In this video I've made a common mistake by applying "vernier caliper" name to a tool that should be named "digital caliper". I thank everyone who has noticed, and I appologize for this inaccuracy. My voiced appology was done in the intro to the following video: - ruclips.net/video/IRsXF6AFoMw/видео.html
Hey, I’ve just stumbled upon your channel and it’s immediately obvious that it deserves much more views. The Campagnolo method is easy to use for any chain, if to understand the calculation. 6 outer links comprise 11 half-links minus 1 roller diameter. One half-link length (called pitch) is exactly 1/2 inch or 12.7 mm. Campa chains have 7.7 mm roller diameter. So, 11 pitches minus 1 roller = 132 mm. Add 0,5 % to that and you’ll get 132.66 mm. The rounddown to 132.6 is just to err on the safe side - as in fact there are real-world fluctuations as demonstrated in the video. Now, different chains have exactly same pitch, but different roller diameters (most common is 7.65 - and up to 7.9 mm). But that’s not a problem as you can just measure the roller with the calipers at any time - the external diameter doesn’t change with wear. So, you just subtract it from 139.7 mm (11 pitches) and get your 100 % mark for an unworn chain of your particular model. Классный контент, уверен, популярность придет внезапно :)
Hi, Alex! Thanks for watching. In fact, a view of an enthusiastic and dedicated cyclist is worth a thousand! Excited to dive into your calculation approach. The math absolutely makes sense! Thumbs up for pushing cycling in Serbia forward! Keep on riding 🤘
The campy method does not work for KMC or shimano chains. Reason is, a NEW KMC or shimano chain measures about 132,25mm between the rollers, as per my measurements with quality digital vernier. In that context binning the chain at 132,6mm is overly cautious as it equates to binning it at 0,26%, - and, that is including internal roller wear that is a substantial part of this method. You can safely go to 133,0mm.
@@clickbait2000 There is a great wright up on subject from BikeGremlin on the web, where there are details about uneven spacing with wear between rollers on outer plates and inner link plates. As a conclusion there is a suggestion to only measure elongation at intervals dividable by a full inch. Also there is no point in measuring initial chain state as only half inch pitch matters easpecially if you think how many manufacturers there are to comply and make compatible both chains and sprockets
Great video! I ride Ebikes as a commuter and for fun. They are brutal on chain wear. I normally get about 2000kms out of the chain, so I replace about 4 chains a year and a cluster every 6 months! This makes cycling not as cheap as you would first think! Fortunately I can at least do the work myself. After seeing your video on Aliexpress I am going to source parts from them. When I took my latest Ebike (Focus Aventura 2) for its first check at 1500km to my bike shop, they told me that my chain was well over 1% wear. I checked it using my Park tool later and it measured at .75. I think I will now go and try the vernier caliper method. Thanks for the great advice.
Bosch CX motors can wear out a MTB chain in as little as 1000 kilometres . I have seen the motor itself burn out due to a twisted link or damaged chainring , although this is uncommon . I burned out a Bosch CX motor on 115 volts DC on a bench last year directly connected to supply . It lasted five seconds then smoked up .
My silly 30 euro chain stretch tool said 0.3% stretch on my KMC e10 chain with 100-150 km on it, on my commuter Ebike... so I thought my old cassette had wrecked a new chain. Fortunately I found extra chain links from the chain installation last year. I could now do the caliper method. Dividing the numbers tells me chain has stretched 0.1%!!
I recommended this backup option to Adam at Zero Friction Cycling in Adelaide , Australia some time ago . Good when KMC chain checkers don't function properly .
I am glad that I found your channel, good content. The presentation is way to sweet and smiley to my taste but you be you, still a better presenter than myself. Ideally, you'd want to use a caliper with special lips matching the chain links internals. There are inner groove calipers which can be used for ID of bearings as well and other big round holes (say, frame press fit holes) or, a hole to hole pin design also suitable for measuring the distance between fasteners or little holes. IMHO a good alternative to the overpriced and hard to get digital KMC tool which can only be used for one purpose. Those calipers above would save you from messing with the regular caliper bladed little lips. I wonder what your opinion is about waxing - freshly waxed chain will measure as new, but how many Kms it needs until the chain turns into a pumpkin?
If you mean a pumpkin that needs rewaxing, 200-300 miles in dry conditions. If you mean a complete pumpkin, my chains are ~6K miles now and promising to double this 🤪
@@ZavyalovCycling No, what I mean is that wax fills the voids which then causes freshly waxed badly warn chain to measure and behave as new, and the question is, "for how long"?
