I made a sinew backed bow and when and when I brace it one limb is strong than the other but when I put the bow on my lap and push the strong limb towards the weaker limb the tiller is perfect . I tried to tiller it even and when I take wood of the stronger side the weaker limb gets worst the weirdest rhing i ever seen. .Still haven't shot a white tail yet
This is gold! this is alot of what I still struggle to understand like dif tillers for dif profiles. thankyou for this. always enjoy ur content Dan keep em coming!
@@DanSantanaBows absolutely! I've been busy but I have quite a few yew trees scoped out! also BL. I been trying to make a decent work bench and shave horse. as soon as I do that I'll be back to more bow making
I love how your videos are both beautifully edited and relaxing to watch, and pack with so much very well organized and explained information! I have made my first bow in the past month and will use this info in making my second!
@@DanSantanaBows No, I love the diagrams and drawings you inserted... even love the hand drawn style.. gives it a great look and lots of good visual info.
thats exactly how its done. Ive recently build a bow for a cutomer which was send back to me cause - handshock, bad tiller. Although I explained him the tiller a few times even while the build of the bow. This bow had a lightly reflex and a deflex limb so in brace height of course it looked weird. But in full draw 28" tiller (to me) was perfect. Another indeed were the growth rings which came out exactly the same on both limbs - I know that doesnt always work but if the tiller is good in full draw and the rings look even thats a good indeed. but the safest point for me was that there were no compression cracks at all. Well I might send him this video link, thank you San!
Thanks man those character bows with weird brace shapes are hard to accept but sometimes it just has to be like that. Forcing a perfect braced shape will just throw off the full draw
@@DanSantanaBows I'll try to post my progress on P.A. since the stave is not very staight forword to work with, it's common hornbeam and it has some interesting ridges all along the back 😅
There is a lot of information on that video that is so hard to put together. Also a lot of good bowyers do and know those things out of intuition but can’t put it into words in a clear way like you did!! This video will speed up the development of “ good” intuition in beginner bowyers! Fantastic job !
Excellent work Dan! You do a great service to all Bowyers of the past by passing on the finer points of the craft. If the first bowyers could see that thousands of years on, iterations their invention are still being created (especially amongst all the technological advancements of today's World) I'm sure they would be both grateful and proud (and amazed) to see your videos. Thank You!
Gee, thanks Opts! I try to do right by em but I bet they would scratch their head at the need to explain a lot of this stuff, like talking about how to walk
Honestly the best person on youtube in general. The amount of knowledge and how it's displayed is incomparable. Plus your cousins music is chill. So thank you to the both of you.
Awesome! those little ones are a ton of fun. If you like snapshooting it takes off so much pressure to find long staves and tiller them all the way to full draw
I found all of your videos so valuable and so thoughtfully created that I’ve watched every single one in less then 48 hours. You are without a doubt meant to make bows…. like its in your dna. Thank you so much for the knowledge and i cant wait for the next instalments! Sam
All i would love to say is that you sir are a true bowyer dedicated to the art of archery more than i would! Your pointers always motivate me to go find any wood and tree i could find outdoors! That voice is enough to calm me in the middle of the night. Truly you deserve more subscribers as you've earned mine.
I love how artistic and serene your videos are. I'll probably never make a bow myself, but I love to shoot and your videos give me a deeper appreciation for the physics and craft.
I love your drawings, font and handwriting in your unique style ,a little bit similar with steampunk:))) I'm just waiting for free days to go back to my character white oak bow, your video is very helpful, thanks 🙏🙏🙏 ....and every time I catch myself thinking that I would present the information in the same way. I love clear organization.
@@DanSantanaBows Hello dear Dan !:))) Once you said, that I can ask you to give an advice... so, I returned to my white oak character stave. It's very difficult to tiller him... would you please watch my short video and say, what to do? 🙏 ruclips.net/video/dYmiNRPFgJc/видео.html
If you rough out the bow and then let it dry for a week to ten days then you can make a much more powerful bow. See the quick drying tutorial for details
Siyo Unali'i! Sgi for this awesome contribution to Primitive archery. I appreciate what you are doing and the way you present it. What region of the world are you in? Donadagohvi
For me 70% of my tillering happens before I bend the bow, I spend a long time using my hands to feel out and perfect the tapers as best I can. When I do finally bend the bow it's usually close to finished already, the less you bend it while you tiller the less chance of set.
