The difference between a good and great fight scene
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- Опубликовано: 9 окт 2024
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@CaptainMack 's Video:
• Demon Slayer is Extrao...
Music in order of appearance:
On the Fritz - Dylan Sitts
Okras - Ever So Blue
Ooh Wee - baegal
Into Serenity - Chistoffer Moe Ditlevsen
#demonslayer #jujutsukaisen #pey
It has always driven me nuts when people say that Jujutsu Kaisen is "only fight scenes" when Demon Slayer exists in this same era of anime as an actual example of that.
Tbh I feel JJK IS as great as it is for its fights alone. Besides a couple really stand out episodes *eg S2E5, almost every highlight moment involves physical conflict, it’s just that nobody does better fight scenes than JJK, especially not demonslayer
It really is though. Its not a bad thing, but the scenes that arent fights are typically just there for exposition. Most character devolopment happens in the fight. This is evident with how lackluster its world building is.
@@kaiproductions7639thats just not true. Any scene with the characters just talking is always fun because of their fun personalities
@@kaiproductions7639 Man, even the fights have so much exposition. The manga just has huge boxes of text.
Because it's the MOST popular new gen anime, so all the haters are trying to bring it down with lies
Personally, my opinion of a fight scene lay in seeing the intent of the participants. A lot of choreography is about distracting you with colours and motions, a stream of superficial actions which exists just for the spectacle but does little to actually advance the combatants towards the fight's conclusion. There is merit in that, the ballet-esque fights of Wuxia films for instance... but I like to see minds actively working the riddle out of how to win and experiencing that with them. Whether it's the insane gambits of Araki's Stand battles or the brutal punch-outs of Hajime no Ippo -- Investing into the narrative of the fight is what makes it truly memorable to me.
Honestly you nailed my thoughts so well I don't need to write my own comment. I don't feel like Demon Slayer has that fundamental narrative or character building to support its fights, just pure visual spectacle, which is why I don't particularly care for it.
Samurai Champloo.
Fushiguro vs Toji is an example of a fight where I was shocked about how useful every action was
Yea but have you seen Garps Galaxy punch 🤤. But yea I agree with your view (ohh but that sometimes that hype just is OP)
@@FaunoAtelie the fight in the anime is a bastardised version of the real fight. same with all of shibuya arc fights. they added so much fluff and useless actions that the fights themselves lost any impact.
Demon Slayer is a flashy show, super fun and spectacular but incredibly shallow most of the time. This applies to everything: characters, worldbuilding, fights, plot, design, everything. I love to watch it, but its not even close to my top 50.
Heavily agree with you. I love the series, but honestly, the most in-depth part of the entire story is the meaning in the names of the cast.
"Meti (Not the Bad Guy)" has a ton of character breakdown videos including Demon Slayer.
Character designs are fire though
Not shallow. You just don't have the life experience to appreciate it. Nothing shalloe about Yoriichi/Kokushibo/Akaza/Gyutaro/Jigoro's story.
@@booker-d123 kokushibo and yoriichi are the only one I agree with lmao. Gyutaro and akaza were cliche and forced. Also tf jigoro even do to contribute to the story other than killing himself lmao
@@ardidsonriente2223 I mean that's the anime, a great adaption, but what about the non flashy manga? It has to have something else that intrigued people this long
With the jjk anime two of my favorite fught scenes are the two where yuji and todo are fighting together against a single enemy using the "boogie woogie" cursed technique. The fights are also good in the manga but nowhere near my favorites but in the anime they did such an amazing job realizing that power in a way that they couldn't quite do in the manga. Being able to use that clap sound with the hard cuts to things switching positions so fun to watch. They threaded the needle of making those transitions easy enough to follow while still being briefly disorienting. I had just so much fun watching those fights.
while not an anime I think that arcane also has some outstanding fights by this metric, especially episode 7.
It’s not just episode 7 either, character is constantly being built in every fight. The scrap for the stolen loot in episode one communicates Vi and Powder’s respective characters and struggles amazingly and wordlessly, in the second episodes enforcer encounter, we see Marcus prepare to fire at children to bring order, episode 3 is arguably Vander’s standout character moment in his brief fight, episode four, through body language, subtext, and subtle facial animation, communicates brilliantly the state of Jinx’s psyche post time skip, etc etc. Tiny decisions in every fight contribute to character arcs far beyond the fight itself. Consider for example VI’s fight with Sevika in ep5, with her recklessness that nearly kills her, compared to their fight in episode 9, in which Vi ultimately wins by learning to defend herself by blocking (“you’re guard needs work”) showing a broader shift in her character.
Basically, it’s all peak.
D... DID YOU JUST GET THE BLUE COMMENT ON *RUclips!?*
Vi vs Sevika?
@@1_zuyuno jinx vs ekko
@@nore9580 oh ok
The only fight scene (so far) in High School of the Elite was such a disarming and amazingly choreographed moment, it reminded me of the bus fight in Nobody by Bob Odenkirk.
Classroom of the elite had a fight between ayanokoji and the president
yes the one with ryuen, sadly the used up all the budget on that one, even the budget for the next season was used up
@@assarlannerborn9342True
@@assarlannerborn9342clearly they ended up being in debt
Not gonna lie, I have been watching Pey for 3 days now. And his content is just intriguing and will keep on intriguing. I'm like a fish getting hooked up by an interesting hook.
...same here. I've been watching for a bit longer, but these videos are very intriguing and insightful that I can't stop binging.
Just found him and about to start a dive through all the videos. Thank you algorithm gods for once!
The hard thing about the magic system in Demon Slayer…is that there is no magic system. The author has said that there is no magic to the breathing forms, it is only visual. These are normal humans, fighting demons.
I also think that the choreography of Demon Slayer is underrated, but that’s just my opinion.