@@Hard_Work_Is_Rewarding Got it! I've never personally measured any chain straight after waxing - only after a break-in ride. It's said that 10-15 miles normally bring a freshly waxed chain to usual form. Maybe, even a bit fewer, I'd say. Still, this doesn't mean that a badly worn chain, rewaxed every 5 miles, equals a new one.
There are chain wear checkers setted for 0.5 chain wearing, so you simply have to check the chain every time you clean that and you have all under control.
I was attempting to do this measurement a few days ago however I could not find any documentation on the chain rollers or acceptable amounts of roller slop. It is not clear to me which forms of wear are most critical. You can make inside or outside measurements on the rollers or on the plates on the sides of the chain.. Inexpensive 12inch digital calipers are also available so you can measure more links.
Wear and elongation happens on the pins. So you have to measure from the outside from center of the pin. 12,7 is good 12,8mm is ok but you have to change soon 12,9 is to much. With method you just measure the wear of the rollls.
I was confused a lot because of this: My 11 speed chain only made 450km. Calipers method shows 132.65mm which refers to 0.5%+, however, if am measuring with a ruler on the outside for 254mm (10 inch) it shows me just a bit above 254mm, where 0.5% would be 255.27mm.
I used a Parktool checker which showed 0.5% wear so I need a new chain. I measured with calipers which showed no wear. I also compared a new and old chain side by side and again no stretch. Parktool no good.
@@ZavyalovCycling Its a great video! I've wondered if this was a possible method for measuring. I will have to go back and get the numbers and write them down for use in the shop!
I'm late to the party on this one. I wonder if the important point of chain wear is not so much that the chain is .5% longer than new, but .5% longer than the intended spec. You allude to this somewhat around 4:45 point of the video. Possibly because of initial slop, the chain you measured will exceed the .5% chain checker limit after only .34% wear. That implies the chain has an initial .16% slop. As I understand it, the important point of exceeding the .5% isn't so much wear of the chain, but the effect a longer chain has on wearing out the cassette gears and the ring gears, and the degradation of shifting by the chain jumping and so on. So, maybe the initial new measurement is interesting, but the chain quality and initial slop determines how much wear a chain can get before it exceeds the .5% limit, and when .5% more than spec is exceeded is when the chain needs to be replaced. Does that make sense?
Thank you very much for this explanation. Very easy to understand. Now I'm sure my Shimano chain, with 107.8mm really needs to be replaced. Hope the other parts are not very very damaged from this late replacement... :/
You are welcome, Miguel! Just take a note that in most cases it’s better to measure 6 outer plates (~132 mm). I went for 5 (~107) in this video just for a comparison with the chain checker. All the best!
The construction of bicycle chain is not as you would first think - well not for me. The pin is a press fit in the outer link and a clearance fit in the inner link. The rollers are not supported on the pin but on shoulders extruded on the inner link - so the forces are transferred from the chainwheel teeth to the rollers - then onto the inner link through the shoulders - the inner is able to rotate on the pin and transfer the force onto the outer link. Chain wear is produced from several moving surfaces - on the pin where in contacts the inner link - on the inner link where it contacts the pin - on the inner link shoulders and on the roller inner diameters where they contact the shoulders. Chain wear measuring devices measure wear taking place between the pins and the inner links - this effectively increases the chain pitch. Wear on the inner link shoulders and the inner diameters of the rollers effectively reduces the pitch as measured by the measuring device. This wear on the shoulders and the inner diameters of the rollers can easily be seen if you compare the movement of the rollers on a worn chain with a new chain. So what is my conclusion - well chain wear measuring devices or your caliper method give a good indication of chain wear but it's not the full story - wear on the rollers and the inner link shoulders is also important but difficult to measure. Thanks for the video. Brian.
Hi, Brian! Thank you for the detailed feedback. What you explain, absolutely makes sense. In another video I gave a picture of chain components to illustrate the same things. In particular, how rollers sit on the shoulders, rub against each other, and create roller wear, aka roller slop. What I cannot yet agree on, is your conclusion. The caliper pushes two rollers on the shoulders apart, thus adding wear on this components to the measurement. Some people criticize the method exactly for this - for adding “too much”. But you suspect the opposite - that the method leaves some kind of roller wear behind and measures “too little”. Couldn’t get this idea of yours.