I feel the same way. I think most bowyers progress towards pre-tillering more and more as they get more skilled. There’s no tool like feeling the taper with your fingers
@@DanSantanaBows for me it was more intuitive than using my eyes because I started without a tillering tree. The hands are the ultimate tool and are vastly underused.
In character bows, how do you follow the fiber in the front profile? If you use a drawknife for rough shaping, you'll inevitably cut trough fibers. Do you shape the bow by splitting with a dull tool or?
re-watching this... Interesting comment about the tillering "gizmo"... it gives a circular bend rather than an elliptical. So on a board bow design with a non bending handle glued on, I probably should not be using a Gizmo to tiller check (at least not as I approach final tiller - maybe just initial roughing in of tiller)?
I haven’t gotten around to it yet but I’ll upload them later today. The website has been giving me a hard time with some technical issues lately. I think they’re finally settled, fingers crossed
Hey Dan, i appreciate your videos a great deal! I am following your board bow tutorial at the moment and I would like to make it asymmetrical but I don’t know how that plays in to the tillering, fx. does one limb need to be stiffer than the other? Do you know of any videos, (yours or others) covering going into this topic?
Excellent video Dan! I take it that scale works well for you? I'm looking to get one to get more precise with my draw weights (currently im hanging physical weights and measuring the draw 😂😂) - Ive noticed online some people mention that the style you have is annoying due to its lack of a peak weight reading. Do you find it to be adequate?
I think it’s fine for me. I don’t sing praise for any scales though. I’ve seen many other bowyers with similar ones like Weylin and Corey Hawk. The type that archers use that take a peak measurement seem to me better for measuring the draw weight of a finished bow. Tillering with repeated pulling over many bows calls for a more robust scale. personally I like seeing the weight in real time and don’t want any “smart” features that clunk up the user experience and make tillering take longer
The lower the brace height the better the performance, because your power stroke is bigger. But as you lower it you start to get wrist slap and the bow needs a more delicately spined arrow. Too high a brace height can be stressful for a wooden bow and looks goofy. In practice try to lower it as much as you can while still being comfortable with the shooting characteristics. If arrow clearance is poor and wrist slap is bad try raising it a bit
I found that a tillering stick helps me get the bend under control and find brace height. Do you recommend to stop using the tillering stick once brace height is attained, and only go to pulling the bow on a tillering tree after that?
@@DanSantanaBows FOR SOME REASON THE PDF NOTES FOR TILLERING CAN'T BE DOWNLOADED FROM YOUR WEBSITE, I HAVE TRIED TO DOWNLOAD FROM DIFFERENT DEVICES STILL NOT WORKING.
Wouldn't an elliptical tiller be the best for every design seeings how every part of the bow bends on a perfect horizon? If u look at most composite bows and even old selfbows all of them are elliptical tiller.
Technically true, a circle is a case of an ellipse. There is only a tiny subset of bows that call for a literal circular tiller. Most bows will be elliptical. Some more circular than others on the spectrum but still an elliptical shape
A true expert. Master bowyer, craftsman, and teacher. Best explanation I’ve heard!
Thanks again, you’re always too kind!
I made a sinew backed bow and when and when I brace it one limb is strong than the other but when I put the bow on my lap and push the strong limb towards the weaker limb the tiller is perfect . I tried to tiller it even and when I take wood of the stronger side the weaker limb gets worst the weirdest rhing i ever seen. .Still haven't shot a white tail yet
This is gold! this is alot of what I still struggle to understand like dif tillers for dif profiles. thankyou for this. always enjoy ur content Dan keep em coming!
thanks man, can I visit soon? I have some stuff for ya
@@DanSantanaBows absolutely! I've been busy but I have quite a few yew trees scoped out! also BL. I been trying to make a decent work bench and shave horse. as soon as I do that I'll be back to more bow making
I love how your videos are both beautifully edited and relaxing to watch, and pack with so much very well organized and explained information! I have made my first bow in the past month and will use this info in making my second!
Thanks Glenn, hope it helps and all the diagrams didn’t get too boring
@@DanSantanaBows No, I love the diagrams and drawings you inserted... even love the hand drawn style.. gives it a great look and lots of good visual info.
thats exactly how its done. Ive recently build a bow for a cutomer which was send back to me cause - handshock, bad tiller. Although I explained him the tiller a few times even while the build of the bow. This bow had a lightly reflex and a deflex limb so in brace height of course it looked weird. But in full draw 28" tiller (to me) was perfect. Another indeed were the growth rings which came out exactly the same on both limbs - I know that doesnt always work but if the tiller is good in full draw and the rings look even thats a good indeed. but the safest point for me was that there were no compression cracks at all. Well I might send him this video link, thank you San!
