Feel like Aggressors or Eradicators might be pretty top tier here. Maybe monopose Intercessors from the Dark Imperium box? Good luck if you glued in the flying bases for Inceptors and Suppressors though :D
I unironically have gotten awesome use out of Tactical squads with the Anvil Siege Force. Give them all Heavy bolters/grav canons and grav guns and you've got some pretty damn solid objective campers to pair with a few devastator squads.
I find sticky objectives makes intercessors an auto take. One 5 man squad is usually ignored by most opponents and lets the squad sneakily take one or two objectives. That grenade launcher is also a nice little surprise.
Me, with zero interest in collecting or playing 40k’s golden boys: “Ah yes, 40 minute space marine infantry deep dive let me get my coffee to go with the fresh Auspex!”
Always good to know what your gonna play against even if your never gonna use them. Comes in handy when fighting a new type of troop so you don’t get stomped straight away and know what they’re hiding up their sleeves
Suppressors are AWESOME to field in my opinion, because that -1 to hit really affects a lot of units in the game now. They synergize amazingly with the Anvil Force too, +1 to wound and +1 to hit when not moving.
People massively underestimate these guys. The debuff is good, and 48' makes them quite safe. In vanguard spearhead they make units with heavy keyword hit on 4+
I might have been a bit harsh on them in fairness. Just VERY rarely seen them in Comp lists so far this edition. Might be partly due to mid strength and AP perhaps (and Inceptors with the 3" drop being everywhere too perhaps?)
@@auspextactics in my experience inceptors are awesome, but they usually die young. I think a unit of suppressors usually survives all game if you are careful 48' range. So you can keep sharing the debuff, sometimes I split fire to finish something off and give -1 to another unit. But mostly they shine in the Ravenguard detachment. All units with heavy will hate these. I like to have 1 unit of suppressors, I do run inceptors too. I don't play tournaments mind you, but I honestly had good experience with these boys
@auspextactics to be fair most comp lists don't factor in good units, they just want to take the most absolutely broken units available. As if not then they won't win more than 1 game, and more people play casual than they do comp. Imho the competitive scene really has a lot of downsides for the game as a whole, as it causes people to not play armies they might like because they've heard that they suck and think they won't win a single game, it pushes the idea of spamming broken lists even at a competitive level and also pushes GW to focus on balancing just for competitive purposes and not looking at the game as a whole.
The best thing about hell blasters is they shoot on death, so there’s a blob of marines the opponent doesn’t want to shoot. I once played a game where turn one my hell blasters shot his hell blasters and killed half of them, who then shot on death back at my hell blasters killing half of them, who shot back and killed the rest of his who then shot back and killed all but one of mine. It was a glorious mess
The two things that jump out at me, I find regular terminators to be more useful that assault only so I'm surprised you had them together. Also, I get tons of mileage out of the Company Heroes. Them with Adrax and a Lt. with an enhancement have been MVP in a few games. The -1 to wound is big. Sure, on their own they would stink, but you literally can't take them without a captain.
Jane you tried 10 assault Terminators with hammers and a chaplain using blade driven deep? It's pretty spicy and the extra wound really helps their survival rate.
@@drewbg333 a squad of 10? Ehhh I would not put them into 2+ saves, even with the MWs. IMO they're chaff clearers, and the regular assault intercessors to a better job at punching up and taking points because of their wound rerolls. Plus the Sgt can take a TH which I don't think the jump int sgt can do.
@@robbo2099 if the goal was to make people stop buying firstborn space marines, they wouldn't still be selling firstborn space marines. the point is to weaken tactical squads so that veteran players will spend money to replace them with primaris intercessors. later, they'll likely respond to the complaints by making firstborn space marines better than primaris in some way, forcing new players who only bought primaris intercessors to spend money to replace their intercessors with tactical squads. these controversies are not accidental, they are meticulously planned to wring extra money out of players that they would not have otherwise spent.
I've had enormous success with Vanguard Vets lately, playing Salamanders. You take 10 of them, attach a Jump Pack Captain, and give them all Hand Flamers. All of a sudden you have a deepstriking threat that can use Immolation Protocols for free, and gets 11d6 flamer shots at S4, due to The Close Range Eradication buff. Without Vulkan's Forgefather rerolls, it usually deals around 5-7 Dev wounds, and the the rerolls... Well, I was at Rumble on the Rivers last weekend, and killed the Yncarne twice with this combo, along with the Avatar of Khaine, and a Repulsor. None of them got saves.
If the Suppressors special rule made it where it was a movement debuff in addition to -1 to hit for one nominated unit I think they would be played a lot more.
I wish Suppressors had a better shooting profile. The model looks so cool and that big gun feels like it should do a whole lot more either in terms of shots fired or AP.
I run 6 Assault Centurions as BA with a Lib Dread and they have been amazing for me so far. even in the games where they dont kill their points worth the board control they provide is great. My last game I teleported them into the enemy deployment zone and killed a desolation squad and he was like, well... thats your board corner now lol
Personally, I think the Company Heroes should be a option to only join your Warlord and they all act as a single entity. In short it's a captain+. That captain/warlord is not considered attached to a unit and can still attach as normal and buff that unit, but the buffs do not affect him or his company heroes retinue. So just a crazy tanky warlord leading a unit.
Thats what I thought they were going to do. Become a victrix guard type unit to a captain. I was really looking forward to having them plus 10 sternguard.
I feel like the Company Heroes unit could also be an option to buff other units- I’d say 'extend the buffs of your leader to other units' but I’m not sure how to word that in an elegant way
The index had me honestly hoping for firstborn to just have to wait for new models as the sternguard vets were just announced and the tacticals had the nice fall back and shoot/charge rule... but well... it didn't last...
I really truly appreciate these videos, they help me make good well informed decisions when building my armies. Thank you for your hard work and dedication.
Tbh if you want better breakdowns of units, I'd watch Vanguard Tactics. Auspex is great for news etc. but he definitely gets more wrong than right with how good certain units are this edition 😅 no hate at all to him, as he's an amazing creator, but most people I know don't tend to listen to his unit rankings as the best source of info
It's an issue when so many vets are ranked so poorly man with just so so to below average damage. Some of these are even new kits too like sternguard. I also think heavy ints are wayyyy to low for the potential they can put out as a battleline unit. I've had awesome success holding mid field points in VS detachment. Plop a biologis and cap with em and they're hard to shift with some very ok shooting at times.