@@ZavyalovCycling Thanks for correcting me on that - indeed wear on the shoulders does add to total wear measured. I looked at your previous video - wish I'd have seen this first this would have introduced me to slop. When I first deconstructed (!) a chain I couldn't believe that the rollers weren't supported on the pin - perhaps they were historically.
Thank you for the photos, Brian! A perfect illustration of what actually happens inside the rollers. And a perfect proof that this kind of wear should not be ignored!
My calipers work brilliant until they get to 90mm then they jump and add 5-10mm ...also notice something you said that the sharp edge of it can go down the inside of the roller/outer plate....Back to the CC3.2 for now...
I appreciate the detail. Will try this soon. Sorta embarrassed not to have thought of this myself. Cause, over the years, I must have spent $100 or so on chain checkers while my caliper just stayed in the tool box.
theres no such thing as a "digital Vernier caliper" what you're using is a digital caliper. a Vernier caliper is one that has a Vernier scale on the side. ie: a non-digital one.
That is not a vernier caliper. It is a digital caliper. A vernier measuring device has a scale on it invented by Monsieur Vernier who must be spinning in his grave at the bastardisation of his invention
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In this video I've made a common mistake by applying "vernier caliper" name to a tool that should be named "digital caliper". I thank everyone who has noticed, and I appologize for this inaccuracy. My voiced appology was done in the intro to the following video:
- ruclips.net/video/IRsXF6AFoMw/видео.html
Hey, I’ve just stumbled upon your channel and it’s immediately obvious that it deserves much more views.
The Campagnolo method is easy to use for any chain, if to understand the calculation.
6 outer links comprise 11 half-links minus 1 roller diameter. One half-link length (called pitch) is exactly 1/2 inch or 12.7 mm. Campa chains have 7.7 mm roller diameter. So, 11 pitches minus 1 roller = 132 mm. Add 0,5 % to that and you’ll get 132.66 mm. The rounddown to 132.6 is just to err on the safe side - as in fact there are real-world fluctuations as demonstrated in the video.
Now, different chains have exactly same pitch, but different roller diameters (most common is 7.65 - and up to 7.9 mm). But that’s not a problem as you can just measure the roller with the calipers at any time - the external diameter doesn’t change with wear. So, you just subtract it from 139.7 mm (11 pitches) and get your 100 % mark for an unworn chain of your particular model.
Классный контент, уверен, популярность придет внезапно :)
Hi, Alex! Thanks for watching. In fact, a view of an enthusiastic and dedicated cyclist is worth a thousand! Excited to dive into your calculation approach. The math absolutely makes sense! Thumbs up for pushing cycling in Serbia forward! Keep on riding 🤘
The campy method does not work for KMC or shimano chains. Reason is, a NEW KMC or shimano chain measures about 132,25mm between the rollers, as per my measurements with quality digital vernier. In that context binning the chain at 132,6mm is overly cautious as it equates to binning it at 0,26%, - and, that is including internal roller wear that is a substantial part of this method. You can safely go to 133,0mm.
@@clickbait2000 There is a great wright up on subject from BikeGremlin on the web, where there are details about uneven spacing with wear between rollers on outer plates and inner link plates. As a conclusion there is a suggestion to only measure elongation at intervals dividable by a full inch. Also there is no point in measuring initial chain state as only half inch pitch matters easpecially if you think how many manufacturers there are to comply and make compatible both chains and sprockets
How to over complicate a very simple well proven technique using a chain checker 😅
Thanks for saving me from buying another tool to keep track of! As an engineer I'm embarrassed I didn't think of this already.
Welcome! We need to thank Campagnolo the most. Even if we don’t own their stuff 😀
Great video!
I ride Ebikes as a commuter and for fun. They are brutal on chain wear.
I normally get about 2000kms out of the chain, so I replace about 4 chains a year and a cluster every 6 months! This makes cycling not as cheap as you would first think! Fortunately I can at least do the work myself.
After seeing your video on Aliexpress I am going to source parts from them.
When I took my latest Ebike (Focus Aventura 2) for its first check at 1500km to my bike shop, they told me that my chain was well over 1% wear. I checked it using my Park tool later and it measured at .75. I think I will now go and try the vernier caliper method.
Thanks for the great advice.
Thank you for the detailed feedback! When I see ebikers pulling the watts through the drivetrains, I always wonder about this! 😀👍
Bosch CX motors can wear out a MTB chain in as little as 1000 kilometres . I have seen the motor itself burn out due to a twisted link or damaged chainring , although this is uncommon . I burned out a Bosch CX motor on 115 volts DC on a bench last year directly connected to supply . It lasted five seconds then smoked up .
