Why are SO MANY People Running this Space Marine Army List? Ultramarines Vanguard Spearhead Review
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- Let's talk about the rise of the Ultramarines Vanguard Spearhead in competitive Space Marine play...
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0:00 Intro
0:32 Vanguard Ultramarines
2:26 World Championships List
3:00 Infiltrating Calgar and Aggressors
5:39 Teleporting Centurions
8:48 Other Support
9:50 Three More Army Lists
13:32 Outro 
Игры
I've never lost more Guard in a single Turn than I did facing a list nearly identical to this lol
Why were your guard being attacked by Ultramarines 😥. Were they dirty heretics?
@@hmmm348 No doubt they had it coming
@@hmmm348those were not ultramarines. They were Alpha Legion!
@@hmmm348 Training Simulation
UM taking notes from the Blood Ravens I see
Makes me miss the days when castellan creed could hide an imperial knight behind a stop sign.
To be fair to the space marines, they have always had access to limited teleportation technology for bringing heavy infantry straight into the fight.
@@alltatyeah but somehow THOSE models didn’t make it into these lists
Auspex: *Creates a well rounded video explaining the best lists to run for space marines*
Me, a Salamanders enjoyer: "So anyways I started burning" *runs list of 90%+ flame and melta units*
As vulkan intended brother.
And keeping Brayarth was too much for GW.
I mean, I'm an Ultramarines main since 2nd edition, but Firestorm just *calls* to me. Lots and lots of flamers is my next big project
Ah, I see a man of extraordinary culture... Keep those fires burning, brother, keep 'em burning. 🔥
My salamander list isn't all too different. 6x aggressors as well, just that they're obviously using flamestorm gauntlets and are being led by a gravis captain.
6x eradicators with a biologis for Forged in Battle and 6x inceptors (instead of 9) for secondary shenanigans
Instead of scouts i have infiltrators, but scouts work too
Other than that more salamander-esque units like infernus marines with He'Stan, a redeemer and so on
Remember brother, your list doesn't have to be *the* best list possible, but the best list for your playstyle and personal fun
I won a small tourney using a similar list a couple months ago. Though I used 6 eradicators instead of the centurions - can confirm it still works really well with eradicators
Its good to see the Raven Guard detatchment finally be top tier... Although it was a bit of a monkey's paw I suppose.
Except that it doesn't actually do much for Raven Guard style units, does it?
It doesn't do much for Shrike unfortunately. Raven Guard can use all the non named unity but they don't have anything like Calgar or Ventris unfortunately.@@Nevets1073
I mean Raven Guard use everything, not just phobos. The issue is that it's best under the Ultramarine banner and our only hero, Shrike, Has his assault marines for melee bombs, but not much more. Oh well, I love my stupid sexy Ravens, especially in gravis armor.@@Nevets1073
Nope it’s really sucky that Phobos armies can never have the tools to be competitive
Reivers literally have issues with anything tougher than light infantry. They look great for killing Guard, iffy against other Astartes and have issues with anything heavier. @@anthonyallmond3682
this list for me is special, not only because it is quite good rules wise. but it simply uses the only cool models that space marines have, so I am not even mad facing it.. aggressors and inceptors are peak design, and just so freaking cool. and on top of that you also have a genuine home for centurions which is just mind blowing.
I was running aggressors and iceptors as a meme in late 9th, but this list also made me buy into them..
but I figure that the balance dataslate in a week or so will hurt both aggressors and espeically inceptors.. 110 is sadly just to cheap for what they do... although I fear they wont see any play at all anymore if they get like 10-15pts higher...
I’ve been preaching vanguard spearhead for my space wolves since the edition started and all my friends said I was crazy to not use stormlance. I use Ragnar w/ a lieutenant and blade guard instead of Calgar squad. It is very agressive.
Space wolves😂
GW: It's good to see that a kit you can't buy because we won't make enough is being featured so prominently in SM lists.
GW: It's good to see that Inceptors are doing well.