I love the Heavy Intercessors in a 10 man squad, like you said, with a Biologis and maybe a Captain they're quite hard to bully and can deliver some decent damage.
Currently building a set of primaris Jump pack Vanguard veterans and captain for an experiment with the Firestorm detachment. 10 guys (plus captain) with hand flamers. 11d6 auto hits at S4 and free strat for devastating wounds, followed by 40 melee attacks at s5 ap1 and 6 at ap2 d2 from the captains relic blade. Following turn survivors from counter attacks and opposition response can fire while engaged with the flamers in shooting phase as they're pistols. Worth a try, may be a heroic failure but the fast movement and continuous flamer attacks may pay off, particularly if vulkan is nearby for his ability to support.
I wish the Company Hero squad had some options, like trading the shooting guys out for 2 Blade Guard or replacing the Company Champion with another Heavy weapon guy. Would make the unit choice more playable in my opinion.
I've been using an Incursor unit either to get +1 to hit on my Oath target (just to ensure more hits even with Oaths) or to get +1 vs a non-Oath target if I know I could kill my Oath relatively easily
I remember just before 10th started (but when previews were coming out showing the HEAVY keyword, and that certain auto-cannons were getting 3 Damage) I put effort into stripping and re-painting my Suppressors, because I thought they would actually do some decent damage for a change, and not just be a lame gimmick unit. Boy, was I wrong lol.
One argument for foot Assault Intercessors, they actually have a decent reason to take a TH over a PF. Full rerolls to wound on a weapon with Dev Wounds is always spooky.
I can't really argue with the ranking and reasoning behind it, but it's genuinely hilarious to see many of the non-divergent SM options shift so much from the 8th and 9th meta (except for Reivers who were low-bottom trash-tier from day 1).
I think people sleep on suppressors. They are awesome. I was playing vanguard spearhead against necrons. Thanks to suppressors, the Doomsday Ark was hitting on 4+ all game even if staying still with Heavy
Sternguards with combi weapon for me are very good because with combi weapon on +4 they get automatically deva wounds add Azrael to them and that's a great combo for me. Devastator hit on +4 but they have anti-vehicle-2+ which is highly reliable
The one thing about Reivers that wasn't mentioned is that all of their weapons, both ranged and melee (aside from the basic close combat weapon) are precision. So they are basically assassin squads that can scout ahead or deep strike and hopefully take out a character or two before they are done with. Nevertheless, their lack of high strength and AP means they would still only really be good at taking toughness 3 characters. MEQ characters would still be a challenge.
A squad of 5, with a lieutenant can drop in from deepstrike, shoot with lethal precision hits, move 1d6 and then hopefully get a charge off with another 2d6, and then go precision lethal hits again in melee, then break some morale and remove something from an objective. It's not a bad little bundle
Really wish for the stern guard the re roll wound of 1 was for any target and not locked to the oath target. They could of even locked it to just shooting so it fit there flavor very well
Heavy Intercessors are Top 10 easy and you absolutely want to push them upfield to a mid objective. 105pts for 5 chonky gravis boys at T6 3W and if on objective +1 to save vs 1 damage weapons. Offensively with 8 shots of Heavy Bolt rifles that are assault, heavy, at 5 -1 1, and 3 shots of Heavy bolter that is assault, heavy, Sus1, 5 -1 2. Thats excellent! I want my deadly stuff free to roam around and be deadly and worry about secondary play while these beef patties just go plop down and do primary work for me.
100% this Everyone sleeping on these big chonky boys and good screening will keep stuff away. 30" of range is hard to run though without being intercepted or shot to death. This is the real MVP for fire discipline on a biologis, with a captain for free devastator round
Surprised you didn’t mention how powerful and Incepters are in a vanguard spearhead… Being able to pick up a squad and put them back in Deepstrke after turn 3 is extremely powerful
Yeah incepters seem way better than infiltrators, their guns are better with assault and ignore cover than just heavy and they are 15 points cheaper which is significant. Sure they don’t deny deepstrike but with vanguard they can simply ignore it. L
Give normal boltguns Assault and -1AP. Boom, tactical squads are useful again. Idk why Intercessors have Assault on larger/heavier guns, makes no sense.
🟣 Great Video thank you, 2:41 , I don't see the Attack number as being literally the amount of swipes a model makes. More the effectiveness of the accumulated attack. So for example 2 Attacks hitting and wound and one not being saved, isn't 1 Attack succeeding, narratively that's one mighty swipe being halved due to the targets trusty armour. So in my story head, Primaris being stronger, would have +1 Attack over their smaller First Born brothers
Inceptors are a unit I love to pair with both a Landspeeder Thrunderstrike and Incursors, specially when using a 6 man unit of them you can do a lot of damage against an enemy vehicle or monster unit, you basically hit them with both a +1 to hit and a +1 to wound, you Oath of Moment that Target, drop in within 3 inches, Supercharge your plasma exterminators and you hit on 2+ with rerolling failed hit rolls, and against most vehicles you wound on a 4+ with Twin-Linked so you re-roll failed wounds, with AP -3 and Damage 3, you can end up doing 12+ damage with that combo and kill an enemy vehicle in the backline, even if I loose 1 or 2 models to Hazardous, if I can kill an enemy tank which is laying down hate on my guys I get the advantage there really fast since there is still a unit of very dangerous fast moving Inceptors on their backline.
I find eradicators incredibly powerful if paired with an apothecary biologis. Giving them lethal hits the negative point of wounding on 5s most of the time is at least slightly negated by the chance of rolling lethals
It’s honestly a crime that Terminators, despite being the poster boy of the Leviathan box and 10th edition in general, are middling lackluster units that just seem confused on what they want to achieve.
I love to field heavy intercessors. They are that unit that my opponent is always annoyed to have to deal with. They are tough as nails but don't do a ton of damage. And I feel like thats where the frustration of targeting them comes from. You have to dump some fairly elite firepower to get rid of a unit thats just not that dangerous. But in terms of point scoring, ya kinda have to. 😅
I ran an all TAC DA army and it was quite competitve with Devastators and Term as my backup. I lost once in the slow build league, and that was really my pride not taking any Devastators
Having had a squad of plasma inceptors get lucky last night and take down a rapidly ingressed karnivore before it could even act, I definitely agree with their ranking
I feel pointing out that Ragnar can run with a group of Bladeguard is a bigger deal. He gives them easy advance and charge regardless of Detachment and that results in a unit that hits like a truck. Even better if their is also a LT in the unit.