Reconsider the credibility of that shop's mechanics . There are some shocking bicycle mechanics in my city.
My silly 30 euro chain stretch tool said 0.3% stretch on my KMC e10 chain with 100-150 km on it, on my commuter Ebike... so I thought my old cassette had wrecked a new chain. Fortunately I found extra chain links from the chain installation last year. I could now do the caliper method. Dividing the numbers tells me chain has stretched 0.1%!!
4:02 never used new chain has no break in length, for ex hg70 from box has 119.35 but after 100-200km it has 119.65-70mm, and this keeps for long time
I recommended this backup option to Adam at Zero Friction Cycling in Adelaide , Australia some time ago . Good when KMC chain checkers don't function properly .
I am glad that I found your channel, good content. The presentation is way to sweet and smiley to my taste but you be you, still a better presenter than myself. Ideally, you'd want to use a caliper with special lips matching the chain links internals. There are inner groove calipers which can be used for ID of bearings as well and other big round holes (say, frame press fit holes) or, a hole to hole pin design also suitable for measuring the distance between fasteners or little holes. IMHO a good alternative to the overpriced and hard to get digital KMC tool which can only be used for one purpose. Those calipers above would save you from messing with the regular caliper bladed little lips.
I wonder what your opinion is about waxing - freshly waxed chain will measure as new, but how many Kms it needs until the chain turns into a pumpkin?
If you mean a pumpkin that needs rewaxing, 200-300 miles in dry conditions. If you mean a complete pumpkin, my chains are ~6K miles now and promising to double this 🤪
@@ZavyalovCycling No, what I mean is that wax fills the voids which then causes freshly waxed badly warn chain to measure and behave as new, and the question is, "for how long"?
@@Hard_Work_Is_Rewarding Got it! I've never personally measured any chain straight after waxing - only after a break-in ride. It's said that 10-15 miles normally bring a freshly waxed chain to usual form. Maybe, even a bit fewer, I'd say. Still, this doesn't mean that a badly worn chain, rewaxed every 5 miles, equals a new one.
FWIW, the Shimano TL-CN42 chain checker measures 0.4% wear excluding roller slop. The distance between the contact points is 5.020".
There are chain wear checkers setted for 0.5 chain wearing, so you simply have to check the chain every time you clean that and you have all under control.
I was attempting to do this measurement a few days ago however I could not find any documentation on the chain rollers or acceptable amounts of roller slop. It is not clear to me which forms of wear are most critical. You can make inside or outside measurements on the rollers or on the plates on the sides of the chain.. Inexpensive 12inch digital calipers are also available so you can measure more links.
Wear and elongation happens on the pins. So you have to measure from the outside from center of the pin. 12,7 is good 12,8mm is ok but you have to change soon 12,9 is to much. With method you just measure the wear of the rollls.
I was confused a lot because of this: My 11 speed chain only made 450km. Calipers method shows 132.65mm which refers to 0.5%+, however, if am measuring with a ruler on the outside for 254mm (10 inch) it shows me just a bit above 254mm, where 0.5% would be 255.27mm.
I used a Parktool checker which showed 0.5% wear so I need a new chain. I measured with calipers which showed no wear. I also compared a new and old chain side by side and again no stretch. Parktool no good.
A vernier caliper uses a vernier scale. A digital caliper doesn’t need a vernier scale, so basically, it’s a digital caliper, not both.
Thank you for this clarification, won’t follow this naming mistake anymore! 👍
@@ZavyalovCycling Its a great video! I've wondered if this was a possible method for measuring. I will have to go back and get the numbers and write them down for use in the shop!
I bet you are a hoot at parties 😅
@@marcdaniels9079I would love to find out how that would go if people invited me…😢
@@marcdaniels9079😅
Perfect :) thanks.
Was wondering to buy one for myself for this purpose
Welcome! A versatile tool for a cyclist! Checked brake rotors wear with it recently.
@@ZavyalovCycling cool... Hope we'll have a jow to video on that one too 😄
Excellent content. Subscribed.
