both streamers are relatively "young", I think it's not impossible to see something like that happen. I hope scars can heal eventually.
I get if they don't collab much ever again, that's understandable, but I would hate for there to be any lasting resentment between once close friends.
@@micahphilson Yeah, that's the main thing for me, as well. I would not mind at all and could totally understand if they'd rather not collab on videos and stuff together, anymore, but it'd be so sad to see their friendship torn apart because of this.
I really do hope they can patch things up in the future. I loved watching them both and I never really saw them as competition. They are both awesome creators in their own right.
@@micahphilson it seems as though pcrow has a lot of lasting resentment
Missed what happened?
It sucks for us who actually enjoy them having similar content. Just because of some insensitive fucking idiots the majority of the audience who enjoy the races/similar ideas between channels won't be able to see all the cool content. Yeah they both have awesome content on their own but the several races were a highlight for me and many others too because the dynamic between these two was just so entertaining to watch.
So true, I love both of their yt content, but it's sad that ppl are stupid and don't know what's a joke
I've always looked at it like a friendly rivalry.
true
@@ChuggaaPyroJr thats what it was until people took it too far
True, but this isn’t about us. I personally don’t want to get the entertainment of them being together in a video if neither of them enjoy the experience.
I didn’t even know anything happened but seeing smallant cry like that really fucking sucks, been watching him for about a year I think and got back into the pokemon games because of him. I hope things get better.
Same here with pkmn
Same man I had no idea
They're millionaires they'll be fine
@@katacutie all the money in the world can’t solve all the problems.
@@katacutie yea because money determines weather or not how happy you are huh?
This week on "Stupid fans mess up a perfectly fine friendship because they don't have the brain capacity to understand jokes"
Truly sad.
No pointcrow did that
@@yguy1232we have one of the offenders…
@@you_nerd_neck4825 not at all. You'd have to be ignorant to blame "the fans", every streamer gets hatemail. Point crow just decided to blame Smallant for that instead of understanding that it comes with the turf. Pointcrow's response to this whole situation was petty and pathetic.
ok offender, whatever you say... Let me guess, you also go outside? Sure@@yguy1232
I'm glad a video like this exists solely so the RUclips side can get what's going on.
That being said, I hope to god it doesn't go beyond this, the last thing this situation needs is to be turned into a RUclips drama.
Yeah I had no idea about any of this as a RUclips viewer. I just watched the two VODS from both of them and it’s really sad to see how this all came to be. I feel like we can all relate to the feelings that they both had and it really sucks to see honest understandings and miscommunications lead to such a painful fallout between them. I really hope this is patched up in the future but tbh I don’t really know it will. I hope at least PointCrow and Smallant are able to at least move forward without any more drama. I genuinely feel bad for them both.
@@moonstruck7055 what did happen?
@@timerr4446 watch the vods for full context, but basically smallant ended up painting pointcrow in a negative light jokingly and that caused alot of toxicity. Crow talked to smant about it on some level but beyond an initial disclaimer smant didn't do much. Also alot of beef on the business side like smant doing the hgss map randomizer before crow when he meant to do it first.
Too late, it's probably going to happen either way.
I remember Eric talking about all this during his subathon a while back, and I was kinda shocked that I couldn't find anyone else talking about it anywhere. I even tried asking Reddit and Twitter. Nothing. I didn't think I'd ever see a Tanner response since I figured they wanted to keep it all like behind the scenes. Anyway, wishing them both the best and I hope they can move past this.
god at this point i just feel terrible for both of them - i know some pple are saying that pc is acting childish about this, but bear in mind this is something that must've taken much longer than just a couple months. shit adds up over time. but i also think the miscommunication on both sides is just. man.
honestly, it really sucks to see a friendship like this get broken.
Shit adds up. Doesnt mean it isnt incredibly childish
Ant seems genuinely apologetic though, and crows response is just accusing and villainizing him, he doesn’t apologise once even though he is also at fault. You kinda have to admit, blocking and banning someone on every conceivable platform and then proceeding to blame then for not trying to fix things is extremely childish
Wait what happened between Crow and Ant?
@@spike4876 did not know he did that. thats uhh… yeah..
@@spike4876 You have to take into account how PointCrow views this. We don’t know what triggered this for pointcrow, but once you’ve gotten into the mindset that someone has hurt you, it’s hard to break that mindset, and it begins to warp how you perceive everything from that person. It’s not being childish. It’s actually what you would expect from a psychological standpoint. PointCrow has been hurt. He’s trying to take steps to prevent being hurt again. That’s what our brains do. That’s what’s kept our species alive.
I didn't know this was happening at all or the story behind it before I read the pinned comment. I actually enjoyed their content together. It really stings and hurts to see Ant cry like this since he's usually the Happy and memey guy and made all of us smile with him. I'm sorry Ant and Crow I hope all this drama will be healed soon and maybe one day you two can work together again. For now we shall wait.
I hate it when people make it there mission in life to hate on someone when we are all trying to just get to tomorrow this is why people are the dumbest thing to walk the earth that includes me btw
I think their both in the wrong Smallant accidentally not giving credit, and point crow thinking it's all to undermine him. And there were numerous outside factors that contributed, like Adrienne not telling point crow that he gave small and the randomizer early.
It makes me so sad to see how this thing has turned out, cause their happy rivalry was so much fun as someone who loves both of their videos. When they both did challenges the other came up with, it felt like an extra fun way to engage with the challenge itself, and certainly not to see which one of them was "better". I hope they can find ways to stream/play together that are healthy and safe for Crow, because neither of them deserve to have to deal with people taking things the absolute wrong way. 💔
Crow is a baby Lol
@@Quinners08 Ladies and gentlemen, the dumb AF crowd ruining friendly stuff into toxic mess we were talking about. Behold!
Just so everyone knows, Eric recently did this stream where he lets his friends roast him and during QTCinderella’s roast, she mentions him and SmallAnt at one point and he actually found it funny. He later explained in his Discord that it was all fair game and SmallAnt and him are now on better terms. I’m really glad they were able to handle it better without the pressure of publicity. I probably still wouldn’t expect them to collab anytime soon but that’s where they’re at now.
Thanks for informing me, I will make a new video regarding this.
Hey hey guess what
both of these people are genuinely great people as content creators and seeing this makes me really sad since I personally like watching content from both sides no matter the date and it will hurt me a bit on the inside just because every time I watch one of these people's videos, I sometimes think "I want to see Pointcrow/Smallant do this too" but now I'll just remember this and think "but what if it would still be possible"
same, people keep taking someone's side but i just wanna see them together again
Watching this after knowing they've made amends kills me. It undoubtedly hurt on both sides, and I'm glad they've made amends and begun doing stuff together again.
These are two of my favorite creators on both platforms and fuck it’s actually heartbreaking and I don’t even know either guy personally. Smallant sounds so genuine, and I hope he is. But pointcrow refused his apology. I hope Tanner can move on from this quickly, and I hope Eric can forgive him.
Smallant isn't entitled to Crow's forgiveness just because he cried a little
@@StarbitO did I say he was? The answer is no
They enjoyed thier time as friends but know its over and lets leave it to them to decide what they wanna do
@@potatojohnny3898 agreed.
Anyone care to explain what happened?
For me it was just that they had similar content, doing speedruns with goofy rules and challenges, and if they both did the same one you saw the focused speedrunner side from Small Ant and the more goofy challenge runner with Pointcrow, but they both were the perfect personalities for these types, and that combination of both of them was always fun to see how they overcame certain hurdles differently.
The drama part I don't get, they were playfully being rivals like almost any competitive video game video out there, and they worked well together, but I guess some fans got out of control and took it too seriously, too many toxic people out there. Neither of them are the bad guy, this came from a small group of fans who forget how to let things go.
This comes from the snowflakes. Like you stated, they're friends, doing races against eachother in friendly rivalry. People can't take the fact that they're not doing ONLY original content never seen before. Guess what people, there's only so many things people will watch and the entertainer enjoys doing. If you don't like what a creator is doing or you don't like a certain video they're doing, just don't watch the video or creator! It's that simple! Don't hurt the people who are trying to make your boring ass life better!
Jesus Christ, I didn't think it was possible. The cancer levels of Twitch chat is to the roof.