The only thing i think you underrated is the vanguard veterans but only in firestorm for there handflammers and inferno pistols give them a captain with jump pack with an inferno pistol and to get that big flam strat for free(pretty sure that's a battle tactic but could be wrong). Kinda weird that there melee still really meh but what works works.
I’m going to hazard a guess that desolation marines are going to get a points drop in the next data slate window. They are way overcosted and nobody is going to be buying the new kit at that cost per point ratio.
Heavy intercessors one of the best. Just try to play against 60 of them plus garadon. You can,t kill it. And under anvil detachment with plus 1 to hit and wound.
Vanguard bets can take 10 hand flamers or 10 inferno pistols, in firestorm that can't be slept on, while not the best, don't think they are that close to the bottom.
And kayvaan gets them in real close. 10 S9 D2+1d3 shots followed by 40 S5 lethal hits is kinda scary, especially if you shoot a multi wound unit then charge something with loads of 1W dudes
Vanguard veterans really took a big oof this edition. The unit literally comes with all their weapons in the kit yet GW decided to nerf everything into a single catch all weapon option. Anyone with hammers and shields just had all their units made illegal. Combi weapons are another oof too. The special weapon side of those guns was made useless and were combined into a worse bolt weapon profile and less shots outside half range. Anti infantry 4+ does nothing. What’s even worse is the fact that 2 of the 5 sternguard in the leviathan box come with combi weapons. Nobody is running them as combi weapons, when sternguard bolt rifles are just flat better.
Anti infantry +4 does something. There are a lot of other infantry for other races that are TOUGH or have good saves. Necrons skorpehks come to mind. T7 but they're infantry.
Anti infantry is great on something that can be scary. Wounding on a minimum of 4 with a weapon that at most will get 1 shot per model and has no ap on the attack in the problem. Anti infantry is cool but if it’s other stats can’t capitalize, it’s a waste.
I really don't understand the Suppressor rank. I tend to run 1 or 2 units of them in my wolves list, and while, yes they are not massive damage dealer, they are an excellent support/debuff unit. I truly fund them to be a clutch utility unit.
I don't get the Vulkan He'stan buff not affecting his unit. On the forgefather rule it says a friendly model right? If he goes with infernus they should benefit of his buff or am I wrong?
I'm playing a crusade with a Dark Angels army. I included 6 aggressors with bolters, the biologis and the fire disciple and they are brutal. I'm delivering them with my Land Raider crusader and in 3 games they've already killed 13 units.
I'd change it to 10 heavy intercessors personally. 4 more bodies (more wounds, less firepower reduction when taking casualties), better range (30" is nuts for most games and outranges most infantry), better standing strength (S5 means MEQ wounds on 3+), already has ap built in, ignores damage if on an objective and can hit on 2+ or assault. And 10 points cheaper :P
Desolation squads… terrible and stupid looking as f-. Should’ve just made aggressors have a Krak missile upgrade and called it good… get rid of heavy intercessors, too, while you’re at it, imo… don’t mind me - just screaming into the void. It helps.
If only Inceptor flight stands weren’t such a pain in the ass. I used that unit ONCE since I got it in Dark Imperium, back during an 8th edition game. After that I never used them again, as I was terrified of the flight stands snapping off. I went ahead and ordered those smoke trails I’ve seen online, though. Hopefully they’re a lot more stable than the flight stands, and I can finally use the 9 Inceptors I have lying around (I got three Dark Imperium boxed sets). Although I’d like the dual plasma guys, but I never got that box, and now it’s out of stock everywhere. 😒 So what IS the better choice these days for Inceptors? Dual bolter or dual plasma?
Oh Reavers. If only you had decent speed, decent shooting, and decent melee, you might be decent units. Remember when these guys were like ~24 points per guy? Every time they get brought up I just have to point out the simple fix. A little speed, a few special weapons, and some better stats on their base gear, and they'd be great backline bully units.
It seems to me Incursers are tenfold above Infiltrators. I mean the difference of worse weaponry and deepstrike denial for 15 points? Does that truly make them better?
Bummer that Inceptors are hot at the moment. I've got two squads with the Assault Bolters and was just in the mood to get one squad of the Plasma variant, but I guess I'll be waiting until GW decides to nerf them and people start selling them off.
Vanguard vets are one of the hero’s of the codex for me. Sure they suck with normal chapters. In blood angels with a sanguinary priest. Also a captain or Dante if you want they are incredible. The priest makes their attacks 5 -2 1 and the 5+ fnp as well with some storm shields makes them tanks fast as well. What beautiful dudes.
Kayvaan shrike from RG also loves a 10 pack with the inferno pistols Rapid ingress them in, can't be shot outside of 12" and the foe has already made their move. Check mate Then they have 12" of movement and a charge, so can easily get into melta and 2+ charge range, and could easily melt a multi wound target with the pistols then charge something else with 40 S5 attacks And then they disappear and do it again.
Company heroes would bice, if you could attach a unit to them,that can be attached to it's attached captain. Also, why can't they be used with Ragnar Blackmane who is a captain???
Are you eating your words yet on the Company Heroes? Literally the only of the new units seeing competitive play and almost winning the World Championships.
I think it's a little weird that it's called a storm bolter but shoots just as much as the standard bolter I think it would be better at 3 shots and rapid fire 1
Storm bolter has an extra rapid fire (2)? But definitely should be 3 standard shots. BUT that would make a termie squad, with a librarian in firestorm lethal. They're already shooting 24 S5 hits at deepstrike range, imagine 30!
