Conclusion at 1:05:45 "If they are designed correctly, the efficiency advantage is worth it." In other words you get more bang for buck with a ported sub (more output at say 16-24Hz for the money), and its shortcomings shouldn't be audible if you get one with good measured performance.
Effeciency, ok. Sound quality? Sorry, SEALED wins that race. We're not all looking for bang. Honestly, I would not go ported again, unless I wanted a super low and loud noisy laggy bass. No offense, I LOVE deep and loud, but sealed drivers today offer more than just bang.
When hugo left, some of the magic of this channel went with him. This is my favorite video in awhile. Keep up content like this please. This is similar to home theater geeks, which I miss so much..
Gene mentioned the room transition frequency in our video and i see some were not sure what that is. The room transition frequency, Schroeder frequency, or room FS refers to a point at which the room transitions from modal to stochastic behavior. Say what? If you look at the measurements in a room you will see that from 20hz to 50hz the room goes from just one mode to a small handful of widely spaced modes. Then from 50hz to about 150hz the room rapidly transitions into many more peaks and dips, the number of modes increases dramatically. After this point the number of modes becomes so high and so dense that you simply can’t see the distinct effect anymore. The point at which this transition takes place depends on the side of the room and how reverberant it is. Stochastic means statistical and in simple terms it means that you can understand what the modes are in the room at any point in time or space via a statistical distribution. Further, if you took a sample of measurements with a mic in the same room and never moved the mic, you would find that every measurement (assuming fine enough resolution like little to no smoothing) is slightly different. The stochastic zone is best treated differently than the modal zone. Modal zone is best treated with things like multiple subwoofers, optimal sub placement, bass traps, and modest EQ. The stochastic zone is best treated with a very different kind of optimal placement, a very different kind of acoustic treatment (such as less absorption, scattering, diffusion, normal reflection), and generally no eq. It’s also a critical region where what the microphone picks up no longer matches well with what our ears hear.
To see James become so animated describing his favourite subwoofers was really enjoyable. He stayed calm when Matt was poking him with a pointy stick about ported subwoofers being best, but when it came to his favourite subs, that was a different matter. Great discussion
I had been using ported subs my whole life, until a few years ago when i picked up a SVS SB-2000 to round out my current greatroom hometheater. All i can say is . . . WOW! Sealed subs for the win!
It’s a very old system , servo subs are nothing short of awesome. Arnie nudell (infinity) used to experiment with it. I believe the infinity sigma has servo controlled woofers. Problem is indeed cost and prone to failure expensive to fix
@@MichelLinschoten I've had my share of experiences with Servo Subs. When done right, they can be very clean accurate and cocussive.Main drawback is that the really good ones are very expensive.to purchase.
This is funny, every time they're going to give their final thoughts they remember a special condition in a very specific set of circumstances and.... Away they go, off to the races again. At the very least six rounds of closing thoughts and if James had to choose one sub it/they would actually take up an entire wall and they wouldn't all be ported. Ported or sealed hmm. I've definitely made up my mind and concluded stick shift is better than an automatic transmission. Well except when there's a lot of traffic. However when driving on the freeway for the vast majority and you need to access the power to overtake a car stick shift. On second thought in an area with plenty of hills automatic transmissions are less stressful. Almost forgot, on performance tracks dual clutch transmissions are best and on mixed street and highway a continually variable speed transmission is the best compromise. Lol
You might say that the takeaway is that one design isn't entirely superior to the other; it depends on the circumstances of use. Manual vs automatic transmission is a pretty good analogy, actually, I wish I had thought of that!
@@jameslarson2277 couldn't agree more, I just had to throw in my two cents of sarcasm in after what almost felt like intentionally jerking me around with multiple closing thoughts. I appreciate how thorough and passionate these dudes are on a conversation topic which could carry on all night.
@@FitraHomestead My apologies James, I wasn't sure didn't want to assume as to not make an (as the saying goes) ass out of myself. Failed miserably, thanks for the heads up @Audio Fun and thanks of course to @James Larsen, Mr. Larsen for taking the time to break down what specs we need to take into consideration and what we not waste our time and money on since they're not audible to the human ear or practically negligible and focus on what's really important to look for according to what our main listening entertainment needs are.
Louis Franco and as a 25th closing thought I’ll just add that sadly many of the specs of merit are not disclosed by manufacturers and when they are, may not be honest or comparable. James noted the amplitude response is the main metric of merit in bass sound quality. That means the flatness and amount of extension a subwoofer provides is the biggest factor in sound quality. Related to that notion is how loud it plays. If the subwoofer begins to compress or distort, not only can that start to impact the response but we instantly get pulled out of the moment and begin paying attention to this non-linearity. So CEA-2010 is a very important metric, a frequency sweep in an anechoic environment is a very important metric, but few companies can or do provide this. Then I added the issue of group delay. Clearly not as vital to sound quality as the response and loudness, but it matters none the less. Nobody provides that data. Thankfully we at Audioholics provide this information in our reviews. P.s. I’m the other guy in the video next to James. We are passionate. Great fun at cocktail parties.
I've had both over the years. For LFE for watching movies, a good ported one will satisfy. For music, I think sealed sounds tighter, accurate and generally more pleasing to listen to.
24:24 I think by "slower" they mean you get a more "air-y" sound, like it's not as punchy because it gets that opening to let the air escape. - I can use guitar-cabinets as an example, or heck, even headphones; When you have an open back cabinet or headphone cans it just sounds more "open" as well. As in, you get a sound that "escapes" or spreads more, which does give you a "grander" sound, BUT, it's also not as direct and, as said, punchy. Which probably has people arguing that ported subwoofers respond more slowly and have this kind of air-y cusion-y sound. Which I can believe. I only have subwoofers that are ported, I think... But the ones I've used most definitely are quite... "soft". Like they might be able to thud, but they definitely seem like they deliver less pressure in a way. Again, they have that port for the pressure to escape through. - One fun feature is that when you have a port on the front that is up high enough, you get somewhat of a wind-effect during explosions and such, and not just the sound or vibrations. XD
When I was shopping for subwoofers, I read more than once that ported subs provided powerful bass best suited to home theater systems and watching movies. But ported subs can be too boom-y for music. If music is the primary interest, than a sealed sub fits the system better. I listen mostly to music, so I got two SVS SB2000’s and they compliment my system well.
Your sealed sub has less output power in the region of 20 - 40hz. It‘s just not as loud as a ported at the same power level. You just don‘t hear you sub and that is why you and other think it‘s blends better with your speakers for music. If your ported sub is to loud or to boomy, just turn it down or just set it right. Besides the size, there is no advantage of a sealed sub.
There are so many compromised and bad ported/band pass subwoofers in the market place that looking at ported performance from SVS, HSU or JL does not resonate (ha ha) with the public. While I love the measurements, what we needed to see was the averaged response from every sealed sub and every ported subwoofer ever sold. This would have made the argument a slam dunk for Matt. Then you could have shared the measurement data from SVS and HSU to show your audience that they should focus on the quality of their subwoofer purchase rather than the design type. Lastly would have loved to hear servo subs and the REL recommendation of using high level inputs rather than RCAs thrown in the discussion. Perhaps a part 2? Great video! Thumbs way up guys. Keep em coming.
It's nice that you mentioned it:the "ported vs sealed" debate seems to be all around subwoofers whereas most speaker designes, even in the high end range, prefer using some sort of ported design (bassreflex, PR, TL,..).
great technical discussion - very knowledgable. however, at the end of the day, it all comes down to listening to what sounds best for you, your music, and your room and system.
Slightly smaller SB 2000's for me, as we have a very small viewing/listening area, and these little babies make the walls flex, with zero boom or one note bass. Sealed subs are the way to go.
I had a choice between a single PB16 and dual SB16.... I chose dual SB16, so hopefully both of those together can dig down and hit those lower frequencies. They should be arriving any day now.
What was your impression of them? I have 2xsb4000 and I love them but feel they struggle a bit at certain times. In the end I had to accept that you can't just crank a sealed sub up until the room almost caves in, they weren't meant for that, but they still rock.
Face down driver means that any sag of the cone, due to gravity - is more symmetrical. Sealed designs need more stiffness and more bracing, though this is largely moot, because they can be smaller. A larger box is harder to keep from resonating.
Appreciate the conversation and knowledge shared. I am just learning about these products and before jumping in I’d like to choose the right design for my living room.
I noticed something interesting...a few years ago SVS's website had an info page about their executive associates. Within this info, they told us what subwoofer they used in their home systems. Almost all of them were using a sealed design subwoofer.
I’d be more interested in what their audio engineers were using more than executives. Thanks for sharing though. That is interesting. I use both ported & sealed in two different systems without mixing them in each rig. 👍🏼😎
I feel like ported subs produce bass sounds when you dont want them to and sealed subs are just clean and produce bass when bass is present. Sealed sounds so good.
@Mark Godfrey In my experience Minus4Plus6 is right. By "sound better" do you mean louder? I don't like the time-smearing of ports. The accuracy of sealed boxes is impressive.
@@dreamdiction I disagree, I have heard many bas reflex subs which don't smear anything, they actually have as good if not better pitch definition than some acoustic suspension subwoofers.There can also be lower distortion with bass reflex subwoofers when used properly due to the higher efficiency from venting the cabinet. this allows the system to use less, power thereby relieving the amplifier of the need to drive the woofer harder than is necessary to produce the desired volume.
