Are Modern Controls DEAD in Street Fighter 6? (ft. jmcrofts)
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- When Street Fighter 6 first became playable, Modern Controls were the hot topic for the longest time. It's become a pioneer in accessibility, but had shown flaws in how it could've been taken advantage of for certain characters, resulting in lots of people discussing whether or not they should even be allowed in the first place. But as time passed and the meta developed, we just don't seem to hear much about this control scheme anymore. Kizzie Kay and jmcrofts talk about Modern Controls in 2024 and what might happen next.
Comment below if you think Modern Controls should be banned or not!
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Modern has been the best thing since sliced bread for me. My 11 year old daughter grinds ranked on sf6. She recently made it to plat after starting in iron months ago. Also been asking me to go back and check out some of the older entries. And she will be like "how do I do this move?" I tell her well, you have to make this motion then hit a button. At first it turned her off. But more and more she puts a bit of practice into classic controls via the older games or sometimes in practice mode in 6.
They done such a good job helping get my youngun into the fighting games. And helped give me a sparring partner.
🔥
She be beating you in no time.
That's so cool... your 11 year old daughter is better at fighting games than me! I'm only gold at the moment, but if she can do it then I think I might be able to as well :D
@@lara6489 You can definitely do it! You just gotta have patience and a learning mindset. If you focus more on learning than winning you'll start seeing your rank go up without even trying. It might lead to short term losses, but in the long term you'll be hella proud of yourself. Good luck!
I think Modern hit the mark for what it was meant to be, which was to help get new players into the game.
I think it's one reason (of many) why Tekken is also easy to get into, no motion inputs outside of some double taps.
i dont think the high level scene was ever going to adopt modern controls as a whole, but plenty of my friends play using modern and they're hitting decent ranks and enjoying the game. its fantastic
Can confirm, same experience here. Me and a couple friends messed around with SF 4 and 5 for a couple of hours and either dropped or refund it. I have 200 hours in SF6 thanks to modern controls.
I have 30 min to an hour max per day, during weekdays to play. I'm spending that time practicing knowing that I don't need to worry that much about combos, but I should focus on fundamentals. SF6 is the first fighting game that I have more than 20h on, and modern controls are the main reason.
Same here
Same. I barely have time due to my job and modern is keeping me invested in the game now, especially that Akuma is in game now. This is my first FG and I'm in it because I think Akuma is cool af.
That’s good bro! You still at it? I understand the appeal. I personally like the satisfaction of getting progressively better with classic but it’s great that people like you are engaged with the community too.
@@BobbyJenko I'm not playing as often as I used to, but I'll do some practice and then play a few matches during weekends. I even got a stick! Honestly, I would have stopped playing long time ago, like I did with SF4 and Tekken 7, if it wasn't for modern controls.
Dude gets jumped in on --> Opens M Menu 😆
modern players made EVO and capcom cup, seems viable with downfalls...simple as that
Way more Modern players than Jamie players.
@@juice6521 a shame, he's top 3 most fun but needs buffs
@@Ness315nah he's good
@@vasilykiselev6285 I like him but he's difficult for me to main, esp with the matchup spread
That is true, I get myself mixed every time when doing classic combos, modern just helps me reduce that stress a lot, I'd say it's worth the lower damage.
I really like Brian_F’s take on this: If anyone is going to prove that modern controls are every bit as viable as classic, it’s gonna be someone whose very first traditional 2D fighting game is SF6.
And that doesn’t sound like a year 1 thing to me. That’s something I would say sounds a lot more like year 2, where any extremely talented newcomers (or maybe veterans imported from platform fighters or something) have actually accumulated enough experience to seriously contend with the already-established best players in the world.
It… it was Brian who said this, right? Or maybe it was Sajam?? Oh god, I’m not even doing the meme, I seriously can’t remember which one of them was talking about this. I’m pretty sure it was one of them. I don’t think it was Jiyuna. It was recent. 🤣
It was jiyuna he saved street fighter 6
Uh how about all top players using modern before? Shuto haitaini, tachikawa, among many others
I think modern is doing exactly what Capcom intended. Bring more new players in (myself) while balancing it against the existing control scheme. I don't think it needs a nerf or a buff.
It needs some tweaks imo. The auto combos are practically worthless and they pretty much don’t need to be a thing.
@@johkerx9107I think the auto combos are good enough for the target audience. If they made the auto combos too optimal there'd be too much reward for pressing the same button
Buff the damage, nerf the supers.
