A good subwoofer is a good subwoofer. Wish people understood that. I cringe on so many forums or Facebook groups I visit where these myths are blindly repeated and spewed with regularity.
Female multi sub owner here, I recently switched out my ported subs for sealed and must say it is the best decision I have made for my system. I am enjoying my system much more than before. I don't believe either ported or sealed is better than the other. However, I do believe my room is better suited for sealed subwoofers.
Same here. I've tried every sub I've owned ported and sealed - sealed sounded much better with music in every case. Maybe they were all badly designed, I don't know but they were Infinity, Formula F-12, a cheap Denon HTIB sub, and mtx thunder 7000 series...my room (office) is small, and could be due to cabin gain...
There is one "advantage" to sealed subs...due to the closed box, the driver will stop very quickly, because the air inside the box resists being compressed. A ported sub can also stop moving quickly, but it requires strong magnets and a good design. Maybe that plays a role as well...
Well designed ported subs are good, well designed sealed subs are great. The only reason to get a ported sub over sealed is for more output. If you have the cash just get more sealed.
I love my sealed 18" Rhymik F18. I went with sealed because the ported model is ridiculously massive, and my room is medium-sized. 18" gives me all the extension I need and then some.
Sealed subs have less extension, which thus means less room mode interaction, so less problematic. Deeper bass also exists for longer, and so sealed subs with less bass are viewed as “tighter” as they have less audible decay.
Yes, I do agree. I used to have a pair of SVS PB2000, and adjusted using minidsp, but some how I still feel the bass is slow not tight. Then I replaced is with a pair or JL E112, and I feel the bass is tighter. For Gene, if may suggest, try to do a topic about subwoofer should be decouple or couple? As many of us still confuse which one is better. Thanks.
Unless it's a high end ported sub, I just call it what it really is. Fake bass. I can totally tell when someone has a pos ported sub lol But SVS and a few others do get it right however.
Yes it true sealed subs do roll off sooner but a sealed sub with enough power will extended deeper in the frequency range than say a ported sub at 19hz. Look at graphs sealed will have more output say around 10hz vs a ported 19hz in the proper alignment. Ported is more efficient
@@E_iN_G7 It will need to be an expensive sealed sub for the output at 10Hz to be meaningful. Also, once you go past like 15Hz you risk damaging your sub, Rythmik has a bass limiter switch that they recommend for movies with deep bass (they specifically mention the opening scene of Edge of Tomorrow).
I understand and coincide with audio enthusiasts who want accurate bass for music. Hence choosing subs that they feel sounds the most realistic. However with Home theater, a good quality sealed or ported subwoofer that digs down to at least 20Hz before it starts to roll off will reproduce car crashes, explosions, gun fire and foot stomps just fine and very satisfying. In real life? A car crash or explosion, thunder, or a big rig truck driving by for example doesn't come through a subwoofer. The sound and subsonic frequencies are all filtered by the objects near by. Meaning, if you're lucky to survive an explosion at 15-20 feet away, the ultrasonic frequencies will be all over the place. Peaks, dips and out of phase. Bouncing off of buildings and objects before it gets to you. So in other words, think about the reality of what you are really trying to reproduce. If you can make your room shake from 80hz to 20hz in phase without huge peaks and dips? You're doing good. Because in real life? There's no such thing as a flat frequency response with bass. You could witness an explosion 200-500 feet away and get a 40-50hz peak with a suck out at 30hz. Or 15hz. So relax, live a little and just try to get the best bass possible without sweating it. Shake the room. It's fun! If you're getting too much at 50hz and it's drowning out lower frequencies, just eq it down. No biggie...sealed or ported.
What? It's not about real life reproduction of un-edited footage. In most cases you try to recreate what has the creator done, which has definitely some standards = no unintentional dips or peaks. And the same goes for picture quality.
As a black metal guy I've never heard a 4th order sealed box that I've been happy with. Bot thats often sealed boxes with big boxes and large ports. A low FS element in a small sealed box that gives a lot of suspension and lots and lots of power is just beutiful for metal in my ears. But my beast of a sub in my car is ported, because its so much when your hair leaves your head. As long as you have the power and the cone area/Xmax and/or tuning that suites your room and the size of your bass head, both types has it merits.
For ME, I love the way a properly aligned sealed subwoofer sounds..for music. With movies I prefer a nice vented setup. Now what I'm trying to really get into is a good push push sub setup or a passive radiator setup.
Nice talk Gene! I am concerned about $, size, service, set up and of course listening. I took advantage of the 30 or 60 day return policies and actually ended up with an RSL 12 in Speedwoofer. I tried both SVS 16 Ultras, Rel T9x, and Kef. For my room the RSL sounded great and the price was right. I did have to pay partial return shipping on 2 of the subs, but I'm happy for now.
Both. You gotta get both. Ported down to 15hz, sealed between 40hz-85hz, SPL matched at the listening position. Placement, Room & listening position together make such a big difference, any one type of sub driven too hard will almost always set off room modes (boomy). Different subs to cover a range of frequencies works best for home use (that includes music too, not just HT).
Mixing different subwoofers ported & sealed will give a non coherent mismatched sound. In bass for both music and movies. Unless you have the knowledge and skills to correctly apply external dsp to tune get them in sync. The average consumer ie 99% of people wouldn't be able to mix ported & sealed successfully. All the reputable sub manufacturers SVS, JTR, etc recommend using the same identical subwoofers in the room. And if you can't then they recommend using a sub that is very close to the spec performance of your current sub.
As a car audio enthusiast, I've learned quite a bit from this channel. That said, I have many different sub stages, both ported variety, and sealed. I honestly couldn't say if one was more musical than the other. Depends on what I'm listening to, in my opinion, and the volume in which that variety is played. Some bass heavy stuff sounds better sealed, and some music where bass information is low, sounds better ported, due to the gain. I don't really know much about sq, but I'm learning and channels like this are priceless when trying to figure out what I want. I have 16 6.5" midbass drivers, and 10 - 1" tweets on the way, 8 woofers and 5 tweeters per door. Looking for loud and decent SQ, I feel it should keep up with the sub stage... Lol! Thanks for posting, these videos are great. Awesome content, to get the mind thinking and learning.
Would not claim that sealed is more musical, but that ported is just not always necessary, relative to the space they usually need. I lived with ported subs for two years in a music only system. They measured flat to right at around 20hz. Still, they rarely reached below 30+ with the music I listen to, which covers 5 genres. I was housing 10hz of range I rarely used. I only tried sealed when I started building my own. My music still sounded awesome. The sealed versions, seemed to have about the same roll off as the actual music instrument speakers had, in all but extreme cases, that revolved around music equipment set up to produce extremely low sub bass. Not only that, the sealed managed to report sub frequencies down to 20hz, in an audibly pleasing way. Not only that, now I have room for 4 subs, instead of 2. Finally, I had also come to notice that many who had large ported subs, tended to play them at least 3db hot, emphasizing bass that was simply not meant to be so forward, and almost to the point of being somewhat obnoxious with it. And also revealing some not-so-favorable artifacts in the recordings that were undetectable otherwise, especially with classic rock. I had seen many of these bands live, and the bass was always pretty much level matched, with the mid range being more power oriented and forward. I use subs to get the bass out of the mid range's cabinet, and to offer optional placement possibilities. I never suffered insufficient bass frequency range with music. To the contrary, with the rather large displacement speakers I tend to employ, I was instead trying to have enough, without rattling the neighbors windows. Sealed, with an F3 in the mid to lower 30hz range, is more potent than most people realize.
I split the difference and decided to get a sealed sub with a Passive Radiator. Enter the rel Ti series. I have dual Rel t9is in a 17wide by 25long room and it’s pure magic. Focus on quality over quality when it comes to Bass
That's interesting since passive radiators tend to have higher (hence worse) group delay when compared to equally designed ported subs. I guess the trick is that passive radiators allow for a deeper tuning in a smaller box which compensates for the otherwise higher group delay. Thus, you get a relatively smaller box with low tuning and no port noise. If one is not restricted in cabinet size, however, there is really no benefit of a PR over a ported design.
What you are saying is absolutely correct. If sealed subs were more musical, then hi - fi speakers schould mostly be sealed designs, which they are abviously not. In rooms, the room gain can be so extreme that even a very nicely designed sub will sound like a one note boom box, as soon as it hits lower frequencies with authority. I think that sealed subs are easier to work with if one does not use equalizers.