All speakers have that problem, all speakers have problems starting and stopping in perfect response to the musical signal, including acoustic suspension speakers and subwoofers.When the port , speaker,cabinet and amplifier are properly integrated,the speed and definition of a bass reflex speaker/subwoofer can be as accurate as an an acoustic suspension speaker/subwoofer.
@Mark Godfrey Download WinISD, to minimise the group delay in a ported box you have to build it really small and choke the sub and sacrifice most of the SPL from the port. (latency/boom even after the sound stops playing), you can't have both max SPL and max SQL in a ported box. with a sealed box the only downside is you need more subs to add more bass. sealed boxes can be built very small and save space. All music sounds good on sealed, most music/rap sounds good on ported, but when the sub tries to deliver instant transient responses it fails because of the group delay. e.g. this one sounds like crap on a high SPL ported box but sounds great on a sealed box: ruclips.net/video/RmJl05Ucts0/видео.html
@@addonisryan I agree with what you said very much. A high quality well made and designed bass reflex doesnt just go boom boom boom and that's it lol. My klipsch monitors hit hard solid thumps like sealed would to smooth insane lows to mid bass to every tone in the music arsenal you can think of and way louder. I'm telling you all that idea that sealed is tight and ported not is not correct.
Very good discussion. Imo James makes a crucial point, the gist of which was something like this: "What matters most to the ears is the [in-room] frequency response." Factor in room gain and a "flat-measuring" ported sub may well have too much output down low, which tends to sound slow and/or boomy. But room gain is insufficient to offset the rolloff of a sealed sub below its resonant frequency, so a sealed box sub usually needs EQ. In my opinion the correct target curve for subwoofer design would take into account anticipated room gain, and based on my modelling that's easier to achieve with a ported box. Matt's description of the ported sub in his room (low tuned, undersized for the woofer) sounds like it MIGHT be designed like this, but I can't tell from afar without knowing a lot of specifics. If you do multisubs and run into the issue of too much very low bass, because the subs are located within a relatively small fraction of a wavelength if one another and are therefore approximately in-phase, one solution is to simply reverse the polarity of one of the subs. If necessary, pull the driver and switch the wires.
Hi, Gene, I improved sound of my PSB 6i subwoofer a lot simply by putting a marble plate (15x17 inch) on top of the subwoofer. It improved the boominess a lot. My sub was tested by Sound&Vision to be a good sub to begin with. The improvement cab easily heard. I have no way to measure it. If you see this message, please try it and measure it in terms of FR and distortion. Thanks,
This is my thought on the matter. Ported vs. non-ported used to matter more than it does today. The issue with ported is that people say it will ring because it doesn't have the spring force of the compressed air behind the speaker cone. This used to matter, but with modern hi power servo class D amps the speaker has a lot of power to control the motion of the speaker, and you get the improved low end response - lower freq available for those few instances where it is part of the music. I vote for ported with the high power class D amps. I personally have the SB 13 Ultra (no longer being made), and it is great. I have one of the 3 ports plugged and it is tuned to, I think, 16 Hz.
Nothing about QTC or bass reflex alignments and how they compare? I think this is probably the most important aspect on subwoofers. But I will say you have covered this in some of your articles although it would of been nice to hear it covered in this vid.
I've noticed fiberglass fill fibers building up on some of my speaker's grills in front of the ports. Could be a health concern, I usually use tape to remove the fibers from the grill fabric, noticed it on several different speaker models. Also of concern especially with vintage speakers from the 1980's ish is that the particle board can use adhesives that off-gass formaldehyde, even decades later. I wouldn't trust every manufacturer around the world to be sourcing their modern MDF to be free of formaldehyde either, even if the design calls for a higher grade, you never know what corners the outsourced manufacturer will cut. It's not uncommon for a high end paint or glue to be sold off by the manufacturer, and then substituted by a cheaper one bought locally. We saw that in the lead paint scandal a few years ago. Sealing a sub would keep allot of potential contaminants in the box, and the outer surfaces layered in veneer. Maybe formaldehyde levels should be a measured, reviewed spec? I also hear beryllium is pretty nasty stuff to work with too. Is there a regulatory agency that keeps up with potential exposure to consumers? I wouldn't worry too much about the drivers coming to pieces, but dust from the facility may be of concern.
i think most acoustic treatment type products inside speakers is that white synthetic wool type stuff. but wow interesting you found fiberglass on the grills. what speakers / era we talking about though w those?
I have a few questions about powered subwoofers. However, many people rarely reply to questions so I'll wait to see If you guys interact with your followers
Thank you all for nerding out on this subject. I think that all bass playback - is the toughest part of playback of music. Another aspect with subwoofers - is how low the main speakers are going to play. If the sub only needs to cover the bottom octave (20-40Hz) than it can be designed to do that; without having to cover what is needed to blend with a smaller main speaker. Which brings up another issue - for a music system, at least - is the phase blending of a subwoofer(s) with the main speakers; based on the different distances from the speaker to the listener. The moving mass of a woofer driver has a lot to do with the transient response - and with the settling time. Drums have a lot of low bass. A 5 or 6 (or 7) string electric bass guitar hit about 31Hz on the open bottom string. A 4 string bass hit ~41Hz on the open bottom string.
Not a great idea to limit subs to only 40Hz. Ideally you want multi-sub strategically located around the room to tame modal behavior for the entire bandwidth of non-directional bass (80Hz and lower).
@@Audioholics I am suggesting that a sub could be optimized to play the bottom octave, and to be rolled off above that so that it can have less compromise in its coverage. But some small main speakers really need the sub to play to 150Hz of even 200Hz, so that type of sub would have to make different choices in design.
I recently did a song comparison with deep bass. Setup 1) JL Audio 10W6v3 in JL's ported high output box w/ JLA 500/1 regulated amplifier VS Setup 2) JL Audio flagship 10W7AE in JL's sealed box w/ JLA HD750/1. I love them both! The ported sub sounds so good and gets nice and deep BUT the sealed sub in my SUV has a TWK88 DSP where I turn down the 50hz, and boost the 35hz with PEQ. This approach flattened the response much deeper that no PEQ on that sealed sub and guess what!? It gets deeper than the ported, but at the expense of all the power of the amp (750W) throwing the high excursion 10W7 super hard at the low end, and it sounds so freaking good! That in my option is by far the better option, if you have the money for high excursion and tons of power. Just look at JL's home theater subs. They're sealed with tons of power and DSP to flatten the response.
I know i'm probably late to the party but just saw this. The Rhythmic F18's are fantastic. You can read my user review here if interested.... tomsmultiinterest.com/av-equipment-reviews-2#011607d5-050f-4852-bafb-ac628805104d or here ... www.avnirvana.com/threads/holy-subwoofers-batman-a-end-user-review-of-the-rythmik-f18-18-sealed-box-subwoofer.3873/
There is another option - *mass loaded transmission line*; which has a lot of advantages over both sealed and ported designs, I think. RSL Speedwoofer is essentially a TL subwoofer.
47:37 "people don't want to admit this but, most music doesn't have any content below 70Hz" You lost all credibility with that dumb statement. The resonant frequency of a 22" kick drum is 60Hz. Why do you think a Neve console sets it's bottom EQ point at 63Hz and it's lowest turn over point at 31.5Hz!
@@keithmoriyama5421 It's simple; Matt is right. MOST music doesn't go that low, outside of rendered instruments (electro, rap, etc) and as you've mentioned: kickdrums, bass guitars, organs, etc. Of those instruments, only a minority of notes go below 70hz. Now, compare that number with all other possible instruments including of course all their respective ranges. See how puny 70hz or less is in real content? Does that answer your question?
What I find really interesting, is that harmonics ride frequencies lower than them. Meaning inaudible (sub-sonic) frequencies could give a harmonic volume boost to higher audible sounds, which may be one of those hidden perceptions of preference people are always talking about. Kind of an interesting thing to think about in relation to phase coherence through the crossover network and then the sub integration. Would we want to optimize for these harmonics, or reduce them? Is the optimal position for our sub going to cause destructive interference harmonically, by being in the wrong place at the wrong time?
SwirlingDragonMist if our body can have a “memory” that conflicts with our conscious mind, then the feeling perceived by the body during listening would have some input compared to what the ears can detect. In my truck Rockford put vibration things on the seats. Even though I know they’re there, I almost forget about it and it just feels like good bass. So I think these things combined provide plenty of reason to take the inaudible fq into account.
@@cardiobroker Very interesting! I believe much of our fascination with musical beats is from hearing our mother's heartbeat while we are in the womb. Particularly correlating elevated heart rates and oxytocin from when our mom was... excited.
Wait, you show the sealed has having a lower response then the ported. I thought it was suppose to be the opposite? The sealed is the green line right.
Wait, 40:40 so my aluminum radiator on my plate amp acts as a passive porthole, structurally? That makes zero sense to me! How can a finned aluminum block act as a porthole EDIT: dispelled my confusion. A speaker driver referred to as a passive radiator is certainly something I found odd and did not anticipate, haha. On what basis is it called a radiator? What does it radiate? Sound pressure, or vibration? Those don't sound as qualities that would be radiated.
I enjoyed the part about passive radiator subs. My Boston Acoustics VPS-210 just kicked the bucket after 11 years and I was bummed! The VPS-210 had a passive radiator and it did vibrate all over the damn place. But I would have to say it sounded amazing for music and got decently low for a 10”. I loved that sub, but I am excited to hear the SB-2000 pro I just ordered. I don’t have a ton of experience with subs, so I am anxious to compare them.