I think that Demon Slayer has been fundamental to create the popularity of anime in the West.
No, the magic system exists, it’s just that the elements don’t actually exist. Like when zenitsu does a thunderclap and flash, he genuinely moves faster than sound, but no lightning is created
Love to see the shout out for every frame a painting's Jackie Chan video! It's one of my favourite on all of RUclips and changed the way I looked at media
Taylor Ramos, Tony Zhou, Pey and Jackie Chan. What an amazing combination.
Just a heads up, Every Frame a Painting starting posting again a few months ago!
@@kevinknutson4596 Awesome, TY!
4:55 For me personally the thing main thing I look for in a fight is unpredictability, something that I feel most don't ever think about but definitely notice when it's missing. It's that feeling when you see a 2 (or more) characters either preparing for a fight, or taking a breather during a fight, and you realize you don't exactly know how it's gonna play out. Even when you know that the protagonist has to win this fight, you can't possibly imagine how they'd pull it off, what they might loose in the process, or how any external factors may affect the fight.
Jujutsu Kaisen's fight scenes are great examples of this, cause they constantly remind you that at any point things can take a drastic turn and that nothing is garinteed.
The Last Airbender also has many great examples, specially how a simple shift in environment or even time can drastically change the tide of battle.
Of course there are also bad kinds of unpredictable, ranging from fights that feel borderline random to fights that are so stagnant that if you didn't know it had to end you'd probably assume it wouldn't until one side passed out from exhaustion. At the same time though, when I feel like I already have a perfect idea of how a fight is going to play out before it even starts, as I did when I watched Bleach, I find myself quickly get bored of the fight and even get annoyed at any storry elements they try to interject into it to keep it interesting (i.e. the random flashbacks of random characters we'll never see again). Though it definetly has its time and place, such as in a few fights in Frieren where it feels more like you're supposed to know how it's going to play out (as it made it easier to subvert my expectations in later fights), it's honestly what drives me away from most battle anime.
That might be in one of his categories, but unfortunately, pey's explanation is more sparse in this video.
Hunter x Hunter's Meruem vs Netero is also a good example of this. You literally can't even begin to understand how the fight is supposed to play out with the thought that "good guys have to win" and in the end you even start to question "who tf are the good guys" lmao. One of my favorite (if not my favorite) anime fights ever, so I agree to a great extent with you
I think even though Frieren isn't a battle series, it does fights much better than most (especially in its anime). The fights are short and sweet for the most part and involve a lot of story and character developments. It's not just this is cool to see.
@@anosvoldigoat2044 agreed tho I'd Say they don't rely much in choreography (except for some examples) given they are mostly battle of mages
hehe funny speeling mistake
tfw ur browsing your favorite youtuber right as there is a new upload :)
glizzy glizzy glizzy
What's glizzy hands big A doing here?
Just saw the video on google
@@mr_0n10n5pey used to make glizzy glizzy coffee cow songs
This guy has great analysis and commentary videos, peak, pls sub to this man
Just saw a video criticising Friren fightings because it is not often and not that cool apparently. Your video perfectly applies also to fighting scenes in Friren and explained it to people who couldn’t understand them.
the switching between two fights reminds me of the fight on the bridge in arcane, where the switching back and forth brings so much information into the story it's almost overwhelming
I've realized over time that I have begun to value choreography more and more over time, from Avatar the Last Airbender being a massive favorite, to watching CodeNameSuper videos where he breaks down the fast stuff and shows off just how hard the animators were really cooking so we can appreciate it, to watching Fog Hill of Five Elements where the choreography in fights is so unbelievably good across the board that I've watched every fight at least 5 times and just about every reaction to the ImKevinn video over its fights.
Choreography is incredible when done well and I personally have begun to weigh it higher and higher of all the options, but damn do I love good fights in anime/animation.
8:13 tbf demon slayer doesn’t really revolve around a “magic system” besides the demon arts. It’s just swordplay with elemental effects added on top to visualize the breathing
Yeah well I have a hard time telling you this - that's magic and a magic system.
Unless you say this breathing exists.
@@nnnik3595
Come on he said it....
Its just to visualize.
It exist but not produced powerfull magic effects.
Its just you know "BREATHING".
also of the entire cast the only one who seems supernatural is Zenitsu.
Not others whos breath are swordplay.
Zenitsu is a simple draw/unsheathed atk that traverse distance ain a blink.
So Zenitsu is really are to judge weather he is just moving faster that is Humanly possible or he is blinking/dash as shown.
@@twapsgelacio It's breathing which in universe creates magical effects.
It's like calling wizardry handwaving. "It's HANDWAVING not magic you fool"
@@nnnik3595I understand where your confusion comes from.
Demon slayers do not use magic but are actual sword techniques. The traces of the "breathe" in the swords are just a visualization breathe-style of the author. It's their 'artistic interpretation' of the sword techniques.
@@reninantonioyeah and of the day daid breathing gives super human powers - aka magic. The sword styles in demon slayer are just magic. I'm not confused - you are making distinctions when there are none.
It’s amazing how I am always left in awe after watching one of your videos. You take moments that are already amazing and explain them to the point of breathtaking. Keep up the amazing work 🎉
Jesus Christ every single last line of every single video is so damn poetic.
"ill see you next week" is NOT poetic 🤣
@@tspvibin8314 You really took time out of your day to prove a comment wrong, Congrats
If you like this guy, check out every frame a painting. Referenced in this video, and it has overwhelming influenced every video essay after it. The style of this essay follows that old style to a T.