GW: In a completely unrelated note, Inceptors will have their points increased from 110 for 3 to 200 for 3. We're not selling enough of our other kits that we do keep in stock.
Yup
The second something space marine does well that means it's time to double the points cost and get them back to never winning.
God, even speaking as an UM player, that whole week of drama last edition when the plasmaceptors' points went down and up in a single week was so objectively funny to watch. GW really has made powergamers of us all
I wonder if Guilliman and Cawl designed the aggressors after Calgar's normal loadout in lore? Looking at what he had and saying "that's a great idea I'll take more please"
Which is why Calgars is no longer special.
And that’s a real loss for the setting.
Primaris. Shmimaris.
@@MC-el2us Yall really find any reason you can to hate on primaris 💀
@@iron_blyat6815 I mean, the whole "Rubicon Primaris" thing is a bit moot when all the named characters get Primaris upgrades. Pretty sure there used to be an in-lore and in-universe danger of subjecting an Astartes to the Primaris upgrades, pretty sure Calgar himself nearly died from it... Sort of cheapens it and makes the whole thing seem moot when GW come along like Oprah screaming "You get a Primaris upgrade! You get a Primaris upgrade! Everyone gets a Primaris upgrade." Might as well have just made the "firstborn" models a little bit bigger and called it a day.
@@Skitch213 From a lore perspective it’s not the brightest of ideas from GW. But the process of becoming a primaris it has been refined and is now much safer than it used to be. It would also make sense if all named characters survived becuase how lame would it be if for example Shrike died from the primaris process?
But from a model standpoint HOLY MOLY it’s not even a contest, Gravis and Phobos armour is so 🤤.
But mostly I just think the primaris hate is blown out of proportion. The models are good and I am too happy in my life to hate on GW all the time.
@@iron_blyat6815 Don't get me wrong, the Primaris models are cool and I'm glad we have them so I'm not one of the Primaris haters but I do understand where a lot of the hate comes from. The new Mark X armour looks great, more modernised and angular, and like you said the new Gravis and Phobos are also cool as hell. And having the slightly larger models does make them stand out more on the tabletop. I just wish that GW didn't have to keep breaking or otherwise dismissing their own lore to get the stuff on the table. At this point, they really should've just said: "Cawl made some new improvements to armour systems and weapons. Oh, and we made the models larger. So new Space Marine models incoming." Having it all wrapped up in Primaris lore just cheapens the lore they've tried to add, if that makes sense.
This is why free wargear is a bad idea. Agressors are going to get hit again, and the Flamestorm gauntlets will suffer as a result. 😢
As someone who is currently putting together two boxes of Centurions, I approve.
Tbf it's nice to see the Ultras having a bit of punch. As the ones who literally wrote the book, they should have some tasty options. But expect them to be a bit nerfed in the balance dataslate, likely just in time for the DA to get a major boost with the release of their codex supplement 😆
Marenius Calgar + Uriel Ventris and some super heavy hitters is just such s great synergistic combination
Played against a variant of this list in my first tournament. Just had to watch as my army was dismantled piece by piece without me having the opportunity to trade back any kills. The only unit of his that I actually managed to destroy was a lone operative lieutenant.
Don't sweat it. a) This list is total cheese and will likely be burned to the ground in a coming Balance Dataslate, and b) Everyone's first tournament has at least one of these experiences.
That doesn’t sound fun.
Feels weird being this early, looks like a fun list
Hoping the next dataslate brings nerfs to guaranteed CP farmers across the board. They are practically mandatory to bring across the board and if your faction doesn’t have one then it just feels bad
Cp farming in general is just really rough going. It creates this uphill slog for the other guy and means he has to account for a free strat every turn (not just battle tactic on a specific unit).
If you have a way to farm cp it is almost always useful since strats are so integral. Unlike something like a character buff were you have to keep the character engaged and alive to make it worthwhile. Calgar can just sit in the back and you still get a massive buff, unlike helbreckt or dante who need to be active to be worthwhile.