Twitch chat is less of a problem most of the time, its the youtube side that gives most of the hate towards pointcrow
@@Slecc0911 watching the chat during the pointcrow vod was painful :/
@@IceBen4444 That moment where chat literally told PointCrow to continue playing the clip until it ends and him just letting it play was so uncomfortable. Hell, just the chat at that time was so noisy and toxic.
@@daytripespresso That was a bit funny on a meta level, he kept playing, it ended like expected, then another iffy thing came up. Ty chat, proved your "point".
I watch most streams with chat bar closed because of this. I cannot stand majority of people that sit in big named streamer's chats. so toxic
Wow considering creator drama this is the most cordial comment section I’ve ever seen all things considered , as a casual fan of the speed running community I hope all of you the best and especially these guys in figuring it out , y’all just keep being supportive to each other and these creators .
I was there when this happened and it hurt because I could tell he was genuine. I’ve been in a situation for like a year now where every indirect interaction with someone is torture because it’s inevitable and you have no direct contact with them, so I know how much it hurts, and god help me he’s not faking it.
Touch grass
Jonah???? My guy?!??
Can you explain what happened? I'm only a youtube viewer so I have no idea what the drama is about, but I follow the youtube accounts of both Pointcrow and Smallant.
@@andrewryan9087 so basically some smant viewers think that pc is just a copycat and always loses loser and hate on him for months, and pc even had to ban the word smallant in chat so that no one can say the situation, idk about their friendship now, I am just basing this as my current understanding
@@shenzhong3078 oh so basically bullsht ok cool thanks
In my personal opinion, I don’t think taking “sides” here is the right call. Sallant has made some mistakes, Pointcrow has made some mistakes, and it sometimes how it goes. But hearing someone own up to their mistakes, that’s beautiful. It takes a lot of effort to push past one’s own pride and take responsibility. I have mad respect for Smallant for claiming responsibility
no pointcrow is just a big cry baby. Smallant made no mistakes but point acts like a 4 year old
The only people I'm blaming are the toxic fans
uh no, neither of them made mistakes. The 10 year old children looking for drama on the internet are the ones who made the mistakes. It's simple
I really like Smallant, don’t care for Pointcrow, and you’re completely right. It’s just an unfortunate situation between friends that immature people on the internet made into a big issue, just sucks for both of them
@@therednitro7 no... Pointcrow definitely made mistakes... And refuses to admit to them... Literally lied and attacked SmallAnt repeatedly. Blocked him then got annoyed when he tried to get in contact. Wanted space but then got angry that SmallAnt gave it to him... He's a hypocrite and a liar
I randomly got to tune in to crow’s stream about the situation from start to finish one night and I feel for both of them. It’s a shame crow keeps getting harassed because I don’t see how people could call him a copy at at all. They have similar content sometimes but they also have a wide range of content as well. In the niche genre they both fall into, there’s gonna be overlap lol
Not enough info about that stuff, but if you cool with a dude and people from your audience harassing him it means that you did a mistake and you should address the issue and take responsibility. When dude just wanted to enjoy and helped you with content but find himself in that situation it suck.
@@holypopy you cant really just take all the responsibility for other people’s actions just because they’re your fans, he can’t control them only apologise to the guy and ask the fans to stop
I hope them the best in life, it's sad to see breaks but helpful for people to grow. I hope them both a wonderful life
It was strange to hear that Eric was getting so much hate because I never saw him as a copy cat, I also never watched point crow as consistently as I do smallant. Watching Eric talk about this on the VOD hurt a little and showed me that they both did wrong but Eric was just kinda saying everything was tanners fault and (to my recollection) not showing certain clips that would show that tanner didn’t do this intentionally (i.e. this one) and had to have chat tell him to watch more of certain parts of small ants VOD. And knowing how I reacted to an event (not like this just trying to relate) I reacted the same way, saying that everything that other person did was to hurt me and now that I’ve healed I see that they did not and it was just a terrible situation that should’ve never happened but unfortunately did. I’m not blaming Eric or Smallant for anything, I just can see them from either side and hope that no one takes sides super hard because Smallant being a larger creator and being involved with so many others and same with Pointcrow now, they could lose out on a lot of opportunities
if you're making a joke at someone's expense over and over, at some point it stops being a joke. that's compounded by the fact that both have some overlapping audience many of whom just copied smallant's words
i can't say i like pointcrows streamer persona (too much rage gaming) and i exclusively watch smallant (between the two of them), and i knew nothing about this drama, but even as a casual observer, smallant's jokes esp about the pokemon thing, hollow knight, celeste, etc was going too far. smallant himself started these jokes, and he chose to, rather than keep them private in-jokes, publicly joke on platforms with millions of followers. and the jokes just didn't let up for months. I'm not surprised it ended up like this.
Something to always remember when playing with fires like jabs is to always be conscious that your funny jabs never outweigh your sincere compliments. If you only make the jokes and never be genuine it starts to feel like your jokes are genuine.
Tbh the worst part of the entire thing is that smant never got to play the Zelda multiplayer with crow. The 2 of them playing it together would have been such great content
I would've liked to see PointCrow playing Odyssey Hide-and-seek with everyone.
There's still a chance now.
Going into watching pointcrow’s side(I watched SmallAnt’s side first) I wasn’t really biased towards one side, I really just thought that Smant messed up and should work to try and fix it. However, the thing that ultimately makes me favor smallant in this situation(not saying he’s in the right, because he is definitely in the wrong here; whether it was intentional or not) is how they both went about these streams, you can believe smant’s side isn’t genuine if you want to, that’s fine; the thing that doesn’t sit right with me is the little inserts Eric does towards the end of his stream addressing the issue. You cannot argue that throughout the whole stream Smant makes it an emphasized point that the point of him addressing the situation is NOT to attack pointcrow but address the situation that was going on between them. That was however not the case on Eric’s side, instead he puts Smant on full blast by calling into question his character at the end, saying that he’s fearful for everyone that Smant interacts with going forwards. No matter how you look at it, that’s actively trying to damage a career, that’s trying to slander a reputation and for that, I just can’t take his side in this. He might of said not to attack SmallAnt afterwards but that means nothing after a statement like that.
Just for reference, I watch both content creators both on yt and on twitch when I get time(honestly feel a little less like watching pcrows stuff now which kinda sucks).
Absolutely agree, he was blowing it out of proportion when small ant was being more rational. I watched PC’s first and then small ant, and some of pointcrow’s slander and reasoning was incredibly weird. I think it was just a series of miscommunication
Fr, if PC knows "many more stories like this" he should share them and expose SA. Otherwise it's just empty words and slander. Really not cool
That's an attempt at defamation innit?
Yep, I agree wholeheartedly with this. I fully believe he didn't sleep for 30 hours because he couldn't sleep for the anxiety he had for that stream. PC the whole stream is just attacking Smant, while Smant is just trying to make up for a few small issues in the beginning of their careers. Dude literally broke down crying at the end because of the manipulation and damage that PC is causing.
this breaks my heart. pcrow and smant are both wonderful streamers and people, and it really makes me sad to see that this happened to them. I wish them both nothing but happiness
All this venom over Pokémon? I’m seriously disappointed in both communities’ “members” for doing this.
I hope that both Ant and Crow can reconcile and reconnect at some point.
What happened?
@@yeetimusprime415 I don’t know the full story but I’m pretty sure it started in one of SmallAnts videos where they were doing a pokemon randomizer race and they weren’t allowed to reset unless they were softlocked, PointCrow reseted in situations that weren’t a softlock and SmallAnt pointed it out (Jokingly) but SmallAnts fans went and harrassed PointCrow about it, and it all kinda went downhill from there
@@swaggyperson8181 And to add on to this comment, PointCrow was already getting harrassed by SmallAnt's community already for their friendly rivalry, because people were taking it too far. SmallAnt did repeatedly tell his viewers not to harass PointCrow, but they still continued anyways.
It way more then a pokemon game. The game just speed things up a bit, (I think. Dont trust my words conpletly)
Yeah this is just genuinely sad. It's a game they both clearly love, and the dumb fans with NO brain just continued to make the situation worse.