@Sillyestofsilly and you took time out of your day to reply to me. You're SO much better than I am 🤣🫵
@@tspvibin8314 I have all the time in the world lol, I hope you have a wonderful day/night
I had to rewatch parts of this video because I got so immersed in the Toji vs Gojo fight
really awesome video! my recent video essays on fight scenes have prioritized narratives and believability, but i definitely can appreciate the other dimensions you bring up in this video!
i was just binge watching your vids, then i suddenly saw this lol
Just found you today and I already went through two other videos. Great job man keep it up!
Never clicked on a vid faster
What brings me into a fight scene is not simply the plot or good animation but the emotion behind the fight, it's especially why i love the Yuji vs Mahito fights in the Shibuya Arc.
wake up babe, pey just posted a new video
thanks for the upload as always :)
In Demon Slayer, humans don't have magic. The author has said its just sword play, and the animation is in their for effects.
Exactly
Any sufficiently advanced sword play is indistinguishable from magic.
New pov has been acquired amazing vid as usual thank you pey
I would kill for a quinton reviews level of length video of yours, your points, your manner of speaking and your editing are just so dang good
Watch his Kaguya video if you haven't yet. It's from 6 months ago.
@@edgytheedgehog8618 just watched, thanks
I think your 6 are a bit simplistic
Here would be my 6 parameters for judging fights:
-Spectacle (Choreography, directing, animation, art)
-Stakes (What are we fighting over? Are there win conditions outside of just killing the opponent?)
-Ideas/Meaning (What does this fight have to say in the grand narrative of the story? What philosophies do they embody?)
-Push/Pull (How the fight shifts advantage and how unclear it is who will win.)
-Strategy (How much deeper is it than ‘they exchanged blows’)
-Build up (Everything that happens before to make this fight make sense)
Agreed.
It's kinda weird to put something like "Magic System" in general story telling since some stories don't even have magic. And "Viewer Experience" should be all 6 combined and not one of the 6.
@@reaperandyel especially considering the breathing styles in demon slayer are not magic, it is purely visual candy, They are different sword styles, that require different amounts of stamina and strength to pull off with different angles, speeds, points of impact and situational advantages and disadvantages (which is true they do not use these different advantages or disadvantages in matchups but that could also just be because the slayers are dispatched with whoever is available and a lot of the slayers don't have special breathing techniques and just rely on strength, but the hashira are dispatched more specifically probably to their specific strengths and weaknesses, but they don't really address this in the show, so it's still a fair criticism
That's so much worse than the ones pey made lol
@@Brayghost That's just magic genius
@@reaperandyelI think “magic system” is a stand-in for techniques, skills, and in-universe physics. Basically, it’s whatever sets the rules for a fight regarding what is possible and what is practical, as well as what sets each combatant apart both stylistically and strategically, which in turn makes each fight unique and intelligible.
A series that does not define these things has a hard time depicting the flow of battle. Like if you watched a game of speed chess with no understanding of the rules. Or like if you watched an Any% speedrun of a game you have no familiarity with.
This is actually part of why so many mediocre battle anime/manga pause the action to have some character comment on what is happening. Because the world’s physics and the characters’ abilities are too poorly defined for us to understand the significance of anything that’s occurring, and the budget/schedule is too restrictive to provide sufficient visual spectacle to distract us from the fact that we actually have no idea what’s going on.
Pey, you are such a gentleman.
You should watch World Trigger, I think you'll like it, especially once you get to the B-rank Wars.
Such an underrated show
Such good concepts, remarkable characters and smart fights. It has serious problems with the pacing, though. Super good series, anyway.
@@ardidsonriente2223 The pacing is slow but imo it's not problematically slow like One Piece for example. Just about every scene (except for the one filler arc in the anime) serves a purpose in driving the narrative forward in a meaningful way. It just takes a subtler approach to it with more attention to detail.
I totally get how it's not everyone's preference but that really just comes down to taste.
@@sarbe6625 idk, the pacing in season 1 is just pretty damn slow, even outside of possibly anime's worst filler arc (in contention with the last arc of the gantz anime). Season 2 and beyond have solid pacing though and the show really shines there.
I really love that it's like the only show ever that gives us all the characters strategy on all sides before the fight. None of this pulling out a hidden trump card at the last second to make it seem more clever than it was (or at least, not often). It and Ippo are also the only anime i can think of where damage affecting how well you can fight is a thing and taking a bad hit early on can severely affect the remainder of the fight.
He did it !! Someone on RUclips finally showed the depth of "superficial elements" with the colour science etc !!!
Your videos keep getting better.
been watching your channel for a bit, quality is super consistent, will be sticking around
HOLY CRAP, Every Frame A Painting is back!
I would have loved to see other anime, like Soul Eater, be mentioned for choreography. That show is timeless purely because of that.
What I get from this video is, even if the fight doesn't make sense(magic system) it's so cool that people likes it (including me)
Another great example that excels in every aspect imo as I pointed out to someone in the comment section is Meruem vs Netero from HxH. Even the narrator, which has been a point of contention and controversy, plays a great role in the fight.
Nice video as always!
Whoo, there's a lot packed in this one. I hope you make a part 2 of this somehow. I also applaud your courage to criticize Demon Slayer (again). I can't believe I'd never even thought about how lackluster the system in Demon Slayer really is, but, when you go back and look at the likes of Hunter x Hunter and Naruto, it's quite apparent. I could probably criticize those two for how they sometimes fall pretty deeply into exposition since their systems are so elaborate, but it's so fun to think about. Heck, One Piece which has some really weird fights has more depths than Demon Slayer when you think about it. Usopp and Luffy in particular get really creative with the abilities at their disposal.