The best (worst for enemy) is to use a calgar or azreal and then taking both a callidus AND a character with the shadow war veteran enhancement to increase CP by 2 for a single Strat or 2 strats by 1 CP each. Completely destroys the CP economy for the game
Yeah, I feel like not enough people are complaining about this because most of the best armies actively use them. Its widespread enough there are only SOME losers, not a LOT of losers, which is what creates outcry.
@@JohnnymarzoBjorn the Fell Handed can do this too
Instead of wishing for nerfs we should wish for buffs that every race a cp farm character model. Wishing for nerfs is basically just sour grapes. But we also need every army to play differently or you just have different colored models all playing as SM.
Currently at the notts gt with my version. Can agree its an amazing list. Played a canoptek court game one and the cents were picking up ten immortals plus the attached characters each turn...
I played my marines against the vanguard list but ended up deleting the guy 20:0 since he wasn't very familiar with it. People often play tournament lists while being unfamiliar with them and end up loosing badly
And magic happens when they are faced with something that is considered as "unconventional" hehehe
@@ancientmariner9460 Yeah 😅 I mean the dude deestruck his centurions into his deployment zone... Then I deleted them with hellblasters with 5+ sustained and lethal that I teleported with a libby dread
Oh I would love to see the look on his face when you've dealth with those "overpowered" centurions 😆
@@ancientmariner9460 Dude was flabbergasted
Lol! I came up with this same strat last year, in the only 10th Ed game I've played! Marneus pwnd, Drukhari died, all was well.
I love how everyone complains the second another army does well, but is furious if anyone complains about their army doing well and will say shit like "it's how the army was designed, pick a different army of you don't like yours." Instead of demanding nerfs constantly and ruining the game for everyone, just let them get each army to a point where they have powerful builds and multiple viable starts. Not just kill the army the second they get top 3 in a tournament. No wonder GW doesn't know how to maintain the actual game, everyone want their army to be the only good army at all times. Ultramarines are almost always a low-mid tier army, and now that they got second place in a tournament this many people are calling for nerfs? Fuck off.
Exactly, people seem to have forgotten how UMs have spent the last two editions (even with a bunch of fluffy tactical gimmicks and CP tricks) being decidedly mid.
Had a match against a list similar to List no.3 where I use World Eaters. I decided to trade Angron and a berzerker brick (alongside a rhino & the MoE leading it) for 2 Forgefiends and a Daemon Prince (on foot). Suffice to say, having the Forgefiends (even the shitty WE version) blast the Aggressor brick on turn 1 and my Daemon prince giving 4+ invul. aura is what win the game. Can't imagine having Angron on the list to just get blasted by the Centurion and Eradicators.
Inceptors and perhaps Eradicators too will go up in their points cost. Sadly this is the way with GW. They see one list that is good and nerf the crap out of the units in that list. Desolation squad was pretty OP, but I hear people say they're not next to useless. I never used them myself, but I have used Eradicators and Inceptors. Hopefully GW doesn't make them completely obsolete raising their points too much.
I remember watching John Lennon brainstorm this strategy in a RUclips video last summer. He was questioning whether Centurion Devastators would work. I don't always find competitive play interesting, but I really admired his innovation at the time. Amazing that it got this far, good for him!
Incroyable.
Likely to see Inceptors take a points hike, right now they are the de-facto unit you take in marines due to the rather absurd ability to ignore standard zoning, meaning they can come down and nuke whatever they feel like at a moments notice while the centurions are riding purely on the back of Uriel here, I would even say that they aren't an issue in the list; just the biggest baddest infantry unit you can give deep strike to which even outside of Vanguard is pretty damn beastly.
Calgar and the Aggressors do what you would expect and are a rather interesting issue for opponents to handle. But not unsurmountable. Similarly the Centurions are painful but they are more vulnerable to getting zoned out, even with deep strike helping a more aggressive force could block a lot of places in the mid field and back-line: those wide bases make zoning them quite a lot easier.