I prefer sealed because in my room which is a rectangle, I get to put them at all 4 corners PLUS a pair of crowson actuators under my seats. The sealed subs at the corner gets quite a bit of boundary gain which helps everything under 30hz and then I slope them off at 16hz where the crowson actuators then take over to go down to 5hz. It's the best of both worlds setting for me because everything below 16hz won't wake the entire neighborhood and there's more than enough output above that with 4 sealed subs. I didn't choose ported because they took just a bit too much space for my little 1400cu ft room.
I've always used sealed for the fact, I prefer smaller enclosures. I used to think sealed for jazz and ported for bass heavy rap music. My next home subs will be rhythmik, I believe servo is the way to go,but I am uneducated. I Like the idea on how the cone can be controlled
Bigleftyinaz: Only by my own experience. I went from a sealed 18" sub that has nice room gain, but is a little bloated ( One note wonder ), but at the same time articulate for music, to 2 ported subs in the same positions. The new subs are much tighter and articulate, and certainly play more then one note in room. Preference is key on what anyone wants, but I have no reason to go back to sealed for "tighter" bass.. I also think that having ports gives you more flexibility with positioning, since you don't have to worry as much about room gain, since ported has more gain by nature, in the lower registers. For comparison, I did go from a Bag End 18" sealed 350 watts? to 2 Rhythmik FV-18 ported 900 watts. The new ones are certainly larger, ( think mini frig), but also quite dynamic and "tight".. Current room is 17'x25'x8' closed, with doors. I have system at the front of the 25' part of room. Maybe this will help you with your decision. G
I have a 10 inch sealed sub and it gows so low and dynamic for movies! I have a 4 inch ported Dayton audio sub 2.1 system and it sounds great for music at medium levels.
Great video, never understood why some self declared audiophiles reject ported subs outright (and some even reject sealed subs too) yet the vast majority of tower and bookshelf speakers are ported especially if they are full range. What's the difference?!
that is my thoughts about the subject look at all the expensive speakers Focal , B&W , Wilson they all have ports, my current speakers Tekton Double Impacts have 2 10" woofers with two large ports on each speaker.
The model that best describes the mechanical behavior of woofer/enclosure performance is Newton's second law of motion applied to forced oscillation. Not all sealed subs are acoustic suspension designs. That design is the best one because you can control F3 and Q to be whatever you want it to be. The penalty is efficiency. The parameters are moving mass, damping, and spring constant. Generally for acoustic suspension speakers mass is high, compliance of the suspension is very high. The spring constant is controlled by the amount of air trapped inside the enclosure. Damping is controlled by the viscosity of air being pushed and pulled between the fibers and is proportional to velocity. The restoring force is due mostly to the difference in air pressure between the inside and outside. It is applied uniformly over the surface of the cone reducing radial and circumferential differences in force which tend to twist and shear the cone resulting in breakup into harmonic modes mechanical suspensions can produce. Ported designs work like the pipe in a pipe organ allowing air to pass through easily at some frequencies, not so easily at others. Air turbulence at the ends of the port causes viscosity to change with amplitude and frequency resulting in chuffing. Typically ported designs have a high Q and fall off at 24 db per octave below system resonance. Critical damping is 0.707. This is the highest Q without a peak. Falloff below system resonance is 12 db per octave and is equalizable. BTW this ordinary second order differential equation is used in many applications such as designing the suspension of a car.
I like sealed subs better for what i want, they integrate easier with speaker and room and you can have multiple without taking over your space. Just keep in mind, im mostly music listener, so I dont need 20-30 hertz anyway.
Gene, you will appreciate this. I have the Martin Logan Classic 9's from the Masterpiece series. I just added the Dynamo 1600X in downward firing config strictly for 2.1 music - NO theater use. My room is 23x18' and I had a HUGE bump at 25Hz. at my listening position 20' from the speakers. I ordered the 'Perfect Bass Kit' and ran the Anthem Room Correction using my laptop. I selected 5 sampling positions. WOW, the 25Hz bump was GONE and then I could 'season' to taste with the Martin Logan suggestions for phase (90 degrees) use of the 3rd order filter, and INVERTED signal. Crossover set to 35 Hz. and it is really pretty impressive. The 1600X hardly makes a sound until a symphonic bass drum is struck, or the underscore of the pipeorgan 32' pedal stops are in use! Really a great piece and your video with the Martin Logan rep and Dynamo series was very informative. Thank YOU !
You can absolutely get tight, musical bass from ported subwoofers. It's all in the set up. I have 3 in my room and the bass is as tight and musical as I can imagine. Equally as good as when I had sealed subs only now I have more extension.
I'm staring at my pb-3000's so I'm glad to hear you say that. One question for a future conversation- If I have two subs on opposite ends of the room do I eq them both the same?
Im using my 2 61/2” velodyne mini vee sealed and. Im very happy with the amount of deep punch they provide for music and movies call me old school but i will not change untill they are done thanks for the video Gene good one.
I put two sealed 8 inch slim pioneer subs in my car under the front seats, just trying something out. The patent wasn't even confirmed yet. I also bought a normal 10 inch for the trunk which I was going to put in a vented enclosure. Admittedly I didn't fully understand how subs worked. But I never installed the 10 inch as the sealed 8 inch pair worked amazingly!
For an average person that doesn't know much and just plops the sub down and lets the receiver do room correction sealed subs are easier to integrate, sounding better. At least that was my experience before learning things. I experimented with a PSA v1510 and a PSA XS-30se for a period I personally liked the way the sealed sounded better overall but wasn't getting that oomph the ported provided. Using new knowledge and REW with sub knob adjustments I was able to get the two to play nice together where I was able to get the sound quality and oomph until the lower than port tune stuff. Flight of the Phoenix Barrel Roll, Edge of Tomorrow intro, etc that I got some overworked sub sounds. I now have two S3000i and that XS-30se EQed from a MiniDSP and I get all the oomph plus some and the great sound quality with never an overworked sub sound. Because of those experiences I prefer sealed.
Flight of the Phoenix plane scenes give both subwoofers and speakers a real good work out! A lot of mid bass on the speakers. And plenty of lower (plus also some subsonic down to around 10hz) bass on the subwoofers.
I have no skill set in the area of calibration. So I also went with the Rels That are connected straight into the speaker terminals. Seems to have a much better affect on calibration than anything else I’ve been able to do.
You should connect your subs to the dedicated sub out of your AVR otherwise they are not playing LFE unless you turn the subwoofer channel off and set your main speakers to large. Absolutely no good reason to run subs speaker level in a home theater install.
During the early days of speaker DIY, forum members in general only talking about one subwoofer, ported or sealed. Musicality is not such a big issue but quality of the subwoofer drivers is as I recalled (late 1990s to early 2000s), due to the non directional nature of the low frequency sounds. Also, not many musical instruments can produce sounds below 40 Hz, except pipe organ. As of now, I still use a ported subwoofer for my HT room and sometime for music in stereo, and be done with it.
When you try to put 2 sealed subs in your room your wife will complain. When you try to put 2 ported subs in a room she will shriek. Sealed = more musical.
Gene, I agree, with all your points. Regardless, a Seal Sub, is more likely, to "Keep It Simple". As It's less likely, to require EQ & Room Treatment, in a "real world" listening environment ... just sayin'. ;-)
Nope. Had a custom one made for an MTX sub years ago for cars and moving that into the theater. Hits hard as hell. Even had people wanting to go into my tiny trunk with this box bc of how hard it hit. Full body massage anyone? It was deafening but clean at around 35hz. 🤩
I find manufactured subs aside from servo subs to be kind of hilarious. It is a square box with a hole cut out and couldn’t be easier to put together. Sealed means you do not need to design ports and with the space you can save in a sealed design you can go huge with the driver and still be in a relatively small box. With that larger driver you can get extension rather low. I bought 2x 18 inch dayton audio UM 18-22 drivers for $500 which included a 1500 W crown K-1 amplifier. My single sb2000 cost more than this and cries uncle when it tries to keep up. Albeit it’s much smaller and more easily hidden. If I were to do it all over again I think I might try two15 inches instead of the 18 inch monsters. I think you hit the nail on the head in explaining that people perceive lower extension as slower because, indeed lower frequencies are, by definition, larger wavelengths.
i like both ported an sealed each have there advantages , like you said gene if designed properly both are good but to my ears i prefer the biggest sealed box i can get, i have 3 subwoofers in my system 2 ported 1 sealed, i could not be happier
I ended going with a sealed SVS 2000 Pro just because what I had read was that sealed would give you tighter musical bass. The sub has been great and does rattle the walls with the movies, but I found this informative. What type of equipment do use to measure your bass response?