@@lolozo214 the auto combos will never be optimal so I’d rather them just be gone.
I was new to the game I used Normal controls it ain't thay hard to learn there is a reason for training mode also having to relearn a character from learning modern controls to normal yeah nah just go to normal controls.
I think it’s fair to have modern controls because no matter how easy it is for them to do certain moves now, they still have to learn where and when to use it and how to handle defending themselves, as was mentioned parrying works the same for everyone in Sf6
Footsies and fundamentals are king, no matter what fighting game you play
Only having access to 3 crouch normals in Modern is really frustrating. If they made the assist button work for crouch normals, it would fix a lot of the problems with Modern.
I want it to work in the air too
After playing the game for 3 months straight after launch. A strategy is to go on full offence when the modern player has 0 super meter and to do lots of safe jumps.
Depends on the character your opponent is using..someone tried that on me but the character I was using at the time had a lot of anti airs and safe throws
What rank are you
@@ledgy69 I reached Master with Rashid . User Name is Mr_Veteran not joking
@@ledgy69 Master . My cfn is Mr_Veteran
@@ledgy69 Master my cfn is Mr_veteran
If the game is well designed for simple inputs from the beggining, there is nothing to discuss. Motion inputs are not a requirement for a good fighting game, they are just a design choice.
Granblue Rising shoudn't have had the "old school" moves added. The game doesn't need them, it is already well balanced around the simple inputs.
Motion inputs works well for the games that have them fully integrated in their core, forcing them into a game that wasn't designed for them is a bad design decision, a gimmick justified only for making stubborn old school players feel less obsolete.
Every game is different. SF is a bit more technical than GB in its inputs. GB has cooldowns as well, which make a ton of difference.
You can play Simple but still do Technical inputs in the same match to get more damage.
That means that going Simple Controls isnt as much of an issue. Keep in mind Technical are 10% power difference when you cancel & there are certain moves that scale/link better.
That said i use Simple in GB most of the time, because GB is a fast game & the 10% percent penalty isnt severe enough (and it only applies on certain scenarios).
However this would be a major problem in SF6, its a slower game, this is why the Modern Control characters are limited in many ways.
That would ruin sf more then it already is, exactly why modern controls are bad, cause now peoples like you will demand only modern controls stay in your lane and play your anime fighters
I’m older and have limited time. Modern controls are the only reason I still play this game.
For reals? How old? Because as a 30 year old and limited time as well I use normal controls. How hard is it to us quarter circle for a haduken.
hes probably 55 years old and runs a corporation and only has time for maybe 30 minutes of fighting games a day
@@hotdog592742…I run an LLC that consists of a wife and 2 kids.
@@hotdog5927I’m 42 and run a LLC that consists of a wife and two young kids.
Bro so ur 42 and SF6 is your first street fighter?
The vibe between Kizzie and JM is so fantastic, love their energy
I watched Bafel give his feedback on Modern controls, and said that the effort to optimize modern controls was just as labor entensive as optimizing classic.
He also seemed say that transitioning to modern to classic wasn't as easy as one might think since there is whole bunch of muscle memory involved.
He also seemed to agree that what is missing in modern is a major set back competitively as you go up the competitive ladder.
I never really played fighting games online until SF6 and modern definitely helped me learn. I’m still using it though now almost exclusively for one button SA’s and the occasional DP for something that would be harder to catch like a Blanka ball or a dragonlash
Eventually I started to learn about frame data, hitboxes what is and isn’t safe, spacing and all those wacky FGC terms like Okizeme
Even made it to master with modern having started at iron 1
I can definitely see it’s weaknesses now and they absolutely should have them but I love what they are and hope they still make the occasional showing
They need to add a few frames of delay on the one button moves to make them more balanced with people doing normal inputs
I was new to the game I used Normal controls it ain't thay hard to learn there is a reason for training mode also having to relearn a character from learning modern controls to normal yeah nah just go to normal controls.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the big Super Street Fighter 6 update had Modern Controls and Classic Controls even more defined as their own systems like the ISMs in Alpha 3 and the Grooves in Capcom vs SNK 1 and 2.