The stars of the nonsense however are the inceptors who can drop down within 3" thus making it impossible to fully block them UNLESS you have units like Infiltrators. No matter what you put where, you are going to lose units and I feel their actual damage is in the fact they drop in and delete any backline holding avenues.
I could see them taking a STEEP hike to 150 points as even before their drop, they were as near auto-take as Callidus Assassins are.
I have been using 5he markets calor apothecary blade driven deep and aggressors since the codex came out
Heya i dont know if you play kill team but its something ive been wanting to get into but whenever i look at the tutorials i dont really understand is there any youd recommend or and chance youd consider doing a tutorial yourself as i find your format useful and easy to understand
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only Objektiv Control.
I think what's thrown people out of bonk with army building is all of the new rules tweaks. Things like the _Leader_ and _Bodyguard_ interactions with them adopting each other's passive abilities, or ballistic skill being shown _unmodified_ in the weapon stat line, or Strength/Toughness chart giving much more value to a single point of increase or decrease now (strength 11 rolls the same to wound as strength 19 against toughness 10, as the most extreme example).
A great example of this is the CSM Exalted Champion. Largely overlooked at the start due to his +1 to hit feeling less useful compared to, say, the Master of Possession's FnP. But when people spotted it wasn't just +1 to combat, but also shooting, and that he benefited from the Chosen's Marauder ability, while also granting them the coveted +1 on combi-weapons - it's been a phenomenal synergy. But crucially, it was one that flew under the radar until around December when it started to pick up.
I think the other thing is that the vast, _vast_ majority of people don't do the maths on the armies. They just look up or ask about "what the best is" and copy that. If you look up faction subreddits you'll see far more posts asking about what's best versus posts about points calculations.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to my hovel to finish the sums on how effectively two Heldrakes would be at killing Mortarion in close combat while hitting and wounding on a 2+ with Devastating Wounds...
Sure, s19 and s11 hit t10 the same
But s19 hits t6 t7 t8 and t9 better than s11 does
Thats Gravis units
Wraithguard
Neurotyrant or tyrant guard
Primarchs and rhinos
So that point you made was pointless
@scolack123
I think you deliberately ignored the point I was making. The significance of that statistic is to show that it isn't worth chasing multiple strength point increases that units sometimes offer if it doesn't affect the to wound roll like it did in previous editions.
For example, say you ran the Exalted Champion with the Mark of Khorne and gave him the Talisman of Burning Blood. This adds +1 strength (and +1 attack) to him at base in combat. That makes his Exalted Weapon s6.
But if you use a Dark Pact, you get D3 strength instead, plus access to his Aspire to Glory ability which adds a further D3 strength. At an average of +4 strength, he's still only wounding on 3+ against toughness 5 (Votann Warriors, Ork Boyz), which he already got without the Dark Pact. Unless you really needs the additional attacks, it might not be worth taking the enhancement in the first place at 20 points because the bonus strength adds little value to him on its own in this scenario.
In the old rules, any additional strength over the toughness also added +1 to the to wound roll too. In that case 2D3 would be incredible against more levels of toughness.
Well inceptors are going up in points
This is exactly why the new detachment system is so moronic compared to the previous chapter specific stuff 😂
I think this detachment gets play only becuase of the secondary mission play it excelles at. Which is more of a function of how the mission deck works. GW needs to bring back other types of missions and tabling an opponent should be an automatic win for all missions.
Let's hope they don't overnerf stuff, they completely blapped desolations marines into near uselessness, at a point where general marine lists were struggling and then did little compensate elsewhere. Instead of just going x unit is popular so we will increase points they need to look WHY that unit is popular, how it is being used and with what combos. For example Aggressors themselves are a good unit but nothing exceptional, a points nerf to the unit harms more general lists or using them in other detachments, they only excel here because of Calgar really AND Blade Driven deep, so maybe adjust how Calgar works and up the points of the enhancement without killing the unit, or in Gladius because of the bolter discipline, so again make fire discipline a bit more expensive again. Probably the only unit that deserves a slight points nerf is inceptors as they work excellently on their own, but they shouldn't go up too much IMO. Hardly like loads of Marine list are dominating right left and centre, this is probably the first combos of marines that has seen above 50% win rates since the start of the edition.