Question for Gene, 2 ported subs ie PB4000’s vs 4 SB4000’s having 2 stacked on each other. Sealed being less efficient but doubling down on displacement and power.
Nice one Gene, I'm using 4 ported subs, it took some work getting it right, but I can walk around my lounge/music/movie room, or within my house and the bass response is great, even if I go outside, it still sounds great, I love base and good management counts. On the subject of base, with drums, big base drums producing a lot of base, would a base trap mimicking a drum be an option???? As to other base traps.
Does anyone know of a link that explains how much louder for example a 30Hz tone has to be to have the same perceptual loudness as a 80Hz frequency? I remember once reading a Bob Carver article referring to this phenomenon and how it applied to optimal bass.
I subjectiveky feel ported subs should used for home theater LFE. (All commercial theaters use ported). Use sealed subs for critical listening, (music). Sealed cabinets are smaller. Ported cabinets are larger. As far as transient response, (cone ctrl, speed of which cone stops, then starts excursion again), is debatable that sealed has better TR. We use old school MX-350's; (dual 12s in a sealed cabinet. Drivers wired for push-pull). We use two cabinets, (4) 12s. As Gene counsels, room shape, room size, and room acoustics play a factor on deep, hardest hitting bass. Room EQ and multiple subs placed asymmetrically tend to reproduce a smoother splice with the mains and surround and atmos satellite speakers. Two subs deliver more output; along with minimizing standing waves. I'm Ken Kreisel's friend, he gave me pointers, but the key is experimentation.
I think the ported vs sealed issue was truer a decade ago or so, modern well designed ported subs are not an issue. I use sealed for their compact size at this point.
I’ve always owned ported subwoofers but I recently tried the SVS SB-2000 on sale for $500 and I ended up returning it. It didn’t hit the Lows that good. This was going to be used for music and movies. The goal was to replace my Klipsch SPL-120 subwoofer($400 on sale) for something of better quality but I enjoyed the Klipsch more even though it’s spec’d to go down to only 24hz vs 19hz for the SVS. I tried a mini dsp and EQing it but still couldn’t dial it in to sound the way I wanted. The SVS did have have better build quality and looked nicer. It also had a smaller footprint which helps for those limited in space. Sound is very subjective so everyone’s taste and preferences vary. I would like yo try sealed again but I’m probably going to have to spend a little more to get something I’m happy with.
I have 2 of the HSU VTF15H MK II and they are great. Seating position in a couch and one on either side (nearfield) with one port open. I love the HSU in the fact that it is user customizable. I tried sealed for a while but still liked one port open for bass you could feel and better efficiency. Also use DSPeaker antimode room correction device.
@@Cristo12344 actually they were on a big back order. I bought 2 Monolith 15s. They are killer. I like them much more that my HSU. I have a mini DSP HD, so all three are running in my system, with a butt shaker bolted into my couch. love it. if you want killer bass, hit up Monolith. I also ordered SVS PB2000 pros. But, I returned those since I didn’t care for the way they sounded for the money.
I think a lot of this myth comes from the observation that most cheap subwoofers are ported. It straight up costs alot more money to build a 'good' sealed subwoofer than a ported sub. Your driver has to have a much stronger construction to cope with the increased pressures and not have significant cone breakup, stiffer cone, bigger magnet, bigger coil etc, then you need a more powerful amp to drive all that. by porting a sub you can build a cheaper product that sounds 'better' to the masses. The far majority of us are shopping at a price point where money is determining the level of engineering going into said product.
A sealed woofer has a gentle drop off in the lows. A vented woofer drops down to the lows with higher volume, but tends to have a sharper drop in the lows flow the frequency its design for. I prefer vented or ported.
I´d say sealed every day. Just buy/build a little bit too big box, but not as big as the vented, say you get an 18" instead of a 15", then get some good amplifier and a dsp or a parametric eq to rise the level at the bottom frequencys. You will get a very tight and controlled sound that keeps up with the low that a vented produces. The 18" sealed with good element i still smaller than the 15" vented.
I have both and my sealed is a cheap Yamaha that someone gave me. I mostly listen to music and when I used the ported, even in multiple areas, it just didn’t have the quick response. Once I put the sealed one back in….kaboom. My go to test song is Steely Dan Aja, it put a smile on my face when the drum parts came in.
Aside from having decent enough quality subs that can produce fast and accurate bass, room treatment is the answer. If youve measured your room and are finding yourself EQing dips/peaks what have you, in an attempt to correct something, specifically bass related, you need to treat your room...properly that is. It doesnt even need to be well treated, just the fundamentals being low freq energy. Youd be surprised how musical a low-mid end system and subs can sound with proper treatment, ported or not.
I bought 2 the other week used one is a velodyne eq max subwoofer 12 and a BK xls200 I think I like the eq max more for dance music and the BK for tv and movie use use
Transmission Line bass loading produces the best bass; easily superior to sealed or ported alignments. The problem is you need a large box, which doesn’t fit in to many people’s lives. They’re also more complicated than simply using an off the shelf port, and especially, just building a sealed box be it infinite baffle or acoustic suspension, and that scares a lot of people off
I think nobody should have a particular obtuse or religious view, either against or for ported/sealed subs. There are only technical facts and well known strengths and weaknesses, or compromises. At the same, you will find a lot of manufacturers who basically abused the ported design. The ported design is a good $ versus performance ratio, if you want to make it simplistic. And yes, as you've shown, some good ported design will offer a good group delay for instance. But no matter how we play with variables, physic is physic, good sealed subwoofers will always have a much better group delay and impuse response. Although, size goes both way. If you are constrained by size, you will probably look at a ported sub versus a sealed sub that is smaller. That's one way to look at it. You could also compare 2 subs of the same size. Some gigantic sealed sub (which are therefore the size of a ported sub) perfom very very well. And finally, EQ and amps are so powerful these days, I think we should revisit the sealed subwoofers a bit more. It can be viewed as digital versus analog filters/crossovers.
A recently designed cylindrical subwoofer enclosures with 3-D printed converging diverging nozzle ports to optimize the port velocity and minimize chuffing. What is the best way to share the design with you to discuss it?
I've got a "A" curve response BIC 12" 150watt ported Sub i've had for years ( didn't know it was "A" curve until recently) Looking to replace it with an SVS 12" Pro sealed or ported but haven't yet. Just got new towers and center this year. Can't really go dual. It will be in a corner. Biggest issue is wife likes a sub but detests the idea of panels or treatments i've shown whats available. Open concept living kitchen med size reflective room. What to do?
I guess it depends on the driver. I built a ported and a sealed enclosure for an SB acoustics sub and the ported sounds more effortless. There's no chuffing and the response is designed to be flat so it's not boomy. The sealed sub needs sounded kind of weak, but then maybe my amp wasn't up to the task. I ended up using the ported box.
I love my sealed 18s in my suv with like 7000 watts, hits so hard and mean omg. Most my homies like ported and tell me to go ported but ive had ported before and the sealed i feel the bass more and its meaner and like doesnt have all that wind that huge ported systems have. old school base and tons of power, lots of subs!
I always preferred the sound of a sealed sub. My last ported sub blew out on me after a few years and it was not driven very hard. The low frequency response was awesome, but I prefer the punchy sealed sub better and should hold-up better
Gene, you once told me to not mix ported and sealed subs in the same setup. Does the same logic apply if I use a mini DSP to do EQ ? And can I add for example a sb2000 pro to my pb3000 and pb2000 pro and have them sync nicely with each other ?
For Prog or Metal music I prefer a sealed unit, but for movies I like a good ported unit. I mix it up though I think It depends on the media being played my favorite is two sealed unit's.