I started with classic controls day one and made it to platinum one with juri then made the switch to modern after taking some time off and ended up in Masters with Juri
Thank you for bringing this up! IMO the narrative that Modern controls is just for new players or players that haven't played a lot of fighting games is pretty weak. You can still do motion inputs in Modern and the best Modern players are integrating both depending on the situation and the set-up. It's really just a different way to play the game and if it feels better to you then you should go for it. I think what unfortunately poses the biggest problem for Modern is the fact that the devs are deciding how good Modern is for each character based on what they lose from classic and how their auto-combo routes are structured. Why do some characters lose their overheads in Modern but others don't? Why do some characters seem to have less meter heavy auto-combo routes than others? To me it feels like the you can see Modern evolving as more DLC characters come out but the launch characters are pretty bland in most instances for Modern.
No one said it was ONLY for new players. But for sure helps new players, tell a guy that never played a fighting game in his life to DP on reaction and he'll probably give up. Tell him to do ➡️Special and he'll stick around and see that doing a DP ain't that hard eventually
I think having some kind of backburner "combo development kit" (like Combo Cards, or a "if meter then X else do Y") for players to design and execute their *own* auto-combos would make for a much more cool experience for the Modern Controls player - like you have your optimal and situational combos on tap, the way Modern Players do with their own muscle memory and expression... if you watch a solid 3S top 8, you'll see at least 5 Kens/Chuns - but if you're paying attention to who's piloting whom, you can see how their offensive execution differs from player to player.
Each character having a gameplan is not the same as each PLAYER having a gameplan; and the latter of this is what you see mattering in competitions. Offense controls vs. Defense controls is another consideration worth looking at; but that's more complexity in exchange.
@@patricklorran1960 I didn't say that either, lol.
@@patricklorran1960i learned to play sf4 when i was 12, nothing hard about unputing a dp, just practice, if you want to play you gotta fucking play and learn, its not math
@@vasilykiselev6285 that's... Exactly what I said
The classic controls are so inconvenient for the gamepad that I would choose a different game than I would switch to it.
What’s inconvenient about it? They are standard inputs for fighting games
I think simple specials can work IF the game is designed around them. In DNFD they work really well because strong projectiles are slow with high recovery and specials have Rock, Paper, Scissors mechanics. Just putting easy inputs as an option in a regular FG doesn't seem to have a good reception because some moves will become cheap and many players will have a dumb pride about not using "easy mode".
Unless you're a signed professional player M or C shouldn't even matter. If u ain't getting paid to play SF6. It's a hobby 🤷♀
No it's a challenge, where you are just expecting the other players to be playing by the same rules.
That’s true, it is a hobby, and I don’t want to play M losers on my hobby, I started this game on modern then learned classic because modern is far too easy and boring, there is no challenge using modern thus making it boring, challenges lead to difficulty leading to fun overcoming that difficulty barrier on any aspect
@@volktol4432 Hope I can run into you in ranked and wipe the floor with your scrub ass with my modern Ryu. Please send me some hate mail afterwards too so I can send it over to scrubquotes!
as a modern player, I think it's fine the way it is. whenever I win or lose, it feels deserved on both sides. I rarely get jumped in on modern, I can do 1 button reaction supers. and on the counterpart, I need to open up my classic opponents more than they do because of the 20% damage nerf. it seems like a good trade off.
I think outside the context of very high level of play, fundamentals are what make a player good, not the control scheme.
the only part that makes modern a bit worse than classic imo is the lack of access to some normals, like Cammy's standing light kick, which is often used to hit confirm some combos, and doesn't have an equally viable substitute.
I remember when the FGC and big heads within the community where doom posting for over a year even after release about modern controls lol leave it to the FGC community to always doom post and jump so far to conclusions that they completely missed and have found themselves in another community entirely!
these mfers in the FGC will complain about everything bro, hard to take what people comment seriously when everyone thinks their dogwater opinion is just an objective truth
Me when SF isn't running - "Modern controls are so neat! They let so many folks play the game in a different way that works better for them and I think that's great!"
Me as soon as I run into a Juri using Modern in ranked - *Rage*
@@jameji_phdmy brotha if you are losing to Modern it has nothing to do with bad game design and 100% your skill issue, understandable though we all have bad matchups and characters we hate to lose to and hate to play.
If Modern controls are dead, it just means Capcom was right.
About what?
Yeah about what?
@@Prod_Ayesian That they're a reasonable implementation that isn't broken and is just an on-ramp, one assumes
@@michaelmcgee8189 yeah if Modern was as broken as ppl thought it was gonna be we’d see multiple pro’s using it. Tho given how Capcom has spoken about Modern I can’t say they wouldn’t be thrilled if that was the case. I think they’ll tweak it as the game goes on and I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a modern renaissance at some point in the future depending on DLC characters.