@william9557 i agree with you there but outside of rapid fire a 10 man intercessor squad puts out the same numbers the only real advantage the terminators have is their ability to deepstrike into rapid fire range then charge they put out low numbers with just the storm bolters and require the heavy weapons to get decent shooting in outside half
I like the frag and crak launchers I wish they put out some better numbers outside half range I feel forced to deep strike them any time I use them or I'm just missing out on the potential charge and double shooting
Can’t you pair eliminators with las fusil with librarian in Phobos armor then unit can’t be target outside of 12 so if park them in elevated spot then can remain stationary and hitting on 2 for stationary with debating wound. Or could go with sniper rifle means a turn or 2 before can be targeted and remove opponent leaders. Just a thought curious to your thoughts
It's just very expensive for what it does and thus becomes underwhelming. Id rather the snipers either allow 3 more models (or just make it a minimum of 5 like scouts) or give them 12" no shoot without the librarian.
It's quite funny how malicious and roundabout was gw's way to not give tacticals any special ability. Just remove basic option to take them as five man squad (which everyone have) and make this their special.
Yeah, but GW is definitely not killing the FIrstborn. They even said so (before cutting nearly all their units)... also, please don't try to use Rhinos and Razorbacks, dear players. Nobody is allowed into those. Go and play with our new grav tanks based on 90s kids toys with tons of guns attached.
@@johannestafelmaier616naaaaah.... But it's a classic! Been with the community for decades! And actually looks relatively practical. I'd honestly be happy if they just upsized it to a better scale - I'm taking too many Land Raiders because I want tracks and they are the only ones that look propa next to primaris.
@@johannestafelmaier616 tastes differ, but the rhino is a classical design of 40k used in several different armies and both settings (40k and hh). is it the hottest shit? no, not at all XD still its an iconic look. there is a reason why the tie-fighter and x-wing as well as the millenium falcon are the most recognised star wars vehicles and all that followed tried to mimic them (except for early prequels - which pretty much failed at leaving a lasting impression). the new vehicles stand out from the iconic look. primaris might be utterly bland and boring but they still feel mostly like space marines. the cheap el camino truck-ripoff doesn't :)
Reivers really need new guns or like idk how would a 6” deep strike or ignore anti-deep strike stuff? Or something like forcing an enemy squad to move whether by like fear or grappling launchering them towards the squad. Or like how there’s anti vehicle, anti psyker, etc maybe anti-scout?
You are correct. They are allowed to come within 3" during reinforcement phase but something says ALL things can't drop in during reinforcement unless outside of 12". Can't trumps can.
I love the videos and I mean this in the kindest way possible but turning one of these videos always makes me realize that i have more important things to do 😂
I'm a little disappointed at how much Jump Assault Intercessors are better than regular Assault Intercessors. It's a five point difference for a squad of five and you get to FLY and run some plasma pistols? Geez. did I get that right about the plasma pistols?
I think suppressor squads don't get enough credit. They're really strong with 3 shots each and 48 inches of range. Assault intercessors are complete trash. They always die and their chain swords don't really do any damage at all.
![FNAF vs TF2 - Episode 2 [SFM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z5b3V2-VLb0/mqdefault.jpg)
Now rank every Space Marine infantry unit's models by how many times you can drop them before they break
Can confirm that it only took me one mistake to completely destroy my new style Gravis Captain 😢😢😢
Feel like Aggressors or Eradicators might be pretty top tier here. Maybe monopose Intercessors from the Dark Imperium box? Good luck if you glued in the flying bases for Inceptors and Suppressors though :D
Got a great chuckle out of this.
ummm... do that for necrons please. damn those thin arms.
And it's impossible not to somehow break Ophydian destroyers.
I one time dropped an Aggressor... I now have a new desk
I still find it funny that unit named INFILTRATORS is the one that protects from enemy infiltration and is often just sitting on home objective
They went on strike!!! 🤣🤣🤣 F the front line BS!!! Lol
Though I deff agree to that I dolike having the option to put them mid field still :-)
I appreciate it, but it drives me mad
Space Marine Filtrators
Should be called disruptors
Tactical Squad being not only at the absolute bottom, but even below Reivers just hurst too much.
I unironically have gotten awesome use out of Tactical squads with the Anvil Siege Force. Give them all Heavy bolters/grav canons and grav guns and you've got some pretty damn solid objective campers to pair with a few devastator squads.
@Heylow Give them all heavy guns? You can give one model in the unit a heavy gun
@@Lafessoras in, take the minimum squad count needed to take a heavy weapon, and bestow as many special weapons as possible
@@WilhelmScreamer So one heavy gun and one special weapon? It's a flat unit size of 10
If GW didn't have a precedent for being notoriously bad at writing rules I'd be suspicious that the state of them was transparently intentional. 🤔
Seeing Tactical Squads in dead last hurts my heart.
I find sticky objectives makes intercessors an auto take. One 5 man squad is usually ignored by most opponents and lets the squad sneakily take one or two objectives. That grenade launcher is also a nice little surprise.
Especially when paired with the Ironstorm detachment’s free re roll’s.
Me, with zero interest in collecting or playing 40k’s golden boys:
“Ah yes, 40 minute space marine infantry deep dive let me get my coffee to go with the fresh Auspex!”
No, no, the custodies are the golden boys... well, golden people anyway.
Always good to know what your gonna play against even if your never gonna use them. Comes in handy when fighting a new type of troop so you don’t get stomped straight away and know what they’re hiding up their sleeves
It's really a nice feeling when you just update the yt feed and there is a new auspex vid up 😂
Suppressors are AWESOME to field in my opinion, because that -1 to hit really affects a lot of units in the game now.
They synergize amazingly with the Anvil Force too, +1 to wound and +1 to hit when not moving.
I run 3 squads of them sitting in the backline. That 48" range and -1 to hit have saved my ass repeatedly and more than made up for their points
People massively underestimate these guys.
The debuff is good, and 48' makes them quite safe.
In vanguard spearhead they make units with heavy keyword hit on 4+
I might have been a bit harsh on them in fairness. Just VERY rarely seen them in Comp lists so far this edition. Might be partly due to mid strength and AP perhaps (and Inceptors with the 3" drop being everywhere too perhaps?)
@@auspextactics in my experience inceptors are awesome, but they usually die young.
I think a unit of suppressors usually survives all game if you are careful 48' range.
So you can keep sharing the debuff, sometimes I split fire to finish something off and give -1 to another unit.
But mostly they shine in the Ravenguard detachment.
All units with heavy will hate these. I like to have 1 unit of suppressors, I do run inceptors too.