Hey guys thanks for the info. Question for you all. I'm using sealed subs now (SVS SB12-NSD), but my full range speakers (Pioneer Elites by Andrew Jones) have ports in the back. Should I plug those ports on the mains and surrounds so the entire 7.3.4 system is comprised of sealed speakers? The AVR crossover is set to 100hz now.
Can you do a talk an the brands that do the dual Push Pull drivers (dual opposed drivers?) such as M&K MX-350THX, Perlisten D212, Rythmik G25hp. What other brands? Im not talking Iso-baric design.
Just now watched, and no mention of subs that use passive radiators, and no mention of open baffle subwoofers they both have significant benefits worth addressing, I'm currently working on two subwoofer builds each with a 15in Dayton passive radiator an two 15in DVC subwoofers each one total size is a foot deep by 19.3in wide by 49in high so a bit tall and wide but very shallow, the benefit of radiator in custom built is sometimes a flexible foot print for the size and whight of the box... Gene I'd like to see you do an indepth review and discussion on the pros and cons of subs for ported vs sealed vs radiator vs open baffle both manufactured and diy custom built
I think it all depends on the listener’s preference. It is almost the listeners feelings about the sound. I like sealed but have had ported sun, both sound good. After many tears of a ported sub to a sealed sub. There seems to be a difference but I cannot define it.
Why all the dislike for "Port Of Subs??? Their sandwiches are so much better than the subs made by"Subway" And they actually offer a reuben sandwich on their menu. So lets hear it for "Port Of Subs" You guys need to expand your horizons when it comes to lunch fare, You haven't even mentioned Quiznos!! LOL!!@ LMFAO I'm just fooling around Gene! Actually this is a very interesting conversation with a lot of good points made.
I have 3060s q acoustics sub. What's the upgrade then ? Pb 2000 Pro or sb 2000 in room 4x4meters. I'm listening to music playing games and watching movies.
sb-1000 24hz-260hz sealed pb-1000 18hz-270hz ported sealed- fast clean clear responsive bass... 👍👍 music and gaming small-medium room ported- deep dominating scary ground shaking bass... "in a good way" movies and gaming medium-large room my choice- BOTH! ported up front (in a corner maybe) on a foam pad blasting air at you giving you depth, and a sense of real presence and feeling! sealed closest to main listening position on 4 inches of gel under each footing giving you fast clean balanced well timed connective sense to all your surround and height channels! thoughts- I have a high end $1000 700watt sub (ported) that I don't use... the only thing id want to hear it do is a car explosion in a movie it can shake my house down, it has NO musicality I have a 12 inch $250 200watt Cerwin Vega (ported) one of favorite subs ever, use it every day, music is SO sweet with it, paired with focals In my experience music sounds better with subs that are between 8 and 12 inches with wattage power between 50 to 300 watts (unless your in a large concrete walled basement theater) nice way to go is set your ported frnt to an 80hz max to focus on the low end and set your sealed center room sub too max hz it wont create as much room boominess up on gel in the middle of room in my experience, which might seem counter intuitive... Final thought- subs basically turn your room into a speaker especially with ported. even more so than speakers your room's walls dictate the sound you receive. the "right" sub for you might be tricky to pin down, however with a sealed sub up in the air a bit on some gel you can negate a lot of your room's sound so, I think SEALED is the safest choice to blindly spring for, just make sure you get the right power output for your room size! If your on a budget and want biggest "boom" for your buck to watch movies, spring for PORTED...
What about sealed subwoofer with passive radiator, instructions uncleared, sold my house and bought the biggest subwoofer I could find and now I sleep inside it :)
We set the receiver auto-calibration May do a better job. YPAO is particularly bad with EQ and has also gotten the time delay wrong. I’m a big hater on YPAO. I keep trying to give it the benefit of the doubt with each new iteration and walk away seriously unimpressed. So should you use it? If you have no other measurement capability, yes. If you have any other measurement capability, then no I wouldn’t use it per say. What I would do is use it for initial setup. Then go in and turn the eq portion off but leave the delays in tact. Measure with REW or a similar measurement software. Then look at the group delay or wavelet plots to assess how accurate the time alignment between subwoofer and mains are? If it doesn’t match, you adjust accordingly in the setup. I do this by adding distance to the subwoofer or, if not possible, adding distance to the mains. It has the same effect in the end.
Great video, it is very germane to me. My winter project is to build a subwooofer enclosure. My first question is: If you put several ports, like 3, can the ports be turned to different frequencies to extend the response of the subwoofer over a greater range of frequencies? I am not using a plate amplifier because I have 2 old receivers on hand which I am not using. Will a receiver drive a passive subwoofer from one of its main outputs directly, or do I need to use Low Pass filter? The receivers have low voltage subwoofer inputs.
Steve Bonin in practice it won’t work that way. The ports basically act as one but by changing the length slightly you get a slightly different and unpredictable set of resonances. Think of the port as a high Q peaking filter. Then imagine mixing three together. Now imagine the net response is the frequency of each is slightly different. This is what happens. Some people use it as a means to widen the Q of the port tuning, but it’s not a common practice and for a reason. The final result can be a sub with much higher group delay, unpredictable performance, and no meaningful improvement in room performance.
Steve Bonin yeah that is a way of thinking about it. Though in parallel is probably a better analogy. When you put three ports into an enclosure of a fixed length and diameter, and it’s the same for all of them, they work together the same as a port of that depth but with an area equal to the total area is all the ports together. It’s like making the port diameter larger, and if you don’t lengthen the port, the tuning frequencies dramatically increases. When you put three ports in a box and you vary their length you see that same basic behavior, but you also see some perturbation of the frequency from the contribution of each port. It’s sort of like lowering the Q, but the actual response of the ports looks more like a Trimodal response with three distinct peaks. I have no idea what would happen if you built a sub with three ports and they were dramatically different sizes. I’m sure it can be modeled in PSpice. Now if what you want is to take advantage of these resonant devices to extend the bandwidth and output of a system with excursion control over a wider range, take a look at the ABC box. It’s a form of 8th order bass reflex box with two distinct tuning frequencies and this excursion nulls. Of course, no free lunch, it’s group delay is much higher than normal and there is a null in the response.
FSXgta⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻ he had something else in mind. He wanted three tunings at the same time. But that is a nice thing about PR’s in DIY subs. You can change the tuning at will. See what sounds best to you in your room.
I just wanted to ask though can’t we plug the ports for a ported sub so it sounds like a sealed subwoofer. So I could buy a pb-3000, with the port plugs, and so when I want to listen to music, I could seal the sub, so I could get to at least close to what the sealed version would give me, while it is not possible to add ports to a sealed sub woofer.
I wish you guys would have mentioned the Sonos Sub. I live in a condo now days and I have a sonos system but no sub. The lady who lives below me is 87. Im pretty sure her hearing is going and I'm about to buy a sub. Is the sonos sub good or bad cuz I went to Best Buy and they didn't have it hooked up. (My last subs were a ported 12" alpine and a sealed 13.5" JL W7)
Of course the Sonos Sub is not good. www.avsforum.com/threads/sonos-sub-what-are-the-real-specs.2090930/ "The Sonos sub uses 2 6'' woofers in a ported push pull configuration enclosure. Based on the enclosure and the size of the port, I'd say the tuning is around 45Hz with a -3dB of 40Hz. Sonos uses some good amount of bass EQ boost on their speakers to extend bass response, and most likely they applied some bass boost based on what I heard. I'd guess it is a 3-6dB boost at around 50Hz to make it sound powerful since boosting below the tuning frequency is pretty much useless."
I use a Sonos sub in my living room to supplement the ceiling speakers for casual distributed audio. It’s fine for that. I’d never put it in my home theater. I have Hsu for that.
I've never used a sealed sub but I recently built an auxiliary sub to go with my BIC pl200 sub for my home theater because I had a spare 100w plate amp. So I grabbed a cheap Cerwin Vega XED 10 an stuck it in a .88 cf box, it tossed a nice little bump to other side of the room, anywho I plopped it in my minivan to compare to my Polk db12 on a 200+w amp, it was eye opening. The sealed had nice tight sound but not much boom and it lapped up every watt in my amp and wanted more and my ported 12 bumps with the same wattage. I'll say for efficiency to best results per watt ported hands down...for music with moderate but clean smooth sound sealed hands down. Now the sound of big wattage to big multiple woofers? Never experienced that I'd assume as much low bass as you would ever need...
Making a cabinet right now with a couple ported holes and then I'm going to get some foam and make it sealed pending out if I'm watching movies or I'm just listening to typical 80s rock music
Passive radiator does the same as a port, but it's more expensive than a tube. It has no unwanted "blow" noises typical with small diameter ports. Kef 104 aB is classic hifi speaker example with a passive element.
have you done the isolator video? I've built a ~400 lb steel subwoofer enclosure, top-firing, and used bicycle seat springs to isolate it from the hardwood floor (2.75" thick floor including subfloor). I'm not sure if I completely wasted my time...
This was a very good discussion. I learned that James has an unsteady voice wise in the beginnings but once he got started, he got locked in and I quite enjoyed him presenting his reasoning why ported where better than sealed subwoofers. He brought the fact that sealed also distort in their smaller locked volume. No thanks, I don't want a wall full of sealed subs. I will take a large well made sub.
Great discussion basically more sub the better but i am in Australia and we get ripped off so i can only afford one sub for now my room 7 meters long and 5 meters wide and i cant choose between the svs 2000pro ported or the rel 1205 thoughts and help ?