Personally, there's one thing that a lot of anime seem to fail to do with fights and Demon Slayer is no exception. It's a lack of weight given to the blows characters trade and how injuries are almost abstract. It's something that One Punch Man, Attack on Titan, and even Bleach actually do incredibly well compared to a lot of other anime. You can feel the punches, feel the fatigue setting in, feel the pressure of being wounded and trying to compensate. In Demon Slayer, you mostly get a starkly static scene of Tanjiro mentally listing injuries while he visually just pushes on through. I suppose it could be some form of attempt at preaching resilience and such, but I feel like it takes away from what should be the height of visual storytelling.
I haven’t watched demon slayer but after seeing these clips of it i want to watch it now 😅
I’d say go for it! It’s pretty enjoyable.
Worth the watch for the beautiful animation, and Inosuke
I watched it when it was still not popular. it was overshadowed by a Popular anime I think.
It is actually good for the THEME they are showing.
It is like you don't go to a math class to learn about english.
One of the few anime you will not be embarrassed watching with your family.
7:22 CAPTAIN MACK 🐐🐐🐐
A good fight scene to me is always about movement and choreography. I don't want excessive blurred punches and blinding lights that drown blurred out the animations and impacts.
Dunno, but get the feeling that Demon slayer appeals to a younger audience now than it did at the start of season 1. Characters are (mostly) loud and annoying, looking at you Zenitsu, though the fights are pretty enough to be an effective sales pitch. The plot armour can feel pretty heavy at times, but oh look they killed some rando dude on the train movie thingie. I imagine most ppl watch the series to enjoy the pretty colours, or simply to see what Inosuke is getting up to.
I watch it for
1-the easy to love and understand characters (tengen, inosuke, rengoku, and akaza)
2-the simple power system that doesn’t break it self and keeps it simple at all times
3-lets you just see the characters chill at times and not always fighting.
Not to mention the fanbase is… normal…
@@dragergrapThe fanbase is not normal.
It’s on Attack On Titans level if you have been on the internet long enough.
@@Mia-nk1kg never say that ever again
@@dragergrap I’m not lying. The fandom was so bad (it calmed down a bit)
@@Mia-nk1kg oh, well luckily I never saw that. AOT, KNY fandom sound horrible
I think the central question that any fight scene needs to answer in its own way is, "why does this matter?" The fight itself then presents its actual argument visually as an answer to this question. The reception to any given fight scene will almost always be tied to how much the scene got us to care about what was happening on screen. The components of fight scenes talked about in a video like this one are essentially tools in the creators' toolbox and the tools they go about using to craft the scene can be utilized fully or not as much depending on what the creators' wish for the viewers to be drawn to. The fight scene in question can still be amazing even if the creators chose to not place emphasis on every tool they had at their disposal. Sometimes if you try to utilize a tool that you don't have mastery over, you can ruin the overall product by forcing yourself to include something that if utilized effectively could have added greater depth but simply wasn't.
To give a picture of what I am talking about, a person can build a birdhouse with wood, nails, a saw, and a hammer. They can use these tools to craft an excellent birdhouse that serves its function well. Another person could build another great birdhouse, but also make use of a power saw, paint, screws, and wood glue. The birdhouse could end up just as great and just as functional even if there were a greater variety of tools utilized to create it. What you don't want to do is sloppily use a tool you aren't confident will help you build the birdhouse you wish to create just because you think it might add another dimension to the house if by doing so you compromise the house's overall integrity.
That's the way I view a fight scene. A min maxed fight scene can often times be far better than a more well rounded fight scene that doesn't execute on every component to the same extent that the min maxed scene does on its one or two elements of focus. Theoretically if you could execute on every component at a 10/10 level then you might be able to surpass the min maxed fight scene, but I would argue the more components you seek to utilize in constructing any given scene the harder it is to give each of those components the level of focus needed to execute on them all at a 10/10 level. All of this is before even getting to the idea that different people will often care/place higher emphasis on one component of a fight scene than another (a 9/10 Viewer Experience could matter more to any individual person than a 9/10 in Directing).
If you haven't seen it, I'd highly recommend you watch Sword of the Stranger. IMO, it still has the best fight in anime and the animation is Nakamura Yutaka's best work to date.
Obito vs. Kakashi is the first fight I think of when it comes to great choreography and character plot, really glad you talked about it. One of the best fights to showcase that not everything needs to be flashy, and clean choreo between two connected characters with some clever tricks in between, like using your opponents hands for hand signs, can outshine any amount of bright lights.
The jjk prequel (among many others) showed that a fight scene doesn't need to be drawn out or world shattering to be great
The final fight of the movie Sword of the Stranger, I think, hits all of these same points to the same level
Your video reminded me of "Teddy Slumps" video in how Frieren Journey's End has some of the best fights not just because they were flashy, but because they were perfect ways to conclude what the show has been building up to for a character. (Take Stark's first introduction and conclude it with his fight with the dragon)
incredible video
one of the strengths of JJK is its power system. it's not always about who is stronger but which kit at certain scenario will work better. a lot of fights are like rock, paper and scissor scenario if you throw the right move you have a chance of winning.
Everybody be sleeping on the fight scenes in Link Click (Chinese anime/donghua) though. And on the anime in general. Theres not really a combative magic system to fall back on, it's just pure hand to hand martial arts combat and I'm so here for it because my gosh the choreographies and animation go hard
Man look castlevania scenography from end of season 2, 3, 4, this is level leyond avatar legend of aang
in my opinion best fights in pop culture history
Castlevania is one of my favorite animations of all time, but at times it has incredibly poor looking animation and composition which is super jarring to me. It's like there's a tiny piece of poop in a bag full of chocolate. It's honestly WEIRD that the animators are like "95% of this looks absolutely awesome, so let's put in a few seconds that look awful"
Kakashi vs Obito is my fav fight from Naruto such a amazing fight that uses flashback in the correct way to enhance the fight compared to stuff like BNH or Kimetsu
Very well made video but I do have some disagreements. I don't personally like Demon Slayer but I think Captain Macks video about the series is very flawed and made some really terrible points and lot of those points can be easily disproven if you just watch the series more carefully. For one, "Breathing style" do have their difference between them and Tanjiro does face problems for using certain style at certain times. For one , Tanjiro runs out of stamina for using breathing techniques that really doesn't suit his body so he has change his breathing style. I can go more deep into it but if no one is interested, no point in writing an essay explaining DS breathing style. But if someone is , I am more than willing to elaborate.