Thanks man those character bows with weird brace shapes are hard to accept but sometimes it just has to be like that. Forcing a perfect braced shape will just throw off the full draw
love this video! For sure it will come in handy while I tiller my next few bows.
Good luck! Let me know if you need a tiller check
@@DanSantanaBows I'll try to post my progress on P.A. since the stave is not very staight forword to work with, it's common hornbeam and it has some interesting ridges all along the back 😅
There is a lot of information on that video that is so hard to put together. Also a lot of good bowyers do and know those things out of intuition but can’t put it into words in a clear way like you did!!
This video will speed up the development of “ good” intuition in beginner bowyers!
Fantastic job !
Thanks Omar, I hope so!
Greatly explained and organized, excellent teaching material!
Thanks Aurora, hope it helps!
Excellent work Dan! You do a great service to all Bowyers of the past by passing on the finer points of the craft.
If the first bowyers could see that thousands of years on, iterations their invention are still being created (especially amongst all the technological advancements of today's World)
I'm sure they would be both grateful and proud (and amazed) to see your videos.
Thank You!
Gee, thanks Opts! I try to do right by em but I bet they would scratch their head at the need to explain a lot of this stuff, like talking about how to walk
Honestly the best person on youtube in general. The amount of knowledge and how it's displayed is incomparable. Plus your cousins music is chill. So thank you to the both of you.
I've been tillering a 40" bow today. 👍
Awesome! those little ones are a ton of fun. If you like snapshooting it takes off so much pressure to find long staves and tiller them all the way to full draw
@@DanSantanaBows Great content and great guitar.
Great explanations. Thanks
@@jscottstockton Thank you Scott!
Thank you for making this video. I think I will try a character stave next.
Dan posted a video, its gonna be a good day 😌
Thank you very much
I found all of your videos so valuable and so thoughtfully created that I’ve watched every single one in less then 48 hours. You are without a doubt meant to make bows…. like its in your dna. Thank you so much for the knowledge and i cant wait for the next instalments!
Sam
Very inspiring! And cool hand drown pictures. Thanks for sharing.
All i would love to say is that you sir are a true bowyer dedicated to the art of archery more than i would!
Your pointers always motivate me to go find any wood and tree i could find outdoors!
That voice is enough to calm me in the middle of the night.
Truly you deserve more subscribers as you've earned mine.
Thanks Richmond!
Excellent content Dan… You do our craft a great service!
Thanks Jody same to you!
I love how artistic and serene your videos are. I'll probably never make a bow myself, but I love to shoot and your videos give me a deeper appreciation for the physics and craft.
I love your drawings, font and handwriting in your unique style ,a little bit similar with steampunk:)))
I'm just waiting for free days to go back to my character white oak bow, your video is very helpful, thanks 🙏🙏🙏
....and every time I catch myself thinking that I would present the information in the same way. I love clear organization.
Thanks Georgy!
@@DanSantanaBows
Hello dear Dan !:)))
Once you said, that I can ask you to give an advice... so, I returned to my white oak character stave. It's very difficult to tiller him... would you please watch my short video and say, what to do? 🙏
ruclips.net/video/dYmiNRPFgJc/видео.html
This was a masterpiece. The art, the info, the production, the subtle guitar. Thank you for making this
Thank you
Great tutorials, next time i will go to the woods i will try and make a survival bow with the help of what i have learned here. 😊
If you rough out the bow and then let it dry for a week to ten days then you can make a much more powerful bow. See the quick drying tutorial for details
Great video and great visuals! Thank you!
Great episode, thank you!
:)
Excelente canal. Saludos de un argentino en Irlanda.
These 20 minutes flew by!
Thank you I appreciate that!
Excelente video, muy buenas explicaciones, Saludos desde Uruguay! 🤙
It's amazing how much information I forget. Thanks for the lesson
Very informative !
A most excellent tutorial!
Siyo Unali'i! Sgi for this awesome contribution to Primitive archery. I appreciate what you are doing and the way you present it. What region of the world are you in? Donadagohvi
Excellent
Bows with character! Tiller the bow-t around the island knots
For me 70% of my tillering happens before I bend the bow, I spend a long time using my hands to feel out and perfect the tapers as best I can. When I do finally bend the bow it's usually close to finished already, the less you bend it while you tiller the less chance of set.