@@johkerx9107eventually top8s WILL have more moderns, just because there will be absolutely crazy mfs who start with sf6, never switch to classic as they improve, and become cracked outta they mind
It’s plenty Modern players out there at high level. (Shuto, Saitoh, Pichon, etc.) Only Americans look down on it. Americans think they’re better than everyone else when they’re not. It’s disgusting. At the end of the day it’s a damn video game. Majority of people who play are adults with full time jobs and families. Let folks enjoy the game. It’s only a hand full of pro players in the community anyway.
I agree with this statement, it feels like the American fgc is full of people who have massive egos, low emotional intelligence, and always complain.
Yup, this is mostly an American thing. I havent heard of any pro japanese players bitching about it like the Americans have.
"plenty of players out there"........................"its only a hand full of pro players"
BUT MODERN CONTROLS IS SCRUBBY THO. ITS A COP OUT FOR LACK OF EXECUTION
@@leonsmith7525 yeah, so?
kind of surprised that """"2XKO"""" isn't granblue vs style where you have the special move button but you can also do qcf L/M/H etc.
Jamal crofinfton is sick
Don’t forget, Smash is all modern. Except KOF and SF guest characters, who can do motion inputs for increased damage.
I'm happy to see Modern controls or whatever they get called in various games because like y'all said, it makes people more likely to give the game a shot and be in the community. Fighting games are great! That being said, my hands are too used to going for the full inputs(not always successfully lol) that the bit of World Tour in SF6 where they make you stay on Modern messed me up so I immediately switched when the game allowed it. I unbound that button in Tekken 8 after hitting it thinking it was a stance change button lol.
I think even with a modern style set of controls, 2xko will have people figuring out some absolutely crazy stuff. DNF Duel had that kind of thing too right? I don't remember for sure, but stuff got crazy in that.
DNF has them and so does granblue fantasy vs. Simple controls just remove the execution barrier it doesn’t really have any negative effects on the depth of a game imo.
I can easily play classic, since ssf4 was my first street fighter game, and i played every entry since then at a reasonably high level (3k pp/diamonds) but in sf6 i pick modern just to piss off every cringy elitist i get matched with lol. Works like a charm, so much salt and laughs
People who get owned by modern SUCK lololol
I just worry that certain moves or characters are intentionally kept bad because of how oppressive they'd be with modern. Like jmcrofts said, modern grapplers dominate low rank brackets. Will they ever make their grapplers remotely solid knowing that buffing or reworking them in certain ways will make it worse.
Like we will never get SPD oki back in the game despite it being such a fun and core appeal of so many command grabs purely because it would be viewed as too oppressive even with a damage nerf.
I hate how this game starts you on modern and forces you to change it fuck modern controls
I'm an old 3rd Strike player and playing Granblue has convinced me that future fighting games should drop the pretense that motion inputs are difficult and deserve some kind of buff for being used. Just balance your game around simple inputs, we really don't even need the motion inputs. There are very few places they serve a purpose and that's only where they make certain charge inputs impossible. With that said I don't understand why they made hit-confirms part of modern controls in SF6; it makes very little sense to me.
Im still playing modern blanka, Ed and AKI and i dont think ill go back, its been great since i dont have time and im playing tekken
Modern akuma has actually 3 Button-Press Raging Demon -> LowAttack, LowAttack, Low+Medium+HardAttack
Modern definitely should be a thing that new players use to understand the game and character. Classic is the way to go
The problem is that M players find it complicated and tedious to go from M to C because they have already gotten used to it and drop playing it
Except Modern doesn't do any of that. It only helps the newbies play the game on Modern.
"Modern definitely should be a thing that new players use to understand the game and character."
No, it shouldn't. Modern isn't teaching Street Fighter.
That's why I like the way SF6 and Tekken 8 did modern controls. Their purpose is to get newcomers use to the game, for them to see what the character can do and If they like it. As such, they are super gimp control schemes where character lose 60 to 90% of their move set and they deal less damage. Hate the way Granblue Rising implemented them. There's 0 downside, non at all. The most you get is a 10% damage reduction, that you can completely circumvent by just starting a combo with standard inputs then go full simple for the rest. It's not an option you can turn off, it's not an option you need to select. it is always on no matter what. And some characters like Charlotta (A charge character) are almost exclusive played with modern inputs because it erases the charge part of her character, her skills come instantly rather than needing you to charge them. It's so stupid. That is NOT how you implement Simple/Modern controls.