I havent watched the whole thing yet, and I have still a pretty rudimentary understanding of sealed vs ported, but I always understood sealed has more accurate bass (didn't realize about the low end advantage), while ported required a lot less effort to create loud bass but the accuracy and/or subtle bass are not as good. Im guessing that this might apply more to the lower end and basic consumer stuff more? Like, I have heard sealed will only have beefy bass if the enclosure is larger *or* the drive is a lot more powerful/harder to drive. This probably doesn't affect high end market as much, as Im guessing sealed speakers and subs are expected to have more powerful drivers in there? While a moderate consumer speaker with a adequate woofer that isn't too hard to drive, in a modest size/volume enclosure probably won't sound as beefy, but should sound pretty "fine" and accurate? And a cheap ported sub (be it in some cheap PC speaker set or cheap soundbar) might sound loud but runs the risk of running more boomy and less refined? My limited experience with Hifi speakers only consists of sealed and passive radiators, while I have mostly only heard cheaper or more affordable speakers or subs with ports, so that could also probably distort my understanding.
I don't believe you have heard a high quality well designed and built ported hi fi system and what it can sound like. If you live In or around south Florida I invite you to my house to hear my klipsch setup so you hear it. What people say is not true that it's not musical and all that. Not every ported system goes boom boom boom and that's it. You wont believe how just two 6.5" woofers and two titanium horns can sound and no exposed wires or sound source. They are magically playing out of thin air on the dresser. You will be dancing more than the speakers for sure. It's clear and loud and you hear every detail with all types of bass tones.
I prefer ported as you can tune them more into your system, I find sealed have to be turned up to get the depth of bass this can be a problem at night time
Put a 12 dB / octave filter at 40 Hz in a high end SVS ported sub and compare it to it's sealed brother. For all the hate of ported, I'd love to see how many people can tell them apart in a double blind.
Gud point made by Kames abt passive radiator being inefficient as they keep moving on ground. We got 2 subs in the family,Elac3010 n 3030. The 3010 is such tiny sub that the passive rad moves so much that the just keeps rattling and moves frm its place.No such issue with the bigger 3030 12 inch sub as the enclosure is much bigger and heavier. Lesson learnt that i wd never buy a sealed sub with passive radiator esp when its a smaller enclosure. The solution i found is that i turned the sub 90degs so that the passive rad faces to the side instead of downward.now the sub doesnt move as the air frm passive rad doesn't have any resistance. I wrote to Andrew jones on the same,but didnt get any answers.
The lowest note on a 5- and 6-string bass is 31Hz. The lowest note on a 4-string bass is 42Hz. Bass drums are typically tuned to around 50Hz. So there should be plenty of important information in the 40-50Hz range, but not as much as in the >70Hz range of course.
Simple answer. Same size sealed will sound better and go deeper then ported boxes cause sealed subwoofer is typically lower than the driver's VAS so if i make a ported box with the same size, i will get boomy bass around the 60-80hz. If i have a sealed sub and a ported one that is tuned deeper, my ported will be 6 db ish louder then the sealed one at the tuning point and the sealed will catch up at around 1/2 octave of the tuning. (Depends on the box). Lets day i have a sealed sub and a ported sub (ported tuned to 20hz). The ported will be louder at 17-25 ish (maybe wider, depends) but the sealed will roughly catch up at around 14hz ish (dk the exact number) No box is better. It all depends on space. If u want smaller box and you want deep, go sealed. If you have space and loudness, go ported. If i had the budget, i would go for multiple sealed subs since if i couple them, they have less group delay and really just is a faster sub all around. Sorry for my english btw
Servo is the way you go, end of story. Once you go servo, you'll never go back. Very accurate, clean, and tight. The best affordable brand is Rythmic. I have the f18 and it's amazing.
James was quite rude at many points here. Whereas Matthew let James make every point of his completely before countering, James interrupted Matt before he could finish any of his points. I would not tolerate that behavior in Matt's shoes. Good on him for being so patient
@@demonreturns4336 In fact, your reply has made me cry 😢 I know they're cool with each other. I wouldn't be surprised if they are friends. I just meant to convey that there is an "etiquette" of sorts to debating, and it's sort of hard to articulate a point when your interlocutor won't even let you finish it. Even if they're cool, which I'm sure they are, I call it rude. Sue me.
Look at Ascendo Immersive Audio they have Infrasonic subwoofers 24" , 32" and 50" they are all Sealed the 50" can do 140dB max . The 24" and 32" have world Record 9cm linear excursion. They are to be considered to be the best subwoofers at the moment. They also have 6 kilowatt amplification inside. Best regards Hermann
@@MichelLinschoten what I meant is that those subwoofers go much deeper than the ported subwoofers and give better control you can easily fit a 24"Infrasonic subwoofer into a 6x6m room to add to your normal subwoofers.
Bought 2 SVS SB-4000 subs. The pair gives huge amounts of output down to my ability to hear and shakes the floor with the frequencies that I cannot. Tested them musically with Primus “Sailing the Sea of Cheese” Blu-ray/cd. Les Claypool the master of bass for the win.
Sealed sub designs are not after SPL; they're after tight, clean, controlled bass that sounds like the instrument that made it as opposed to just sounding like non-descript low frequencies. That's sort of OK for movies, but not at all OK for pipe organ or plucked strings. Sealed subs sound tighter and more musical across the board, plus they are more controlled and less apt to piss off the neighbors in an HT system. My music systems, which occasionally double as HT systems, use sealed SVS subs. I don't watch movies at the ear-killing SPLs that ported subs seem designed to produce, and neither should anyone else. Every terrible-sounding sub I've ever heard was a ported design played loudly to demonstrate "how much bass" it could make.
There's a delay in the sound output of the port because of the length of it. The longer the longer the delay. That also contributes to the less accurate sound.
Love the videos Gene! I have heard you say that you apply HPF's to your sealed subs to match the roll off of your ported subs. I understand that this is to keep them relatively phase aligned so they don't cancel each other. I don't know enough about EQ, but could an all pass filter on the sealed subs work in your situation? The idea being to get the phase shift you need to keep them aligned to your ported subs but without sacrificing their low end
Yes absolutely but most products don't have that feature. In all honesty, the best policy is to use the same bass alignment for ALL subs to avoid this even being an issue. Good point.
How about Isobaric Loading of "twin bass" drivers ? Plus, Does that arrangement (Isobaric) work well in a Ported Design (to include a 'Transmission Line')verses a Sealed Box ?
Yes it does, the benefit is alot of output from smaller box, but imo it's better to give each subwoofer it's own box and run duals. This way you smooth out the frequency response in a room
@@RoaroftheTiger if I was building this, I would do dual opposed sealed or ported/Tline to cancel out cabinet vibration. Isobaric is good if you have limited space though, but a little more tricky to build
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
The three musketeers, yous work so well together, loved every minute
I really enjoyed this video. It amazes me how much Matt & James know about subwoofers.
@Mark Godfrey O:
Conclusion at 1:05:45 "If they are designed correctly, the efficiency advantage is worth it."
In other words you get more bang for buck with a ported sub (more output at say 16-24Hz for the money), and its shortcomings shouldn't be audible if you get one with good measured performance.
Effeciency, ok. Sound quality? Sorry, SEALED wins that race. We're not all looking for bang. Honestly, I would not go ported again, unless I wanted a super low and loud noisy laggy bass. No offense, I LOVE deep and loud, but sealed drivers today offer more than just bang.
When hugo left, some of the magic of this channel went with him. This is my favorite video in awhile. Keep up content like this please. This is similar to home theater geeks, which I miss so much..
I miss my namesake too
Gene mentioned the room transition frequency in our video and i see some were not sure what that is. The room transition frequency, Schroeder frequency, or room FS refers to a point at which the room transitions from modal to stochastic behavior.
Say what?
If you look at the measurements in a room you will see that from 20hz to 50hz the room goes from just one mode to a small handful of widely spaced modes. Then from 50hz to about 150hz the room rapidly transitions into many more peaks and dips, the number of modes increases dramatically. After this point the number of modes becomes so high and so dense that you simply can’t see the distinct effect anymore.
The point at which this transition takes place depends on the side of the room and how reverberant it is.
Stochastic means statistical and in simple terms it means that you can understand what the modes are in the room at any point in time or space via a statistical distribution. Further, if you took a sample of measurements with a mic in the same room and never moved the mic, you would find that every measurement (assuming fine enough resolution like little to no smoothing) is slightly different.
The stochastic zone is best treated differently than the modal zone. Modal zone is best treated with things like multiple subwoofers, optimal sub placement, bass traps, and modest EQ. The stochastic zone is best treated with a very different kind of optimal placement, a very different kind of acoustic treatment (such as less absorption, scattering, diffusion, normal reflection), and generally no eq. It’s also a critical region where what the microphone picks up no longer matches well with what our ears hear.
To see James become so animated describing his favourite subwoofers was really enjoyable. He stayed calm when Matt was poking him with a pointy stick about ported subwoofers being best, but when it came to his favourite subs, that was a different matter. Great discussion
I had been using ported subs my whole life, until a few years ago when i picked up a SVS SB-2000 to round out my current greatroom hometheater. All i can say is . . . WOW!
Sealed subs for the win!
What about servo controlled subs? The pro and cons of this design . Love here your thoughts.
what is a con to servo control other than cost and one more thing that can break?
It’s a very old system , servo subs are nothing short of awesome. Arnie nudell (infinity) used to experiment with it. I believe the infinity sigma has servo controlled woofers.
Problem is indeed cost and prone to failure expensive to fix
@@MichelLinschoten I've had my share of experiences with Servo Subs. When done right, they can be very clean accurate and cocussive.Main drawback is that the really good ones are very expensive.to purchase.