Edit: For some reason , RUclips isn't letting me reply so let's try editing this comment
First I would like to point some of the issues I have with Captain Macks video. I think It's poorly researched. He makes some point that can easily be disproven. For example, he said the anime never explains why the Nichirin Swords can kill Demon's while literally showing a scene from the anime where the characters were explaining why Nichirin Swords can kill Demon's. He says it's not unclear if Water comes out Tanjiro's sword or not and even after researching he couldn't find an exact answer to it . It literally took me a single google search to find a manga panel literally explaining if Tanjiro or any other characters summon elements from their sword or not. So I don't know what research Captain Mack did. Captain Mack also harps on the fact there's multiple ways to breath . I don't understand why he has a problem with that considering in real life there's multiple ways to breath as well. Like Military and diver's use different breathing techniques depending on the situation. Demon Slayer just exaggerates it cuz it's an anime . It's not going to be 100% accurate to real life because it's fiction and it's not something that came out of nowhere because there is real life examples of it. But none of this points to me were as bad as his point about Demon Slayer being misogynistic. This point felt very malicious and disingenuous . One of the reasons Captain Mack gave for Demon Slayer is misogynistic was the fact Shinobu was the only Hashira to be too weak to kill a Demon on her own. So she relies on poison. I find this very stupid. I would have seen Captain Macks point if Shinobu was in universe considered weak by other Hashira's but that's not the case. She is both taken seriously by other characters and the story itself. Also , Shinobu is a character who uses her intellect to overcome her physical shortcomings which I find more empowering rather than misogynistic. She is similar to Mulan from the animated film where she did similar thing's . Another thing why Captain Macks misogynistic point was so stupid is considering one of the most physically strong Hashira is also a woman and there are male characters who are even too weak to go to Demon Slayer trials or have bodies that make it pretty much impossible for them to use breathing style. Sorry for the rant but his misogynistic claims genuinely pisses me off because it just feels so disingenuous . But if I am being totally fair , there are some points in the Captain Mack video that I do kind of agree with but for me, his video overall wasn't very well made.
Now let me clear up something. I don't like Demon Slayer. I pretty much dropped it after s2 but currently watching it again cuz I can't find anything better to watch. My main gripes with the series are the fact how annoying and boring the main characters are. Although there are few good side characters but they are not enough for me to really care much about Demon Slayer because they usually have very little presence in the story and don't get much screen time. It's one of the primary reasons why I also don't like the fights that much. It really hard for me care about the fights if I don't care about the characters and Demon Slayer fights usually aren't that great thematically. Like I love Gaara vs Rock Lee is . It's because Rock Lee is an amazing character and the theme of how even if hard work can't beat talent but it can narrow down the gap is something that truly resonated with me . Demon Slayer didn't have any amazing fights like that. I still enjoy them , even if they look like epileptic kids biggest nightmare, they're still beautiful to watch .I do agree with almost everything Pey said in this video . However I don't personally think breathing styles are all same. Lot of people say "Breathing style" is a bad power system and I disagree with that. Now breathing style as a power system isn't very deep. When I mentioned how Tanjiro runs out of stamina, I wasn't really trying to say Demon Slayer power system is deep but more so trying to disprove the point captain mack made about how Tanjiro being a water breathing style user doesn't negatively impact him. Now Demon Slayer's power isn't deep or really detailed like JJK or HxH but I don't think it needs to be. Simple power system isn't a bad one. Now why I don't think all breathing styles are the same is because they have their own advantages. For example, Insect breathing Poison's demon while thunder breathing is extremely fast . They have their similarities because in universe speaking and all of these breathing styles are supposed to be imitation of the original one (sun breathing) which can also help explain why it was easy for Tanjiro to grasp sun breathing because every breathing is connected to Sun breathing and I still think they have enough differences between them . Another thing why I personally don't have a problem with the power system of Demon Slayer is because character's have unique weapon's that usually make the characters have unique fighting style which helps not making the fight not stale . Another thing I like about breathing style is that character's breathing style also reflects the characters characteristic. It's not as well done as HxH or Gojo's power from JJK but it's good enough for me give some extra points to breathing style.
Sorry for the bad English btw . I am not a native English speaker and currently learning the language.
I'm curious to see you elaborate. I personally think Pey and Mack make good points about Demon Slayer. I'd go even further as to say that major segments of the fights feel like they lack punch. The combatants trade blows yet it doesn't seem to affect the fights until they reach some kind of arbitrary turning point. I especially despise how Tanjiro often lists his injuries verbally/mentally but doesn't move or act differently. It's supposed to be the peak of visual storytelling yet they interrupt the action and try to artificially up the stakes instead of actually showing the effects of those injuries.
Your point in terms of Tanjiro switching styles also falls short imo. Those styles are still functionally the same, but not having the right colour scheme is suboptimal so Tanjiro has to switch. I guess it's more depth than nothing, but it's still incredibly shallow. I raise you this: Tanjiro initially had zero clue about sun breathing and we got an attempt at an arc for him to learn about it, but instead the author decided that he remembers his father dancing and therefore is suddenly able to somehow learn sun breathing. Why did we need to rush through this? We even basically skipped through Tanjiro first learning water breathing. I can only conclude that the author did not want to spend the time making the system interesting.