I feel the same way. I think most bowyers progress towards pre-tillering more and more as they get more skilled. There’s no tool like feeling the taper with your fingers
@@DanSantanaBows for me it was more intuitive than using my eyes because I started without a tillering tree. The hands are the ultimate tool and are vastly underused.
In character bows, how do you follow the fiber in the front profile? If you use a drawknife for rough shaping, you'll inevitably cut trough fibers. Do you shape the bow by splitting with a dull tool or?
re-watching this... Interesting comment about the tillering "gizmo"... it gives a circular bend rather than an elliptical. So on a board bow design with a non bending handle glued on, I probably should not be using a Gizmo to tiller check (at least not as I approach final tiller - maybe just initial roughing in of tiller)?
You can still use the gizmo, just keep in mind to make the outer limbs bend more than what it’s telling you
Awesome. Have you got pdf notes for this?
I haven’t gotten around to it yet but I’ll upload them later today. The website has been giving me a hard time with some technical issues lately. I think they’re finally settled, fingers crossed
@@DanSantanaBows
Ok no worries
Thanks 👍👍👍
@@DanSantanaBows
Hopefully your website is ok
Because can't find the link for pdf
@@E-E.ADVENTUREGEARS Here you go dansantanabows.com/tillering-explained/
@@DanSantanaBows
HI Dan Santana
For some reason the download doesn't work
I have tried it many times keep failing
Hey Dan, i appreciate your videos a great deal! I am following your board bow tutorial at the moment and I would like to make it asymmetrical but I don’t know how that plays in to the tillering, fx. does one limb need to be stiffer than the other? Do you know of any videos, (yours or others) covering going into this topic?
Excellent video Dan! I take it that scale works well for you? I'm looking to get one to get more precise with my draw weights (currently im hanging physical weights and measuring the draw 😂😂) - Ive noticed online some people mention that the style you have is annoying due to its lack of a peak weight reading. Do you find it to be adequate?
I think it’s fine for me. I don’t sing praise for any scales though. I’ve seen many other bowyers with similar ones like Weylin and Corey Hawk. The type that archers use that take a peak measurement seem to me better for measuring the draw weight of a finished bow. Tillering with repeated pulling over many bows calls for a more robust scale. personally I like seeing the weight in real time and don’t want any “smart” features that clunk up the user experience and make tillering take longer
Thank you, Another fantastic instructional video.
Can I ask. What determines brace height, and why is it generally 6 61/2 for longbows.
The lower the brace height the better the performance, because your power stroke is bigger. But as you lower it you start to get wrist slap and the bow needs a more delicately spined arrow.
Too high a brace height can be stressful for a wooden bow and looks goofy. In practice try to lower it as much as you can while still being comfortable with the shooting characteristics. If arrow clearance is poor and wrist slap is bad try raising it a bit
@@DanSantanaBows Many thanks.appreciate your time and your help.
I found that a tillering stick helps me get the bend under control and find brace height. Do you recommend to stop using the tillering stick once brace height is attained, and only go to pulling the bow on a tillering tree after that?
Amazing content! Thanks!
The PDF Notes | Tillering, Explained is not working, can you fix it?
How do you decide the target draw weight and length? I’m carving a hickory bow that is 68” long.
New subscriber here. How are you determining the shape and radius on your mold you use mainly for clamping and heat treating? Thx great channel.
Just by eye. Enough to give me a couple inches of reflex
seems the linked PDF notes download does not work anymore :(
👍
What if you make a pyramid bow with thicker inner limbs, or vice versa?
the tiller would be too stiff in the inner limbs
Oboy. I think I love you hhhh
i am making a one bow from rowan wood.
I feel like there is a Book Coming in the Future, Am I right!!?
One day!
THE BEST TUTORIAL VIDEOS 👍👍👍
MA. All the hard maples are good bow wood but the soft ones like silver, red etc need to be made extra wide for a same-weight bow
@@DanSantanaBows
THANKS HEAPS 👍👍👍
@@DanSantanaBows
FOR SOME REASON THE PDF NOTES FOR TILLERING CAN'T BE DOWNLOADED FROM YOUR WEBSITE, I HAVE TRIED TO DOWNLOAD FROM DIFFERENT DEVICES STILL NOT WORKING.
Wouldn't an elliptical tiller be the best for every design seeings how every part of the bow bends on a perfect horizon? If u look at most composite bows and even old selfbows all of them are elliptical tiller.
Technically true, a circle is a case of an ellipse. There is only a tiny subset of bows that call for a literal circular tiller. Most bows will be elliptical. Some more circular than others on the spectrum but still an elliptical shape