I really loved the very few videos they did together and I hope the problem gets sorted out
This whole thing really sucks. Admittingly, I don't watch either of them live, cuz I'm often really busy, but I love Tanner's content and I'm so glad I found his channel because it introduced me to Eric's channel and Linkus' channel, which likely caused the YT algorithm to show me DougDoug's channel. These guys are all some of my favorite content creators. Ultimately, I do think Smant is more in the right. I think it's good that he was willing to admit some of the things he had done and how he had hurt Eric, and ultimately, he did his best to fix that relationship. I understand Eric's decision to not accept the apology; he was hurt and he felt Tanner did not care that he was hurt. And there were some things that Tanner did that were legitimately wrong. But it felt like Eric's reaction stream just brushed off everything that Tanner said in his stream. I'm not gonna stop watching Eric because of this or send him any messages/comments/emails accusing him of being unwilling to try and fix things, cuz that's the kind of toxicity that caused all this in the first place. But it is sad knowing that 2 of my favorite content creators have broken off and will likely never collab again.
This is exactly how I feel. I understand both of them but also wish this hadn't happened.
I do agree that Eric being completely unwilling to try and mend the relationship is unreasonable, but this has been going on for so long. I feel like the blame mostly lies with Tanner because he should've recognized how much he was tarnishing Eric's image. A bit of friendly jabbing here are there is fine, but when you look through the map randomizer race Tanner was being incredibly toxic the entire time which only fueled the back in forth in the chat. I mean, just look at the comments on that video. Because of that, I'm a bit upset that you seem to be placing a majority of the blame on Eric when he is clearly the victim here. Just to reiterate, I'm not saying that Eric is free of blame, he definitely isn't helping the situation, but it's unreasonable to say that most of it is Eric's fault.
I get if they don't collab much ever again, that's understandable, but I would hate for there to be any lasting resentment between once close friends.
I wish this wasn't taken so personally, and I hope they're able to make amends together.
@@Coinflxp First of all, I don't want to start an argument, as that adds nothing constructive to this situation or to this conversation. So, I'm gonna do my best to explain why I feel the way I do, and after this I'm probably not gonna reply anymore.
Now, I'm not saying Tanner did nothing wrong. I do think he definitely went too far during that race. But even still, overall he made an effort to try to fix things every step of the way. That's what bothers me about Eric's reaction stream. He keeps making Tanner out to be the bad guy and putting pretty much all the blame on him, which is really disingenuous. Tanner provides pages and pages of evidence showing his willingness to compromise in order to fix their relationship. Eric shows *some* evidence, but for a lot of his more serious arguments, he shows very little relevant evidence, if any. If Eric is correct and Tanner really is the manipulating and uncaring person Eric makes him out to be, then he did a horrible job presenting his evidence.
But at the end of the day, all of us throwing our two cents into the situation is rather pointless. The damage had already been done, and I don't think it's changing anytime soon. I just hope we can all agree that, regardless of whether you think Eric or Tanner carry more of the blame, the party carrying the *most* blame are the random people on the internet taking a minor rivalry between two friends and blowing it up to such a degree that it's ruined their relationship.
@@lords_gamer1829 yeah, you make a lot of really good points.
I feel like the biggest issue is that Tanner is analytical and Eric is emotional. Tanner sees things from a very analytical, fact-oriented way, and I feel like that perspective of his leads to him missing a lot of Eric's intentions behind his words. He sees the words but misses the deeper meaning behind them, and it leads to Eric feeling frustrated that he's not being heard (which he feels is intentional), and Tanner not seeing the connections between things and being frustrated because he simply doesn't get how things are entwined like that because it doesn't occur to him how important certain things are.
I get why Eric might see things as malicious, but I've always been told the saying, "Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence". Tanner, very clearly, does not understand Eric or his perspective well. I would say that doesn't seem to be out of malice but rather out of a genuine place of ignorance. I wish I could get the two of them in a call together so they could work on their friendship with affirmative statements and "I" statements, rather than "you" statements, which seem to be what's been primarily stated. Tanner has been very vague about his feelings, which doesn't help Eric, because Eric needs to hear that affirmation of value, of friendship, to know he's important and that him and his perspectives are being considered. On the other hand, Eric needs to better express how it impacts him in their conversations, rather than relying more on "you" statements about Tanner's actions, focusing on the "I" statements of how it impacts him, his mental state, and what things he would like to see going forward.
While Eric may think he was clear, that the rivalry needed to end and such, Tanner clearly did not feel the same about the clarity of the statements, so he asked for specific, measurable, actionable things, and he was given the information of "give him time and space", which did not seem to work as intended, and instead things only festered. Tanner, as a person, needs those clear directions so that he can act upon them, or not act, as necessary.
Let this be a lesson to all of you in the comments: be clear with your friends and loved ones. If you need something to change, talk to them. If they care about you, they will listen, but they may not understand how you communicate it. If they ask for more information, or if they still seem unclear when you feel you've been perfectly clear, try finding a different approach, a different way to phrase it. We all process information differently, and sometimes just changing how you say something can be enough to let someone understand what you're saying.
Great analysis
I am just curious… are you a psychology major because that was a very profound analysis of the situation.
This should be top comment.
Genuine great comment and takes here, thanks for sharing.
Tanner also has ADHD which could also contribute to the misunderstanding.
I only bring this up because I'm also someone with ADHD and only since I've learned about it over the last couple years, that I've been able to see things differently. My mind is wired differently.
Because of that, good communication is an absolute must, and clear concise wording is important.
I kinda forget where I was going with this so I'll leave it as it is now 😅
Seing this on stream made me pretty emotional. I hope they can go back to being good friends again.
Just wanna say I love both SmallAnt and PointCrow's content - they are both amazing creators! I've loved the collab stuff you've done together as well.
I loved seeing them have similar challenges. It fun seeing how they do it differently
I'm the only person here that is clueless on this whole situation
no im here too just trying to find out if theres any more abt ludwig ragging on pointcrows subathon and found out there was drama
If you don't know, Pointcrow was bullied by Smallants fans and Smallant tried to work with him to stop it but Crow started blaming Smaant for it and Miscommunication sorta skyrocketing the whole thing. In the end it seems Smallant was just trying to make up while Pointcrow is adamant on making Smallant a villian.
@@Darknova67 Thanks for explaing that. I'm not someone who watches twitch a lot so i've been lost.
Nope, a few seconds ago watched the VOD.
@@Darknova67 …holy shit
When I first started watching the kinds of content they both make, they kinda blended together in my head. Nowadays I mostly watch smant because I prefer his personality, but if it's about being called copycats; fuck off. There isn't a monopoly on a type of content. Anyone can make similar stuff, and I appreciate that pcrow made stuff similar for me to watch if smant didn't go too in depth.
I see this video is a year old already, idk what the status is now, but I would love to see them together. They are my favorite rivals, they fill each other in so well.
I love these guys so much im sad this was going on behind the scenes for so long. I feel exactly like ant honestly, making mistakes and hurting somebody because of them and trying to make it better but ultimately failing. Its something him and i definitely both need to work on. I hope they collaborate again at some point.
I feel like smallant is a good person with good intentions, but has made so many wrong decisions and is directly linked with so much of pointcrow's stress that it's not hard to see why he would interpret everything smallant does in such a negative light.
Yeah, smallant fucked up at the start and took things too far and (seemingly) unintentionally fed the toxicity. After that, it seems like from the stress and anexity, pointcrow just started equating smallant to the toxicity and started seeing everything he was doing in the worst possible light while not communicating that well what he actually needed out of smallant. Unless the other people that pointcrow claims are also effected by smallant come out too, it really seems like it is just both of them not being on the same page with everything after the race. I honestly hope Pointcrow gets mental professional help because it really seemed like no matter who's narrative is right, he's not doing good rn
Very true. But I don’t think PointCrow is in the right either. He’s contradicting himself in saying “I asked him several times to leave me alone” but also saying “It was HIS job to reach out and fix things.”
They’re both to blame, imo. But at the heart of it are the people who put others down in the comments and on social media
@@tateallen9972 completely agree I think it just needs time for the dust to settle and for them to both calm down a bit, and then reach out and communicate more effectively. they're both clearly good people so I hope this gets resolved for them.