Gene its hard question to answer unless your in my room of course i have pb 4k in right corner of my odd shape room which opens up to one side and left wall front back its one listening position only on a bed 7.1.4 the bass is fantastic for a odd shape room and no acoustics carpet room old style 37 year old bricks concrete ceiling about 6 meter long by 8 but the 8 wide is where it opens out i had installer have a listen yesterday it exactly how i watch my movies laying down on my bed and i said should i put second sub in back corner directly opposite to the front one he said a clean no i said why he said its plenty and sounds great in you one listening position does he have a point because i only listen in this one position all time i want gain hugely with a second behind me ?
Gene I always respect your videos. Very informative, based on facts. I love my PB-4000s and enjoy them immensely with music and movies. I listen to a lot of jazz fusion, soul and some rap and they perform well regardless. Sometime I forget how great they are until I listen to a great movies with Dolby Atmos. The depth and the mid bass produced spoils me. I also have PB-3000s and Hsu ULS-MK2, bass all around. Thanks again and if you notice, I pay attention to subs you and your team review, along with other great reviewers. Thanks for the advice over the years!
It's my understanding that when it comes to building your own sub box, sealed units are a bit more forgiving when it comes to box specs. Granted, any poorly designed box, or mismatched components won't sound good, but I believe this is even more so with a ported box. I bought a ported box for my truck based on other people's reviews. Bad idea, that. God awful, boomy sound, and I wasn't using cheap components. After winging it with a few modifications, it's now a solid sounding sealed box. I did lose a touch of the really deep bottom end, but the trade was worth it. Otherwise, that box was going in the dumpster. Think I'm pretty much sold on sealed units at this point.
I have dual SVS SB3000 because I have a Small room, if I had a bigger room I would have gone with the Ported Subs, I see some who put Huge Subs in a small room along with shelf speakers, generally speaking your Subs should match your Speakers
Always great content! Thank you! My system is still a work in progress, but I think it will always be that way. Always something new or something to adjust.
Don, Big fan - l'm very impressed of the superb work you do. Much love & respect from Australia 🇦🇺. Big Don a question if you please... I have an entertaining space of 13ftX25ft with 8ft ceilings I have a raised bar at the back (Bourbon & ice always available for you!) it's an open planned media room style theatre (one of your favourite designs if I'm correct?) If I'm using 4 identical subs concealed in each of the 4 corners with room treatments and these 4 subs are measured and further equalized to fix and smooth out any problematic room curves & responses. My question is with all of the aforementioned perfected what size subwoofers 10",12",15",18" SB or PB in your expert opinion will transform the bass in my media room into a world class home THX theatrical/musical audio experience.
I'd just like to see some labels or active pointers on the graphs so I can be sure exactly what your describing from the graphs instead of guessing. I am not doing surround sound, strictly stereo for me. carbonate
.,.,AMAZON: Yep, I bought a ton on the dip. Amazon invested $14 billion in the last quarter alone, the same as it spent in 6 months before that. It is a do not sell stock. ...With the Delta virus coming at full speed ahead, pandemic sales will make a comeback. Amazon is investing so much money, that no competitor will ever be able to catch up. Amazon's not going anywhere so I know that eventually it will come back. Fidelity considers Amazon as a large growth company (probably because as big as it is, it still only has 7% of the retail market) Get on board or be runover, it's up to you.
I plugged my ports in my SVS subs to make them sealed, and I got tighter bass that still extends below 18hz for movies when corner placed. The unnatural boominess disappeared for movies. I wish I would have done this a long time ago.
@@sg1ds919 I have two SVS PC12+ subs that I've had for over a decade. I have identical responses from 18-45hz now across my front three seats with them plugged. Movies and music both sound tighter and better. Makes me mad I waited so long to try it
Well the group delay is also affected by the cone mass ? Compare a ultimax 18 vs a PA 18 inch sub from like Eminence. If you put both in sealed and ported enclosures, shouldn't the eminence be "faster" in both cases just because the cone is soo light ? Also because the cone is soo light they have a higher sensitivity which means they don't need a lot of power for the same db level, this means less cone movement, less distortion and less group delay. This is the reason why PA drivers sound soo "alive" I wish more manufactures start using paper coned drivers again. The only issue with light paper cone subs is that the rigidity is not that high and they can't play low. But yeah, pros and cons, nothing is perfect.
I like my DIY ACI Titan ll's a lot, (yeah, I'm THAT old) they might not reach down as low as bigger, ported units, but they sound great for music and can for sure piss off my neighbors, and I live in a single family home.
Thanks for the video and it is time to remove myths and more talking about subwoofers. If possible in the video of your new room, it would be nice if you could put the .mdat file of Room EQ Wizard for example and thus be able to see the acoustics of your room with the acoustic treatment you have. Written with Google translate Greetings
Had to go sealed, because I haven't got the space for two ported subs. So I bought two SB-1000 and I'm completely satisfied. All I can say is, if you're unsure if seald subs are for you ... give it at least a try ;)
I think the more important question is why the wife is opposed to large subwoofers. It seems that universally and in any language, it’s the wife who opposes the large subwoofer. What is it about the X chromosome that is adversely affected by the large subwoofer.
I had 2 Klipsch SPL-150's, but heard they were suppose to make a better one & so I sold 1. 6 months later I'm getting tad impatient since 2 subs EQ'd sound better >_< some think I'm nuts for having the 2 in such a small room but for sure was a difference
I'd look at other brands than Klipsch personally since subs don't have timbre like main speakers do so you don't need to mach. SVS, HSU, Rythmik, and Power Sound Audio all have 15"+ ported models that will have a low group delay, no port noise and significantly better CTA2010 (CEA2010) numbers than your SPL150 especially in that 31.5-20hz range.
@@TylerStout I would LOVE PSA 21" subs but the cost is to much.. and this may sound crazy but after seeing so many good things about svs pb16 ultra and buying them, I had them for about 2 weeks and wasn't impressed. I bought an spl-150 and compared 1 to 1 & After doing measurements and tests I thought I was going nuts but I brought my friend over and he agreed the Klipsch sounded better. Even blind test wise we heard slightly more detail and audio measured about almost equal on room eq. So, think I'm just going to play it safe with what I have. If I'm ever making lots of $ though & Klipsch doesn't make anything more then a 15" subs I'd like to switch to PSA- if money and room size allows
A good subwoofer is a good subwoofer. Wish people understood that. I cringe on so many forums or Facebook groups I visit where these myths are blindly repeated and spewed with regularity.
Female multi sub owner here, I recently switched out my ported subs for sealed and must say it is the best decision I have made for my system. I am enjoying my system much more than before. I don't believe either ported or sealed is better than the other. However, I do believe my room is better suited for sealed subwoofers.
I have tried both ported and sealed subwoofers in my listening environment, and prefer the experience with sealed. An SVS SB16-Ultra to be exact. 👍🏻
Same here. I've tried every sub I've owned ported and sealed - sealed sounded much better with music in every case. Maybe they were all badly designed, I don't know but they were Infinity, Formula F-12, a cheap Denon HTIB sub, and mtx thunder 7000 series...my room (office) is small, and could be due to cabin gain...
There is one "advantage" to sealed subs...due to the closed box, the driver will stop very quickly, because the air inside the box resists being compressed. A ported sub can also stop moving quickly, but it requires strong magnets and a good design.
Maybe that plays a role as well...
Well designed ported subs are good, well designed sealed subs are great. The only reason to get a ported sub over sealed is for more output. If you have the cash just get more sealed.
@@rolandrohde motor force or bl
I love my sealed 18" Rhymik F18. I went with sealed because the ported model is ridiculously massive, and my room is medium-sized. 18" gives me all the extension I need and then some.
Sealed subs have less extension, which thus means less room mode interaction, so less problematic. Deeper bass also exists for longer, and so sealed subs with less bass are viewed as “tighter” as they have less audible decay.
Yes, I do agree. I used to have a pair of SVS PB2000, and adjusted using minidsp, but some how I still feel the bass is slow not tight. Then I replaced is with a pair or JL E112, and I feel the bass is tighter. For Gene, if may suggest, try to do a topic about subwoofer should be decouple or couple? As many of us still confuse which one is better. Thanks.
Unless it's a high end ported sub, I just call it what it really is. Fake bass. I can totally tell when someone has a pos ported sub lol But SVS and a few others do get it right however.
Yes it true sealed subs do roll off sooner but a sealed sub with enough power will extended deeper in the frequency range than say a ported sub at 19hz. Look at graphs sealed will have more output say around 10hz vs a ported 19hz in the proper alignment. Ported is more efficient
@@E_iN_G7 It depends on the room. A room that is too small won't benefit from a ported sub.