I don't play tournaments mind you, but I honestly had good experience with these boys
@auspextactics to be fair most comp lists don't factor in good units, they just want to take the most absolutely broken units available. As if not then they won't win more than 1 game, and more people play casual than they do comp. Imho the competitive scene really has a lot of downsides for the game as a whole, as it causes people to not play armies they might like because they've heard that they suck and think they won't win a single game, it pushes the idea of spamming broken lists even at a competitive level and also pushes GW to focus on balancing just for competitive purposes and not looking at the game as a whole.
Seeing scouts again as such usable units makes me go back to the epic of 7th and 8th, when BA lists covered all their line troops with scouts...
Now if only GW would release the scouts set.
For someone who struggles to identify models this video is going to be mad helpful! Thanks Auspex, it's appreciated.
The best thing about hell blasters is they shoot on death, so there’s a blob of marines the opponent doesn’t want to shoot.
I once played a game where turn one my hell blasters shot his hell blasters and killed half of them, who then shot on death back at my hell blasters killing half of them, who shot back and killed the rest of his who then shot back and killed all but one of mine. It was a glorious mess
The two things that jump out at me, I find regular terminators to be more useful that assault only so I'm surprised you had them together. Also, I get tons of mileage out of the Company Heroes. Them with Adrax and a Lt. with an enhancement have been MVP in a few games. The -1 to wound is big. Sure, on their own they would stink, but you literally can't take them without a captain.
😂😂😂😂 baloonfart😂😂😂😂
You've made my day.
Jane you tried 10 assault Terminators with hammers and a chaplain using blade driven deep? It's pretty spicy and the extra wound really helps their survival rate.
The issue with assault intercessors is that you can get jump packs for 5 points more.
Jump assaults don't pack as much punch though. Those reroll wound rolls come in handy.
@@XealotCoilsput a chaplain in there to add one to the wound as well
And OC2 compared to OC1
@@XealotCoils yeah but if you get a full squad in your doing like 5 mortals which is better against 2+ armour saves.
@@drewbg333 a squad of 10? Ehhh I would not put them into 2+ saves, even with the MWs.
IMO they're chaff clearers, and the regular assault intercessors to a better job at punching up and taking points because of their wound rerolls. Plus the Sgt can take a TH which I don't think the jump int sgt can do.
Its hurt to see the tactical squad in the bottom of the list
Is it to stop people not buying more and using their ancient models?
@@robbo2099probably. The time of firstborn is over, the time of primaris has come
@@robbo2099 if the goal was to make people stop buying firstborn space marines, they wouldn't still be selling firstborn space marines. the point is to weaken tactical squads so that veteran players will spend money to replace them with primaris intercessors.
later, they'll likely respond to the complaints by making firstborn space marines better than primaris in some way, forcing new players who only bought primaris intercessors to spend money to replace their intercessors with tactical squads.
these controversies are not accidental, they are meticulously planned to wring extra money out of players that they would not have otherwise spent.
I've had enormous success with Vanguard Vets lately, playing Salamanders.
You take 10 of them, attach a Jump Pack Captain, and give them all Hand Flamers.
All of a sudden you have a deepstriking threat that can use Immolation Protocols for free, and gets 11d6 flamer shots at S4, due to The Close Range Eradication buff. Without Vulkan's Forgefather rerolls, it usually deals around 5-7 Dev wounds, and the the rerolls... Well, I was at Rumble on the Rivers last weekend, and killed the Yncarne twice with this combo, along with the Avatar of Khaine, and a Repulsor.
None of them got saves.
Does avatar take damage from flamers now?
@@jackp492 yes, and has done for quite a few editions. It doesn't ignore flame/melta weapons in the way it once did.
If the Suppressors special rule made it where it was a movement debuff in addition to -1 to hit for one nominated unit I think they would be played a lot more.
pretty solid list, almost like this guy know alot about the game and does daily videos about it
I wish Suppressors had a better shooting profile. The model looks so cool and that big gun feels like it should do a whole lot more either in terms of shots fired or AP.
I run 6 Assault Centurions as BA with a Lib Dread and they have been amazing for me so far. even in the games where they dont kill their points worth the board control they provide is great. My last game I teleported them into the enemy deployment zone and killed a desolation squad and he was like, well... thats your board corner now lol
Personally, I think the Company Heroes should be a option to only join your Warlord and they all act as a single entity. In short it's a captain+. That captain/warlord is not considered attached to a unit and can still attach as normal and buff that unit, but the buffs do not affect him or his company heroes retinue.
So just a crazy tanky warlord leading a unit.
Thats what I thought they were going to do. Become a victrix guard type unit to a captain. I was really looking forward to having them plus 10 sternguard.
I feel like the Company Heroes unit could also be an option to buff other units- I’d say 'extend the buffs of your leader to other units' but I’m not sure how to word that in an elegant way
My poor tacticals... I don't hate primaris, but it's a shame to see iconic units have less and less support in rules.
The index had me honestly hoping for firstborn to just have to wait for new models as the sternguard vets were just announced and the tacticals had the nice fall back and shoot/charge rule... but well... it didn't last...
I really truly appreciate these videos, they help me make good well informed decisions when building my armies. Thank you for your hard work and dedication.
Tbh if you want better breakdowns of units, I'd watch Vanguard Tactics. Auspex is great for news etc. but he definitely gets more wrong than right with how good certain units are this edition 😅 no hate at all to him, as he's an amazing creator, but most people I know don't tend to listen to his unit rankings as the best source of info
Ya, he put inceptors first.. a unit I never take... always watching his channel for news tho ;)
It's an issue when so many vets are ranked so poorly man with just so so to below average damage. Some of these are even new kits too like sternguard. I also think heavy ints are wayyyy to low for the potential they can put out as a battleline unit. I've had awesome success holding mid field points in VS detachment. Plop a biologis and cap with em and they're hard to shift with some very ok shooting at times.
I love the Heavy Intercessors in a 10 man squad, like you said, with a Biologis and maybe a Captain they're quite hard to bully and can deliver some decent damage.
@@bigspinshit I like using strike from shadows on them for free for some nice battleshock against most infantry bricks
@@tastefulavenger Oh that sounds good! Will try that for sure 😁
Everyone's talking about aggressor blob in gladius hut they all sleeping on the S5 bullet storm from 10 heavy intercessors
@@william9557 I think it's because they're twin linked really the only thing that sets em apart.