@@calcutlassMaybe Street Fighter should finally change from 6 buttons to 4
SF6 feels like a party game, so I play with modern lol
This just makes me want to lab modern lol. I’ve done modern combo trials for quite a few characters and it’s pretty robust it’s not the baby mode people think it is, you can get your mix on for real. But its biggest flaw is the damage reduction obviously I also think modern strength is very character dependent. I made it to platinum with modern guile but he loses too many essential buttons to be really good without a lot of work. Ed on the other hand barely loses anything access to all buttons and combos flow nice with motion inputs plus simple inputs. I like that’s it bad but Lowkey good if you get jiggy with it lol.
Modern is legit. You can get to master with everyone but from looking at the top modern Mr for certain characters it looks like it falls off hard. If you wanna grind to high MR classic is the way from what I can see.
@@MrShinTensei I agree with you classic is just overall better especially at high level. There’s just something I respect about taking the road less traveled lol. The fall off is almost certainly cause of the damage reduction. At high MR you can’t afford to not capitalize heavily on winning neutral exchanges. Some rounds can be over after 2 or 3 whiff punishes, modern damage reduction makes it more like 3 or 4 whiff punishes and having to win an additional neutral exchange can be the difference between winning and losing.
@LexusTheArtist modern ken main here, i made it to plat 2 with roughly 9 hours in ranked while starting from rookie. I don't play ranked often, mainly just stick to casual matches but i do think modern would be viable for me personally even in the master ranks,im not sure if this is a ken specific thing tho, aside from crouching medium punch and some aerials ken doesn't lose much at all. I do know classic controls as well(i play third strike every now and then and even tried learning them in sf6 but the drive system honestly makes it a pain sometimes) modern just feels better to me. I would like to note as well that i grew up on alot of anime arena fighting games like the budokai series, so pressing a button plus a direction for a special feels VERY natural/intuitive to me
Hmm.... if someone experiencing stuttering (lag), modern helps. Also Im not sure if others felt this way, but in sf6, with the DI, i felt that it split my brain into two sides, one side to look out fot DI, and the other for everything else. Modern helps the player to put more brain resources to look for DI and even DR, as stuff like DP or supers (for example) is literally secord nature. I used both classic qnd modern, and my brain felt so much in a comfort zone doing DP (95% successful rate), where as classic, it feels intense and i would say 75-80%. Its a big difference mentally.
I like this channel. Im a simple fight gamer
Edit. Justin keeping Modern alive with his content 😂😂😂
Justin YT Marathon (be back later)
I think both modern and classic controls are good it really depends on how you feel and your style Capcom was on to something with modern but most of us play SF with the classic playstyle modern have its ups and downs but that’s why we have training mode to figure things out
bro, how do they even measure win rate in rookie? after 3 wins youre out of it, you cant lose points...
Honestly saying that modern gief wins a lot in rookie means to me that they lost so many qualification matches that all modern giefs went to rookie
btw, modern could use a better auto combo system, having your auto combos disabled in burnout is like kicking a dead horse
It's needed for a reason
That’s cause the scrubs never leave rookie
remember that most high level moderns still use classic controls for the damage, so you still need some level of execution to be good with modern, they aren't mashing autocombos like some plat modern......... like whenever I encounter a modern masher user, I feel like I have 15000 HP cause of their low damage lmao
I tried Modern. I honestly did. But I just CANNOT like that input system.
I hate not having all my buttons
I hate not having all my specials
I hate having to rethink and rewire my decades of muscle memory
and I ESPECIALLY hate the fact that I will NEVER be optimum with punishes and combos, and even if I were, I'm still doing substantially less damage
If you have decades of muscle memory from old SF games then I don't really know what you expected to get out of Modern. It's very openly not designed for people with a background in fighting games, and that's okay
I think they're fantastic helping tools for beginners, but at higher levels, the things that used to help you and give you an edge can become a handicap instead. It's kinda telling that high level Modern players at Diamond-Master ranks typically use motion inputs and manual combos 99% of the time, give or take. At that point, I feel a lot of people who started with Modern felt it to be redundant and just transitioned to Classic seamlessly.
Yeah but its also about accessibility. I play modern and although I can do the motion inputs its so much better for hands to not have to do them all the time, because of my disability. I bought guilty gear and it was difficult to play because it affected my hands too much to do the inputs all the time.
@@laurenceaston7731 Yes, it does have benefits for physical disabilities. But let's face it. For the majority of people, it's more of a mindset problem.
I wonder how Modern would have performed if Hitbox hadn't been invented.