@@E_iN_G7 It will need to be an expensive sealed sub for the output at 10Hz to be meaningful. Also, once you go past like 15Hz you risk damaging your sub, Rythmik has a bass limiter switch that they recommend for movies with deep bass (they specifically mention the opening scene of Edge of Tomorrow).
I understand and coincide with audio enthusiasts who want accurate bass for music. Hence choosing subs that they feel sounds the most realistic. However with Home theater, a good quality sealed or ported subwoofer that digs down to at least 20Hz before it starts to roll off will reproduce car crashes, explosions, gun fire and foot stomps just fine and very satisfying.
In real life? A car crash or explosion, thunder, or a big rig truck driving by for example doesn't come through a subwoofer. The sound and subsonic frequencies are all filtered by the objects near by. Meaning, if you're lucky to survive an explosion at 15-20 feet away, the ultrasonic frequencies will be all over the place. Peaks, dips and out of phase. Bouncing off of buildings and objects before it gets to you. So in other words, think about the reality of what you are really trying to reproduce. If you can make your room shake from 80hz to 20hz in phase without huge peaks and dips? You're doing good. Because in real life? There's no such thing as a flat frequency response with bass. You could witness an explosion 200-500 feet away and get a 40-50hz peak with a suck out at 30hz. Or 15hz. So relax, live a little and just try to get the best bass possible without sweating it. Shake the room. It's fun! If you're getting too much at 50hz and it's drowning out lower frequencies, just eq it down. No biggie...sealed or ported.
What? It's not about real life reproduction of un-edited footage. In most cases you try to recreate what has the creator done, which has definitely some standards = no unintentional dips or peaks. And the same goes for picture quality.
As a black metal guy I've never heard a 4th order sealed box that I've been happy with. Bot thats often sealed boxes with big boxes and large ports. A low FS element in a small sealed box that gives a lot of suspension and lots and lots of power is just beutiful for metal in my ears.
But my beast of a sub in my car is ported, because its so much when your hair leaves your head.
As long as you have the power and the cone area/Xmax and/or tuning that suites your room and the size of your bass head, both types has it merits.
For ME, I love the way a properly aligned sealed subwoofer sounds..for music. With movies I prefer a nice vented setup. Now what I'm trying to really get into is a good push push sub setup or a passive radiator setup.
Nice talk Gene! I am concerned about $, size, service, set up and of course listening. I took advantage of the 30 or 60 day return policies and actually ended up with an RSL 12 in Speedwoofer. I tried both SVS 16 Ultras, Rel T9x, and Kef. For my room the RSL sounded great and the price was right. I did have to pay partial return shipping on 2 of the subs, but I'm happy for now.
Both. You gotta get both.
Ported down to 15hz, sealed between 40hz-85hz, SPL matched at the listening position.
Placement, Room & listening position together make such a big difference, any one type of sub driven too hard will almost always set off room modes (boomy).
Different subs to cover a range of frequencies works best for home use (that includes music too, not just HT).
Mixing different subwoofers ported & sealed will give a non coherent mismatched sound. In bass for both music and movies. Unless you have the knowledge and skills to correctly apply external dsp to tune get them in sync. The average consumer ie 99% of people wouldn't be able to mix ported & sealed successfully.
All the reputable sub manufacturers SVS, JTR, etc recommend using the same identical subwoofers in the room. And if you can't then they recommend using a sub that is very close to the spec performance of your current sub.
What the hell are you talking about are you trying to say sealed only plays down to 40 that's asinine sealed plays 20 Hz up
As a car audio enthusiast, I've learned quite a bit from this channel.
That said, I have many different sub stages, both ported variety, and sealed. I honestly couldn't say if one was more musical than the other. Depends on what I'm listening to, in my opinion, and the volume in which that variety is played. Some bass heavy stuff sounds better sealed, and some music where bass information is low, sounds better ported, due to the gain.
I don't really know much about sq, but I'm learning and channels like this are priceless when trying to figure out what I want.
I have 16 6.5" midbass drivers, and 10 - 1" tweets on the way, 8 woofers and 5 tweeters per door. Looking for loud and decent SQ, I feel it should keep up with the sub stage... Lol!
Thanks for posting, these videos are great. Awesome content, to get the mind thinking and learning.
Would not claim that sealed is more musical, but that ported is just not always necessary, relative to the space they usually need. I lived with ported subs for two years in a music only system. They measured flat to right at around 20hz. Still, they rarely reached below 30+ with the music I listen to, which covers 5 genres. I was housing 10hz of range I rarely used. I only tried sealed when I started building my own. My music still sounded awesome. The sealed versions, seemed to have about the same roll off as the actual music instrument speakers had, in all but extreme cases, that revolved around music equipment set up to produce extremely low sub bass. Not only that, the sealed managed to report sub frequencies down to 20hz, in an audibly pleasing way. Not only that, now I have room for 4 subs, instead of 2.
Finally, I had also come to notice that many who had large ported subs, tended to play them at least 3db hot, emphasizing bass that was simply not meant to be so forward, and almost to the point of being somewhat obnoxious with it. And also revealing some not-so-favorable artifacts in the recordings that were undetectable otherwise, especially with classic rock. I had seen many of these bands live, and the bass was always pretty much level matched, with the mid range being more power oriented and forward.
I use subs to get the bass out of the mid range's cabinet, and to offer optional placement possibilities. I never suffered insufficient bass frequency range with music. To the contrary, with the rather large displacement speakers I tend to employ, I was instead trying to have enough, without rattling the neighbors windows. Sealed, with an F3 in the mid to lower 30hz range, is more potent than most people realize.
I split the difference and decided to get a sealed sub with a Passive Radiator. Enter the rel Ti series. I have dual Rel t9is in a 17wide by 25long room and it’s pure magic. Focus on quality over quality when it comes to Bass
That's interesting since passive radiators tend to have higher (hence worse) group delay when compared to equally designed ported subs. I guess the trick is that passive radiators allow for a deeper tuning in a smaller box which compensates for the otherwise higher group delay. Thus, you get a relatively smaller box with low tuning and no port noise.
If one is not restricted in cabinet size, however, there is really no benefit of a PR over a ported design.
That's not at all a sealed sub, not even close.
What you are saying is absolutely correct. If sealed subs were more musical, then hi - fi speakers schould mostly be sealed designs, which they are abviously not. In rooms, the room gain can be so extreme that even a very nicely designed sub will sound like a one note boom box, as soon as it hits lower frequencies with authority.
I think that sealed subs are easier to work with if one does not use equalizers.
I prefer sealed because in my room which is a rectangle, I get to put them at all 4 corners PLUS a pair of crowson actuators under my seats. The sealed subs at the corner gets quite a bit of boundary gain which helps everything under 30hz and then I slope them off at 16hz where the crowson actuators then take over to go down to 5hz.
It's the best of both worlds setting for me because everything below 16hz won't wake the entire neighborhood and there's more than enough output above that with 4 sealed subs.
I didn't choose ported because they took just a bit too much space for my little 1400cu ft room.
I've always used sealed for the fact, I prefer smaller enclosures. I used to think sealed for jazz and ported for bass heavy rap music.
My next home subs will be rhythmik, I believe servo is the way to go,but I am uneducated. I
Like the idea on how the cone can be controlled
Bigleftyinaz: Only by my own experience. I went from a sealed 18" sub that has nice room gain, but is a little bloated ( One note wonder ), but at the same time articulate for music, to 2 ported subs in the same positions. The new subs are much tighter and articulate, and certainly play more then one note in room. Preference is key on what anyone wants, but I have no reason to go back to sealed for "tighter" bass.. I also think that having ports gives you more flexibility with positioning, since you don't have to worry as much about room gain, since ported has more gain by nature, in the lower registers. For comparison, I did go from a Bag End 18" sealed 350 watts? to 2 Rhythmik FV-18 ported 900 watts. The new ones are certainly larger, ( think mini frig), but also quite dynamic and "tight".. Current room is 17'x25'x8' closed, with doors. I have system at the front of the 25' part of room. Maybe this will help you with your decision. G
I have a 10 inch sealed sub and it gows so low and dynamic for movies! I have a 4 inch ported Dayton audio sub 2.1 system and it sounds great for music at medium levels.