@@alexvickrey Absolutely. Separating is the healthiest thing they can do right now. And who knows, maybe a couple years from now, they’ll forgive each other
@Bobbybob basically Eric is just saying Tanner would take things too far himself and instigate his audience and whatnot. I strongly disagree personally, I think he's always been clear about a 0 bullying tolerance and that all teasing is done in good fun, if Eric felt like he was getting uncomfortable with it himself he should have said something sooner. basically bad communication on both sides. I hope they made up someday because as usual this is just a result of toxic fans.
Man, I really hate that for them. I love them both and I know they love each other. I sincerely hope they can work past this
I actually love both of you guys and I'm so happy to see you thrive❤️
I didn't know that this was even a thing and I'm really upset that so many people are focused on hateful comments in a section of RUclips where collaboration is always a fun and new thing to watch.
My opinion of this situation (which I know doesn't matter), is that what PointCrow went through sucks, it truly does. However he didn't communicate enough with Smallant to fix it, which Smallant would have done anything to fix. A lot of the issues PointCrow had were genuine mistakes on Smallant's part and he wasn't aware it was crossing a line until after the fact. The whole softlock issue in the pokemon race seems more like friendly prodding than a rivalry (in my experience you can't genuinely call yourselves friends if you can't handle some light jabs. Otherwise you're just colleagues!). Once PointCrow blocked Smallant, I feel that only made things worse. Since they could no longer communicate, anything Smallant did in the same area as PointCrow was taken as a deliberate attempt to hurt PointCrow when it wasn't. It's impossible to avoid stepping on eggshells when the entire floor is eggshells.
It also bothers me that PointCrow refuses to give any ground in taking blame for escalating the situation. He dragged on Smallant for taking it public when literally the day before, PointCrow was the one to bring it public and berrated Smallant for not addressing it publicly (even though Smallant had been told to give him space). There is literally nothing Smallant can do right in PointCrow's eyes.
In the end, I am sorry for what happened to PointCrow, however I can't feel sorry for what came later as he turned inward and let it fester, making everything Smallant did about himself.
Edit: please note that I have no intention of harassing either of them, and this comment was purely for this comment section alone. This issue has been bothering me greatly and I needed somewhere to weigh in so I could leave it in the past.
Yeah, the whole “don’t talk to me” followed by “why didn’t you talk to me” thing really bothers me too.
At this point, the only healthy thing for them to do is to separate themselves from each other and move on
This
@@anjafrohlich1170 there absolutely are! And it seems likely that Erik would benefit from that sort of friendship. But it seems like once again, that need was communicated. Talking about this shit is hard, I’m not even saying it’s something Erik did wrong, but I don’t know how Tanner could have picked up on it when Erik would make jabs back.
I agree here. It's a situation of Pointcrow either not understanding or ignoring the concept that any issues with a relationship are never completely one sided. Sure Smant made some mistakes, which Smant owned up to, but that doesn't mean all the blame falls on Smant's shoulders, and even if they never become friends again, I hope Pointcrow eventually understands this and decides to at least forgive and forget if nothing else.
@@tateallen9972 For me personally that was more of another bit of miscommunication rather than anyone being in the right or wrong of that specific situation. A lot of people in chat (at least during Pointcrow's VOD when he was trying to explain it) seemed to interpret Pointcrow saying he needed space very weirdly (to me at least) since they all seemed to think that Pointcrow was still going by it after he unblocked Smallant when to me that very clearly was not the case.
The "don't talk to me" thing was lifted when Pointcrow unblocked him so that Smallant could reach out to ask to have a chat at some point and Pointcrow agreed, for me that would be a clear signifier that the "don't talk to me" bit was either over or at least being temporarily suspended. In other words for me it would be a clear indicator that Smallant could reach out to start the chat for the healing process, because Pointcrow had already done his bit of opening up the doorway for conversation by unblocking.
For others though, Smallant probably included, that may not have been clear and Smallant may have been like "okay, I'll let him come to me in his own time after the subathon, so I'm not springing anything on him too soon after he's opened up and unblocked me". At least that's how I interpreted it, but a lot of people interpret things differently.
I watched Smants VOD first, and I like to get both sides of stories, so I went to watch Crow’s side and he started saying Smant was Manipulative and I just noped out of there and am instead electing to forget about the whole situation entirely
Made me tear up
Oh man I hope they can become friends again, I really liked seeing them collab and do similar challenges!
Aww man, had no idea this was happening :((
I like them both as content creators and I loved the videos they did together! It must have been really stressful for the both of them considering they’re friends…
I hope this situation dies down quickly and things are okay again :(
I had a session with my team in one of my previous jobs about conflict management and it literally changed my life.
It's sad to see this escalated to this point where both creators I really like are undergoing so much stress when it could be solved so much earlier if they'd sat down and were clear about actions to improve the relationship.
Point Crow is definitely on his right to be mad but leaving others to figure out how to make it better often doesn't work. You need to be clear and say if situation x comes up again I want you to do y.
No one sees the world from your perspective you're the only one that can provide them with that.
probably the only sensible comment I've seen so far. it's true only you can advocate for yourself, it's not fair but is anything really
A week late but..
It's also a misjudgment of responsibility. Why would Pointcrow expect small ant to have so much power as to fix his issue cold turkey for him. If we assume smant to be a good friend then he would do what he could. But there are limits. There should have been some more teamwork to figure out a way to continue a healthy relationship in the public eye. I don't want to hate on crow but it's hard to expect small ant to act perfectly when what crow wanted wasn't outlined perfectly. To tie into what you said.
Smant doesn't seem to be the guy to throw a drowning friend back overboard. But he also knows his niche very well. Crow needed to realize that either Smant would have to berate his entire community constantly for harassing crow or do what he tried and give a non jarring "don't harrass him" a few times a week and when nesessary. Smants channel is fun loving and joke filled and I even felt like I was in the wrong when smant would tell his community to lay off his friend. (I hardly ever post on any RUclips channel, let alone chat on twitch). It's not good for viewership and without an ultimatum I don't think smant would ever thing to go so far. Even to appease his friend.
It's impossible to cure a younger audience of anonymous unregulated behavior as they don't see the severity of their actions and don't respond to vocal pleas the same way well adjusted people do. This seems obvious to me but maybe it isn't.
Again, I don't think Pointcrow is evil but I do think he made decisions before asking somebody close to him about it. He needed to take a step back and ask why he felt the way he did/does. *Before* acting hypocritically. Reparations are never made with blind love. He dug his own grave of drama and unless he comes to terms with it, I don't think anybody can fix this for them. So it probably won't be fixed.
Watched smants stream fully, partially watched pcs cuz it's 8 am and I have yet to sleep.
My take overall, smant made some bad calls and some trip ups. Honestly you can't expect anyone to never make mistakes, he fucked up with crediting pc, and crow got really pissed at him, and I mean, after he had literally asked him to do it the night before, that's understandable. However, after an hour long talk where he likely apologized, and the fact that he never made that mistake again, I think it's fucked up to hold that against him for a whole ass year. It's just not healthy in a friendship to hold grudges after you already settled things.
Also, many many of the things that pc wanted from smant, he just never told him. Smant in dms had asked repeatedly what ACTIONS he should take to make things right. He was still offering to do what pc wanted to make things right. Pc just told him to be better, like? What? Better? That's just so vague, he's actually on some tsundere behavior. In his video, smant offers to take down all vids with pc, crow basically says he wants the videos down but he doesn't want to tell smant to delete them? Like what? He's just so confusing with the things he says.
He also blatantly lies a good amount of times saying smant made things public when he had already talked about issues he's had with smant in 4 separate streams, where he name calls smant, I guess that's not public enough for him. He mentions that smant should have contacted him about things during a period where he had smant blocked, and he also lies and says he'd told smant to call him when he had said he'd call smant and smant was waiting for pc to call due to the current tension between them.
I think the reasons behind pc's motives are pretty petty, he does say that smant lies about his botw video, and for that one he could telling the truth, there's not enough evidence to prove whether it's true or false, but most of his other claims are overexaggerated or just lies.
I personally think the reason he didn't wanna squash the beef is cuz smant played the randomizer he was paying to develope, and saying that if a mod or randomizer becomes public, and pc was still developing his own ver of that thing , smant would play the publicized version. I think smant is perfectly reasonable, but pc very clearly said that was a red flag for him.
Ultimately it was a matter of crow not saying what he really wanted, and smant not remembering every conversation he'd had with crow.