Pro: MUCH more friendly to cheaper drivers
Cons: when the amp runs out of gas, the distortion from the amp plus driver is 🤮
Well Gene, you were honest upfront. "Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends".
The combination of Gene and Matt make the most interesting duo to listen too online regarding hifi. Keep up the good work
This is funny, every time they're going to give their final thoughts they remember a special condition in a very specific set of circumstances and.... Away they go, off to the races again. At the very least six rounds of closing thoughts and if James had to choose one sub it/they would actually take up an entire wall and they wouldn't all be ported. Ported or sealed hmm. I've definitely made up my mind and concluded stick shift is better than an automatic transmission. Well except when there's a lot of traffic. However when driving on the freeway for the vast majority and you need to access the power to overtake a car stick shift. On second thought in an area with plenty of hills automatic transmissions are less stressful. Almost forgot, on performance tracks dual clutch transmissions are best and on mixed street and highway a continually variable speed transmission is the best compromise. Lol
You might say that the takeaway is that one design isn't entirely superior to the other; it depends on the circumstances of use. Manual vs automatic transmission is a pretty good analogy, actually, I wish I had thought of that!
@@jameslarson2277 couldn't agree more, I just had to throw in my two cents of sarcasm in after what almost felt like intentionally jerking me around with multiple closing thoughts. I appreciate how thorough and passionate these dudes are on a conversation topic which could carry on all night.
@@LouisGFranco James is one of these dudes ;)
@@FitraHomestead My apologies James, I wasn't sure didn't want to assume as to not make an (as the saying goes) ass out of myself. Failed miserably, thanks for the heads up @Audio Fun and thanks of course to @James Larsen, Mr. Larsen for taking the time to break down what specs we need to take into consideration and what we not waste our time and money on since they're not audible to the human ear or practically negligible and focus on what's really important to look for according to what our main listening entertainment needs are.
Louis Franco and as a 25th closing thought I’ll just add that sadly many of the specs of merit are not disclosed by manufacturers and when they are, may not be honest or comparable.
James noted the amplitude response is the main metric of merit in bass sound quality. That means the flatness and amount of extension a subwoofer provides is the biggest factor in sound quality. Related to that notion is how loud it plays. If the subwoofer begins to compress or distort, not only can that start to impact the response but we instantly get pulled out of the moment and begin paying attention to this non-linearity. So CEA-2010 is a very important metric, a frequency sweep in an anechoic environment is a very important metric, but few companies can or do provide this.
Then I added the issue of group delay. Clearly not as vital to sound quality as the response and loudness, but it matters none the less. Nobody provides that data. Thankfully we at Audioholics provide this information in our reviews.
P.s. I’m the other guy in the video next to James. We are passionate. Great fun at cocktail parties.
I've had both over the years. For LFE for watching movies, a good ported one will satisfy. For music, I think sealed sounds tighter, accurate and generally more pleasing to listen to.
@Melvin Ace no, we don’t
Absolutely - sealed all the way
24:24 I think by "slower" they mean you get a more "air-y" sound, like it's not as punchy because it gets that opening to let the air escape. - I can use guitar-cabinets as an example, or heck, even headphones; When you have an open back cabinet or headphone cans it just sounds more "open" as well. As in, you get a sound that "escapes" or spreads more, which does give you a "grander" sound, BUT, it's also not as direct and, as said, punchy. Which probably has people arguing that ported subwoofers respond more slowly and have this kind of air-y cusion-y sound. Which I can believe. I only have subwoofers that are ported, I think... But the ones I've used most definitely are quite... "soft". Like they might be able to thud, but they definitely seem like they deliver less pressure in a way. Again, they have that port for the pressure to escape through. - One fun feature is that when you have a port on the front that is up high enough, you get somewhat of a wind-effect during explosions and such, and not just the sound or vibrations. XD
When I was shopping for subwoofers, I read more than once that ported subs provided powerful bass best suited to home theater systems and watching movies. But ported subs can be too boom-y for music. If music is the primary interest, than a sealed sub fits the system better. I listen mostly to music, so I got two SVS SB2000’s and they compliment my system well.
That's false factually and only true in people's opinions. Ported subs are more than fine for music.
Depends on the music. If you listen to Rap, R&B, Techno or electro music then a ported sub is better.
Your sealed sub has less output power in the region of 20 - 40hz. It‘s just not as loud as a ported at the same power level. You just don‘t hear you sub and that is why you and other think it‘s blends better with your speakers for music. If your ported sub is to loud or to boomy, just turn it down or just set it right. Besides the size, there is no advantage of a sealed sub.
There are so many compromised and bad ported/band pass subwoofers in the market place that looking at ported performance from SVS, HSU or JL does not resonate (ha ha) with the public. While I love the measurements, what we needed to see was the averaged response from every sealed sub and every ported subwoofer ever sold. This would have made the argument a slam dunk for Matt. Then you could have shared the measurement data from SVS and HSU to show your audience that they should focus on the quality of their subwoofer purchase rather than the design type. Lastly would have loved to hear servo subs and the REL recommendation of using high level inputs rather than RCAs thrown in the discussion. Perhaps a part 2? Great video! Thumbs way up guys. Keep em coming.
I'm pretty sure it's damping, not dampening. Unless you're talking about sub(marine)woofers.
Good videos boy's, I love the in depth discussion. Great information for people to chew on.
It's nice that you mentioned it:the "ported vs sealed" debate seems to be all around subwoofers whereas most speaker designes, even in the high end range, prefer using some sort of ported design (bassreflex, PR, TL,..).
Nice session, the information was very technical but well detailed.
great technical discussion - very knowledgable. however, at the end of the day, it all comes down to listening to what sounds best for you, your music, and your room and system.
I've moved towards higher end sealed subs over the years for multiple reasons. One being size and ease of reselling.
Now I see the difference between a PORTED and SEALED sub,very informative.Next time can you compare a FRONT FIRING sub vs a DOWN FIRING sub! Thanks
Time saver: For the answer to the question in the title... skip to 24:15 ruclips.net/video/nP57-RfSOPc/видео.html
I love all 3 of these dudes ♥️👍
I have the Martin Logan Balanced Force 210. What are your thoughts about this sub?
Do a video with SB 3000 vs PB 3000, great for compare sealed vs ported. I have two SB 3000 and i love they, amazing sub.
Slightly smaller SB 2000's for me, as we have a very small viewing/listening area, and these little babies make the walls flex, with zero boom or one note bass. Sealed subs are the way to go.
@@classicgalactica5879 Yes, i love sealed and love much more the svs hahahahah
Still love your SB3000? I am wondering if I should get rid rid of my 10" Klipsch for a pr of sb 2k or 3ks
@@Sky1 Yes i love the sb 3000 :)
I had a choice between a single PB16 and dual SB16....
I chose dual SB16, so hopefully both of those together can dig down and hit those lower frequencies.
They should be arriving any day now.
What was your impression of them? I have 2xsb4000 and I love them but feel they struggle a bit at certain times. In the end I had to accept that you can't just crank a sealed sub up until the room almost caves in, they weren't meant for that, but they still rock.
Face down driver means that any sag of the cone, due to gravity - is more symmetrical.
Sealed designs need more stiffness and more bracing, though this is largely moot, because they can be smaller. A larger box is harder to keep from resonating.
Appreciate the conversation and knowledge shared. I am just learning about these products and before jumping in I’d like to choose the right design for my living room.
I liked this video a lot! Great job guys
I noticed something interesting...a few years ago SVS's website had an info page about their executive associates. Within this info, they told us what subwoofer they used in their home systems. Almost all of them were using a sealed design subwoofer.
I’d be more interested in what their audio engineers were using more than executives. Thanks for sharing though. That is interesting. I use both ported & sealed in two different systems without mixing them in each rig. 👍🏼😎
I feel like ported subs produce bass sounds when you dont want them to and sealed subs are just clean and produce bass when bass is present. Sealed sounds so good.
@Mark Godfrey In my experience Minus4Plus6 is right. By "sound better" do you mean louder? I don't like the time-smearing of ports. The accuracy of sealed boxes is impressive.
@@dreamdiction I disagree, I have heard many bas reflex subs which don't smear anything, they actually have as good if not better pitch definition than some acoustic suspension subwoofers.There can also be lower distortion with bass reflex subwoofers when used properly due to the higher efficiency from venting the cabinet. this allows the system to use less, power thereby relieving the amplifier of the need to drive the woofer harder than is necessary to produce the desired volume.
All speakers have that problem, all speakers have problems starting and stopping in perfect response to the musical signal, including acoustic suspension speakers and subwoofers.When the port , speaker,cabinet and amplifier are properly integrated,the speed and definition of a bass reflex speaker/subwoofer can be as accurate as an an acoustic suspension speaker/subwoofer.
@Mark Godfrey Download WinISD, to minimise the group delay in a ported box you have to build it really small and choke the sub and sacrifice most of the SPL from the port. (latency/boom even after the sound stops playing), you can't have both max SPL and max SQL in a ported box. with a sealed box the only downside is you need more subs to add more bass. sealed boxes can be built very small and save space. All music sounds good on sealed, most music/rap sounds good on ported, but when the sub tries to deliver instant transient responses it fails because of the group delay. e.g. this one sounds like crap on a high SPL ported box but sounds great on a sealed box: ruclips.net/video/RmJl05Ucts0/видео.html
@@addonisryan I agree with what you said very much. A high quality well made and designed bass reflex doesnt just go boom boom boom and that's it lol. My klipsch monitors hit hard solid thumps like sealed would to smooth insane lows to mid bass to every tone in the music arsenal you can think of and way louder. I'm telling you all that idea that sealed is tight and ported not is not correct.