Currently building a set of primaris Jump pack Vanguard veterans and captain for an experiment with the Firestorm detachment. 10 guys (plus captain) with hand flamers. 11d6 auto hits at S4 and free strat for devastating wounds, followed by 40 melee attacks at s5 ap1 and 6 at ap2 d2 from the captains relic blade.
Following turn survivors from counter attacks and opposition response can fire while engaged with the flamers in shooting phase as they're pistols.
Worth a try, may be a heroic failure but the fast movement and continuous flamer attacks may pay off, particularly if vulkan is nearby for his ability to support.
I wish the Company Hero squad had some options, like trading the shooting guys out for 2 Blade Guard or replacing the Company Champion with another Heavy weapon guy.
Would make the unit choice more playable in my opinion.
I wish they let the champion keep his free heroic intervention
This video has been so helpful. Thank you.
I've been using an Incursor unit either to get +1 to hit on my Oath target (just to ensure more hits even with Oaths) or to get +1 vs a non-Oath target if I know I could kill my Oath relatively easily
That +1 is really nice for securing the extra hits if you're using Oath to fish
I remember just before 10th started (but when previews were coming out showing the HEAVY keyword, and that certain auto-cannons were getting 3 Damage) I put effort into stripping and re-painting my Suppressors, because I thought they would actually do some decent damage for a change, and not just be a lame gimmick unit. Boy, was I wrong lol.
One day my friend...one day 😅
One argument for foot Assault Intercessors, they actually have a decent reason to take a TH over a PF. Full rerolls to wound on a weapon with Dev Wounds is always spooky.
I can't really argue with the ranking and reasoning behind it, but it's genuinely hilarious to see many of the non-divergent SM options shift so much from the 8th and 9th meta (except for Reivers who were low-bottom trash-tier from day 1).
I think people sleep on suppressors. They are awesome.
I was playing vanguard spearhead against necrons. Thanks to suppressors, the Doomsday Ark was hitting on 4+ all game even if staying still with Heavy
Thanks for this, really helpful. Being greedy, a vehicle take would be so helpful.
Sternguards with combi weapon for me are very good because with combi weapon on +4 they get automatically deva wounds add Azrael to them and that's a great combo for me. Devastator hit on +4 but they have anti-vehicle-2+ which is highly reliable
The one thing about Reivers that wasn't mentioned is that all of their weapons, both ranged and melee (aside from the basic close combat weapon) are precision. So they are basically assassin squads that can scout ahead or deep strike and hopefully take out a character or two before they are done with.
Nevertheless, their lack of high strength and AP means they would still only really be good at taking toughness 3 characters. MEQ characters would still be a challenge.
A squad of 5, with a lieutenant can drop in from deepstrike, shoot with lethal precision hits, move 1d6 and then hopefully get a charge off with another 2d6, and then go precision lethal hits again in melee, then break some morale and remove something from an objective.
It's not a bad little bundle
Good against guard, that’s it
Really wish for the stern guard the re roll wound of 1 was for any target and not locked to the oath target. They could of even locked it to just shooting so it fit there flavor very well
Man! It's hard to hear that about Company Heroes! Mine look absolutely amazing and I don't think I've ever been more proud of a squad I've completed.
Art of War put them very high in their tier list
Woo Eliminators at 7th and Inceptors at number 1, two of my favorite infantry models.
Heavy Intercessors are Top 10 easy and you absolutely want to push them upfield to a mid objective. 105pts for 5 chonky gravis boys at T6 3W and if on objective +1 to save vs 1 damage weapons. Offensively with 8 shots of Heavy Bolt rifles that are assault, heavy, at 5 -1 1, and 3 shots of Heavy bolter that is assault, heavy, Sus1, 5 -1 2. Thats excellent! I want my deadly stuff free to roam around and be deadly and worry about secondary play while these beef patties just go plop down and do primary work for me.
100% this
Everyone sleeping on these big chonky boys and good screening will keep stuff away. 30" of range is hard to run though without being intercepted or shot to death.
This is the real MVP for fire discipline on a biologis, with a captain for free devastator round
Surprised you didn’t mention how powerful and Incepters are in a vanguard spearhead… Being able to pick up a squad and put them back in Deepstrke after turn 3 is extremely powerful
Yeah incepters seem way better than infiltrators, their guns are better with assault and ignore cover than just heavy and they are 15 points cheaper which is significant. Sure they don’t deny deepstrike but with vanguard they can simply ignore it.
L
Give normal boltguns Assault and -1AP. Boom, tactical squads are useful again. Idk why Intercessors have Assault on larger/heavier guns, makes no sense.
Love your content. Very educational!
Excellent video. Very mind opening. ❤
Just seen the Dark Angel Knights leak they look Epic !
🟣 Great Video thank you, 2:41 , I don't see the Attack number as being literally the amount of swipes a model makes. More the effectiveness of the accumulated attack. So for example 2 Attacks hitting and wound and one not being saved, isn't 1 Attack succeeding, narratively that's one mighty swipe being halved due to the targets trusty armour.
So in my story head, Primaris being stronger, would have +1 Attack over their smaller First Born brothers
Inceptors are a unit I love to pair with both a Landspeeder Thrunderstrike and Incursors, specially when using a 6 man unit of them you can do a lot of damage against an enemy vehicle or monster unit, you basically hit them with both a +1 to hit and a +1 to wound, you Oath of Moment that Target, drop in within 3 inches, Supercharge your plasma exterminators and you hit on 2+ with rerolling failed hit rolls, and against most vehicles you wound on a 4+ with Twin-Linked so you re-roll failed wounds, with AP -3 and Damage 3, you can end up doing 12+ damage with that combo and kill an enemy vehicle in the backline, even if I loose 1 or 2 models to Hazardous, if I can kill an enemy tank which is laying down hate on my guys I get the advantage there really fast since there is still a unit of very dangerous fast moving Inceptors on their backline.
I find eradicators incredibly powerful if paired with an apothecary biologis. Giving them lethal hits the negative point of wounding on 5s most of the time is at least slightly negated by the chance of rolling lethals
It’s honestly a crime that Terminators, despite being the poster boy of the Leviathan box and 10th edition in general, are middling lackluster units that just seem confused on what they want to achieve.