Also just finished the Smant stream. I thought the HG/SS randomizer was petty on Smant's part but that's about it. I had seen the random race video that Crow was continuously bringing up and had no idea that was the video he was talking about. Like Smant never straight out called him a cheater and it was a joke in the video but Crow took it to heart since some randoms were saying it?
I have only watched Crow's videos if they were with Smant and have started catching up on Smant streams through the VOD channel. I've only ever seen their "rivalry" as banter. Smant does it with several people. I can only see someone extremely new sending hate to Crow since it's pretty obvious that he and Smant were friends.
Pretty sure it's mainly a case of Crow growing resentful of seeing Smant's name brought up and maybe over his success. That's how I kinda see it but I'm not Crow so I can't know for sure.
@@TheMichaelmyth Crow also brings up that Smant does this (aggressive banter) with a lot of people, too, but it's clear the others don't take it to heart
Its pretty weird. Someone makes the randomizer mod for a game before Pointcrow and sends it to one of his favorite streamers to play. Would've been really interesting if that guy sent the mod to Atrioc or someone else, cuz PC doesn't have a monopoly on map randomizers
Their dynamic was nice to watch, I can't believe this happened. I hope for the best for both of them.
i think pointcrow had valid reasons to be upset and smallant undeniably handled aspects of this situation poorly, but I was really angry with pointcrow when he insinuated that this was emotional manipulation/not genuine. Having been in a similar situation, this isnt a fucking act. my heart broke for ant when i saw this on stream and i genuinely almost cried. its a messy situation overall but i 100% believe pointcrow is unreasonable for not at the very least acknowledging that ant is sorry and didnt intentionally hurt him. he doesnt have to still be friends with him but hes still treating him like a fucking villain when discussing this with his audience and thats unfair.
I mostly agree. I don't blame Pcrow much for being so angry, he's been under a lot of stress and its clearly taken a huge toll on his mental abilities, but smallant seems to have been confused the whole time and it seems as though they really liked each other as business friends from the start. I think smallant was heavily caught off guard when pcrow cut off ties from him, and smallant took a huge mental toll knowing he had lost a real friend. This stream was clearly genuine but I can't blame pointcrow for seeing it like that either though. He seems to genuinely think that smallant is evil, and that he tries to hurt others, so this isn't that far a stretch from it. I am definitely not blaming either entirely though
I definitely agree that this isn't an act. I've been through plenty of manipulation want this ain't it
Crying or saying you’re sorry doesn’t make you genuine. Changing yourself when you’re asked to is. He didn’t, and it’s too late to apologize. Even if his words were sincere, his efforts weren’t. That’s his fault, not Eric’s.
Apologizing doesn’t work if you don’t actually try to do what you failed before successfully. Tanner knew what was going on but didn’t address it on a real stream until Eric had already had enough. You can’t expect someone to be patient for you to apologize and make things right.
Eric was right - apologies without effort are nothing but manipulation. It’s something I’ve personally struggled with, and I’ve fought with my family constantly over it. Apologizing and then making an effort is admirable. Apologizing and doing what you did wrong again is inexcusable.
@@scarymeunster9095 ant literally did not know what was going on until the situation exploded though. I don't think he could've changed his behavior because he just literally did not understand why his actions (stopping all personal mention of the rivalry stuff and the community post) were not sufficient. I don't think its reasonable to fault someone as "inexcusable" for making a mistake they weren't aware of. That said, I feel like you’re a decent person just presenting a different opinion, and I hope u have a good day.
@@scarymeunster9095 Eric said nothing of his issues moron. Then decided to block him so he couldn't come to a resolution, SmallAnt tried to get in contact and resolve it through one of Crows mods which somehow angered Crow further. Then Crow has the audacity to say that SmallAnt didn't try hard enough when he literally asked for space... He's a hypocrite and liar, half the things he said in his side was straight up fabrication.
I hope that they can mend broken bonds, I don't care if they never do another collaboration again, I would just hate for such a close friendship to be destroyed because morons on the internet can be toxic jerks
Point crow was fairly stern in his video about small ant being toxic to not only him but everyone else he collabs with. He literally said he’s worried for anyones mental health that works with small ant….. As part of a response to smants video.
It’s sad but I feel pointcrow has some underlying mental health issues to work through and it sucks
This isn't a "he's more wrong" "no, he's more wrong" situation. Both sides are valid and that's that. We shouldn't try to measure who was more in the wrong here because the truth is, they're both at fault. What they do now is their own business and we should respect that. Saying, "small ant is wrong!" "No! Point crow is wrong" does nothing but stoke the fire some more and is part of the problem. It just feels disgusting to give a take on something as personal as this situation.
Point crow do be wrong tho
@@LorLolygang you're the problem
what the fuck happened???
@@Joy-Con If point crow did not directly come out and privately state to Smallant "Hey can you stop with these jokes, they're going a bit too far" Then this entire situation is on him for not trying to fix it.
Smallant would've had no idea that he was taking it too far, and presumably assumed as such because it wasn't brought up before.
Pointcrow is (i assume) an adult and no longer a child. If he has an issue he can put on his Big boy pants and go directly talk with Smallant over discord or whatever private messaging service they use. Smallant seems reasonable enough that if he had learned that it was an issue he would've made efforts to no longer do this.
@@ianraymo350 not reading that
This is so unfortunate. I actually ended up finding both of their channels searching for speedruns randomly one day and happened across their race. Loved both of them so subbed both of them and really enjoyed all their content. It's insane how a "rivalry" can actually inspire viewers to take sides and become toxic. The content creators were clearly having a blast competing and doing it all for fun, really hope they can get things cleared up again.
I for one really enjoy seeing the same good content made twice by two separate but excellent creators, I can watch the video twice and have it be different
I’m not a part of the community and I’m not entirely sure why this has come on my radar, but it’s really sad to see this happening between two content creators. Something similar to this happened to a couple of creators I followed about… 8 years ago? Maybe? It was devastating then so seeing this struck a chord with me.
Hope that these two creators are able to reconcile in the future or at least move past the drama on their own. And to their fans who are just upset by all of this, just know that it’s completely fine to have mixed feelings over the whole situation. I hope things go well for you.
8 years ago… are you talking about the Creatures?
@@staple_boi maaaan I didnt wanna have to remember the Creatures. Cant believe we lost such a good thing over.... I dont even remember what
I don’t know why I recommended this either but I seen something like this happen between three RUclipsrs about four or five years ago. I can’t remember what exactly happened but I do remember it start with one of youtuber making a joke on the other then having the other youtuber get upset about it. Luckily they managed to reconcile the issue before it got out of hand.
Really hope SmallAnt and PointCrow can reconcile before the drama ends up damaging their friendship
@@staple_boi what The Creatures?
If the two are so inspired by eachother it only makes sense to work together till the very end.
Aw I love these guys. They both have such positive energy and I hate that this is happening
This makes me so sad. I really enjoy their chemistry in videos together. Sometimes "fans" are the worst :(
I think we can all learn a common lesson from this, when it comes to friendships, family, or a significant other, communication should be priority number one. Miscommunication can very quickly lead to bad situations, as you see.
I think the problem was simply that Smallant was/is the bigger creator of the two but banters with his fellow streamers and friends as if that wasn't the case. Like he rarely seems to make content for contents sake but rather because he has fun doing it and arguably the times he has the most fun is with stuff like randomizer battles. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing on it's own and it's definitely one of the reasons why I enjoy his content so much, but sadly this doesn't exist in a vacuum. Like it begins with both sides having fun, but sooner or later, if one community is larger and a lot of the people from the larger community become part of the smaller communities there'll always be that "oh, I know him from XYZ- person", and they obviously draw comparisons between the two.
A friend of mine had pretty much the exact same problems with his stream and a large content creator in the sphere, but since they both only play one game there isn't that much of a problem with the "oh you're just copying X" and his personality is very.... unique, to say the least.
I always felt like they were secretly friendly rivals while keeping up a fun meme.
I hope they're okay and can keep expressing their feelings for each other and about each other
I love when they do the same challenge, they're so different it adds to the uniqueness of their content :)
I do think Tanner actually does feel bad for PointCrow otherwise he wouldn’t have teared up. I don’t understand why PontCrow didn’t accept his apology. I guess he only sees the bad Tanner did.