Great video, never understood why some self declared audiophiles reject ported subs outright (and some even reject sealed subs too) yet the vast majority of tower and bookshelf speakers are ported especially if they are full range. What's the difference?!
that is my thoughts about the subject look at all the expensive speakers Focal , B&W , Wilson they all have ports, my current speakers Tekton Double Impacts have 2 10" woofers with two large ports on each speaker.
Yes. Less group delay and better integration with the room acoustics.
Any good ported sub has group delay less than 1 cycle.
The model that best describes the mechanical behavior of woofer/enclosure performance is Newton's second law of motion applied to forced oscillation. Not all sealed subs are acoustic suspension designs. That design is the best one because you can control F3 and Q to be whatever you want it to be. The penalty is efficiency. The parameters are moving mass, damping, and spring constant. Generally for acoustic suspension speakers mass is high, compliance of the suspension is very high. The spring constant is controlled by the amount of air trapped inside the enclosure. Damping is controlled by the viscosity of air being pushed and pulled between the fibers and is proportional to velocity. The restoring force is due mostly to the difference in air pressure between the inside and outside. It is applied uniformly over the surface of the cone reducing radial and circumferential differences in force which tend to twist and shear the cone resulting in breakup into harmonic modes mechanical suspensions can produce.
Ported designs work like the pipe in a pipe organ allowing air to pass through easily at some frequencies, not so easily at others. Air turbulence at the ends of the port causes viscosity to change with amplitude and frequency resulting in chuffing. Typically ported designs have a high Q and fall off at 24 db per octave below system resonance. Critical damping is 0.707. This is the highest Q without a peak. Falloff below system resonance is 12 db per octave and is equalizable. BTW this ordinary second order differential equation is used in many applications such as designing the suspension of a car.
My portered box is custom and tuned well so its very accurate with sweet bottom end bass.
I like sealed subs better for what i want, they integrate easier with speaker and room and you can have multiple without taking over your space. Just keep in mind, im mostly music listener, so I dont need 20-30 hertz anyway.
Sealed will play down to 20hz though
Gene, you will appreciate this. I have the Martin Logan Classic 9's from the Masterpiece series. I just added the Dynamo 1600X in downward firing config strictly for 2.1 music - NO theater use.
My room is 23x18' and I had a HUGE bump at 25Hz. at my listening position 20' from the speakers. I ordered the 'Perfect Bass Kit' and ran the Anthem Room Correction using my laptop. I selected 5 sampling positions.
WOW, the 25Hz bump was GONE and then I could 'season' to taste with the Martin Logan suggestions for phase (90 degrees) use of the 3rd order filter, and INVERTED signal. Crossover set to 35 Hz. and it is really pretty impressive. The 1600X hardly makes a sound until a symphonic bass drum is struck, or the underscore of the pipeorgan 32' pedal stops are in use! Really a great piece and your video with the Martin Logan rep and Dynamo series was very informative. Thank YOU !
You can absolutely get tight, musical bass from ported subwoofers. It's all in the set up. I have 3 in my room and the bass is as tight and musical as I can imagine. Equally as good as when I had sealed subs only now I have more extension.
Musical base from ported*
I also found the same with mine.
@@esemy6256 thank you for that correction! I totally mistyped that! I was thinking "ported" and typed "sealed", lol. I fixed it.
@@Pohgrey no problem👍🏻
Informative as usual Gene!
I'm staring at my pb-3000's so I'm glad to hear you say that. One question for a future conversation- If I have two subs on opposite ends of the room do I eq them both the same?
What are your thoughts on something like the Rhythmik F18? Seems like you can get the low end but tight clean bass from being sealed.
Which should to buy Sealed or Ported Sub-woofer for multipurpose: listing music and watching movies?
Im using my 2 61/2” velodyne mini vee sealed and. Im very happy with the amount of deep punch they provide for music and movies call me old school but i will not change untill they are done thanks for the video Gene good one.
I put two sealed 8 inch slim pioneer subs in my car under the front seats, just trying something out. The patent wasn't even confirmed yet. I also bought a normal 10 inch for the trunk which I was going to put in a vented enclosure. Admittedly I didn't fully understand how subs worked. But I never installed the 10 inch as the sealed 8 inch pair worked amazingly!
I’m using HEDD BASS 08 with Type 07 MK2. It lets you switch between open and sealed. I prefer closed ports.
For an average person that doesn't know much and just plops the sub down and lets the receiver do room correction sealed subs are easier to integrate, sounding better. At least that was my experience before learning things. I experimented with a PSA v1510 and a PSA XS-30se for a period I personally liked the way the sealed sounded better overall but wasn't getting that oomph the ported provided. Using new knowledge and REW with sub knob adjustments I was able to get the two to play nice together where I was able to get the sound quality and oomph until the lower than port tune stuff. Flight of the Phoenix Barrel Roll, Edge of Tomorrow intro, etc that I got some overworked sub sounds. I now have two S3000i and that XS-30se EQed from a MiniDSP and I get all the oomph plus some and the great sound quality with never an overworked sub sound. Because of those experiences I prefer sealed.
Flight of the Phoenix plane scenes give both subwoofers and speakers a real good work out!
A lot of mid bass on the speakers. And plenty of lower (plus also some subsonic down to around 10hz) bass on the subwoofers.
I have no skill set in the area of calibration. So I also went with the Rels That are connected straight into the speaker terminals. Seems to have a much better affect on calibration than anything else I’ve been able to do.
You should connect your subs to the dedicated sub out of your AVR otherwise they are not playing LFE unless you turn the subwoofer channel off and set your main speakers to large. Absolutely no good reason to run subs speaker level in a home theater install.
During the early days of speaker DIY, forum members in general only talking about one subwoofer, ported or sealed. Musicality is not such a big issue but quality of the subwoofer drivers is as I recalled (late 1990s to early 2000s), due to the non directional nature of the low frequency sounds. Also, not many musical instruments can produce sounds below 40 Hz, except pipe organ. As of now, I still use a ported subwoofer for my HT room and sometime for music in stereo, and be done with it.
When you try to put 2 sealed subs in your room your wife will complain. When you try to put 2 ported subs in a room she will shriek. Sealed = more musical.
Just get a bass horn and settle it once and for all 😋🤣
I just entered 4 sealed subs, two stacked on each side. Let's see what happens
Passive radiator is popular with hifi speakers and subs but it's a ported with steeper rollof
I have both. Slot ported in front and sealed behind.
Gene, I agree, with all your points. Regardless, a Seal Sub, is more likely, to "Keep It Simple". As It's less likely, to require EQ & Room Treatment, in a "real world" listening environment ... just sayin'. ;-)
Nope. Had a custom one made for an MTX sub years ago for cars and moving that into the theater. Hits hard as hell. Even had people wanting to go into my tiny trunk with this box bc of how hard it hit. Full body massage anyone?
It was deafening but clean at around 35hz. 🤩
I find manufactured subs aside from servo subs to be kind of hilarious. It is a square box with a hole cut out and couldn’t be easier to put together. Sealed means you do not need to design ports and with the space you can save in a sealed design you can go huge with the driver and still be in a relatively small box. With that larger driver you can get extension rather low. I bought 2x 18 inch dayton audio UM 18-22 drivers for $500 which included a 1500 W crown K-1 amplifier. My single sb2000 cost more than this and cries uncle when it tries to keep up. Albeit it’s much smaller and more easily hidden.
If I were to do it all over again I think I might try two15 inches instead of the 18 inch monsters. I think you hit the nail on the head in explaining that people perceive lower extension as slower because, indeed lower frequencies are, by definition, larger wavelengths.
Best audio info available, thanks Gene!
That was super useful and made perfect sense. Thank you very much
I was torn between SVS PB-3000 and SB-3000, and glad I got the SB sealed. It looks better, smaller, lighter, and gloss piano black is beautiful.
i like both ported an sealed each have there advantages , like you said gene if designed properly both are good but to my ears i prefer the biggest sealed box i can get, i have 3 subwoofers in my system 2 ported 1 sealed, i could not be happier
I ended going with a sealed SVS 2000 Pro just because what I had read was that sealed would give you tighter musical bass. The sub has been great and does rattle the walls with the movies, but I found this informative. What type of equipment do use to measure your bass response?