I love to field heavy intercessors. They are that unit that my opponent is always annoyed to have to deal with. They are tough as nails but don't do a ton of damage. And I feel like thats where the frustration of targeting them comes from. You have to dump some fairly elite firepower to get rid of a unit thats just not that dangerous. But in terms of point scoring, ya kinda have to. 😅
I ran an all TAC DA army and it was quite competitve with Devastators and Term as my backup. I lost once in the slow build league, and that was really my pride not taking any Devastators
First born have been absolutely shafted.
Having had a squad of plasma inceptors get lucky last night and take down a rapidly ingressed karnivore before it could even act, I definitely agree with their ranking
Thank you for what you do sir
I feel pointing out that Ragnar can run with a group of Bladeguard is a bigger deal. He gives them easy advance and charge regardless of Detachment and that results in a unit that hits like a truck. Even better if their is also a LT in the unit.
I feel that the Liutenant with combi weapon can enter in this list and is quite an underdog. Much better than scouts
Wound re-roll after the lose of oath reroll is quite needed. Pick a hotly contested objective and it'll make its own points back
The only thing i think you underrated is the vanguard veterans but only in firestorm for there handflammers and inferno pistols give them a captain with jump pack with an inferno pistol and to get that big flam strat for free(pretty sure that's a battle tactic but could be wrong). Kinda weird that there melee still really meh but what works works.
I’m going to hazard a guess that desolation marines are going to get a points drop in the next data slate window. They are way overcosted and nobody is going to be buying the new kit at that cost per point ratio.
desolators: Get them in an impulsor with buffs from techmarine-enhancements and stratagems and they becomme very dangerous again.
Pretty sure the inceptors main guns are pistol meaning you can still shoot their main stuff while engaged. No?
ive foudn adding a phobos librarian to eliminators is a really good combo to give them lone operative and ignores cover with the anvil seige force
Would you take 6 Aggressors and Biologis in a Land RaiderRedeemer or a 10 man sword brethren squad with Helbrecht in a Land Raider Redeemer?
Heavy intercessors one of the best. Just try to play against 60 of them plus garadon. You can,t kill it.
And under anvil detachment with plus 1 to hit and wound.
I use suppressors alot. Just to menace teams and overwatch stuff I need to miss. Lol
Vanguard bets can take 10 hand flamers or 10 inferno pistols, in firestorm that can't be slept on, while not the best, don't think they are that close to the bottom.
And kayvaan gets them in real close. 10 S9 D2+1d3 shots followed by 40 S5 lethal hits is kinda scary, especially if you shoot a multi wound unit then charge something with loads of 1W dudes
Vanguard veterans really took a big oof this edition. The unit literally comes with all their weapons in the kit yet GW decided to nerf everything into a single catch all weapon option. Anyone with hammers and shields just had all their units made illegal. Combi weapons are another oof too. The special weapon side of those guns was made useless and were combined into a worse bolt weapon profile and less shots outside half range. Anti infantry 4+ does nothing. What’s even worse is the fact that 2 of the 5 sternguard in the leviathan box come with combi weapons. Nobody is running them as combi weapons, when sternguard bolt rifles are just flat better.
Anti infantry +4 does something. There are a lot of other infantry for other races that are TOUGH or have good saves. Necrons skorpehks come to mind. T7 but they're infantry.
Anti infantry is great on something that can be scary. Wounding on a minimum of 4 with a weapon that at most will get 1 shot per model and has no ap on the attack in the problem. Anti infantry is cool but if it’s other stats can’t capitalize, it’s a waste.
I really don't understand the Suppressor rank. I tend to run 1 or 2 units of them in my wolves list, and while, yes they are not massive damage dealer, they are an excellent support/debuff unit. I truly fund them to be a clutch utility unit.
I don't get the Vulkan He'stan buff not affecting his unit. On the forgefather rule it says a friendly model right? If he goes with infernus they should benefit of his buff or am I wrong?
Reivers would be interesting if their bolters or combat blades got sustained hits 2
Please do an updated GK video!
I think the suppressor has a great model too bad its underwhelming
I still want to run one unit of them at least. They seem like fun air support.
Definitely feel like the Company Heroes should’ve at the least allowed their joined character to also buff a second unit.
Unfortunately, I can’t get my hands on any Scouts
I'm playing a crusade with a Dark Angels army. I included 6 aggressors with bolters, the biologis and the fire disciple and they are brutal. I'm delivering them with my Land Raider crusader and in 3 games they've already killed 13 units.
Your playing crusade and going meta???
@@robainsworth2014 what do you mean?
I'd change it to 10 heavy intercessors personally.
4 more bodies (more wounds, less firepower reduction when taking casualties), better range (30" is nuts for most games and outranges most infantry), better standing strength (S5 means MEQ wounds on 3+), already has ap built in, ignores damage if on an objective and can hit on 2+ or assault.
And 10 points cheaper :P
Desolation squads… terrible and stupid looking as f-. Should’ve just made aggressors have a Krak missile upgrade and called it good… get rid of heavy intercessors, too, while you’re at it, imo… don’t mind me - just screaming into the void. It helps.
Random question, as a space wolves player what ould be the most cost effective unit for screening purposes?
Fenrisian Wolves
If only Inceptor flight stands weren’t such a pain in the ass. I used that unit ONCE since I got it in Dark Imperium, back during an 8th edition game. After that I never used them again, as I was terrified of the flight stands snapping off.
I went ahead and ordered those smoke trails I’ve seen online, though. Hopefully they’re a lot more stable than the flight stands, and I can finally use the 9 Inceptors I have lying around (I got three Dark Imperium boxed sets). Although I’d like the dual plasma guys, but I never got that box, and now it’s out of stock everywhere. 😒
So what IS the better choice these days for Inceptors? Dual bolter or dual plasma?
Without even viewing, I'm guessing scouts, infiltrators and aggressors all high up...
Spot on
Forgot inceptors too
Just all the meta crap everyone runs
Oh Reavers. If only you had decent speed, decent shooting, and decent melee, you might be decent units. Remember when these guys were like ~24 points per guy? Every time they get brought up I just have to point out the simple fix. A little speed, a few special weapons, and some better stats on their base gear, and they'd be great backline bully units.
It seems to me Incursers are tenfold above Infiltrators. I mean the difference of worse weaponry and deepstrike denial for 15 points? Does that truly make them better?