IMO, modern players don't play as often as the pros. I believe if a modern player really tried, they could compete with the high-level pros in rank tournaments.
I hope so. Modern controls should only exist to ease you into classic controls and should never be a go to control scheme. It’s made to help those who have poor execution still have fun
GBVS does simple-or-technical inputs perfectly and I don't know why it's never brought up in these discussions.
I'm all in for "futuristic controls"
The game of SolVNG vs Valmaster at CCX was something. Either the matchup becomes harder or Valmaster didn't see it coming like that, but it was very one sided. Valmaster usually has no issues fighting Luke (Other than Luke being top tier).
Everybody gangsta until Majin Akuma shows up
I would give access to everything the character can do with the penalty of having hits with damage reduction. Or remove the damage reduction and keep the movelist more limited.
Explain
yeah it's really stupid that modern controls makes it so you literally can't do certain normal attacks
@@guitaroacheither keep the dmg reduction on simple input inputs and specials but give characters all their normals or keep characters with a limited movset and give full damage on simple input specials and supers but not both I’m assuming
@@johkerx9107 Why assume when OP can answer themselves haha
@@guitaroach my comment was the same as what he said I just broke it down to so you’d understand it
I liked the video, but I disagree with you guys about 2xko. I think it's perfectly fine for a game to not have motion inputs as an option. I'm a classic player in SF6, but I don't feel like having motion inputs makes or breaks a game. The game just might not be for you. For example I don't like playing Tekken because the timing of combos is so different than the links and chains/gatlings that I'm used to. I still find it enjoyable to watch and I wouldn't want them to add an input method to accommodate my experience with 2D fighters.
I'm a Tekken player and I have the exact same problem as you but in reverse (Tekken to Street Fighter).
The windows, links and timings for combos are SO WEIRD for me. That's why I use Modern despite being able to do motion inputs. And Modern being able to still do the motion for stuff and the normal damage makes it really comfy to use.
I don’t think M is dead. I’m very glad they are in the game as I’m a modern player. I think they are rare in competitive play but there was a modern Luke player in Capcom cup. Rare but not dead. And in ranked and in the battle hub I still see lots of modern players. I’m still playing lots of ranked matches with my modern characters, hopefully I’ll see you all out there!
I'm waiting on the patch and my main
I genuinely hope Modern Controls get removed from competitive
Ive never had trouble fighting M players even the few that play at high MR because they are still making human mistakes and still get jittery when under pressure.
Their instant specials and supers arent really an advantage when Im used to playing Classic players that react just as fast, AA just as consistently but have their full toolkit and do unscaled dmg.
At a certain point you start making decisions with getting blown up by an instant lv1 in mind regsrdless if they are M or C because the skill level demands it, so you plan ahead of that stuff.
i don't like how each new fighter takes away legacy skills...at this rate, the genre will evolve into a turn based decision making game. i do understand why it's happening...
Same tbh.
SF7 Capcom cup won by player using dynamic controls
Genuine question: would it be too broken to give modern players access to all the moves of their classic counterpart. Ive been playing fighting games with a 4 button lay out for most of my life so idk how bad of a take this is🤷🏾♂️
I don't think they can. I mean, literally can't, even if they want to. It's because of the simple inputs that the amount of moves in Modern had to be reduced. The game is just evidently designed from the ground up with Classic first, Modern second. While the director did mention that Modern was once considered to be the sole control option, it was very early in development, and the rest of the dev team pushed back heavily against that idea. One of the reasons fighting games use motion input, aside from the obvious balancing reasons, is that they're ergonomic for arranging movelists. For example, Ken's Shoryuken and Dragonlash both use the DP motion in Classic. But when you move to how Modern does it, it gets weird. Dragonlash, despite being a forward moving move, is now a back+Special button input. They literally had to break a cardinal visual design rule in video game design (i.e., a forward moving move should have a forward input for player clarity) to be able to fit all of Ken's specials into simple inputs.
One way to get around this is to just design the game with simple inputs and fewer amount of normals from the ground up, like how Project L/2XKO does it. The game is designed with only simple inputs, hence their decision to, for example, make sure there are no invincible reversals in the game aside from super moves.
@runbaa9285 damn. I mean that's understandable but damn...
Yes it would be to broken, you don’t get to have easy inputs auto combos and instant reactions to while also having access to everything else lol
i dont think modern controls are dead but that modern players quit the game cause it did not make em better at the game
I think everyone forgets that some of the dev team had to FIGHT to get Classic controls even put into the game. With newer games, "Classic" style inputs aren't even getting dev time. SF6 might not be taken over by modern in the future, but the FGC as a whole will be from now on.