I hope GW nerfs the smurfs and not the Vanguard Spearhead detachment.
I can't believe games workshop ressurected John Lennon like this
My sentiments exactly.🤣
I wonder if you could squeeze Sicarius either blade guard or assault intercessors with a lieutenant and a land raider into this list a make a blue tide. So you have two bricks start in the mid board and the get to scout the land raider or redeemer.
If sternguard were better id say them in an executioner to get that massive gun array into los. If he could lead hellblasters it’d be a very different story.
Even though i'm playing the Gladius Task Force, all of these list show that my reasoning is the same as pretty much every one else, the only thing i dont get it is why having 2 3man squad of eradicator instead of 1 6man squad
is there any date for the Deathwatch codex?date?
Iron Hands, Salamanders, Raven Guard, White Scars and Imperial Fists are just a joke to GW at this point. A grand total of 7 unique datasheets for these once proud Legions. Fewer than Second Founding Chapter Black Templars 😑
Heyyy now, the flame and melta detachment is *terrifyingly* good. Dropping in Vulkan He'stan to buff those guns further is just the icing on the cake.
The two simple fixes to this are disallowing the enhancement for infiltrate to be placed on Gravis keywords, and doing the same with Centurions and Ventris' deep strike. You wouldn't even need to change point values for most units, you'd just be putting them back to how they're designed to be used, not some nightmare-inducing jankyness.
Fun notion for my fellow SM players. If you're not at the uber elite comp play level. Play a different combo. Folks are learning to play against this over time. Throw a tactic they wont expect
So... us Raven Guards don't get anything and others get what we are known for and do it better? xD
Quick question, can I use the victrix honor guards to save for the aggressors? Or does the aggressors has to die first because it's a bodyguard unit?
This sort of thing is why i don't play "competitive". More flavour in my grandma's boiled potatoes. This just feels like a spreadsheet.
Oh how joyous and totally uncalled for that the "sub-faction" with the bestest and mostest epic hero options would be crowned the king marines. Super happy they're giving light to RG by proxy of showing how much better they are at the themed detachment than the faction it's probably or probably not based on. I hope the sons of corax could only one day hope to aspire to be like these kings of shadow warfare!!!
K on a serious note does no one have dejavu watching Smurfs do what the ravens did in 8th by alpha striking centurions? It's like the more things change the more they stay the same....cept worse because my fav factions supplement is gone in place now by a single datasheet to define them.
The worst thing I think here is that there is not a single phobos unit in the army. There are 3x5 token scouts but that's it. It kinda spits in the face of what the vanguard detachment is supposed to be. But then again, this is competitive 40k where only the rules matter and flavour is banished to the storage cupboard
I'd go and make substitutions to the UM characters, and make it Raven Guard.
About missing the mark for the phobos detachment - yeah I guess you are right. Can still be played as a themed RG phobos based army.
@@mortenbrandtjensen6470 true but without uriel ventris deepstriking the centurions or calgar buffing the aggressors to the 9s, a lot of the punch of the list goes away
@@hammer1349yeh but when an army list’s winrate starts hitting the high 60’s, maybe it’s hitting too hard.
I'm not saying I disagree, but tbf for the last two editions the Ultramarines have had rules that, while unquestionably fluffy, have been rather mid. Guilliman and Calgar notwithstanding.
People really slept on Vanguard Spearhead and were skeptical about why I decided to run Ultramarines
What is absolutely baffling to me is that these lists don’t use any vehicles when the space marine meta was previously dominated by them (and still is with the exception of these lists)
Finally some Ultra love
Because it's allow to move some of the most lethal AND slow unit of the codex around almost like turn 1 PLUS it's the list who did 2nd place at worlds?