Very good discussion. Imo James makes a crucial point, the gist of which was something like this: "What matters most to the ears is the [in-room] frequency response." Factor in room gain and a "flat-measuring" ported sub may well have too much output down low, which tends to sound slow and/or boomy. But room gain is insufficient to offset the rolloff of a sealed sub below its resonant frequency, so a sealed box sub usually needs EQ.
In my opinion the correct target curve for subwoofer design would take into account anticipated room gain, and based on my modelling that's easier to achieve with a ported box. Matt's description of the ported sub in his room (low tuned, undersized for the woofer) sounds like it MIGHT be designed like this, but I can't tell from afar without knowing a lot of specifics.
If you do multisubs and run into the issue of too much very low bass, because the subs are located within a relatively small fraction of a wavelength if one another and are therefore approximately in-phase, one solution is to simply reverse the polarity of one of the subs. If necessary, pull the driver and switch the wires.
Hi, Gene, I improved sound of my PSB 6i subwoofer a lot simply by putting a marble plate (15x17 inch) on top of the subwoofer. It improved the boominess a lot. My sub was tested by Sound&Vision to be a good sub to begin with. The improvement cab easily heard. I have no way to measure it. If you see this message, please try it and measure it in terms of FR and distortion. Thanks,
What was the conclusion? I don't have 1,5 hour right now.
Too bad for you
hahah,
It depends
There is no conclusion. There ya go.
Don't eat soy and chemicals. watch the video and see what I mean.
Any advantage to stacking subs other than increase in headroom? Rel is a big advocate of that.
What about feeling the base, I enjoy that more then hearing it, what’s better on that point?
This is my thought on the matter. Ported vs. non-ported used to matter more than it does today. The issue with ported is that people say it will ring because it doesn't have the spring force of the compressed air behind the speaker cone. This used to matter, but with modern hi power servo class D amps the speaker has a lot of power to control the motion of the speaker, and you get the improved low end response - lower freq available for those few instances where it is part of the music. I vote for ported with the high power class D amps. I personally have the SB 13 Ultra (no longer being made), and it is great. I have one of the 3 ports plugged and it is tuned to, I think, 16 Hz.
I think you mean the PB 13.
@@Beos_Valrah You are correct.
Nothing about QTC or bass reflex alignments and how they compare? I think this is probably the most important aspect on subwoofers. But I will say you have covered this in some of your articles although it would of been nice to hear it covered in this vid.
I've noticed fiberglass fill fibers building up on some of my speaker's grills in front of the ports. Could be a health concern, I usually use tape to remove the fibers from the grill fabric, noticed it on several different speaker models. Also of concern especially with vintage speakers from the 1980's ish is that the particle board can use adhesives that off-gass formaldehyde, even decades later. I wouldn't trust every manufacturer around the world to be sourcing their modern MDF to be free of formaldehyde either, even if the design calls for a higher grade, you never know what corners the outsourced manufacturer will cut. It's not uncommon for a high end paint or glue to be sold off by the manufacturer, and then substituted by a cheaper one bought locally. We saw that in the lead paint scandal a few years ago. Sealing a sub would keep allot of potential contaminants in the box, and the outer surfaces layered in veneer. Maybe formaldehyde levels should be a measured, reviewed spec? I also hear beryllium is pretty nasty stuff to work with too. Is there a regulatory agency that keeps up with potential exposure to consumers? I wouldn't worry too much about the drivers coming to pieces, but dust from the facility may be of concern.
wtf , ok,, smartest comment on here, for real.. thanks
i think most acoustic treatment type products inside speakers is that white synthetic wool type stuff. but wow interesting you found fiberglass on the grills. what speakers / era we talking about though w those?
I have a few questions about powered subwoofers. However, many people rarely reply to questions so I'll wait to see If you guys interact with your followers
Thank you all for nerding out on this subject. I think that all bass playback - is the toughest part of playback of music.
Another aspect with subwoofers - is how low the main speakers are going to play. If the sub only needs to cover the bottom octave (20-40Hz) than it can be designed to do that; without having to cover what is needed to blend with a smaller main speaker. Which brings up another issue - for a music system, at least - is the phase blending of a subwoofer(s) with the main speakers; based on the different distances from the speaker to the listener.
The moving mass of a woofer driver has a lot to do with the transient response - and with the settling time.
Drums have a lot of low bass. A 5 or 6 (or 7) string electric bass guitar hit about 31Hz on the open bottom string. A 4 string bass hit ~41Hz on the open bottom string.
Not a great idea to limit subs to only 40Hz. Ideally you want multi-sub strategically located around the room to tame modal behavior for the entire bandwidth of non-directional bass (80Hz and lower).
@@Audioholics I am suggesting that a sub could be optimized to play the bottom octave, and to be rolled off above that so that it can have less compromise in its coverage. But some small main speakers really need the sub to play to 150Hz of even 200Hz, so that type of sub would have to make different choices in design.
I recently did a song comparison with deep bass.
Setup 1) JL Audio 10W6v3 in JL's ported high output box w/ JLA 500/1 regulated amplifier
VS
Setup 2) JL Audio flagship 10W7AE in JL's sealed box w/ JLA HD750/1.
I love them both! The ported sub sounds so good and gets nice and deep BUT the sealed sub in my SUV has a TWK88 DSP where I turn down the 50hz, and boost the 35hz with PEQ.
This approach flattened the response much deeper that no PEQ on that sealed sub and guess what!?
It gets deeper than the ported, but at the expense of all the power of the amp (750W) throwing the high excursion 10W7 super hard at the low end, and it sounds so freaking good!
That in my option is by far the better option, if you have the money for high excursion and tons of power. Just look at JL's home theater subs. They're sealed with tons of power and DSP to flatten the response.
What would you pick for a sealed sub that is better than the rythmik f18? I am leaning towards that as my top end for size and cost
I know i'm probably late to the party but just saw this. The Rhythmic F18's are fantastic. You can read my user review here if interested.... tomsmultiinterest.com/av-equipment-reviews-2#011607d5-050f-4852-bafb-ac628805104d or here ... www.avnirvana.com/threads/holy-subwoofers-batman-a-end-user-review-of-the-rythmik-f18-18-sealed-box-subwoofer.3873/
There is another option - *mass loaded transmission line*; which has a lot of advantages over both sealed and ported designs, I think. RSL Speedwoofer is essentially a TL subwoofer.
47:37 "people don't want to admit this but, most music doesn't have any content below 70Hz"
You lost all credibility with that dumb statement. The resonant frequency of a 22" kick drum is 60Hz. Why do you think a Neve console sets it's bottom EQ point at 63Hz and it's lowest turn over point at 31.5Hz!
He said MOST, and specified artificial music. These ported fanboys, lemme tell ya.
@@lgmediapcsalon9440 So most music doesn't include bass & drums?
@@keithmoriyama5421 You think sealed subs can't play bass notes and kickdrums?
@@lgmediapcsalon9440 Of course they do-- I own two of them. WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL COMMENT?????
@@keithmoriyama5421 It's simple; Matt is right. MOST music doesn't go that low, outside of rendered instruments (electro, rap, etc) and as you've mentioned: kickdrums, bass guitars, organs, etc. Of those instruments, only a minority of notes go below 70hz. Now, compare that number with all other possible instruments including of course all their respective ranges. See how puny 70hz or less is in real content? Does that answer your question?
Which video has the info about what hardware to buy for subwoofer isolation?
What I find really interesting, is that harmonics ride frequencies lower than them. Meaning inaudible (sub-sonic) frequencies could give a harmonic volume boost to higher audible sounds, which may be one of those hidden perceptions of preference people are always talking about. Kind of an interesting thing to think about in relation to phase coherence through the crossover network and then the sub integration. Would we want to optimize for these harmonics, or reduce them? Is the optimal position for our sub going to cause destructive interference harmonically, by being in the wrong place at the wrong time?
SwirlingDragonMist if our body can have a “memory” that conflicts with our conscious mind, then the feeling perceived by the body during listening would have some input compared to what the ears can detect. In my truck Rockford put vibration things on the seats. Even though I know they’re there, I almost forget about it and it just feels like good bass. So I think these things combined provide plenty of reason to take the inaudible fq into account.
@@cardiobroker Very interesting! I believe much of our fascination with musical beats is from hearing our mother's heartbeat while we are in the womb. Particularly correlating elevated heart rates and oxytocin from when our mom was... excited.
Excellent discussion.
Hmmm... so if I added (2) svs sb1000 with my (2) svs pb1000 I could possibly have the best of both worlds? Do people do that; mix ported & sealed?
Wait, you show the sealed has having a lower response then the ported. I thought it was suppose to be the opposite? The sealed is the green line right.
At very low frequencies sealed does have more extension in most cases.
Wait, 40:40 so my aluminum radiator on my plate amp acts as a passive porthole, structurally? That makes zero sense to me! How can a finned aluminum block act as a porthole
EDIT: dispelled my confusion. A speaker driver referred to as a passive radiator is certainly something I found odd and did not anticipate, haha. On what basis is it called a radiator? What does it radiate? Sound pressure, or vibration? Those don't sound as qualities that would be radiated.
Which type will produce more tactile response?