Pointcrow did not think rationally and made up his mind to break the friendship. So he ended up making very vague reasons for the above mentioned. I do think he'll regret this hasty decision and will try to mend it again. But hoping it doesn't get too late till then
@Kurocon Yup it's definitely like putting a cage around youself. But there were better ways for sure
@@SakshamJain0201 funnily enough I'm pretty sure a similar thing happened with his oot playthrough. It was ruined for him by backseaters and assholes but he initially passed it off by saying the game just wasn't that good. I'm not gonna pretend to be a psychologist, but it seems like it's difficult for pointcrow to properly explain his feelings.
@@SakshamJain0201 true
@@lukebytes5366 Same with Deltarune. He was basically grinding through Chapter 2 and didn't take a moment to breathe, basically ruining the entire run through when I and a majority honestly think the entirety of Chapter 2 is better than all of Undertale
Looks like pointcrow being pointcrow. I started to watch him and he was acting nice to his fans but every now and then it'd slip and something toxic would pop thru. I subbed for a month and stopped watching after a few weeks and eventually unsubbed from ytube clips. I gave it a try and enjoyed the content ideas but could not stand his behavior. Gives it but can't take it. He just seemed more in it for the fame. Seems like they started their own "friendly rivalry" only one took it way more serious. And now we here. Honestly not surprised.
I'm happy to say I'm subbed to both
I love both of these guys and I truly hope they can move past this someday. I’m one of the few people who found Pointcrow first so I never even thought of him as a copycat. At the end of the day, they’re both people and I understand each of their views. Neither of them did anything unforgivable tho, and I hope that they repair their friendship eventually.
I really hope they can work this out, even if it stays offline. They’re both good people.
I don't watch you all the time Smallant but even then I know I've heard you specifically state that what you do with Pointcrow is friendly banter, because you're friends. Random people on the internet doing it is harassment. You made it clear that people shouldn't rag on pointcrow. I don't see how you are really at fault
Shut up
This isn’t small ant…
This is a fan account
@@The_big_prooooo I realized a bit after I posted the comment lol
Just want to say don't think smallant intended any of this. But even though he knew it was friendly banter there still a very large group of people who didn't care and judt harass pointcrow anyway cause "smallant say he bad" for pointcrow when this is a large amount of the stress in your life it's hard to not crow resentment cause everyone just craps on you cause smallant say thing. Although big thing that made this worst. Both sides just couldn't communicate well to the other what they actually wanted or were feeling so problem never really got fixed
I never knew there was drama between the two! D: I luv em both!
As someone who loves both creators it really sucks seeing this situation get between them
smant tried to defuse it from the start, but pcrow blocked him everywhere and smant was told by abby to leave pcrow space. he wanted to communicate, but he listened to his friends to not communicate and later gets shit for it. i don't think the fault is spread evenly at all. and he has proof of it in his livestream. i personally don't like people showing private messages, but sometimes it's really important for context. especially when pcrow says he's trying to reach out to him while having him blocked on twitter and discord. context matters. i don't want to harass pcrow, but i had a very similar thing happen to me and the way pcrow behaves just makes me mad.
It was weird because it really felt like all the recent complaints, which were all pcrow saying smant should have done something, should have been directed at Abby since it was her idea for smant to not do anything.
If pcrow wanted to shut down the toxicity, the most efficient way is being clear about it, permabanning offenders, and sharing bans across both channels.
Instead pcrow was hoping it would go away if it wasn't talked about, which would never happen since they share a community because they play the same games. And since it didn't go away, he deflected and blamed smant even though it was his own fault (and Abby's) the situation didn't improve at that point.
Agree
@@Nisvera How can you ban hundreds of people? He got bombed constantly. It seriously affected his career, for god sake. If you really expected him to be anything but manic, you’re even worse than Tanner’s well-intentioned ineptitude or any of his moronic community moderators.
Losing friends sucks, me and my best friend distanced away over a misunderstanding last year and its so much worse than a breakup :(
Started watching PointCrow bc of SmallAnt. They both do different things and I enjoy both of their content
I'm surprised and saddened to hear about this. I've mostly watched SmallAnt from his YT videos, and occasionally his VODs, and watching these challenges introduced me to PointCrow, and the NRG Speedrunning channel, and I quickly followed them both. I never once though, of PointCrow as copying SmallAnt, or the other way around.. I was always just excited to see more complicated and confusing BOTW and Pokemon challenges.
I got into both of their content around the same time, a couple years back, so it hurts to watch this situation come forward.
That said, while I think both of them did wrong, the clear villain of the story is far more the consistently awful miscommunications that snowballed into this.
and in the end, I feel like SmallAnt owned up to his side. He presented things clearly and concisely, he apologized for everything he had misunderstood, his attitude was genuine. The guy only defended himself on the parts he felt he was actually slighted, and never tossed undue blame onto PointCrow's shoulders.
PointCrow, on the other hand, very much seemed like he didn't care about anything SmallAnt had to say as statements, and instead took everything that was said as tools to form counterarguments against. Tensions were much higher on Crow's side, as his livelihood was being threatened to many different degrees, so I completely understand why he took the far more reflexive stance, but to me as a bystander, for whatever my two cents are worth as a fan, I feel like the way he went about it afterwards was an unfair stance to take.
Ant's side of the events served to offer his apologies, not to attack, and yet Crow stepped around all those sections to focus on the parts he could use as platforms to make his own attacks with. It came off very strangely; like he had already made up his mind on what the end result was going to be, regardless of what Ant said, so the parts that could positively affect that result for the better weren't taken into consideration. Crow seemed adamant on keeping the blame placed directly on Ant, and I noticed in his VOD, he had to be told multiple times by his chat to continue playing clips so as to not cherry-pick Ant's lines to use for his own ammo, which he still did often anyway.
At the end of the day, y'know, this was between them and it's now seemingly over. Not really anything for fans to worry too much on despite being a crappy feeling, but this was also made very much a public ordeal on Twitch... thanks to Crow's repeated bringing up of the situation in the first place. This SHOULD'VE been handled in private, but it wasn't, so now the shared fans between both creators being privy to all of this have to be the ones to deal with the brunt of the excess emotional baggage. I do think there's a place for all of us to give our two cents in that.
So, my final thoughts: Ant may've made a couple mistakes, a few bad calls that he didn't realize were bad until "too late", but Crow added so much unnecessary pressurization to a lot of it that made his eventual dismissal of Ant's apology come off as that much more petulant.
idk, just had to get that off my chest. It hurts. I'll still watch both of them, though if nothing else, I think this situation painted the kind of people they really are quite clearly.
Yeah I agree, It annoyed me so much watching Pointcrows vod, as a Smallant fan I was trying to be neutral and not biased but he was clearly painting Smallant as a villain. To me it just seems he cracked under pressure from the comments then blamed Smallant and then there was just very poor communication that escalated everything.
So did you not pay attention when Crow talked about how he told Smant to stop multiple times and he didn't? As a former fan of both, now only a fan of pointcrow (not due to this, just drifted away from smant's content), I have no reason to doubt Eric on this. He doesn't have a history of being called out for the same behavior displayed here, unlike Smant
@@hjv6133 Watch Smallants Vod if you haven't, Pointcrow specifically chose demonizing things throughout his entire vod and was just belittling Smallant. Yes he was bullied by Smallants audience but Smallant actively tried to help he was messaging Pointcrow and trying to help.
This whole situation happened because Pointcrows blaming Smallant for what his audience does when he can't really control them, his audience could decide to hate anyone he can't really control it then because he didn't like Smallants audience He blocked Smallant, he wasn't his friend anymore he wasn't talking to him, So why would Smallant not play a public Pokemon hack, out of respect for the guy who was bad mouthing him and blocking him after he actively did everything Crow wanted to make his fans calm down but because the fans who didn't he blamed Smallant. Everyone is allows their opinions, but Pointcrow is just terrible at communication and caused this whole thing to snowball. Smallant literally asked a simple question and Pointcrow replied with some wise ass yes and no answer.
I hate that a friendship got ruined by a general public’s lack of common sense and decency. Controlling or influencing a crowd to the result you want is not easy - that’s why careers are built around that skill. If Tanner, a dude who just hangs out and plays games couldn’t figure out how, but indeed tried his best even if it was kind clumsy, then he can’t be blamed for that. It’s not a simple thing. You can say and do everything right and a crowd can choose to ignore you. Could he still have reasonably done better? Yeah, and he says so. But sometimes, you just don’t understand what you don’t understand.