Most common is Room EQ Wizard (REW) and a calibrated microphone such as the UMIK-1
@@TylerStout thanks, I appreciate it 🙏
Great article again Gene. Thank you so much...
Question for Gene, 2 ported subs ie PB4000’s vs 4 SB4000’s having 2 stacked on each other. Sealed being less efficient but doubling down on displacement and power.
4 SB4000s, one in each corner for the win.
@@Audioholics what if I only have room up front? Its 2 big PB4000 vs 4 sealed SB4000’s
Nice one Gene, I'm using 4 ported subs, it took some work getting it right, but I can walk around my lounge/music/movie room, or within my house and the bass response is great, even if I go outside, it still sounds great, I love base and good management counts.
On the subject of base, with drums, big base drums producing a lot of base, would a base trap mimicking a drum be an option???? As to other base traps.
Hey Gene did you ever get the chance to test the specs of the crown xls 2502 power amp ?
Does anyone know of a link that explains how much louder for example a 30Hz tone has to be to have the same perceptual loudness as a 80Hz frequency? I remember once reading a Bob Carver article referring to this phenomenon and how it applied to optimal bass.
I subjectiveky feel ported subs should used for home theater LFE. (All commercial theaters use ported). Use sealed subs for critical listening, (music). Sealed cabinets are smaller. Ported cabinets are larger. As far as transient response, (cone ctrl, speed of which cone stops, then starts excursion again), is debatable that sealed has better TR. We use old school MX-350's; (dual 12s in a sealed cabinet. Drivers wired for push-pull). We use two cabinets, (4) 12s. As Gene counsels, room shape, room size, and room acoustics play a factor on deep, hardest hitting bass. Room EQ and multiple subs placed asymmetrically tend to reproduce a smoother splice with the mains and surround and atmos satellite speakers. Two subs deliver more output; along with minimizing standing waves. I'm Ken Kreisel's friend, he gave me pointers, but the key is experimentation.
I think the ported vs sealed issue was truer a decade ago or so, modern well designed ported subs are not an issue. I use sealed for their compact size at this point.
I’ve always owned ported subwoofers but I recently tried the SVS SB-2000 on sale for $500 and I ended up returning it. It didn’t hit the Lows that good. This was going to be used for music and movies. The goal was to replace my Klipsch SPL-120 subwoofer($400 on sale) for something of better quality but I enjoyed the Klipsch more even though it’s spec’d to go down to only 24hz vs 19hz for the SVS. I tried a mini dsp and EQing it but still couldn’t dial it in to sound the way I wanted. The SVS did have have better build quality and looked nicer. It also had a smaller footprint which helps for those limited in space. Sound is very subjective so everyone’s taste and preferences vary. I would like yo try sealed again but I’m probably going to have to spend a little more to get something I’m happy with.
Just ordered my second HSU VTF2 Mk5
I have 2 of the HSU VTF15H MK II and they are great. Seating position in a couch and one on either side (nearfield) with one port open. I love the HSU in the fact that it is user customizable. I tried sealed for a while but still liked one port open for bass you could feel and better efficiency. Also use DSPeaker antimode room correction device.
Tearial311...how do you like your vtf-2 mk5's? Are you running them sealed?
I'm deciding between 2 vtf-2 mk5's or 2 arendal 1961 1S's.
@@Cristo12344 actually they were on a big back order. I bought 2 Monolith 15s. They are killer. I like them much more that my HSU. I have a mini DSP HD, so all three are running in my system, with a butt shaker bolted into my couch. love it. if you want killer bass, hit up Monolith. I also ordered SVS PB2000 pros. But, I returned those since I didn’t care for the way they sounded for the money.
@@Cristo12344 I also am running the Arendal 1723 THX towers with their center channel. Never heard their subs, but my front 3 sound wonderful
I think a lot of this myth comes from the observation that most cheap subwoofers are ported. It straight up costs alot more money to build a 'good' sealed subwoofer than a ported sub. Your driver has to have a much stronger construction to cope with the increased pressures and not have significant cone breakup, stiffer cone, bigger magnet, bigger coil etc, then you need a more powerful amp to drive all that. by porting a sub you can build a cheaper product that sounds 'better' to the masses. The far majority of us are shopping at a price point where money is determining the level of engineering going into said product.
Bingo, apparently he hasn't heard a 13w7 JLAudio in a ported box.
A sealed woofer has a gentle drop off in the lows. A vented woofer drops down to the lows with higher volume, but tends to have a sharper drop in the lows flow the frequency its design for. I prefer vented or ported.
I´d say sealed every day.
Just buy/build a little bit too big box, but not as big as the vented, say you get an 18" instead of a 15", then get some good amplifier and a dsp or a parametric eq to rise the level at the bottom frequencys.
You will get a very tight and controlled sound that keeps up with the low that a vented produces.
The 18" sealed with good element i still smaller than the 15" vented.
What do you mean by low frequency coupling below 30 hz? Does that mean the second sub adds 6db to output below 30 hz even if not co-located?
I have a 15 square meter room. Thinking of sealed subs in there then.
I have both and my sealed is a cheap Yamaha that someone gave me. I mostly listen to music and when I used the ported, even in multiple areas, it just didn’t have the quick response. Once I put the sealed one back in….kaboom. My go to test song is Steely Dan Aja, it put a smile on my face when the drum parts came in.
Aside from having decent enough quality subs that can produce fast and accurate bass, room treatment is the answer. If youve measured your room and are finding yourself EQing dips/peaks what have you, in an attempt to correct something, specifically bass related, you need to treat your room...properly that is. It doesnt even need to be well treated, just the fundamentals being low freq energy. Youd be surprised how musical a low-mid end system and subs can sound with proper treatment, ported or not.
I bought 2 the other week used one is a velodyne eq max subwoofer 12 and a BK xls200 I think I like the eq max more for dance music and the BK for tv and movie use use
Transmission Line bass loading produces the best bass; easily superior to sealed or ported alignments. The problem is you need a large box, which doesn’t fit in to many people’s lives. They’re also more complicated than simply using an off the shelf port, and especially, just building a sealed box be it infinite baffle or acoustic suspension, and that scares a lot of people off
I think nobody should have a particular obtuse or religious view, either against or for ported/sealed subs. There are only technical facts and well known strengths and weaknesses, or compromises.
At the same, you will find a lot of manufacturers who basically abused the ported design. The ported design is a good $ versus performance ratio, if you want to make it simplistic. And yes, as you've shown, some good ported design will offer a good group delay for instance. But no matter how we play with variables, physic is physic, good sealed subwoofers will always have a much better group delay and impuse response.
Although, size goes both way. If you are constrained by size, you will probably look at a ported sub versus a sealed sub that is smaller. That's one way to look at it. You could also compare 2 subs of the same size. Some gigantic sealed sub (which are therefore the size of a ported sub) perfom very very well.
And finally, EQ and amps are so powerful these days, I think we should revisit the sealed subwoofers a bit more. It can be viewed as digital versus analog filters/crossovers.
love u Gene.... which is better for me sealed or ported? how do I have you consult with me, would love your opinions.....
A recently designed cylindrical subwoofer enclosures with 3-D printed converging diverging nozzle ports to optimize the port velocity and minimize chuffing. What is the best way to share the design with you to discuss it?
I've got a "A" curve response BIC 12" 150watt ported Sub i've had for years ( didn't know it was "A" curve until recently) Looking to replace it with an SVS 12" Pro sealed or ported but haven't yet. Just got new towers and center this year. Can't really go dual. It will be in a corner. Biggest issue is wife likes a sub but detests the idea of panels or treatments i've shown whats available. Open concept living kitchen med size reflective room. What to do?
I guess it depends on the driver. I built a ported and a sealed enclosure for an SB acoustics sub and the ported sounds more effortless. There's no chuffing and the response is designed to be flat so it's not boomy. The sealed sub needs sounded kind of weak, but then maybe my amp wasn't up to the task. I ended up using the ported box.
I love my sealed 18s in my suv with like 7000 watts, hits so hard and mean omg. Most my homies like ported and tell me to go ported but ive had ported before and the sealed i feel the bass more and its meaner and like doesnt have all that wind that huge ported systems have. old school base and tons of power, lots of subs!
I loved you on Curb.