Bummer that Inceptors are hot at the moment. I've got two squads with the Assault Bolters and was just in the mood to get one squad of the Plasma variant, but I guess I'll be waiting until GW decides to nerf them and people start selling them off.
Vanguard vets are one of the hero’s of the codex for me. Sure they suck with normal chapters.
In blood angels with a sanguinary priest. Also a captain or Dante if you want they are incredible.
The priest makes their attacks 5 -2 1 and the 5+ fnp as well with some storm shields makes them tanks fast as well. What beautiful dudes.
Havnt lost either of my whole 2 games I’ve run 2 10 mans lol … hugexsmalle aize
I'm going to try out vets with sanguinary priest and jump captain.
Kayvaan shrike from RG also loves a 10 pack with the inferno pistols
Rapid ingress them in, can't be shot outside of 12" and the foe has already made their move. Check mate
Then they have 12" of movement and a charge, so can easily get into melta and 2+ charge range, and could easily melt a multi wound target with the pistols then charge something else with 40 S5 attacks
And then they disappear and do it again.
@@william9557 certainly an incredible play too, the best if you are happy with the one unique character.
Company heroes would bice, if you could attach a unit to them,that can be attached to it's attached captain. Also, why can't they be used with Ragnar Blackmane who is a captain???
Are you eating your words yet on the Company Heroes? Literally the only of the new units seeing competitive play and almost winning the World Championships.
Heavy Interssors ought to be higher imho
For reals
They tough, can shoot well, S5 ap1 and 30" is dope, assault and heavy is good, T6 W3 is just so annoying to push through
I think it's a little weird that it's called a storm bolter but shoots just as much as the standard bolter I think it would be better at 3 shots and rapid fire 1
Storm bolter has an extra rapid fire (2)?
But definitely should be 3 standard shots.
BUT that would make a termie squad, with a librarian in firestorm lethal. They're already shooting 24 S5 hits at deepstrike range, imagine 30!
@william9557 i agree with you there but outside of rapid fire a 10 man intercessor squad puts out the same numbers the only real advantage the terminators have is their ability to deepstrike into rapid fire range then charge they put out low numbers with just the storm bolters and require the heavy weapons to get decent shooting in outside half
I like the frag and crak launchers I wish they put out some better numbers outside half range I feel forced to deep strike them any time I use them or I'm just missing out on the potential charge and double shooting
@@william9557 also how they get s5 shooting?
The thing is assault intercessors get one plasma but van vets get many
Can’t you pair eliminators with las fusil with librarian in Phobos armor then unit can’t be target outside of 12 so if park them in elevated spot then can remain stationary and hitting on 2 for stationary with debating wound. Or could go with sniper rifle means a turn or 2 before can be targeted and remove opponent leaders. Just a thought curious to your thoughts
It's just very expensive for what it does and thus becomes underwhelming. Id rather the snipers either allow 3 more models (or just make it a minimum of 5 like scouts) or give them 12" no shoot without the librarian.
Charge them (Inceptors) and only take pistol damage - those Assault Bolters / Plasma Exterminators are their Pistols.
It's quite funny how malicious and roundabout was gw's way to not give tacticals any special ability. Just remove basic option to take them as five man squad (which everyone have) and make this their special.
Yeah, but GW is definitely not killing the FIrstborn. They even said so (before cutting nearly all their units)... also, please don't try to use Rhinos and Razorbacks, dear players. Nobody is allowed into those. Go and play with our new grav tanks based on 90s kids toys with tons of guns attached.
@@erih2934 come on, the rhino really isn't that special looks-wise either 😅
@@johannestafelmaier616naaaaah.... But it's a classic! Been with the community for decades! And actually looks relatively practical. I'd honestly be happy if they just upsized it to a better scale - I'm taking too many Land Raiders because I want tracks and they are the only ones that look propa next to primaris.
@@johannestafelmaier616 tastes differ, but the rhino is a classical design of 40k used in several different armies and both settings (40k and hh). is it the hottest shit? no, not at all XD still its an iconic look.
there is a reason why the tie-fighter and x-wing as well as the millenium falcon are the most recognised star wars vehicles and all that followed tried to mimic them (except for early prequels - which pretty much failed at leaving a lasting impression).
the new vehicles stand out from the iconic look. primaris might be utterly bland and boring but they still feel mostly like space marines. the cheap el camino truck-ripoff doesn't :)
@@johannestafelmaier616it looks like a real world APC
Sternguard are in 17th because of the first born helmet.
Reivers really need new guns or like idk how would a 6” deep strike or ignore anti-deep strike stuff? Or something like forcing an enemy squad to move whether by like fear or grappling launchering them towards the squad. Or like how there’s anti vehicle, anti psyker, etc maybe anti-scout?
Is Precision really that useless or is it only because their guns are too weak to matter when focused on most characters?
@@AgoristDryad Weak guns and melee. All their stuff is D1 and at most -1AP
@@DefaultProphet ap1 on the dumb pistols and not the bolter which are also lacking assault.
It would be good to know the rules for a. Breacher squad. in a what if 40k list.
Azrael, a Lieutenant, and 10 assault intercessors in a landraider redeemer beg to differ with being 14th.
I guess GW agreed with the rankings, given the points nerfs/buffs in MFM ^^;
is it just me or is "weak vs. melee" just the WH40k version of Magic's "dies to removal"?
Inceptors can’t deep strike 12 inches within infiltrators correct? An opponent I played against said they could
No, the Infiltrators rule wins out there
You are correct. They are allowed to come within 3" during reinforcement phase but something says ALL things can't drop in during reinforcement unless outside of 12". Can't trumps can.
I don't see how tac marines are 25th. They have fantastic shooting versatility.
I love the videos and I mean this in the kindest way possible but turning one of these videos always makes me realize that i have more important things to do 😂
I'm a little disappointed at how much Jump Assault Intercessors are better than regular Assault Intercessors. It's a five point difference for a squad of five and you get to FLY and run some plasma pistols? Geez. did I get that right about the plasma pistols?
I think suppressor squads don't get enough credit. They're really strong with 3 shots each and 48 inches of range.
Assault intercessors are complete trash. They always die and their chain swords don't really do any damage at all.
Desoliation squad aged like fine milk 😂