As a casual player, I just never understood why any pro player ever thought the mode that nerfed your damage and options would ever become the mew standard
That had to be one of the dumbest outrages in fgc history
Only simple inputs are nerfed for Modern controls.
the issue is if you don't make noise the modern penalties get removed in season 2/3 and the game joins the pile of ruined casual bait media.
as confirmed by the devs, SF6 wasn't going to have classic controls until late in development and SF7 will most likely not have them.
Modern control is meant to serve as a training wheel of sort. Without the 1) flexibility of the 6 bottom control, including properties of the different buttons for the special moves. 2) damage reduction.
For those who wants the full experience will eventually move to classic, and those who are happy with modern will stay in their baby ranks.
If you get owned by a modern player, YOU SUCK. It’s on YOU. Modern is literally a setting in SNK games….. EVER PICK A GROOVE BEFORE???????
It's super character dependent IMHO, modern is godly on certain characters. Juri on modern is amazing.
Not really. She's alright. Her level 2 is almost useless in Modern and shes missing cmp
Only reason to play modern juri is instant dive kicks, if you learn that on classic it makes an overall better char.
@@efarjeonfgc instant AA, and 1 frame super 1/3, and the auto combos are all super strong
@@actuallynotstevedoesn't she lose some safe jump routes with her level 2?
@@BlueLightningSky maybe, but her level 2 is so hard to use for anyone not competing in tourneys. I'm ok with it being gimped
Modern controls could only be competitively dominant if moves released and recovered faster or there were more complicated motions that couldn'tbe done, near-instantly, by norms. If a game gives you long punish windows, it doesn't offer much advantage. In tighter games that would also allow you to sneak in invincibility within a frame, it would dominate. In a game where a super or dp has 10+ frames of start up, as an example, you still have too much time between activation and hitting the opponent, regardless of saving a split second by eliminating motion requirements, for it to be relevant, competitively.
I still think Random Select is the best Modern character.
Modern controls viability really seems like a character to character thing. Some characters are really good on modern like the shoto's while some really can't even function on modern like JP, unless you end up actually doing inputs, in which case why even use modern with him lmao.
Modern brings such a huge nerf to the characters by taking many critical moves away that for the most part it becomes a competitive disadvantage. Unless capcom fixes the balance between Modern and Classic, there would always uneven representation in the top tables.
They don’t really need to fix any balance, it’s functioning as it’s supposed to.
You can still do all the classic moves while using modern. The damage penalty and lost of certain moves is fair for a one button Dp's, Super's, etc.
4:36 on a pro high level it might be a problem, when you limited in tools and have lower damage. but at lower ranks, it's not... because you can punish people by just mashing 1 button, and make about 60% damage
Modern controls arent fun to use
I cant unlearn the 6 button layout
Depends on who’s playing. I don’t like them but if it works for others that’s awesome
The average modern zengief would disagree lol
I mistakenly selected modern on Ed and lost to a bronze. Not my proudest moment 😂
Das me @@Syrup4prez
The idea of modern was appealing to me initially because I wanted to play more characters and don’t have a lot of time for games. But, in reality, Modern only works well for me on pad, and I play on stick half the tile. I end up sticking to 1 or 2 characters anyway. I used Modern for all of World Tour. I do think Modern is fun in sone ways and not in others. I would like to see Capcom evolve the idea in the future.
I think they’re in a good place. They’re fine, but they’re just a little less good. So it’s not a big deal if you want to stick to them, but some people can also be motivated to try motion controls (and find out they’re not that hard, IMO).
Modern uses motion controls if you want damage
@@MrShinTensei Yeah, some people actually just want it for the fast supers and anti airs. But I have been exposed to enough discussion about it to get the feeling that there’s still a lot of people are actually just intimidated by the motions. And watching Capcom Cup and seeing way less Modern then there was back at EVO makes me think a lot of players value the super damage more then the fast inputs.
My problem with modern controls is, that they are pretty game specific. As a Beginner If I learned SF6 on classic today, I'd be ready to jump into blazblue, guilty gear, whatever FG I'd like to try out.
If I learned it on Modern though, I have to learn completely new ways of playing even if I decide to play another simple control scheme like Blazblues stylish mode.