So, what is everyone missing here?
HOLY SHIT post this somewhere other than a youtube comment section cause it's huge asf
So, I just saw your edit... this took a sharp turn and I'm definitely not going to address everything.
Anyway, to be fair, some of the breathing styles are reasonably different from the others, but we got almost as many breathing styles as we got characters and yet there's only like 3 that are more clearly distinct from the others. They're represented differently and they reflect a character's style, but functionally it's almost entirely just a colour scheme. Like "Love Breathing" has very little to do with love or breathing, but she uses a weird whip sword which is fundamentally different from the typical sword... but it also does nothing significantly different than, you know, slashing.
Tanjiro having to switch is barely a speed bump and all his learning is essentially off-screened. All we get are physical training montages and some strange breathing exercises. Sure, sun breathing kinda burns them and water breathing doesn't, but there isn't really anything to it. It doesn't really affect match-ups.
So yeah, the system isn't bad, it doesn't really contradict itself or anything of the sort... but it's not really interesting to think about. It's abstract stuff about breathing and effectively just them doing anime things with swords and colours. By comparison, Naruto has interesting interactions between the different elements, HxH is almost a full video game concept, JJK has significant match-up interactions, etc.
Bottom line, I think it's fair to say it falls short.
They want demon slayer to be the avatar last air bender lol. They are disappointed that the fire and water is not real.
people keep comparing anime so they cannot enjoy what they are currently watching.
Pey Talks. I listen
Thank You, I always saw the Hidden Inventory Arc as pure cinematic mastery but really didn't look at Demon Slayer properly because I always had it down as one of the better anime of the 2020s but you really raised some good points. The build up "hype' threw excellent build up and fan service but the fight scenes aren't really that good and honestly short of training i haven't seen real sword technique plus they often go for "flashy' character design over something memorable but just as useful in real combat. (btw i was not feelin Mitsuri Kanrobi's overall design and weapon, it never really made sense to me. they might have gone too far with that one)
I feel like you didn't explain your categories well enough. I don't know how to evaluate them. For example, with my preferences; if I get bored by fights that have higher stakes than the story would allow the hero to lose, is that plot or hype or something else? If I like fights that say something about a character, but don't really impact the plot, like Yoda vs doku showing that Yoda is purely spiritual in his fighting style while every other character I had seen were more physical in theirs, is that an expansion on plot, is it purely choreography or something else.
You clearly have a well thought out theory, but unlike your other videos, I can't really get my head around it.
I'd imagine they both fall into plot by his system but I too am not fully on board with his layout. I'd probably put like tension, strategy, logical consistency, characterization, visuals/cinematography, and choreography.
If the main character can't afford to lose for sake of the plot, it has no tension. A fights outcome is pretty basic in how it affects the plot (either bad guy was stopped, or they weren't) but very impactful when it comes to characterization. Like demon slayer's sword styles are about characterization for the most part, instead of strategy. The honest straightforward guy has bright fire, the adaptable balanced main character has flowing water until it changes to righteous fire. The sound guy is clever and flashy. The boar head guy is beastly. The zenitsu is... he just sucks. Because all these styles accomplish the same objective, the path the characters took to get there is able to characterize them (somewhat).
Rock Lee vs Gaara is still my favorite fight. Also the final fight in One Punch Man season 1, just for the visuals.
2:37 demon slayer actually has crazy good choreography
S1 tanjiro vs inosuke hand to hand was amazing amazing
I don't know how to explain it, but the flashback scene of JJK is the best when it comes to emotions and fight scenes. All of JJK is "just fine" for me, but that flashback arc was great.
Mikazuki/Barbatos Lupus vs Hashmael lives rent free in my head. I'm practically calling haters in at this point but that fight (and a lot of ibo actually) has a phenomenal level of enemies observing each other and adapting to each other without a word of dialogue from a third party or narrator explaining each attack. And while I do think jjk's toji vs gojo round one is a better fight in terms of animation and story telling, it does fall into the trope of the winning move/plan being explained completely to the viewer verbally.
I think midoriya vs shoto in season 2 of mha is also a fight that excels in all of the categories you mentioned
I would just like to add something to Demon Slayers "magic" system. I would personally not really call it a magic system, it is visually similar to that of Chakra, Nen, Cursed Energy and etc. But it is not at all that. Demon arts are like magic, but breathing techniques are more like martial arts with slight variations of one another. I don't remember where, but it was stated somewhere that the effects of water, fire and all that we see on screen isn't visible inside of the universe the characters are in, it's just to make it nicer to look at and easier to see the difference of in our (the viewers) eyes. There is a bit of spice in these martial arts with sun breathing and the facial marks that are introduced overall, but in general breathing techniques are just ways of Demon Slayers becoming close to superhuman and beyond to compete with the actual demons. In summary, I feel like it's just normal swordplay exaggerated inside of fiction without much more to add. That's why there aren't type matchups, only skill gaps.
At least that's how I see it and certainly have more respect for it than I would if I compared it directly to the aforementioned magic systems.
If you think in this way about it than yes, it makes more sense, but this is not how it is presented or maybe it tried and failed spectacularly;
I also think that there are significant differences between how different breathing styles are presented, so it "sounds" imo that there are better and worse matchups based only on breathing technics;
also sun breathing fire and heat is REAL, it literally burned Muzan when Yoriichi attacked him hundreds of years ago and to be fair it still hurts him
The sword styles accomplishing the same thing is fine, because each fighter took a different path (breathing style) to reach the same goal. That characterizes them (to some degree anyway, i don't think demon slayer is a masterpiece or anything).
There are significant differences between the breathing styles, for instance water is more defensive than fire and beast breathing includes detection skills. And that is really what they are, skills. As for how they have certain effects on demons, like burning them, that is because of the metal that is essentially kryptonite to demons. Otherwise they just cut, parry, slash, and stab like any other sword (not that I know much about swords haha).