Uriel ventris ability is kinda nuts honestly. I've been running vanguard space wolves since th3 coded dropped and haven't really gotten anywhere. After talking with trevvy of tactical tortoise I tries stormlance don't like it so I've been just going thru the Detachments currently vanguard stormlance first company I don't even have the stuff to try iron so skipped after a few more with fire I guess I try anvil or go back to champions of russ
Lost to this today at a RTT.
Can you play these named units in Raven Guard?
Only if you forgo taking Shrike. Beyond him, RG have no units and you can run whatever you like since RG nearly only exists in fluff besided a single existing datasheet.
I’m trying to build out a few of these but with recent point changes it’s making it hard, any one have recommendations on units to switch out to keep it at 2000
What's new best Ultramarines list, after recent changes?
Ive fought that list.
Ive beat it too. Tabled both players while ahead. That said, im pretty sure it was noobs that just looked up some great list, but didnt know anything about how to run it.
This is basically the anti canoptek court detachment
The problem with the Vanguard Spearhead detachment is that it buffs non-phobos units too much and does little for the actual phobos units. You should be encouraged to field lots of phobos units, but instead it basically turns a lot of existing Space Marine stuff *into* phobos units.
Calgar is ridiculous, not just for what he does, but for the huge list of units he can lead. Especially when you compare him to other Chapter Masters.
I feel like Centurions will be nerfed for this detachment by them rewording the stratagem that lets them go back into reserves.
They could also, I feel, change Uriel's ability to make the Deep Strike not be a keyword that the target unit retains after it deploys the first time.
Phobos units suck…
@@lohikaarmeherra-1753and they shouldn’t.
look I just like the blue guys and happened to get the Vanguard boxset back in 9th, plz don't hate me I haven't even built them yet
No hate intended for the players, just the rules
oh shit, I've been brewing something very similar because movement shenanigans are fun
fuck me it's gonna get nerfed isn't it
It plays the same game Eldar play. Necron “Hyper” lists gonna play the same game.
As a relatively new 40k person i hate building lists, i mean i love it, i love thinking of themes etc but then i realise money is needed. So far ive made a melee+range+shield only 1k list, a terminator list, a fly keyword list lol
GW: Here's our Raven Guard themed detachment! It's designed to buff all of your sneaky Phobos units and help you pull off cloak-and-dagger shenanigans.
Pro players: Great! I'll take it with Ultramarines characters and use the rules exclusively on loud and unsubtle heavy infantry!
I rebuttal with baneblade rogal dorn death triangle
Oh good. I can defs get lots of learning in, when I finish my Chaos Marine Army. *prepares to have butt handed to her*
Isnt the vanguard the raven guard inspired option?
Yeah. Allows you to do a lot of movement shenanigans. Also having Stealthy is really nice too.
Yea, it is.
Unsurprising that Ultramarines would be the best at it then... as Corax was able to defeat Guilliman use sneaky tactics with unorthodox units, once. After Corax taught Guilliman that lesson then Guilliman never needed another one & Corax never again defeated Guilliman in any strategic wargames.
@@nationalsocialism3504 maybe but did he win by using Corax's tactics? Thought he just knew how corax would strike and countered it.
@lilpreacjerboy1 Guilliman incorporated Corax tactics where they would be effective... Corax wasn't bad at what he did just fairly limited. So Guilliman was able to encompass what worked for Corax but as a small part within a greater whole. Corax definitely won in their first exchange but Corax also agreed that he would never win again against Guilliman... Guilliman could do everything that Corax could do but Corax couldn't do what Guilliman did.
Me just wanting my primarch the space marines that have them not using them on the table 😢😢
Are the Company Heroes just the 4 models? I.e. Without the Captain?
my understanding is that it is a squad of 4 and comes with a captain but you dont need to use him, you could opt for a chapter master instead. BUT, it must be on the board as a squad of 5 in order to be legal, whether thats a captain or whatever.. if that makes sense?
I have killed this list or multiple like it by about turn 3, Playing iron storm spearhead ultramarines. This list flexible but relies on weight of weak shots and limited range. Anything withe multiple armored vehicles will clear this list very fast.