I grew up off SF games as a kid. Modern works for me cuz I learned smash + MK competitively + I love the layout since I picked up Granblue it just feels more right to just stick with modern even though it has drawbacks I personally don’t feel restricted with the main I use they don’t seem to get majorly affected wether I use classic or modern.
Jamal Crofington goes crazy lol
I understand why Modern is considered bad at top level but for me at Diamond 5 I hate that shit. I’m still not consistent enough with my inputs, so I miss a lot of anti airs and can’t reliably react with supers. Meanwhile if I even think about jumping in on a modern player I get DPed 100% of the time.
If you don’t have top level tech skill and reactions, fighting modern is incredibly frustrating. I also can’t shake the feeling that these people are taking a shortcut. I know I could also take this shortcut but I could also put training wheels on my bicycle. Which I won’t do because it’s embarrassing
Motion inputs are very satisfying to input... Im not sure if 2xko is going to have that feeling while playing
Once a game gets mapped out no one is going to be willing to give up damage in a fighting game
I noticed last night while trying out character I dint play a lot in ranks that all lower ranks are using modern now
if M controls are allowed im not gonna clean my up+down=N SOCD
I recently switched platforms and lost my ability to play on stick (leverless but whatever) because xbox sucks. So I started picking modern because of my background in DBFZ and I feel really good. I enjoy the execution simplicity and i feel like it has potential but it does feel REALLY bad with a lack of damage. Idk, i like it.
Modern controls are a literal handicap for the character because you lose damage, rather than just take the time in the lab to learn a combo…..
Maybe in competitive, but absolutely not overall. They are quite plentiful.
Capcom did a great job getting modern balanced. It makes the game more accessible without wrecking it. Balancing a game is hard.
The damage nerf means even the best players need one more optimized offensive interaction to win a round that they wouldn’t have with classic. Fck that
11:00 As far as I can see in Tekken some characters have very good quick inputs, where other characters have useless or easy punishable
Modern doesn’t make Drive Rush easier to do
Imagine crying over how someone else plays a game.
the damage reduction on Modern is really unnecessary bc of how many important buttons are just not accessible in that control style, i like Blanka and him not having 2mp in modern is really really bad. losing access to different strength versions of special moves is also really awful too for a lot of characters, modern on JP or Aki is unusable because of only getting one version JP's specials and only the one version of Aki Snake step which is her only real get off me tool
That’s to balance the controls, modern controls are easier than classic and taking full damage from them wouldn’t be reasonable.
Also it’s just not a big deal, if modern were a thing since sf1 and then it got hit with this random nerf in sf6 it’d suck but this is clearly how it’s meant to function.
Looks it served its purpose then. Good for new players / ranked online player. While it struggles in top lvl, which most ppl wont get to anyway.
Modern in ranked, many can reach mater with it too. Which are fine.
Modern controls are not for the competitive scene. I'm lowly Plat ☆☆ level. Yesterday, I played a quick 7 sets, and 2 of them were with M players. I had fun playing them, and I'm happier they were there than if I had to wait longer to find classic players, just because classic is classic.
GBVSR has a similar system with Simple Imputs but it's a billion times better than what Capcom tried. You only get a 10% damage debuff and don't lose access to any of your characters tools. You can do classic inputs, simple, or a hybrid of both depending on the situation.
I honestly hopy that SF stay classic forever, but I don't mind 2xko being modern only. Its a new game and was designed with it in mind.
Also, Battle for the grid is hella fun
Yeah you all nailed it. Modern is great but once you get high enough and play enough, the Modern benefits even out. Then all that's left is the damage decrease and the missing moves which made Modern a liability at that point. Someone could go all the way with Modern but the benefits don't always outweigh the small negatives with tougher competition.
I still love it, because I can hop back into the game after weeks or months away from playing and still be able to hop right back into things without feeling like I've lost too much muscle memory.
I love these guys, their commentary is great. But i think its a bit biased to say "modern is definitely worse" and "they risk it becoming better than classic" when shouldn't they be... equal... like, why do i need to learn the game twice to be a pro?
I get that it feels cheap to lose to modern because its simpler, but why cant we have 4 nodern players in top 8 at EVO? Let players choose what they like.
This is in a vacuum of course. I have no idea how you would balence it any better than they already have. But they should consider how their biases stack up, you know?
If you can't beat someone on Modern Controls, you won't beat them on classic controls when they figure out how their character works.
modern control is the hook to get kids into fighting games, and once they're hooked, no more call of duty or fortnite.
06:25 "The CAPCOP Cup"