I always preferred the sound of a sealed sub. My last ported sub blew out on me after a few years and it was not driven very hard. The low frequency response was awesome, but I prefer the punchy sealed sub better and should hold-up better
Great video my friend, love your work. Thank you!!
Gene, you once told me to not mix ported and sealed subs in the same setup. Does the same logic apply if I use a mini DSP to do EQ ? And can I add for example a sb2000 pro to my pb3000 and pb2000 pro and have them sync nicely with each other ?
you can do it IF you apply the proper HPF slope to the sealed to match the response and and below tuning of your ported subs.
Is there anyone near Pittsburgh that has rew? I need help tuning my system. I have 3 klipsch spl 150s and 2 slp 120s.
I do not have qnyway of doing it. Except with my onkyo tx rz 3100. Anyone that can help would be greatly appreciated.
For Prog or Metal music I prefer a sealed unit, but for movies I like a good ported unit. I mix it up though I think It depends on the media being played my favorite is two sealed unit's.
Gene its hard question to answer unless your in my room of course i have pb 4k in right corner of my odd shape room which opens up to one side and left wall front back its one listening position only on a bed 7.1.4 the bass is fantastic for a odd shape room and no acoustics carpet room old style 37 year old bricks concrete ceiling about 6 meter long by 8 but the 8 wide is where it opens out i had installer have a listen yesterday it exactly how i watch my movies laying down on my bed and i said should i put second sub in back corner directly opposite to the front one he said a clean no i said why he said its plenty and sounds great in you one listening position does he have a point because i only listen in this one position all time i want gain hugely with a second behind me ?
Accoustic carpet doesn't influence bass at all.
@@xavdeman that didn’t answer my question was the least thing i wanted to know
Gene I always respect your videos. Very informative, based on facts. I love my PB-4000s and enjoy them immensely with music and movies. I listen to a lot of jazz fusion, soul and some rap and they perform well regardless. Sometime I forget how great they are until I listen to a great movies with Dolby Atmos. The depth and the mid bass produced spoils me. I also have PB-3000s and Hsu ULS-MK2, bass all around. Thanks again and if you notice, I pay attention to subs you and your team review, along with other great reviewers. Thanks for the advice over the years!
It's my understanding that when it comes to building your own sub box, sealed units are a bit more forgiving when it comes to box specs. Granted, any poorly designed box, or mismatched components won't sound good, but I believe this is even more so with a ported box. I bought a ported box for my truck based on other people's reviews. Bad idea, that. God awful, boomy sound, and I wasn't using cheap components. After winging it with a few modifications, it's now a solid sounding sealed box. I did lose a touch of the really deep bottom end, but the trade was worth it. Otherwise, that box was going in the dumpster. Think I'm pretty much sold on sealed units at this point.
Very clear explanation...
I have dual SVS SB3000 because I have a Small room, if I had a bigger room I would have gone with the Ported Subs, I see some who put Huge Subs in a small room along with shelf speakers, generally speaking your Subs should match your Speakers
(blast from the past)... In Hugo's voice...How about Servo Ported subs Gene?
Ported with DSP.
Always great content! Thank you! My system is still a work in progress, but I think it will always be that way. Always something new or something to adjust.
Thanks for the video
Great job boss!
Hey bro! Remember me from the mid to late 90's? How can I get in touch with you?
Don,
Big fan - l'm very impressed of the superb work you do. Much love & respect from Australia 🇦🇺.
Big Don a question if you please...
I have an entertaining space of 13ftX25ft with 8ft ceilings I have a raised bar at the back (Bourbon & ice always available for you!) it's an open planned media room style theatre (one of your favourite designs if I'm correct?)
If I'm using 4 identical subs concealed in each of the 4 corners with room treatments and these 4 subs are measured and further equalized to fix and smooth out any problematic room curves & responses.
My question is with all of the aforementioned perfected what size subwoofers 10",12",15",18" SB or PB in your expert opinion will transform the bass in my media room into a world class home THX theatrical/musical audio experience.
Jen well said so glad i went 4k pb love it
Sealed sub with passive radiator.... the best of both worlds.
I'd just like to see some labels or active pointers on the graphs so I can be sure exactly what your describing from the graphs instead of guessing. I am not doing surround sound, strictly stereo for me. carbonate
I didn't realize my cursor couldn't be seen when I put up the measurements. Next time, I will do screenshare.
.,.,AMAZON:
Yep, I bought a ton on the dip.
Amazon invested $14 billion in the last quarter alone, the same as it spent in 6 months before that. It is a do not sell stock.
...With the Delta virus coming at full speed ahead, pandemic sales will make a comeback.
Amazon is investing so much money, that no competitor will ever be able to catch up.
Amazon's not going anywhere so I know that eventually it will come back.
Fidelity considers Amazon as a large growth company (probably because as big as it is, it still only has 7% of the retail market)
Get on board or be runover, it's up to you.
Can ported subs deliver a strong punch sealed subs are known for? If so, what do I need to do to achieve this?
I plugged my ports in my SVS subs to make them sealed, and I got tighter bass that still extends below 18hz for movies when corner placed. The unnatural boominess disappeared for movies. I wish I would have done this a long time ago.
I plugged my ports as well. I couldn't tell differents. I have the SVS PB 1000 Pro.
@@sg1ds919 I have two SVS PC12+ subs that I've had for over a decade. I have identical responses from 18-45hz now across my front three seats with them plugged. Movies and music both sound tighter and better. Makes me mad I waited so long to try it
Thinking about doing the same when my second HSU gets delivered.
Well the group delay is also affected by the cone mass ?
Compare a ultimax 18 vs a PA 18 inch sub from like Eminence. If you put both in sealed and ported enclosures, shouldn't the eminence be "faster" in both cases just because the cone is soo light ?
Also because the cone is soo light they have a higher sensitivity which means they don't need a lot of power for the same db level, this means less cone movement, less distortion and less group delay.
This is the reason why PA drivers sound soo "alive" I wish more manufactures start using paper coned drivers again.
The only issue with light paper cone subs is that the rigidity is not that high and they can't play low. But yeah, pros and cons, nothing is perfect.
I like my DIY ACI Titan ll's a lot, (yeah, I'm THAT old) they might not reach down as low as bigger, ported units, but they sound great for music and can for sure piss off my neighbors, and I live in a single family home.
can you just pair a sealed with a ported ?
Too small enclosures is the problem. And some drivers are designed for bass reflex or closed.
Thanks Gene. Cutting through the crap, as always.
Thanks for the video and it is time to remove myths and more talking about subwoofers.
If possible in the video of your new room, it would be nice if you could put the .mdat file of Room EQ Wizard for example and thus be able to see the acoustics of your room with the acoustic treatment you have.
Written with Google translate
Greetings
Had to go sealed, because I haven't got the space for two ported subs. So I bought two SB-1000 and I'm completely satisfied. All I can say is, if you're unsure if seald subs are for you ... give it at least a try ;)
Single Sealed sub, the wife loves it! Therefore I am happy!
I think the more important question is why the wife is opposed to large subwoofers. It seems that universally and in any language, it’s the wife who opposes the large subwoofer. What is it about the X chromosome that is adversely affected by the large subwoofer.
ported vs sealed
only main difference are OUTPUT and FREQUENCY RESPONSE
I had 2 Klipsch SPL-150's, but heard they were suppose to make a better one & so I sold 1. 6 months later I'm getting tad impatient since 2 subs EQ'd sound better >_< some think I'm nuts for having the 2 in such a small room but for sure was a difference
I'd look at other brands than Klipsch personally since subs don't have timbre like main speakers do so you don't need to mach. SVS, HSU, Rythmik, and Power Sound Audio all have 15"+ ported models that will have a low group delay, no port noise and significantly better CTA2010 (CEA2010) numbers than your SPL150 especially in that 31.5-20hz range.
@@TylerStout I would LOVE PSA 21" subs but the cost is to much.. and this may sound crazy but after seeing so many good things about svs pb16 ultra and buying them, I had them for about 2 weeks and wasn't impressed. I bought an spl-150 and compared 1 to 1 & After doing measurements and tests I thought I was going nuts but I brought my friend over and he agreed the Klipsch sounded better. Even blind test wise we heard slightly more detail and audio measured about almost equal on room eq. So, think I'm just going to play it safe with what I have. If I'm ever making lots of $ though & Klipsch doesn't make anything more then a 15" subs I'd like to switch to PSA- if money and room size allows