I enjoyed the part about passive radiator subs. My Boston Acoustics VPS-210 just kicked the bucket after 11 years and I was bummed! The VPS-210 had a passive radiator and it did vibrate all over the damn place. But I would have to say it sounded amazing for music and got decently low for a 10”. I loved that sub, but I am excited to hear the SB-2000 pro I just ordered. I don’t have a ton of experience with subs, so I am anxious to compare them.
So how was the SB2 pro?
@@demonreturns4336 I love it. It’s better for movies, but not as musical as the VPS-210.
@@michaelwright9101 oh wow very interesting
Thanks for the feedback 🙏
So, to keep things simple with EQ, I should just go with sealed so that it is more easily intergrated with my home theater set up?
Hey guys thanks for the info. Question for you all. I'm using sealed subs now (SVS SB12-NSD), but my full range speakers (Pioneer Elites by Andrew Jones) have ports in the back. Should I plug those ports on the mains and surrounds so the entire 7.3.4 system is comprised of sealed speakers? The AVR crossover is set to 100hz now.
Can you do a talk an the brands that do the dual Push Pull drivers (dual opposed drivers?) such as M&K MX-350THX, Perlisten D212, Rythmik G25hp. What other brands? Im not talking Iso-baric design.
Great educational talk. I have heard both and if setup properly sound fantastic.
Just now watched, and no mention of subs that use passive radiators, and no mention of open baffle subwoofers they both have significant benefits worth addressing, I'm currently working on two subwoofer builds each with a 15in Dayton passive radiator an two 15in DVC subwoofers each one total size is a foot deep by 19.3in wide by 49in high so a bit tall and wide but very shallow, the benefit of radiator in custom built is sometimes a flexible foot print for the size and whight of the box... Gene I'd like to see you do an indepth review and discussion on the pros and cons of subs for ported vs sealed vs radiator vs open baffle both manufactured and diy custom built
They did mention Passive radiators and how the passives need to have double the cone area of the powered driver.
I think it all depends on the listener’s preference. It is almost the listeners feelings about the sound. I like sealed but have had ported sun, both sound good. After many tears of a ported sub to a sealed sub. There seems to be a difference but I cannot define it.
Why all the dislike for "Port Of Subs??? Their sandwiches are so much better than the subs made by"Subway" And they actually offer a reuben sandwich on their menu. So lets hear it for "Port Of Subs" You guys need to expand your horizons when it comes to lunch fare, You haven't even mentioned Quiznos!! LOL!!@ LMFAO I'm just fooling around Gene! Actually this is a very interesting conversation with a lot of good points made.
I have 3060s q acoustics sub. What's the upgrade then ? Pb 2000 Pro or sb 2000 in room 4x4meters. I'm listening to music playing games and watching movies.
Speaking on the small size sealed sub. I have the sunfire xteq 8 sub and its made not to roam the room while active and it dont.
sb-1000 24hz-260hz sealed
pb-1000 18hz-270hz ported
sealed- fast clean clear responsive bass... 👍👍 music and gaming small-medium room
ported- deep dominating scary ground shaking bass... "in a good way" movies and gaming medium-large room
my choice- BOTH!
ported up front (in a corner maybe) on a foam pad blasting air at you giving you depth, and a sense of real presence and feeling!
sealed closest to main listening position on 4 inches of gel under each footing giving you fast clean balanced well timed connective sense to all your surround and height channels!
thoughts-
I have a high end $1000 700watt sub (ported) that I don't use... the only thing id want to hear it do is a car explosion in a movie it can shake my house down, it has NO musicality
I have a 12 inch $250 200watt Cerwin Vega (ported) one of favorite subs ever, use it every day, music is SO sweet with it, paired with focals
In my experience music sounds better with subs that are between 8 and 12 inches with wattage power between 50 to 300 watts (unless your in a large concrete walled basement theater)
nice way to go is set your ported frnt to an 80hz max to focus on the low end and set your sealed center room sub too max hz it wont create as much room boominess up on gel in the middle of room in my experience, which might seem counter intuitive...
Final thought- subs basically turn your room into a speaker especially with ported. even more so than speakers your room's walls dictate the sound you receive. the "right" sub for you might be tricky to pin down, however with a sealed sub up in the air a bit on some gel you can negate a lot of your room's sound so, I think SEALED is the safest choice to blindly spring for, just make sure you get the right power output for your room size! If your on a budget and want biggest "boom" for your buck to watch movies, spring for PORTED...
I like the idea of the sub isolators video!
What about sealed subwoofer with passive radiator, instructions uncleared, sold my house and bought the biggest subwoofer I could find and now I sleep inside it :)
You say Yamaha YPAO 'sucks' but you do admit that it calibrates the delay better than you could possibly hope to do by ear. So still use it, right?
We set the receiver auto-calibration May do a better job. YPAO is particularly bad with EQ and has also gotten the time delay wrong. I’m a big hater on YPAO. I keep trying to give it the benefit of the doubt with each new iteration and walk away seriously unimpressed.
So should you use it? If you have no other measurement capability, yes. If you have any other measurement capability, then no I wouldn’t use it per say. What I would do is use it for initial setup. Then go in and turn the eq portion off but leave the delays in tact. Measure with REW or a similar measurement software. Then look at the group delay or wavelet plots to assess how accurate the time alignment between subwoofer and mains are? If it doesn’t match, you adjust accordingly in the setup. I do this by adding distance to the subwoofer or, if not possible, adding distance to the mains. It has the same effect in the end.
THOSE M.I.C.S, THAT CALIBRATE OUR 4K RECEIVERS ARE ONE AMAZING PEICE OFF KIT THEY EVEN SET THE DB ON THE SUBBS AND CENTRE SPEAKER.
David Morgan yes that is what autosetup does. It’s very convenient. Sadly we have heard that most people don’t use this feature.
Great video, it is very germane to me. My winter project is to build a subwooofer enclosure. My first question is: If you put several ports, like 3, can the ports be turned to different frequencies to extend the response of the subwoofer over a greater range of frequencies?
I am not using a plate amplifier because I have 2 old receivers on hand which I am not using. Will a receiver drive a passive subwoofer from one of its main outputs directly, or do I need to use Low Pass filter? The receivers have low voltage subwoofer inputs.
Steve Bonin in practice it won’t work that way. The ports basically act as one but by changing the length slightly you get a slightly different and unpredictable set of resonances. Think of the port as a high Q peaking filter. Then imagine mixing three together. Now imagine the net response is the frequency of each is slightly different. This is what happens. Some people use it as a means to widen the Q of the port tuning, but it’s not a common practice and for a reason. The final result can be a sub with much higher group delay, unpredictable performance, and no meaningful improvement in room performance.
You can use passive radiators, change weights to change tuning
@@PoesAcoustics Thanks Matt, I figured it was something like that...akin to putting resistors in parallel in an electrical circuirt
Steve Bonin yeah that is a way of thinking about it. Though in parallel is probably a better analogy. When you put three ports into an enclosure of a fixed length and diameter, and it’s the same for all of them, they work together the same as a port of that depth but with an area equal to the total area is all the ports together. It’s like making the port diameter larger, and if you don’t lengthen the port, the tuning frequencies dramatically increases.
When you put three ports in a box and you vary their length you see that same basic behavior, but you also see some perturbation of the frequency from the contribution of each port. It’s sort of like lowering the Q, but the actual response of the ports looks more like a Trimodal response with three distinct peaks.
I have no idea what would happen if you built a sub with three ports and they were dramatically different sizes. I’m sure it can be modeled in PSpice.
Now if what you want is to take advantage of these resonant devices to extend the bandwidth and output of a system with excursion control over a wider range, take a look at the ABC box. It’s a form of 8th order bass reflex box with two distinct tuning frequencies and this excursion nulls. Of course, no free lunch, it’s group delay is much higher than normal and there is a null in the response.
FSXgta⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻ he had something else in mind. He wanted three tunings at the same time. But that is a nice thing about PR’s in DIY subs. You can change the tuning at will. See what sounds best to you in your room.
I just wanted to ask though can’t we plug the ports for a ported sub so it sounds like a sealed subwoofer. So I could buy a pb-3000, with the port plugs, and so when I want to listen to music, I could seal the sub, so I could get to at least close to what the sealed version would give me, while it is not possible to add ports to a sealed sub woofer.
I wish you guys would have mentioned the Sonos Sub. I live in a condo now days and I have a sonos system but no sub. The lady who lives below me is 87. Im pretty sure her hearing is going and I'm about to buy a sub. Is the sonos sub good or bad cuz I went to Best Buy and they didn't have it hooked up.
(My last subs were a ported 12" alpine and a sealed 13.5" JL W7)
Of course the Sonos Sub is not good. www.avsforum.com/threads/sonos-sub-what-are-the-real-specs.2090930/ "The Sonos sub uses 2 6'' woofers in a ported push pull configuration enclosure. Based on the enclosure and the size of the port, I'd say the tuning is around 45Hz with a -3dB of 40Hz. Sonos uses some good amount of bass EQ boost on their speakers to extend bass response, and most likely they applied some bass boost based on what I heard. I'd guess it is a 3-6dB boost at around 50Hz to make it sound powerful since boosting below the tuning frequency is pretty much useless."
I use a Sonos sub in my living room to supplement the ceiling speakers for casual distributed audio. It’s fine for that. I’d never put it in my home theater. I have Hsu for that.