His tears are heartbreaking. Accidentally bumping into one domino and being unable to stop the cascade is very weighty guilt and stress-wise. Knowing your jokes weren’t actually being received as jokes is the same. But sometimes in life you screw up and you just have to live with that,
@@hjv6133 Ant progressively did stop his more thoughtless behavior over the course of the months he was aware there were problems, and that's the most important point. He didn't realize things were as bad as they were on Crow's side until things had already passed the boiling point.
I also think it's weird that while Ant eventually took the advice to just stop and let things blow over, Crow seemed to be like... expecting Ant to also make it this big thing? Like, one of Crow's annoyances was that Ant never brought it up on stream or anything. That felt like a super weird aspect to take any issue with, especially when he was saying this leading up to and during the period he had blocked Ant on everything. Almost like the dude wanted to settle whatever in private and also not step on your toes directly or something after being told to leave you alone.
The only actual not great thing Ant did after the initial stuff was the Pokemon hack imo, especially since Ant was aware of Crow's own hack. On the other hand though, it's not like Crow had some kind of monopoly on Pokemon hacks, but that's getting into other points that don't really have much worth in this specific context. Is all that worse than blaming Ant directly for what some random fuckabouts on youtube comment on Crow's videos? That's up to one's own judgement I suppose.
I don't doubt Crow had some legitimate issues with Ant here that needed to be worked out through this, Ant definitely fucked up a few times, but I haven't read Ant's actions as malicious while Crow seems to be convinced they were.
As I said initially, this thing between them had no right being made public.
I truly wish none of this happened, neither of them deserved this. I'm not sure of the whole story, but it seems it was damaging for them both, and I wish it never happened in the first place
Oh no it all started with the pokemon race?! I watched that and was thinking that it was just a funny miscommunication, it's so sad, that it lead to this 😞
I like the similar content they have. And whoever has anything else to say that would make our sweet beloved boy Smallant cry!!! I’ve got these hands 👊🏽
PointCrow: Hey stop making me look bad
SmallAnt: *continues to make him look bad*
PointCrow: That’s it! I’ve had enough!
SmallAnt: *Reaches out and tries to fix the problem*
PointCrow: Stop talking to me. I need space.
SmallAnt: *stops talking to PointCrow*
PointCrow: Why did you not reach out and make things right?
SmallAnt made more mistakes, but PointCrow was much less willing than Smant was to fix the problem. Both of their feelings are valid and I hope that some day, they can mend broken bonds :)
@@tateallen9972 bro what even happened
@@shockwavesyndrome6433 Watch the video, it's in the pinned comment of this video. Go see what SmallAnt had to say
@@shockwavesyndrome6433 watered down version: Crow cheats in competitive challenges with Ant, people don't like cheaters and start harassing him, ant makes a few jokes about him cheating (because he does), Crow reacts to that saying the harassment is from that (and not him cheating multiple times obviously why would it be that), Ant apologizes but nothing changes because it wasn't the cause for the harassment, Crow throws a fit and stops associating with Ant while trying to slander him because he knows he himself is the reason for the harassment. The end. You fanboys can get upset all you want trying to twist things and pick sides but from an outsiders view that's exactly it. Up until this vid was recommended to me after a phone reset I forgot all about these two. I don't care about either side because I'll just forget them again in a few days. Thanks ADHD.
I love the both of them. They have very different personalities and ways to entertain their fans. If their videos are somewhat similar, so what? They're just playing the same game/challenges. Other youtubers do it as well but they don't get noticed. Keep on going, don't mind the haters Ant and Crow! You both deserve the best!
That voice crack has me feeling heartbroken
What's funny is when Small Ant wasn't uploading and had the break, I found their collab videos and absolutely loved Crows videos, I would watch both of their videos and it was great
I'm not up to date on this. I was under the impression they were good friends, but I guess the internet doesn't see everything. From what I've gathered so far, Crow desperately needs space after having a lot of toxicity and miscommunication thrown his way unintentionally by Ant / Ant's fanbase, and Ant himself was caught in the crossfire. I don't know if this friendship is something that can or will heal with time, but I do hope both of them at least heal themselves and handle the future maturely.
I think people should just watch what they are interested in without all the harassing. I love when multiple people post the same content especially when it's something I really enjoy. I watch hundreds of RUclipsrs play the same thing. its fun to see how everyone goes through and about it.
Wow I just learned about this now and it’s very upsetting. Two creators I love with similar content (my favorite content). A rift between them, not because of each other, but because of unruly communities firing at each other over fucking nothing. That’s painful dude
This is so sad, for them both.
Just something about seeing someone break down mid sentence, just made my heart sink so badly
TBH I felt like it was a little weird when they started the "rivalry" I just knew that because of differences in channel size and the similarity in their content fans were gonna start BSing a ton of stuff. I wish fans had enough common sense to know these are real people and that their words can hurt them and their relationship. I wish nothing but the best to PointCrow and SmallAnt they have been massive inspirations and great sources of entertainment to millions of people.
It's funny because a couple months ago I thought these two were the same people
I like them both and it really sucks that this is ongoing.
I thought it was siblings rivalry but it was just rivalry :(
I don't watch many streams so I had no idea this happened. But, after watching both vods, it seems to me that this basically boils down to smants chat being overly-toxic and crow being overly-sensitive. That's not to say that crow's feelings aren't valid, because they absolutely are, but there was no way for smant to know it was a problem before crow came to him and told him. I feel that if crow had come out right away and told ant what he was feeling then this whole situation could've been avoided.
As for the credit for the mods, I doubt smant purposely avoided giving crow any credit. He has no reason to do that, it wouldn't help his channel at all to not give credit. And as for the "exclusive early access" crow paid for, how could that possibly be smant's fault? Smant asked the mod creator if he could get access, mod creator said yes. The only person crow should be upset with is the mod creator who told him he had exclusive access and then gave it to other people.
Furthermore, how long should smant have to wait before putting out his own content? It's not his fault that crow was slower and it's a pretty big double standard to think that smant should have to wait without thinking about how that will hurt his channel.
Overall it really feels like crow got into his own head more than anything, and is trying to go after smant for a bunch of assumed slights that didn't actually happen. Again, not saying that crow isn't allowed to feel the way he feels, but he definitely has issues that he needs to work through to avoid hurting others in the future. Hopefully they can both get past this and eventually patch things up. If not, then crow just needs to leave smant alone altogether. Watching smant's every move and assuming that everything he does is an attack against him isn't a healthy mindset.
I hope they can work it out eventually and see that none of this was meant to harm the other
Jesus it sucks how out of control this got i really hope they can reconcile after a while
Watched both VODs, PointCrow (PC), SmallAnt (SA)
*TL;DR of my opinion:* SA made a lot of mistakes, and took too long to fix them. This led PC to have to take a lot of shit, and now their friendship is irrepairably broken. SA failed as a friend, but he was well intentioned. He's not a manipulator or anything of the sort like PC suggests.
So now, let's go over this situation point by point, but before that, I know this is a long comment, but if you intend to respond to what I say, please read it all.
So let's begin with the comparisons situation. I think that SA's stance on this was fair. While, yes, this happened a lot to PC because of their competition and rivalry, it does happen to every RUclipsr, somewhat. I don't think SA is at fault for not realizing the real cause of it sooner. He also stopped doing the whole banter thing altogether after PC told him to stop, so I don't think there was much else he could have done.
Then, we have the cheater situation, and while SA could have handled it much better, PC also didn't really clarify that he should have pinned his comment, and when he talked with SA about it later, SA edited the pinned comment to clarify the whole deal, it wasn't just the community post.
Then we have the whole debacle with that race stream for charity. As SA said, he was cheering for the other team to win, not for PC to lose. PC says that he kept on talking about doing so in Cheese's chat, SA says that he made a comment or so about it, none of them showed screenshots and stuff, so I'm not gonna say who is in the right and who is in the wrong.