Please do an in depth analysis of gojo vs toji and the overall affect they had on the world and characters of the jjk verse
The gojo glaze is crazy
Welp that does it I’m rewatching JJK season 2 😊
when i watched toji vs gojo round 2 high off my ass, i legit cried
Once I got over the absolute stunning visuals of DemonSlayer, I quit watching it, because it felt incredibly hollow.
Should have mentioned symbiotic spider-man vs the sinister six. I know this video is about animanga but the fight is so good it deserves to be mentioned
I kind of hate the "two characters are so fast that they turn into two streaks of light twirling around each other" and "flurry of blows" stuff thing that a bunch of shows do. I think I more or less lost interest in the Demon Slayer fights after the first season. They're completely spectacle to me at this point. I'll watch them I suppose, they're still pretty, but they don't move me much more than that.
I definitely value choreography a lot and I think like you said, that's arguably the best way to make a scene timeless. The Zhao vs Zuko fight is possibly the worst fight in ATLA, and yet because they have this one really neat move that we see from Zuko to flip the tables, it sticks with me. It's just such a cool motion. One great strength of the fights in Avatar comes from different people having different bending styles and the motions that people make just gets ingrained into your brain when things hit right. You see a silhouette and you just know that it's a waterbender, or a firebender, etc. I think that's also why I barely remember specific fights from Korra. It does of course make sense that by the time of Korra people have streamlined bending to be less expressive with the motions and you get far fewer of the grand sweeping movements since it's all been traded for efficiency and precision, but the problem is that it also just doesn't look as cool in my opinion. At least half a dozen different characters do the same overhead kick and I really couldn't tell you whether it's a firebending move, a waterbending move, or an airbending move. Hell, I'm sure an earthbender does it too at some point.
I really don't get the hype around Gojo vs Toji. Don't get me wrong, it's well animated, but the story is so mediocre...
When I first read the chapters I thought to myself that this flashback would explain something important about the plot or the characters, but it doesn't really do anything of the sort. Gojo doesn't really change as a result of what happens aside from unlocking his full power, which is fine in and of itself, but it adds nothing to the greater narrative. Geto does change, but that's mainly due to an exchange between him and Yuki afterwards, which ultimately doesn't even really matter because we find out that Geto has nothing to do what's happening in the story at this point so the whole flashback seems completely redundant. I guess it sets up Toji to some extent, but it's weird because the whole point is how strong he is, but then he loses to Gojo so you have no real feel of his power level when he returns.
To be fair Toji does beat Gojo the first time around, but we know Gojo can't die because it's a flashback so my only thought was "how is the writer going to bullshit his way out of this one?" It turns out that Gojo returns to no one surprise, and I can't help but feel that he only "died" to just underline once again how broken he is. And I'm sorry, but this is where I checked out mentally, because if the only reason for your story-beats is to yet again try to convince me a character is powerful, then they just end up feeling like a construct. Gojo isn't powerful because his power has interesting and well established powers with strengths and drawback that has to be utilized and overcome, he is powerful because the writer said so. =3
I might have just completely misunderstood the point of this part of the story, but I was so confused when I read it. It kept thinking, "why put this in the story, why does this matter, what impact does it have on future events?" and I have no answer, it seems utterly pointless to me... XD
(rant about ATAL cause its my fav show... unless DS beats it with its finale ) 4:20 yeah i fully agree on that ATLA fight, avatar just balances so many of its fights, and a big part of the show is its teaching of "balance" so it makes sense :)
of all the shows i enjoyed AOTs Fights scenes the most
demon slayer is like that story you created when you are still young that dreamed to be a mangaka.
things doesn't really make sense coz you are young and naive. you write a story base from hype and you didn't really think about other things.
Fate appocrypha actually has one of my favorite finale fight of every anime. They really showed what would happens if either side win and both the main protagonist and villain has their own goal and character. Most bad fights are usually about characters trying to win their opponent but not what's behind. In KmY ss1, the 2 best fight are both Tanjiro trying to protect his sister so he really have a goal. But fights like one with the drum demon is just straight up a "I want to win" fight which is much less exciting.
In my opinion, Demon Slayer gets a 9.5 in viewer experience, 9 in hype, 8 in choreography, 9.5 in character & plot, 8 at directing and about 3 at magic systems (they are generally good, but there are a LOT of *sspulls). I don't know about you guys, but Demon Slayer is definitely good at writing characters in a fight scene, because in my opinion, the best aspect of Demon Slayer's fight scenes are its emotional content (HOT TAKE: My best part in S2E10 wasn't Tengen vs Gyutaro, it was mostly Tanjiro's snowy dream & when he empathizes with Gyutaro), the fights barely give me hype but since this is more of an objective parameter (and people seemed to be hyped), I gave it a really high score. But a lot of people (including me) has felt really emotional in some of its fights, which are carried out by characters.
Demon slayer fights are super flashy but not necessarily ‘good’. Jjk has always had the most perfect choreographed fight scenes for me
I like to rewatch Zenitsu's thunder clap and flash, but I am aware that part of the reason is that its made of "cool shit is about to happen, so pay attention." It's like if you distill everything you love about shounen battle anime into its purest form. Star defeating Toffee in Star Vs the Forces of Evil is another example of this, but for magical girls. I call it "The Goods".
Side note- something I like about Frierun's fight scenes is that they are fairly short and decisive because all the combatants are very skilled, so the fights are won in about 3 or 4 moves.