I've never used a sealed sub but I recently built an auxiliary sub to go with my BIC pl200 sub for my home theater because I had a spare 100w plate amp. So I grabbed a cheap Cerwin Vega XED 10 an stuck it in a .88 cf box, it tossed a nice little bump to other side of the room, anywho I plopped it in my minivan to compare to my Polk db12 on a 200+w amp, it was eye opening. The sealed had nice tight sound but not much boom and it lapped up every watt in my amp and wanted more and my ported 12 bumps with the same wattage. I'll say for efficiency to best results per watt ported hands down...for music with moderate but clean smooth sound sealed hands down. Now the sound of big wattage to big multiple woofers? Never experienced that I'd assume as much low bass as you would ever need...
Making a cabinet right now with a couple ported holes and then I'm going to get some foam and make it sealed pending out if I'm watching movies or I'm just listening to typical 80s rock music
Passive Bass radiators? best sample of results is the Harman Onyx studio series.
Passive radiator does the same as a port, but it's more expensive than a tube. It has no unwanted "blow" noises typical with small diameter ports. Kef 104 aB is classic hifi speaker example with a passive element.
have you done the isolator video?
I've built a ~400 lb steel subwoofer enclosure, top-firing, and used bicycle seat springs to isolate it from the hardwood floor (2.75" thick floor including subfloor). I'm not sure if I completely wasted my time...
I have a 8 year old klipsch 110 SW is it ported or sealed?
This was a very good discussion. I learned that James has an unsteady voice wise in the beginnings but once he got started, he got locked in and I quite enjoyed him presenting his reasoning why ported where better than sealed subwoofers. He brought the fact that sealed also distort in their smaller locked volume. No thanks, I don't want a wall full of sealed subs. I will take a large well made sub.
Get a potted sub. You can always put a plug into the port whenever you need a tighter articulated sound
that plug changes way more than desired because the whole calculation of cabinet / chassis no longer is true
Great discussion basically more sub the better but i am in Australia and we get ripped off so i can only afford one sub for now my room 7 meters long and 5 meters wide and i cant choose between the svs 2000pro ported or the rel 1205 thoughts and help ?
I havent watched the whole thing yet, and I have still a pretty rudimentary understanding of sealed vs ported, but I always understood sealed has more accurate bass (didn't realize about the low end advantage), while ported required a lot less effort to create loud bass but the accuracy and/or subtle bass are not as good. Im guessing that this might apply more to the lower end and basic consumer stuff more? Like, I have heard sealed will only have beefy bass if the enclosure is larger *or* the drive is a lot more powerful/harder to drive. This probably doesn't affect high end market as much, as Im guessing sealed speakers and subs are expected to have more powerful drivers in there?
While a moderate consumer speaker with a adequate woofer that isn't too hard to drive, in a modest size/volume enclosure probably won't sound as beefy, but should sound pretty "fine" and accurate?
And a cheap ported sub (be it in some cheap PC speaker set or cheap soundbar) might sound loud but runs the risk of running more boomy and less refined?
My limited experience with Hifi speakers only consists of sealed and passive radiators, while I have mostly only heard cheaper or more affordable speakers or subs with ports, so that could also probably distort my understanding.
I don't believe you have heard a high quality well designed and built ported hi fi system and what it can sound like. If you live In or around south Florida I invite you to my house to hear my klipsch setup so you hear it. What people say is not true that it's not musical and all that. Not every ported system goes boom boom boom and that's it. You wont believe how just two 6.5" woofers and two titanium horns can sound and no exposed wires or sound source. They are magically playing out of thin air on the dresser. You will be dancing more than the speakers for sure. It's clear and loud and you hear every detail with all types of bass tones.
I prefer ported as you can tune them more into your system, I find sealed have to be turned up to get the depth of bass this can be a problem at night time
Put a 12 dB / octave filter at 40 Hz in a high end SVS ported sub and compare it to it's sealed brother.
For all the hate of ported, I'd love to see how many people can tell them apart in a double blind.
Gud point made by Kames abt passive radiator being inefficient as they keep moving on ground. We got 2 subs in the family,Elac3010 n 3030. The 3010 is such tiny sub that the passive rad moves so much that the just keeps rattling and moves frm its place.No such issue with the bigger 3030 12 inch sub as the enclosure is much bigger and heavier. Lesson learnt that i wd never buy a sealed sub with passive radiator esp when its a smaller enclosure. The solution i found is that i turned the sub 90degs so that the passive rad faces to the side instead of downward.now the sub doesnt move as the air frm passive rad doesn't have any resistance. I wrote to Andrew jones on the same,but didnt get any answers.
What about open baffle subs, e.g., GR-research ones.
The lowest note on a 5- and 6-string bass is 31Hz. The lowest note on a 4-string bass is 42Hz. Bass drums are typically tuned to around 50Hz. So there should be plenty of important information in the 40-50Hz range, but not as much as in the >70Hz range of course.
Simple answer. Same size sealed will sound better and go deeper then ported boxes cause sealed subwoofer is typically lower than the driver's VAS so if i make a ported box with the same size, i will get boomy bass around the 60-80hz. If i have a sealed sub and a ported one that is tuned deeper, my ported will be 6 db ish louder then the sealed one at the tuning point and the sealed will catch up at around 1/2 octave of the tuning. (Depends on the box). Lets day i have a sealed sub and a ported sub (ported tuned to 20hz). The ported will be louder at 17-25 ish (maybe wider, depends) but the sealed will roughly catch up at around 14hz ish (dk the exact number)
No box is better. It all depends on space. If u want smaller box and you want deep, go sealed. If you have space and loudness, go ported. If i had the budget, i would go for multiple sealed subs since if i couple them, they have less group delay and really just is a faster sub all around. Sorry for my english btw
I’d like to hear more of your thoughts about servo subs.
Servo is the way you go, end of story. Once you go servo, you'll never go back. Very accurate, clean, and tight. The best affordable brand is Rythmic. I have the f18 and it's amazing.
I propose a cage match for host microphone & room acoustics.
James was quite rude at many points here. Whereas Matthew let James make every point of his completely before countering, James interrupted Matt before he could finish any of his points. I would not tolerate that behavior in Matt's shoes. Good on him for being so patient
Calm down…. They are cool with each other
You sound like someone that cries over small meaningless things in life
@@demonreturns4336 In fact, your reply has made me cry 😢
I know they're cool with each other. I wouldn't be surprised if they are friends. I just meant to convey that there is an "etiquette" of sorts to debating, and it's sort of hard to articulate a point when your interlocutor won't even let you finish it. Even if they're cool, which I'm sure they are, I call it rude. Sue me.
Can you bench the SB 4000 sub on your website? I think its output is way the same as the JL E112.
Great conversation. But I must comment that on on 40:30 Gene has the Popeye look. Lol
Look at Ascendo Immersive Audio they have Infrasonic subwoofers 24" , 32" and 50" they are all Sealed the 50" can do 140dB max . The 24" and 32" have world Record 9cm linear excursion.
They are to be considered to be the best subwoofers at the moment. They also have 6 kilowatt amplification inside.
Best regards
Hermann
Hermann Maischatz so all you just said is for the normal consumer totally irrelevant
@@MichelLinschoten what I meant is that those subwoofers go much deeper than the ported subwoofers and give better control you can easily fit a 24"Infrasonic subwoofer into a 6x6m room to add to your normal subwoofers.
What about a small home studio? Sealed or ported?
I was able to get two SVS PB-2000s in the family room because they look like furniture pieces. We jokingly call them the "trash cans".
Bought 2 SVS SB-4000 subs. The pair gives huge amounts of output down to my ability to hear and shakes the floor with the frequencies that I cannot. Tested them musically with Primus “Sailing the Sea of Cheese” Blu-ray/cd. Les Claypool the master of bass for the win.
Yeah . Just got a svs sb 4000. Thing is nice . Hits low and smooth. I love it. Some day I may get a second one. But just the single is great too.
Sealed all the way.
Easily. Definitely less efficient but sealed sounds way better
Sealed sub designs are not after SPL; they're after tight, clean, controlled bass that sounds like the instrument that made it as opposed to just sounding like non-descript low frequencies. That's sort of OK for movies, but not at all OK for pipe organ or plucked strings. Sealed subs sound tighter and more musical across the board, plus they are more controlled and less apt to piss off the neighbors in an HT system. My music systems, which occasionally double as HT systems, use sealed SVS subs. I don't watch movies at the ear-killing SPLs that ported subs seem designed to produce, and neither should anyone else. Every terrible-sounding sub I've ever heard was a ported design played loudly to demonstrate "how much bass" it could make.
Correct
There's a delay in the sound output of the port because of the length of it. The longer the longer the delay. That also contributes to the less accurate sound.
Love the videos Gene! I have heard you say that you apply HPF's to your sealed subs to match the roll off of your ported subs. I understand that this is to keep them relatively phase aligned so they don't cancel each other. I don't know enough about EQ, but could an all pass filter on the sealed subs work in your situation? The idea being to get the phase shift you need to keep them aligned to your ported subs but without sacrificing their low end
Yes absolutely but most products don't have that feature. In all honesty, the best policy is to use the same bass alignment for ALL subs to avoid this even being an issue. Good point.
It really applies to room and placement.
How about Isobaric Loading of "twin bass" drivers ? Plus, Does that arrangement (Isobaric) work well in a Ported Design (to include a 'Transmission Line')verses a Sealed Box ?
Yes it does, the benefit is alot of output from smaller box, but imo it's better to give each subwoofer it's own box and run duals. This way you smooth out the frequency response in a room
I would intend to run Dual Woofer Enclosures , regardless.@@FSXgta
@@RoaroftheTiger if I was building this, I would do dual opposed sealed or ported/Tline to cancel out cabinet vibration. Isobaric is good if you have limited space though, but a little more tricky to build