Then there is the credit thing. SA tried to give credit to PC. I'm not sure of how Twitch works, but supposedly, the command that had the credit didn't work because SA's streaming format didn't allow for commands. I think it's fair for PC to not appreciate that. The thing is, everytime he brought up the lack of credit that SA gave him, after he made that command, he never specified that the command wasn't working. And from SA's VOD, I think that he wasn't aware of that, at all.
After that we have the whole sniping thing. SA himself has clarified what happened, he didn't really snipe any video off of PC. Maybe SA did try to snipe them, but PC knew that, so he rushed his videos out so that wouldn't happen, I don't know at this point.
Now we have the HG SS randomizer situation. SA himself has admitted it was shitty of him to do that so I won't dabble on this for longer.
And finally, the thing about it getting to the public. PC says that he is confused as to why SA made this public, but I mean, he was the one who said all of those things on those streams, so he only has himself to blame.
With all of this taken into account, let's summarize this. I don't think that PC saying that this wasn't miscommunication is correct. Yes, he told him what his issues were and what needed to be fixed, but he was never clear on how they should be fixed. SA definitely tried to fix stuff, he just did it poorly.
I don't think calling SA a manipulator and a terrible person is fair. He tried to make amends and it's pretty clear from his VOD, especially at the end, that he regrets how things turned out. Could he have faked it? I guess, but you'd need a lot to convince me that the way he broke down, his hesitations, his hiccups and the way his voice shook were all faked.
That being said, do not misinterpret me, PC is completely justified in being angry at SA and distancing from him. At the end of the day, he was wronged by SA, regardless of how hard SA tried to fix things. But the shit he said about SA at the end of his VOD is too much.
I wish they could read this bcuz u summarized this whole situation perfectly. I have to agree with u. It’s hard seeing them upset with eachother like this, it only sucks that there’s nothing we as an audience can do. I hope they can move on at some point and maybe make amends, but that’s probably my wishful thinking unfortunately.
I can’t stress enough : crying does _not_ make you genuine. _Actions_ make you genuine. Tanner wasn’t wise to the fact that he was hurting Eric in basically every way possible, and frankly, it crossed into negligence very early on. Still, I think Tanner is just an absolute buffoon, not malevolent. However, Eric has every right to believe it was intended, since there’s a certain point where I myself no longer believe Tanner was just unaware of it. His community managers should be the ones crucified for this.
@@scarymeunster9095 I emphasized in my comment that I was very much aware that crying can easily be faked and shit, but that you'd have to try REALLY hard to convince that Tanner was actually faking it, because of everything else.
As for the rest of what you said, I agree, Tanner fucked up a lot when it comes to his friendship with Eric, and because of it, Eric has every right to be mad and to not be friends with him again, regardless of Tanner's intentions.
However, Tanner did try to fix pretty much all of his mistakes, even if too little too late, so like you said, I highly doubt that he is malicious.
I always enjoyed watching them both... even if they did the same thing their personalities set them apart and made watching either a unique experience. if i would have to pick one or the other i wouldnt be able to choose. yes factually smallant seems to be the more experienced/ stronger gamer but that doesnt mean i enjoy watching him any more or less then pointcrow. their personalities shine through whatever they are doing and make it a blast to watch.
what a shame i loved seeing them do challenges against each other....
Man... I am subbed to both and I enjoy both of their content. All this for what? They should be free to make what they want and be friends or rivals or neither as they want. Viewers pushing on them like that really sucks. I don't want this to ruin anything they had so much fun in their colabs.
I didn't even know there was a situation going on with these two until just now.
I hope they'll be friends again soon, it's heartbreaking seeing such good friends breaking up. :(
The first time I saw PointCrow was when I watched SmallAnt's "Can you beat Pokémon without dealing damage?" video, which he copied from Crow, and not knowing Crow back then nor watching his videos, I just thought "lol SmallAnt flexing >:)".
But then I started watching Crow's videos as well, and I really do enjoy them as well, mostly the main channel videos though, I don't watch a lot of VODs. I did watch his Undertale and Deltarune VODs though, coz I love those two games and I was really hype from after playing Deltarune Chapter 2 and wanted to see others react to Deltarune's storyline.
I mostly watch SmallAnt, but it's nice to watch PointCrow's videos too, some of his BotW videos are especially cool or funny, like "Zelda but without color", or "Will Gerudo Village accept Sidon?", and his Pokémon videos are always fun to watch.
I don't care if they copy each other. I love watching several RUclipsrs do the same stuff, I watch a lot of people reacting to the same videos when I get really hype about it, and I like seeing different people handling a challenge in their own ways or the intended way and see how skilled they are at it.
I hope things work out for them both, and that they can repair their friendship some day, so they can return to having fun racing against each other... :/
In a nutshell can you tell me what happened?
@@FaLLeN3421 No, because I haven't actually watched the both full streams, only seen the comments. So I don't want to end up telling you something wrong.
@@FaLLeN3421 Basically what happened was smallants viewers were saying that pointcrow was copying small ant, since they make similar content, which led to pointcrow having a lot of stress and anxiety because people began to believe that he actually was copying, but like I said before they were just making similar content, of which Smallant was fine with. Also small ant was making jokes about how pointcrow was bad at the games he played at and that he was better, and was just trying to be competitive, but pointcrow continuously got butthurt at these jokes but never told anybody. Eventually pointcrow banned the words Smallant and Smant from his stream, and stopped talking to small ant because point crow blocked him on all major platforms. Smallant thought something bad had happened, so he talked to PointCrows manager to see what was wrong and what he could do, and pointcrows manager told Smallant the best thing to do was just to leave him alone, so Smallant left him alone. Pointcrow on the other hand, got butthurt even more because he thought Smallant was flat out ignoring him and his wellbeing, when Smallant was simply following what pointcrows manager thought was best. Smallant apologized about it, hoping to still be friends, but Pointcrow denied the apology and near slandered Smallant in his apology on a VOD. TLDR: Smallant and his chat did some things that made pointcrow mad, but pointcrow didn’t communicate his feelings to Smallant to reach even ground and forcing them to part ways.
Damn, this is the first I'm hearing of it. I'll be honest, when I first saw their collabs, I originally had a negative impression of PointCrow too (as a personality specifically). The following collabs didn't help, but it was never a serious implication. Those videos were always something I really looked forward to. I started watching more and more clips of PointCrow and I realized he's just doing his genuine best. There was a turning point for me, and I was worried the community might have an adverse affect. Like, they never gave him an honest chance. Look at that happy-go-lucky guy do what we all wish we could; I respect that.
This whole time, I just thought SmallAnt's gaming knowledge/experience was speaking for itself. That his personality to take advantage of any situation given to him was a part of his charm. That at the end, they all laughed it off and got drinks together.
/EndRandomClipRant
Dude gets hundreds of thousands of views per youtube video and often makes it into the millions, don't cry for the poor little youtuber trying to keep up with the big boy, they don't exist in this scenario, SmallAnt might be bigger but they are both pretty fking big. I think he's been given an honest chance by plenty, how big do you think he needs to be before he gets the "accepted" stamp cuz honestly those numbers for the youtube and twitch gaming space while not massive are certainly very big, much bigger than most successful gaming content creators thats for sure. As for the second part:
"This whole time, I just thought SmallAnt's gaming knowledge/experience was speaking for itself. That his personality to take advantage of any situation given to him was a part of his charm. That at the end, they all laughed it off and got drinks together." No reason to believe that isn't the case with everybody he does and has worked with bar PointCrow.
@@JohnnyMaverik I acknowledge PointCrow doesn't need any more approval, and that he's building an impressive community and fanbase too. I'm guessing he's bringing in shnutty shmoney stacks to boot. I also acknowledge SmallAnt is having fun with everyone else.
At the end of the day, though, they're still human beings. I can't imagine how it feels to have an adverse effect on thousands, if not millions of people that then harass and send death threats to a friend online. Dealing with that on the daily has lead to a lot of suicides. At the end of the day, it just sucks, and it sucks to lose a friend.
@@JohnnyMaverik When you get ruthlessly compared tot he point your career is taking hits, you snap back. That’s human nature. I don’t know what you’d want from him.
bringing your creator to tears seems like more than enough to make an audience realize what they are doing is wrong, I never really was aware this happened and I don't really keep up with it now so I hope this was a turning point in this situation
Smant and Crow are both awesome dudes period. Hope you both can say F the haters and keep being friends.