Not sure what version this comes from, but doesn't that add to over 2k points?
I was looking to do this build a few months ago but i dont like blueberries or 9th
Nice, but I'll stick with ironstorm Ultramarines.
I'm a simple man. I see Centurions, I like.
To each their own. I’m already tired of the redundancy of the Space Marine power levels.
It’s like super saiian power levels. First you got Space Marines: the ultimate badass, and then terminators, the ultimate badass to the second power, but wait, there’s centurions, and even better terminator than the terminators, and if that’s not enough there’s adeptus custodes (which I think shouldn’t even exist as a viable faction given their narrative scarcity) which are super-uber-extra badasses.
11th edition will see the release of even tougher marines with more dakka and only 4” of movement making dreadnoughts feel bad.
Meanwhile Phobos get relegated to mortal duties, babysitting guardsmen while their overpowered armor brothers get to have all the fun.
@@AgoristDryad idk, i like everything you mentioned
Well tbh I can see the following happening this month
- inceptors huge points hike or ability nerf 3 inches Is outrageous given cost and damage output
- aggressors being nerfed this month as they are an auto include every list there is
- calgar bodyguard needs fixing. And G-man needs making more relevant. ATM he isn't In a single list and Calgar is in every single one
Uriel Ventris points hike as his ability is mental.
Tbh this list will be irrelevant soon. Be good because the meta is so fucking boring and it's just the same models on repeat
Copium
looking at Nottingham super major results, it feels like it's not that strong, no Adeptuz Astartes in top 25
- John Lennon
Hopefully inceptors and ultra characters go up in points and other interal things get balanced
Wait SM have a good build? I see a nerf incoming.
I think GW should bring back variable points costs for weapons on units - should be paying a premium for all those lascannons and missile launchers on centurions. 10th edition feels like a mess in my opinion - the guerrilla warfare/ polymorphine/ similar rules make no logical sense, but they warp the game
Great now marines can GSC
This is why I hate the 40K Competitive scene and meta. For Space Marines, it's basically always this list you'll see. Admech, it's all Skitarii with their new detachment. Necrons, all just Crypteks. Seems like GW could axe 90% of their model range and it wouldn't affect the tournament scene at all.
The problem with 40K and why I stopped playing it is this type of bullshit you get when you add characters to units that completely change the way the unit works. Most units by themselves are balanced and fun to play, but as soon as you start adding these wombo combo characters and create these blobs of stacked synergies, the game becomes so unpleasant to play.
When will we talk about 120 model strong gsc acolythe + neophite lists? Dropping 4d6+12 s12 ap-2 d2 blast demo charge on you from 3 inches with rerolls for 170pt with a chance to spawn back again isnt fun either. I dont see auspex crying about it. Problem is that almost every faction has a combo that is so broken you cant do anything about it.
I played a Tempestus Scions list and my opponent dubbed them the “zombie army” for my use of the reinforcements strategem.
I think special characters need to be locked to their respective intended chapter detachment rules. This seems ridiculously OP
the whole point is that detachment rules ARENT chapter-specific. to prevent your colour scheme from getting in the way of how you play
@@echo_ironside8006 but then you get situations like this where people are teleporting a unit of devastator centurions around the board the whole game.
@@sendoprey nothing teleports centurions? And even if they did, why is that a bad thing?
Edit: they can teleport centurions lol
Why ? Because of being unable to think on their own and blindly follow the meta, which has been problem since invention competetive gameplay.
They should really enforce artificial restrictions for tournaments but of course those geniuses won't do that, instead there's gonna be nerfs and normal people gonna get F in the A, as always.
Just curious, what do you mean by "artificial restrictions"?
@@silverblack110 I would start by limiting number of named characters to just one per army, as they always should be, add to that unit limitation to just one of a kind, except for battleline units or even maybe - like it used to be years ago - a requirement to take 3 units classified as troops, in this case units with battleline keyword. It would be atleast something and it would make armies somewhat more "climatic" (or lore-like) as we used to call it. I mean, the possibilities are there.