Thank you for the feedback! 🤘
Does it work for sram gx which got bigger pins
I'm late to the party on this one. I wonder if the important point of chain wear is not so much that the chain is .5% longer than new, but .5% longer than the intended spec. You allude to this somewhat around 4:45 point of the video. Possibly because of initial slop, the chain you measured will exceed the .5% chain checker limit after only .34% wear. That implies the chain has an initial .16% slop. As I understand it, the important point of exceeding the .5% isn't so much wear of the chain, but the effect a longer chain has on wearing out the cassette gears and the ring gears, and the degradation of shifting by the chain jumping and so on. So, maybe the initial new measurement is interesting, but the chain quality and initial slop determines how much wear a chain can get before it exceeds the .5% limit, and when .5% more than spec is exceeded is when the chain needs to be replaced. Does that make sense?
Thank you very much for this explanation. Very easy to understand. Now I'm sure my Shimano chain, with 107.8mm really needs to be replaced. Hope the other parts are not very very damaged from this late replacement... :/
You are welcome, Miguel! Just take a note that in most cases it’s better to measure 6 outer plates (~132 mm). I went for 5 (~107) in this video just for a comparison with the chain checker. All the best!
Great explanation.
You didn't hold the vernier parallel to the chain, that is where it comes your different measurements
The construction of bicycle chain is not as you would first think - well not for me. The pin is a press fit in the outer link and a clearance fit in the inner link. The rollers are not supported on the pin but on shoulders extruded on the inner link - so the forces are transferred from the chainwheel teeth to the rollers - then onto the inner link through the shoulders - the inner is able to rotate on the pin and transfer the force onto the outer link. Chain wear is produced from several moving surfaces - on the pin where in contacts the inner link - on the inner link where it contacts the pin - on the inner link shoulders and on the roller inner diameters where they contact the shoulders. Chain wear measuring devices measure wear taking place between the pins and the inner links - this effectively increases the chain pitch. Wear on the inner link shoulders and the inner diameters of the rollers effectively reduces the pitch as measured by the measuring device. This wear on the shoulders and the inner diameters of the rollers can easily be seen if you compare the movement of the rollers on a worn chain with a new chain.
So what is my conclusion - well chain wear measuring devices or your caliper method give a good indication of chain wear but it's not the full story - wear on the rollers and the inner link shoulders is also important but difficult to measure.
Thanks for the video. Brian.
Hi, Brian! Thank you for the detailed feedback. What you explain, absolutely makes sense. In another video I gave a picture of chain components to illustrate the same things. In particular, how rollers sit on the shoulders, rub against each other, and create roller wear, aka roller slop. What I cannot yet agree on, is your conclusion. The caliper pushes two rollers on the shoulders apart, thus adding wear on this components to the measurement. Some people criticize the method exactly for this - for adding “too much”. But you suspect the opposite - that the method leaves some kind of roller wear behind and measures “too little”. Couldn’t get this idea of yours.
@@ZavyalovCycling Thanks for correcting me on that - indeed wear on the shoulders does add to total wear measured. I looked at your previous video - wish I'd have seen this first this would have introduced me to slop. When I first deconstructed (!) a chain I couldn't believe that the rollers weren't supported on the pin - perhaps they were historically.
Thank you for the photos, Brian! A perfect illustration of what actually happens inside the rollers. And a perfect proof that this kind of wear should not be ignored!
Диаметры роликов цепей Компаньоло и Шимано не одинаковы, это при измерениях надо учитывать.
Awesome & Thanks :)
Welcome and thanks for the feedback!
My calipers work brilliant until they get to 90mm then they jump and add 5-10mm ...also notice something you said that the sharp edge of it can go down the inside of the roller/outer plate....Back to the CC3.2 for now...
Yes, that’s the price we pay for versatility of the calipers. Can be fiddly at times 😀 Anyway, cc3.2 is a nice tool which won’t let you down!
or digital calipers. they both work.
Different chains have different pins widht...
I appreciate the detail. Will try this soon. Sorta embarrassed not to have thought of this myself. Cause, over the years, I must have spent $100 or so on chain checkers while my caliper just stayed in the tool box.
Are they all made in China?
Have a look at Japanese Mitutoyo if you are eager to spend some bucks on one 😀
@@ZavyalovCyclingRabone Chesterman is what I have . Made in the United Kingdom .
My chain (13.90 cm) 😢😂
Must be pretty close to 0.5% 😉
theres no such thing as a "digital Vernier caliper" what you're using is a digital caliper. a Vernier caliper is one that has a Vernier scale on the side. ie: a non-digital one.
My Rabone Chesterman ones has the digital readout and the increments printed on it as well .
That is not a vernier caliper. It is a digital caliper. A vernier measuring device has a scale on it invented by Monsieur Vernier who must be spinning in his grave at the bastardisation of his invention