3rd note, but circling back to demon slayer- the breathing styles seem to pull alot from Japanese swordsmanship ; which I'm not an expert on (just to manage expectations) Zenitsu's Thunderclap and slash attack is specifically a sword drawing technique, known as battojutsu (which I know from Rurouni Kenshin, another series that really loves its swordfights). So those 3 attacks most likely look similar because they are based on a similar technique, in this case, creating some distance with your opponent.
Yes
Demon slayer has no "magic system" for their swords. The waterbreathing, fire breathing, etc. are styles of fighting and the effects are visualizations of the styles being used. It is better to show the viewer that Tanjiro uses waterbreathing than it is to constantly remind you by way of speech or text. Only the demons have a magic system, so we have normal humans versus demons, albeit humans that have made themselves so physically fit that they can match against them with swords made from their weakness.
Imo Demon slayer fight scenes are just fate stay night fights (particulate unlimted budget works i mean unlimited blade works) but mild.
I think I appreciate Demon Slayer fights because there's no practical difference in styles. Each, at their pinnacle, should be equally proficient at dispatching demons. Having them have good or bad match ups introduces an element of uncertainty that, in universe, is too dangerous to survive. I understand that, from a story perspective, it all turns into window dressing. But, my viewpoint when watching anything is to try to react and understand the media as if I exist in it. If it'd make logical sense to me, were I a resident of that story, I can accept it.
Yeah how could you have a functional sword style without an AoE attack in their line of work?
Im surprised you didn't mention JJBA or Castlevania
what if we made an anime with no fighting, would it even be possible?
Ofcourse... Don't you watch different genres of anime?
I think if you want to look at really good fight scenes in anime tgat are a bit outside the box of what people might think you should look at Pokemon XYZ, the choreography and animation is extremely well produced
Hello, first of all, I hope everyone in your family is doing great. Now, I want to say that you are one of the RUclipsrs who has been growing a lot recently, and as a true well-wisher, I just wanted to say: keep the quality over quantity approach. This might come out of nowhere, but there may come a time when your views aren’t as high as they are now. When that happens, just keep pushing forward because, personally, I love watching your videos and hearing your voice (okay, that part might sound a bit sus). I hope this message reaches you well!
TL;DR: Keep up the magnificent work, and may the anime gods bless you :)
I'm not ashamed to admit it, but impact frames are like 80% of what makes an anime fight good to me. I don't know what it is, but that shit just tickles my brain. One Punch Man is a great example, and Kaiju No. 8 was nice as well.
EDIT: I also am most likely an idiot, but I don't get JJK animation hype at all. Honestly at the end of season 2 I was getting pissed because I had to rewind so many times because I could not understand what the fuck I was even watching. Hard to enjoy a fight when I don't know who's where and what's happening. I heard the blu-ray version fixed the fights to be more coherent. Might have to give it a chance one day. Otherwise it's a very nice looking anime.
I guess I have to watch JJK S2 now so I can finish this RUclips video.
Yoo have you considered channel memberships?
Could you do a comparison with jujutsu kaisen and chainsaw man? I feel chainsaw is better and it's not even close but find it hard to justify the opinion
No spoilers but have you read both series up until recently? I personally think both fall off pretty hard, but I think both had amazing first seasons. JJK season 2 is also pretty good imo, though I think it's worse than season 1 in some ways. Chainsaw man has a brilliant start, but Fujimoto had to be true to himself and double down on the weirdness...
I don't agree but it's kind of hard to compare IMO because they set out to be different kinds of stories. Both anime are pretty fantastic though. I really liked the episode of chainsawman dedicated to the sense of loss after the big attack on all the main characters. However I also really like Yuji's mini character arc about killing another person. I feel like it's the first time I've seen it handled well and with nuance in a shonen. No melodramatic screaming, no completely writing it off. I really think the writing and directing of both shows is up near the top of modern anime. This is all as an anime only.
So, you finished "exploring Frieren"?
Nah just had some food ideas I wanted to explore! Though for sure the channel will be a mix of frieren and other content from here on out
@@PeyTalksAnime Given that Season 2 was recently announced, you can probably keep making Frieren videos for the foreseeable future.
Though, the exact release date is unknown. More experienced anitubers, seem to predict between 1 to 2 years from now.
To me, Ufotable is better animation studio than Mappa, but for some reason Ufotable for the most part only animates mid anime. Like demon slayer is fine, but the plot and characters just are not as interesting as something like JJK, giving the animators less to work with.
Best fight scene for me are the fight scenes from Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash.
HEY THE DEMON SLAYER BREATHING STYLES ARE COOL... wait what do you mean the effects aren't actually there
How can you not mention High School of the Elite(season 1 kiyotaka vs whole group) fight. I personally rate that fight/storytelling parallel to unforgettable fights of Sword of the stranger!
A lot of the people you reference for your videos (or people that inspire you to make videos) use inference. I can’t infer really, so whenever I watch a video, I rely straightforward telling. I really appreciate that your videos that always explain things really well so I don’t feel like I didn’t get your message. Do you know how one could create a good story, even if you don’t know how to do inference or know how it works? Thanks for reading if you do, or just making this video Pey.
Fate zero had some of the best choreography in my opinion
Me personally, Season 2s fight scenes are in a league of their own, in terms of Demon Slayer. Easily some of the most enjoyable fights that that year offered. s3 didn't live up to the bar that S2 set, for me.
And DS doesn't have magic system tho , these arts are there for viewers. They themselves are just swordsmen that don't see those affects. They have different sword style , so having a common type of slash attack is okay
I mean, when making a fighting style to fight against potentially many demons or projectiles, who make their style NOT had some kind of AoE? You would just be asking to get killed.
@AWanderingSwordsman it is just like adding effects to differentiate different sword techniques
Capoeira - air bending
Muay Thai - Fire Bending
Drunken Kung-fu = Waterbending
Just imagine it like that. or WATCH Rurouni Kenshin