Honestly an easy fix without overnerfing Calgar would be to make it so he can't bring his Guards if he joins a unit. So he has to leave them behind and the unit he's joining becomes his bodyguard.
Two dudes protecting a VIP? Makes sense. Two dudes protecting the VIP, plus his entire fucking entourage. No, doesn't make any sense.
Marneus Calgar + Uriel + Callidus: Aren't those three Epic Heroes? What about the rule that you can only have ONE Epic Hero? What am I missing here?
You can only have one of that specific Epic Hero. So you can only have one Marneus Calgar, but you can have three Primaris Captains. World Eaters can run Angron and Kharn, but not three Kharns or three Angrons.
I think a lot of these shenanigans would be quite neatly curtailed if you were restricted to only having one epic hero period. The exception being ones you can ally such as assassins as that is their whole purpose. You'll then have to pick between ventris and calgar, also meaning that sub-factions that only have one named character don't get shafted
@@hammer1349 Uno I kinda like this idea. A little bit feels bad but makes sense
@@arejaysii9311 yeah
Just a recommendation, you should talk about GWs broken queue system. It needs attention so GWs PR wakes up and notices they have a problem…
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More interested in "Why are SO MANY People Running a Space Marine Army" 🤣
First to comment, doing grear job sir
Seems we can put Ultramaven Guard above Aeldari in the winrates now then, right? Which means it needs to be "nerfed into the ground!" Right? xD
Most of the space marine characters are not only really good but also stupid cheap, typically 50 - 80pts for a really good buffing unit is just stupid cheap.
More special characters. The game has really moved away from doing well with homebrewed chapters. Sad.
How are people having this much success with aggressors? They utterly suck for me.
Take the bolt option with at least a apothecary for lethal hits rerolls from oath + twin linked for wounds
@@lukeharris2853 Yeah I do that. Its been a staple in my lists. They just get blown away after doing piddly damage. Fishing for 6s is a fools errand.
They just do 3 lethal hits plus the twin linked reroll the dmg output with the bolters isn't that much unless you're using the gladius detachment. I think the unit that really makes the difference here are the centurions.
@@XealotCoils What are you shooting at? Fishing for 6s for lethal hits in an average of 18 shots with blast and 18 shots with twin-linked with full rerolls from oath is not that crazy. Aggressors are great, you might be missing something else in game.
@@XealotCoils Imagine thinking your opinion is valid, when you're disagreeing with your betters who are placing 1st, 2nd, and 3rd at major tournaments.
I know it won’t happen but I hope Ultramarines get nerfed hard.
I’m so sick of seeing “space marine” lists in tournament results and then I open the list and it’s “Ultramarines - Vanguard Spearhead”. Don’t nerf the detachment, nerf the fucking blue boys.
I cant wait for the day when these stupid centurions get sent to legends
Meta chase, the cancer of 40k.
So many of those are bad models. Imagine letting your taste be secondary to winning on the TT.
It’s a shame that the best version of this detachment is with pesky Smurfs.
10 Deathwing knights infiltrated up would like to have a word!
@@william9557 I agree lol but hero support seems to be best with the Smurfs for this detachment with calgar and aggressors
This is a dumb list (lore wise). I hate it.
You're still coping about how wrong you were about Company Heroes.
What is the big hoo-ha about company heroes anyway? I feel like they aren't all that great and and being forced to have a captain with them seems like a tax
@@hammer1349 Considering you're almost always taking a captain or equivalent for a free strat and that most of them don't actually give a buff to their unit, needing a captain for company heroes isn't that big a tax. They have a pretty solid profile at -1 to wound, T4 4w 3+, and can be good at holding objectives with their banner. They're great at bubblewrapping a hero you want to keep alive whilst also bringing some damage and utility, and are not overly expensive for doing so either.
Crazy john lennon came back from the grave just to win a 40k tourney